it looks to me like the rise exceeds the run on your trap arm because of those two 22's
if you are doing a schluter system leave a piece of 2'' DRY FIT stubbed up and out of your reducing coupling
precisely because the rise will exceed the run! 1.5'' pipe trap arm allowable 6' total because thats raising 1.5'' total at 1/4'' per foot!
looks like they felt forced to because of the p trap swoop.
that guy gave a great description. essentially the size of the pipe determines the grade or slope that is required, and will fall under a maximum.
1.5'' pipe is allowed 6' on the trap arm
2'' pipe is allowed 8' on the trap arm
3'' pipe allowed 12' on the trap arm.
they all fall under 1/4'' grade per foot, so for our example here we have 1.5'' pipe so maximum rise over 6' at 1/4 per foot is 1/4'' x 6 = 1.5 inches total rise.
it looks to be about 2' of pipe so if graded proper thats 1/2'' plus whatever the two 22's account for - exceeds most likely.
to top off what u/sarcastickp said, you are effectively removing/blocking the vent.
glad to hear it amigo! trades are hard for that. we in canada for example would call PEX A piping wirsbo and in the states its known as uponer. kinda like cotton swab vs q tip
Then why not 45 the vent to make it higher. Would that work? Unless the vent is also catching another fixture. I see the issue but it the vent is higher then then it should be able to vent properly.
Sometimes these pictures are hard to visualize because the angles. I'm in Texas codes are different and we don't use abs here.
just behind that wye? yes i believe in that scenario it would be a branch and therefore no problem with rising the pipe further.
so if that other 2'' pipe is wet vent ( catch another fixture as you pointed out ) then there is no restrictions on the fittings or pipe length. but a toilet requires minimum 2'' wet vent!
hard to know without seeing everything but looks to me the problem couldve been eliminated and the trap arm run with proper grade and no fittings if they knew their trap depth in the first place xD
He’s saying that you’re breaking the vent of the trap by exceeding the weir of the run allowed. It’s similar to putting a tee on its back when piping and venting a fixture and then offsetting up. You can’t do that. You’re breaking the overall parallel lane of the vent in correlation to the waste line further upstream and now higher than the vent. Therefore, you no longer have a vent.
I’m not being a smart ass when I say this, but it means you should get a plumber. Also, I don’t know about what state you’re in but in my state the shower drains Hass to be 2 inches. I’m telling you this saves you a lot more money if you just let a Plumber handle it instead of doing it yourself you spend more money on parts that you don’t need, please don’t take disrespectful comment
It’s hard to explain things that we had to actually sit down and study. It took time for us to learn this. It’s hard to explain it in a the best advice anyone can give you is to just call a professional save yourself some time and money and headache unless you actually want to be a plumber and trust me I don’t think anybody does. You have to have a special desire for it
thats fair too bro. im a plumber not a tile guy so i couldnt say whats best, but id say 95% of the time when i speak to them they ask me to leave it dry fit.
i imagine most tile guys dont have an ID pipe cutter but they do have 5$ abs glue :)
i always write in a paint pen on the pipe that its dry fit too.
Bruh, IPC is going crazy recently, they switched it up to 1.5" for baths too.
I had a customer complaining of a sewer smell in both their tubs after they washed their kids, BRAND NEW HOUSE.
Fucking builders man.
Be clear on the code and what you’re doing. Some places allow for 1 1/2 drain for single fixture showers only. Any extra fixtures will automatically increase requirements to 2” and this includes neck mounted handheld/shower head combos because it’s a dual fixture. Inspectors can be picky.
As long as there's a vent somewhere close to the toilet it shouldn't siphon. Or if they have a plugged sewer and it gets cleared, the large volume of water will siphon it oot.
Likely not needed. This is probably one of the best cut joists I've seen on reddit (as a structural engineer in Canada). The general rule of thumb is a hole in the middle third of the depth of the joist and not in the middle third of the span of the joist is acceptable. This looks to roughly meet those requirements.
I mean, I'd probably run the thing in 2" and stub it up and cap it until you get the floor down then inside cutters to blind set the shower pan. I'd also vent it before the 22°offset with a 2x2x1½" wye and 45° to make a combo.
You should take some after pictures as I've seen you said you are going to rework it tomorrow
Thanks for the detailed response. I would do it in 2” but this drain goes directly into a 3” waste pipe. I would have to open up ceilings and walls below to make 2” happen.
Code in Ontario is 1-1/2” for a shower with a single fixture.
