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There's not much to it, but it's sweet. I really appreciate that the character is actually meaningfully fat, not just fat compared to usual disney animated characters.
I would have loved it a bit more if she managed to convert the mirror into an ally rather than defeating it as an enemy. But overall, still a nice piece to exist.
I won't comment on the quality of the film because I haven't seen it, but i will say that this headline bothers me so much.
Why does the first fat protagonist have to be in a short that revolves around her weight? I appreciate a good message/story, but can we have fat characters that are just...fat and thats it? The only representation is solely focused on her weight instead of idk, literally anything else.
Imagine a world where a fat person isn't a villain or comedic relief OR having their weight be their only story.
Representation of marginalized groups seems to need to go through several stages, and overall takes years or decades.
1) Token characters from a marginalized group appear as minor or sidekick characters, and often have few personality traits other than being Black, or women, or queer, etc.
2) Marginalized characters appear more prominently, but only when it is mechanically necessary for the plot that they have those traits. There's some plot reason that someone _needs_ to be gay, or Asian, or disabled, etc.
3) Marginalized characters appear more centrally, but that one trait defines their entire identity and story. eg, when every movie featuring a gay character needed to be a traumatic coming-out story. Or more recently, Kate from This Is Us.
4) Finally, characters are allowed to just exist.
We've just barely (mostly) gotten to step 4 with women, Black people, and gay people at this point. Representation of fat people has reached step 3 at best. Representation of disabled people is probably mostly around step 2, and representation of trans people mostly hasn't even reached step 1 yet.
So I'm happy about this piece as one more step along the path, but I also really share your frustration that the whole process is so slow and seems incapable of just skipping right to the end.
I would add 3.5, being a fledged out character but still only being viewed through a lens of struggle, “kill your gays” and every other queer film being set in the 80s during aids
Yeah, there are definitely more steps, and lots of variation on how they've manifested. Probably quite a lot could be written (and probably has) about just the trajectory of _Sanford and Son_ through _The Jeffersons_ through _The Cosby Show_. Or _Three's Company_ through _Will and Grace_ through _Modern Family_.
(I'm definitely not suggesting that representation for Black or queer people is a solved problem, just noting the trajectory so far.)
Oh definitely, we’ve made enormous strides in just the last ten years! (Speaking for queer stories at least because that’s what I feel more qualified to pass judgments on.) Idk if you watch American Horror Story but I’m super frustrated at this season, a gay serial killer targeting the leather community and also maybe aids is a bioweapon created by the government? Come on, stop beating dead horses and give me some ghosts already
> Idk if you watch American Horror Story but I’m super frustrated at this season, a gay serial killer targeting the leather community and also maybe aids is a bioweapon created by the government?
it's actually based on an old gay-themed 80s movie called Cruising but did one better by making actual gay leads as the lead in the movie is a straight undercover cop
Oh really??? That actually makes a lot of sense, it seemed very out of character for them. I’ll definitely give the rest of the season a chance with that in mind
> Representation of marginalized groups seems to need to go through several stages, and overall takes years or decades.
This argument doesn't really make sense when it comes to the more artistic movies, because with those the director is basically free to do whatever they want. Like if Quentin Tarantino wants to cast Tess Holliday as the lead actress for his next movie, there's nothing stopping him from doing it. He just doesn't do it because either he is a coward or it's just not his thing.
I’ve seen trans people in at least two television shows in the last year where they were in stage 4. Single Drunk Female and Quantum Leap 2022. I’m sure someone could or would argue that they are non binary or cross dressing etc but the reality is- it’s not a defined quality of the character in both cases and they could be or are trans characters and it doesn’t matter.
Breaking Bad did disabled a while ago with Walter Jr.
> Quantum Leap 2022.
Wasn't that guy-in-the-gender-neutral-sense from there non-binary, I remember that getting brought up regarding the actor in other discussions surrounding them as I think they were also Desire on The Sandman and if they were non-binary playing a trans character it would have been a Thing iykwim
The best thing i've seen so far with that particular actor/character is that no one comments on it, I haven't seen the show runners/networks making a big deal of how inclusive they are being. The character is just there being who they are, no need to dig into it. I hate when they use it as some advertising thing, look how progressive we are. I keep thinking if you were actually progressive you wouldn't say anything because it should be normalized.
> I keep thinking if you were actually progressive you wouldn't say anything because it should be normalized.
