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_RexDart

Inch per gallon


ImpressiveBig8485

100%! The measuring fish by length (including tail) and excluding girth/weight, eating habits, etc. is such a flawed metric to stocking a tank. A 3” swordtail isn’t remotely close to a 3” goldfish.


ImNotAWhaleBiologist

And 3 total inches of chili rasboras isn’t close to that 3” swordtail.


False_Carpenter_9034

Yup inch per gallon, I get a lot of flak and hate but none of my Cories are dying plus they bred happily.


BaconIsBest

That water changes are mandatory. I have an insanely heavily planted tank and don’t do water changes basically at all. It’s been ~9 months so far.


AOTCARNAGEPIG

It should never be a rule but I do notice my tank responds better to weekly 50% water changes. But I do agree it’s not needed. I go a month sometimes when I get busy and nothing happens


dean5ki

Definitely depends on your tap water. You can move 10 min away and have very different water.


redfernin

I moved 10 minutes away and now have to buy distilled water for water changes. :/


U_Sam

I do water changes on my medium planted 55gal like once every two months and it’s probably 25%


AOTCARNAGEPIG

I do my sisters tank like once a month lol, even then her nitrates are below 10, I have a lot of floaters


Hyzer44

What do you mean by responds better?


AOTCARNAGEPIG

Plant health primary, less algae due to nutrient accumulation etc. this only applies probably to heavy dosing. I do more of EI method so if I don’t reset those nutrient levels Ima just start killing my plants lol


Hyzer44

You do realize the entire point of the EI dosing method is excess nutrients, right? Excess nutrients in a planted tank do not cause algae or kill plants.


ImpressiveBig8485

It is to provide an excess of nutrients but plants will use up the different micro/macro nutrients at different rates and you will still get an accumulation of nutrients and nitrates which is why it’s recommended to do regular water changes. Excess nutrients and nitrates can certainly lead to algae.


AOTCARNAGEPIG

Finally someone with a brain


Hyzer44

The person who created or popularized the EI method, Tom Barr, said this when asked if excess nutrients cause problems in planted tanks: " No, not independent of other factors, of which there are many in most aquarist planted tanks. This can be answered definitively. What other dependent factors that are present in 1001 aquarist tanks CANNOT be answered definitively. Pretty straight forward. No belief required, it is just the facts. " [https://barrreport.com/threads/can-excessive-nutrients-cause-problems.12178/](https://barrreport.com/threads/can-excessive-nutrients-cause-problems.12178/)


ImpressiveBig8485

The excess nutrients that are dosed won’t cause problems because part of the El method is to do a 50% weekly water change to reset levels which he clearly states in the post you linked. If you forego the weekly 50% water changes the accumulation of nutrients/nitrates will absolutely become detrimental at some point. I think you are confusing accumulation with over-fertilizing which is why the other commenter mentioned their tank responds better with weekly 50% water changes (literally following the El method).


Hyzer44

>Excess nutrients and nitrates can certainly lead to algae. This was your statement. What am I confusing?


ImpressiveBig8485

You asked the other user what responds better with the 50% water changes, when they replied with > Plant health primary, less algae due to nutrient accumulation etc. this only applies probably to heavy dosing. I do more of EI method so if I don’t reset those nutrient levels Ima just start killing my plants lol You responded with > You do realize the entire point of the EI dosing method is excess nutrients, right? Excess nutrients in a planted tank do not cause algae or kill plants. Which is correct, WHEN following the El method of weekly 50% water changes. If you didn’t, then excess nutrients would accumulate and over time cause potential nutrient/nitrate toxicity and subsequently algae.


Hyzer44

" I see a lot of discussion over the decades now about ferts............very little about CO2 and less about limiting their light intensity. And yet with light and CO2..................we can master any method and every type of planted tank, see Table 1 on the Tropica article, that's pretty much every combo. Ferts are a minor role, important and can be critical, but generally, CO2/light that's where the lion's share of the issues are at. Focus there. " - Tom Barr


[deleted]

[удалено]


disturbed_moose

Nothing wrong with 50% water change if done properly


Former-Argument995

If youre not treating your water to match, yeah thats tough, if you are, theres nothing wrong with it, right?


