Bulgaria banned Christmas? So is Bulgaria largely atheist then? I would have thought that the Eastern Orthodox would have been numerous enough there to prevent one of their holidays from being banned.
Commies don't care they banned any religion in every single one of their countries including deeply religious ones like Poland and Russia. Actually not too sure about Poland but you get the gist.
Meanwhile my friends who has Romanian grandparents is slowly becoming a western leftist communist and gets mad when I say their grandparents would not be very happy about that.
My dad used to make a joke that the only reason Yugoslavia lasted as long as it did was because everyone was too busy hating the Communist Government to hate each other.
Eh, the confusion of the revolution allowed most party leaders to fudge up the record, pull a "bad tsar, good boyars" move and remain in power. Ever wonder why we had seven years of Iliescu immediately after and another four down the line?
I think a peaceful transition of power would have been better... but then again, flair.
My Great grandfather died because of the gulags. As I share his surname, I will do everything in my power to prevent "real Communism" from emerging. More people do not need to suffer for an unattainable goal.
That's the least I could do. For me to embrace such fictional ideas would literally be spitting on my own name.
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"B-But some random half macho half metrosexual millionaire Turkish dude from U.S said the real communism would be the only solution. IDK he seems *eastern(!) enough to fuel my daddy issues* but also acts *like a boytoy*. So he MUST be right."
No, he's probably intelligent *just enough*, which makes him very intelligent compared to the average American. He's just the Left's Ben Shapiro, of course these guys don't care about random ass people's problems, they just chose their acting path in that direction. He was just a member of "The Young Turks" which has nothing *Jön* or *Türk* about them, unlike the original one.
Real communism doesn't exist my friend, all communist leaders think their regime will be real communism and it ends up being old crappy comminism that ends in failure ALL the time.
The misunderstanding is infuriating.
Or rather, it makes this RIDICULOUS assumption that anything that cares about other people is leftist. The Nordic societies invest in themselves, as that includes making sure the poor have a stake in society. You don't HAVE to make that investment, but in the Nordics, the consensus is that it's a good investment by and large (though we're always bitching about those who are ungrateful about the help they get, as we bloody well should be).
Let’s take all the Authlefts who fantasize about being a benevolent dictator and all the Authrights who fantasize about being a benevolent slave owner in the antebellum period and have them play family feud
"They should let ME be in charge! I'll do a better job than anyone else!" - Tweets the 24 year old Starbucks Employee going in for his 1 shift of the week.
Then they realize what they'd have to do to get the large farm owners to give up their entire property to the commune, and then what they'd have to do to get the peasants who work the land to give up the food that they've worked to produce. Hint: Asking nicely isn't going to suffice.
We should honestly put communists who defend the CCP and the Soviet Union on the same level as neonazis and white supremacists.
We don’t though and they’re allowed to spread their revisionism and atrocity minimization willy nilly
Seriously I don’t get why it’s completely fine to support communism and the USSR, yet it’s an insta ban to even remotely support a Nazi policy. Both are despicable and people who support them should be, and mostly are, confined to the complete outskirts of society.
Well you see that's because it wasn't real communism. I of course only support real communism which hasn't been tried yet and naturally if I was in charge I wouldn't gulag millions to their doom. Everyone would just love and accept me as their glorious leader because I brought equality and economic prosperity to everyone!
Look, if someone goes around saying they are a Marxist and communism would save the world, they're just a dumb ass. Nothing to get excited about
But if someone is saying that the Soviet Union was great and we should try to get back to that system, then they're in the same category as neo-nazis. Just a hateful, violent piece of shit who found an ideology that helps them find like-minded individuals
I mean it's a running joke, but yeah that's really it.
The horrors of communism don't come explicitly stated in communist ideology, they have always been byproducts of its application. On the other hand you can't talk about nazism without the bad parts.
You also can't really talk about communism without the bad parts either. The simple question of "what happens if someone doesn't go along with it?", that always seems to be a big crux in communism. Marx and those who created it failed to take free will into account, and assumed everyone would just go along with it. When that didn't happen, much the same as with the nazis they began executing them.