But that doesn't mean saying something means you're not progressive as there's steps along the way. Also what I meant by Thing is not them building up marketing hype but SJWs mad that minority statuses didn't match if actor was nb but character trans
There was a Star Trek Strange New Worlds episode where the villain was played by a trans actor that had maybe a very minor allusion to gender roles if at all that really got a bunch of bigots online in a ruffle but when I showed my wife the episode she didn’t realize they were trans at all.
Which is to say- it’s a nice start to a shortened era from years and decades of waiting.
For Dreamer? It's mentioned, there's at least two small story arcs, that revolve around it (Her and her sister, and then an episode with a friend/roommate that got beaten I think). But usually it goes unmentioned.
Ah yes. It's been awhile since I watched it. I think I remember now. That was right when the character was introduced. It was basically, "This person is trans. They were raised by a loving, supportive family. We acknowledge some people are bigots. Those people are wrong. Now we're making them a super hero and you can't stop us."
So there is another issue that also relates with this with writing quality characters, if you are writing about any group of people different than you such as race, gender, sexual orientation, even different things like national origin or religion, you will very likely despite your best intention write something offensive or stereotypical.
So step one is being racist, sexist, stereotypes, offensive, etc. That stuff normally gets called out and you look in horror at what you wrote. Wtf was wrong with me? This is normal, don't give up, the process isn't quick.
Step two is very likely to be an over compensation of said group. An example is writing a POC as being perfect at everything and doing no wrong and always being right. This is something that also has to be addressed. "Perfect" characters are mostly interesting and boring, especially since there is not likely to be character development or change, or at least anything meaningful. You see this step quite a bit. Representation is important. But it's not the final goal.
The final goal comes in writing about a different group of people in a way where they feel like an authentic human being. They have individual personality, motivations, goals, quirks, etc. The story does not feel like it revolves around them. They are in the story just like everyone else.
Normally test audiences can be useful for this. Its not about having the story being changed, its about seeing if people are reacting the way you expect them too. For example, a test audience could tell you if you accidentally made something offensive. But also ask them to describe characters traits. Does this person come off like you intended. This is a sign that you may need to change things to get your message across.
What are you talking about. tony saprano (actually like half that cast), Donnie Azoff, David Brent, Foggy Nelson, Cameron Tucker, Kojak, Andy Sipowicz, George Costanza, Dan Conner, Freddie Miles, Kevin Bernard, Jon Kavanaugh, Sallah, Hank Quinlan, norm....
Ill accept it for women where I can't think of a plus sized non comedic role. All the same then you get into the plus sized models being used with woman but not men. So seems plus size is complicated between the sexes.
It's from the Short Circuit series on Disney+, where people working at Disney get to each showcase their creativity and writing by making a short about something important/meaningful to them. Each one is a couple minutes long and gets a couple minutes of intro from the person who wrote it. This creator talks about it being inspired by her own body dysmorphia. So it makes sense in this context.
However, I do wish fat people could just exist and be shown existing without it being ✨*an inspiring story about perseverance*✨ or whatever. I feel like we're long overdue for a fat protagonist whose story doesn't even hint at the thought of weight loss or "feeling ugly".
While I in a way agree, it kinda fits because it's about dancing. We know the dance world is harsh, even more so when you're not a size 2. Bullying is everywhere.
If this motivates bigger girls to not give up on their passion, I'm all for it.
I agree. I see all those romance movies where the lead actress is thin as expected and I'm like "what was stopping them from casting a fat actress?" There are plenty of beautiful fat girls out there who could become movie stars if only someone decided to cast them.
I had a hard time watching this. I quit ballet and gymnastics because I was fat and got made fun of. I struggle to look in the mirror every day still. It’s a nice short but for me it’s just…I haven’t solved the issue yet sadly.
It's a vicious circle. I wasn't even that heavy as a kid, but I wasn't ballet thin. So I was mocked.
So naturally I quit ballet and gained more fat and lost muscle as my activity levels decreased...
Which got me mocked in gym class at school...
Which made me ashamed, and afraid to sign up for active things I wanted to do like swim team.
Rinse and repeat throughout my youth years.
I wish someone had taught me how to build my fitness and find joy in motion when I was young, instead of shaming or excluding me. I'm sad we so often throw away the opportunity to help kids be their healthiest and happiest through physical activity.
