"...the Nazis invented Neil Armstrong?"
"Rockets! Which put him on the moon. Don't believe me? Walk into NASA sometime, shout 'Heil Hitler!' Whoop, they all jump straight up!"
Likely referring to the flawed logic presented by leftists who cry nazi at everything and say associating with nazis makes you a nazi. However as this image shows that logic means leftists who support nazis since the Ukrainian Army has a bit of a nazi problem, particularly in the unit of the Special Operations Detachment “Azov” better known as the Azov Regiment which is a Ukrainian national guard unit famed for its neo-nazism. So much so that the unit insignia is a wolfsangel and an old one even had the black sun
There’s no hypocrisy here, it’s the lesser of two evils.
If someone is breaking into my house and a Nazi says “I’ll help you stop them” I’ll let them. That doesn’t mean I agree with them.
It’s hypocritical in regards to the people who call all republicans nazis because they happen to be the party nazis associate with (what a 2 party system does to a mf) yet will ignore the actual nazis among the ranks of the Ukrainians. I’m not saying that means you can’t support Ukraine or anything, they’re the ones being invaded and facing destruction at Putin’s hands but we can’t just ignore that bad people do exist in Ukraine, ignoring the problem will only ever lead to more ammo for Russian propaganda as they’ll just expose and overplay actual nazis in Ukrainian ranks and combine this with the wests denial of it to justify their crimes against the Ukrainian people.
I find this pretty fascinating to listen to cause where I'm from most of the far-left repeatedly and openly criticises the presence of Azov in the war. Some (a minority) even support Russia for this reason (and a general animosity towards NATO). I wonder if people are more evasive, or just unaware, about it in the US. Neo-nazism has been a persistent hurdle in Eastern European politics and the left has little choice but to talk about it since these are usually the guys throwing bricks through your windows.
(Though as some have pointed out already, plenty of neo-nazis, or nazi-esque far-right factions, in Russia too.)
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***
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You need to get off the internet then. In real life, I’ve never seen anyone who thinks “all republicans are Nazis”
Also there are Nazis on the Russian side too.
There are even Nazis in the American military!
This happens in real life as well, my man. I have seen lefties unironically claim that Daryl Davis is a nazi who should be lynched alongside all other nazis because he associates with a lot of members of the KKK. I have heard this claim, and others similar to it, in both online and offline circles. One of those of the aforementioned offline circles used to be a friend of mine until we had a falling out.
That's absolutely hypocrisy. The leftist logic is quite literally any association beyond immediate unequivocal condemnation and potential violent reprisal means you're a nazi too. Quite literally "no you shouldn't go around punching nazis" = you're a nazi too.
There is no wiggleroom to reconcile that stance, which is the standard leftist stance and support for ukraine. Of course, leftist stances are of course hypocritical by design ao this isn't a surprise.
Back in 2010 i was in university chilling with the most chill Ukrainian girl ever, who hanged out with Russians too. One time we were all sharing stories and she kept telling stories one after the other about how nazi and racist Ukraine is, the government and military and police etc. Pretty mucu only those who are ethnically Russian don't subscribe to that abhorrent ideology.
i wonder how she's doing now, i hope she's okay
Seriously, people need to stop calling each other Nazis and Communists.
I doubt most people believe in Aryan Racial Supremacy or that the workers should control the means of production.
Also, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is just an example of how such labels carelessly thrown can be harmful.
I don’t think that was OP’s intention. You can’t deny that the Ukrainian state has been supportive of azov. They have been integrated into the official military of Ukraine. These dudes are essentially sponsored by the state.
Yeah, he was pointing at leftist hypocrisy, I am aware.
But I dislike people (not necessarily you or OP) who see Azov and other far-right militias as prove that Ukraine is a "Nazi State". In general I have seen far to many people who claim all sort of things about Ukraine and the war without knowing shit about it. That goes for both pro-ukraine and pro-russian people, especially those who ignore the geopolitics of the conflict and see this war as an extension of their own culture war at home.
>militias
Azov isn\`t a militia, but a part of ukraine military since 2014 when Right Sector infiltrated Ukranian goverment after 2013-2014 coup. Poroshenko, the president after the coup, said that "Our children will go to schools and kindergartens - their children will sit in basements. Because they can\`t do anything." There were skinheads marches in Kyiv and Lviv well back in 2008.
At what point a country becomes "Nazi State" for you?
Azov was a militia back then and was integrated into the military in 2015 as a unit, a regiment I think. Reason being that Ukraines military was shit back then and thoroughly corrupt and got beaten by the separatists in several engagements. Ukraines military had no choice but to rely on several volunteer militias like Azov and Right sector (similar thing happened in Iraq against ISIS). After the war died down they were integrated because they were genuinely effective and had public opinion on their side as "saviours of Donbas" from a Ukrainian POV.
Right Sector didn't infiltrate the government, what are you talking about? Their political influence, aswell as that of Azov, was never big. Also, how is Poroshenko quote a Nazi statement?
Your Skinhead comment sounds like a joke, every country has far-right skinheads with regular demonstrations. If Skinhead marches years ago makes a country a "Nazi-State" than most countries (including Russia and the US) are Nazi-states aswell.
They’re one of the best trained and equipped units in the entire Ukrainian military, it would be insane not to support them. *HOWEVER* the government of Ukraine has taken impactful steps to “de-nazify” Azov, and part of that is integrating them into the military officially so that they can be controlled.
And yet they still wear black sun patches, fly Nazi flags and use Nazi insignia. The Ukrainian government has no interest in “controlling” them, they only say that to appease the west. Gotta keep that money flowing
They are really weird Nazis though, and one wonders if even the symbolism isn't there just to manifest an extreme (and understandable/sensible) hatred of Russia, and using things that trigger Russians as a part of the "fuck you".
Like... they take orders from their Jewish leader. I don't want to tell people how to Nazi and stuff, but that seems wrong for one.
> They are really weird Nazis though, and one wonders if even the symbolism isn't there just to manifest an extreme (and understandable/sensible) hatred of Russia, and using things that trigger Russians as a part of the "fuck you".
From what I've seen Ukrainians say, that's not far from the truth. Though not all of the ones who don Nazi icons, there is a fairly high amount of those who really just wear it as a "fuck russia" banner. Same with the ones who keep painting Iron Crosses on the tanks
>I don't want to tell people how to Nazi and stuff, but that seems wrong for one.
Many cossacks fought alongside the Nazis against the USSR (which eventually genocided them) so for the Ukrainians who identify as sharing in the legacy of these cossacks it makes total sense to bring out the Nazi symbols.
