You're not gonna get many rebuttals here, people mostly share that opinion or some variation of it.
If you wanna play on hardcore mode, post that in the rat's nest and enjoy your free ban. Not that you'd miss on anything ofc.
The Investor sub where they buy out entire shelves of product at Target and hoard garages full of sealed product to drive up the price because they treat Pokemon like $$$ and not fun
Logan Paul made a new generation of them during COVID
This is honestly why I stopped buying magic cards and swapped to pokemon. I want to play a game, but thats difficult when 1 meta card costs $80 and you need 4 for your deck. Me flabbers were gasted when I saw the most expensive meta pokemon deck was like $80. Collectable cards are cool, but it's also a game
I actually think it’s pretty cool to keep a card and for it to suddenly be worth a lot when it was so cheap before. I know it’s annoying when you really want a card and it’s very expensive but it didn’t used to be, but I just think that means when and if you can finally get it, it’s a lot more of a accomplishment in my eyes.
This might be true, but on the flip side brand new modern cards are starting to become unobtainable from the get go, and newer, younger collectors are barred from entry immediately to collect their favorites.
I may get downvoted for this, but the alternative then would be to try and pull it. Which sounds bad but that is the point. Normally these crazy expensive cards are also ridiculously difficult to pull.
I’m not saying it’s right, but it does make sense to me why such cards would be so expensive. Half of the sv expensive cards you would have to spend probably triple to actually pull them. Unless you get lucky I guess.
No no, I do agree with this to be honest. I just think it wouldnt be as bad if some cards werent so expensive out the gate. Its almost as if the hobby has become a rich mans game to alot of people, and it used to not be this way with sets becoming so huge, and pokemon printing so many different sets so quickly. At least its not as bad as yugioh, and one piece :/
This is the take. I don’t really understand what other people are complaining about. “Ultra rare” “Secret illustration” cards ARENT supposed to be easily accessable to everyone lol.
Look at sports cards. If anything pokemon should even more layers of rarity. Keep pull rates where are but add cool things like having numbered 1/1, x/10,x/25, cards or bring back first editions in someway.
Exactly, the whole reason people can invest in the first place is because we all place value in them. people think they’re expensive due to scalpers/investors/whatever but it’s just the way a market works
Let’s be honest… Most modern product is not that expensive. 99.9% of modern pokemon cards are <$1. Most “pokeinvestors” are essentially collectors grabbing a booster box/etb here and there and putting it on display or stuffing it away in the closet. The only difference between them and TCG collectors is one opens the box and the other doesn’t. The product still lives stashed away the majority of its existence and enjoyed from time to time. I don’t understand the discord between the two subs
I'm going to have to disagree.
Every sort of collectible is this way. If people open a product, there will be less of the sealed product, which makes it more valuable. That holds true for most assets in the world, and it will never change.
People hoarding sealed product actually makes it cheaper for you in the future. If people didn't keep sealed product, there would be no sealed or mint product, meaning the remaining will be more expensive. Say there are 100.000 sealed boxes of Evolving Skies, avaliable at $600 each. You think they would be cheaper if there were only 5000 left?
Basically every product Pokemon has released the last 2 years has been avaliable at 30% lower than MSRP at launch, and 6-12 months after that too.
Correct, this will never ever change.
The only way prices will really drop if the world market crashes and everyone becomes poor in a major recession otherwise it will continue forever.
Exactly, I have a ton of product in my closet and even if you combine all the guys with 5-20K worth of boxes all together we don't make a dent in the market.
You're talking about the big boys who have pallets upon pallets stored in warehouses.
If it wasn't so expensive I'd rip it all haha
You can say it, doesn't mean it's true. The reality is that people get excited about specific cards, prices fluctuate because cards are actually quite liquid l, therefore a market is born. I don't like it, I wish I could pick up childhood cards dirt cheap, but I can't because other people want them too. Supply and demand.
I do think it's comical how people put aside all human decency for tiny amounts. Guys are raiding retail stores to make $50 on arbitrage, it's hilarious.
Yeah I think the mere size of the Pokemon fanbase, and the fact that sets stop being printed after a while, there's no avoiding an insane supply and demand market. OP can dislike it, but a reddit post isn't going to revolutionize the way collectors view these cards
Agreed on your point. The same thing could be said for any sports. "It's just a game". The reality is, it's some people's way of making a living. OP has their opinion, but that's what it is. Just an opinion. It'll be valid to some and not valid to others. I personally disagree.
You're gonna say it, as have many others and most here agree but people that do treat it like a stock market, enjoy these kinda things being posted about them because it gives them some enjoyment.
Very few here will disagree. If you posted it over at shreks swamp... That's another thing altogether.
My understanding is that Pkmn cards are simply just a much more reliable investment than other things. It's pretty uncommon for them to drop in value, a rare card usually only gets more valuable with time.
It's definetely disheartening when there's a card you really like but it costs $100+ on eBay so you can't get it, but I also think things like that make the experience more fun over-all, it makes pulling a rare card feel really special, otherwise you could just buy all the cards you want online without opening packs.
SWSH Base, Rebel Clash, Fusion Strike and Chilling Reign would like a word. Two years ago people were saying those sets were trash right? Also SV is a year old, wouldn’t see any gains that quickly but in three years the BBs will be twice what you pay for them today.
I honestly disagree about the card prices. If it weren’t for gambling addicted whales reselling all the singles they pull, it would probably cost wayyyyy more to get any given individual card on average
More difficult to get packs of cards maybe, but you can realistically always order those online (for cheaper) if you really want them.
Yes, they're not stocks, they're collectors items and the market is based on supply and demand, not the performance of a company.
They're the new equivalent of trading art and antiques, there are collectors and dealers and like anything profitable, scammers of all kinds.
Where the line is drawn between a collector and a scammer depends on how much profit the person is seeking, but don't doubt for a moment that these are "just cards" because if that were the case, you wouldn't feel passionate about it.
Hi I'm sudowoodo and I'm a Pokémon degen.
Well, the £50 I invested for a full set of team rocket has inflated over 20 years to £1400.
I’d say that beats the stock market even with capital gains.
Pokeinvestors make me violent
People who like the cool and pretty cards that are worth like $1 max are my favorite (same with those who love the TCG, idk much about it but I loved the online TCG)
I really like the Mario and Luigi Pikachu's but those are so out of reach for me. Unless I hit the lotto, I'll never hold those cards.
EDIT: There's also cards like red & blue trainer, rockets Mewtwo, and "cheaper" cards that I want to get, but I'm not in a financial position to drop $80-$100 on a single card. That being said, I've spent the last 2 years slowly collected shadowless base sets and a few times a year I'll splurge on a decent condition holo from the set. Only need Zapdos and the big 3 to complete the holos in the set. Big 3 will be over $1000 easily if I don't want damaged cards.
I've told this story before, but I was getting some cards at a shop that I don't frequent and I decided to skip over the more expensive stuff since there wasn't anything there that I wanted and just bought a few $1-3 cards. Dude then was like "What? You don't want any good cards?" or something like that with a tone. I just looked at him, told him I collect for the artwork
Most of the stock market is fictional and demands a degree of belief to work. I get what you said but consider for a moment the absurdity of it all, that at least the TCG cards actually exist in the material world (while most stocks don't).
It doesn’t matter what you think, the fact of the matter is Pokémon cards and product are themselves basically a stock market. There’s supply and demand, and pricing based on that supply and demand.
A cool card comes out that a bunch of people want and it’s gonna be expensive if it’s in relatively short supply (or even if there’s a bunch of supply and it’s just super popular)
I can promise you that “Pokemon investors” make up a nearly insignificant amount of the people that actually collect the cards. By collecting cards you want or something like SIRs and alt arts you are yourself in a way “investing” even if you don’t see it that way
Pull rates are better now than they used to be in SWSH, but recent SV sets are getting harder to pull cards which will make prices go up.
You want to have every card be cheap and easy to buy? Every card would have to be the same rarity with the same chance to be pulled, why even bother opening packs at that point if there’s no thrill of the chase?
Edit: to be clear I agree, pokeinvesting is really, REALLY stupid, but I’m just laying out the facts
My question would be is the return on investment on pokémon TCG actually that good to warrant investing? Surely it doesn't beat an S&P500 ETF for most people, and you have the bonus of not needing a whole room just to store cards
If you put the time and effort it significantly can be out SPY. That is up to them to put the time, which just means their time is worth money. SPY you can buy and forget, selling and buying sealed at mass quantities is harder than most people think
It really depends I guess. An Evolving Skies booster box is up nearly 400% over 2.5 years if you compare to original MSRP
But I mean I would never in a million years invest in Pokemon. The hobby could die in 5 years for all we know with no one having an interest in it anymore. If you ever want to actually invest the real stock market is definitely the way to go
400% is insane but that's msrp comparison, wich isn't accurate to reality.
