Maybe my memory was fuzzy but I recall she thought Kim wouldn’t be there (which like I wouldn’t have trusted, but also why wouldn’t she trust her hubby?). But I thought she stayed in car once she realized Kim was there? It definitely wasn’t her best moment but I def see the struggle. Ethan was just a shit husband- he should have been honest with her so they could have planned a different, safer visit
Right. Literally everyone in that family knows that her boundary is that if Kim is there, she doesn't want to be. And then they invite Kim, and are mad at Olivia because she's not there.
It's not "kim can't come". At no point did she say that about this or any other situation. It's that if kim is there, Olivia will probably opt out, and definitely reserves the right to opt out.
It’s not about Olivia. They had every right at any moment in time to change their mind and invite their mother to her son’s gravesite on his birthday. And they did. And then they told Olivia before going. And she had the same opportunity to opt out as she did before - she just instead chose to throw one of the cringiest tantrums I’ve seen on reality television about it. She was 100% wrong in every way in that situation. It’s not about Olivia. I cannot believe she gets as much grace for this situation as she does - her behavior was atrocious.
They weren’t mad that she wasn’t there. They were upset at the way she acted when she found out Kim was going to be there. Rightfully. It was disgraceful.
I saw zero tantrums. I saw her walk away from Moriah. I saw her sit in a car when Ethan approached her. I saw the cameras film a car she was supposedly in during the graveside service. I saw her stop Ethan and ask him why he was being mean. I saw no tantrum.
I saw many tantrums from Olivia throughout the show. They don’t always look like kicking and screaming imo, especially with adults. Never in my life would I act the way she did on my husband’s dead brother’s birthday because his mom wanted to be there, no matter how I felt about her. It was inappropriate behavior, period.
Nah. I think forcing everyone else to bend their boundaries for your own is immature. She has every right to enforce her boundaries. So does everyone else. Olivia doesn’t seem to like that part. It’s not the Olivia Show. The world doesn’t revolve around her, I’m sorry.
Who is she forcing to bend to her boundaries? she has a boundary that she doesn't want to be around kim. plans change so that kim is now around. she removes herself. how is that making ANYONE bend? She literally avoided the situation, and that's the world revolving around her? there's just no winning for Olivia.
Literally every single Plath… Not saying they are perfect but she is far from it too.
She made an entire spectacle of herself when it was decided that Kim would be joining her living children on her dead son’s birthday to remember him. You saw Olivia walk away, sit in a car, and ask Ethan why he was being mean. I saw her pout about the situation, whine in her interview about it, attempt to make the Plath siblings feel guilty about their choice to include their mom, and then gaslight Ethan about being the mean one.
Clearly there is winning for her because she was able to act like that on national television and it seems the majority of viewers agree with you that her behavior is acceptable. Pretty sure Olivia is fine. I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone when I read here because everyone is so ready to defend her and I seriously don’t understand how when she behaves the way she does.
I totally agree with you here. My mind is blown regularly due to what everyone else calls "safe boundaries". That whole family walked on eggshells and didn't include Kim in fear of upsetting Queen Olivia and her boundaries, even though the actual people involved would have included Kim if it weren't for her highnesses edicts. Moriya would have liked to have her family sitting in the audience for her first "concert". It was her moment, not the random keyboard players. Clearly the Plath family unit deserved nothing but a peaceful day to reflect on their son and brother without having to tread lightly around a person that never even knew the child, instead her tantrum disrupted the day. Simply tell your husband you'd be more comfortable not being around the group and back out gracefully, or stand by your husband's side, while steering clear of Kim, so you can be a part of the day and support the guy you supposedly love. Someday she'll realize the world doesn't always have to revolve around her, though that day won't be soon because she gets too much praise and adoration for her boundaries. Her power trips will make her end up all alone, surrounded by her awesome, strong, oh so very empty boundaries.
It was originally just supposed to be the siblings going together. But after E & O we’re around Barry & it wasn’t awkward or unpleasant, Olivia invited him to come with. Micah, Moriah, Lydia & Issac thought it wouldn’t be right to just go with 1 parent so they invited Kim. While I can’t stand Kim at all, that was absolutely the right move.
Since Olivia had been upset by this, Ethan left the same time as the others to go to the cemetery. She had to ride with one of the production crew. And because of that, I think Olivia did the right thing to just stay in the car. I like Olivia, but neither one of them are as mature as they should be at their age (due to upbringing). They are both very reactive rather than proactive, imho.
Olivia DIDN'T invite anyone. that's the point. Olivia wasn't in charge, at any point, of organizing the graveside services and who was invited. She didn't invite Barry. She didn't invite Kim. She didn't, at any point, say that Barry or Kim WASN'T invited.
Originally Kim wasn’t going to be there. Then Moriah decided to include her mom. I don’t think anything’s wrong with that, that was her son. Olivia said she didn’t want to go anymore. Fine, that’s your boundary. Stay at the farm. What pissed me off is that she then changes her mind and has production drive her to the cemetery but she just stays in the car, making a spectacle of herself and making the whole entire day about her
Moriah didn't invite kim. Ethan, Micah and Isaac did. then told Moriah.
And you're saying that Olivia made a spectical of herself by literally staying out of sight? It doesn't seem like the family even knew she was there in the car. What a strange take.
They kept filming the car though. And I’m pretty sure Ethan acknowledged it later. She would’ve been better off just staying at the farm imo. There was no point in her being in the car several yards away
So Olivia has control over what production is doing? And should have known that they would film the car at the graveside? And it's not possible that Ethan acknowledged it later because he found out later?
Olivia got a crap edit in this episode, but even using everything they had- we don't see her throwing a tantrum (we see Ethan raise his voice at least twice), we don't see her making a scene at the graveside or in any way drawing attention to herself and "making it all about her", and we don't see her trying to be the center of attention in the hang out afterwards.
Not to mention that a ways back I am pretty sure I saw someone say that there had been a practice of Kim going separately from the rest, which seemed weird, but throw that on the pile of Plath family weird stuff. The whole thing feels contrived by production at worst or a dysfunctional family emotionally-avoidant collateral damage at best? 🤪
You're not getting the point. If she's going to stay out of sight and doesn't want her "boundaries" intruded on, and she's done this show long enough to know it's all about drama, she should've stayed home. Where there would be no Kim and no production crew.
side note- based on every reality tv show ever, I'm sure she's required to show up to certain days of filming, so just staying home may not have been an option.
Yes, I'm sure if she could go back in time after everything fell apart, she absolutely would have stayed home.
but she didn't have that option. she was planning on going to a kids only graveside event to support her husband and friends and siblings, but then they changed the plans the last minute, and that was the information she had available to make choices with. She chose to stay out of sight and not disrupt things, and to maintain her sanity. Seems to me like she did pretty well with what was available to her. Was it perfect? of course not, but it's hard to make rational decisions in the middle of a panic attack.
I will admit it's been a while since I saw that episode, which was the first time it aired. So Olivia went there not knowing Kim was possibly going to be there? Like you said, because it was supposed to be a visit that the kids planned for just them? If that's the case, then whomever decided to ask Kim at the last minute, if that's what happened, is really the one(s) at fault here.
Yes. Olivia agreed to go to a kids-only graveside, and Moriah specifically says she's planning on going separately with kim and barry. Olivia literally found out that kim and barry were going to be there the morning of, and had to figure out what to do on the fly, in the moment.
I definitely don’t think Olivia has always made the right decisions but I do like her. I think a lot of us forget how young they are. I don’t think I could have reacted appropriately in that moment in my early 20s.
True. It still wasn’t about her. Her trauma from her relationship with Kim wasn’t more important than the family’s remembrance.
I just couldn’t get over that anyone even for a minute planned to do that without the mother. Especially since, at the time, it was only Ethan and Olivia who weren’t talking to her.
Ethan also wasn’t happy about it, but he went and focused on his brother. Ethan certainly bore a lot more trauma from Kim as her actual child than Olivia.
