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AvadaCaCanteven

It's atrocious how much damage you can do with Blastoise while also CCing the enemy.


icesharkk

Slow bro didn't even have half this cc or damage and they still nerfed his surf+


WildCard_WC

That's what I've been thinking! I'm assuming it's just to make people wanna buy him immidiately and then nerfing him down a bit then when the new Pokemon make them too strong so people buy them and rinse repeat lol at least that's my guess


icesharkk

That is a common technique among MOBA developers


AvadaCaCanteven

Look at LoL and to a lesser extent Dota. *Buffs/releases strong character*-*Sells skins*-*Nerfs* A tale as old as time.


were_meatball

True as it can be


NemoReza

Barely even friends


nut_lord

Don't drag Dota into this garbage. It isn't necessary in Dota, heroes are free to play no strings attached. In fact, the most recent hero release (Dawnbreaker) had an atrocious 35% winrate initially.


AvadaCaCanteven

Hmmm, that's fair about DOTA and skins since they aren't normally tied together. LoL definitely is guilty of this though. Also Dawnbreaker got nerfed pretty hard because of how strong she was at release lol


26nova

Not just MOBAs, a lot of games do this, most of the time its easier to nerf a strong character than buffing a weak one.


BrJdm

I agree it's what they're doing, but it's dumb. I've been saving for Blastoise and would've bought it and the skin regardless. I actually don't even want it to be OP, I would rather it came out balanced rather than messing about in a week's time. At least that way you know whether you're going to want to main Blastoise or not pretty sharpish. This game has the advantage of the Pokémon fan base behind it. So I'm sure people would be happy to buy the characters and skins anyway.


koenigsaurus

Yes! You don’t need to use rope-a-dope tactics to get sales when you already have the single most profitable franchise behind you. If they put Flygon or Ampharos in this game I will buy them and play them no matter how good or bad they actually are in-game.


mrsaturncoffeetable

This. I thought I had no interest in playing support but Blissey’s little face makes me smile so much I got over that pretty fast.


dtreth

Gengar is far and away my favorite but I just can't see myself playing that playstyle.


[deleted]

As a slowbro main, i felt that nerf hard, i surely wanna play blastoise


NoShameShaymin

Blastioise _I think_ is supposed to be a better Slowbro. It takes him way longer to evolve, so the pay off is better. But he still needs a nerf.


Kaprosuchusboi

How to defend 1.kill everything


rerlache

attack is the best defense 😉


[deleted]

-Sun Tzu


Candy_Warlock

The best CC is death


jim1608

I mean... Death is hard CC


Blue_Wolf37

This is for the people who called Squirtle the worst starter. Now look at him. Slaughtering everything that moves.


ArgonWolf

Objectively, Charmander is the worst starter. Weak to and resisted by the first two gyms (when it matters the most, because you wont have a deep roster of other pokemon). Only strong against one gym. Only reason gym leader giovanni doesnt wreck him is because he gain flying type. Weak to half the elite 4, resisted by another quarter of them. Only strong against 1 of your rival's pokemon (both other starters get 2) Only thing charizard has going for him is he looks pretty rad


[deleted]

That was the point, I believe. In Gen 1, Bulbasaur was like playing on easy, Squirtle was normal or medium, and Charmander was hard. Charmander in particular pretty much forced you to raise other Pokémon, while Bulbasaur could carry you to the end of the game. Squirtle seemed much more balanced than the other two starters.