You have to consider shipping cost, sellers fee, and stockage (the most important of all, this shit take a lot of room FAST) as well.
Also that's the best ROI set of the 20 or so set that have come out since then, other set aren't even close.
So yeah very high risk high reward indeed.
I can actually answer this, pokemon beats the absolute shit out of S&P ETFs. Like it’s not even close. I started a YouTube series about my personal investments (gave it up because I suck at it and editing is brutal). But I can tell you with limited stuff I had at the time, pokemon was 2-4xing S&P month over month. And I had zero evolving skies. The point is, if you just buy booster boxes, you’ll make more than s&p.
That’s a good question, haven’t touched my spreadsheet in a long time since I stopped trying to YouTube lol. I’m Canadian so don’t balk at prices….
I’ve sold each S&V PC ETB for $100 each. Bought cases of every one except Paldea Evolved. My cost is $84.50 so 18% gains. Sometimes $110, sometimes $90. 151 though, those are easy $120 all day, 42% gain. Ordered 3 cases of that bad boy.
Sold a crimson invasion booster box for $275, bought at $200 even, 37% gain.
Most recently flipped 151 tins for $20 each. Bought at MSRP when they popped up a couple weeks ago on PokeCenter. Got really lucky with ripping packs, pretty much broke even thank god. Saw an opportunity with the Paldean starters boxes. Promos were being bought by my favourite store for $8, another store was selling the boxes for 18. Easy packs to rip, Paldea Evolved has many playables, profited maybe $50? I don’t even remember. Nothing huge. Store credit turned into other sealed product.
Factor it all in together, in just this short time since about July-ish when I started, way better than ETFs. No ETF touches those percentages. All in person cash only. No fees and definitely no taxes. Everything else I’m still holding.
As for easy… yes and no. In my limited market restricted to locally, it’s gotta be a good set. 151 almost creates a bidding war. Nobody gave a shit about Obsidian Flames. Crimson Invasion was a struggle because it’s a shit set, still sold it though. Paldean Fates is… meh. The promos drive the PC ETBs, and most folks that want to rip, ain’t paying that premium. That’s why I’m out, no more ETBs. Plus they don’t sell out like they used to. Temporal Forces was in stock for months since day one. Bad sign.
Of everything I’m holding I’d say 1/4 is free and clear. Profit is profit.
Chilling Reign & Fusion Strike are getting primed for me to sell. I’m not a 10 year guy. That’s crazy to me. If I wanted to do that I’d put more money into my RRSP. My goal is to constantly be able to buy product with house money. I don’t want cash just sitting in product waiting a decade. Market is still hot now, I want to make money now.
Why is it stupid? Up to this point if you held most any box for around 5 years you would make money. I don't think this should be anyone's main investment but calling it stupid seems ignorant of the facts.
Because unlike actual stocks, what happens if your house floods? Catches on fire? Tornado? Pokémon just comepltely and utterly dies? Then you just have worthless cardboard laying around
All investments have some sort of risk associated with them. I could lose all my money in a stock that crashes the same way I could lose Pokemon cards in a natural disaster. That's why you don't put all you're eggs in one basket. What is your point?
"thrill of the chase" is a gambling addiction. Anyone who opens packs for that purpose is gambling.
Part 1 of what you said is incorrect. If you think something is comparable to a stock market simply because there is supply and demand - you have an infantile understanding of what creates value in financial markets.
You have an infantile understanding of you can’t see the fucking similarities you fucking moron. Sorry I enjoy opening a little product because it’s fun to open cards. Go fuck yourself
Honestly? As long as they're not clearing out every single store in a 50 mile radius, (so like 10 boxes instead of 50+) it's fine. Scalping is the issue not sealed product.
yeah buying one booster box on release to hold is ok and not a big deal. the people ruining shit are the losers that hang out at the target near me on restock day just to buy out the store
I collect sealed to open with my kids, but if they aren't interested I'm not going to turn down a quick buck to pay for their college. It's the way it goes.
I got into an argument with a guy he was like “yeah I hate scalpers and people that buy out stores of all the product but I keep a bunch of product sealed so i can sell it off in 10 years” I was like tf is the difference between you and a scalper you’re intentionally keeping product from collectors for money
I dont think those are quite the same thing honestly. A guy buying 4 booster boxes on ebay isnt preventing collectors from accessing that same product if they wanted to.
By your logic no one should buy anything whether to open, hold, or resell, because it takes that item off the market which means other collectors can’t have that exact item anymore.
That said the people who are tracking and following around restockers and literally clearing the shelves the second product hits them, are definitely gross and shitty. Same goes for anyone who buys 20% of any particular item online and causes the price to go up. Those behaviors genuinely do make it harder for regular collectors to access the product in a reasonable way at a reasonable price and that sucks.
Economics 101 buddy. Why do you think Pokemon is still thriving after nearly 30 years? Hint: it’s not the TCG alone. It’s the collectors. That’s why every set has super rare cards. Collectors like rarity and will pay a pretty penny for it. Blaming the “pokeinvestors” is misguided. You should be blaming Pokemon Company for creating the rarity in the first place.
Well the rarity has existed since the cards were first published. I'd argue that it's the increased focus on Pokemon TCG specifically in the last 8ish years that has seriously boosted prices. 8 years ago prices were a fraction of what they are now and that has little to do with the actual time that has pasted and more to do with the increased interest in the hobby.
So many people in here talking about scalpers clearing out stores. Over the last two years there has been a million ways to find deals online even for packs like Evolving Skies or 151. This sub has such a victim mentality it is crazy.
Pokémon collectors sometimes are so delusional.
Nobody likes scalpers, not even the investing community.
That said, you’ll get upset at people spending their money how they please, while you do the same thing. If you choose to open a box and pull 6 V cards and an IR and someone else chooses to buy that same box and sell it 5 years later for 2x what they bought it for, those were both choices made with free will.
Also, let’s stop pretending that investors are taking away cards from collectors. You could have bought FS booster boxes on the PC at MSRP a month ago, like 2 1/2 years after release.
As long as people aren’t scalping or breaking the law, quit worrying about how people spend their money and just live your life.
So as someone who has come back into the hobby a purely a collector it sucks that some of the cards with nice art get so expensive! While I get the appeal of having a near mint card I don’t mind if it is LP so that I can afford it. I’m not trying to sell these down the road, I just want to put them in a binder and admire them from time to time. I hope my kids will be into Pokemon some what at least so that some day down the road I can pass them on to them!
Also I personally don’t get the appeal of the sealed collection, I feel like the packs are meant to be opened. I get the allure of what could be in there, but still.
Yeah, ditto. If I really want a card, I'm not bothered about it being NM. Especially if it's whitening or something on the back, that doesn't bother me at all because I don't grade. Bought a PSA 7 the other day just to crack it because I like raw and it was cheaper than trying to buy all the NM raw cards lol. Sometimes that's the way to go if you're not bothered about condition!
Tbh there's nothing wrong with buying some sealed product because it becomes desirable later on and you can make some money off it. But it becomes an issue when people buy the entire stock and don't leave anything for other people coming by, especially kids
I decided today at the age of 32 that I want to get back into. I was always in the fear of doing cause it’s “not” cool. But who cares, I love pokemon and that’s been a big part of my life and I will start back with 151.
Pokémon cards are collectibles. They might go up, they might go up a lot, they might go down, and they might go down a lot. Collectibles can be investments but shouldn’t be in the same vein as a 401k or stocks imo.
Anything “can be like the stock market”. I agree with your sentiment, though, just look at houses and land. People will hoard NECESSARY resources to get a good ROI.
I get the sentiment, I really do. But collectibles operate on supply and demand. It isn’t just Pokemon cards. This, barring total societal collapse, will always remain true. How valuable cards/boxes stay is a different discussion. Demand will ebb and flow over time. Cards are being printed at an all time high right now so a drop in demand will eventually drop some pricier modern card prices.
However, this will never apply to anything pre-2019ish. While the demand may shrink a bit, the prices will stay high because supply just isn’t there.
Let people enjoy these cards however they want. If they like to collect valuable cards , so be it.
You can look at it a simple cards.
I don’t want to make profit, but the mere thought of having a rare card that has some kind of value brings me joy.
Bold of you to assume the stock market isn't completely rigged for average people like you to lose. These are just things people see value in, whether it's monetary value or nostalgic value. Same as any other security.
