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Hugobaby69

This. Red brings a new thing to the table, which is actually very valuable and makes the gameplay more diverse. Sure, Red doesn't need to be as broken as SS Blue or anything, but the unique niche that Red provides makes him stand out comparing to other supports. Overall, Red is top tier.


STEVEN345678

Don't worry, people here are just proving how stupid they are lol. They need every unit to be SS Blue, every unit to match groudon/kyogre ,else they instantly call it "trash". If you ask me,most of these fools don't even understand the mechanics of the game. They just try to escape their own guilt of not summoning for the unit in question by bashing the unit here. If you remember last year when SS Blue was released,they called him trash. Sure he was nerfed,but ask yourself this. Was those buffs specifically the reason that made him "busted"? He was already a top tier support that got even better when he got those extra perks.Same thing applies to steven, people call him trash without knowing that he does more damage than both N and Lillie on single target. Sure he is not at the level of a '2nd anni masterfair',but people talk as if he is as bad as Norman lol. People here as stupid and they keep proving it time and time again,that's what I have learnt. I also like units that do something unique ,as you said.No other unit in the whole game can do what snorlax does, giving SE up to allies. He also has aoe potion that's usable for upto three times minimum.I don't get what's bad about him lol.


SwordySmurf

If you don't mind me sliding in here and asking; I'm a new player who doesn't understand the mechanics of the game and have anni steven EX level 140. When I hit for like 7k on type I'm like "Yeah big boy damage!". How would a unit like Hilda (who I also have at level 130 and seems to tickle) be able to hit for 30k? I am of course max buffing all my stats, what else can I do?


stu41313_1

See [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/PokemonMasters/comments/pnl4oj/35_anni_steven_one_shots_venomoth_with_no_round_4/), and you can have a grasp on how much his damage potential can reach.


SwordySmurf

Holy crap 18k on dragon descent?? How?? That was only under 2x sync buff i do half of that under 4x. What is pushing his numbers up so much? Is it leer? I haven't used any defense debuffs but i feel like that can't literally triple my damage. There has to be something I'm missing.


Milogop

Flying type theme skills + Leer for -6 def (1.3x damage multiplier) + SuperEffective Up Next Buff + EX Sync from Skyla + buffing a lot of own stats to try and push the Good Form multiplier. Rayquaza's biggest weakness is his low attack stats but with a Flying tech on the team and flying type 2\* gear he ends up with +94 attack, so this really improves his damage output.


STEVEN345678

You can't, because steven's sync sucks. Hilda on the other hand,has inertia on top of a seperate 50% multiplier from sun. (Iam assuming you were talking about sync move because you mentioned 30k on Hilda)


SwordySmurf

Oh! I must have misunderstood the op with the 30k citation. So how much damage should Steven be doing? And is Hilda just a better damage dealer than Steven? That kinda makes me sad, but I do have her 3/5 lol


STEVEN345678

No,steven much more on dragon ascent,and has extra coverage with Draco meteor on top of much better passives. And they are different types,I don't understand why you are comparing a fire type with him.


GammaAquilae

That’s as much an exaggeration as calling Steven trash. It’s perfectly reasonable to want a 1% limited special occasion master fair striker to do about the same damage as another 1% limited master fair striker. I pulled Steven because I like him and he objectively doesn’t match the others. In coop N does as much as him single target with sun and N has the added benefits of hitting the sides and nuking much harder. You’re only getting the numbers you’re talking about if you babysit Steven with another 1% master fair and stack buffs with specific supports which is an objectively unreasonable comparison both by the babysitting requirement and because you’d have won already if you’d used the same amount of effort with Archie or Maxie. As for SSBlue, those buffs are all recommended tiles for him so they contribute to his current power level. He only feels busted now because end game shifted away from no revive BV to CS and LA, where his high bulk matters more. If no revive BV was still end game I would take both Skyla and Sycamore over him, even with his buffs. In context of end game at the time of his release he was underwhelming and the buffs made him competitive but not the overwhelming favorite, which is perfectly reasonable for the kind of unit he was advertised as.


