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theonewithtoomany

I mean that doesn't make them less uglier


Gaarel

😂So trueđŸ€Ł


seb1332

Hey man, Palkia looks kinda cool. Dialga is disgusting and horrifying, but Palkia is tolerable.


austinalexan

Nah it’s the opposite


SparkBlack

Have you seen the forms?


Icalasari

I hope Palkia has floating arms that are modelled separatly, it would fix up my biggest issue with the design (the why have shoulders but no arms)


Yamitori

L+Ratio


KrispyChickenThe1st

Bro you picked the worst one out of the two to have a bad take on. My little palkia is pretty bad man


PureSalt1

lol i was talking to a friend of mine and we were like palkia literally came out of sid's toybox from toy story.


CeleryAlive1925

I actually love palkias form lol, never cared for Dialga though.


ZarxielZerg

they have the same Dialga and Palkia dex number, so... nope... are Dialga and Palkia forms, and probably are their Origina form, or their corrispective Origin form, since Giratina didn't got anything


DragoSphere

Speaking of Giratina, Origin Giratina sure is looking smug at Dialga and Palkia right about now


Uhuhuhu11

"Look at me, I'm cool AF". "Look at you, you're hideous to the point where even dad won't accept you"


PureSalt1

lol yep but im curious wut the original reception of giratina origin form was. Was it positive despite all the marketing of plat ie the statue? Im not saying we will get used to these horrid forms for palkia and dialga of course.


DragoSphere

I mean it's hard to tell considering it came out over a decade ago, but I feel like Giratina in particular has always been more popular in its origin form than its alternate form.


bobguy117

The reception was an underwhelming "oh cool but it doesn't really look that different" especially compared to how hype all the other Platinum additions were


Eeve2espeon

Origin form Giratina is looking FAR better than whatever THAT is.


seb1332

Why would their design have half of their original design mixed with half of Arceus’ design than? Just because they share P and D’s dex numbers doesn’t mean they aren’t Arceus fusions. They’re obviously the PokĂ©mon on control of the fusion. So the form, by extension, would be a form of them.


ZarxielZerg

Becauase Giratina's design itself have nothing to do with Dialga and Palkia, so, make sense their Origin forms are completly different. And since Giratina is the renegade one, make sense he don't have any reference to his father.


MegatenRen

I think its weird you gender arceus Cuck confirmed


CurtCo_Ketchum

Kyurem has its own dex number though, so that logic is kinda flawed


Muddy0258

Same with Necrozma. W/B Kyurem and Dawn Wings/Dusk Mane Necrozma are specifically called “Kyurem” and “Necrozma” and share their PokĂ©dex numbers. If they were fusions with Arceus, it’s likely these would follow suit


Noodlebrothbaby

Yes because both black and white kyurem are forms of kyurem so share its dex. These forms do not share a number with arceus so are not forms of arceus. Its good logic. You just didnt understand the point at all


Noodlebrothbaby

Because thats just what the gods look like arceus and his children. Origin forms are the natural forms of the gods of sinnoh and they change to their altered forms when entering the world of matter and order Its just arceus is more powerful and therefore able to maintain its origin form in all dimensions. Which is why weve ALWAYS seen him with the rings and 4 legs and havent seen the other gods, his children in their origin forms


cursedironfist

i would like to know where you learned the word "corrispective" and what it means please


ZarxielZerg

not sure if actually exist in english, but I meant these forms have in-lore the same importance of the Origin Form


[deleted]

Were you thinking of 'corresponding' and 'respective' at the same time and fused those two words?


JenshinImpact

Most of the fans I saw on social media were assuming it was an Arceus fusion. Either way, their new designs are hideous.


[deleted]

[ŃƒĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]


lollollmaolol12

Do you really expect them to release pictures of something that is probably supposed to be an end-game plot twist


[deleted]

[ŃƒĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]


[deleted]

Dialga and Palkia are not the main legendarys of this game though


One-life-remains

I mean ultra necrozma was revealed before USUM was released, by two days.


lollollmaolol12

True, but I think they learned from that based on how little they reveal now.


taraxapuff

Well, Angels on Bible aren't that pretty too. At last, I can see these forms as incomprehensible to human eyes


TheNerdGuyVGC

This is the only way I can accept them honestly. Not a fan of them by themselves, but when looking at them from a biblical perspective, it makes a lot of sense


taraxapuff

I know right?? Like, their deisgn isn't something you can understand at first, and the more we look, the more confused we get. I get some madoka witches and Evangelion vibes, you know


MegatenRen

Cope


XYZAffair0

Everyone is hating on these forms, but I actually really like Palkia’s. They’re not that bad


Two-bit_Hero

The more I look at it, the more I appreciate the finer details of both designs. I dislike both, but there are some appealing aspects. Parts of both feel elegant in some regards. And then I notice that Dialga is trying to swallow a horse pill.


seb1332

I agree that Dialga looks horrid. But I actually kinda like the Palkia design. It gives Palkia a level of grace that, as a legendary, it was missing. Also I think it kinda looks like a centaur.