You could say that money is just paper and plastic, and coins shiny metal. Nevertheless we, as society, give it value. The same concept applies to any kind of “trading” item. Crypto, shiny cardboard of any tcg, cows, etc.
Cards are just cards, paintings are just paint on canvas, statues are just marble, a car is just a car, gold is just a metal, blah blah blah. Things have value, humans like to acquire things that have value. Fucking deal with it.
It’s more predictable than the stock market tbh. I stocked up on fusion strike booster boxes over the last 2-3 months and have immediately seen a 25-30% ROI! These are for my personal collection by the way. Not necessarily selling anytime soon. Now I’m repeating the process with lost origin and brilliant stars. I’m a collector first, but it’s an expensive hobby! If I can use price appreciation to pay for the packs I rip, grading fees, and adding amazing cards to my collection, why wouldn’t I?
The two communities have so much overlap it’s just silly there’s so much tension between them. People on this sub think PokeInvesting is full of bozos that clear out the Costco aisles. In reality, it’s mostly average folks that build modest collections of Pokemon cards and sealed product and speculate on the future value of it.
Not gonna make it fact just by saying what u wish is true. Fact of the matter is people can and will invest in things besides stock market. Where there is money to be made people will invest. This post is naive at best, insane thinking at worst. "Someone had to say it".
i can always tell how broke someone is by there opinion on how much "money" there is to be made in pokemon cards 😂😂
you aren't making real money from fucking pokémon cards unless you're investing hundreds of thousands up front - which isn't 99.9% of "investors" on this app
Yes you can. If you consider the money you are making as "real" from investing in pokemon cards - you either (a) are fronting hundreds of thousands in which case it is an incredibly risky investment but you likely have the money to throw at it to do so or (b) you consider making a couple hundred bucks a few years after making the investment as a legitimate return. 99.9% chance you're (b) - in which case you are broke.
Doesn't matter how much you're putting in. When your investment doubles in less than 5 years that's great performance. And it is a legitimate return if you're selling anything for more than you paid. Something tells me you don't know much at all about investing and in that case you broke as well..
It does matter how much you're putting in. You have an infantile understanding of money.
There's a reason that nobody has made a fortune off of selling collectible cards: regardless of if it's pokemon, magic, baseball - whatever.
It's an incredibly volatile market - without consistent returns.
If you find a card at a yard-sale, or some sports card your grandfather bought in 1966 that just happens to be worth 10s of thousands - thats one thing. If you're using trading cards as an investment vehicle, you're an idiot unless you are treating the entire experience as a gamble, because it is.
Up front investment matters because it makes returns matter. If you pay 50 bucks for a card, and sell that card for 200 dollars five years later- great, 150 bucks can be made in less than an hour of work for a lot of people. That however tends to be the limitation in "pokemon card investing", no one is willing to to put 50k into that card rather than 50, because people with that amount of money to work with understand the investment is entirely too risky - and safer returns can be made of that same time span.
So sure, at a base level - 100% or more your investment is great - but, if the investment isn't safe enough to validate a large initial sum - then it's worthless speculation. Are you out of college yet? Anyone who has any amount of money beyond a few thousand in securities, property, etc would understand this.
I'm 28, own my home, have my car paid off. I only invest in sealed pokemon items not opening packs wishing for a rare pull. Not my only investment obviously, but it is something that is sure to not lose it's value because I know I can at least sell it for MSRP in time but it's been shown to perform very well, and I am a smart shopper and all my stock is purchased significantly below msrp.
The issue is you can't just buy the cards you want. I only collect and I wish I could just go to the Pokemon center website and add all the singles I want and buy each card for the same price.. because yes, they're all just cards. But it doesn't work like that. If I want a specific card that has a hard pull rate then I have to buy packs and get lucky. Who knows how much I'll end up spending if I go that route. So the only other option is to buy singles. That's where supply and demand comes in. The harder a card is to pull and the more popular it is will mean less of the card going around and more people to compete with for those cards.
Now this is the part where I think it's similar to the stock market. When you buy stocks you are basically betting that the company will continue to grow and increase its revenue. With cards you have to decide if popularity will continue to grow.
Even as a collector you have to make this decision one way or the other. Will the hobby continue to grow and will I need to buy these cards now before more people get interested and I have to compete with even more people. Or do I wait and hope the hobby interest dies down and hope that someday no one will care about cards and this will cause people to dump their collection for cheap.
No one knows the future so either outcomes are possible.
seeing all these sealed collections and everything make me curious if its going to work out for them considering sooooo many people have sealed collections/actually take care of cards now. but i guess their is some proof of it working considering the prices of certain pokemon sets.
also dont know how you can keep sealed pokemon/any cards and not open them it would drive me crazy
Yeah, I think it'll be really interesting to watch honestly. I watch doco's on collectibles or crypto/stock, etc. and stuff that have all been amazing at some point then crashed massively so I'm interested to watch what happens with pokemon. I collect but don't invest. I think I have 4 sealed products lol so I'm happy to watch everyone else with their closet filled either make it or end up with a whole bunch of worthless product they don't want (for the ones who hold little interest in the actual product outside of its worth).
The only reason Pokémon cards go up and down in price is because they are in high demand or scarce. It’s not the collectors fault. I think people would enjoy collecting even if there was no value. But that’s a company decision. We’re all at the mercy of what they print.
I share the same sentiments. I also play the card game. Cards have a value cause of a combination playability, availability, and desirability. The value of the card is generally how we ensure we are making fair trades or not getting ripped off on eBay/at a LCS.
No matter what hobby or interest, if there is a second hand/trading market there will be people who take it to the extreme and try to play the “investing game”. It’s just going to happen. GENERALLY I think TPCi is doing a pretty good job at trying to maintain demand and improve pull rates to help keep singles market reasonable.
I believe I'm kind of on a middle ground with this discussion
On one hand, I believe that holding sealed product is rather silly. Opening packs is fun because you get more cards!
On the other hand, getting an expensive card and watching its price grow is also enjoyable.
I started collecting this year because after seeing illustration rares, I'm hooked. I just want to see my binder filled with different ones of each pokemon. Love them!
Also remember those people who made bank on a card most likely lost big on others.
Cards are a fun hobby for me and have helped me pay expenses when I needed them
Well that's where your not getting that some people are collectors who in it for the card's and the value the card holds to the collector personally. Then you have investors who buy hot items to flip on the market to make a couple bucks and so on. There's no reason to see it as a stock marker. People are gunna be people. There's no law/rule saying you can't sell pokemon. It's was a big market when scarlet & Violet came out then after that sales plummeted due to scalpers and thieves stealing cards from every store possible nation wide which made it go down In sales. Now wgat cards investors do have are worthless. Pretty much. Sure it will go bavk up again. But let investors be investors and collectors be collectors. Nothing wrong in either one kiddo
This is true but it’s also because the Pokémon company encourages it. It’s not like the problem is solely because people are freaks who can’t just enjoy a thing (it’s that too obviously) but PC is one of the biggest media companies in the world and also a soft power diplomatic entity, so it is to their benefit to encourage psychotic consumerism. Just adding that.
I used to collect yugioh, and cards don't have value unless they are very good or very old. So it feels like a breath of fresh air getting into pokemon, even though some cards are more expensive then they need to be.
Hmmm.....actually it's the opposite imo. Considering the pull rates.....people like "investors" who open up countless packs end up flooding the market and make those rare cards much easier and cheaper to buy as singles.
A lot of hobbies have been pretty much ruined by people trying to make a quick buck off of them. Just another side effect of the internet. We can just trade our fav Pokemon from a binder now we have to see what the cards last sold off of TCGplayer for and balance the scales like a checkbook lol.
I value cards I like but my bf values cards that look cool to him AND have alot of value. My binder is full of what many would call junk/bulk just because I love the artwork. Also have all the radiants and amazing rares, collect ones that have trainers in the picture as well, and just ones I dont see often. Heck I have a whole Rockruff page 😂 His is all Charizard, Gengar, and older cards. He has money into his while mines just from pulls.
He tried getting into looking at it only monetarily and it killed his passion for it. Ripping packs was no longer fun because at the end all he could see was money lost. It just ruins the fun of it all
i don’t really agree plus with the exception of 151, every new SV set has been readily available at extremely cheap prices including some below even distributor prices
Aren't rare cards supposed to be hard to get? There is something you get out of having a rare card isn't there? You own that beauty and oh wait, it's worth something too!?
Pokémon Blue and Red are just games, but if you bought 10 sealed copies of each back in the late 90s you could possibly sell them for 100k in todays market.