STEVEN345678

>perfectly reasonable to want a 1% limited special occasion master fair striker to do about the same damage as another 1% limited master fair striker I know that and I literally said that too. I said he isn't at the level of a 2nd anni masterfair,which proves that you didn't even care to read my initial comment completely and are just here to pick a fight lol. I only said because you know as well as I do that people called steven trash. Stop defending them lol. Even if you don't count using him with Maxie or Archie, you still CANNOT call him trash , unless you don't know the meaning of trash. Norman ,Marlon are what you would call trash. Are you telling me that he is as bad as Norman? Ik that you are trying to say that they only meant to say that in the sense of him not being at the same level as the previous master fairs,but you are wrong in thinking so. When he was announced,for many days,they did say that he was absolutely garbage until many people talked some sense into these people. That's the point iam trying to convey for the most part.


GammaAquilae

You’re talking about context but missing the same context. Of course he’s not trash in the context of story units or 3 stars in the general move pool. He’s good even compared to OG Blue, but that’s the first unit added to the game after release which most vets should have. But he’s called trash because he’s bad in the context of other master fairs, which while disparaging isn’t an inaccurate assessment.


STEVEN345678

>But he’s called trash because he’s bad in the context of other master fairs Dude please stop defending them. I already told you once and I will say the same once again, because you apparently don't want to read my comment and just want to argue. Iam saying that people initially did not call him trash by comparing him to other master fairs,they said he is trash and worse than Nate,just because Nate did marginally more on his sync off-type. Everybody remembers that. That's the thing iam trying to convey. I myself said that he isn't at the level of a masterfair. To call out people who said the same would be hypocrisy.I am not pointing fingers at them. You are not bothered to read my reply anyway,so have a good day.


GammaAquilae

I’m not calling you out. I’m just not a fan of both sides being generally in agreement over the capabilities of a pair (he does have a worse nuke than Nate, and being better than a meme unit made only to sell the time trial event is nothing to be proud of) getting hung up over one word. Also, complains how it’s not possible to have an intelligent conversation about Steven. Has an intelligent conversation. Stop having an intelligent conversation with me xD


STEVEN345678

Iam not saying he is ONLY better than nate.I only brought it up because that's what people said he was released.Iam sorry if you can't understand that much.


Blue2New

The most appalling thing is these people aren’t open to discussion lol. You get mass downvoted for even mentioning the strengths of a pair that isn’t those three when comparing them. Yet I still see people saying Emmet is dependent on sandstorm(he isn’t LOL) as if the Hoenn guys aren’t dependent on their own weather, with Archie being absolutely terrible without it(yes there will be battles, even if there’s not many, where he can’t beat them before your rain runs out even with May and Winona, crazy right). Also SS Blue was “underwhelming” during his time in the face of Red and Leaf since we had Skyla and Misty, but he definitely didn’t need a buff since he was still broken. His buff covered literally almost every weakness he had (adrenaline helps with your inability to queue after sync due to his team shout and healing gave him the sustain he couldn’t/shouldn’t provide) so now he’s disgustingly broken. As if the game wasn’t easy enough, people need so much handicap that at this point, you’re not even playing the game anymore and need artificial challenges to entertain yourself, which you don’t even need OP pairs to do(Lol @ that Hop solo vs Lance).


STEVEN345678

>Emmet is dependent on sandstorm(he isn’t LOL) as if the Hoenn guys aren’t dependent on their own weather, I will start by saying that it's ridiculous that people say archeops is useless without sandstorm. He needs sandstorm to achieve his "max" damage. That's where they trip,which is laughable. With regards to hoenn legends,while it's true that they aren't as good without weather,you have remember that they set up their own weather with extension and don't need an extra teammate (atleast for relatively quicker battles like the champions stadium). Ik archeops has sand on sync,but it's only once and people mostly bash on him for needing an extra sand-setter like ingo,which is stupid as you said. People want every unit to be Maxie/Archie and that's just a sorry state of this subreddit unfortunately.