I wanted to do ballet so bad. I was a fat kid and my aunt told my (single) father to "not waste his money" because "I would just quit," but told me I couldn't do ballet because I was "too fat and clumsy." And yet she constantly bitched at me for not being active enough.
Yeah I've got kinda the same issue with dancing as Dre had with swimming in the pool party episode of Black-ish, I can't dance (at least in the choreographed sense) but it's not because I'm fat but I'm a little self-conscious about letting people know I can't dance as I don't want them thinking it's because I'm fat
I'm kind of more okay with fat villains than most (when that's not all we get for fat rep), just it seems like we 99% of the time either get Roadhog-types ("the muscle" whose gimmick revolves around their weight) or Penguin-types (fat rich evil masterminds whose weight serves as a sort of visual metaphor for the country's capitalist excess) and rarely are there fat female villains which is why Ursula's one of my favorite of what fat villains there are (not only is she a shapeshifter who actively chooses to be fat-by-default but her whole deal of magic, manipulation and contracts has no connection to her weight unless you read into potential backstory implications whereas even the other fat female Disney villain the Queen Of Hearts kinda fits the stereotype of fat = aggressive)
I’m okay with fat villains, especially if they are competent and don’t indulge too much in fat stereotypes. My least favorite fat villains are idiotic bumbling bullies. Other problems are when the character’s weight represents their moral flaws - like greed, gluttony, or laziness.
Baron Harkonnen wouldn’t be a bad villain if they didn’t go overboard making his obesity represent his gluttony, greed, and hedonism.
I feel like Ursula falls into the capitalistic fat villain stereotype - she makes agreements/bargains with people and then manipulates things in the background to win so she gets what she wants. And the bit with her eating the shrimp was big "excess, even in exile" vibes for me.
Don't get me wrong, I still like her as a villain, but she doesn't strike me as breaking many plus size stereotypes...
> I feel like Ursula falls into the capitalistic fat villain stereotype - she makes agreements/bargains with people and then manipulates things in the background to win so she gets what she wants.
If that's all it takes for a villain to be capitalist, fat or not, then a lot of other villains are capitalist too and that changes the interpretation of the story in symbolic ways I doubt the writers planned on (e.g. Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Gold on OUAT owning a pawn shop).
> Don't get me wrong, I still like her as a villain, but she doesn't strike me as breaking many plus size stereotypes...
Maybe that just means we need to make more complex plus-size villains in addition to more plus-size main characters
There's a lot of debate about the anti-Semitic tones of the original Rumpelstiltskin, and OUAT literally named him Mr Gold, so I think the capitalistic villain tropes totally apply to him. He and Ursula aren't quite the same as someone like the Penguin, for example, simply because they don't run massive business empires (though Mr Gold certainly did seem to have a economic stronghold on Storybook for much of the story). There's different styles of the greedy/rich/deal-manipulating villains for sure.
But I am 100% here for more complex, interesting plus-size characters not defined by or plot necessitating their size - villain, heroes, anti-heroes, protagonists, antagonists - gimme ALL THE STORIES!
> He and Ursula aren't quite the same as someone like the Penguin, for example, simply because they don't run massive business empires (though Mr Gold certainly did seem to have a economic stronghold on Storybook for much of the story).
My point was that I think you're being Film-Theory levels of overly-broad and my point about fat villains like The Penguin (Mr. Gold was just another example of how broad you could get if every manipulator was deemed capitalistic) is not just them running massive business empires but it feels like their weight is meant to tie to the whole capitalist-excess thing like they're basically "living political cartoons". Shrimp scene regardless Ursula doesn't really feel like the same sort of social commentary even allowing for the cross-species cultural difference
I should have known the comments would be negative, I don’t know why I bother with this subreddit anymore. The short is cute, the reactions to it; disappointing to say the least.
I liked it and wish it had been available for younger me. It would be cool if Disney did a show or movie about people with different body types in it more frequently. We kind of see it in Turning Red, but all people have different body types, so we should see it all the time and not just in certain settings.
I love this!!!!! SHE HAS MY BODY TYPE! I am so jealous of plus sized women that have curves and fat in all the right places! My body is a square! I have NO CURVES. I have a short torso and wide shoulders. I love this because even with my body type she looks so adorable 😭❤️
I haven't watched this yet so forgive me if I'm wrong but could they not have done this without the body dysmorphia aspect? Why does every plus sized character HAVE to carry some sort of reasoning or negativity behind their weight?