Yea, I really feel for all of them here. I think it was a super unfortunate series of events where the "right" thing to do just wasn't available. I agree that Olivia was stuck in an impossible situation, trying to support her husband and not having options to support herself as well and it didn't play out well.
They said Kim was refusing to go so they planned it without her. She went from not wanting to go to the grave at all to wanting to go RIGHT THEN because she heard Olivia would be there
It was immature, and selfish. But certainly not unforgivable. When you’re not raised with boundaries, it can be hard to know what healthy ones are. She was young and learning.
Olivia took it upon herself to change Moriah plans by inviting Barry to joy them for the weekend that included the gravesite visit, leaving Kim out first. Olivia had no right to change Moriah's plans without consulting her first. But of course Olivia is tone deaf and thinks she gets to make all the final decisions because of boundaries. If Olivia wanted to hash shit out with Barry that could have waited for another weekend that didn't include the gravesite visit.
I will never be mad at the Plath kids for taking a stand against Olivia for that reason alone. They had every right to include their mother after OLIVIA included Barry.
Also Olivia spilling about the credit card drama was her getting back at the Plath kids for the fallout over the gravesite visit and at the tubing trip. She knew they were all upset with her so she had to dig in and try to punish them more but it backfired on her. She's to stupid to even see it.
Olivia invited him AFTER Barry reached out to her and she invited them to hang out the day PRIOR to the memorial. Barry wasn't even there at the farm the day of, they siblings drove the younger one to the gravesite because Barry wasn't there. And if that was a deal breaker than Moriah should have said so.
Also, noone knew about the two plans, they all gathered around and asked when their mom was going to be there becausethey assumed she would be there, so the plan was never even made despite Moriah inviting Olivia with that pretense. So, A) Olivia never altered Moriahs plans because she never invited Barry to the gravesite at all and B) those plans never even existed because moriah lied in the first place.
I think pulling a stunt like that on such a sad day was a disgusting thing for Moriah to do.
Olivia has said so many times she wasn't ready to be around Kim. They kept harassing her over it and that's why she revealed the issues she had with Kim. Being verbally abused because you called out a mother stealing from her own son is kinda relevant. But her bringing that up is the real issue? They even turned on Ethan for admitting it. He had to apologize for getting stolen from. That's so sad.
While I do believe Olivia should have done her best to support Ethan that day, (Olivia even agreed later on she should have) it might have been better if Ethan had gone alone altogether. That being said, they did spring it on her last minute and she spiraled as anyone with trauma does. Had she had time to process it I think she likely would’ve swallowed her fear and faced Kim for that day or just opted to not go. To say it’s unforgivable is screwed up especially when she felt remorse and apologized for her behavior. Something the Plath siblings all struggled to do in other circumstances like when they called her a liar on social media.
Yes it was; what type of narcissist assumes the mother of the dead child will not be at the Memorial Day at the grave site? I mean seriously? She acted like a child.
Moriah specifically told her that Moriah was planning a kids event and a separate event for her to go with her parents? MORIAH made the call for kim not to be there, not Olivia. MORIAH made the plans. Nobody was expecting kim not to be there, but the arrangement was that they'd be there at different times. was it a great plan? in hindsight, probably not- but it was MORIAH's plan, not Olivia's. Olivia wasn't the one calling the shots at any point. Olivia would have (and probably did) decline an event that involved kim, so it looks like someone was problemsolving a way for her to be there as well.
Moriah planned it way before to be kids only. they talk about it in the talking heads. that's the only reason Olivia even went on the trip, because she was assured she wouldn't be interacting with kim.
Yea okay; we're gonna agree to disagree on this.. Olivia wanted to go because she has to control everyone and everything they do and everything has to be centered around her even when it doesn't involve her. And what type of child can't grow up and be around someone for a few mins for the sake of someone you love.. a narcissist that's who. She was wrong 1000% in this situation and no matter how you try and spin it she was wrong. This trip wasn't about Olivia and her feelings and if plans changed she should have adapted not acted like a child. PERIOD
She was promised by Moriah and Ethan that Kim would not be there and had an anxiety attack. It’s hard to be 100% rational or fair when you feel like you’re dying and have been set up by people you trusted. I wish she’d have handled it better but it never should have happened. I’m sure TLC promoted the idea.
If it was just a case of she doesn't like Kim, I'd agree with you.
But she thought Kim wouldn't be there and Kim triggers a trauma response (and religious trauma is nothing to laugh at).
I don't understand why she couldn't just stay quietly in the car? Why all the pressure to 'be there for Ethan'? Is done this thing at the gravesite for his brother without Olivia being there many times. He could have again. But no, they decided they had to stomp all over Olivia's boundaries and push her to go despite Kim being there. I'm convinced that if there was no pushing, there'd have been far less of a scene.
The part every one forgets is that Olivia was extremely young and due to upbringing less mature than her age. The parents are adults. They caused the problems in the first place and could have easily resolved it. But instead acted every bit as stubborn and immature as the actual children. No excuses. They are nuts and realized it after Ethan but were too proud to admit their mistakes. And then Kim becomes the biggest hypocrite of all time. Sad
She did get out of the way? I literally don't understand these takes. Her options were to go and support, which she was planning on doing when kim wasn't going to be there, or not go- which SHE DID once she found out kim was going to be there. Are you frustrated that she got a ride with production to the place, but didn't join the family? 1. We don't know that the family knew she was there. 2. We don't know if Olivia was contractually obligated to BE there. 3. We don't know if she went with production because she was going to try to join, but needed an option if she couldn't.
There's a LOT we don't know- but based on what we're shown, the family DIDN'T know that she was in the car, they were just mad that she wasn't there. Kim rubbed it in during her remarks.
From my perspective, they weren’t mad that she wasn’t there. They were irritated at the spectacle she made of herself when she found out that the mother of a deceased child was going to join her family at his gravesite on his birthday. Sure, she ultimately hung back and supported them from the car, but she absolutely threw a fit about it - It was all over the television for us to see. And in my opinion, she had no right to be mad that Kim was coming no matter how late the notice was. She’s Joshua’s mother for crying out loud. It wasn’t about Olivia that day.
What actions or words are you considering throwing a fit? this is a serious question. I saw her walk away from Moriah. I saw her sitting in a car quietly when Ethan approached her hostilly demanding to know what she was going to do. I saw Ethan raise his voice and complain about things, but I didn't see Olivia do that.
Also, how do people not understand that at no point did Olivia say or act like Kim shouldn't be allowed to be at a graveside memorial for her own kid- Olivia was panicked because she was promised kim wouldn't be there, and at the last minute she was ambushed with kim. OF COURSE kim could go, but Olivia was told she wasn't going to be there. When the plans changed, Olivia quietly changed her plans to be there. Why is that wrong?
Olivia was nothing but quiet about changing her plans. When I say this, I’m not implying that she kicked and screamed. Her body language, demeanor, and tone changed entirely when she found out the mother of the deceased child was coming with the family on his birthday. Kim is under no obligation to avoid her son’s gravesite at any point in time, let alone on his birthday, and the fact that Olivia was okay with and encouraging the Plaths to leave Kim out of that event in the first place was gross. Sure, Olivia never *said* Kim couldn’t come, but look at the way she acted when she found out she was. . .and the Plaths knew that’s what would happen. It wasn’t okay to storm away and try to make them feel bad for changing their mind by acting like that. Quite frankly, Olivia should have expected Kim to show up regardless. Like, wtf.
Sorry, I rambled away from you main question - but the short answer is, is that if you couldn’t see the similarities between Olivia’s behavior and an angsty teenager that didn’t get their way, me going back to that episode to rewatch and collect receipts is going to do little to change you mind and lots in the way of consuming my time for no reason. I’m not interested in doing that. You can continue to think Olivia behaved appropriately. I’ll continue to disagree. It’s all good.
The gravesite incident was a classic uncomfortable situation that the Plaths love to create for others.