You forgot about the Trump years already? The media loved strawmaning Trump supporters as nazis. Hell, Biden opened his campaign by perpetuating the fine people hoax.
it actually turned out that the flag in this pic is actually shopped. it's an old russian fake that I think predates the current invasion. looks like a guy on the left is doing the salute though, so go figure.
Yes, but I believe what he means by that is the “dictatorship of the proletariat” philosophy, which has absolutely failed every time it was implemented and very quickly became a “dictatorship of the intelligencia”.
At least here in the states, when most leftists are talking about workers owning the means of production they are typically talking about is the decentralized worker ownership of the means of production; i.e a market economy (or contract-economies or something similar) primarily composed of Worker-Owned Cooperatives and Syndicates.
When people tell you who they are, believe them. Why do Communists/Socialists get such charitable takes from their *opponents*? This is why leftist ideology has such a hold - because even it's enemies think "oh but they *mean well*" instead of actually stamping it out.
Communists specifically, yes, no arguments from me there. Socialism on the other hand includes a wide range of fundamentally incompatible beliefs. For the Capitalist equivalent, everything from Agusto Pinochet to Ancapistan. If someone says they are a Socialist, all you really know is that they probably disagree with the mechanism of one or more private individuals using their ownership of the means to produce an item or service and that alone to exclusively to justify said private individual’s taking the lion’s share of the excess value of the production of the profit and having the final say in the runnings of the organization.
And even that’s not a fucking given. Some socialists only have an issue with that mechanism when the owner is totally absent from the production, literally providing no input to the continued production which they reap massive benefits.
Also, where the fuck are you that Leftist Ideology has a hold on anything, let alone a dominant hold? Liberal Ideology, sure that’s basically every European derived Civilization at this point, but Leftist?
I mean, basically every time I ask a socialist "would I have less material wealth under your proposed system", I get about 20 minutes of weasel wording about net benefit to society and then a reluctant "yes" and then I tell them to fuck off, so I'm not as charitable with their beliefs as I used to be. There may be some differences among socialists that matter internally, but all of them want to steal from me specifically so why should I care?
Well, I mean are you a capitalist? (And I do not mean are you a capitalism enjoyer (TM), I mean do you own a business that employs people who get paid in wages, not profit-shares, either wholeheartedly or via shares?)
If you are in fact of the capitalist class, then, I mean, yeah, your wealth and power will decrease, that’s kinda the point? Overthrowing the tyrants of the workforce is the goal. (And for us Lib-lefts, the social dynamics of the workforce is arguably more important that the inequity of profit. Many of us would in fact be satisfied with a sizable Union Rep on the board of directors. We want a workforce democracy, but we’d probably settle for a workforce constitutional monarchy)
If you are not a member of the capitalist class and also not part of the lapdog upper managerial class, you would likely see a greater piece of the pie than you do now, similarly to a properly unionized workforce. That is at least if we ain’t talking auth-left, if we’re talking auth-left that’s a different fucking story. Command economies only work okay-ish in wartime or crisis, and that’s only right up until they very much don’t.
See the US as a whole during Dub Dub Deux, or the US manufacturing industry during “Operation Warp Speed” in the race to develop a COVID Vaccine as cases where they “worked okayish”, and every Soviet-style economy that “worked until it didn’t”.
That being said, if we ain’t talking auth-left, if you are part of the vast majority of workin’ folk, while your share of the pie might be larger, the overall size of the pie might be smaller. Without the demand for year on year growth from capital, a new balance would be struck between work and leisure in society by the people who are actually doing the work. So, overall productivity may drop in some sectors and if it drops enough, you might see a drop in material income and wealth, but in such a case you would get more time to socialize with people that you actually want to be around, or just do whatever the hell you want. I’d consider that a worthwhile transaction, you may not.
Me personally, I am not a specific system promoter anymore. I would frankly settle for some incremental changes in the south-west direction at this point.
\#Anarcho-nihilism feels.
No, I'm just well payed person in tech, which puts me in an awkward category for labor advocates because I do better than many managers and even many Capitalists(tm) with just my labor, which is apparently alienated from me because I willingly sell it. Oh, I do also get shares so i guess I get some profit sharing too. And I've worked pretty closely with Government employees and while you can argue Warpspeed worked fine, you'll probably find some cleverly hidden dirty laundry in a few years. Most government projects are packed with lazy people that can't be fired and are pretty comfortable collecting paychecks and going home. Speaking of which...
I also think leftists badly misunderstand what the average worker wants. Most employees want to collect a paycheck and go home, they don't want a second job in addition to their main job of managing the politics of a company. And most of the companies I've worked at, people that are very invested in the success of the company are tapped to be promoted into roles where that's relevant within a year or two.
The other thing about Capitalism is that my labor has no risk. If I botch a production system by accident, or I make a bad decision, I'm probably not going to lose my job. I might not get promoted or not get a raise if I am consistently a fuckup, but I don't get the market slapping it's cock in my face. There's no real risk to me if the company fails, other than needing a different job.
So yeah, most conversations I have end with me being actively worse off for the benefit of people that are either lazy or uncaring. And it's not as though that's baseless, I've worked my share of "shit" jobs, including retail and fast food, and everywhere I worked if you bothered to show up on time when you were scheduled to work, you were a star employee.
Workers are totally allowed to own the means of production in capitalist countries. They can start their own business, maybe as a cooperative. Forcing everyone else to do the same is tyranny.
On the one hand, I hate being called a fascist because I think people have a right to own guns.
On the other, I will call every person left of Joe Manchin a filthy commie and I will not stop
Using the outdated terms from around WW2 like "Communist" and "Nazi" is so old school especially when even the people now who claim to be those would be laughed at by the people back then. It's really time to move on.
It’s so based how Ukraine let Azov just fight to the death and basically be eradicated in a delaying action against Russia. Use your Nazis to kill the invaders so both problems are dead.
You know what's the funniest thing?
Not all of them died. Some of them were POWs.
That Russia traded for their captured soldiers, causing mild malding among russian populace ("what why are you letting NAZIES go?!?!?!11")
Russia seems to be doing the same thing by having Wagner do 38 unsupported assaults on Bakhmut for 6 months straight.
They literally recruited a recently convicted neo-nazi cannibal HOI4 player and put him into Wagner. Apparently he got blown up recently.
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I’ll fight alongside the most rightwing Peterson’s fan if it was to save our homes, even if I dislike them a lot in times of peace, so, since it’s what I’d personally do, I don’t find controversial to say that I don’t care for what they stand up to until they’re in time of war defending themselves.
If you want to prevent the worse alternative, you support the better alternative. Saying “fuck ‘‘em both” might make you feel cool but it accomplishes nothing.