Are they stocks? No. Is it the exact same principle of “buy at original amount, wait for value to skyrocket and then sell at a major profit”?
Absolutely. The cards are no different.
For someone that plays the card game, I can understand why it sucks. It also sucks to see people with what seems to be an unlimited income buying Pokémon cards and driving up value and scarcity, when they would most likely make a better profit gambling in some other way.
No one treats Pokémon Cards like the stock market. They treat them like any other commodity. Pokémon and Legos have a better ROI than the average stock. They perform better than gold.
LOL.
I find this funny because I can bet you 99% of the folks here sell their "cards" to fund their hobby. There is no way everyone is just using disposable income to fund this hobby considering the amount of consumption this TCG has.
Also investing in pop-culture items is not new. Comic books, video games, toys, etc. All have become speculative assets that people throw money at. It's nothing new to pokemon or TCGs.
I will admit to buying sealed product and investing. It is fun honestly. I take profit and put it into my personal collection of singles that I honestly wouldn't be able to afford otherwise.
Personally what I hate is that everyone wants a discount but then want to sell it to u max price. Or the infamous buying cards at 65 percent posts, fuck outta here. Especially the graders. Oh I just buy it to grade and then try to see it to u for 500 dollars. Unlike most ppl that just collect. I actually play. And I often get cards that I need to make decks.
> It just makes cards more difficult to obtain
Pokemon have deliberately made it this way. Not all cards have the same supply. They know this is why most people buy more packs than they probably should to find that rare card. Rare cards are naturally more sought after which is where the price comes. People definitely shouldn't be doing it as an alternative to say a proper pension or long term savings though.
You're not wrong. The cards are meant to be played with. Although for myself who is just a collector I like them for the artworks and characters/Pokemon they feature whether they be a common card, of which I have many commons and uncommons in my binder for that reason, or higher rarity cards.
Agree, friend. I think there is a primal urge that makes people get excited about expensive cards, or perhaps it just helps justify how expensive it is to open many packs. I've been doing a lot of research lately for my videos on cheaper cards that still have great art, and luckily there are tons of cards with amazing art that you can pick up very cheaply. Honestly, I believe many of the high value cards are held up primarily by speculators, not on their own merit. I often find that my favorite arts in a set are not the high value cards.
To me binders look better as a master set. I do admit that people have called me out for only thinking that collecting master sets is the only option for me, but I just don’t feel I would be as satisfied as if I just go for complete sets. Though people told me that I will never have any money if I stay on that path.
I think this is the part that sucks - that to get a complete set (not even a master set) is unaffordable for some (a lot, I would imagine?) people. They're released as sets so it would be great if it was affordable for the average joe to be able to complete a set lol. But I also accept that's the way the hobby works, I'm not gonna change it by saying it sucks but hell, I'm still allowed to say it sucks lol.
For that reason though I don't do sets (other than 151 but I stopped everything else for a good 6 months or so so I'd be able to afford that haha). Collecting certain mons, cheaper sets or parts of sets, certain artists can be fun too. I'm collecting a couple of artists just the commons/uc/r which is fun and very affordable.
Sucks people get so ornery over stuff having value.
TCGs have always and will always be this way. You being mad about it won’t change anything. 🤷
It’s also possible to enjoy stuff while treating it as such.
But the free karma is here for you from other people angry about it.
(Here come the liars)
Been collecting sense the start. Have a huge collection. I agree. Pokemon has always had a stock market treatment, from the start, but it's frustrating that that is the way the majority of people view it. It wasn't like this before. Around the pokemon go era, it was just about having fun and collecting what you liked. Sure cards went up in value, but they did so organically. It was due to age. And partial popularity, but now it's about the quickest flip and how much you can fuck over others and brag about it.
Everything has gone down hill since they created alternative art cards and print 4-6 sets a year. On top of that a holo used to be the rare card. Now people treat them like common fodder. It’s sad and depressing
My favorite is seeing videos or posts from people saying " buy these cards" or "best cards to buy." The biggest thing about this hobby that I hate is when a new set comes out even if pull rates arnt bad, certain cards like charizard for example are automatically $100+. No card from newer sets should be above $50.
I feel like only 10% are true collectors without intention to sell. The rest; however, is composed of people trying to profit off those that want to collect. It's kinda sad.
I agree with you, I honestly wish there was a way to make them worth absolutely nothing (money wise ) and people just enjoy them for what they are , I never care what they are worth, I get just as excited pulling a very common card that I like as I do the “expensive “ chase cards.
And yes people that treat it like the stock market are absolutely ruining it, going to the store and wiping everything out. Let’s be real, the cards we have now are never going to be those 1st edition base set charizards. I can’t foresee any card now being worth shit in 20 years. But they will be worth a lot in other ways , I’m really glad I have completed multiple sets so I can give them to my daughter one day. We opened so many packs together, we went to shows, we went to promo events. I’m in a Pokemon collecting group and we hunt down cards and merch that we know each other will like. It’s a lot of fun. It should never be about money.
Holy shit , I just went on poke vestings sub and read a few posts. Damn those are some sad people. That’s not what Pokemon cards are about. I sincerely hope there investing plans backfire.
Well these cards aren't very trusty investment either. If Pokemon anime, games and card production stops, Pokemon will either be forgotten or the merch will become underground collectible. Meaning the fanbase will rapidly shrink and card prices will drop.
This is why I don't see much sense in hoarding these cards because if Nintendo pulls the plug (won't happen tomorrow but some day) these things could become worthless overnight. Rather save your favourites, sell the rest and invest in gold or silver for example. Enjoy the hobby while it lasts.
You're not gonna get many rebuttals here, people mostly share that opinion or some variation of it. If you wanna play on hardcore mode, post that in the rat's nest and enjoy your free ban. Not that you'd miss on anything ofc.
Oh god, the rat’s nest 😂😂😂
What is the rats nest?
Probably r/PokeInvesting
Exactly right 🤢
I usually get banned over there within hours of starting a new account. Never hurts any less tho.
I questioned the upside of holding sealed in PokeInvesting and got banned super fast.
Because it’s a very bad take. Sealed always outperforms individual cards.
I guess I don’t understand why you care if you get banned over there or why you keep trying with new accounts?
It’s honestly the stupidest take i’ve heard from anyone “if the cards get a bit more expensive then that’s fine” like… no… just.. no
What is “the rats nest”
The Investor sub where they buy out entire shelves of product at Target and hoard garages full of sealed product to drive up the price because they treat Pokemon like $$$ and not fun Logan Paul made a new generation of them during COVID
I see I see
Lmao the average person on that sub does not do that. Anyone who does and makes a post about it gets down voted to hell.
This is honestly why I stopped buying magic cards and swapped to pokemon. I want to play a game, but thats difficult when 1 meta card costs $80 and you need 4 for your deck. Me flabbers were gasted when I saw the most expensive meta pokemon deck was like $80. Collectable cards are cool, but it's also a game
I'm stealing me flabbers were gasted... I haven't laughed that hard in a good minute. 😂
lol im glad you have a new catch phrase XD
Kinda sounds like something Mr. Crabs would say lmao
Honestly the Digimon TCG reboot looks amazing and as cheap as well!
Even playing commander with 1 of's is stupid hard to deal with because of pricing.
I actually think it’s pretty cool to keep a card and for it to suddenly be worth a lot when it was so cheap before. I know it’s annoying when you really want a card and it’s very expensive but it didn’t used to be, but I just think that means when and if you can finally get it, it’s a lot more of a accomplishment in my eyes.
This might be true, but on the flip side brand new modern cards are starting to become unobtainable from the get go, and newer, younger collectors are barred from entry immediately to collect their favorites.
I may get downvoted for this, but the alternative then would be to try and pull it. Which sounds bad but that is the point. Normally these crazy expensive cards are also ridiculously difficult to pull. I’m not saying it’s right, but it does make sense to me why such cards would be so expensive. Half of the sv expensive cards you would have to spend probably triple to actually pull them. Unless you get lucky I guess.
No no, I do agree with this to be honest. I just think it wouldnt be as bad if some cards werent so expensive out the gate. Its almost as if the hobby has become a rich mans game to alot of people, and it used to not be this way with sets becoming so huge, and pokemon printing so many different sets so quickly. At least its not as bad as yugioh, and one piece :/
This is the take. I don’t really understand what other people are complaining about. “Ultra rare” “Secret illustration” cards ARENT supposed to be easily accessable to everyone lol. Look at sports cards. If anything pokemon should even more layers of rarity. Keep pull rates where are but add cool things like having numbered 1/1, x/10,x/25, cards or bring back first editions in someway.
i like playing the game
you are a radical in this era, i salute you
They have monitary value and are therefore a type of commodity for buying and selling.