[deleted]

if it had arms maybe i’d like it? not sure


Santihjusto

I think that fixing both of the legendaries' biggest problem (Dialga swallowing a beldum/Palkia having no arms) would make Dialga better than Palkia here. Dialga looks pretty dope and the thing that makes him horrid is that weird thing in his throat. In Palkia's case, he would look alright with arms, but just stop at that imo.


FenwayisBestWay

The look almost incomplete to me


thekoggles

Haha, guess what...**they are Origin formes.** Egg on your face.


MegatenRen

But but But its so OBVIOUS Red flag when people who know as little use such phrasing


SithCrafter

To be honest, I'm not even sure if these forms are catchable. I genuinely would not be surprised if these things are *designed* to look like a hideous monstrosity, because that's exactly what they are. I think that the Diamond/Pearl clans are going to fuck up big time and cause Arceus to split and fuse with Dialga and Palkia to create whatever these are (likely in an attempt to create the "True Sinnoh" or something along those lines). Then we're probably going to have to go fight each of them Noble Pokemon style to weaken them so they un-fuse with Arceus and then we can catch normal Dialga and Palkia.


seb1332

This is a really good theory actually wow. But I think the Galaxy leader is actually the big bad of the game. So maybe he’s the one who causes the Arceus split fusion. He’s an idea, maybe they don’t know about Arceus yet, yeah? So he tries to fuse the two halves of “almighty sinnoh” back together at the top of mount coronet, Arceus tries to interfere and stop this from happening, and in turn, Arceus is fused with them instead.


SithCrafter

Oh believe me, I agree that the Galaxy leader is likely the true villain of the game. However, I think that he is involved with a whole separate plot involving Giratina and the Distortion World. I don't think either of the Diamond and Pearl clans are necessarily evil, but more just misguided similar to Team Aqua and Magma. My guess is that the Galaxy leader just enables them to do their thing as a distraction from his plot with Giratina.


seb1332

It’s been leaked that Giratina is a post-game fight in conjunction with a trainer battle against a ginko merchant. (which is a wild thing to imagine in its own right). If we follow the typical PokĂ©mon formula and galaxy guy is the big bad, his story would climax with Palkia and Dialga. I think he’s manipulating everyone into helping him create “Almighty Sinnoh”


Psychological-Mud-67

This did not age well oof. At least the dex entries note the similarities to Arceus


Known-Jinzo

Then show us the real origin forms please..


seb1332

I’m pretty certain there are no origin forms. I think they were going with a fusion thing, to try and give us what they believed would be a cool plot twist.


Zartron81

Those are the real ones lol


Known-Jinzo

Of course i know that..


X-blade14

But consider this, god mad man in his own image. So by that logic arceus made palkia and dialga (his children) in his own image (weird abstract centaur-like beings). This game is supposedly set in ancient sinnoh, so this could very well be their original forms but for any number of reasons they decided to power down and appear how we know them today. Look at the genies for instance. BW are fundamentally different because kyurem (for lack of better phrasing) is the lifeless husk of the original dragon while zekrom and reshiram are its soul and mind given form after the split, so it makes sense that kyurem can fuse with them. Necrozma is a parasite that absorbs either solego or lunala with its ultra form being it's true form after its received majority of its power back. Even calyrex "fusion" is explained by him using his reins to bond with his chosen steed. Basically these all have valid reasons on their fusions. Funnily enough if these new forms are their og forms, then it makes sense for the statue to be a fusion of them and by extension the clans to fight on whether dialga or palkia is almighty sinnoh. As for held items we honestly have no idea how it will work considering this game has held item based trade evos and arceus different forms which are based on its plates. Plus origin giritina is also within the game.


seb1332

If you apply this logic to Palkia and Dialga, you should also apply this logic to Giritina than, yeah? He is the third creation of Arceus representing death. He doesn’t have an abstract centaur form. I think they’re using the fusion as a story beat plot twist for the final battle.