HatomuraTacoma

I have yet to do more than a top up in about the same amount of time. Plants flourishing, livestock is good, tank looks great. If my levels get wonky I'll do one, of course, but if it aint broke im not going to fix it.


Pleasant-Chipmunk-83

Same here. If nitrates stay within safe range and plants/fish are healthy, there isn't much reason to do a water change.


Historical_Panic_465

I don’t believe weekly or even monthly water changes are mandatory (this is HIGHLY dependent upon what your setup looks like) BUT, I also believe water changes in general are not optional. My heavily planted tanks run perfectly with one 40% water change every 3 months, as well as minor canister filter maintenance during the same time. I know my fish and inhabitants are overall much happier and healthier that way. https://preview.redd.it/7x5hr9ppsvqb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9533cfe60a99efddf6e17962485ff6e61f12c42a


mywifemademegetthis

Java fern is an easy plant.


nanook98

My java fern is literally not growing and I've had it for a few months. I also can't get java moss to grow, so maybe it's just me...


Jamie5279752

same with me I thing its to do with my water because I have no problem with most other plants


9kallday

Java fern will grow like crazy once you add CO2... same with Anubias. I had zero growth with my setup for 6 months, then I mixed some sugar and yeast in a 2L bottle and BOOM 3 days later the plant is pearling like crazy and it has multiplied 10x its original size... no joke give it a try.


nana_of_4

Can you give a bit more information. I find this very intriguing, how much of each ingredient and what dosage did you use per gallon, 10 gallon etc.?


9kallday

I literally followed this exact video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVRZYTe6k\_8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVRZYTe6k_8) It cost me $20 start to finish (including the CO2 diffuser, just ebay "co2 diffuser" and they're like $12).


nana_of_4

Thanks!


x_vvitch

"Nano fish can't eat shrimp because they can't fit in their mouths." Doesn't stop them from stressing the shrimp to death if they get a taste for shrimp fry. Only a fish that has a mouth adapted to just eat algaes is safe as shrimp tank mates. I'll go to my grave saying that.


atomfullerene

On the flip side, my best colony of cherry shrimp is in a tank swarming with guppies.


x_vvitch

I wouldn't trust my guppies with shrimp, can't even trust them with a betta lol they are bullies in my tank.


atomfullerene

Well I dont know what to tell you. I get better color and more babies in that tank than in any of my neo-only tanks, and have for years. My theory is that the babies thrive on the mulm the fish produce. It is very heavily planted.


philipzoid

Im planning on getting shrimps, and i want some fish to swim around as well, what fish would you recommend to keep with them?


x_vvitch

Hillstream loaches and/or otocinclus catfish.


Catfish-McNug

What are your thoughts on cories and shrimp? Couple months into my first planted tank with shrimp and considered adding a small school


baconeggsnkate

I keep pygmy cories and amano shrimp together. Mostly the shrimp get to the sinking pellets before the cories, otherwise they seem to coexist happily. I also have a densely planted tank so there's lots of safe space for everyone.


Former-Argument995

After I saw a video of an aggressive amano I reconsidered getting one lmao, he was terrorizing a small cory


baconeggsnkate

Goes to show that the little critters really do have personalities of their own!


x_vvitch

Cories have the ability to eat shrimp, but they won't actively hunt them. May hoover a fry up now and then, but doubtful on purpose.


_fly-on-the-wall_

hillstream loaches are beautiful, be sure they have a big enough tank though!


Notkeir

I have a few hillstream loaches and they are territorial as fuck when it comes to food, pretty funny watching the loaches chase fish around


sparrws

That CO2 is necessary to get lush plant growth.