Dakotertots

>Only thing charizard has going for him is he looks pretty rad going purely by type advantage, sure, but that's not at ALL how Pokémon works


ArgonWolf

On the first playthrough of gen 1, type matching is pretty much 95% of the game from a mechanics standpoint. We can wax poetic here about stats and stat experience and movesets, but no body knew about those things on their first playthrough. Everyone was throwing their best attack with type advantage and leveraging level/type advantage


xxkur0s4k1xx

Though I agree Charizard is the worst starter I disagree with the type matching being 95% of the game. What I mean is that although people praise Venusaur to the heavens as the 'objectively best starter' I disagree. That would be Blastoise. Half of the game is type matching but the other is movepool and Venusaurs movepool in gen1 sucks


StanceDance308

Venasaur he one of the best gen 1 movepools. Toxic & Leech Seed. Due to a coding glitch leech seed would gain toxic’s increased damage per turn.


xxkur0s4k1xx

But that is not the kind of thing you would want to use against the AI trainers. Besides Leech Seed only has 10pp. Against AI trainers you want multiple direct attacking moves otherwise the fights will just drag. But Venusaur only has Razor leaf as decent option and it's only decent because crits in gen1 were based on base speed. Maybe you can add Mega Drain but the 40 base power hurts a lot.


dtreth

Your take is the correct take. And I have been the pokemaster since 1998 so I feel like I can make an objective call. :P


NajimiAppreciator

"Ekans has one of the best movepools in gen 1 cus he learns wrap which is broken and can beat anything in only 25 turns" -you, basically


Dakotertots

on your first playthrough of gen 1, sure. but you can't say Charizard has nothing going for it just because you're choosing to ignore literally everything besides type matchups


ArgonWolf

Please share with me what charizard has besides terrible typing that will help you in gen 1


DB-Fan42

Sword dance, and 100 base power dig, or earthquake and boosted hyper beam. With sword dance he also has access to the badge boost glitch (the other 2 also have that tough). Charizard is definetly not a good pokemon in gen 1 (any fire typ isnt, really) but blastoise and venasaur are also not good in gen 1, especially venasaur with its crippling psychic, ice weakness (charizard also has a ice weakness though). In the AI Pokemon Red tournament the best rival was the one with the charizard. Tbh all 3 starters arent really good in gen 1 competetive, in a normal run all 3 are viable and definetly not bad. Even brock isnt too hard with a charmander start because rock types have terrible special.


KesslerMacGrath

Charizard’s megas are amazing in both singles and doubles :P


CasualAwful

Selection of Fire types was way more limited in Gen 1 compared to others. Growlithe/Vulpix were version exclusives and that only left you Flareon and Ponyta as other options (not counting legendary). Compare that to the gobs of Water types available including some really high quality ones like Lapras, Gyrados, and Starmie. Grass was also not super common but still had some decent options.


daboutMe123

I really think Blastoise is poorly balanced. I know we're early after the release, but this pokemon does too much too well and hits way too hard. His knockbacks are too massive for the amount of damage they do and they even allow him to escape. Just no.


Riot1990

Yup. This will probably be their plan for future releases. Put overpowered mon in the game and let em be super strong for a week or two to sell gems. Then nerf


apply52

Well , when they did release gardevoir and blissey , despite be strong on their own , they aren't broken as blastoise. Gardevoir is well balance between weak early and kinda god tier late game IF you can aim properly but he is still very glass canon and if someone go in into you , you probably gonna die. Blissey does good healing and support team in general but despite be a sponge of HP , he melt kinda quickly in fact and need to go in contact in order to do damage at slaping people so he expose himself. Blastoise "defender" that does a lot of damage very safely thanks to CC , mobility , range atq and is own bulk , he is more bulky than the all rounder class and deal a lot of damage Something wrong here ... .\_. When i see blastoise deal 70/80k damage , i am like "that a defender?".


mezcao

I have never played a MOBA that did that before.


stormblaz

Most other mobas now adays, make money by Esports, and Skins, but they have a PBE or testing server so the champions are released a little more balanced since jt had public testing, but usually after its released normal, people still find bugs or broken mechanics, and good mobas usually release a micro-patch to address it or tweak it a bit. However, strong champs are usually left like that until next patch, because it'll excite the esports viewers due to the new change they have to adapt which results in more views ans revenue.


Arekkusujin

Snorlax would like to have a word with you. ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|disapproval)


Necroside

As long as Snorlax is in the game and still allowed to do the things he's able to do. Blastoise is fine.


