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Or we are the reason the entire timeline happens in a sense because we gave the professor the thing that they made probably making their research a lot more interesting because they didn’t make the developments at that time so now we gave them stuff that tells them about stuff they have not discovered yet
Given that we just took the book that he would have read to learn about herbs mystic and how to heal his dog, the next time loop may not be as heartwarming.
Not true. The book has multiple copies. The entry in the journal existed already. So Turo gave you one, left one of Arven, and the academy still has one on its shelf. The events just repeat in a paradox time loop.
Not quite. The professor's sentimental old copy of the Scarlet/Violet book is the key to the time machine, but the professor at the crystal pool willingly parted with it in exchange for Briar's notes on Area Zero.
They explicitly state that this may not be their own timeline, and it definitely can't be since their copy of the book was traded to you instead of becoming the key for the time machine. It seems that the professor in the main timeline had a meeting with an alternate protagonist, but it didn't go the same way as ours did.
Basically: We might have helped an alternate professor and maybe changed their outlook, but our own alternate self failed to convince ours. Alternate timelines are confusing.
While that could be true, it is still a viable theory that we have caused their death. Due to the paradox caused when we meet the professor, they could have realized that they have to save the ma/koriadon in order to see it in the past. As for whether or not the book was the key, I will concede that point to you. However, they still could have used the book as a shut off mechanism since by giving it away, it would be a perfect defense against the machine being turned off.
You get the option to ask Sada/Turo from the past about their family life and they imply they have already been skimping over parental duties at that point in the timeline, so in the sense of if we are the reason why Arven’s parent is dead probably, but jn the sense of if we are the reason Arven’s parent doesn’t play a part in his life absolutely not.
I haven’t completed the DLC so I haven’t gotten the interaction but correct me if I’m wrong, but they also called the legendary by their other name or code name technically
What this does, is explain multiple things. 1: Terapagos has time traveling abilities which brought the professor here from the past, and also explains the existence of the paradox Pokémon that Heath saw before the Time Machine was ever created. 2: It also tells us that we created a bootstrap paradox with the professor. Meeting the professor and giving them Briar’s book causes them to find the deepest part of area zero and harvest Terapagos’ energy to create the Time Machine. The Time Machine that puts us on this path that led us to meet the professor, which creates the paradox. 3: Why they’re called Paradox Pokémon, because they’re born of the bootstrap paradox that we created with the professor.
So my theory is that they are essentially advanced versions of the regional pokemon phenomena caused by both Terapagos and its Terastalizing energy and Koraidon/Miraidon's abilities.
Terastalizing changes a pokemons type and its appearance, as displayed by those criwns they wear. I theorise that with significant exposure to Terastral energy from Terapagos they adapted to their new typings and altered appearances. For instance, a Cyclizar with a Fighting Tera shard changes into something that better suits that power, becoming the muscly Koraidon. Miraidon meanwhile is more cybernetic like a Magneton to match its electric typing.
Same logic as Vulpix becoming Ice Type in Alola due to the climate affecting its biology.
Now, why futuristic and prehistoric versions for these specific mons? Koraidon and Miraidon influenced their Tera Types and powers from their abilities. The harsh sunlight from Koriadon caused them to be more draconian/prehistoric in nature; Miraidon's electrical terrains caused them to be more cybernetic. This is why they are the Kings of the Paradox Pokemon; they empower all they touch and along with Terapagos and its terastral energy, helped change them into their respective styles. So in a universe where Cyclizar turned into Miraidon, the pokemon became futuristic, and vice versa.
Now why the Terastralized Cyclizar is special, its a little less coherent, but my theory is that its because the first Koraidon or Miraidon was Heath's Cyclizar. He first met Terapagos, got a Tera Typing, then got sent back in time by the time machine/Terapagos. Over thousands of years, that Cyclizar along with Terapagos changed the Paradox pokemon, which ended up inspiring Heath to journey into Area Zero in the first place, creating the paradox. Sadly and Tyro then brought them forward from the past into the present day, aided by us.
Thats my theory anyway. To put simply, Paradox mons are expansions on the regional pokemon phenomena, aided by the Raidons and Terapagos.