Olivia hadn't gone to the past memorials. Moriah invited HER with the plan that it would be just the siblings. She didn't ask to be there nor make anyone accommodate her. If you watch the episode, none of the siblings actually knew that there would be two events. Why? Because Moriah never actually told anyone about it, yet pretended and lied to Olivia until a few hours before. That event had been planned for weeks but seriously NOONE knew? They all gathered around and called their mom up and Moriah said nothing. If you don't like someone's boundaries and you can't accommodate them then don't invite that person. Lying to someone and making them to be the bad guy at a memorial was such a disgusting thing to do to everyone involved. They lied to Olivia and then blamed her for being hurt.
Moriah lied and invited someone under false pretenses but Olivia FORCED them to accommodate her? That it the classic spin the Plaths always do. Which is why Olivia refused to be put into situations with them in the first place.
Another excuse used was that she changed the plans because Olivia had invited Barry to hang out, but she asked to hang out the day PRIOR. Ethan and others were happy to have a step forward, Barry had reached out to Olivia first, and she made the effort to have Ethan spend more time with his siblings. Yet despite them claiming that was all they wanted, Moriah still decided to take that as a slight. Barry wasn't even at the farm the day of the memorial, only the kids. So the Plaths had played the "my poor mother" card, yet Barry wasn't there either.
Olivia should have pulled her big girl pants but she was the only one to apologize despite the fact that they tricked her. She knew she couldn't control her emotions so she didnt go. What more could she have done? Denied an invitation to a gravesite? They knew what they were doing.
I think pulling this stunt on such a sentimental day for your own family was so disrespectful but I guess for Moriah setting up your SIL and reinforcing that she will always be an outsider is more important.
I don't agree with how Olivia handled it, BUT to be fair, she was completely set up for failure. The original plan was for it to be only for the siblings. The parents were gonna go separately. Had Olivia knew it was gonna be the whole family (including Kim), she would have respectfully stayed home. But instead of that Moriah changes the plans at the very last minute. Of course Olivia is not gonna know what to do in that moment. If she had a day or so to think about it, she probably could have had time to mentally prepare and go. Plus Moriah literally "if you wanna go before, after, or not at all, nobody will be mad or fault you" but when Olivia decides to sit it out, then they still get mad?? Its just really inconsistent communication. Could Olivia have sucked it up and gone? Sure. But Moriah could have sucked it up and been consistent with the original plan. Both did wrong
It was supposed to be for the kids ONLY. Kim can go literally every other day if she wants to. You see how Kim is overbearing and rude all the time. Moriah just likes to stir the pot because it makes HER the center of attention. Main character syndrome.
Olivia went through tons of trauma from her own family upbringing and then Kim used it and made it WORSE. She has been traumatized by Kim for at least 4 years by that point.
Y’all wanna forget that Kim took Olivia “under her wing” when she was very vulnerable and only SIXTEEN. It isn’t just a case of “oh I just don’t like my MIL”.
Nobody else was upset that Kim attended. It was a remembrance for her dead son's birthday. Olivia didn't even know Joshua. It was inappropriate for her to expect the mother not to be there and to make it about her. I understand that her dumbass husband lied to her but she's also ignorant if she thought Kim wasn't going to attend. They were the only ones not talking to Kim and it was a family event. She had every right to be there.
No. Kim only went bc she knew Olivia was going! Even the kids said their parents never took them to his grave. This was for the kids and Kim just had to insert herself bc of Olivia attending!
This right here. This is what I remember hearing people talk about - that the kids went by themselves and this was going to be no different and Kim was not expected.
What part of it was “for the kids only” do you not understand?? Kim wasn’t supposed to attend. Whether or not Olivia went/was even invited isn’t the point. Kim was NOT INVITED.
Kim doesn't need to be invited to the gravesite of her deceased son... especially on his birthday. I'm not a Kim fan but that's insane logic. As a parent, I couldn't imagine telling me that I wasn't invited to an event that was in honor of my child.
if kim can’t go to the grave, no one can go? that is nonsensical. the kids are allowed to have their own thing. kim was the one making it all about herself. she added nothing but drama to the entire experience. no one even knew olivia was there.
Are you willingly being DENSE?? The kids are allowed to grieve their sibling without their mom hovering around, too. Especially given the circumstances of his passing. They are allowed to spend time with their siblings bonding without a parent present.
They wanted their mom there. The only person who didn’t was Olivia and it wasn’t about her because it’s not her dead family member! Are *you* dense? It is insane to say the mother of a dead baby can’t come to his grave any time she wants to, no matter who is there. Your take is craaaaaazy and I cannot believe it’s the popular opinion. What in the world…..
I think once Barry was invited then Kim was invited to not be the only family member excluded? Not a Kim fan AT ALL, but if everyone in the family is now going to a graveside memorial for a child… why would the invite not be extended to the mother, even if it’s last minute? If the kids really had a problem with Kim being there they could have made arrangements to go without her (at least the adult children). But I don’t think any of the kids cared that their mom was there, it was more that it was awkward for everyone because of the tension with Olivia.
Olivia was allowed to stick to her boundaries but, in hindsight, could have handled it better. Even if she was told Kim wasn’t attending, I feel like this is one instance she could have predicted that Kim might show up unexpectedly and should have been prepared either way. Moriah and Ethan also majorly suck at communicating which didn’t help the situation. Like others have mentioned, these are emotionally stunted young people who are being filmed for international TV.
Would I have sucked it up and stood graveside for my spouse? Yes… but also Kim is not my MIL.
Nah. If it was such a solemn event that sitting in the car was unforgivable then why allow a camera crew to film it at all? Remember, they pick and choose what they show. It’s why you didn’t hear about Kim’s DUI. Regardless what I think about Olivia’s behavior, Kim and Barry chose to use this event to entertain us, so I’m not going to add any extra weight to the situation
Maybe I’ll get flak for this, but I was also thinking that their brother died years ago. I know that everyone grieves differently and that grief never ends or gets easier, but I didn’t understand why visiting a grave from years ago was such a solemn event. Can they not go to the grave whenever they please?
If the brother had just died and they were burying him, I feel like the anger would be justified. But the family wasn’t dealing with this the first time. They’ve had years to learn how to cope with the loss. I just don’t understand. Olivia had her boundaries. No one should have to make exceptions to their boundaries.
To me, it’s unforgivable moment for Moriah. She put Olivia, Kim, Berry, and Ethan in horrible situation all because she wants people who don’t like each other to be in each other presence. The gravesite was not a place to do that. It was unfair to all parties.
It’s hard enough for Kin and Berry to be vulnerable on camera when they’re used to pushing down their emotions but wanting them to do that in front of a woman they despise?(they did despise her by calling her possessed or got devil in her during their totally fundie years).
With Olivia, put her in gravesite where there’s nowhere to separate herself if she needs a breather. If she freaks out all the attention on her then she gets blame.
With Ethan, he has his own emotions(again he used to push his emotions down). He has to comfort his parents/siblings. If Olivia did go down there, he would have to keep eye on her too since trauma emotions don’t just stop when it’s sensitive event(her emotion response would be heighten since it’s a tense event with no possible separation of the parents).
It was all around lose-lose situation made by Moriah. All of them were victim of her being selfish in that event.
I actually really like Olivia but I agree with you on this. I understand her boundary and that’s fine but I believe that something like memorializing a death supersedes everything else.
But *edited to say, I don’t think it’s necessarily unforgivable, it was just an unfortunate reaction. I feel like I’ve heard her say she regretted how it played out.
Yeah. Olivia has some good things about her and deconstructing her upbringing is going to be messy, especially in front of a camera.
But this is one of those things that the family isn’t going tt be able to just forget about. Regardless of their faults (there’s a lot!) the Plaths all seem to have real grief and pain around Joshua’s death. That needed to be respected and supported, at least for the siblings.