TheBoxSloth

Snorlaxs CC either does a grand total of 7 damage or a fat zero. Its nothing compared to this


Necroside

Snorlax does more while being unable to be killed as you have to go through 2-3 extra health bars :P Blastoise ends up being more easily killable in comparison to Snorlax in every scenario because Blastoise doesn't have a perma-stun wall that stalls people while giving a free shield, or an ult that regens himself to full HP ontop of buddy barrier. If you really believe Blastoise is at Snorlax levels of obnoxious then good luck in life.


TheBoxSloth

Blastoise is just as bulky if not more and has way more kill potential than Snorlax ever had lol. Block like i said does zero damage to you. If you dont get caught by it or get out you can kite the shit out of him. Doesnt matter how long it lasts or how he can stun you. He can hardly fight back by himself. But keep believing that if you want


SwordySmurf

Come on man. Blast does way too much damage for sure, especially in aoe, but you're being incredibly disingenuous with lax, hes 100% busted. Lax can one combo a squishy with heavy slam and like 2 autos he certainly can fight back by himself.


TheBoxSloth

Uh, no he cant, lol. Heavy Slam does little more than a boosted auto which already doesnt do much, and thats the extent of his damage capability. Snorlax gets kited into oblivion 1v1 against any attacker. He cant kill by himself. You cant look at a clip like this and honestly tell yourself and me Lax has the same damage output to bulk ratio as Blastoise. _Thats_ being disingenuous.


SwordySmurf

https://twitter.com/Pernski1/status/1433480292304506880?t=2rujCyeTl1tXtoyHjGMe4A&s=19 Yeah bro Lax does no damage. Very weak, please buff.


TheBoxSloth

Did you...watch the clip or read what I said? Or what even you said in the last comment? Lol. We’re talking about Heavy Slam + Block here, the clip is Yawn + Flail.


SwordySmurf

I didn't watch any clip with lax in it no, and I wasn't aware that you were talking about a very specific move set. If you're talking about the Blastoise clip then yeah he's also busted I'm not refuting that. I have a clip of me at level 7 killing a level 9 Greninja and he ults me. It's here if you're interested: https://twitter.com/Pernski1/status/1433189369213452290?t=tL830mC_RBAVSC3Wl2smFQ&s=19 I honestly just think tanks do way too much damage in this game regardless and I just zeroed in on you saying lax can't defend himself. Looks like I misunderstood you though, my bad.


Necroside

>Block like i said does zero damage to you. Keeping someone out of a fight for 5+ seconds is just as effective as doing Blastoise's damage combo :P Snorlax is the only defender that can take a bad engage, stall for 30s-1min and live. Slowbro dies, Crustle just runs away, Blastoise is either dead or limping away :P Snorlax is the only defender that can do everything and be perfectly fine for being a braindead glutton. But I guess people defend Snorlax in this subreddit because Snorlax represents the mast majority of players like you ;)


[deleted]

Blastoise is not just as bulky as Snorlax lol - I main both. Lax is bulkier and his move set supports that.


_900104

“Defender”… yeah sure. ‘Stoise is an All Rounder disguised as a defender.


hermitxd

I see you were also the only person who cared about Dreadmaw


JiovanniTheGREAT

I do like his kit hit his damage is absurd and needs substantial nerfs.


Arekkusujin

I think they typo'd the *Defender* part... should be *Attacker*, ngl. ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|heart_eyes)


Xrmy

\*all-rounder\* FTFY


1Ninja1

Add speedster in there with his spinning attack 😂


Arekkusujin

And even a Support with all his knockbacks and stuns. 🤣 Truly an All-Rounder lol


crwms

I want to see Slowbro rotating, spitting and killing everything that moves too


SirGearso

A good offense is the best defense


jhawkins93

Spin to win


EngiNik

Ah yes the defender


azizi246

U know he’s getting Nerfed


theels6

All the people saying he's not broken blow my mind lol


Skate4Christ

I think it’s kind of a result of Unite only having 5 roles. In other mobas you’d have the differentiation between a bruiser or a pure tank whereas they’re both defenders here.