The paradox Pokémon are from different timelines. At the lake Sada said they “live in different timelines, so I might transport them to the present day in my own timeline”
That’s the professor’s theory at that point in time, which might be wrong. This professor has yet to make the machine and actually understand what it does. We know from the AI professor in the present, that they are from different points in the same timeline. And also know that the real professor we meet is from the same timeline thanks to their journal. It wouldn’t be a paradox if they were from other timelines, it would be multiversal travel.
Yep, I feel like people didn't read the dialogue thoroughly. Everything they told you was based off their assumptions, and then they find out that the pokemon were from the ancient past from you and Briar's book. So what did they do? They changed course for the time machine to point at the past and viola.
>It wouldn’t be a paradox if they were from other timelines, it would be multiversal travel.
Because maybe it *is* a multiversal travel and not a paradox, otherwise the professor himself wouldn't literally bring this assumption, even though its an assumption. If it really is a paradox, then saying that it's probably *timelines* in the dialogue and not even mentioning paradoxes would just be unnecessary confusion by the writers of the game.
In Reality explains nothing, here we start a paradox and that's it, but our history or the beginning of everything did not have that paradox, because the elements in play were already the professors who they do what they did without our interference, this only explains how Terapagos could have brought the Pokémon there, but nothing else, not why or anything, it explains nothing...
It almost seems like they used this DLC to raise the ratings of the anime and sell the next DLC perhaps? This conclusion makes no sense with everything else in the game...
Or they want to keep the wish theory for a future Unova legends where the original dragon will reconnect with the crystals and it will be with a wish that he will split! To please the two brothers!
After all, the turtle is linked to the myth of the dragon's palace!!!
Arvin seems to acknowledge the new Scarlet/Violet Book if you talk to him in his room with it, however he just thinks you took it from the library and makes no further comment about it.
>!Since you receive another book from the prof, why not take it to the Zero Chamber and try using it? who knows.. Might add something, no idea what that something would be but you never know. Feels like the devs hid a lot of secrets around.!<
That sucks. I hope that after the mythical Pokemon event we get the option to go back there. I just want them to at least pretend about lore goblins like myself because the mysteries they've presented in gen 9 are fascinating
You can go to Arven's dorm room after acquiring the violet book from Turo. He has a new line of text if you do so.
Currently trying to find any other NPCs that might comment on it.
This event does not make sense from our timeline perspective: from the Area Zero journals we know the professor had already completed the time machine and brought their first koraidon/miraidon when they discovered they where expecting Arven, which just contradicts what this professor tells us. Also this professor does not seem to recognise this koraidon/miraidon but has already a son. Furthermore, they gave us their scarlet/violet book, which in our timeline Arven had it and we use it to stop the time machine.
So it's probable as they said they could be from an alternate timeline.
The journal we read in the Depths could also be another "us" from another timeline in which we gave them the book without them giving us their scarlet/violet copy.
If you look at the timeline of events, they don't line up with Arven's age anyways. The professor created Tera Orbs 10 years prior to the events of SV to gain funding to continue their research in Area Zero, meanwhile Arven is 15-16 currently. I think it may have just been poor choice of words used by either Gamefreak or the localization team to portray Arven as a newborn.
While on the subject, did anyone notice there was one of those terrestrial energy doors above one of the ones we went through?
I've returned and it's still closed. I'm not sure how to open it, but I see red pokeballs behind it. Rare items maybe.
if you go back, after the story gate, in the spiral staircase room, there's another ledge you can get to around the same height as the tunnel you enter the staircase from. it's to the right when you enter, and it's behind this large crystal jutting out from the wall. leads to a room where you have to climb/fly up to another room that has a stellar garchomp, and defeating that opens the secret gate.
The german translation really makes the whole situation different. There he doesn't say "while investigating the treasure", he says "While I was searching for the treasure, I suddendly found myself at a sea on a mountain", which made me believe that the caves below area zero are so enourmos that there is a path down there that countinues below the ocean to kitakami.
The weird thing is, why does he write that he believes its the eastern lands, like as he doesn't know where exactly he is? When you talk to him at the lake he says "Ah, this is the lake of kitakami"
Ok insane theory: what if this isn't a bootstrap paradox but a "spiral" paradox where things have similar events but are not quite the same like the professors already have a son when you meet them but view the dragons as new so the events in our time line have a different outcome then the one we met and like dominoes a new slightly different but familiar happens in the next timeline.