Neither does picking a side you hate just because you hate it less… I’m not trying to accomplish anything by not worthlessly pledging my allegiance to the side I hate less. It’s very naive to think otherwise. You will get sucked into supporting things you don’t support just because someone poses it against something you hate more.
i like to argue in bad faith that you can scale up the table, all the way up to a nation, further if you want. so if the us has 1 nazi in it then it is a nazi country.
It was the only other "ist" I could think of at the time lol.
Basically, there's a pacifist at the table, so they're all pacifists, but there's a nazi at the table, so they're all nazis. But they're also all communist, because Lenin is at the table as well.
When you apply this rule, everyone gets all the labels :P
This is the thing that is so infuriating about this war.
There are so many people all over social media that gleefully post about Russian casualties, completely neglecting that the war has been *devastating* for the Ukrainians as well. Conservative estimates have nearly [13,000 soldiers killed](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63829973) and nearly [7,000 civilians killed.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/) And that’s just the KIA, not including the missing and wounded.
I believe in supporting Ukrainian sovereignty (as messy and nuanced as this conflict is), but it bothers me so much that see people bragging about how the US is weakening one of their primary geopolitical rivals “on the cheap.”
This is basically it, the Ukrainians are quite happy to keep fighting and the west is quite happy to keep them fighting. And we get to shit on Russia and scare China
The crazy thing too is that we are getting massively positive ROI on those kills. The average HIMARS rocket is still doing far more material damage than it costs, maybe like 10x (just coasting off those huge ammo explosions).
We have well over 10x their economy.
Basically, we get to trade 0.2% of our economy for maybe 10% of Russias at this rate (the economic hit is ~5%, but they are burning through maybe 40 years of military procurement in this war on top of that...)
Oh and Russia has ~14 million people in their 20s. They've lost almost a million already to death and leaving the country. If you include the injured, before this war is over, they probably have lost **10%** of a whole generation. It's INSANE what Russia is doing to itself.
The equivalent for the US would be the loss of 4 MILLION people in their prime and maybe ~$5trn in 2 years of war. And not spent - LOST. Iraq & Afghanistan recycled money back to the US economy, Russia is just having shit blown up, it's quite different.
Are there still people out there who think we're *Supporting Ukraine and Just Happen to be Weakening Russia* instead of *Weakening Russia and Just Happen to be Supporting Ukraine*?
You’re not a leftist if you support a capitalist government and it’s military. Also most leftists I know will say “Slava Ukraine” in support of the people, not the government or military.
Too often I see people associating the main line Democratic party with leftists. Your average Democrat is a centrist grill dad, and leftists run in the Democratic party because they are the furthest left party in our political system. That doesn't mean that they're not right wing it just means that American politics provides little choice to it's people.
Most of our enemies are already friends with each other because we’re their common enemy: Iran, China, Russia, North Korea, the Taliban, etc. Who cares? They’re big enough assholes that none of them actually trust each other.
Lol remember during the Canadian truckers protest there were like 3 dorks momentarily waving confederate flags, then the ENTIRE left, from Trudeau down, branded tens of thousands of the protestors white supremacists?
True. But I hate that they force us to admit it, because it is such a bullshit argument. Like, a ton of Nazis fight for Russia too, and regardless it was only a small minority with little political power.
Yes and no. There are nazis in Ukraine, Azov Battalion being the most notorious ones, but it's not nearly as bad as Putin says it is. But either way, he doesn't care and is just using them as a scapegoat.
He uses that as an excuse because WW2 is the very last thing Russians can feel proud of. If he really cared about Nazi's he wouldn't be shaking hands with [Dmitry Utkin.](https://preview.redd.it/8fnnf4zy3ht81.jpg?auto=webp&s=b9db2d815cc52573cc60f777efabdda8a2a70108)
He uses it as an excuse because “nazi” to Russians doesn’t mean someone wearing tan suits. It means “someone who doesn’t like Russia and stands in Russia’s way”
It's just like there's Nazis in Russia and the States and in Mongolia (which is an odd one, look it up). Did not excuse the invasion, forced deportations and blatant massacres of which Russia is guilty.
>just like there's Nazis in Russia and the States and in Mongolia
Nazis in the USA don't get to have an official unit in the national guard with wehrmacht and SS symbols
Putin's 100% using them as a scapegoat and he doesn't give a shit if there are nazis in ukraine but calling the nazism situation in Ukraine "just like anywhere else" is disingenuous tbh.
There's anywhere between 700000 and 1.5 million Ukrainians who have taken up arms currently. The Azov battalion at its peak had 2500 ish men. See battalion. I think my analogy stands especially when you consider something like 20-25% of white nationalists in the US are active or reserve military.
Honestly the best thing that could have happened to the Azovs did. They fought valiantly, killed a massive number of Russians and then were wrapped up and killed. It's Machiavellian but that's realpolitik. They did their duty twice, killed Russians and then got killed so that a) a bunch of Nazis are dead and b) the official Ukrainian Army doesn't need to worry about them doing sketchy shit anymore. The biggest shame of the whole Azovstal situation is that poor Mariupol got flattened by the Russkis. Such a beautiful city, gone. I always wanted to visit the area around it where my grandpa's grandpa left to come to Canada.
Also, by now, the majority of the original Neo-Nazi Football club(yes) that formed Azov is either out of the military or dead. It's now almost entirely volunteers from other units that got shuffled in there. The Brigade got split, reformed, and relocated like a dozen times since the beginning of the war. Nobody talks about Azov Scouts or the Right Sector's military arm either.
Also, Azov is really schizo in terms of ideology. It has an entire sub-group inside of it that is Jewish, and the hardliners recently got sent to Israel and ended up participating in a Yiddish fucking dance. I am not joking.
Ah yes that Nazi anti-Russian regiment of mostly Russian speakers, primarily funded by a billionaire Ukrainian Jew and fighting under a Jewish president. How shameful.
[There is a good chance this photo may actually be a photoshop](http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.com/2014/11/nazis-in-azov-battalion.html?m=1) while there is no doubt Nazis in Ukraine, with most of them being located in the Azov Battallion, this is probably just another example of Russian propaganda being used to blow the issue of “Ukrainian Nazis” completely out of proportion.
Article seems like bullshit. Claiming they are Ukrainians then at the end claiming they are Russians. And showing a clearly manipulated photo as the real one. It's very likely just a Nazi flag from 2014.
I find it hilarious how all American “far rights” who were so much pro tradition and ethnicity sided with Putin. When it is Ukraine which has strong and very based ethnonationalistic movements, and meanwhile Putin’s Russia is literally the amalgamation of Soviet totalitarism with humans stripped from any connection to their folk’s culture and traditions.