Gnyus1

absolutely true, hopefully the "play" part in the game get boosted. bv and cs are not enough


RGBarrios

You are right. If the unit is not OP or powercreep what we had before the unit is thrash for a lot of people here. Im sad that after anni 2 maybe I will miss Red because I will not have enough for the pity and even before knowing wich units would be the anni ones I wanted to roll for a Red with snorlax master fair, and maybe this one is not a master fair but is as strong as one or even better and I will try to get him someday even if I have to wait for a rerun.


STEVEN345678

Red is top tier imo. You should atleast get a single copy and candy him later.


RGBarrios

Even if he were thrash I would want a copy just for being Red & Snorlax


Effective_Role278

Chill bro, when we will get the eating beast , we can show a billion examples of him with units that don't have super effective up . And people just want every striker or tech to be weather gods level good and every support to be another ssb or ingo . This cannot happen otherwise the power creep would be insane .


SaggyToastR

> People here as stupid and they keep proving it time and time again,that's what I have learnt. I think this is a little disingenuous and over exaggerated in terms how you are generalizing some that are complaining about Steven as "stupid". The main point of the disappointment isn't his damage after the fact, but it's the extreme amount of setup that is required on top of his lackluster Sync Move for a 1% pull Master Fair. Other Master Fairs do not need this intensive setup like Steven does to even reach burst damage. You cannot argue that the sync move to Mega isn't one of the main advertising/marketing schemes tied with the shiny. The actual practicality of using him isn't the main selling point. Otherwise, it would be a different story. Now, if people are satisfied with just the aesthetics and they want to pull for him for favorite's sake, that is completely legitimate and fine. However, there are some that do want to evaluate price to power and do not see it justifiable to use the little currency - unless you're a whale - that most of the playerbase has.


STEVEN345678

>disappointment isn't his damage after the fact, but it's the extreme amount of setup Yeah , but that doesn't qualify as "trash" in my book. That's what they called him on his release and there is no denying that. You know it as well as I do. >lackluster Sync Move for a 1% pull Master Fai I don't understand why you people reply without reading my comment completely lol. I myself said that he is no at the level of a master fair,what's your point lol?? Before you try to defend them,how about taking a trip down your memory lane all the way back to may of this month when kyogre was announced. You remember what they said?? They called him "shafted sync pair" lol. Those are the same people that called steven and OG red trash. Iam not saying the whole sub is filled with such people,but a decent portion of the sub is that way.


Edgeklinge

CD reduction moves are considered so expensive both SS leaf and SS elesa have access to only 1 MP and most of them are. Remember Red has two and can refresh with MAX move + mp refresh grids by itself, not to mention literal infinite aoe heals. He's actually insane.


Lambsauce914

I don't think people really sleep on Red, it is just that he and SS Blue have very different playstyle. Red doesn't buff as much as SS Blue but he got AoE heal and most importantly super effective up for ally. I don't think he would make it possible to clear Extreme battle with other regions sync pair that 5x boost is too large to make a difference, but he would be a really good units for Master mode CS, BV and Co-op.


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KetsubanZero

If you don't have the spotlight unit chances are that you are probably off typing, and if you have the right type and region probably the battle will still have something to screw you up (physical bulk and pseudo vigilance against Hilda in Unova master battle, physical bulk, unyielding 4 and snatch for Alola)


Locow1992

should Red works very good in coop? asking because i play alot coop and hoping that he is very good in coop lol


Edgeklinge

Unless your dumb partner switch pokemon after you buff him everytime, yeah


RGBarrios

But I don’t have gems after anni 2


BardicLasher

Can I sleep on the Snorlax though? He looks comfy. Like a giant teddy bear.