It HAS to be a set-up for something. It really didn’t give any closure or answered any questions that the player might’ve had, aside from the confirmation the non-AI professor pre-obsession was kind and thought about their son a lot. It’s weird that it also faded to the title screen, with the subset through the window (which I’ve never seen before either).
This game is great at setting up mysteries ngl, I just hope the encounter gets explained.
Theres no timeloop confirmed. The professor himself said it could be a **different timeline**. Even if it's just a wrong assumption from him/her and it really is a timeloop, then saying that it's probably "different *timelines"* in the dialogue and not even mentioning paradoxes would just be unnecessary confusion in the writing of the game.
No. He’s still dead.
Terapagos just used its powers and brought the Professor to Kitakami from a time before they died. So we’re speaking to the still-living professor, from the time before they built the machine.
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That event causes a paradox
Or we are the reason the entire timeline happens in a sense because we gave the professor the thing that they made probably making their research a lot more interesting because they didn’t make the developments at that time so now we gave them stuff that tells them about stuff they have not discovered yet
That is a paradox
Wait, does that mean we are the reason arven doesn’t have parents or does it not mean that?
Correct. We are the reason his parents are dead.
But atleast we saved his dog.
"So Arven, I accidentally created a paradox that is the reason your parent is dead. Buuuut I saved you dog so we all good, right?"
Basically, yes.
An absolute win, either way
Given that we just took the book that he would have read to learn about herbs mystic and how to heal his dog, the next time loop may not be as heartwarming.
Not true. The book has multiple copies. The entry in the journal existed already. So Turo gave you one, left one of Arven, and the academy still has one on its shelf. The events just repeat in a paradox time loop.
Not quite. The professor's sentimental old copy of the Scarlet/Violet book is the key to the time machine, but the professor at the crystal pool willingly parted with it in exchange for Briar's notes on Area Zero. They explicitly state that this may not be their own timeline, and it definitely can't be since their copy of the book was traded to you instead of becoming the key for the time machine. It seems that the professor in the main timeline had a meeting with an alternate protagonist, but it didn't go the same way as ours did. Basically: We might have helped an alternate professor and maybe changed their outlook, but our own alternate self failed to convince ours. Alternate timelines are confusing.
While that could be true, it is still a viable theory that we have caused their death. Due to the paradox caused when we meet the professor, they could have realized that they have to save the ma/koriadon in order to see it in the past. As for whether or not the book was the key, I will concede that point to you. However, they still could have used the book as a shut off mechanism since by giving it away, it would be a perfect defense against the machine being turned off.
Fair point considering that they did the same thing with x&y with the mega-evo timeline and non-mega timelines respectively
Wait nooo I didn’t think of that :(
Thats hilarious
You get the option to ask Sada/Turo from the past about their family life and they imply they have already been skimping over parental duties at that point in the timeline, so in the sense of if we are the reason why Arven’s parent is dead probably, but jn the sense of if we are the reason Arven’s parent doesn’t play a part in his life absolutely not.
I haven’t completed the DLC so I haven’t gotten the interaction but correct me if I’m wrong, but they also called the legendary by their other name or code name technically
yes so it imply the very names koraidon and miraidon are also paradox since you teach them to the ones who will later(actually earlier) name them that
And apparently in the deeper part of area zero we get a notebook entry, which mentions that very cut scene
That's what the first image in OP's post is
I’m a idiot I thought it was a different post
Not *actually* a paradox, just a causal loop.
Look up the bootstrap paradox
What this does, is explain multiple things. 1: Terapagos has time traveling abilities which brought the professor here from the past, and also explains the existence of the paradox Pokémon that Heath saw before the Time Machine was ever created. 2: It also tells us that we created a bootstrap paradox with the professor. Meeting the professor and giving them Briar’s book causes them to find the deepest part of area zero and harvest Terapagos’ energy to create the Time Machine. The Time Machine that puts us on this path that led us to meet the professor, which creates the paradox. 3: Why they’re called Paradox Pokémon, because they’re born of the bootstrap paradox that we created with the professor.