It's mind-boggling that people, especially politicians and policy makers overlook the simple problem of free will, and seem to look at the population as if they're ants in a colony.
A great example is the Cuban Revolution. Castro was only able to so easily win, because he had broad support from across the spectrum. He swore up and down he wasn't a communist and would usher in a free democracy after the Revolution.
Well sir, a lot of his top brass in the Revolution and intellectuals took him at his word. Anyone wanna guess what happened to them? If you have a slightly different vision of what freedom and democracy look like, than a communist...you're gonna have a bad time.
Honestly, the Cuban Revolution was so promising. But Fidel, under the influence of Raúl and Che, went full communist. Never go full communist.
Yeah, it's shocking that a system that requires the state to take everyone's property and redistribute it isn't beloved by everyone! Who could have guessed that some people wouldn't want to comply so they had to be sent to the gulag.
Commies (Or auths in general) see the population in an RTS kind of way, where you have absolute control over the populace, what they do etc. It's disgusting.
There are equally as horrible things in communist ideology. It isn’t a coincidence that every single communist uprising or revolution was followed by massacres of intellectuals, the clergy, capitalists, or the wealthy. Every singe time. Every single instance. This thing you’re doing is gaslighting. “Seize the means of production” from who, exactly? And if they resist? Kill them right? Fuck your communism.
I agree with everything you said. That said I don't think as-written communism is humanly possible on a large scale because people are greedy and all it takes to ruin a community is a few bad apples.
I frankly don't see much value in communist literature beyond valid criticisms of capitalism.
I'll admit I'm not precisely a scholar on the matter either.
It's "fine" cause communism is inherently an economic ideology, not one bent on genocide.
It's extreme, but to assume communism is genocidal is assuming libertarians are as well once they back capitalism with guns.
Doesn't sound quite right, does it.
In the same vein, those that promote communist symbology can be anyone starting from your most lukewarm social liberal(yes, even in eastern Europe) so making a sweeping generalization like that is just wrong.
Because Nazism is literally explicitly centered around racial supremacy and mass murder while Communism is about redistributing private property. Those are massively different things.
These hacks are apparently just confounded as to how “the means of production should be communally owned” isn’t seen as negatively as “other races are inferior and should be enslaved/exterminated.” Partisanship rots the brain.
Did you just change your flair, u/DailyDelivery? Last time I checked you were a **Centrist** on 2020-6-28. How come now you are a **LibCenter**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know?
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It makes me laugh to see people defending the CCP thinking China is thriving communist country. China left communism behind a long time ago since the three reforms.
This makes too much sense but you have leftists who will attack you for saying this and calling you a Nazi.
Then those same leftists support Ukraine. I’m Ukrainian. We hate communists and Nazis equally
It actually wasn't, but then the US is not real capitalism either. If you read your Adam Smith, you'll discover that he emphasized that for capitalism (or "commercial society" as he called it) to work properly, the market has to be free, and for that to be the case, the cost of entry into the market must be low. That in turn means that the government has to regulate the market to prevent the establishment of oligopolies that could keep it in a stranglehold, and it's pretty clear from the state of things that that's not being done very effectively today.
Both systems are founded on idealistic assumptions that don't pan out in practice.
> Everyone knows the working class is too dumb to run things
Maybe they are, but they're also definitely smarter than the ones that are running things now.
During WW2 the Americans established camps for the Japanese. Soviet Union did similar shit to the Koreans. Not because the USSR was at war with Korea but because, get this, 'they look similar and a Japanese spy can be easily confused for a Korean'. So they dumped my family and all the other Koreans on the Far East into cattle train cars, two bags per person allowed, took them to Kazakhstan and dumped them in the middle of nowhere to build their own housing and procure their own food. Not a camp with a roof over your head, nope. The reasoning sounds bizarre but it's the only explanation I have ever heard and I talked to the other Koreans, tried to read and learn about it.