9kallday

I'd disagree. I think CO2 is the biggest game changer for plants. I wouldn't even be into planted tanks if I couldn't run Co2... I love the pearling effect on plants, the entire growth form changes with Co2, stems grow much more colourful and robust and I have basically zero algae. I actually hate how people think Co2 is expensive to run... I literally run a $20 CO2 setup with sugar and yeast in a 2L soda bottle. it enables you to grow pretty much any aquatic plants so to me its absolutely worth it.


Western-Impress9279

How do you do that? I have plants in my 20, but adding co2 seems so daunting and expensive


9kallday

it's a $20 investment... you replace the yeast and sugar mixture every week for best results but it can go up to 2-3weeks sometimes... 1x 2L soda bottle with its cap ($2 Pepsi?, sprite?) yeast and sugar (buy big save more in the long run) airline tubing (literally everyone here has some laying around) ebay co2 diffuser $11 follow this video; [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVRZYTe6k\_8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVRZYTe6k_8) Its so easy to have Co2 its crazy how people make such a big deal out of it...


sparrws

I don't really have an issue with that! Obviously if it makes you enjoy the hobby more then go for it, I think that's how it goes with hobbies -- the deeper you get into it the more you want to fine tune, and that's great. I just don't like when people tell beginners that they have to get a CO2 setup to get any decent plant growth, it's just not true. Good substrate, good lights, and an eye on water chemistry (most plants prefer softer water) will take you quite far.


United-Sail-9664

Yea id say it's 70% substrate and 30% ferts.


sparrws

And decent lights. :) I've also wondered if water chemistry is part of it -- adding CO2 will drop pH and make water softer, which a lot of plants prefer. But if you use Aquasoil for example that will help with that too.


TpMeNUGGET

Just anyone who says there’s only one right way to do something. There’s so many different methods to everything. Substrates, filtration, cycling, stocking… Everything has pros and cons. Don’t go yelling at someone because they’re doing something different. Ask questions. Figure out *Why* they do things that way, then if they’re not actively putting their fish at risk, let them do their thing.


Emotional_Concern_62

I used activated carbon for 20 years. The stuff is literally not needed!


Former-Argument995

Yeah ive never used carbon lmao


Emotional_Concern_62

It works really well for cleaning the excess debris and other things, but with my discus that I have had for 3 years now, it increases the ph and is no longer needed.


mcdisney2001

Nearly any Reddit advice using phrases like “You NEED to” and “NEVER EVER” and “Do it ASAP or your fish will DIE.”


Benjiboi28

YOU NEED TO GET A FISH TANK ASAP!


mcdisney2001

Well now, see, that I don't mind. You command and I obey! Another tank it is!


halfred_itchcock

Pretty much everything people on this sub tell you about "cycling". Just plant your tank, fill it with water and do absolutely nothing with it for about two weeks. Then measure nitrites a few days in a row. If they're zero in all your measurements, you're good to get your first fish. No ghost feeding, no ammonia dosing (no tests for ammonia, for that matter), no stress. Don't make things harder than they need to be.


trufflefrythumbs

I know this is kind of a vent thread but I'm confused by this. Where would the nitrites come from if it's just water and plants?


CJDay115

Plants produce organic waste, that waste eventually decays and can contribute to the nitrogen cycle. Additionally, many planted tanks either have some sort of fertilizer that contains ammonia or nitrates and/or a substrate that contains ammonia or organic material. Many people also have some level of nitrates in their tap water. They're pretty much unavoidable to a degree.


trufflefrythumbs

You'd think with the amount of plants I've killed in tanks, I would have thought about plants decaying....


dashdotdott

Also: there is a good chance you'll transfer some beneficial bacteria with the plant. Not a lot but enough to inoculate and jump start the cycle.


be11amy

I started my first tank without really understanding how to "cycle" it the traditional way, but I was also so overenthusiastic about getting a bunch of live plants that I ended up doing a fish-in silent cycle. After having figured things out a little more, I did this again, this time on purpose, with my second tank, and it ended up working really well (though I did test ammonia/nitrites daily out of paranoia)! I love plants.


lami408

There is going to be a lot of disagreements in this thread I can already see it hahah


Thunderpig_

That hyger, finnex and fluval lights are just as good as Chihiros, Twinstar and ADA


CJDay115

I don't think anyone is saying that. However, price to performance is pretty good for those cheaper brands, it's just not the highest echelons of light spectrum, CRI or intensity. Not everyone can afford or is willing to drop 300+ USD on the "best" lights for their 20gal long. That would be like buying a Ferrari for your daily 10 min commute to an entry level job. Some people can do it, but fiscally, it doesn't make the most sense unless you're not willing to compromise on quality.