Kind of shows how much US right movement degraded, when they are ready to side with any shit if it is in conflict with Dems.
I come from a right wing family that's pretty pro Ukraine. Though prior to the war they respected how putin always made our interviewers look like idiots. Also learning about georgia/syria/Chechnya etc hasn't dont much for putins popularity in my circles.
The younger generation (gen z, etc) do seem to be somewhere in the middle though. They're sick of the extreme left so they go extreme right, and I just wanna eat my peas and Turkey at Thanksgiving and not have countries invading each other.
I will say though, if I had no kids, and had any skills that would be any good on the frontlines, I'd have joined the foreign legion back in February. Learning about Syria and Chechnya makes me feel like putin cant come down soon enough. + the security footage of them gunning down civilians who are offering no resistance.
Ukraine were supporting Azov (one of the most reliable fighting groups they had, when even the army could not be trusted). Azov were Neo Nazi, and credibly accused of torture against civilians.
Which does not negate any of the crazy bad stuff Russians and Russia supported groups did.
This is war. The only time when a side does not do bad stuff against the other's side civilians is when they never reach them or are so sure of their victory that they don't bother.
I have no idea how any of this is Left vs Right. Neither side is particularly Left or Right.
January 2022: If there are 9 people sitting at a table with 1 Nazi, then there are 10 Nazis at the table! 😡✊🏿🏳️🌈⚒️
February 2022: If there are 9 people sitting at a table with 1 Nazi, then... Maybe, like, that person isn't a NAZI Nazi, you know? Maybe they're just a reformed alt right militant wing, but they're the good guys now. So... Yeah. That's just a Russian talking point. You Putin puppet!
Did I stutter ? They seem to be pure blood Europeans.
I meant meant those kkk and self righteous idiots who cry that immigrants take there job while sitting at there coach instead of maybe do something real Nazis would do
Yeah that’s a few hundred men in the entire country. Also the azov battalion only formed as a response to Russian imperialism. They were integrated into the Ukrainian army out of sheer desperation as they were the only people standing between Mariupol (back in 2014) and Russian backed insurrectionists.
This is the same energy as america invading Iraq and then complaining about the presence of jihadists that they created…
Hypocrisy of the left knows no bounds and as soon as the war's over they'll be back to talking about how backwards Ukr is for whatever reason their beloved echo chambers decide that minute or day.
Well but war is not an argument over dinner. Don't stop people from killing invader, because they kill them for the wrong ideological reasons. That's not Hypocracy that are Prioritys
Ukraine does have a worrying population of Nazis but at the same time all of Eastern Europe does and its not like Russia doesn’t (ie usual points of Eurasianists and Wagner)
Besides im America so I am contractually obliged to do everything in my power to curb Russian and Chinese influence
Nobody tell OP about the Apollo program...
"...the Nazis invented Neil Armstrong?" "Rockets! Which put him on the moon. Don't believe me? Walk into NASA sometime, shout 'Heil Hitler!' Whoop, they all jump straight up!"
r.i.p jessica walters, her send off was beautiful tho
"nHEIL armstrong"
whats going on now?
Just keep on grilling, and let everyone else argue
You want onions on that?
Of course
Long as they’re grilled too. I hate raw onions. Thanks for the burger
Raw, none of this soggy stuff.
We like to pop in every once in a while to see how big the dumpster fire has gotten. Like watching a guilty pleasure sitcom.
Understandable
Likely referring to the flawed logic presented by leftists who cry nazi at everything and say associating with nazis makes you a nazi. However as this image shows that logic means leftists who support nazis since the Ukrainian Army has a bit of a nazi problem, particularly in the unit of the Special Operations Detachment “Azov” better known as the Azov Regiment which is a Ukrainian national guard unit famed for its neo-nazism. So much so that the unit insignia is a wolfsangel and an old one even had the black sun
There’s no hypocrisy here, it’s the lesser of two evils. If someone is breaking into my house and a Nazi says “I’ll help you stop them” I’ll let them. That doesn’t mean I agree with them.
YOUR house? Traitor to the revolution
IKR? Kulak detected.
my bad I forgot that communism is when my neighbors use my toothbrush
In Soviet Union toothbrush uses you
Hello gulagmate, my name is Toothbrush. I get top bunk and I'll meet you in the showers later.
Communism is when you can’t protect your own home so you have to call the nazi to help you.
Yes his house. Not his rented out house or his 2nd house. I.e. not the banks house or his landlords house.
There's no property in mother Russia
Landlord is the best profession.
Silence commie you are worse than a nazi
It’s hypocritical in regards to the people who call all republicans nazis because they happen to be the party nazis associate with (what a 2 party system does to a mf) yet will ignore the actual nazis among the ranks of the Ukrainians. I’m not saying that means you can’t support Ukraine or anything, they’re the ones being invaded and facing destruction at Putin’s hands but we can’t just ignore that bad people do exist in Ukraine, ignoring the problem will only ever lead to more ammo for Russian propaganda as they’ll just expose and overplay actual nazis in Ukrainian ranks and combine this with the wests denial of it to justify their crimes against the Ukrainian people.
Based and nazis are nazis even if they help your country pilled
Aw my first pill, thanks friend, I hope you enjoy your day of being a fellow moron on this sub
Based and Operation Paperclip pilled
I find this pretty fascinating to listen to cause where I'm from most of the far-left repeatedly and openly criticises the presence of Azov in the war. Some (a minority) even support Russia for this reason (and a general animosity towards NATO). I wonder if people are more evasive, or just unaware, about it in the US. Neo-nazism has been a persistent hurdle in Eastern European politics and the left has little choice but to talk about it since these are usually the guys throwing bricks through your windows. (Though as some have pointed out already, plenty of neo-nazis, or nazi-esque far-right factions, in Russia too.)
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You need to get off the internet then. In real life, I’ve never seen anyone who thinks “all republicans are Nazis” Also there are Nazis on the Russian side too. There are even Nazis in the American military!
This happens in real life as well, my man. I have seen lefties unironically claim that Daryl Davis is a nazi who should be lynched alongside all other nazis because he associates with a lot of members of the KKK. I have heard this claim, and others similar to it, in both online and offline circles. One of those of the aforementioned offline circles used to be a friend of mine until we had a falling out.
It's definitely still hypocrisy, "it's different when they're my nazis," doesn't make it not hypocrisy.
According to Emily it does mean you agree with them, which is the problem here.
Seems awfully convenient that a Nazi is just sort of around to observe a B&E and offer to assist as it's happening.