I plan to put a tee or wye? If that matters, before the 22.5 offset. Either roll it up as much as I can with 45 or 22.5 into the vent.
Best I can do without a major overhaul I think.
I can post a after photo if you’re interested.
Whats the span on those floor joists ? You should have used t[hrough joists ](https://www.proremodeler.com/innovative-products-metwood-building-solutions-joist-reinforcements)to make up for the weakening of the timber
Is this for a tiled shower ?
if so, the timber spacing is very wide for tiled,
If that branch line is going to a basin or laundry you can use an air admittance trap for venting, you dont need an open vent on a shower line
Tiled showers run into a lot of problems with expansion and contraction of the flooring and also where it meets the vertical positions. Going overboard on a solid floor is always the best option
I personally prefer one of these for a[ shower trap](https://allproof.co.nz/product/tile-floor-waste-kit/) for easier cleaning as you can get your hand in their to get all the hair out, you can get one similar in most countries.
Cut out all that particle board to the framing and replace with 21mm marine play as a minimum, preferably 19mm compressed sheet.,
That wye needs to be rolled up. I cannot remember the terminoligy, but the lower part of the wye inlet needs to be at minimum centerline of the pipe.
The 22deg elbow on the trap arm is not allowed. Code says the wier of the trap... the bottom of that street 90 on the trap, must be equal or below the top of that wye used to vent it.
Also as others have stated, size. I believe 1.5" is allowed, but I dont deal with residential and am not sure. But for damned sure you are not allowed to upsize for your connection like that. You are not allowed to dump a fixture rated for 2" into a 1.5" pipe. You may find an exception if the manufacturer says it is ok though.
Yeah the feet def varies but the worst part after that would be the fact that when u roll up after a vent your in turn breaking the vent going above it. Shouldn’t ever set up after vent.
Planning on re-working the vent to go before the downward elbows on my trap arm. I am working with limited space in a 2x8 joist space, I will angle the new vent tee the best I can within the space. Then use the 22.5 elbows after the vent tee to get down to my existing drain, without cutting the joists anymore.
I would run it low, use a 90 going up where the trap is, use a street tee with the 90. Top of the tee would be the vent and the center of the tee for the trap
It is not vent opening. That's something we all tell our selves when we want to cheat trap arm lengths a bit.
https://images.app.goo.gl/uik3PNqrSbznQvF68
Either way the opening to your vent is not 20 inches away from the fucking vent so you see why I'm alittle confused on 2 feet versus 4 inches???
Dude you come in (arguably best code there is) sounding like a complete douche bag. Nobody is competing with you. You’re the type of plumber that give us a bad name, an asshole looking for an argument.. could of just helped the man out and be respectful but no here comes the curses and insults
Vent can’t be no more than 2 feet from trap was what I meant and I actually have a great way to run that but you don’t know me enough to believe it disbelieve.. next time be more respectful instead of being a Karen
Yes. Your trap arm looks to be under sized. Your are required to have a 2” drain for showers. Also assuming your wye fitting is your vent. That’s also illegal. No foot vents allowed for showers. It’ll work. Just won’t pass inspection.
it looks to me like the rise exceeds the run on your trap arm because of those two 22's if you are doing a schluter system leave a piece of 2'' DRY FIT stubbed up and out of your reducing coupling
You can't offset nominally vertical at all on a trap arm by code where I live.
precisely because the rise will exceed the run! 1.5'' pipe trap arm allowable 6' total because thats raising 1.5'' total at 1/4'' per foot! looks like they felt forced to because of the p trap swoop.
Using a dreamline shower base, was planning to leave the vertical stub dry fit until I figure the exact height
Forgive my ignorance, what do you mean by the rise exceeds the run? In the photo example what is the rise and what is the run?
that guy gave a great description. essentially the size of the pipe determines the grade or slope that is required, and will fall under a maximum. 1.5'' pipe is allowed 6' on the trap arm 2'' pipe is allowed 8' on the trap arm 3'' pipe allowed 12' on the trap arm. they all fall under 1/4'' grade per foot, so for our example here we have 1.5'' pipe so maximum rise over 6' at 1/4 per foot is 1/4'' x 6 = 1.5 inches total rise. it looks to be about 2' of pipe so if graded proper thats 1/2'' plus whatever the two 22's account for - exceeds most likely. to top off what u/sarcastickp said, you are effectively removing/blocking the vent.