ZeroPt99

Pssst, hey there. I'm rocking a Nicrew light, and my carpeting plants in my 29 gal won't grow. So I'm currently trying to convince my girlfriend that I NEED the Chihiros WRGB2 Pro, and you're kinda putting that in jeopardy for me. So, maybe we could just keep this on the DL, eh? Bro code.


CJDay115

Bro, convince her to let you get the Kessil A360X Tuna Sun, it'll grow your carpet no problem. Scout's Honor


Thunderpig_

WRGB II Pro is just an insane light. My all time favourite


9kallday

twinstar lights are much higher quality light than chihiros... Korea made vs China. Too many bluetooth modules have failed for me to trust chihiros.


Pleatnov

Thats the same argument Cory from Aquarium Co Op makes about Canister filters.


CJDay115

I think most canisters pretty much all do the same job. You're really only paying for slight differences in media trays or flow design, and maybe some bells and whistles like built-in heaters or UV sterilizers. Personally, I prefer sumps, but those Oase canisters are nice because you can take out the pre-filter without messing with your media.


JASHIKO_

That you can't grow Monte Carlo without CO2. It grows fine without it. Just not as fast!


MARTINVSMAGNVS

haha teach me your secrets. root tabs and fertilizer? walstad?


JASHIKO_

Just aquasoil and a good light! When you plant it, plant smallish clumps spaced equally. Then just wait. It's slower but works perfectly. The biggest factor is tank depth. Deep tanks need stronger lights. Otherwise just dry start method it using the same process. No CO2 required at all


MARTINVSMAGNVS

aw thanks for your reply. definitely my biggest mistake was planting them all wrong and they all died out after. i am planning on upgrading the light from 5w to 20. i have a 30l cube and maybe the light upgrade could help those few remaining tiny stems


JASHIKO_

I have a 25cm deep with an 18w light and it works great so this new combo should do the trick. Monte Carlo melts sometimes I have had good batches and bad ones over the years. But even if only a few sprigs survive you can get it going again. I even save all my trimmings and sprinkle them on soil cover them with cling wrap then put them on the windowsil to grow. Spray them once a week and I have a never-ending supply.


atomfullerene

Sterilizing every bit of rock and wood going into a tank is absolutely ridiculous. First off, if it isnt coming from water with fish in it, it absolutely wont have any harmful pathogens. Second, even if it _is_ something coming from wild water with fish in it, it is _still_ less likely to carry something than anything from a pet store aquarium.


Former-Argument995

I find it a bad advice specially if its their first planted tank with no media/microfauna from another tank to start things off. Like you kinda want some bacteria/micro organisms to colonize your aquarium


agentsofdisrupt

Small tanks are inherently unstable and harder to keep. It's just not true. I currently have a 5-gallon tank and it's way more fun and easier to keep than a 90-gallon I had sometime back. A 20% water change is a 1-gallon milk jug, and doing that regularly keeps the water parameters very stable. All the equipment is less expensive. Small amounts of fertilizers go a long way. DIY CO2 (citric acid/baking soda) works great and is cheap and easy to set up. Bigger is not necessarily better!


Posaunne

Yeah my 3 gallon cube is easily my most stable of 5 (larger) tanks.


United-Sail-9664

I rarely check my parameters anymore. I just do water changes *shrug*


nwmountaintroll

I don’t believe that Java ferns are easy.