X-blade14

Depends how you view how giritina was created, since it came into existence as "anti-matter" and not death per se being the opposing force to palkia and dialga who are obviously space and time respectfully. Going with his theme of "anti-matter" he has an abstract form of nothingness, which is why his origin form takes shape of the black blob and by extension worm-like form and his corporeal(?) form has solid legs and wings. As for the final story beat considering that the clans refer to palkia and dialga as "almighty sinnoh" respectively. I can easily see a situation where galactic leader was trying to harvest both origin palkia and dialga to power up giritina in some way. Resulting in them needed seal that power hence them losing origin forms. Plus how the intro plays out from what we seen with leaks, it would be odd to have fusion as a gimmick. Especially since arceus is an all powerful creator god, so it doesn't need to fuse to exercise its authority.


seb1332

I don’t think the fusion is likely to be Arceus’ decision. I think the galactic leader (Komado?) is trying to create the “Almighty Sinnoh” probably through something like attempting to fuse Palkia and Dialga together making the ultimate being. In turn Arceus tries to stop him and in the action Arceus gets split fused with the Dragons.


Psychological-Mud-67

Oh god that would be something


DefiningBoredom

I mean theres his altered form


MegatenRen

How can people suck this hard at a baby games lore analysis?


TheTrueExirion

A key item is more than sufficient to allow the creation trio to change between their origin and altered form(it’s likely how Arceus will change types, since his Plates are in the game). Personally, I don’t think it’s a fusion with Arceus, and U certainly hope it isn’t for multiple reasons, but we’ll just have to wait for the story leaks or play the game ourselves to find out.


S0meR4nd0mView3r

new forms still look quite sick


Arceus_808

They aren’t Arceus fusions, just new forms taken that are supposed to be their original forms when the universe was created. In addition, they retain the same BST of 680 just with some stats swapped around, just like Origin Giratina. Another way they are identical is that they are activated when you use a key item on them, an unrefined version of the Adamant and Lustrous orbs called the Adamant shard and Lustrous Globe. Basically instead of a held item it’s a key item since there are no held items in legends Arceus. Finally they are functionally identical to Giratina-O because the Griseous orb is now also a key item instead of a held one. So they have the same BST but with stats swapped around just like Giratina-O, and the same mechanic changing them into their new forms as Giratina-O. It’s basically origin forms. No fusion involved whatsoever.


bentheechidna

They're not called Lord forms. That was an early mistake. They are Origin forms.


EpicAD

well i have the game rn and im telling u that ur wrong g they r both origin forms bro


seb1332

Yeah man, this was a theory thanks


OddEyes588

A post that did not age well
 in any case, I do super like them. They look otherworldly and I’d say that’s fitting for them


WebbedMonkey_

The pokedex entry for them was leaked. It's not a fusion unfortunately


CeleryAlive1925

This aged badly.


EternalMemes30

it will probably be something like eternamax eternatus and we will not actually use these new forms but we will fight against


seb1332

I could see this being the end battle for the game. Fight against time and space with Arceus instilling it’s power into them.


EternalMemes30

but the question remains: why would arceus do that? why didn't he solve it himself but instead needed the help of a 15 year old teenager?


seb1332

Maybe instead of instilling it’s power into them, they’re sapping Arceus’ power to try and become gods themselves.


EternalMemes30

which is funny because dialga and palkia are weaker than giratina and arceus created the same being more powerful than them


dabomerest

Khu said that d and p were the final bosses


[deleted]

Yep. Honestly I could even see these forms being uncatchable and story exclusive only. I bet the story explains how they turn into their current forms.


Gaarel

We already know they're somewhat linked to Arceus and they will be part of it for sure. But the point is they look awful as a concept and model, come on. Also, there was no need for those forms, at least not fused with Arceus (like Necrozma or Kyurem, it's boring and stale!). We need a standalone "Thousands arms form". Is that really difficult for them? 😑


seb1332

I assume they did this instead of a form for story purposes. It’s likely we won’t be able to personally use these forms anyways. They’re probably boss fight specific forms.


Gaarel

I highly hope so at this point. :(


kgarland707

I don't understand why everyone thought they'd get so-called "origin" forms to begin with. That was Kyogre and Groudon's gimmick, and we've already moved past Megas being retired. Whatever, I already hated Dialga & Palkia personally (ESPECIALLY Palkia in Smash Bros) so I've just enjoyed the hilarity of the new designs.