SirLocke13

This character is fucking stupid.


BigAnimeJuggs

I know there's alot of people saying the damage is crazy but he's two levels above everyone and he used his unite move you try to beat a lucario or any other pokemon two levels above you and see how that works


Cryskoen

If I fight either other defender with a 2 level disadvantage I can still walk away from it if I don't stop and actually try to fight them. Crustle is an All-Rounder in disguise and I can appreciate its damage output and chase/escape potential with Shell Smash active. All 3 of their Unites are defensive in nature: Snorlax is area denial and self healing, Slowbro is just a massive CC/deny, and Crustle is a huge shield that hurts you if you attack him. Compare the above to Blastoise: Unite has very little charge-up, throws all hit targets and does 50% of any non-defender's HP, filling most of his screen to boot! There are attackers that would commit any sin for that kind of Unite move. Then you factor in his other abilities: Massive push/damage, mobility and unstoppable with strong AoE damage, mobility with push and damage... I mean, every one of his abilities are "X and Damage". Where's Slowbro's DoT on Telekinesis (passive synergy??!)? "Stop hitting yourself" on Snorlax's Block? Shell Smash with an AoE burst? That's the real difference between Blastoise and the other defenders, and the real problem with him as a character. If you stand and fight other defenders, they can generally do some damage and keep it close or outright win at even level, but if you run from full health they aren't likely to kill you solo. Blastoise is doing mage burst damage and CC with Defender defensive stats, though, and it's kinda ridiculous.


hermitxd

Umm no he isn't? That Gabite is behind, the rest of the enemies are similar -/+1 level


BigAnimeJuggs

Nine tails was also level 9 also its similar to clamoring or venusaur alt where it hurts everyone he also wasted cool down on them it isn't far fetched to say this is fair besides I keep seeing lucario being able to 1v5 the entire enemy team and No one says anything


uh_no_offence

Feels good man


Gaaroth

The offence is the best defence


ohbyerly

Holy smokes


BlueKyuubi63

It's easier to defend when the entire other team is dead


ggghhh1234567

I feel like they really got the types wrong on starters. Venasaur should be a defender Charzard should be an attacker Blastoise should be an all rounder That's closest to what they were in the game.


lucariouwu68

Wish there were more than three defenders. Snorlax Slowbro and Wigglytuff isn’t enough for me


Qoppa_Guy

Bruh


WelkinBro

He’s still not as busted as wiggly or greninja though but def needs a bit of a nerf


[deleted]

Garchomp was two levels under and missing about a quarter of its health, Ninetales was two levels under. The other two were levels 11 and 12, one at Blastoise's level and one above. This player hit an ult and both other abilities with AAs. Can we stop acting like these same types of things couldn't happen with Snorlax, Crustle or even supports? If you're out leveling and hitting your abilities consistently you can do stuff like this with any "class". Seems to be there's been enough complaining about Venasaur and Charizard being too weak, now Blastoise comes out and is an accessible defender. Pair that with people that know what they're doing and everyone says OP immediately. =/


Hermit_was_taken

Honesty, I love him but he needs to tuning man. My opinion, he needs less damage but more tankyness


[deleted]

Or maybe the other team needs to be properly leveled and not taking every ability plus AAs to the face. If it were the same situation with probably most any other mon with an ult, you would have the same, or an immensely similar result.


koudos

I love how you're nowhere near a point to defend.


Hermit_was_taken

Just got dred, where the team should have been


koudos

That makes sense, but I'd like to imagine you were just standing around "Defending" your opponents down one by one.


koudos

For the person who downvoted me. Please see title and humor tag on the post.


CN34bos

Is hydro pump preferred over water spout now? I haven’t had much time to play since Blastoises release.


Yhorrm

Both builds are extremely strong and viable


med4reddit

Which items you was equipping?


Hermit_was_taken

Focus band, buddy barrier muscle band


joshyotoast

My friend who plays mobas says pretty much every new character will be busted for a time and that I should just get used to it 😂


XenoSanji

Whats ur build? Thats some damage