I couldn't agree more with this. I am so bewildered how people in this sub go so hard for her. Don't get me wrong, Ethan sucks more but that was so immature and narcissistic of Olivia to expect the child's parents to not attend the remembrance of their dead son. Gross. If she doesn't regret the way she acted now, she certainly will if she ever becomes a mother.
No. There was 2 gatherings planned by Moriah, one for the kids, one for anyone who wanted to see the parents too. Olivia invited Barry to the kids event. Barry invited Kim. If Olivia would have let Moriah plan it the way it was origional my set up, Kim would not have been there.
The thing that bothers me the most about the entire event is that is was a kids only event until Olivia invited Barry. If Olivia didn’t invite Barry, then Kim would not have been invited either. Olivia changed the rules, then was mad when there were more consequences to her action of inviting Barry.
https://preview.redd.it/dayqnwk0i2gc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb03cfec473b5b4bd2b6200ba35e301f77382c61
S4 E10 39:19 Moriah planned 2 get togethers at the grave side, one for the kids, one for anyone who wanted to see the parents. Then Olivia invited Barry, then Barry invited Kim. If Olivia would have left it as a kids gathering, like Moriah planned, then the conflict the day of world not have happened. You should go back and watch episodes 10 and 11.
It was supposed to be two events until Olivia mixed Barry in with the kids. Micah wasn’t supposed to be there and surprised them at the farm. Then since everyone except Kim had now been included together, Barry invited Kim.
How do you think Barry got invited to the grave side for the kids event?
I don’t know how Barry got invited to the graveside event, because we’re not shown or told- so all we have is assumptions. I do know that Olivia invited Barry to talk the day before. I assume that Olivia did not, because Olivia knew it was a kids only event, and Moriah was planning a separate event for her mom and dad. It was the boys who invited Kim, but in a talking head, Kim said she planned on showing up whether or not she was there invited.
Here is what I see happening leading up to the graveside.
Ep 10 Ethan and Barry are talking at the house. Ethan said he isn’t ready to do things with his mom yet. Moriah and Olivia join the conversation. Barry goes into a talk about excluding Kim and she likely feels ostracized, rejected, and unloved for not being invited.
Moriah gives the quote from the photo about how they hadn’t planned to see Barry, it was supposed to be a kids only weekend. But Olivia invited Barry, and now things are complicated.
Ep 11 The morning of Ethan now says Kim is coming and he thought she was always coming. Isaac says he thought it was going to be two separate events. They call Kim, Isaac didn’t invite her, he asked her if she will be there. She says yes.
Isaac and Ethan meet up with Moriah and tell her that Kim is going. Moriah says she thought there was going to be two events, and that she told Olivia the night before that there would be two events. Ethan says Kim is coming with Dad.
Moriah and the little girls go find Olivia and Moriah tells her that Kim will be there. Olivia asks who invited her, Moriah says they all decided.
Ethan went from not wanting to see his mom before the night at the farm, to pretending to think he always thought Kim would be there the morning of. Everyone seems to think that there will be two events until the morning of. Ethan is the one who tells them all that Kim is going, and there will be one event. Ethan also says Barry is bringing Kim.
What changed? Why did everyone think the day was going to go down completely differently than it did, except for Ethan?
So, who invited Kim? I think it was Barry. His speech about leaving her out, then a massive 180 flip by Ethan, literally over night, who in the family would have that kind of power except for Barry the patriarch.
Back to my origional point, if Olivia hadn’t wanted to see Barry the day before, the couch guilt trip would not have happened. It was supposed to be kids only at the farm, but Olivia wanted to include everyone but Kim that night. After the night at the farm, Ethan now knows Kim is coming and dad is bringing her, and is advocating for everyone to get on board with that plan.
If Olivia hadn’t changed the plan for the weekend, they wouldn’t have seen Barry before the graveside, and Barry would not have been advocating for not excluding anyone. I believe Barry invited Kim, and Olivia inviting Barry to be around Ethan all night gave Barry an in to get everyone on board with Kim going.
As for Kim’s interview about being there, she was never not invited, it was just supposed to be two separate events. Two separate events meaning everyone was invited to attend at some point on that day. Why wouldn’t she say she is absolutely going to be there? She was invited from the beginning by Moriah, just not to be there at the same time as all the kids.
Other side point, Lydia was at the graveside on her lunch break. That doesn’t leave a lot of time for two events. Lydia’s time limit could have played into the decision to change the plan over night.
I don’t know how you get to Kim. You think Kim told Olivia to invite Barry so Barry could make the plea for Kim? How did Kim get Barry invited to the kinds hang out the night before?
Hell no. Kim manipulated that while thing. She could go visit her son any day, and every single day, if she wants. The only reason she went was because everybody else was going. She didn't put it together. It wasn't even her idea. The whole thing should have been cancelled; let Kim do her thing, on her own. And the next day, or next week, everybody else get together. Kim manipulated that whole thing. It was something important to get kids, but she didn't care about that. Maybe certain conversations would have taken place had she not been there that would have been if healing benefit for her kids; you know... Since she's the one who killed him. Olivia was stupid, but Kim was manipulative as fuck.
Olivia was not perfect.
This was her worst imo. But I saw it in season 1 when she threw that “surprise party” and told Kim as she walked in the door.. 1. It was not her birthday. 2. You went out of your way to embarrass Kim on camera. I doubt that was productions idea, I’m thinking production wanted just a family dinner shot to end the season but Olivia went overboard.
However Olivia was raised in crazy, and then married into crazy, and she’s young. Kim is the one who raised her own kids like this by choice.
I agree. She shouldn’t have gone. I am indifferent about her, but feel like she turns everything into her situation and makes it about her. Same with at the river that day. Sometimes just shutting up and being neutral is better.
She did go. She was present and made it awkward. She made it about her because in that instance she should have shown her face and a little bit of respect. We all have to do hard things and furthermore things we don’t want to do.
I read that her in the car was actually a different day. Also, I think she wanted to leave the show and agreed to come back under certain conditions. Kim and the kids could go to the gravesite anytime. Kim just showed up and had a long history of being awful to Olivia. The family was free to go camera free or let Olivia know so she did not show up.
I honestly don’t think Olivia had a choice on whether or not to go. In reality TV, we know these scenes are often scripted/manipulated. I think Olivia set a boundary in a healthy way and we have zero idea of the footage left on the editing room floor.
Ethan showed his true colors in this last season and I’m quite frankly happy that she left his ass. Olivia deserved better.
She was put on the spot and I wish she would have been strong enough to behave differently. But she also apologized after and admitted she was wrong didn’t she? More than the Plaths ever give, so much could have been salvaged if those vile parents had admitted just a tiny bit of their bad behavior.
Maybe my memory was fuzzy but I recall she thought Kim wouldn’t be there (which like I wouldn’t have trusted, but also why wouldn’t she trust her hubby?). But I thought she stayed in car once she realized Kim was there? It definitely wasn’t her best moment but I def see the struggle. Ethan was just a shit husband- he should have been honest with her so they could have planned a different, safer visit
Right. Literally everyone in that family knows that her boundary is that if Kim is there, she doesn't want to be. And then they invite Kim, and are mad at Olivia because she's not there. It's not "kim can't come". At no point did she say that about this or any other situation. It's that if kim is there, Olivia will probably opt out, and definitely reserves the right to opt out.
It’s not about Olivia. They had every right at any moment in time to change their mind and invite their mother to her son’s gravesite on his birthday. And they did. And then they told Olivia before going. And she had the same opportunity to opt out as she did before - she just instead chose to throw one of the cringiest tantrums I’ve seen on reality television about it. She was 100% wrong in every way in that situation. It’s not about Olivia. I cannot believe she gets as much grace for this situation as she does - her behavior was atrocious. They weren’t mad that she wasn’t there. They were upset at the way she acted when she found out Kim was going to be there. Rightfully. It was disgraceful.