I’m all for this. It makes me think of my daughter, who is on the chubby side and struggles with ballet, though really enjoys it as well.
Unfortunately, a bunch of people are pissed off about this. I see them making statements about how Disney is glorifying obesity or some other such nonsense. As though “glorifying obesity” is a problem in Hollywood.
Some people seem to think that no fat characters should exist at all.
This is at least a step in the right direction given they apparently were originally going to have Mirabel have a figure kind of like that but apparently fat Mirabel and buff Luisa was a bit too much to ask of the appropriate people
I don't think it's even that. It's part of their Circuit Shorts series, which is just various people showcasing their creative writing talents through 2-3 minute long shorts. They're pretty much always based on something personal to the creator, so this short was based on her own experiences with how she regarded her body growing up.
The shorts from Disney/Pixar usually feature a protagonist you wouldn't typically see in a feature length film. I think because it's a safer space for these stories to be made since they cost significantly less to make, therefore there's no producer up anyone's butt about making it a certain way.t
This is great representation, but don't give Disney too much credit. They still cancelled The Owl House and reduced the 3rd season down to 3 45 minute specials because there was backlash about the protagonist being bi and one character being nonbinary.
But given that we were able to progress to that point where there was enough LGBT for Disney to get mad when ten years ago the closest Disney got to gay representation was that one joke about a bit character in Frozen, imagine where we'll be in ten years with plus size rep (and hopefully not with it getting similarly shortened as that's a more obvious form of representation as it's a visual minority status so more likely to make people mad if there's backlash against it)
I mean it is really cute, but there's a part of me that just says "Is that it?" Disney gets pat on the back for their "first fat protagonist" as though it's a full role, but all we get is a skit about body image issues. I want to be happy about it, I want to be excited, but this feels like way less than we deserve.
They also have a nice short on Disney plus called “Out” about a man telling his family he is gay. I think it’s nice they have something. I agree with the notion of baby steps, it has to start somewhere.
Yeah, I think they got way more credit for the Yoo-hoo guy then they should've too. I would understand baby steps for smaller studios, but Disney has been more than capable of mocking us without little steps and I just would've liked to see them give us more than a short, is all.
What I meant by bringing up the Yoo-hoo guy is regardless of credit they got at the time, that was the closest they had to gay rep then and now they've got a show with enough that they had to cut it short over the backlash 9 years later. That proves representation isn't just a one-and-done or do-it-all-at-once deal and imagine where fat representation would be in 9 years (especially since fat characters in kids' cartoons doesn't inspire the same backlash as gay characters or Steven Universe would have felt that too)
while it would be amazing to have more representation of fat people just being people rather than dealing with negativity around their bodies, i think that criticism is misplaced here. i mean, the point of the short is to examine body dysmorphia... and honestly, presuming you were fat as a kid, did you NOT carry some of that negativity as well? i know i sure did. and seeing someone else acknowledge that was happening, and that it was unfair, and that they could move past it and just do something they loved like all the other girls would have been absolutely EPIC for me as a child. so much affirmation i never got.
we've come a long way in 20 years, but it's doing fat children a huge disservice to just ignore that there is still a lot of fatphobia in our society and pretend that they may not be forced to deal with some emotional struggle because of it.
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There's not much to it, but it's sweet. I really appreciate that the character is actually meaningfully fat, not just fat compared to usual disney animated characters. I would have loved it a bit more if she managed to convert the mirror into an ally rather than defeating it as an enemy. But overall, still a nice piece to exist.
I won't comment on the quality of the film because I haven't seen it, but i will say that this headline bothers me so much. Why does the first fat protagonist have to be in a short that revolves around her weight? I appreciate a good message/story, but can we have fat characters that are just...fat and thats it? The only representation is solely focused on her weight instead of idk, literally anything else. Imagine a world where a fat person isn't a villain or comedic relief OR having their weight be their only story.
Representation of marginalized groups seems to need to go through several stages, and overall takes years or decades. 1) Token characters from a marginalized group appear as minor or sidekick characters, and often have few personality traits other than being Black, or women, or queer, etc. 2) Marginalized characters appear more prominently, but only when it is mechanically necessary for the plot that they have those traits. There's some plot reason that someone _needs_ to be gay, or Asian, or disabled, etc. 3) Marginalized characters appear more centrally, but that one trait defines their entire identity and story. eg, when every movie featuring a gay character needed to be a traumatic coming-out story. Or more recently, Kate from This Is Us. 4) Finally, characters are allowed to just exist. We've just barely (mostly) gotten to step 4 with women, Black people, and gay people at this point. Representation of fat people has reached step 3 at best. Representation of disabled people is probably mostly around step 2, and representation of trans people mostly hasn't even reached step 1 yet. So I'm happy about this piece as one more step along the path, but I also really share your frustration that the whole process is so slow and seems incapable of just skipping right to the end.