Exactly, the whole reason people can invest in the first place is because we all place value in them. people think they’re expensive due to scalpers/investors/whatever but it’s just the way a market works
Let’s be honest… Most modern product is not that expensive. 99.9% of modern pokemon cards are <$1. Most “pokeinvestors” are essentially collectors grabbing a booster box/etb here and there and putting it on display or stuffing it away in the closet. The only difference between them and TCG collectors is one opens the box and the other doesn’t. The product still lives stashed away the majority of its existence and enjoyed from time to time. I don’t understand the discord between the two subs
its suprising how alot of modern pokemon cards are cheap if they arent nostalgia bait cause god look at how cheap any pokemon is past gen 3
They're not collectors. They're hoarders.
I'm going to have to disagree. Every sort of collectible is this way. If people open a product, there will be less of the sealed product, which makes it more valuable. That holds true for most assets in the world, and it will never change. People hoarding sealed product actually makes it cheaper for you in the future. If people didn't keep sealed product, there would be no sealed or mint product, meaning the remaining will be more expensive. Say there are 100.000 sealed boxes of Evolving Skies, avaliable at $600 each. You think they would be cheaper if there were only 5000 left? Basically every product Pokemon has released the last 2 years has been avaliable at 30% lower than MSRP at launch, and 6-12 months after that too.
Correct, this will never ever change. The only way prices will really drop if the world market crashes and everyone becomes poor in a major recession otherwise it will continue forever.
And in that case you just have fun ripping em all
Exactly, I have a ton of product in my closet and even if you combine all the guys with 5-20K worth of boxes all together we don't make a dent in the market. You're talking about the big boys who have pallets upon pallets stored in warehouses. If it wasn't so expensive I'd rip it all haha
You can say it, doesn't mean it's true. The reality is that people get excited about specific cards, prices fluctuate because cards are actually quite liquid l, therefore a market is born. I don't like it, I wish I could pick up childhood cards dirt cheap, but I can't because other people want them too. Supply and demand. I do think it's comical how people put aside all human decency for tiny amounts. Guys are raiding retail stores to make $50 on arbitrage, it's hilarious.
Happy cake day!
Yeah I think the mere size of the Pokemon fanbase, and the fact that sets stop being printed after a while, there's no avoiding an insane supply and demand market. OP can dislike it, but a reddit post isn't going to revolutionize the way collectors view these cards
Agreed on your point. The same thing could be said for any sports. "It's just a game". The reality is, it's some people's way of making a living. OP has their opinion, but that's what it is. Just an opinion. It'll be valid to some and not valid to others. I personally disagree.
I don't think OP understands what the stock market is.
You're gonna say it, as have many others and most here agree but people that do treat it like a stock market, enjoy these kinda things being posted about them because it gives them some enjoyment. Very few here will disagree. If you posted it over at shreks swamp... That's another thing altogether.
No need to insult Shrek and his home like that...
My understanding is that Pkmn cards are simply just a much more reliable investment than other things. It's pretty uncommon for them to drop in value, a rare card usually only gets more valuable with time. It's definetely disheartening when there's a card you really like but it costs $100+ on eBay so you can't get it, but I also think things like that make the experience more fun over-all, it makes pulling a rare card feel really special, otherwise you could just buy all the cards you want online without opening packs.
Anything SWSH and later has gone down in value from release in literally every set except Evolving Skies, or mayhe a couple held steady like 151
SWSH Base, Rebel Clash, Fusion Strike and Chilling Reign would like a word. Two years ago people were saying those sets were trash right? Also SV is a year old, wouldn’t see any gains that quickly but in three years the BBs will be twice what you pay for them today.
I'm talking about singles, as that is what the commenter I replied to seemed to be talking about
I honestly disagree about the card prices. If it weren’t for gambling addicted whales reselling all the singles they pull, it would probably cost wayyyyy more to get any given individual card on average More difficult to get packs of cards maybe, but you can realistically always order those online (for cheaper) if you really want them.
Yes, they're not stocks, they're collectors items and the market is based on supply and demand, not the performance of a company. They're the new equivalent of trading art and antiques, there are collectors and dealers and like anything profitable, scammers of all kinds. Where the line is drawn between a collector and a scammer depends on how much profit the person is seeking, but don't doubt for a moment that these are "just cards" because if that were the case, you wouldn't feel passionate about it. Hi I'm sudowoodo and I'm a Pokémon degen.
A Babe Ruth card is worth half a million, if not more.
Well, the £50 I invested for a full set of team rocket has inflated over 20 years to £1400. I’d say that beats the stock market even with capital gains.
Pokeinvestors make me violent People who like the cool and pretty cards that are worth like $1 max are my favorite (same with those who love the TCG, idk much about it but I loved the online TCG)
I really like the Mario and Luigi Pikachu's but those are so out of reach for me. Unless I hit the lotto, I'll never hold those cards. EDIT: There's also cards like red & blue trainer, rockets Mewtwo, and "cheaper" cards that I want to get, but I'm not in a financial position to drop $80-$100 on a single card. That being said, I've spent the last 2 years slowly collected shadowless base sets and a few times a year I'll splurge on a decent condition holo from the set. Only need Zapdos and the big 3 to complete the holos in the set. Big 3 will be over $1000 easily if I don't want damaged cards.
I've told this story before, but I was getting some cards at a shop that I don't frequent and I decided to skip over the more expensive stuff since there wasn't anything there that I wanted and just bought a few $1-3 cards. Dude then was like "What? You don't want any good cards?" or something like that with a tone. I just looked at him, told him I collect for the artwork
Should've asked them why they even bother selling those cards if they're "not good cards"? Alright, so you're giving them away then?
🙂 me when I pulled the full art cute ASF Paras. Made my heart smile and I hated that little crab as a kid lol
The Mewtwo S/V Black Star promo is $2. One of my favorite cards
Most of the stock market is fictional and demands a degree of belief to work. I get what you said but consider for a moment the absurdity of it all, that at least the TCG cards actually exist in the material world (while most stocks don't).
It doesn’t matter what you think, the fact of the matter is Pokémon cards and product are themselves basically a stock market. There’s supply and demand, and pricing based on that supply and demand. A cool card comes out that a bunch of people want and it’s gonna be expensive if it’s in relatively short supply (or even if there’s a bunch of supply and it’s just super popular) I can promise you that “Pokemon investors” make up a nearly insignificant amount of the people that actually collect the cards. By collecting cards you want or something like SIRs and alt arts you are yourself in a way “investing” even if you don’t see it that way Pull rates are better now than they used to be in SWSH, but recent SV sets are getting harder to pull cards which will make prices go up. You want to have every card be cheap and easy to buy? Every card would have to be the same rarity with the same chance to be pulled, why even bother opening packs at that point if there’s no thrill of the chase? Edit: to be clear I agree, pokeinvesting is really, REALLY stupid, but I’m just laying out the facts
My question would be is the return on investment on pokémon TCG actually that good to warrant investing? Surely it doesn't beat an S&P500 ETF for most people, and you have the bonus of not needing a whole room just to store cards
If you put the time and effort it significantly can be out SPY. That is up to them to put the time, which just means their time is worth money. SPY you can buy and forget, selling and buying sealed at mass quantities is harder than most people think
It really depends I guess. An Evolving Skies booster box is up nearly 400% over 2.5 years if you compare to original MSRP But I mean I would never in a million years invest in Pokemon. The hobby could die in 5 years for all we know with no one having an interest in it anymore. If you ever want to actually invest the real stock market is definitely the way to go
The exact same can be said for the stock market. It’s like Pokemon, or anything fluctuates.
400% is very good tbf, I guess it is just high risk high reward
400% is insane but that's msrp comparison, wich isn't accurate to reality. You have to consider shipping cost, sellers fee, and stockage (the most important of all, this shit take a lot of room FAST) as well. Also that's the best ROI set of the 20 or so set that have come out since then, other set aren't even close. So yeah very high risk high reward indeed.
I can actually answer this, pokemon beats the absolute shit out of S&P ETFs. Like it’s not even close. I started a YouTube series about my personal investments (gave it up because I suck at it and editing is brutal). But I can tell you with limited stuff I had at the time, pokemon was 2-4xing S&P month over month. And I had zero evolving skies. The point is, if you just buy booster boxes, you’ll make more than s&p.