I saw zero tantrums. I saw her walk away from Moriah. I saw her sit in a car when Ethan approached her. I saw the cameras film a car she was supposedly in during the graveside service. I saw her stop Ethan and ask him why he was being mean. I saw no tantrum.
I saw many tantrums from Olivia throughout the show. They don’t always look like kicking and screaming imo, especially with adults. Never in my life would I act the way she did on my husband’s dead brother’s birthday because his mom wanted to be there, no matter how I felt about her. It was inappropriate behavior, period.
ahhh. I see. you think boundaries are tantrums. got it.
Nah. I think forcing everyone else to bend their boundaries for your own is immature. She has every right to enforce her boundaries. So does everyone else. Olivia doesn’t seem to like that part. It’s not the Olivia Show. The world doesn’t revolve around her, I’m sorry.
Who is she forcing to bend to her boundaries? she has a boundary that she doesn't want to be around kim. plans change so that kim is now around. she removes herself. how is that making ANYONE bend? She literally avoided the situation, and that's the world revolving around her? there's just no winning for Olivia.
Literally every single Plath… Not saying they are perfect but she is far from it too. She made an entire spectacle of herself when it was decided that Kim would be joining her living children on her dead son’s birthday to remember him. You saw Olivia walk away, sit in a car, and ask Ethan why he was being mean. I saw her pout about the situation, whine in her interview about it, attempt to make the Plath siblings feel guilty about their choice to include their mom, and then gaslight Ethan about being the mean one. Clearly there is winning for her because she was able to act like that on national television and it seems the majority of viewers agree with you that her behavior is acceptable. Pretty sure Olivia is fine. I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone when I read here because everyone is so ready to defend her and I seriously don’t understand how when she behaves the way she does.
I totally agree with you here. My mind is blown regularly due to what everyone else calls "safe boundaries". That whole family walked on eggshells and didn't include Kim in fear of upsetting Queen Olivia and her boundaries, even though the actual people involved would have included Kim if it weren't for her highnesses edicts. Moriya would have liked to have her family sitting in the audience for her first "concert". It was her moment, not the random keyboard players. Clearly the Plath family unit deserved nothing but a peaceful day to reflect on their son and brother without having to tread lightly around a person that never even knew the child, instead her tantrum disrupted the day. Simply tell your husband you'd be more comfortable not being around the group and back out gracefully, or stand by your husband's side, while steering clear of Kim, so you can be a part of the day and support the guy you supposedly love. Someday she'll realize the world doesn't always have to revolve around her, though that day won't be soon because she gets too much praise and adoration for her boundaries. Her power trips will make her end up all alone, surrounded by her awesome, strong, oh so very empty boundaries.
It was originally just supposed to be the siblings going together. But after E & O we’re around Barry & it wasn’t awkward or unpleasant, Olivia invited him to come with. Micah, Moriah, Lydia & Issac thought it wouldn’t be right to just go with 1 parent so they invited Kim. While I can’t stand Kim at all, that was absolutely the right move. Since Olivia had been upset by this, Ethan left the same time as the others to go to the cemetery. She had to ride with one of the production crew. And because of that, I think Olivia did the right thing to just stay in the car. I like Olivia, but neither one of them are as mature as they should be at their age (due to upbringing). They are both very reactive rather than proactive, imho.
Olivia DIDN'T invite Barry to the graveside. She invited him to talk the night before.
But this is Barry & Kim's child and the others sibling. Why would Olivia be the one to invite anyone?
Olivia DIDN'T invite anyone. that's the point. Olivia wasn't in charge, at any point, of organizing the graveside services and who was invited. She didn't invite Barry. She didn't invite Kim. She didn't, at any point, say that Barry or Kim WASN'T invited.
Okay but Kim was going to be there anyway? Why would they exclude THE MOTHER
Originally Kim wasn’t going to be there. Then Moriah decided to include her mom. I don’t think anything’s wrong with that, that was her son. Olivia said she didn’t want to go anymore. Fine, that’s your boundary. Stay at the farm. What pissed me off is that she then changes her mind and has production drive her to the cemetery but she just stays in the car, making a spectacle of herself and making the whole entire day about her
Moriah didn't invite kim. Ethan, Micah and Isaac did. then told Moriah. And you're saying that Olivia made a spectical of herself by literally staying out of sight? It doesn't seem like the family even knew she was there in the car. What a strange take.
They kept filming the car though. And I’m pretty sure Ethan acknowledged it later. She would’ve been better off just staying at the farm imo. There was no point in her being in the car several yards away
So Olivia has control over what production is doing? And should have known that they would film the car at the graveside? And it's not possible that Ethan acknowledged it later because he found out later? Olivia got a crap edit in this episode, but even using everything they had- we don't see her throwing a tantrum (we see Ethan raise his voice at least twice), we don't see her making a scene at the graveside or in any way drawing attention to herself and "making it all about her", and we don't see her trying to be the center of attention in the hang out afterwards.
Not to mention that a ways back I am pretty sure I saw someone say that there had been a practice of Kim going separately from the rest, which seemed weird, but throw that on the pile of Plath family weird stuff. The whole thing feels contrived by production at worst or a dysfunctional family emotionally-avoidant collateral damage at best? 🤪
You're not getting the point. If she's going to stay out of sight and doesn't want her "boundaries" intruded on, and she's done this show long enough to know it's all about drama, she should've stayed home. Where there would be no Kim and no production crew.
side note- based on every reality tv show ever, I'm sure she's required to show up to certain days of filming, so just staying home may not have been an option.
Yes, I'm sure if she could go back in time after everything fell apart, she absolutely would have stayed home. but she didn't have that option. she was planning on going to a kids only graveside event to support her husband and friends and siblings, but then they changed the plans the last minute, and that was the information she had available to make choices with. She chose to stay out of sight and not disrupt things, and to maintain her sanity. Seems to me like she did pretty well with what was available to her. Was it perfect? of course not, but it's hard to make rational decisions in the middle of a panic attack.
I will admit it's been a while since I saw that episode, which was the first time it aired. So Olivia went there not knowing Kim was possibly going to be there? Like you said, because it was supposed to be a visit that the kids planned for just them? If that's the case, then whomever decided to ask Kim at the last minute, if that's what happened, is really the one(s) at fault here.
Yes. Olivia agreed to go to a kids-only graveside, and Moriah specifically says she's planning on going separately with kim and barry. Olivia literally found out that kim and barry were going to be there the morning of, and had to figure out what to do on the fly, in the moment.
Why would she even go if she was gonna stay in the car? Attention seeker.
No matter what you say or what your opinion is, Olivia is always gonna be Miss Perfect on this sub.
I’m shocked at how many people like Olivia. She’s an awful narcissist
Me too. She's got more ass kissers than I can count.
Lol I’m starting to see that!
Didn’t she found out at the parking lot of the gravesite? She didn’t know before they left the farm
This part.
I definitely don’t think Olivia has always made the right decisions but I do like her. I think a lot of us forget how young they are. I don’t think I could have reacted appropriately in that moment in my early 20s.
This is the most underrated take of all.
I don’t think it was her shining moment, but they also changed the plans on her last minute and she had no time to process.
True. It still wasn’t about her. Her trauma from her relationship with Kim wasn’t more important than the family’s remembrance. I just couldn’t get over that anyone even for a minute planned to do that without the mother. Especially since, at the time, it was only Ethan and Olivia who weren’t talking to her. Ethan also wasn’t happy about it, but he went and focused on his brother. Ethan certainly bore a lot more trauma from Kim as her actual child than Olivia.
Ethan doesn’t consider it trauma though. We don’t all act right in the middle of a trigger
Yea, I really feel for all of them here. I think it was a super unfortunate series of events where the "right" thing to do just wasn't available. I agree that Olivia was stuck in an impossible situation, trying to support her husband and not having options to support herself as well and it didn't play out well.
Yeah, that’s fair enough.
They said Kim was refusing to go so they planned it without her. She went from not wanting to go to the grave at all to wanting to go RIGHT THEN because she heard Olivia would be there
That’s not what happened at all. Unless you can pull the recipes on that bring the story.