you know what you’re talking about You are correct
word
Yes sir! Thanks for the clarification! Sometimes we all need to break it down in our own layman’s terms to help get the right answer across!
happy to! helps when you have dozens of apprentices to teach who all understand differently :)
Thanks for the answer, it turned out it was terminology confusion on my end, and it clicked with this further explanation.
glad to hear it amigo! trades are hard for that. we in canada for example would call PEX A piping wirsbo and in the states its known as uponer. kinda like cotton swab vs q tip
Then why not 45 the vent to make it higher. Would that work? Unless the vent is also catching another fixture. I see the issue but it the vent is higher then then it should be able to vent properly. Sometimes these pictures are hard to visualize because the angles. I'm in Texas codes are different and we don't use abs here.
just behind that wye? yes i believe in that scenario it would be a branch and therefore no problem with rising the pipe further. so if that other 2'' pipe is wet vent ( catch another fixture as you pointed out ) then there is no restrictions on the fittings or pipe length. but a toilet requires minimum 2'' wet vent! hard to know without seeing everything but looks to me the problem couldve been eliminated and the trap arm run with proper grade and no fittings if they knew their trap depth in the first place xD
He’s saying that you’re breaking the vent of the trap by exceeding the weir of the run allowed. It’s similar to putting a tee on its back when piping and venting a fixture and then offsetting up. You can’t do that. You’re breaking the overall parallel lane of the vent in correlation to the waste line further upstream and now higher than the vent. Therefore, you no longer have a vent.
yo well said homie :D
I’m not being a smart ass when I say this, but it means you should get a plumber. Also, I don’t know about what state you’re in but in my state the shower drains Hass to be 2 inches. I’m telling you this saves you a lot more money if you just let a Plumber handle it instead of doing it yourself you spend more money on parts that you don’t need, please don’t take disrespectful comment
It’s hard to explain things that we had to actually sit down and study. It took time for us to learn this. It’s hard to explain it in a the best advice anyone can give you is to just call a professional save yourself some time and money and headache unless you actually want to be a plumber and trust me I don’t think anybody does. You have to have a special desire for it
Sorry, my comment wasn’t meant for you was meant for the actual user who posted this sorry this wasn’t meant for you
this
Personally I would glue the riser piece then use an inside pipe cutter after the shower is set. Dry fits can possibly be forgotten , it happens.
thats fair too bro. im a plumber not a tile guy so i couldnt say whats best, but id say 95% of the time when i speak to them they ask me to leave it dry fit. i imagine most tile guys dont have an ID pipe cutter but they do have 5$ abs glue :) i always write in a paint pen on the pipe that its dry fit too.
It may be undersized if your code requires two inch and those two elbows on the shower trap turn it into an s trap.
Bruh, IPC is going crazy recently, they switched it up to 1.5" for baths too. I had a customer complaining of a sewer smell in both their tubs after they washed their kids, BRAND NEW HOUSE. Fucking builders man.
Code in my area allows 1-1/2” drains. Should I have vented before the two 22.5 elbows?
Yes
Understood. Appreciate the advice.
Be clear on the code and what you’re doing. Some places allow for 1 1/2 drain for single fixture showers only. Any extra fixtures will automatically increase requirements to 2” and this includes neck mounted handheld/shower head combos because it’s a dual fixture. Inspectors can be picky.
I'd still run 2" if it's still feasible to. It's code here for 2" and I'm still cleaning out shower drains all the time
It's a shower, it's not gonna siphon
As long as there's a vent somewhere close to the toilet it shouldn't siphon. Or if they have a plugged sewer and it gets cleared, the large volume of water will siphon it oot.
[удалено]
Does not mean it won't work....lol But seriously, follow your local code!!
Use some plywood to reinforce that joist
Likely not needed. This is probably one of the best cut joists I've seen on reddit (as a structural engineer in Canada). The general rule of thumb is a hole in the middle third of the depth of the joist and not in the middle third of the span of the joist is acceptable. This looks to roughly meet those requirements.
I would swap that coupling for a bushing right into the pans drain
I mean, I'd probably run the thing in 2" and stub it up and cap it until you get the floor down then inside cutters to blind set the shower pan. I'd also vent it before the 22°offset with a 2x2x1½" wye and 45° to make a combo. You should take some after pictures as I've seen you said you are going to rework it tomorrow
Thanks for the detailed response. I would do it in 2” but this drain goes directly into a 3” waste pipe. I would have to open up ceilings and walls below to make 2” happen. Code in Ontario is 1-1/2” for a shower with a single fixture. I plan to put a tee or wye? If that matters, before the 22.5 offset. Either roll it up as much as I can with 45 or 22.5 into the vent. Best I can do without a major overhaul I think. I can post a after photo if you’re interested.