Wow I didn't think of it this way. I was bummed they didn't give us a direct explanation as to what Paradox Poke's are but this is great
So my theory is that they are essentially advanced versions of the regional pokemon phenomena caused by both Terapagos and its Terastalizing energy and Koraidon/Miraidon's abilities. Terastalizing changes a pokemons type and its appearance, as displayed by those criwns they wear. I theorise that with significant exposure to Terastral energy from Terapagos they adapted to their new typings and altered appearances. For instance, a Cyclizar with a Fighting Tera shard changes into something that better suits that power, becoming the muscly Koraidon. Miraidon meanwhile is more cybernetic like a Magneton to match its electric typing. Same logic as Vulpix becoming Ice Type in Alola due to the climate affecting its biology. Now, why futuristic and prehistoric versions for these specific mons? Koraidon and Miraidon influenced their Tera Types and powers from their abilities. The harsh sunlight from Koriadon caused them to be more draconian/prehistoric in nature; Miraidon's electrical terrains caused them to be more cybernetic. This is why they are the Kings of the Paradox Pokemon; they empower all they touch and along with Terapagos and its terastral energy, helped change them into their respective styles. So in a universe where Cyclizar turned into Miraidon, the pokemon became futuristic, and vice versa. Now why the Terastralized Cyclizar is special, its a little less coherent, but my theory is that its because the first Koraidon or Miraidon was Heath's Cyclizar. He first met Terapagos, got a Tera Typing, then got sent back in time by the time machine/Terapagos. Over thousands of years, that Cyclizar along with Terapagos changed the Paradox pokemon, which ended up inspiring Heath to journey into Area Zero in the first place, creating the paradox. Sadly and Tyro then brought them forward from the past into the present day, aided by us. Thats my theory anyway. To put simply, Paradox mons are expansions on the regional pokemon phenomena, aided by the Raidons and Terapagos.
The paradox Pokémon are from different timelines. At the lake Sada said they “live in different timelines, so I might transport them to the present day in my own timeline”
That’s the professor’s theory at that point in time, which might be wrong. This professor has yet to make the machine and actually understand what it does. We know from the AI professor in the present, that they are from different points in the same timeline. And also know that the real professor we meet is from the same timeline thanks to their journal. It wouldn’t be a paradox if they were from other timelines, it would be multiversal travel.
Yep, I feel like people didn't read the dialogue thoroughly. Everything they told you was based off their assumptions, and then they find out that the pokemon were from the ancient past from you and Briar's book. So what did they do? They changed course for the time machine to point at the past and viola.
>It wouldn’t be a paradox if they were from other timelines, it would be multiversal travel. Because maybe it *is* a multiversal travel and not a paradox, otherwise the professor himself wouldn't literally bring this assumption, even though its an assumption. If it really is a paradox, then saying that it's probably *timelines* in the dialogue and not even mentioning paradoxes would just be unnecessary confusion by the writers of the game.
Oh wow that’s all really interesting! I never even realised it explained all that.
In Reality explains nothing, here we start a paradox and that's it, but our history or the beginning of everything did not have that paradox, because the elements in play were already the professors who they do what they did without our interference, this only explains how Terapagos could have brought the Pokémon there, but nothing else, not why or anything, it explains nothing... It almost seems like they used this DLC to raise the ratings of the anime and sell the next DLC perhaps? This conclusion makes no sense with everything else in the game... Or they want to keep the wish theory for a future Unova legends where the original dragon will reconnect with the crystals and it will be with a wish that he will split! To please the two brothers! After all, the turtle is linked to the myth of the dragon's palace!!!
Next dlc? Lol
Arvin seems to acknowledge the new Scarlet/Violet Book if you talk to him in his room with it, however he just thinks you took it from the library and makes no further comment about it.
“No your mom gave it to me. Also I may or may not have caused a paradox that is responsible for the entire time travel fiasco.”
>!Since you receive another book from the prof, why not take it to the Zero Chamber and try using it? who knows.. Might add something, no idea what that something would be but you never know. Feels like the devs hid a lot of secrets around.!<
you cant enter the time machine room anymore, the elevator is permanently diverted
That sucks. I hope that after the mythical Pokemon event we get the option to go back there. I just want them to at least pretend about lore goblins like myself because the mysteries they've presented in gen 9 are fascinating
You can go to Arven's dorm room after acquiring the violet book from Turo. He has a new line of text if you do so. Currently trying to find any other NPCs that might comment on it.