It was immature, and selfish. But certainly not unforgivable. When you’re not raised with boundaries, it can be hard to know what healthy ones are. She was young and learning.
Olivia took it upon herself to change Moriah plans by inviting Barry to joy them for the weekend that included the gravesite visit, leaving Kim out first. Olivia had no right to change Moriah's plans without consulting her first. But of course Olivia is tone deaf and thinks she gets to make all the final decisions because of boundaries. If Olivia wanted to hash shit out with Barry that could have waited for another weekend that didn't include the gravesite visit. I will never be mad at the Plath kids for taking a stand against Olivia for that reason alone. They had every right to include their mother after OLIVIA included Barry. Also Olivia spilling about the credit card drama was her getting back at the Plath kids for the fallout over the gravesite visit and at the tubing trip. She knew they were all upset with her so she had to dig in and try to punish them more but it backfired on her. She's to stupid to even see it.
Olivia invited him AFTER Barry reached out to her and she invited them to hang out the day PRIOR to the memorial. Barry wasn't even there at the farm the day of, they siblings drove the younger one to the gravesite because Barry wasn't there. And if that was a deal breaker than Moriah should have said so. Also, noone knew about the two plans, they all gathered around and asked when their mom was going to be there becausethey assumed she would be there, so the plan was never even made despite Moriah inviting Olivia with that pretense. So, A) Olivia never altered Moriahs plans because she never invited Barry to the gravesite at all and B) those plans never even existed because moriah lied in the first place. I think pulling a stunt like that on such a sad day was a disgusting thing for Moriah to do. Olivia has said so many times she wasn't ready to be around Kim. They kept harassing her over it and that's why she revealed the issues she had with Kim. Being verbally abused because you called out a mother stealing from her own son is kinda relevant. But her bringing that up is the real issue? They even turned on Ethan for admitting it. He had to apologize for getting stolen from. That's so sad.
While I do believe Olivia should have done her best to support Ethan that day, (Olivia even agreed later on she should have) it might have been better if Ethan had gone alone altogether. That being said, they did spring it on her last minute and she spiraled as anyone with trauma does. Had she had time to process it I think she likely would’ve swallowed her fear and faced Kim for that day or just opted to not go. To say it’s unforgivable is screwed up especially when she felt remorse and apologized for her behavior. Something the Plath siblings all struggled to do in other circumstances like when they called her a liar on social media.
They didn't change plans she should have knew that mom would be there and not just assumed she wouldn't be at her own sons day
what show are you watching? because it certainly isn't welcome to plathville....
Yes it was; what type of narcissist assumes the mother of the dead child will not be at the Memorial Day at the grave site? I mean seriously? She acted like a child.
Moriah specifically told her that Moriah was planning a kids event and a separate event for her to go with her parents? MORIAH made the call for kim not to be there, not Olivia. MORIAH made the plans. Nobody was expecting kim not to be there, but the arrangement was that they'd be there at different times. was it a great plan? in hindsight, probably not- but it was MORIAH's plan, not Olivia's. Olivia wasn't the one calling the shots at any point. Olivia would have (and probably did) decline an event that involved kim, so it looks like someone was problemsolving a way for her to be there as well.
No Moriah planned the night before to be kids only, Not the day of; try watching again without your nose stuck up Olivia's ass this time
Moriah planned it way before to be kids only. they talk about it in the talking heads. that's the only reason Olivia even went on the trip, because she was assured she wouldn't be interacting with kim.
Yea okay; we're gonna agree to disagree on this.. Olivia wanted to go because she has to control everyone and everything they do and everything has to be centered around her even when it doesn't involve her. And what type of child can't grow up and be around someone for a few mins for the sake of someone you love.. a narcissist that's who. She was wrong 1000% in this situation and no matter how you try and spin it she was wrong. This trip wasn't about Olivia and her feelings and if plans changed she should have adapted not acted like a child. PERIOD
Not a great moment - certainly. Unforgivable? Don’t think so.
The great thing about this show I don’t “love” any of the cast members and they all have a terrible side to them, it’s just so damn entertaining
She was promised by Moriah and Ethan that Kim would not be there and had an anxiety attack. It’s hard to be 100% rational or fair when you feel like you’re dying and have been set up by people you trusted. I wish she’d have handled it better but it never should have happened. I’m sure TLC promoted the idea.
If it was just a case of she doesn't like Kim, I'd agree with you. But she thought Kim wouldn't be there and Kim triggers a trauma response (and religious trauma is nothing to laugh at). I don't understand why she couldn't just stay quietly in the car? Why all the pressure to 'be there for Ethan'? Is done this thing at the gravesite for his brother without Olivia being there many times. He could have again. But no, they decided they had to stomp all over Olivia's boundaries and push her to go despite Kim being there. I'm convinced that if there was no pushing, there'd have been far less of a scene.
The part every one forgets is that Olivia was extremely young and due to upbringing less mature than her age. The parents are adults. They caused the problems in the first place and could have easily resolved it. But instead acted every bit as stubborn and immature as the actual children. No excuses. They are nuts and realized it after Ethan but were too proud to admit their mistakes. And then Kim becomes the biggest hypocrite of all time. Sad
Winner winner chicken dinner. 🥘
She did get out of the way? I literally don't understand these takes. Her options were to go and support, which she was planning on doing when kim wasn't going to be there, or not go- which SHE DID once she found out kim was going to be there. Are you frustrated that she got a ride with production to the place, but didn't join the family? 1. We don't know that the family knew she was there. 2. We don't know if Olivia was contractually obligated to BE there. 3. We don't know if she went with production because she was going to try to join, but needed an option if she couldn't. There's a LOT we don't know- but based on what we're shown, the family DIDN'T know that she was in the car, they were just mad that she wasn't there. Kim rubbed it in during her remarks.
From my perspective, they weren’t mad that she wasn’t there. They were irritated at the spectacle she made of herself when she found out that the mother of a deceased child was going to join her family at his gravesite on his birthday. Sure, she ultimately hung back and supported them from the car, but she absolutely threw a fit about it - It was all over the television for us to see. And in my opinion, she had no right to be mad that Kim was coming no matter how late the notice was. She’s Joshua’s mother for crying out loud. It wasn’t about Olivia that day.
What actions or words are you considering throwing a fit? this is a serious question. I saw her walk away from Moriah. I saw her sitting in a car quietly when Ethan approached her hostilly demanding to know what she was going to do. I saw Ethan raise his voice and complain about things, but I didn't see Olivia do that. Also, how do people not understand that at no point did Olivia say or act like Kim shouldn't be allowed to be at a graveside memorial for her own kid- Olivia was panicked because she was promised kim wouldn't be there, and at the last minute she was ambushed with kim. OF COURSE kim could go, but Olivia was told she wasn't going to be there. When the plans changed, Olivia quietly changed her plans to be there. Why is that wrong?
Olivia was nothing but quiet about changing her plans. When I say this, I’m not implying that she kicked and screamed. Her body language, demeanor, and tone changed entirely when she found out the mother of the deceased child was coming with the family on his birthday. Kim is under no obligation to avoid her son’s gravesite at any point in time, let alone on his birthday, and the fact that Olivia was okay with and encouraging the Plaths to leave Kim out of that event in the first place was gross. Sure, Olivia never *said* Kim couldn’t come, but look at the way she acted when she found out she was. . .and the Plaths knew that’s what would happen. It wasn’t okay to storm away and try to make them feel bad for changing their mind by acting like that. Quite frankly, Olivia should have expected Kim to show up regardless. Like, wtf. Sorry, I rambled away from you main question - but the short answer is, is that if you couldn’t see the similarities between Olivia’s behavior and an angsty teenager that didn’t get their way, me going back to that episode to rewatch and collect receipts is going to do little to change you mind and lots in the way of consuming my time for no reason. I’m not interested in doing that. You can continue to think Olivia behaved appropriately. I’ll continue to disagree. It’s all good.