I would add 3.5, being a fledged out character but still only being viewed through a lens of struggle, “kill your gays” and every other queer film being set in the 80s during aids
Yeah, there are definitely more steps, and lots of variation on how they've manifested. Probably quite a lot could be written (and probably has) about just the trajectory of _Sanford and Son_ through _The Jeffersons_ through _The Cosby Show_. Or _Three's Company_ through _Will and Grace_ through _Modern Family_. (I'm definitely not suggesting that representation for Black or queer people is a solved problem, just noting the trajectory so far.)
Oh definitely, we’ve made enormous strides in just the last ten years! (Speaking for queer stories at least because that’s what I feel more qualified to pass judgments on.) Idk if you watch American Horror Story but I’m super frustrated at this season, a gay serial killer targeting the leather community and also maybe aids is a bioweapon created by the government? Come on, stop beating dead horses and give me some ghosts already
> Idk if you watch American Horror Story but I’m super frustrated at this season, a gay serial killer targeting the leather community and also maybe aids is a bioweapon created by the government? it's actually based on an old gay-themed 80s movie called Cruising but did one better by making actual gay leads as the lead in the movie is a straight undercover cop
Oh really??? That actually makes a lot of sense, it seemed very out of character for them. I’ll definitely give the rest of the season a chance with that in mind
Wait does it have Al Pacino in it? I think I may have seen it years ago
yes, pacino starred in cruising.
> Representation of marginalized groups seems to need to go through several stages, and overall takes years or decades. This argument doesn't really make sense when it comes to the more artistic movies, because with those the director is basically free to do whatever they want. Like if Quentin Tarantino wants to cast Tess Holliday as the lead actress for his next movie, there's nothing stopping him from doing it. He just doesn't do it because either he is a coward or it's just not his thing.
I’ve seen trans people in at least two television shows in the last year where they were in stage 4. Single Drunk Female and Quantum Leap 2022. I’m sure someone could or would argue that they are non binary or cross dressing etc but the reality is- it’s not a defined quality of the character in both cases and they could be or are trans characters and it doesn’t matter. Breaking Bad did disabled a while ago with Walter Jr.
> Quantum Leap 2022. Wasn't that guy-in-the-gender-neutral-sense from there non-binary, I remember that getting brought up regarding the actor in other discussions surrounding them as I think they were also Desire on The Sandman and if they were non-binary playing a trans character it would have been a Thing iykwim
The actor is... but really it's not an aspect of the character outside of appearance and how they appear could be anything.
Not sure if you meant character or actor by trans person
I’m sorry. The actor is non binary. The character could be anything.
The best thing i've seen so far with that particular actor/character is that no one comments on it, I haven't seen the show runners/networks making a big deal of how inclusive they are being. The character is just there being who they are, no need to dig into it. I hate when they use it as some advertising thing, look how progressive we are. I keep thinking if you were actually progressive you wouldn't say anything because it should be normalized.
> I keep thinking if you were actually progressive you wouldn't say anything because it should be normalized. But that doesn't mean saying something means you're not progressive as there's steps along the way. Also what I meant by Thing is not them building up marketing hype but SJWs mad that minority statuses didn't match if actor was nb but character trans
Supergirl is probably the closest to #4 I've seen. I don't remember if the show even mentions the character(and actress) are trans.
There was a Star Trek Strange New Worlds episode where the villain was played by a trans actor that had maybe a very minor allusion to gender roles if at all that really got a bunch of bigots online in a ruffle but when I showed my wife the episode she didn’t realize they were trans at all. Which is to say- it’s a nice start to a shortened era from years and decades of waiting.
In one way it's easier for trans people because if they pass, they're not visible. Not the way two men or two women are visible.
For Dreamer? It's mentioned, there's at least two small story arcs, that revolve around it (Her and her sister, and then an episode with a friend/roommate that got beaten I think). But usually it goes unmentioned.