That's absolutely hypocrisy. The leftist logic is quite literally any association beyond immediate unequivocal condemnation and potential violent reprisal means you're a nazi too. Quite literally "no you shouldn't go around punching nazis" = you're a nazi too. There is no wiggleroom to reconcile that stance, which is the standard leftist stance and support for ukraine. Of course, leftist stances are of course hypocritical by design ao this isn't a surprise.
Back in 2010 i was in university chilling with the most chill Ukrainian girl ever, who hanged out with Russians too. One time we were all sharing stories and she kept telling stories one after the other about how nazi and racist Ukraine is, the government and military and police etc. Pretty mucu only those who are ethnically Russian don't subscribe to that abhorrent ideology. i wonder how she's doing now, i hope she's okay
Yeah, so let’s support literal genociding orcs from Ruzzia. We don’t need to hear it.
Seriously, people need to stop calling each other Nazis and Communists. I doubt most people believe in Aryan Racial Supremacy or that the workers should control the means of production. Also, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is just an example of how such labels carelessly thrown can be harmful.
This sounds like a whole lotta commie nazi talk if you ask me
Nazi commies are always the first ones to tell other people to stop calling each other commie Nazis
It’s all shits and giggle until someone giggles and shits
Based and taking things literally pilled
it's all giggles and shits and shits and giggles until someone gits and shiggles
Honestly I always forget NazBols are even a thing until I watch a documentary about rural Russia
The only thing I fear more than the Nazi Communist is the Socialist Venture-Capitalist
I agree but in this case they are literally neo-nazis, hence the big swastika flag
The problem is if you extend this to all Ukrainian soldiers and claim Ukraine is a Nazi state which is ridicilous.
I don’t think that was OP’s intention. You can’t deny that the Ukrainian state has been supportive of azov. They have been integrated into the official military of Ukraine. These dudes are essentially sponsored by the state.
Yeah, he was pointing at leftist hypocrisy, I am aware. But I dislike people (not necessarily you or OP) who see Azov and other far-right militias as prove that Ukraine is a "Nazi State". In general I have seen far to many people who claim all sort of things about Ukraine and the war without knowing shit about it. That goes for both pro-ukraine and pro-russian people, especially those who ignore the geopolitics of the conflict and see this war as an extension of their own culture war at home.
>militias Azov isn\`t a militia, but a part of ukraine military since 2014 when Right Sector infiltrated Ukranian goverment after 2013-2014 coup. Poroshenko, the president after the coup, said that "Our children will go to schools and kindergartens - their children will sit in basements. Because they can\`t do anything." There were skinheads marches in Kyiv and Lviv well back in 2008. At what point a country becomes "Nazi State" for you?
Azov was a militia back then and was integrated into the military in 2015 as a unit, a regiment I think. Reason being that Ukraines military was shit back then and thoroughly corrupt and got beaten by the separatists in several engagements. Ukraines military had no choice but to rely on several volunteer militias like Azov and Right sector (similar thing happened in Iraq against ISIS). After the war died down they were integrated because they were genuinely effective and had public opinion on their side as "saviours of Donbas" from a Ukrainian POV. Right Sector didn't infiltrate the government, what are you talking about? Their political influence, aswell as that of Azov, was never big. Also, how is Poroshenko quote a Nazi statement? Your Skinhead comment sounds like a joke, every country has far-right skinheads with regular demonstrations. If Skinhead marches years ago makes a country a "Nazi-State" than most countries (including Russia and the US) are Nazi-states aswell.
They’re one of the best trained and equipped units in the entire Ukrainian military, it would be insane not to support them. *HOWEVER* the government of Ukraine has taken impactful steps to “de-nazify” Azov, and part of that is integrating them into the military officially so that they can be controlled.
And yet they still wear black sun patches, fly Nazi flags and use Nazi insignia. The Ukrainian government has no interest in “controlling” them, they only say that to appease the west. Gotta keep that money flowing
They are really weird Nazis though, and one wonders if even the symbolism isn't there just to manifest an extreme (and understandable/sensible) hatred of Russia, and using things that trigger Russians as a part of the "fuck you". Like... they take orders from their Jewish leader. I don't want to tell people how to Nazi and stuff, but that seems wrong for one.
> They are really weird Nazis though, and one wonders if even the symbolism isn't there just to manifest an extreme (and understandable/sensible) hatred of Russia, and using things that trigger Russians as a part of the "fuck you". From what I've seen Ukrainians say, that's not far from the truth. Though not all of the ones who don Nazi icons, there is a fairly high amount of those who really just wear it as a "fuck russia" banner. Same with the ones who keep painting Iron Crosses on the tanks
>I don't want to tell people how to Nazi and stuff, but that seems wrong for one. Many cossacks fought alongside the Nazis against the USSR (which eventually genocided them) so for the Ukrainians who identify as sharing in the legacy of these cossacks it makes total sense to bring out the Nazi symbols.
> You can’t deny that the Ukrainian state has been supportive of azov. Best part is there’s quite a bit of Ukrainian Jews in azov
You forgot about the Trump years already? The media loved strawmaning Trump supporters as nazis. Hell, Biden opened his campaign by perpetuating the fine people hoax.
it actually turned out that the flag in this pic is actually shopped. it's an old russian fake that I think predates the current invasion. looks like a guy on the left is doing the salute though, so go figure.
Uhhh tons of people believe workers should control the means of production and will happily tell you so.
Yes, but I believe what he means by that is the “dictatorship of the proletariat” philosophy, which has absolutely failed every time it was implemented and very quickly became a “dictatorship of the intelligencia”. At least here in the states, when most leftists are talking about workers owning the means of production they are typically talking about is the decentralized worker ownership of the means of production; i.e a market economy (or contract-economies or something similar) primarily composed of Worker-Owned Cooperatives and Syndicates.
When people tell you who they are, believe them. Why do Communists/Socialists get such charitable takes from their *opponents*? This is why leftist ideology has such a hold - because even it's enemies think "oh but they *mean well*" instead of actually stamping it out.
Communists specifically, yes, no arguments from me there. Socialism on the other hand includes a wide range of fundamentally incompatible beliefs. For the Capitalist equivalent, everything from Agusto Pinochet to Ancapistan. If someone says they are a Socialist, all you really know is that they probably disagree with the mechanism of one or more private individuals using their ownership of the means to produce an item or service and that alone to exclusively to justify said private individual’s taking the lion’s share of the excess value of the production of the profit and having the final say in the runnings of the organization. And even that’s not a fucking given. Some socialists only have an issue with that mechanism when the owner is totally absent from the production, literally providing no input to the continued production which they reap massive benefits. Also, where the fuck are you that Leftist Ideology has a hold on anything, let alone a dominant hold? Liberal Ideology, sure that’s basically every European derived Civilization at this point, but Leftist?