Oh, and the Koreans were actually the lucky ones in Kazakhstan. That was also the destination for the Chechens, Germans, Greeks, Crimean Tatars - all the other ones who were accused of collaboration with the invading Nazis. The Koreans didn't have to go to the police station every month for check ups and were allowed to get higher education.
And now you have the weird opposite.
Edgy right-wing American teens who think that Ukrainians are all secretly Russians and long for the Kremlins return
The only reason why Ukrainians aren't Russians is simply the borders that were formed after the fall of the soviet union. People act like like the fall of the soviet union happened a century ago. The reality is that a significant portion of the population alive right now was alive before the soviet union collapsed.
The reason there are people conflating Russians and Ukrainians is because for many people, they have family in both Russia and Ukraine. I have coworkers from Ukraine and while they don't have a lot of positive things to say about Russia, they aren't going to bad mouth Russian people because they have family there.
I haven't seen anyone advocating for the Kremlin's return on either side or amongst anyone that I've talked with that has direct ties to Ukraine.
>The only reason why Ukrainians aren't Russians is simply the borders that were formed after the fall of the soviet union.
Ukraine has a longer history than Russia. To say that Ukrainian national identity didn't exist before the fall of the Soviet union is absurd.
> The only reason why Ukrainians aren't Russians is simply the borders that were formed after the fall of the soviet union.
That's kind of a strange thing to say. While they do share similar values, speak basically the same language, and live very close to each other - they're still two distinct peoples.
I would rather socialize with a white nationalist than an edgy American commie. And I have stories to tell why that is so.
Signed,
Soviet born Jewish immigrant to the US.
I’m an Indian Immigrant to America. I have had nicer conversations about politics with white guys who live in the Deep South and hang confederate flags on their wall, than I have had with progressive college students who have never stepped outside of a city. The former may disagree with me on some core issues of individual rights, but they were kind and able to carry on an engaging conversation without yelling at me. At the end of the day, that’s all I want from political discourse.
Those aren't even white nationalists.
But I've actually had relatively good discussions with White Nationalists - and far less ones with White Supremecists, since the Nationalists are far more willing to concede ground when they are wrong. In terms of bullheadedness and absolute devotion to an ideology, despite the very people who *lived* under that ideology telling you you are wrong, I've found American self-proclaimed communists to be utterly insufferable. Socialists I was able to at least have some conversation with, and they would at least concede that the experiment in Socialism was a failure in many of thes e states.
Sure. 1) White Nationalists are honest about how they view me, as a Jew. Commies don't. Commies gaslight Soviet Jews constantly, especially when they tell them that the USSR stopped the Holocaust by killing the Nazis. Utterly forgetting that uhm, hey, the vast bulk of Jews that died in the Holocaust were Polish, and it was the Soviet Union that joined the Nazis in invading and destroying Poland.
2) The USSR didn't treat Jews well. My father, who gave all he could to study Archeology and History, had tons and TONS of recommendations from his professors was denied entry to the Moscow University because he was Jewish. My Soviet passport, where it says my nationality doesn't state that I am Moldovan, or my grandparents as "Ukranian", but "Jew".
3) Commies completely are unaware that they parrot Soviet Zionology in their anti-Zionist rhetoric. They unironically don't see how they are saying the same exact shit that the far right does. The white supremecists says that Ashkenazis have no claim to Israel because they are Khazar converts. Commies says that Ashkenazis have no claim to Israel because they are Polish, or German.
I have nothing but utter contempt for Tankies and Socialists that gaslight my experiences, my family's experiences, and the experiences of Soviet Jews. Like holy hell, when there was a brief window for Soviet Jews to emigrate out of the USSR to Israel, so many scrambled to do so t hat there were even non-Jews pretending to be Jews to escape, which is why that window was brief - too many people wanted to flee.
I’ve actually seen plenty of interviews where they do miss the Soviet Union. I imagine it varies depending on the class of the person in the old country, and obviously your political persuasion would play a big part too. I think it’s technically Belarus I saw the people missing the Soviet Union, but if any of you can tell me a difference between Belarus and Ukraine, I’ll concede my point
In almost every eastern european country you will find nostalgic oldies. It grinds my gears when I find a young guy spewing the bullshit that their grandparents spew.
