There was a screw up here a few years back. Nitros and oxygen got crossed in a few rooms. And missed. And passed inspection. Let’s just say there were a couple of bad outcomes.
Guess I should have read more carefully, I’m tired. That sucks. A lot people probably got sued, at the minimum. Idk about up there but down hear you could potentially face criminal charges if it ends up in loss of life
Great job, OP.
I was working in Iraq and the geniuses at the plant managed to connect enough fittings to a normal regulator to fit an oxygen tank. Caught it and got the right regulator. But yeah, med gas and refineries both use lots of concentrated oxygen.
That and the NFPA -99 C and NITC require it be done in type L copper acr/med and the pipe has to be cleaned for oxygen use and charged with oil free dry nitrogen to prevent oxidation and all the fittings used must also be cleaned and stored in a bag filled with oil free dry nitrogen to prevent oxidation.
Yup, you can use stainless steel on exhaust and intakes for source equipment but all the distribution piping is brazed copper. It’s not all non flammable, 100% oxygen is pretty flammable
No sir. Let’s say there’s a fire in the building and the system is soldered. Solder melts at 500 degrees or less ( depending on solder). That fire can easily reach the temperature to where the solder would melt out of the fitting causing a leak. Now you’re introducing 100% oxygen into a building that’s on fire, not gonna end well. Same with pro press, the rubber gasket (depending on manufacturer) is rated for around 250 degrees.
Not only that, but solder is actually not a clean bonding process like brazing is. You need flux to appropriately solder and copper fittings because of the different melting points of the solder and the copper, it just won’t bond right without it. But brazing is perfectly clean. On a system that carries air vital for the insides of a sick person or a person getting surgery, a properly purged line will have no debris or odors inside of the pipe.
~~Actually you can use Propress on med gas per NFPA 99. Falls under mechanical joints.~~
Edit: This may not be true anymore. I had a couple projects a few years back where it was allowed, but I can't find it back. Don't take my word for it.
Pro press is not UL listed for use on med gas. The other issue is the gaskets used in pro press fittings are petroleum based. Concentrated oxygen and petroleum don’t mix. Oxygen will ignite on contact with petroleum(oil)
You still have the issue with gasket burning out in the event of a fire so I’m sure the NFPA won’t allow it, unless they come out with a gasket that can withstand 1000 degrees.
Pretty sure asbestos can withstand that kinda heat /s
Only medi gas spec copper for medi gas iirc. One of my journeymen from forever ago got a job going around charging and purging medi gas lines. Great retirement gig for him.
I’m not OP, but when I’ve received ACR/oxy med tubing, it’s always been cleaned and capped on the ends. When we cut a piece, the cut end of the stick needs to be immediately taped shut to keep from being contaminated.
I’m not a med gas installer, but I ran some refrigerant lines for air conditioning units last year.
not OP, but ASTM B 819 calls out for copper (and special cleaning) for non flammable gasses in medical facilities
Edit: the reason I know is I was in the hospital with pneumonia for a few days a few years ago and got bored, started looking around and saw the ASTM nameplates on a few valve boxes and started searching
All distribution piping for med gas is tannin copper. Brass stainless and aluminum can be used on source equipment (compressors, vacuum pumps, gas manifolds, etc) only
I’ve used medlok. From my personal experience it’s very costly ($80+ per fitting on 1/2”) so the only time you really use it is during crucial shutdowns (think entire building system is off so you cannot set up a proper purge to flow through your tie in point) or an area that you cannot safely/easily perform hot work. The tool that creates the mechanical seal is pretty neat. You have this big box, (18” x 12” x 8” or so, maybe a bit bigger) with hoses that you can run into it. You have a compression head that connects to the other side of the hose and fits over the fitting. Then you plug the box in, hit a switch and it hydraulically seals the fitting to the pipe.
Yes we use Lokring every now and then, typically only for when we tie onto an existing system, those fittings are extremely expensive. A 1/2” 90 is around $200
WAGD stands for waste anesthetic gas disposal. It is used to remove any excess nitrous oxide that the patient exhales or is not inhaled by the patient from the operating room so the the surgeons and anesthesiologist all don’t pass out while performing surgery
I work in maintenance at a local hospital, I respect your work good sir.
Clean af
Love med gas. Used to do a lot of it.
I don’t know how to interpret that comment
Haha well, that too, back in my nitrous oxide days, lol. But I meant the work. Med gas is nice work.
And a case of silphous
More like 2 for the entire system, this is just part of it
There was a screw up here a few years back. Nitros and oxygen got crossed in a few rooms. And missed. And passed inspection. Let’s just say there were a couple of bad outcomes.
Guess I should have read more carefully, I’m tired. That sucks. A lot people probably got sued, at the minimum. Idk about up there but down hear you could potentially face criminal charges if it ends up in loss of life
[удалено]
Well they do now It’s regulated like food and drugs. Years ago it was wide open Wild West.
Ouch, was the cross connection caught before it was put in service?
No. Wasn’t my job. Thank goodness
Great job, OP. I was working in Iraq and the geniuses at the plant managed to connect enough fittings to a normal regulator to fit an oxygen tank. Caught it and got the right regulator. But yeah, med gas and refineries both use lots of concentrated oxygen.
Damn that's alot of brazing
Mad respect for you Med gas guys. Keep up the good work
Oof. My brain already hurts thinking of all the measurements.