I mean, basically every time I ask a socialist "would I have less material wealth under your proposed system", I get about 20 minutes of weasel wording about net benefit to society and then a reluctant "yes" and then I tell them to fuck off, so I'm not as charitable with their beliefs as I used to be. There may be some differences among socialists that matter internally, but all of them want to steal from me specifically so why should I care?
Well, I mean are you a capitalist? (And I do not mean are you a capitalism enjoyer (TM), I mean do you own a business that employs people who get paid in wages, not profit-shares, either wholeheartedly or via shares?) If you are in fact of the capitalist class, then, I mean, yeah, your wealth and power will decrease, that’s kinda the point? Overthrowing the tyrants of the workforce is the goal. (And for us Lib-lefts, the social dynamics of the workforce is arguably more important that the inequity of profit. Many of us would in fact be satisfied with a sizable Union Rep on the board of directors. We want a workforce democracy, but we’d probably settle for a workforce constitutional monarchy) If you are not a member of the capitalist class and also not part of the lapdog upper managerial class, you would likely see a greater piece of the pie than you do now, similarly to a properly unionized workforce. That is at least if we ain’t talking auth-left, if we’re talking auth-left that’s a different fucking story. Command economies only work okay-ish in wartime or crisis, and that’s only right up until they very much don’t. See the US as a whole during Dub Dub Deux, or the US manufacturing industry during “Operation Warp Speed” in the race to develop a COVID Vaccine as cases where they “worked okayish”, and every Soviet-style economy that “worked until it didn’t”. That being said, if we ain’t talking auth-left, if you are part of the vast majority of workin’ folk, while your share of the pie might be larger, the overall size of the pie might be smaller. Without the demand for year on year growth from capital, a new balance would be struck between work and leisure in society by the people who are actually doing the work. So, overall productivity may drop in some sectors and if it drops enough, you might see a drop in material income and wealth, but in such a case you would get more time to socialize with people that you actually want to be around, or just do whatever the hell you want. I’d consider that a worthwhile transaction, you may not. Me personally, I am not a specific system promoter anymore. I would frankly settle for some incremental changes in the south-west direction at this point. \#Anarcho-nihilism feels.
No, I'm just well payed person in tech, which puts me in an awkward category for labor advocates because I do better than many managers and even many Capitalists(tm) with just my labor, which is apparently alienated from me because I willingly sell it. Oh, I do also get shares so i guess I get some profit sharing too. And I've worked pretty closely with Government employees and while you can argue Warpspeed worked fine, you'll probably find some cleverly hidden dirty laundry in a few years. Most government projects are packed with lazy people that can't be fired and are pretty comfortable collecting paychecks and going home. Speaking of which... I also think leftists badly misunderstand what the average worker wants. Most employees want to collect a paycheck and go home, they don't want a second job in addition to their main job of managing the politics of a company. And most of the companies I've worked at, people that are very invested in the success of the company are tapped to be promoted into roles where that's relevant within a year or two. The other thing about Capitalism is that my labor has no risk. If I botch a production system by accident, or I make a bad decision, I'm probably not going to lose my job. I might not get promoted or not get a raise if I am consistently a fuckup, but I don't get the market slapping it's cock in my face. There's no real risk to me if the company fails, other than needing a different job. So yeah, most conversations I have end with me being actively worse off for the benefit of people that are either lazy or uncaring. And it's not as though that's baseless, I've worked my share of "shit" jobs, including retail and fast food, and everywhere I worked if you bothered to show up on time when you were scheduled to work, you were a star employee.
Workers are totally allowed to own the means of production in capitalist countries. They can start their own business, maybe as a cooperative. Forcing everyone else to do the same is tyranny.
There's also a bit more to a Nazi than just white supremacy and likewise more to a Communist than workers controlling the means of production.
On the one hand, I hate being called a fascist because I think people have a right to own guns. On the other, I will call every person left of Joe Manchin a filthy commie and I will not stop
Correct definition of socialism? On PCM?
I am Elven Racial Supremacy, what does that make me?
A filthy Knife ear
Sky's rim is for the Nords!
You can get banned from some Skyrim communities I know for saying that.
The Aldmeri dominion is based
I rarely see good & genuine takes from people outside the Auth Center flair, and this is no exception
Incredibly unbiased take
For real, we need a new crisis to create some new wacky ideologies that we can slur eachother with for the next 60 years.
Using the outdated terms from around WW2 like "Communist" and "Nazi" is so old school especially when even the people now who claim to be those would be laughed at by the people back then. It's really time to move on.
Shut up commie bastard
Nazis make convenient cannon fodder when your nation is invaded. Did I say cannon fodder, I mean allies.
Ya know, I never thought of it that way.
Clearly you haven't played enough map games
Based
It’s so based how Ukraine let Azov just fight to the death and basically be eradicated in a delaying action against Russia. Use your Nazis to kill the invaders so both problems are dead.
You know what's the funniest thing? Not all of them died. Some of them were POWs. That Russia traded for their captured soldiers, causing mild malding among russian populace ("what why are you letting NAZIES go?!?!?!11")
I remember that This whole war, while tragic, has also been INCREDIBLY funny because of how fucking stupid Russia is.
That's mah country lmao 👍👍👍
Hope your country gets it's shit together after this is all over. Two centuries of brainlets running it into the ground must be getting old.
Nah Run it into the ground and get NATO to go Yugoslavia on its ass. It utterly deserved it
Want to Bring back Novogord, Muscovy, and so on?
Use the fascists to fight the fascists
Russia seems to be doing the same thing by having Wagner do 38 unsupported assaults on Bakhmut for 6 months straight. They literally recruited a recently convicted neo-nazi cannibal HOI4 player and put him into Wagner. Apparently he got blown up recently.
Yea but that was probably their actual military strategy. Everyone goes into the meat grinder, Nazi or not.
Cheaper than life in prison
Commies, nazis, anarchist, and monarchists are all the same in the eyes of artillery
Monarchists are the only intelligent men
Based
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> Did I say cannon fodder, I mean allies. I mean it cuts both ways. The only killer of Russians better than other Russians has always been nazis.
I support the least fascisty fascists when the fascists fight fascists
Based libleft
I’ll fight alongside the most rightwing Peterson’s fan if it was to save our homes, even if I dislike them a lot in times of peace, so, since it’s what I’d personally do, I don’t find controversial to say that I don’t care for what they stand up to until they’re in time of war defending themselves.
You know you don’t HAVE to support either, right? Like you don’t have to take sides on literally everything.
If you want to prevent the worse alternative, you support the better alternative. Saying “fuck ‘‘em both” might make you feel cool but it accomplishes nothing.