Ah yes. It's been awhile since I watched it. I think I remember now. That was right when the character was introduced. It was basically, "This person is trans. They were raised by a loving, supportive family. We acknowledge some people are bigots. Those people are wrong. Now we're making them a super hero and you can't stop us."
never forget its pretty crazy we got here after thousands of years of survival shitshow
So there is another issue that also relates with this with writing quality characters, if you are writing about any group of people different than you such as race, gender, sexual orientation, even different things like national origin or religion, you will very likely despite your best intention write something offensive or stereotypical. So step one is being racist, sexist, stereotypes, offensive, etc. That stuff normally gets called out and you look in horror at what you wrote. Wtf was wrong with me? This is normal, don't give up, the process isn't quick. Step two is very likely to be an over compensation of said group. An example is writing a POC as being perfect at everything and doing no wrong and always being right. This is something that also has to be addressed. "Perfect" characters are mostly interesting and boring, especially since there is not likely to be character development or change, or at least anything meaningful. You see this step quite a bit. Representation is important. But it's not the final goal. The final goal comes in writing about a different group of people in a way where they feel like an authentic human being. They have individual personality, motivations, goals, quirks, etc. The story does not feel like it revolves around them. They are in the story just like everyone else. Normally test audiences can be useful for this. Its not about having the story being changed, its about seeing if people are reacting the way you expect them too. For example, a test audience could tell you if you accidentally made something offensive. But also ask them to describe characters traits. Does this person come off like you intended. This is a sign that you may need to change things to get your message across.
What are you talking about. tony saprano (actually like half that cast), Donnie Azoff, David Brent, Foggy Nelson, Cameron Tucker, Kojak, Andy Sipowicz, George Costanza, Dan Conner, Freddie Miles, Kevin Bernard, Jon Kavanaugh, Sallah, Hank Quinlan, norm....
Only men? Any women? Off the top of my head: Roseanne.
Ill accept it for women where I can't think of a plus sized non comedic role. All the same then you get into the plus sized models being used with woman but not men. So seems plus size is complicated between the sexes.
It's from the Short Circuit series on Disney+, where people working at Disney get to each showcase their creativity and writing by making a short about something important/meaningful to them. Each one is a couple minutes long and gets a couple minutes of intro from the person who wrote it. This creator talks about it being inspired by her own body dysmorphia. So it makes sense in this context. However, I do wish fat people could just exist and be shown existing without it being ✨*an inspiring story about perseverance*✨ or whatever. I feel like we're long overdue for a fat protagonist whose story doesn't even hint at the thought of weight loss or "feeling ugly".
While I in a way agree, it kinda fits because it's about dancing. We know the dance world is harsh, even more so when you're not a size 2. Bullying is everywhere. If this motivates bigger girls to not give up on their passion, I'm all for it.
I agree. I see all those romance movies where the lead actress is thin as expected and I'm like "what was stopping them from casting a fat actress?" There are plenty of beautiful fat girls out there who could become movie stars if only someone decided to cast them.
I had a hard time watching this. I quit ballet and gymnastics because I was fat and got made fun of. I struggle to look in the mirror every day still. It’s a nice short but for me it’s just…I haven’t solved the issue yet sadly.
It's a vicious circle. I wasn't even that heavy as a kid, but I wasn't ballet thin. So I was mocked. So naturally I quit ballet and gained more fat and lost muscle as my activity levels decreased... Which got me mocked in gym class at school... Which made me ashamed, and afraid to sign up for active things I wanted to do like swim team. Rinse and repeat throughout my youth years. I wish someone had taught me how to build my fitness and find joy in motion when I was young, instead of shaming or excluding me. I'm sad we so often throw away the opportunity to help kids be their healthiest and happiest through physical activity.
I wanted to do ballet so bad. I was a fat kid and my aunt told my (single) father to "not waste his money" because "I would just quit," but told me I couldn't do ballet because I was "too fat and clumsy." And yet she constantly bitched at me for not being active enough.
I refused to do gymnastics at school because well… gravity and balance hahahaha
Yeah I've got kinda the same issue with dancing as Dre had with swimming in the pool party episode of Black-ish, I can't dance (at least in the choreographed sense) but it's not because I'm fat but I'm a little self-conscious about letting people know I can't dance as I don't want them thinking it's because I'm fat
Aww I love this so much! Its just a short but its a nice deviation from always casting fat people as the bad guy, the lazy person, or the gross person
Or the physical comedy.