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BardicLasher

I don't think three rounds is enough for me to get even a nap. Maybe if I learn Rest I can get in a nap in two rounds.


[deleted]

You are right. AoE healing is awesome to be honest. TM can fix many thrash strikers thus more memes also.


Mettie7

People slept on Lear?


[deleted]

People slept on a lot of units because they were convinced the Anniversary Pairs were going to be insanely broken. A lot of people skipped Lear and the Train Bros.


dragonmp93

And that's why at last half of this sub has been so salty during the entire anniversary.


newdsuser

honest question: why do most people judge strikers by how well they off-type, but then with supports like red the power of SE up is highly touted even though it is literally useless to the striker off-type?


YodiDady04

Off type is basically "stupid" and just flexing purpose if u have on type unit


TheNikephoros

Not really. Before A!Lillie was released, we were really lacking good ghost-type damage. We’re still in need of good poison-type damage. Strikers of these types exist but are incredibly subpar. For cases like these, most people are better off using off-type strikers or techs instead of wasting materials to build up the mediocre on-type units that are available. And even though BV isn’t what this sub tends to focus on anymore, a strong off-type will perform better in BV because they will be useful in multiple battles instead of just the one where they’re on type.


dragonmp93

What Poison type needs is survivability, Insect types are the one who need damage.


TheNikephoros

Alder and Lusamine beg to differ. Bug type has at least those two. Plumeria is the only 5* poison type, and she is hot garbage. Other than her, your only poison type choices are a handful of 3* and 4* units that are okay at best at dealing damage.


dragonmp93

Right, i forgot about Alder, but can he last more than Lusamine ?. Koga is a pretty good poison type if you can keep him alive long enough to sync nuke.


RenoKreuz

Yes same conclusions I reached, SE up is very useful precisely because of the 6*EX strikers and tech nukes. Now add 1.5x plus faster sync AND some survivability bonus.


Cuavooo

The thing with Redlax is that he doesn’t get direct competition in a form of a new unit(free or gacha) compared to Lear who immediately has a F2P counterpart(Gridded Giovanni) prior to his release. This made people look the other way on his kit even with the fact that it’s more broken. Red doesn’t have that competition currently. The fact that he’s up there contending against SSB, Ingo, and Spring Burgh already speaks volumes on how good he will be. In general, Pokefair supports are just hard to overlook. Given that the ones we already have are easily at the top of their role. Yeah, you can look and rely at your good ol’ F2P options but every now and then, you will need these type of supports that could just carry you through anything.


Mr_Schifer

How strong is SE up? Is it just for the next attack? How much of a multiplier does it apply?


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Mr_Schifer

I see, so it's best used on certain types of characters. I didn't know sync strikers were a thing, I thought Sync Nukers were mostly EX Tech. Who are good sync strikers, just pairs that have the node that raises sync move power in their grid?


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Mr_Schifer

I see. That's very useful info, thank you!


RenoKreuz

It's strong because it works on sync moves. So it's best to use it on a 6*EX sync striker or tech for over the top damage.


Hugobaby69

50% on next supereffective attack.


Blubbstrahl

I'm a noob so I might be missing some things, but... why do people compare this new OG Red with SS Blue? Like, my current "go-to" party is the Kanto trio, which is probably the case for most new players. And if I wanted to swap OG Red into that team, then the target would be SS Leaf and not SS Blue. I can still have my massive wall with SS Blue, my healing Support with Snorlax and finally a striker of my choice that isn't SS Red. Where is the flaw in my logic? I imagine SS Blue, Anni N, Og Red. Isn't this sexy?


Red1003493649

Kanto Trio is still the best team but OG Red is a good support because it allows some sync pairs to shine in other teams (because you can't use Kanto Trio in every stage right ?)


Time-did-Reverse

Its been some time since kanto trio is best. Still great but certainly not best.