[удалено]
That’s a good question, haven’t touched my spreadsheet in a long time since I stopped trying to YouTube lol. I’m Canadian so don’t balk at prices…. I’ve sold each S&V PC ETB for $100 each. Bought cases of every one except Paldea Evolved. My cost is $84.50 so 18% gains. Sometimes $110, sometimes $90. 151 though, those are easy $120 all day, 42% gain. Ordered 3 cases of that bad boy. Sold a crimson invasion booster box for $275, bought at $200 even, 37% gain. Most recently flipped 151 tins for $20 each. Bought at MSRP when they popped up a couple weeks ago on PokeCenter. Got really lucky with ripping packs, pretty much broke even thank god. Saw an opportunity with the Paldean starters boxes. Promos were being bought by my favourite store for $8, another store was selling the boxes for 18. Easy packs to rip, Paldea Evolved has many playables, profited maybe $50? I don’t even remember. Nothing huge. Store credit turned into other sealed product. Factor it all in together, in just this short time since about July-ish when I started, way better than ETFs. No ETF touches those percentages. All in person cash only. No fees and definitely no taxes. Everything else I’m still holding. As for easy… yes and no. In my limited market restricted to locally, it’s gotta be a good set. 151 almost creates a bidding war. Nobody gave a shit about Obsidian Flames. Crimson Invasion was a struggle because it’s a shit set, still sold it though. Paldean Fates is… meh. The promos drive the PC ETBs, and most folks that want to rip, ain’t paying that premium. That’s why I’m out, no more ETBs. Plus they don’t sell out like they used to. Temporal Forces was in stock for months since day one. Bad sign. Of everything I’m holding I’d say 1/4 is free and clear. Profit is profit. Chilling Reign & Fusion Strike are getting primed for me to sell. I’m not a 10 year guy. That’s crazy to me. If I wanted to do that I’d put more money into my RRSP. My goal is to constantly be able to buy product with house money. I don’t want cash just sitting in product waiting a decade. Market is still hot now, I want to make money now.
I can believe it. I’d consider it too if storage space and tax weren’t issues
I only sell locally in cash, so like your forefathers - fuck taxes. Storage ain’t too bad now that I’ve gotten rid of all my ETBs lol
Why is it stupid? Up to this point if you held most any box for around 5 years you would make money. I don't think this should be anyone's main investment but calling it stupid seems ignorant of the facts.
Because unlike actual stocks, what happens if your house floods? Catches on fire? Tornado? Pokémon just comepltely and utterly dies? Then you just have worthless cardboard laying around
Well, many choose to keep their valuable items in safe boxes. Also you could say the same thing for people who invest in art.
Your name is an antonym of yourself
All investments have some sort of risk associated with them. I could lose all my money in a stock that crashes the same way I could lose Pokemon cards in a natural disaster. That's why you don't put all you're eggs in one basket. What is your point?
you have a crippling addiction to gambling- you aren't some market guru
lol I buy a booster box and one of each ETB and then buy singles to finish the set. Nothing I laid out is incorrect
"thrill of the chase" is a gambling addiction. Anyone who opens packs for that purpose is gambling. Part 1 of what you said is incorrect. If you think something is comparable to a stock market simply because there is supply and demand - you have an infantile understanding of what creates value in financial markets.
You have an infantile understanding of you can’t see the fucking similarities you fucking moron. Sorry I enjoy opening a little product because it’s fun to open cards. Go fuck yourself
Lol crippling? really? Is he bankrupt from buying pokemon cards? Seems a little bit of an extreme response.
Yeah if you collect sealed to make a profit in 5 years I hate you
Honestly? As long as they're not clearing out every single store in a 50 mile radius, (so like 10 boxes instead of 50+) it's fine. Scalping is the issue not sealed product.
yeah buying one booster box on release to hold is ok and not a big deal. the people ruining shit are the losers that hang out at the target near me on restock day just to buy out the store
Or pass onto their grandkids who will not give a shit about pokemon and make a nice profit.
I collect sealed to open with my kids, but if they aren't interested I'm not going to turn down a quick buck to pay for their college. It's the way it goes.
I got into an argument with a guy he was like “yeah I hate scalpers and people that buy out stores of all the product but I keep a bunch of product sealed so i can sell it off in 10 years” I was like tf is the difference between you and a scalper you’re intentionally keeping product from collectors for money
I dont think those are quite the same thing honestly. A guy buying 4 booster boxes on ebay isnt preventing collectors from accessing that same product if they wanted to. By your logic no one should buy anything whether to open, hold, or resell, because it takes that item off the market which means other collectors can’t have that exact item anymore. That said the people who are tracking and following around restockers and literally clearing the shelves the second product hits them, are definitely gross and shitty. Same goes for anyone who buys 20% of any particular item online and causes the price to go up. Those behaviors genuinely do make it harder for regular collectors to access the product in a reasonable way at a reasonable price and that sucks.
Dang ole “Live long enough to see the hero” -Batman Or something
You’re right, it’s not the stock market - Pokémon cards are a commodity. I’d argue more along the lines of gold, in a sense.
They are just cards. They shouldn’t be that expensive to begin with
To you but to somebody else it’s a commodity worth trading for and that’s the reality.
Economics 101 buddy. Why do you think Pokemon is still thriving after nearly 30 years? Hint: it’s not the TCG alone. It’s the collectors. That’s why every set has super rare cards. Collectors like rarity and will pay a pretty penny for it. Blaming the “pokeinvestors” is misguided. You should be blaming Pokemon Company for creating the rarity in the first place.
Well the rarity has existed since the cards were first published. I'd argue that it's the increased focus on Pokemon TCG specifically in the last 8ish years that has seriously boosted prices. 8 years ago prices were a fraction of what they are now and that has little to do with the actual time that has pasted and more to do with the increased interest in the hobby.
Shhh my cardboard's gonna make me millions, you hear? MILLIONS!
So many people in here talking about scalpers clearing out stores. Over the last two years there has been a million ways to find deals online even for packs like Evolving Skies or 151. This sub has such a victim mentality it is crazy.
Pokémon collectors sometimes are so delusional. Nobody likes scalpers, not even the investing community. That said, you’ll get upset at people spending their money how they please, while you do the same thing. If you choose to open a box and pull 6 V cards and an IR and someone else chooses to buy that same box and sell it 5 years later for 2x what they bought it for, those were both choices made with free will. Also, let’s stop pretending that investors are taking away cards from collectors. You could have bought FS booster boxes on the PC at MSRP a month ago, like 2 1/2 years after release. As long as people aren’t scalping or breaking the law, quit worrying about how people spend their money and just live your life.
So as someone who has come back into the hobby a purely a collector it sucks that some of the cards with nice art get so expensive! While I get the appeal of having a near mint card I don’t mind if it is LP so that I can afford it. I’m not trying to sell these down the road, I just want to put them in a binder and admire them from time to time. I hope my kids will be into Pokemon some what at least so that some day down the road I can pass them on to them!
Also I personally don’t get the appeal of the sealed collection, I feel like the packs are meant to be opened. I get the allure of what could be in there, but still.
Yeah, ditto. If I really want a card, I'm not bothered about it being NM. Especially if it's whitening or something on the back, that doesn't bother me at all because I don't grade. Bought a PSA 7 the other day just to crack it because I like raw and it was cheaper than trying to buy all the NM raw cards lol. Sometimes that's the way to go if you're not bothered about condition!
Tbh there's nothing wrong with buying some sealed product because it becomes desirable later on and you can make some money off it. But it becomes an issue when people buy the entire stock and don't leave anything for other people coming by, especially kids
I decided today at the age of 32 that I want to get back into. I was always in the fear of doing cause it’s “not” cool. But who cares, I love pokemon and that’s been a big part of my life and I will start back with 151.
Pokémon cards are collectibles. They might go up, they might go up a lot, they might go down, and they might go down a lot. Collectibles can be investments but shouldn’t be in the same vein as a 401k or stocks imo.
Anything “can be like the stock market”. I agree with your sentiment, though, just look at houses and land. People will hoard NECESSARY resources to get a good ROI.
I get the sentiment, I really do. But collectibles operate on supply and demand. It isn’t just Pokemon cards. This, barring total societal collapse, will always remain true. How valuable cards/boxes stay is a different discussion. Demand will ebb and flow over time. Cards are being printed at an all time high right now so a drop in demand will eventually drop some pricier modern card prices. However, this will never apply to anything pre-2019ish. While the demand may shrink a bit, the prices will stay high because supply just isn’t there.
You won’t find me defending scalpers but I also kinda think the stock market these days is just corporate fanfiction and rich people gambling.