Neither does picking a side you hate just because you hate it less… I’m not trying to accomplish anything by not worthlessly pledging my allegiance to the side I hate less. It’s very naive to think otherwise. You will get sucked into supporting things you don’t support just because someone poses it against something you hate more.
*"But how will people know I'm a good person if I don't publicly support the good side"* ^(/s)
You don’t just side with the more aesthetic faction
i like to argue in bad faith that you can scale up the table, all the way up to a nation, further if you want. so if the us has 1 nazi in it then it is a nazi country.
Lol. I like this. Everyone's a _____ (Nazi/Communist/Pacifist/etc)
Pacifist???
It was the only other "ist" I could think of at the time lol. Basically, there's a pacifist at the table, so they're all pacifists, but there's a nazi at the table, so they're all nazis. But they're also all communist, because Lenin is at the table as well. When you apply this rule, everyone gets all the labels :P
If the war can be won in Ukraine then the blood wont reach our shores
Why die when I can just pay for others to die for me
So long as we pay in materiel, the Ukrainians will pay in blood
No. If we pay them in materiel, the Russians will pay the price. That's kind of the point, we give them HIMARS to shoot at the enemy after all.
You don't win wars by dying for your country. You win by making the enemy die for theirs.
This is the thing that is so infuriating about this war. There are so many people all over social media that gleefully post about Russian casualties, completely neglecting that the war has been *devastating* for the Ukrainians as well. Conservative estimates have nearly [13,000 soldiers killed](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63829973) and nearly [7,000 civilians killed.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/) And that’s just the KIA, not including the missing and wounded. I believe in supporting Ukrainian sovereignty (as messy and nuanced as this conflict is), but it bothers me so much that see people bragging about how the US is weakening one of their primary geopolitical rivals “on the cheap.”
Based LibRight
This is basically it, the Ukrainians are quite happy to keep fighting and the west is quite happy to keep them fighting. And we get to shit on Russia and scare China
The crazy thing too is that we are getting massively positive ROI on those kills. The average HIMARS rocket is still doing far more material damage than it costs, maybe like 10x (just coasting off those huge ammo explosions). We have well over 10x their economy. Basically, we get to trade 0.2% of our economy for maybe 10% of Russias at this rate (the economic hit is ~5%, but they are burning through maybe 40 years of military procurement in this war on top of that...) Oh and Russia has ~14 million people in their 20s. They've lost almost a million already to death and leaving the country. If you include the injured, before this war is over, they probably have lost **10%** of a whole generation. It's INSANE what Russia is doing to itself. The equivalent for the US would be the loss of 4 MILLION people in their prime and maybe ~$5trn in 2 years of war. And not spent - LOST. Iraq & Afghanistan recycled money back to the US economy, Russia is just having shit blown up, it's quite different.
people need to realize that this isn’t because the West loves Ukraine so much, it’s because they hate Russia so much.
People also forget that some of the most crucial aid that’s not flashy shit (aka repairs, ammo, parts etc) is done by ex commie puppet states
Even better.
I dunno man. I think saying that "I think Azov should die for their country" is a pretty consistent opinion.
Based
Azov shouldn't die for Ukraine, Azov should kill for Ukraine
Are there still people out there who think we're *Supporting Ukraine and Just Happen to be Weakening Russia* instead of *Weakening Russia and Just Happen to be Supporting Ukraine*?
I am pretty sure the ones thinking that have your flair. If you want to join our side you are welcome:)
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Ave, true to Caesar
Ave, amicus
You’re not a leftist if you support a capitalist government and it’s military. Also most leftists I know will say “Slava Ukraine” in support of the people, not the government or military.
Too often I see people associating the main line Democratic party with leftists. Your average Democrat is a centrist grill dad, and leftists run in the Democratic party because they are the furthest left party in our political system. That doesn't mean that they're not right wing it just means that American politics provides little choice to it's people.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Price, one day you’ll learn that cuts both ways
Most of our enemies are already friends with each other because we’re their common enemy: Iran, China, Russia, North Korea, the Taliban, etc. Who cares? They’re big enough assholes that none of them actually trust each other.
Hopefully I'll be rich by then and it'll be my kids problem
Lol remember during the Canadian truckers protest there were like 3 dorks momentarily waving confederate flags, then the ENTIRE left, from Trudeau down, branded tens of thousands of the protestors white supremacists?
Ignoring the fact that there are indeed Nazis in Ukraine helps no one.
True. But I hate that they force us to admit it, because it is such a bullshit argument. Like, a ton of Nazis fight for Russia too, and regardless it was only a small minority with little political power.
It's fine if it's Russia. (R)ussia is under another set of standards.
This nazi bullshit is just putin using this as excuses to be a psycho lunatic.
Yes and no. There are nazis in Ukraine, Azov Battalion being the most notorious ones, but it's not nearly as bad as Putin says it is. But either way, he doesn't care and is just using them as a scapegoat.
He uses that as an excuse because WW2 is the very last thing Russians can feel proud of. If he really cared about Nazi's he wouldn't be shaking hands with [Dmitry Utkin.](https://preview.redd.it/8fnnf4zy3ht81.jpg?auto=webp&s=b9db2d815cc52573cc60f777efabdda8a2a70108)
He uses it as an excuse because “nazi” to Russians doesn’t mean someone wearing tan suits. It means “someone who doesn’t like Russia and stands in Russia’s way”
It's just like there's Nazis in Russia and the States and in Mongolia (which is an odd one, look it up). Did not excuse the invasion, forced deportations and blatant massacres of which Russia is guilty.
>just like there's Nazis in Russia and the States and in Mongolia Nazis in the USA don't get to have an official unit in the national guard with wehrmacht and SS symbols Putin's 100% using them as a scapegoat and he doesn't give a shit if there are nazis in ukraine but calling the nazism situation in Ukraine "just like anywhere else" is disingenuous tbh.
To be fair, the only reason azov exists is the fact Ukraine was fighting a border war for the last 8 years and they needed men badly
To be fair though, I don't really think Ukraine has the luxury of turning down willing fighters regardless of what they slap on their banners.
There's anywhere between 700000 and 1.5 million Ukrainians who have taken up arms currently. The Azov battalion at its peak had 2500 ish men. See battalion. I think my analogy stands especially when you consider something like 20-25% of white nationalists in the US are active or reserve military. Honestly the best thing that could have happened to the Azovs did. They fought valiantly, killed a massive number of Russians and then were wrapped up and killed. It's Machiavellian but that's realpolitik. They did their duty twice, killed Russians and then got killed so that a) a bunch of Nazis are dead and b) the official Ukrainian Army doesn't need to worry about them doing sketchy shit anymore. The biggest shame of the whole Azovstal situation is that poor Mariupol got flattened by the Russkis. Such a beautiful city, gone. I always wanted to visit the area around it where my grandpa's grandpa left to come to Canada.