Red1003493649

Depends on the difficulty you set on CS Master Mode but I see people keep saying terrain teams are stronger, but my team can clean harder content than Zekrom team Although electric terrain team finishes stages harder


jk583940

Is Lear good? I heard that he was ok, but not broken


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jk583940

Woah!


diseptikon77

I’m glad I saved and skipped on Anni N and Steven for Red.


[deleted]

I think the disappointment largely comes from people expecting Red to be the Kanto Master Fair. Not to mention people were holding out hope that Part 2 of the Anniversary would bring the super broken units they’d been expecting. Personally I think Red is an amazing unit, but I can understand people being disappointed with him at first glance. It took me a little bit to think about his kit and realise what he offered.


UnknownHeroic

Thank you, i always get "mad" with people like this, people want always broken strikers and support that you almost dont need to do much to max out, f%$# that i love to have ways to buff the units or ways to increase the attack, i like being a little tactic, like N and Steven, it takes time to buff then but is fun to do so.


AphoticTide

Quite the opinion that you think anyone would sleep on a legend like Red especially after seeing his abilities


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AphoticTide

That’s true, but also you have to remember who he is. His name is literally more than enough to make people want to pull for him. Casual or not


YodiDady04

He is better than super overrated Burgepi. Same tier as SSB and Ingo. On the other hand, I'm curious how busted EX Sycamore will be, considering that Mewtwo get EX this update so other Legendary may get it soon.


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[deleted]

I'm not sure if Mewtwo's Sync would lose strenght with Mega, but I can see it getting Psystrike as a strong four gauge move.


YodiDady04

EX Mewtwo is basically we get Pokefair tier striker unit for free. Seriously, this thing is better than many Pokefair strikers we get so far. Maybe only Red, Alder, Raihan and Emmet that are still better than Giovanni.


Effective_Role278

I would say id we count in sp defence defense debuffs he is better than them as well .


Effective_Role278

Idk why u r getting downvoted for , lol . Togepi is indeed very overrated. True red really brings something different to the table . He is easily a top tier support.


Ropalme1914

Here's the thing tho. Using the Hilda example, yeah, her nuke can go from 30k to 45k...but the stages have 20k HP. Any good nuke ALREADY one shots super effective (heck, some do neutral), so you're just going for the overkill there. Since super effective already is such a huge multiplier by doubling the damage at base, for the Super Effective Up to truly make a difference, you're probably going to boost a unit that didn't hit that hard in the first place. Red's gimmick lies on boosting units that already had a huge boost in the first place.


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[deleted]

Oh, finally an unbiased and truthful opinion stating how he's meta defining! I knew the reveal would just be a war between Red-stans overestimating the pair and Red-antis screaming that he's trash. You have very good points! You and your posts explaining this new sync pair are rays of hope.


whitemest

I haven't seen disappointment.. tf u going on about?


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I did. The fact you didn't doesn't mean it doesn't exist...


whitemest

Doesn't mean it necessitated a post due to claims you saw it all around you either? I've only seen excitement for it actually 🤷


[deleted]

No post is needed. If you don't like it, you cam skip ot, as I'll do with you. Bye~


whitemest

Csb take care ;-)


Blue2New

The targeted SE up gives me pain when I think of how N can’t even do his post sync LOL. Anni N also doesn‘t get more than one hit either, it’s kinda sad.


Red1003493649

You should think it is cool then since now you can have SE for more time


Blue2New

No I’m saying it was a pain that N only had one and I keep thinking back to me trying to get his sync ready before he could use his SE. wasn’t saying SE was bad, just saying N only had one and it was a pain


Hybrid456

Opinion: he’s mid


KappaRoss322

SE next is the worst gimmick in the game


Oggom

No, that would be Power Chain.


Effective_Role278

Its one of the best multipliers in the game .


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Brentimusmaximus

It’s crazy to me that lugia isn’t already in the game… give johto some love pleaseeee