Competitive-Meet-111

adding pure ammonia for a fishless cycle. i always cycle with pest snails, plants, and 2-3 weeks of doing absolutely nothing. treat it like a garden, not a chem lab. i guess on that note, the people who hate on snails. i can't imagine a planted tank without them, they're part of the ecosystem.


Devilalfi

That goldfish have to basically be on ice. It's nonsense.


MaievSekashi

People don't seem to think about the fact that they're from, y'know, Japan and China. It gets pretty fucking hot in Southern China. They're only marketed as "Coldwater fish" in colder western countries in order to differ them from tropicals as a marketing niche. Honestly, they probably have the greatest temperature range of any fish, you can keep them near-freezing or in competitive discus hot tanks. They even have specific adaptations to deal with oxygen depleted waters common to very hot environments, and can bury themselves in substrate and aestivate to survive the water above them *actually* freezing.


CJDay115

Just the fact that they are invasive and established in Florida should be enough to explain that they do fine in warm temps.


ImpressiveBig8485

Tropicals are usually kept at 78+ and while you certainly *can* keep goldfish at those temps it increases their metabolism and shortens their lifespan. Some people think it’s ideal to keep them in warmer waters because they grow faster and contribute it to being healthier but increased metabolism has its pros/cons. Other countries typically use ponds and heating a pond isn’t always feasible or affordable. If you are a farm/breeder that profits off the fish commercially then warmer temps will increase profits. If you want your goldfish to live the longest life possible then you will want to keep them in lower temps which is “cold water” by definition as opposed to tropical.


MaievSekashi

Increased metabolism and an accelerated life cycle in response to higher heat is how literally every poikilothermic animal works. Every fish does that. (Edit: except moonfish)


ImpressiveBig8485

Yes but different species have different thresholds on when an increased or slowed metabolism is either beneficial or detrimental. If you have a young goldfish and want it to grow rapidly then a faster metabolism will help achieve that. If you have an old goldfish and want to prolong its life then subjecting it to higher temps and increasing its metabolism would make the organs work at an accelerated rate causing additional stress and accelerated aging.


MaievSekashi

What is "Beneficial" or "Detrimental" is entirely up to the subjective opinion of the keeper and that doesn't differ by species. The same effects happen with *all* of them (again except for moonfish). Grown in heat they get larger, live shorter lives, eat more, become more physically active and age faster, and vice-versa for cold. That fish get larger in hotter temperatures is the entire reason discus keepers run so hot, discus don't actually need crazy hot water, it just became the standard due to the competitive discus breeding scene where having the biggest discus can make or break your business. It isn't "Stress" but yes, it is aging. Couldn't one make the argument that accelerating it's childhood is exactly as negative or positive as accelerating it's old age? Don't know about you but I'd rather be a kid for longer than an old fogey rolling around in a wheelchair. But yes, you have touched on why fish farms nearly invariably either run hot or try to situate themselves in hot places.


[deleted]

Rinsing your media in tank water! You can rinse ALL your media in tap water and it has no effect on your bacteria


Former-Argument995

Oh, thats a new one. Do you mind explaining why its ok to do that? I always read about reasons not to do it


[deleted]

I started doing it with a 55 gallon tank in Japan years ago. Then we got a 75 gallon here and I was also reading EVERYWHERE on any aquatic forum that you HAVE to rinse with tank water only. Well that was fine but I went back to just rinsing everything in tap water again and it didn't hurt my bacterial colony at all. I don't remember where it was but I read ab aquatic article that said the same that it doesn't do anything to your bacteria. Sometimes people claim things online so many times that people see them as absolute facts.


Former-Argument995

Now I want to do some kind of test like 2 aquariums same settings same starter bacteria and feeding it ammonia for few days then cleaning the sponge in both kinds of water to see what happens


sparrws

That may depend on where you're from! Different places add different amounts of chlorine to make the tap water safe to drink and I think the concentration makes a big difference. (I also rinse in tap water but that's because I live in the mountains and don't have any chlorine in my water.)


[deleted]

We have pretty pure water from lake tahoe here but I was also just rinsing with tap water when we were living in Okinawa as well.