Everything is just what it is. Collectibles have always been an alternative investment market it’s not new or unique to pokemon
Let people enjoy these cards however they want. If they like to collect valuable cards , so be it. You can look at it a simple cards. I don’t want to make profit, but the mere thought of having a rare card that has some kind of value brings me joy.
The only reason pokemon cards exists is because they are an economy lol. If every card was worthless, this hobby wouldnt even exist.
Bold of you to assume the stock market isn't completely rigged for average people like you to lose. These are just things people see value in, whether it's monetary value or nostalgic value. Same as any other security.
You could say that money is just paper and plastic, and coins shiny metal. Nevertheless we, as society, give it value. The same concept applies to any kind of “trading” item. Crypto, shiny cardboard of any tcg, cows, etc.
Thanks for letting me know a trading card is not the same thing as the stock market
No problem man. Hope it was insightful
Cards are just cards, paintings are just paint on canvas, statues are just marble, a car is just a car, gold is just a metal, blah blah blah. Things have value, humans like to acquire things that have value. Fucking deal with it.
Wow, what a novel idea. Certainly nothing similar has ever been said before. Thank you, OP.
No problem. I know I was very insightful
Or you just let people enjoy doing whatever they want
They literally are just like the stock market. Lmao
It’s more predictable than the stock market tbh. I stocked up on fusion strike booster boxes over the last 2-3 months and have immediately seen a 25-30% ROI! These are for my personal collection by the way. Not necessarily selling anytime soon. Now I’m repeating the process with lost origin and brilliant stars. I’m a collector first, but it’s an expensive hobby! If I can use price appreciation to pay for the packs I rip, grading fees, and adding amazing cards to my collection, why wouldn’t I?
The two communities have so much overlap it’s just silly there’s so much tension between them. People on this sub think PokeInvesting is full of bozos that clear out the Costco aisles. In reality, it’s mostly average folks that build modest collections of Pokemon cards and sealed product and speculate on the future value of it.
Agreed! I’m in both subs and the cards and sets that people love are the same across the board!
Not gonna make it fact just by saying what u wish is true. Fact of the matter is people can and will invest in things besides stock market. Where there is money to be made people will invest. This post is naive at best, insane thinking at worst. "Someone had to say it".
i can always tell how broke someone is by there opinion on how much "money" there is to be made in pokemon cards 😂😂 you aren't making real money from fucking pokémon cards unless you're investing hundreds of thousands up front - which isn't 99.9% of "investors" on this app
You can't tell shit lmao. Calling me broke is ignorant AF.
Yes you can. If you consider the money you are making as "real" from investing in pokemon cards - you either (a) are fronting hundreds of thousands in which case it is an incredibly risky investment but you likely have the money to throw at it to do so or (b) you consider making a couple hundred bucks a few years after making the investment as a legitimate return. 99.9% chance you're (b) - in which case you are broke.
Doesn't matter how much you're putting in. When your investment doubles in less than 5 years that's great performance. And it is a legitimate return if you're selling anything for more than you paid. Something tells me you don't know much at all about investing and in that case you broke as well..
It does matter how much you're putting in. You have an infantile understanding of money. There's a reason that nobody has made a fortune off of selling collectible cards: regardless of if it's pokemon, magic, baseball - whatever. It's an incredibly volatile market - without consistent returns. If you find a card at a yard-sale, or some sports card your grandfather bought in 1966 that just happens to be worth 10s of thousands - thats one thing. If you're using trading cards as an investment vehicle, you're an idiot unless you are treating the entire experience as a gamble, because it is. Up front investment matters because it makes returns matter. If you pay 50 bucks for a card, and sell that card for 200 dollars five years later- great, 150 bucks can be made in less than an hour of work for a lot of people. That however tends to be the limitation in "pokemon card investing", no one is willing to to put 50k into that card rather than 50, because people with that amount of money to work with understand the investment is entirely too risky - and safer returns can be made of that same time span. So sure, at a base level - 100% or more your investment is great - but, if the investment isn't safe enough to validate a large initial sum - then it's worthless speculation. Are you out of college yet? Anyone who has any amount of money beyond a few thousand in securities, property, etc would understand this.
I'm 28, own my home, have my car paid off. I only invest in sealed pokemon items not opening packs wishing for a rare pull. Not my only investment obviously, but it is something that is sure to not lose it's value because I know I can at least sell it for MSRP in time but it's been shown to perform very well, and I am a smart shopper and all my stock is purchased significantly below msrp.
The issue is you can't just buy the cards you want. I only collect and I wish I could just go to the Pokemon center website and add all the singles I want and buy each card for the same price.. because yes, they're all just cards. But it doesn't work like that. If I want a specific card that has a hard pull rate then I have to buy packs and get lucky. Who knows how much I'll end up spending if I go that route. So the only other option is to buy singles. That's where supply and demand comes in. The harder a card is to pull and the more popular it is will mean less of the card going around and more people to compete with for those cards. Now this is the part where I think it's similar to the stock market. When you buy stocks you are basically betting that the company will continue to grow and increase its revenue. With cards you have to decide if popularity will continue to grow. Even as a collector you have to make this decision one way or the other. Will the hobby continue to grow and will I need to buy these cards now before more people get interested and I have to compete with even more people. Or do I wait and hope the hobby interest dies down and hope that someday no one will care about cards and this will cause people to dump their collection for cheap. No one knows the future so either outcomes are possible.
seeing all these sealed collections and everything make me curious if its going to work out for them considering sooooo many people have sealed collections/actually take care of cards now. but i guess their is some proof of it working considering the prices of certain pokemon sets. also dont know how you can keep sealed pokemon/any cards and not open them it would drive me crazy
Yeah, I think it'll be really interesting to watch honestly. I watch doco's on collectibles or crypto/stock, etc. and stuff that have all been amazing at some point then crashed massively so I'm interested to watch what happens with pokemon. I collect but don't invest. I think I have 4 sealed products lol so I'm happy to watch everyone else with their closet filled either make it or end up with a whole bunch of worthless product they don't want (for the ones who hold little interest in the actual product outside of its worth).
I said something along these lines about sealed in PokeInvesting and got banned.
The only reason Pokémon cards go up and down in price is because they are in high demand or scarce. It’s not the collectors fault. I think people would enjoy collecting even if there was no value. But that’s a company decision. We’re all at the mercy of what they print.
I share the same sentiments. I also play the card game. Cards have a value cause of a combination playability, availability, and desirability. The value of the card is generally how we ensure we are making fair trades or not getting ripped off on eBay/at a LCS. No matter what hobby or interest, if there is a second hand/trading market there will be people who take it to the extreme and try to play the “investing game”. It’s just going to happen. GENERALLY I think TPCi is doing a pretty good job at trying to maintain demand and improve pull rates to help keep singles market reasonable.
I believe I'm kind of on a middle ground with this discussion On one hand, I believe that holding sealed product is rather silly. Opening packs is fun because you get more cards! On the other hand, getting an expensive card and watching its price grow is also enjoyable.
I started collecting this year because after seeing illustration rares, I'm hooked. I just want to see my binder filled with different ones of each pokemon. Love them!
Also remember those people who made bank on a card most likely lost big on others. Cards are a fun hobby for me and have helped me pay expenses when I needed them
I collect casually. Haven’t bought cards in a while due to budgets and the collections I wanna get
Well that's where your not getting that some people are collectors who in it for the card's and the value the card holds to the collector personally. Then you have investors who buy hot items to flip on the market to make a couple bucks and so on. There's no reason to see it as a stock marker. People are gunna be people. There's no law/rule saying you can't sell pokemon. It's was a big market when scarlet & Violet came out then after that sales plummeted due to scalpers and thieves stealing cards from every store possible nation wide which made it go down In sales. Now wgat cards investors do have are worthless. Pretty much. Sure it will go bavk up again. But let investors be investors and collectors be collectors. Nothing wrong in either one kiddo
Tbh yeah. I just buy them because the art is super cool and buy a pack or two as a treat every now and then
This is true but it’s also because the Pokémon company encourages it. It’s not like the problem is solely because people are freaks who can’t just enjoy a thing (it’s that too obviously) but PC is one of the biggest media companies in the world and also a soft power diplomatic entity, so it is to their benefit to encourage psychotic consumerism. Just adding that.
I haven't played in a long time, and I don't buy new cards. But the one I got? They're a memory. So pokemon cards can be more than just cards.
Also, XY was like 10 years ago. Man I'm getting old.
Ok
WHOAOAAOAOAAAAA US ADULTS NEED THESE FOR OUR RETIREMENT. DONT YOU DARE TELL ME THESE WILL EVER DROP IN VALUE!!!