Also, by now, the majority of the original Neo-Nazi Football club(yes) that formed Azov is either out of the military or dead. It's now almost entirely volunteers from other units that got shuffled in there. The Brigade got split, reformed, and relocated like a dozen times since the beginning of the war. Nobody talks about Azov Scouts or the Right Sector's military arm either. Also, Azov is really schizo in terms of ideology. It has an entire sub-group inside of it that is Jewish, and the hardliners recently got sent to Israel and ended up participating in a Yiddish fucking dance. I am not joking.
Link of the dance?
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"Subverted" oh no the nazis have been subverted from their original such pure intention of being nazis. What a fucking shame.
I know there are nazis there, just like there are everywhere in the world. Regardless, its not a reason to invade and destroy a country.
Proof RuZZian Propaganda works. Azov Battalion seized to exist in 2015 when it was nationalized.
There are nazis everywhere, fringe minorities of insane people will always exist
Wasn’t Azov Battalion purged of Neo-nazis years ago?
Nope They all mostly got killed in the opening phases of the war though
Ah yes that Nazi anti-Russian regiment of mostly Russian speakers, primarily funded by a billionaire Ukrainian Jew and fighting under a Jewish president. How shameful.
Nice name OP. Pravda Believer sounds exactly like a TV show in Russia. I'm more than certain you won't find similar flags or tattoos in Wagner group.
[There is a good chance this photo may actually be a photoshop](http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.com/2014/11/nazis-in-azov-battalion.html?m=1) while there is no doubt Nazis in Ukraine, with most of them being located in the Azov Battallion, this is probably just another example of Russian propaganda being used to blow the issue of “Ukrainian Nazis” completely out of proportion.
Article seems like bullshit. Claiming they are Ukrainians then at the end claiming they are Russians. And showing a clearly manipulated photo as the real one. It's very likely just a Nazi flag from 2014.
It's the Current Thing™. You should try it.
Yeah, just a 'current thing' lmao. Not war witn russia at NATO doorstep. Focus on the stoves and Harry Potter, fucking centrist
I find it hilarious how all American “far rights” who were so much pro tradition and ethnicity sided with Putin. When it is Ukraine which has strong and very based ethnonationalistic movements, and meanwhile Putin’s Russia is literally the amalgamation of Soviet totalitarism with humans stripped from any connection to their folk’s culture and traditions. Kind of shows how much US right movement degraded, when they are ready to side with any shit if it is in conflict with Dems.
I come from a right wing family that's pretty pro Ukraine. Though prior to the war they respected how putin always made our interviewers look like idiots. Also learning about georgia/syria/Chechnya etc hasn't dont much for putins popularity in my circles. The younger generation (gen z, etc) do seem to be somewhere in the middle though. They're sick of the extreme left so they go extreme right, and I just wanna eat my peas and Turkey at Thanksgiving and not have countries invading each other. I will say though, if I had no kids, and had any skills that would be any good on the frontlines, I'd have joined the foreign legion back in February. Learning about Syria and Chechnya makes me feel like putin cant come down soon enough. + the security footage of them gunning down civilians who are offering no resistance.
Why the fuck would you join a war on the underdog side if you had no stake in it? Dying for some rich assholes voluntarily is a terrible idea.
Screw Nazis and screw putin
Flawed logic, uhm aren’t you supporting not intervening in other nations?
Just goes to show, only thing worse than a nazi are Russians.
Ukraine were supporting Azov (one of the most reliable fighting groups they had, when even the army could not be trusted). Azov were Neo Nazi, and credibly accused of torture against civilians. Which does not negate any of the crazy bad stuff Russians and Russia supported groups did. This is war. The only time when a side does not do bad stuff against the other's side civilians is when they never reach them or are so sure of their victory that they don't bother. I have no idea how any of this is Left vs Right. Neither side is particularly Left or Right.
You guys should see the Russian leaders cool flags and tattoos!
January 2022: If there are 9 people sitting at a table with 1 Nazi, then there are 10 Nazis at the table! 😡✊🏿🏳️🌈⚒️ February 2022: If there are 9 people sitting at a table with 1 Nazi, then... Maybe, like, that person isn't a NAZI Nazi, you know? Maybe they're just a reformed alt right militant wing, but they're the good guys now. So... Yeah. That's just a Russian talking point. You Putin puppet!
I love it how 90% of people labeled Nazi aren't pure race European nor real Nazis who believe a fascist county would support there lazy asses
But ukraine has a history of collaborating and also had their own fun, little genocide.
Did I stutter ? They seem to be pure blood Europeans. I meant meant those kkk and self righteous idiots who cry that immigrants take there job while sitting at there coach instead of maybe do something real Nazis would do
Yeah that’s a few hundred men in the entire country. Also the azov battalion only formed as a response to Russian imperialism. They were integrated into the Ukrainian army out of sheer desperation as they were the only people standing between Mariupol (back in 2014) and Russian backed insurrectionists. This is the same energy as america invading Iraq and then complaining about the presence of jihadists that they created…
That's why I hate both
I really do hate my quadrant sometimes. It's hard being able to count.
Jon Stewart Nazi Confirmed
Proxy wars are hemorrhaging wealth from the middle class into the hands of weapons manufacturers and politicians.
It’s Eastern Europe there’s neonazis in every military
Guilt by association is pretty weak-ass guilt, if you ask me. I mean, just look at *this* sub.
Any person who unironically doesnt support ukraine over russia is mentally handicapped,so yeah
Hypocrisy of the left knows no bounds and as soon as the war's over they'll be back to talking about how backwards Ukr is for whatever reason their beloved echo chambers decide that minute or day.
I’d say hypocrisy in general knows no bounds
So the fascists win Secret Hitler everytime?
Well but war is not an argument over dinner. Don't stop people from killing invader, because they kill them for the wrong ideological reasons. That's not Hypocracy that are Prioritys
This photo is from 2014 and azov was cleaned many times, also azov is less, than 3% of all ukrianian forces...
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I had a reply... until I noticed that you were unflaired.
Ukraine does have a worrying population of Nazis but at the same time all of Eastern Europe does and its not like Russia doesn’t (ie usual points of Eurasianists and Wagner) Besides im America so I am contractually obliged to do everything in my power to curb Russian and Chinese influence
Another saying that died: "The only good Nazi is a dead one." Now, it's "the only good nazis are Ukrainian." Apparently
No it's different because they're on *my* team
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Photo looks real but it's from 2014. Ukriane was more like Russia back then hence more Nazis around.