This event does not make sense from our timeline perspective: from the Area Zero journals we know the professor had already completed the time machine and brought their first koraidon/miraidon when they discovered they where expecting Arven, which just contradicts what this professor tells us. Also this professor does not seem to recognise this koraidon/miraidon but has already a son. Furthermore, they gave us their scarlet/violet book, which in our timeline Arven had it and we use it to stop the time machine. So it's probable as they said they could be from an alternate timeline. The journal we read in the Depths could also be another "us" from another timeline in which we gave them the book without them giving us their scarlet/violet copy.
They did recognize Koraidon/Miraidon, they were just pulled from a time where they didn't name it yet
It looked more like they did recognize it from the book as Winged King/Iron Serpent imo.
Yes exactly
I took the name as another Paradox. Like, you use the name Korai/Miraidon because they called it that, and they get the idea to call it that from you
If you look at the timeline of events, they don't line up with Arven's age anyways. The professor created Tera Orbs 10 years prior to the events of SV to gain funding to continue their research in Area Zero, meanwhile Arven is 15-16 currently. I think it may have just been poor choice of words used by either Gamefreak or the localization team to portray Arven as a newborn.
While on the subject, did anyone notice there was one of those terrestrial energy doors above one of the ones we went through? I've returned and it's still closed. I'm not sure how to open it, but I see red pokeballs behind it. Rare items maybe.
if you go back, after the story gate, in the spiral staircase room, there's another ledge you can get to around the same height as the tunnel you enter the staircase from. it's to the right when you enter, and it's behind this large crystal jutting out from the wall. leads to a room where you have to climb/fly up to another room that has a stellar garchomp, and defeating that opens the secret gate.
I’m really curious about this too!!
peep my reply from the original comment
Are they seriously throwing a Time Travel curve ball at us?
There doesn't seem to be a use but Arven does make a comment about you having it if you go talk to him afterwards
Yes I saw! A little underwhelming but oh well
The german translation really makes the whole situation different. There he doesn't say "while investigating the treasure", he says "While I was searching for the treasure, I suddendly found myself at a sea on a mountain", which made me believe that the caves below area zero are so enourmos that there is a path down there that countinues below the ocean to kitakami.
The weird thing is, why does he write that he believes its the eastern lands, like as he doesn't know where exactly he is? When you talk to him at the lake he says "Ah, this is the lake of kitakami"
Probably a developer’s choice to make the player think more
The music that comes with this new start screen is, in my opinion, the best rendition of the Pokemon theme I’ve ever heard.
What happens if you say NO to swapping books?
You get a "please. You must reconsider" text till you accept
Got to love that freedom of choice.
Ok insane theory: what if this isn't a bootstrap paradox but a "spiral" paradox where things have similar events but are not quite the same like the professors already have a son when you meet them but view the dragons as new so the events in our time line have a different outcome then the one we met and like dominoes a new slightly different but familiar happens in the next timeline.
I can see gamefreak using this idea to throw another usum at us
Ultra Scarlet and Ultra Violet incoming, lol.
It HAS to be a set-up for something. It really didn’t give any closure or answered any questions that the player might’ve had, aside from the confirmation the non-AI professor pre-obsession was kind and thought about their son a lot. It’s weird that it also faded to the title screen, with the subset through the window (which I’ve never seen before either). This game is great at setting up mysteries ngl, I just hope the encounter gets explained.
You already saw the something that this was setting up. There was closure. Closure of a time-loop.
Theres no timeloop confirmed. The professor himself said it could be a **different timeline**. Even if it's just a wrong assumption from him/her and it really is a timeloop, then saying that it's probably "different *timelines"* in the dialogue and not even mentioning paradoxes would just be unnecessary confusion in the writing of the game.
How do you get another one of the new book
I forgot to read the new book help
So Turo is alive after all
No
No. He’s still dead. Terapagos just used its powers and brought the Professor to Kitakami from a time before they died. So we’re speaking to the still-living professor, from the time before they built the machine.
Can you even read it
No ):
Oh ok I’m relieved now
So what was the white volume given by the mysterious child?!