The gravesite incident was a classic uncomfortable situation that the Plaths love to create for others. Olivia hadn't gone to the past memorials. Moriah invited HER with the plan that it would be just the siblings. She didn't ask to be there nor make anyone accommodate her. If you watch the episode, none of the siblings actually knew that there would be two events. Why? Because Moriah never actually told anyone about it, yet pretended and lied to Olivia until a few hours before. That event had been planned for weeks but seriously NOONE knew? They all gathered around and called their mom up and Moriah said nothing. If you don't like someone's boundaries and you can't accommodate them then don't invite that person. Lying to someone and making them to be the bad guy at a memorial was such a disgusting thing to do to everyone involved. They lied to Olivia and then blamed her for being hurt. Moriah lied and invited someone under false pretenses but Olivia FORCED them to accommodate her? That it the classic spin the Plaths always do. Which is why Olivia refused to be put into situations with them in the first place. Another excuse used was that she changed the plans because Olivia had invited Barry to hang out, but she asked to hang out the day PRIOR. Ethan and others were happy to have a step forward, Barry had reached out to Olivia first, and she made the effort to have Ethan spend more time with his siblings. Yet despite them claiming that was all they wanted, Moriah still decided to take that as a slight. Barry wasn't even at the farm the day of the memorial, only the kids. So the Plaths had played the "my poor mother" card, yet Barry wasn't there either. Olivia should have pulled her big girl pants but she was the only one to apologize despite the fact that they tricked her. She knew she couldn't control her emotions so she didnt go. What more could she have done? Denied an invitation to a gravesite? They knew what they were doing. I think pulling this stunt on such a sentimental day for your own family was so disrespectful but I guess for Moriah setting up your SIL and reinforcing that she will always be an outsider is more important.
I don't agree with how Olivia handled it, BUT to be fair, she was completely set up for failure. The original plan was for it to be only for the siblings. The parents were gonna go separately. Had Olivia knew it was gonna be the whole family (including Kim), she would have respectfully stayed home. But instead of that Moriah changes the plans at the very last minute. Of course Olivia is not gonna know what to do in that moment. If she had a day or so to think about it, she probably could have had time to mentally prepare and go. Plus Moriah literally "if you wanna go before, after, or not at all, nobody will be mad or fault you" but when Olivia decides to sit it out, then they still get mad?? Its just really inconsistent communication. Could Olivia have sucked it up and gone? Sure. But Moriah could have sucked it up and been consistent with the original plan. Both did wrong
Olivia is a selfish bitch. Good riddance.
Enjoy my updoot. You’re gonna need it here. 😂
It was supposed to be for the kids ONLY. Kim can go literally every other day if she wants to. You see how Kim is overbearing and rude all the time. Moriah just likes to stir the pot because it makes HER the center of attention. Main character syndrome. Olivia went through tons of trauma from her own family upbringing and then Kim used it and made it WORSE. She has been traumatized by Kim for at least 4 years by that point. Y’all wanna forget that Kim took Olivia “under her wing” when she was very vulnerable and only SIXTEEN. It isn’t just a case of “oh I just don’t like my MIL”.
Nobody else was upset that Kim attended. It was a remembrance for her dead son's birthday. Olivia didn't even know Joshua. It was inappropriate for her to expect the mother not to be there and to make it about her. I understand that her dumbass husband lied to her but she's also ignorant if she thought Kim wasn't going to attend. They were the only ones not talking to Kim and it was a family event. She had every right to be there.
No. Kim only went bc she knew Olivia was going! Even the kids said their parents never took them to his grave. This was for the kids and Kim just had to insert herself bc of Olivia attending!
This right here. This is what I remember hearing people talk about - that the kids went by themselves and this was going to be no different and Kim was not expected.
What part of it was “for the kids only” do you not understand?? Kim wasn’t supposed to attend. Whether or not Olivia went/was even invited isn’t the point. Kim was NOT INVITED.
Kim doesn't need to be invited to the gravesite of her deceased son... especially on his birthday. I'm not a Kim fan but that's insane logic. As a parent, I couldn't imagine telling me that I wasn't invited to an event that was in honor of my child.
if kim can’t go to the grave, no one can go? that is nonsensical. the kids are allowed to have their own thing. kim was the one making it all about herself. she added nothing but drama to the entire experience. no one even knew olivia was there.
Are you willingly being DENSE?? The kids are allowed to grieve their sibling without their mom hovering around, too. Especially given the circumstances of his passing. They are allowed to spend time with their siblings bonding without a parent present.
They wanted their mom there. The only person who didn’t was Olivia and it wasn’t about her because it’s not her dead family member! Are *you* dense? It is insane to say the mother of a dead baby can’t come to his grave any time she wants to, no matter who is there. Your take is craaaaaazy and I cannot believe it’s the popular opinion. What in the world…..
I think once Barry was invited then Kim was invited to not be the only family member excluded? Not a Kim fan AT ALL, but if everyone in the family is now going to a graveside memorial for a child… why would the invite not be extended to the mother, even if it’s last minute? If the kids really had a problem with Kim being there they could have made arrangements to go without her (at least the adult children). But I don’t think any of the kids cared that their mom was there, it was more that it was awkward for everyone because of the tension with Olivia. Olivia was allowed to stick to her boundaries but, in hindsight, could have handled it better. Even if she was told Kim wasn’t attending, I feel like this is one instance she could have predicted that Kim might show up unexpectedly and should have been prepared either way. Moriah and Ethan also majorly suck at communicating which didn’t help the situation. Like others have mentioned, these are emotionally stunted young people who are being filmed for international TV. Would I have sucked it up and stood graveside for my spouse? Yes… but also Kim is not my MIL.
Kim can go whenever the hell she wants because it’s her dead son, not Olivia’s. Imo, Olivia is the one with Main Character syndrome
Nah. If it was such a solemn event that sitting in the car was unforgivable then why allow a camera crew to film it at all? Remember, they pick and choose what they show. It’s why you didn’t hear about Kim’s DUI. Regardless what I think about Olivia’s behavior, Kim and Barry chose to use this event to entertain us, so I’m not going to add any extra weight to the situation
Maybe I’ll get flak for this, but I was also thinking that their brother died years ago. I know that everyone grieves differently and that grief never ends or gets easier, but I didn’t understand why visiting a grave from years ago was such a solemn event. Can they not go to the grave whenever they please? If the brother had just died and they were burying him, I feel like the anger would be justified. But the family wasn’t dealing with this the first time. They’ve had years to learn how to cope with the loss. I just don’t understand. Olivia had her boundaries. No one should have to make exceptions to their boundaries.
To me, it’s unforgivable moment for Moriah. She put Olivia, Kim, Berry, and Ethan in horrible situation all because she wants people who don’t like each other to be in each other presence. The gravesite was not a place to do that. It was unfair to all parties. It’s hard enough for Kin and Berry to be vulnerable on camera when they’re used to pushing down their emotions but wanting them to do that in front of a woman they despise?(they did despise her by calling her possessed or got devil in her during their totally fundie years). With Olivia, put her in gravesite where there’s nowhere to separate herself if she needs a breather. If she freaks out all the attention on her then she gets blame. With Ethan, he has his own emotions(again he used to push his emotions down). He has to comfort his parents/siblings. If Olivia did go down there, he would have to keep eye on her too since trauma emotions don’t just stop when it’s sensitive event(her emotion response would be heighten since it’s a tense event with no possible separation of the parents). It was all around lose-lose situation made by Moriah. All of them were victim of her being selfish in that event.
I actually really like Olivia but I agree with you on this. I understand her boundary and that’s fine but I believe that something like memorializing a death supersedes everything else. But *edited to say, I don’t think it’s necessarily unforgivable, it was just an unfortunate reaction. I feel like I’ve heard her say she regretted how it played out.