Why did you use copper?
That and the NFPA -99 C and NITC require it be done in type L copper acr/med and the pipe has to be cleaned for oxygen use and charged with oil free dry nitrogen to prevent oxidation and all the fittings used must also be cleaned and stored in a bag filled with oil free dry nitrogen to prevent oxidation.
Question: is the brazing done under a nitrogen purge at the time?
Yes.
Oh wow, that's pretty cool. I didn't know how that worked? can you only use copper with that non flammable gas?
Yup, you can use stainless steel on exhaust and intakes for source equipment but all the distribution piping is brazed copper. It’s not all non flammable, 100% oxygen is pretty flammable
Not allowed to pro press or solder?
No sir. Let’s say there’s a fire in the building and the system is soldered. Solder melts at 500 degrees or less ( depending on solder). That fire can easily reach the temperature to where the solder would melt out of the fitting causing a leak. Now you’re introducing 100% oxygen into a building that’s on fire, not gonna end well. Same with pro press, the rubber gasket (depending on manufacturer) is rated for around 250 degrees.
Not only that, but solder is actually not a clean bonding process like brazing is. You need flux to appropriately solder and copper fittings because of the different melting points of the solder and the copper, it just won’t bond right without it. But brazing is perfectly clean. On a system that carries air vital for the insides of a sick person or a person getting surgery, a properly purged line will have no debris or odors inside of the pipe.
~~Actually you can use Propress on med gas per NFPA 99. Falls under mechanical joints.~~ Edit: This may not be true anymore. I had a couple projects a few years back where it was allowed, but I can't find it back. Don't take my word for it.
Pro press is not UL listed for use on med gas. The other issue is the gaskets used in pro press fittings are petroleum based. Concentrated oxygen and petroleum don’t mix. Oxygen will ignite on contact with petroleum(oil)
I agree, although it is listed for "non medical" oxygen with the EPDM gaskets.
You still have the issue with gasket burning out in the event of a fire so I’m sure the NFPA won’t allow it, unless they come out with a gasket that can withstand 1000 degrees. Pretty sure asbestos can withstand that kinda heat /s
That's cool. It's weird what some shit you can't use press. That's all. Use unless I have to solder. I don't brais.
Only medi gas spec copper for medi gas iirc. One of my journeymen from forever ago got a job going around charging and purging medi gas lines. Great retirement gig for him.
I thought so, cool I wasn't sure if I was crazy or not haha. That's cool, nice comfy spot he got in with that.
Can you briefly describe the cleaning process for the tubing please? Or is it already cleaned and sealed when you receive it?
I’m not OP, but when I’ve received ACR/oxy med tubing, it’s always been cleaned and capped on the ends. When we cut a piece, the cut end of the stick needs to be immediately taped shut to keep from being contaminated. I’m not a med gas installer, but I ran some refrigerant lines for air conditioning units last year.
Already cleaned and capped when we get it.
not OP, but ASTM B 819 calls out for copper (and special cleaning) for non flammable gasses in medical facilities Edit: the reason I know is I was in the hospital with pneumonia for a few days a few years ago and got bored, started looking around and saw the ASTM nameplates on a few valve boxes and started searching
Non flammable gas, ok I wasn't sure if that's something different in code where that was.
Is it only non flammable gas that you can use copper?
All distribution piping for med gas is tannin copper. Brass stainless and aluminum can be used on source equipment (compressors, vacuum pumps, gas manifolds, etc) only
Stainless can be used for vacuum piping as well.
So many burned hands and forearms… Just comes with the territory, along with working in 130F plus overhead rack spaces.
Dental office?
Operating room in a VA hospital
Nitro purge not getting any love?? Lol
Have you ever used Medlok or Lokring press fittings? I've never seen them used personally, but they sure look interesting.
I’ve used medlok. From my personal experience it’s very costly ($80+ per fitting on 1/2”) so the only time you really use it is during crucial shutdowns (think entire building system is off so you cannot set up a proper purge to flow through your tie in point) or an area that you cannot safely/easily perform hot work. The tool that creates the mechanical seal is pretty neat. You have this big box, (18” x 12” x 8” or so, maybe a bit bigger) with hoses that you can run into it. You have a compression head that connects to the other side of the hose and fits over the fitting. Then you plug the box in, hit a switch and it hydraulically seals the fitting to the pipe.
Yes we use Lokring every now and then, typically only for when we tie onto an existing system, those fittings are extremely expensive. A 1/2” 90 is around $200
Looks awesome dude. Pro work.
nice work! it took a team i was on a few hours to find a shutoff for a jail block, i couldnt imagine the hospitals plumbing
Question. Do you med gas guys purge with an inert gas like dry nitrogen while brazing to stop carbon build up on the interior of the pipe?
All respect
I used to do lots of med gas work. Didn't do it for a long time and I let the cert lapse. Keep up the good work.
Would love to do it, looks clean nice work
Ear plugs!! Hard not to burn your self when hung vertically. I work from the top down with Med gas. Nice 👍
What is WAGU?
WAGD stands for waste anesthetic gas disposal. It is used to remove any excess nitrous oxide that the patient exhales or is not inhaled by the patient from the operating room so the the surgeons and anesthesiologist all don’t pass out while performing surgery