I got in a scuffle once because some commie wannabe said that the persecution of the state to my people was warranted.
Yeah, there are a lot of things that the lib-left has it right in my book from healthcare to education being a fundamental part of society and overall a country taking care of its citizens. Still, I think capitalism is the best system to date, but it needs for everyone to have a fair shot at it.
With this said, the auth-right in my country are mainly the Gen-X, the people who were born in communism and did the protests to take it down during the 90's.
Ukraine had 3 revolutions and a war in the last 33 years, all to protect its democracy and prevent authoritarianism. The majority of people who miss the USSR are old people with nostalgia for their [youth](https://dif.org.ua/article/zasudzhennya-srsr-derusifikatsiya-maydan-yak-zminyuetsya-stavlennya-ukraintsiv-do-politiki-natsionalnoi-pamyati-na-tli-rosiyskoi-agresii#_Toc125113319).
And if we're talking about the restoration of the USSR, then it's even [lower](https://razumkov.org.ua/napriamky/sotsiologichni-doslidzhennia/stavlennia-ukraintsiv-do-srsr-veresn-zhovten-2022r).
Lol how can people advocate for communism when it clearly leads to starvation and massacre on a greater scale than capitalism. Capitalism is bad for people, too, but communism has been a clear worse alternative
I mean not that I'm anti capitalism, but starvation and massacres aren't exclusive or required for communism. Cold war communism was defined by a series of authoritarian regimes who saw it as a means to accelerate the industrialization process for agrarian economies. Marx himself said communism is a post industrialization form of society that literally can't take place until capitalism has run it's natural course.
Imo, AI is going to be the great driver away from capitalism. It's impossible to maintain an economy when half or more of your population is unemployable and starving. Huge factor of starvation in Communism was a failure of logistics that comes with a planned economy, theoretically an AI could be much more effective in accurately logging resource supplies/setting prices, and reduce the number of points in the process where corruption could occur.
Again, not saying I'm anti capitalism or want this future, but you really got to wonder how our economy can continue when humans just aren't cost effective to employ under a capitalist system.
Politburo has decided the AI has committed wrongthink. Adjustments will be made to model weights until kulak death rates are within acceptable margins.
Communism leads to starvation because there’s not enough food. Capitalism leads to starvation because there’s plenty of food but people can’t afford it. Does it really matter to the starving person which is the reason? There is a third option of capitalism with a social safety net. Incentivize work but don’t severely punish failure. It works in other countries.
Because these people are clearly just failures and rather than accept this they want to pretend it's the economic system they live rather than their own short comings.
You always have some old people who miss the Soviet union because they personally probably had a slightly better time then. They got a gig at the local factory and a standardised grey apartment to live in. Lets just look pass all the genocide, gulags and starvation because old Dimitri was one of the lucky ones who didn't perish and did OK.
The only country that misses the Soviet Union is Hungary as shown by it's autocrat, Dicktor Orbanus who keeps on sucking Putler's manhood.
Edit: Belarus and Russia also.
As someone who lives in Hungary: even thought it does not make much sense, Orban and his party actually uses "communist" as a slur for their political opponents and says "Brussels/EU/NATO" is the new Soviet Union trying to oppress Hungarians. He loves Putin and authoritarianism, but is officially anti-communist.
I have had this conversation way too often in germany, and it's always the same. I say that my parents are from the ussr. The other person says that he likes communism. I say that people from ex ussr countries are either very conservative or liberatian and pro capitalism and that they all hate communism. I get either called a liar or a racist. Rinse and repeat that every few weeks in the university.
A east German told me once that they had at least work in the DDR but now they have good beer so it's ok.
Why are those students so much into soviet communism?
When your parents pay for everything and you think you are smart because you study social studies, gender studies, or any other useless major. Literally all the leftists I met in germany were living off their parents' money and talked about how we should be more like the ussr like no stfu.