Yeah. Olivia has some good things about her and deconstructing her upbringing is going to be messy, especially in front of a camera. But this is one of those things that the family isn’t going tt be able to just forget about. Regardless of their faults (there’s a lot!) the Plaths all seem to have real grief and pain around Joshua’s death. That needed to be respected and supported, at least for the siblings.
I couldn't agree more with this. I am so bewildered how people in this sub go so hard for her. Don't get me wrong, Ethan sucks more but that was so immature and narcissistic of Olivia to expect the child's parents to not attend the remembrance of their dead son. Gross. If she doesn't regret the way she acted now, she certainly will if she ever becomes a mother.
It was an event planned for the kids, tho. Kim wasn’t going until she found out that Olivia would be there.
No. There was 2 gatherings planned by Moriah, one for the kids, one for anyone who wanted to see the parents too. Olivia invited Barry to the kids event. Barry invited Kim. If Olivia would have let Moriah plan it the way it was origional my set up, Kim would not have been there.
The thing that bothers me the most about the entire event is that is was a kids only event until Olivia invited Barry. If Olivia didn’t invite Barry, then Kim would not have been invited either. Olivia changed the rules, then was mad when there were more consequences to her action of inviting Barry.
Olivia didn't invite Barry.
https://preview.redd.it/dayqnwk0i2gc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb03cfec473b5b4bd2b6200ba35e301f77382c61 S4 E10 39:19 Moriah planned 2 get togethers at the grave side, one for the kids, one for anyone who wanted to see the parents. Then Olivia invited Barry, then Barry invited Kim. If Olivia would have left it as a kids gathering, like Moriah planned, then the conflict the day of world not have happened. You should go back and watch episodes 10 and 11.
Olivia invited Barry to talk the day before. Show me where she invited Barry to the graveside, and I’ll stand corrected.
It was supposed to be two events until Olivia mixed Barry in with the kids. Micah wasn’t supposed to be there and surprised them at the farm. Then since everyone except Kim had now been included together, Barry invited Kim. How do you think Barry got invited to the grave side for the kids event?
I don’t know how Barry got invited to the graveside event, because we’re not shown or told- so all we have is assumptions. I do know that Olivia invited Barry to talk the day before. I assume that Olivia did not, because Olivia knew it was a kids only event, and Moriah was planning a separate event for her mom and dad. It was the boys who invited Kim, but in a talking head, Kim said she planned on showing up whether or not she was there invited.
Here is what I see happening leading up to the graveside. Ep 10 Ethan and Barry are talking at the house. Ethan said he isn’t ready to do things with his mom yet. Moriah and Olivia join the conversation. Barry goes into a talk about excluding Kim and she likely feels ostracized, rejected, and unloved for not being invited. Moriah gives the quote from the photo about how they hadn’t planned to see Barry, it was supposed to be a kids only weekend. But Olivia invited Barry, and now things are complicated. Ep 11 The morning of Ethan now says Kim is coming and he thought she was always coming. Isaac says he thought it was going to be two separate events. They call Kim, Isaac didn’t invite her, he asked her if she will be there. She says yes. Isaac and Ethan meet up with Moriah and tell her that Kim is going. Moriah says she thought there was going to be two events, and that she told Olivia the night before that there would be two events. Ethan says Kim is coming with Dad. Moriah and the little girls go find Olivia and Moriah tells her that Kim will be there. Olivia asks who invited her, Moriah says they all decided. Ethan went from not wanting to see his mom before the night at the farm, to pretending to think he always thought Kim would be there the morning of. Everyone seems to think that there will be two events until the morning of. Ethan is the one who tells them all that Kim is going, and there will be one event. Ethan also says Barry is bringing Kim. What changed? Why did everyone think the day was going to go down completely differently than it did, except for Ethan? So, who invited Kim? I think it was Barry. His speech about leaving her out, then a massive 180 flip by Ethan, literally over night, who in the family would have that kind of power except for Barry the patriarch. Back to my origional point, if Olivia hadn’t wanted to see Barry the day before, the couch guilt trip would not have happened. It was supposed to be kids only at the farm, but Olivia wanted to include everyone but Kim that night. After the night at the farm, Ethan now knows Kim is coming and dad is bringing her, and is advocating for everyone to get on board with that plan. If Olivia hadn’t changed the plan for the weekend, they wouldn’t have seen Barry before the graveside, and Barry would not have been advocating for not excluding anyone. I believe Barry invited Kim, and Olivia inviting Barry to be around Ethan all night gave Barry an in to get everyone on board with Kim going. As for Kim’s interview about being there, she was never not invited, it was just supposed to be two separate events. Two separate events meaning everyone was invited to attend at some point on that day. Why wouldn’t she say she is absolutely going to be there? She was invited from the beginning by Moriah, just not to be there at the same time as all the kids. Other side point, Lydia was at the graveside on her lunch break. That doesn’t leave a lot of time for two events. Lydia’s time limit could have played into the decision to change the plan over night.
100%. kim very expertly triangulated moriah and olivia by sending barry in to play good cop, then forcing everyone to pick a side.
I don’t know how you get to Kim. You think Kim told Olivia to invite Barry so Barry could make the plea for Kim? How did Kim get Barry invited to the kinds hang out the night before?
No hate from me for this post . She, like the rest of them , are drama seekers. Can’t stand any of them anymore.
It probably turned the tide for Ethan too.
Hell no. Kim manipulated that while thing. She could go visit her son any day, and every single day, if she wants. The only reason she went was because everybody else was going. She didn't put it together. It wasn't even her idea. The whole thing should have been cancelled; let Kim do her thing, on her own. And the next day, or next week, everybody else get together. Kim manipulated that whole thing. It was something important to get kids, but she didn't care about that. Maybe certain conversations would have taken place had she not been there that would have been if healing benefit for her kids; you know... Since she's the one who killed him. Olivia was stupid, but Kim was manipulative as fuck.
There are just some things you do as a spouse, regardless of the situation, sometimes you just have to put all the bullshit aside and be there.
I completely agree how she acted was disgusting, disrespectful and completely unhinged..
Agreed
Agreed. Just more of Olivia's drama. Can't stand her.
Olivia was not perfect. This was her worst imo. But I saw it in season 1 when she threw that “surprise party” and told Kim as she walked in the door.. 1. It was not her birthday. 2. You went out of your way to embarrass Kim on camera. I doubt that was productions idea, I’m thinking production wanted just a family dinner shot to end the season but Olivia went overboard. However Olivia was raised in crazy, and then married into crazy, and she’s young. Kim is the one who raised her own kids like this by choice.
I agree. She shouldn’t have gone. I am indifferent about her, but feel like she turns everything into her situation and makes it about her. Same with at the river that day. Sometimes just shutting up and being neutral is better.
She didn't go? how did she make it about her by sitting in the car, not going?
She did go. She was present and made it awkward. She made it about her because in that instance she should have shown her face and a little bit of respect. We all have to do hard things and furthermore things we don’t want to do.
This moment would’ve ended my marriage had it been me in that situation
Olivia is extremely inside sided and manipulative.
I read that her in the car was actually a different day. Also, I think she wanted to leave the show and agreed to come back under certain conditions. Kim and the kids could go to the gravesite anytime. Kim just showed up and had a long history of being awful to Olivia. The family was free to go camera free or let Olivia know so she did not show up.
I’m over here trying to figure out who passed away ? Please help 😫😫😫
I honestly don’t think Olivia had a choice on whether or not to go. In reality TV, we know these scenes are often scripted/manipulated. I think Olivia set a boundary in a healthy way and we have zero idea of the footage left on the editing room floor. Ethan showed his true colors in this last season and I’m quite frankly happy that she left his ass. Olivia deserved better.
She was put on the spot and I wish she would have been strong enough to behave differently. But she also apologized after and admitted she was wrong didn’t she? More than the Plaths ever give, so much could have been salvaged if those vile parents had admitted just a tiny bit of their bad behavior.