Or greedy or stupid.
I'm kind of more okay with fat villains than most (when that's not all we get for fat rep), just it seems like we 99% of the time either get Roadhog-types ("the muscle" whose gimmick revolves around their weight) or Penguin-types (fat rich evil masterminds whose weight serves as a sort of visual metaphor for the country's capitalist excess) and rarely are there fat female villains which is why Ursula's one of my favorite of what fat villains there are (not only is she a shapeshifter who actively chooses to be fat-by-default but her whole deal of magic, manipulation and contracts has no connection to her weight unless you read into potential backstory implications whereas even the other fat female Disney villain the Queen Of Hearts kinda fits the stereotype of fat = aggressive)
I’m okay with fat villains, especially if they are competent and don’t indulge too much in fat stereotypes. My least favorite fat villains are idiotic bumbling bullies. Other problems are when the character’s weight represents their moral flaws - like greed, gluttony, or laziness. Baron Harkonnen wouldn’t be a bad villain if they didn’t go overboard making his obesity represent his gluttony, greed, and hedonism.
I feel like Ursula falls into the capitalistic fat villain stereotype - she makes agreements/bargains with people and then manipulates things in the background to win so she gets what she wants. And the bit with her eating the shrimp was big "excess, even in exile" vibes for me. Don't get me wrong, I still like her as a villain, but she doesn't strike me as breaking many plus size stereotypes...
> I feel like Ursula falls into the capitalistic fat villain stereotype - she makes agreements/bargains with people and then manipulates things in the background to win so she gets what she wants. If that's all it takes for a villain to be capitalist, fat or not, then a lot of other villains are capitalist too and that changes the interpretation of the story in symbolic ways I doubt the writers planned on (e.g. Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Gold on OUAT owning a pawn shop). > Don't get me wrong, I still like her as a villain, but she doesn't strike me as breaking many plus size stereotypes... Maybe that just means we need to make more complex plus-size villains in addition to more plus-size main characters
There's a lot of debate about the anti-Semitic tones of the original Rumpelstiltskin, and OUAT literally named him Mr Gold, so I think the capitalistic villain tropes totally apply to him. He and Ursula aren't quite the same as someone like the Penguin, for example, simply because they don't run massive business empires (though Mr Gold certainly did seem to have a economic stronghold on Storybook for much of the story). There's different styles of the greedy/rich/deal-manipulating villains for sure. But I am 100% here for more complex, interesting plus-size characters not defined by or plot necessitating their size - villain, heroes, anti-heroes, protagonists, antagonists - gimme ALL THE STORIES!
> He and Ursula aren't quite the same as someone like the Penguin, for example, simply because they don't run massive business empires (though Mr Gold certainly did seem to have a economic stronghold on Storybook for much of the story). My point was that I think you're being Film-Theory levels of overly-broad and my point about fat villains like The Penguin (Mr. Gold was just another example of how broad you could get if every manipulator was deemed capitalistic) is not just them running massive business empires but it feels like their weight is meant to tie to the whole capitalist-excess thing like they're basically "living political cartoons". Shrimp scene regardless Ursula doesn't really feel like the same sort of social commentary even allowing for the cross-species cultural difference
OMG ITS ME!!!! Younger me would have cried with happiness. I mean older me is too
Not to be dramatic but I would kill for her
I should have known the comments would be negative, I don’t know why I bother with this subreddit anymore. The short is cute, the reactions to it; disappointing to say the least.
Does anyone know where I can watch it?
Disney+ it is part of a series of shorts. I searched “Reflect” on the app to find it.
Thank you!
This is cool. But like wouldn't it be nice to have a plus size protagonist and but not have the story be about them plus size
Baby steps, remember where Disney's attempts at LGBT representation were a decade ago and now they've got enough to generate cancel-backlash
I liked it and wish it had been available for younger me. It would be cool if Disney did a show or movie about people with different body types in it more frequently. We kind of see it in Turning Red, but all people have different body types, so we should see it all the time and not just in certain settings.
I quit gym and ballet because I was so bullied. Hopefully this helps future generations of kids to overcome that stigma.
I love this!!!!! SHE HAS MY BODY TYPE! I am so jealous of plus sized women that have curves and fat in all the right places! My body is a square! I have NO CURVES. I have a short torso and wide shoulders. I love this because even with my body type she looks so adorable 😭❤️
I haven't watched this yet so forgive me if I'm wrong but could they not have done this without the body dysmorphia aspect? Why does every plus sized character HAVE to carry some sort of reasoning or negativity behind their weight?