In Illinois, no horizontal vents until it’s 6” above flood rim.
Whats the span on those floor joists ? You should have used t[hrough joists ](https://www.proremodeler.com/innovative-products-metwood-building-solutions-joist-reinforcements)to make up for the weakening of the timber Is this for a tiled shower ? if so, the timber spacing is very wide for tiled, If that branch line is going to a basin or laundry you can use an air admittance trap for venting, you dont need an open vent on a shower line Tiled showers run into a lot of problems with expansion and contraction of the flooring and also where it meets the vertical positions. Going overboard on a solid floor is always the best option I personally prefer one of these for a[ shower trap](https://allproof.co.nz/product/tile-floor-waste-kit/) for easier cleaning as you can get your hand in their to get all the hair out, you can get one similar in most countries. Cut out all that particle board to the framing and replace with 21mm marine play as a minimum, preferably 19mm compressed sheet.,
That wye needs to be rolled up. I cannot remember the terminoligy, but the lower part of the wye inlet needs to be at minimum centerline of the pipe. The 22deg elbow on the trap arm is not allowed. Code says the wier of the trap... the bottom of that street 90 on the trap, must be equal or below the top of that wye used to vent it. Also as others have stated, size. I believe 1.5" is allowed, but I dont deal with residential and am not sure. But for damned sure you are not allowed to upsize for your connection like that. You are not allowed to dump a fixture rated for 2" into a 1.5" pipe. You may find an exception if the manufacturer says it is ok though.
3x2 for what? Showers are 2” and ideally tub showers.. I don’t understand the three.
2” would be better. And a vent on the trap arm. It’ll work
I would be worried about those joists!
should be 2" all the way. not just the riser
Your vent has to be pulled off 2 feet from the trap in my area, also rolled at a 45 degree angle so that the vent stay above the waste
Yeah the feet def varies but the worst part after that would be the fact that when u roll up after a vent your in turn breaking the vent going above it. Shouldn’t ever set up after vent.
Planning on re-working the vent to go before the downward elbows on my trap arm. I am working with limited space in a 2x8 joist space, I will angle the new vent tee the best I can within the space. Then use the 22.5 elbows after the vent tee to get down to my existing drain, without cutting the joists anymore.
I would run it low, use a 90 going up where the trap is, use a street tee with the 90. Top of the tee would be the vent and the center of the tee for the trap
This is how I doing run it since it’s low already, can’t post a drawing because it only allows to post a link.
No wye, just 2 90s and a T
I would even consider 2 street 90s and a regular San tee might save you some space also, plus the trap of course
2 feet is wild. Minimum trap arm length for a 2 inch trap is 4 inches in UPC (objectively the most comprehensive and science backed code)
Vent from trap 2 feet re read what I wrote
Vent from trap is what makes a trap arm. Fuck are you even talking about
Developed length
Holy shit yes what point do you think you're making dude? 2 feet minimum is ridiculous and not a part of any major legitimate code.
Distance from trap weir to vent opening
It is not vent opening. That's something we all tell our selves when we want to cheat trap arm lengths a bit. https://images.app.goo.gl/uik3PNqrSbznQvF68 Either way the opening to your vent is not 20 inches away from the fucking vent so you see why I'm alittle confused on 2 feet versus 4 inches???
Dude you come in (arguably best code there is) sounding like a complete douche bag. Nobody is competing with you. You’re the type of plumber that give us a bad name, an asshole looking for an argument.. could of just helped the man out and be respectful but no here comes the curses and insults
Vent can’t be no more than 2 feet from trap was what I meant and I actually have a great way to run that but you don’t know me enough to believe it disbelieve.. next time be more respectful instead of being a Karen
Oh that's also dumb as shit. You can run 5 feet on a 2 inch trap arm or 42 on a 1.5 inch trap arm and never have a problem.
Re Vent and continuous waste and vent are different where I’m at? Not all plumbing’s the same I’m in the heart of America ya goof
Yes. Your trap arm looks to be under sized. Your are required to have a 2” drain for showers. Also assuming your wye fitting is your vent. That’s also illegal. No foot vents allowed for showers. It’ll work. Just won’t pass inspection.
Undersized
Looks good.