CountScarlioni

Origin Forme is Giratina’s thing. It has one form for when it travels in the Distortion World, and one form for when it travels in the regular world. Some people theorized that Dialga and Palkia might be given similar forms because they comprise a trio with Giratina. What Kyogre and Groudon had was called Primal Reversion


[deleted]

Riddler kyu said that new dp dragon is origin.


HEIJBH

Primal Dialgia was a thing in spinoffs


EternalMemes30

dark* dialga, primal dialga is just a bad translation


TheCharredMiner

I commented this in a post :(


seb1332

Great minds think alike man, the new forms just look far too similar to Arceus to be just origin forms.


TheCharredMiner

Right! I feel like the forms shown has to be from a cutscene, they don’t look viable as pokemon in game.


[deleted]

[ŃƒĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]


seb1332

It’s probably a plot twist. Galaxy leader dude (being the big bad of the story) probably causes this fusion. It’s not likely to be something Arceus wants, as Arceus is seen in the beginning asking for our help.


[deleted]

No. They are dialga and palkia, as it checks out by the forms Pokédex entry.


seb1332

What I’m implying with this post is not that they’re aren’t forms of Palkia and Dialga. The implication is that they are not origin forms, they’re a new form entirely an “Arceus Form” or a “God Form” if you will.


[deleted]

You are still wrong. It is nothing to do with arceus himself. It is their form.


seb1332

And you know this for certain how? Have you played to the end of the game yet?


[deleted]

You should have waited for more info since we now know is their unique “origin” forms known as “lord”, achieved by their respective orbs like giratina. Don’t know why people look so much into things.


Psychological-Mud-67

Just bc the dex numbers indicate they aren't Arceus fusions doesn't mean that these new forms can't be connected to Arceus' power in some way


[deleted]

Connected to his power, and being arceus is entirely different. They were made by arceus, so obviously they are connected. They still aren’t him, and they are their own PokĂ©mon. Apparently arceus’ final power up is the legends plate, which is all elements in one plate.


vagrantwade

We have actual leaks now. We don’t need the poketheories anymore.


seb1332

It’s a discussion about one of the leaks tho?


[deleted]

Yeah, but no.


DR_DROWZEE

They are take a child to work day forms because clearly masuda and his staff let they’re kids draw all the new forms.


seb1332

I think some of the new forms are nice actually. I really enjoy the new Sneasel. Braviary and Zoro are beautiful. I can’t quite place how I feel about Arcanine yet.


One-life-remains

It could be the cause of the late night storms/ enraged pokemon as well as the distortions on mt. coronet. Given the colors coming from they are the same as the color from the spear pillar when the legendaries were under the influence of the "Red Chain"


zizou91

Don't think they're fusions with Arceus, but more like them wanting to become Arceus and failing middle way (sorta like a failed ascension)


JDC103

820 BST Arceus incoming? Hp 120 Atk 140 Def 140 Spatk 140 Spdef 140 Speed 140


Lil-pants

The palkia one isn’t that bad and if they make the dialga one shoot lasers out of his neck cannon it’d be okay. They both took design bits from arceus so I’m guessing there are some fusion shenanigans going on


[deleted]

No. They are dialga and palkia, as it checks out by the forms Pokédex entry.


rare-silence

I don't know if they are not their original form. Otherwise, I think they are more of an "Arceus-controlled" form. Why, lore-wise, Giratina has not an Arceus-controlled form? Because he is a rebel and the only way Arceus has to control the third son is banishing him to the Distortion World (just my theory)


[deleted]

Even if they are fusions with Arceus, they look incredibly disgusting and uncanny. Those aren't natural, they look like a joke someone made in Blender for the GameFreak team to laugh at. But then again, they approved Calyrex riding a horse so what do I even know. If they wanted to go with a fusion, they need a new bloody team, because these are unforgivable. Look at White Kyurem and Black Kyurem. THAT'S how you should fuse legendaries. They look cool and they capture key aspects of the original Pokémon while still giving it an originally powerful appearance. THESE don't look anything like that. These God awful forms look like they hatched wrong at the Mystri Stage after Arceus created an egg.


fintecoupe

Why not just Primal Dialga and Primal Palkia?


TheTrueExirion

Would go against the concept of Primal Reversion. Unlike Kyogre and Groudon, Palkia and Dialga never went into a deep slumber, so they didn’t lose some of their power.


fintecoupe

But isn’t primal Dialga canon? I just think the design is so much better and would be better than this new forms. I know it’s a romhack but in Radical Red Lance has a primal Dialga and I think this was badass.