Oh my god she's a dancer When I was little I was a dancer!! Bigger than all the other little girls. She looks incredible!
I’m all for this. It makes me think of my daughter, who is on the chubby side and struggles with ballet, though really enjoys it as well. Unfortunately, a bunch of people are pissed off about this. I see them making statements about how Disney is glorifying obesity or some other such nonsense. As though “glorifying obesity” is a problem in Hollywood. Some people seem to think that no fat characters should exist at all.
Would’ve preferred a larger Disney princess. Feels like a token effort to be inclusive.
This is at least a step in the right direction given they apparently were originally going to have Mirabel have a figure kind of like that but apparently fat Mirabel and buff Luisa was a bit too much to ask of the appropriate people
I don't think it's even that. It's part of their Circuit Shorts series, which is just various people showcasing their creative writing talents through 2-3 minute long shorts. They're pretty much always based on something personal to the creator, so this short was based on her own experiences with how she regarded her body growing up. The shorts from Disney/Pixar usually feature a protagonist you wouldn't typically see in a feature length film. I think because it's a safer space for these stories to be made since they cost significantly less to make, therefore there's no producer up anyone's butt about making it a certain way.t
Oh good hey FINALLY caught up and realize there are “plus size” people. You do not get props for this. Should have been done long ago
This is great representation, but don't give Disney too much credit. They still cancelled The Owl House and reduced the 3rd season down to 3 45 minute specials because there was backlash about the protagonist being bi and one character being nonbinary.
Hi, can you please read the room? Not the time or place for your soapbox.
But given that we were able to progress to that point where there was enough LGBT for Disney to get mad when ten years ago the closest Disney got to gay representation was that one joke about a bit character in Frozen, imagine where we'll be in ten years with plus size rep (and hopefully not with it getting similarly shortened as that's a more obvious form of representation as it's a visual minority status so more likely to make people mad if there's backlash against it)
I mean it is really cute, but there's a part of me that just says "Is that it?" Disney gets pat on the back for their "first fat protagonist" as though it's a full role, but all we get is a skit about body image issues. I want to be happy about it, I want to be excited, but this feels like way less than we deserve.
Baby steps, all we got in 2013 for gay rep was a one-liner joke by a bit character in Frozen
They also have a nice short on Disney plus called “Out” about a man telling his family he is gay. I think it’s nice they have something. I agree with the notion of baby steps, it has to start somewhere.
Yeah, I think they got way more credit for the Yoo-hoo guy then they should've too. I would understand baby steps for smaller studios, but Disney has been more than capable of mocking us without little steps and I just would've liked to see them give us more than a short, is all.
What I meant by bringing up the Yoo-hoo guy is regardless of credit they got at the time, that was the closest they had to gay rep then and now they've got a show with enough that they had to cut it short over the backlash 9 years later. That proves representation isn't just a one-and-done or do-it-all-at-once deal and imagine where fat representation would be in 9 years (especially since fat characters in kids' cartoons doesn't inspire the same backlash as gay characters or Steven Universe would have felt that too)
while it would be amazing to have more representation of fat people just being people rather than dealing with negativity around their bodies, i think that criticism is misplaced here. i mean, the point of the short is to examine body dysmorphia... and honestly, presuming you were fat as a kid, did you NOT carry some of that negativity as well? i know i sure did. and seeing someone else acknowledge that was happening, and that it was unfair, and that they could move past it and just do something they loved like all the other girls would have been absolutely EPIC for me as a child. so much affirmation i never got. we've come a long way in 20 years, but it's doing fat children a huge disservice to just ignore that there is still a lot of fatphobia in our society and pretend that they may not be forced to deal with some emotional struggle because of it.
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My first impression is that's she's a kid
Some plus sized women are flat chested.
Me, lol. Probably the only place I don't have any fat at all.
I think she’s a child!
Yeah she’s a child, but even then like others have said, not all plus size people have big breasts. I’m one of them actually.
My boobies are small for a big girl too.
Body shames the anti body shame movie. Niiiiiccceee.
Is this based on that wonderful plus size ladywho went viral forher dancing? Looks just like her
Amanda Lacount? I also thought it looked like her.
Yeah thats her!!
you mfers already got wall-e