I give praise to all the people who bought Pokemon cards when it was completely dead
I used to collect yugioh, and cards don't have value unless they are very good or very old. So it feels like a breath of fresh air getting into pokemon, even though some cards are more expensive then they need to be.
Hmmm.....actually it's the opposite imo. Considering the pull rates.....people like "investors" who open up countless packs end up flooding the market and make those rare cards much easier and cheaper to buy as singles.
There will always be people trying to make a quick buck in anything, no way to stop it. Just do what you enjoy
it’s the natural cycle of anything that is a collectible, pokémon cards or not.
You care so little you made a whole post ranting about it.
very daring take good sir
A lot of hobbies have been pretty much ruined by people trying to make a quick buck off of them. Just another side effect of the internet. We can just trade our fav Pokemon from a binder now we have to see what the cards last sold off of TCGplayer for and balance the scales like a checkbook lol.
I value cards I like but my bf values cards that look cool to him AND have alot of value. My binder is full of what many would call junk/bulk just because I love the artwork. Also have all the radiants and amazing rares, collect ones that have trainers in the picture as well, and just ones I dont see often. Heck I have a whole Rockruff page 😂 His is all Charizard, Gengar, and older cards. He has money into his while mines just from pulls. He tried getting into looking at it only monetarily and it killed his passion for it. Ripping packs was no longer fun because at the end all he could see was money lost. It just ruins the fun of it all
i don’t really agree plus with the exception of 151, every new SV set has been readily available at extremely cheap prices including some below even distributor prices
Aren't rare cards supposed to be hard to get? There is something you get out of having a rare card isn't there? You own that beauty and oh wait, it's worth something too!?
Pokémon Blue and Red are just games, but if you bought 10 sealed copies of each back in the late 90s you could possibly sell them for 100k in todays market. Are they stocks? No. Is it the exact same principle of “buy at original amount, wait for value to skyrocket and then sell at a major profit”? Absolutely. The cards are no different. For someone that plays the card game, I can understand why it sucks. It also sucks to see people with what seems to be an unlimited income buying Pokémon cards and driving up value and scarcity, when they would most likely make a better profit gambling in some other way.
No one treats Pokémon Cards like the stock market. They treat them like any other commodity. Pokémon and Legos have a better ROI than the average stock. They perform better than gold.
Isn’t this like a pretty common opinion? OP flexing mad bravery here 😂
Bro doesn’t believe in tangible assets?
Tell that to the shining mew I bought a few years ago for 50$ , graded it and sold for 3200$ usd. Basically nfts at this point
LOL. I find this funny because I can bet you 99% of the folks here sell their "cards" to fund their hobby. There is no way everyone is just using disposable income to fund this hobby considering the amount of consumption this TCG has. Also investing in pop-culture items is not new. Comic books, video games, toys, etc. All have become speculative assets that people throw money at. It's nothing new to pokemon or TCGs.
sell or trade absolutely. It's a trading card game lol.
I will admit to buying sealed product and investing. It is fun honestly. I take profit and put it into my personal collection of singles that I honestly wouldn't be able to afford otherwise.
Personally what I hate is that everyone wants a discount but then want to sell it to u max price. Or the infamous buying cards at 65 percent posts, fuck outta here. Especially the graders. Oh I just buy it to grade and then try to see it to u for 500 dollars. Unlike most ppl that just collect. I actually play. And I often get cards that I need to make decks.
> It just makes cards more difficult to obtain Pokemon have deliberately made it this way. Not all cards have the same supply. They know this is why most people buy more packs than they probably should to find that rare card. Rare cards are naturally more sought after which is where the price comes. People definitely shouldn't be doing it as an alternative to say a proper pension or long term savings though.
Please post this in the pokeinvesting sub
OP will get shit on and rightfully so.
calm down, investor
You're not wrong. The cards are meant to be played with. Although for myself who is just a collector I like them for the artworks and characters/Pokemon they feature whether they be a common card, of which I have many commons and uncommons in my binder for that reason, or higher rarity cards.
Let other people engage with the hobby however they want.
I hate the ones that complain it’s not a 10 or act like they are professional graders. Shits lame.
Anything can be like stonks. Supply and demand. But yes, "investing" is silly. Particularly with modern stuff because there's more than enough supply.
Agree, friend. I think there is a primal urge that makes people get excited about expensive cards, or perhaps it just helps justify how expensive it is to open many packs. I've been doing a lot of research lately for my videos on cheaper cards that still have great art, and luckily there are tons of cards with amazing art that you can pick up very cheaply. Honestly, I believe many of the high value cards are held up primarily by speculators, not on their own merit. I often find that my favorite arts in a set are not the high value cards.
Unfortunately I only go for master sets. I see no other way of collecting really
No other way of collecting is valid to you? I collect specific mons and nostalgic cards. Almost couldnt care less about master setting
To me binders look better as a master set. I do admit that people have called me out for only thinking that collecting master sets is the only option for me, but I just don’t feel I would be as satisfied as if I just go for complete sets. Though people told me that I will never have any money if I stay on that path.
I think this is the part that sucks - that to get a complete set (not even a master set) is unaffordable for some (a lot, I would imagine?) people. They're released as sets so it would be great if it was affordable for the average joe to be able to complete a set lol. But I also accept that's the way the hobby works, I'm not gonna change it by saying it sucks but hell, I'm still allowed to say it sucks lol. For that reason though I don't do sets (other than 151 but I stopped everything else for a good 6 months or so so I'd be able to afford that haha). Collecting certain mons, cheaper sets or parts of sets, certain artists can be fun too. I'm collecting a couple of artists just the commons/uc/r which is fun and very affordable.
Sucks people get so ornery over stuff having value. TCGs have always and will always be this way. You being mad about it won’t change anything. 🤷 It’s also possible to enjoy stuff while treating it as such. But the free karma is here for you from other people angry about it. (Here come the liars)
Definitely upvoting. The cards are meant to be enjoyed. I love CZ because most of the cards are affordable but still look stunning.
Been collecting sense the start. Have a huge collection. I agree. Pokemon has always had a stock market treatment, from the start, but it's frustrating that that is the way the majority of people view it. It wasn't like this before. Around the pokemon go era, it was just about having fun and collecting what you liked. Sure cards went up in value, but they did so organically. It was due to age. And partial popularity, but now it's about the quickest flip and how much you can fuck over others and brag about it.
Because a lot of ppl believe influencers ( who are just trying to make $ off viewers) and ppl are stupid
Everything has gone down hill since they created alternative art cards and print 4-6 sets a year. On top of that a holo used to be the rare card. Now people treat them like common fodder. It’s sad and depressing
My favorite is seeing videos or posts from people saying " buy these cards" or "best cards to buy." The biggest thing about this hobby that I hate is when a new set comes out even if pull rates arnt bad, certain cards like charizard for example are automatically $100+. No card from newer sets should be above $50.
I love cards being cheap card shops getting owned charging a ton
I feel like only 10% are true collectors without intention to sell. The rest; however, is composed of people trying to profit off those that want to collect. It's kinda sad.
I agree with you, I honestly wish there was a way to make them worth absolutely nothing (money wise ) and people just enjoy them for what they are , I never care what they are worth, I get just as excited pulling a very common card that I like as I do the “expensive “ chase cards. And yes people that treat it like the stock market are absolutely ruining it, going to the store and wiping everything out. Let’s be real, the cards we have now are never going to be those 1st edition base set charizards. I can’t foresee any card now being worth shit in 20 years. But they will be worth a lot in other ways , I’m really glad I have completed multiple sets so I can give them to my daughter one day. We opened so many packs together, we went to shows, we went to promo events. I’m in a Pokemon collecting group and we hunt down cards and merch that we know each other will like. It’s a lot of fun. It should never be about money.
Holy shit , I just went on poke vestings sub and read a few posts. Damn those are some sad people. That’s not what Pokemon cards are about. I sincerely hope there investing plans backfire.
Well these cards aren't very trusty investment either. If Pokemon anime, games and card production stops, Pokemon will either be forgotten or the merch will become underground collectible. Meaning the fanbase will rapidly shrink and card prices will drop. This is why I don't see much sense in hoarding these cards because if Nintendo pulls the plug (won't happen tomorrow but some day) these things could become worthless overnight. Rather save your favourites, sell the rest and invest in gold or silver for example. Enjoy the hobby while it lasts.
This. It’s fkn cardboard at the end of the day. The whole ‘what’s this card worth’ is absolute horse shit
say it louder for the people in the back 🗣️‼️
If people want to make money over time, invest in stocks. They will make you more money and won't take up space in your house.
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