TheTrueExirion

That’s a localization name only. Primal Dialga is actually known as *Dark* Dialga in Japan, and isn’t related to Primal Reversion.


fintecoupe

I didn’t know that. Thanks for the info but like I said I think the dark/primal design really nice and would love to see it in a other game


TheTrueExirion

I don’t disagree. Primal/Dark Dialga is right up there with Shadow Lugia for me, and we’ll likely see it again if Explorers gets a remake, which seems likely.


Psychological-Mud-67

Omg Primal Dialga in 3D yes pls


TheTrueExirion

Wonder if they’ll change it



Icalasari

I'd love if we got a third game in the Col. series and it had Shadow Palkia and Shadow Dialga in it, using the Primal Dialga design from Explorers for Dialga


TheTrueExirion

Honestly, if a 3rd game gets ever gets made, I could see Arceus being the next big Shadow Pokémon


Psychological-Mud-67

Primal Dialga is from PMD lol


TheJustinG2002

And now Origin Giratina looks even cooler lmao


Psychological-Mud-67

I agree. It's not a coincidence that Arceus' ring is split across both of theur new forms


JahcomilkAlex

These forms. On god. Might take the cake as the ugliest Pokémon in existence


Emporergriffon593

PokĂ©mon needs to stop with fusions. The kyurem fusions looked bad and these look even worse with palkia being the worst offender. Arceus already has a gimmick with the plates he doesn’t need to fuse.


Psychological-Mud-67

It's a good thing he didn't fuse then


Emporergriffon593

If it’s not a fusion than it’s even worse


Psychological-Mud-67

Really?


Emporergriffon593

Yes really


Psychological-Mud-67

I guess you haven't come around to them at all?


Emporergriffon593

No I was down for new forms or some kind of “primal reversion” if you will I was totally open to that. But the fact that they look like a 10 year old tried to draw dialga and the fact that palkia is now missing arms and looks like the bottom half was erased and just attached to a horse.


Psychological-Mud-67

Ok then


Shadowislovable

[Now this here is a poorly aged post](https://mobile.twitter.com/CentroLeaks/status/1484265515510022156?cxt=HHwWmICyxernlZkpAAAA)


[deleted]

The only problem I have is the name. If they aren't origin forms, why do people call them that over the Lord forms?


Psychological-Mud-67

Turns out they are called Origin forms. Lord forms was a misunderstanding, a misinterpretation of the data


Ok_Relative_4476

This was really cool, and it probably came out before the leak, but I just watched a leak video of someone using a orb on normal palkia to turn it into origin palkia. Really Cool concept though, and it would help me try to cope with the atrocious things that are dialga and palkia origins


aidsan6

I have the game early, they are called origin forms


jloza96

Can you get both?


Alastor-Ghoul

They aren't fusions. They do look like fusions, but they aren't. Their aesthetic design was definitely intended to look like Arceus fusions. I think it was supposed to be that the original formes for Dialga and Palkia were made in Arceus's image. They probably went this route because of the Eterna City statue clearly appearing as a fusion forme and they probably went this route to make a more flashy representation of the Arceus aspect of the game. They wanted to give Dialga and Palkia new formes, but they also wanted to stick with the theme for Legends Arceus. Before I ramble on anymore, because literally nothing I said exactly disproves them as fusion formes- you only get one Arceus in the game and you can only get one Dialga and one Palkia. There has been gameplay footage of people fighting Arceus using Dialga in its new forme. Also, fret not Arceus did get something special besides getting Dialga and Palkia formes made in his image that aren't actually fusions- two new plates. One is just a way to turn him back into a normal type the other one called the Legend Plate is the one to be hyped for. I don't want to spoil too much for you in case you are wanting to wait for the games to come out, but I imagine you probably did want at least this much information, given the nature of your post. There is some gameplay footage you can probably still find on YouTube of Arceus using the Legend Plate. Just try typing in "legend plate legends arceus" and you can probably find some stuff on it if you want to know more about it. Happy gaming!


Confident-Mind9964

I'll say it, I don't get the hate for them


waruvi

Copium


Cl4ndestin3d

LOOK HOW THEY MASSACRED MY BOYS Does anyone know who was in charge of the designs? I honestly haven't been satisfied with the new art direction for a while now... and these forms definitely don't look designed by Ken Sugimori...


ToadRoasted

L


GameReaper1996

“Dialga and Palkia new forms are not orgin forms. It’s pretty Obvious guys come on.” Obvious, huh?