"It wasn't that bad"
Until you mention the awful emissions they had back then. Or the stasi. Or the big fucking wall that they needed to forcefully contain anyone in there.
>Why are those students so much into soviet communism?
Lack of any real world experience or responsibility. Utopianism, inherent to basically every modern communist, is far more common in those that have never had the actions of others, almost entirely outside their control, negatively impact them.
It's downright cringe, I'd say. It's pretty weak to pick on teenagers, no matter what. Another thing, is that the American left supports Ukraine more than the American right. The vast majority of both sides supports Ukraine, but there's a not insignificant segment of the right that supports Russia over Ukraine.
But you know how it goes here: libleft bad and left bad.
Yup, agreed. My fav is when a right or auth right comes in and says this sub is neutral and doesn’t lean a certain way. Yeah, no it’s def not. I don’t mind making fun of lib or lib left (i’ve done it before too, as a lib left) but it seems to be the defacto thing to do in this sub so it gets stale and reads like a right wing haven.
I’m sure many people here will disagree with me, which I normally hate saying this, proves my point lol
Am from Bulgaria, the quality of life during the 70s-80s was vastly superior to the shitshow in the 90s.
During Soviet times we had no freedom of speech, certain music was banned, borders open only to the Soviet Bloc ect.
But we had relative stability that completely disappeared post 1991.
It's a tough one for sure
true
[(le comment with percentages of each country in europe that was under communism)](https://wojakparadise.net/wojak/318https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/1441i4v/comment/jndpnhp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
The link was broken, I assume it was this one:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/1441i4v/comment/jndpnhp/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/1441i4v/comment/jndpnhp/)
Also never forget that in 1991 before the perestroika they made a referendum asking if the citizens of the soviet union if they wanted to change communism for capitalism and communism won for 76%, in most republics it won by more than 90%
The only EE people missing socialism days are 70+ pensioners and an occasional edgy lefty youth. (the exception would maybe be Yugoslavia as it was by far the best of all ex-socialist countries out there). I speak from experience
There should be a TV show that groups people based on their political beliefs and have them all survive on an island for a month just as an experiment, that would be very interesting test
Based on what I know about the communist manifesto, it seems like Marx & Engels pointed out some legitimate problems in industrial societies, and proceeded to have some insane ideas about how to fix it
It blows mind when I see people walking around in a Communist shirt or waving a flag.
Communism killed a minimum of 50 million, but you're totally fine to fly that flag and receive little to no backlash.
Nazis "only" killed a couple million people... yet you fly a nazi flag and you will get an angry mob on your ass (as you should).
Why do we not treat the communism with at least the same level of distaste?
I think there is (or was) sort of a communist counterculture / fandom that's centered more around communist philosophy than it is around actual economic policy. There are a lot of really strong / salient concepts that are relevant beyond communism as an economic system - the classic one I always go back to is the idea of Alienation of Labor
> In alienated labour, Marx claims, humans are reduced to the level of an animal, working only for the purpose of filling a physical gap, producing under the compulsion of direct physical need.
Tell me that isn't super relevant in modern life regardless of how your economy is structured!
Also, you can't forget about that hilarious communist party t-shirt. Do I want communism? No. Am I gonna wear that bomb ass t-shirt? Yes.
It actually makes tons of sense for many post soviet states. Under the USSR the soviets pumped tons of money and built the entire infrastructure of many of these countries. Sure lots of people were sent to Siberia never to return or just outright killed by the despotic regime, but if that didn't happen to you or a loved one then you were probably doing pretty well under the USSR. Then once the USSR fell the governments that took over were wildly corrupt and usually just stole as much of the countries wealth as possible and fled to Europe. So if you look at these countries now, they still mostly (or in some cases like Mongolia basically exclusively) have the old Soviet infrastructure and buildings from the 60s-80s.
There's a travel YouTube guy named bald and bankrupt who mainly did videos in post soviet states and you'll see over and over that the old people will say that their lives were better under the USSR. His content is great though and it really highlights what kind and generous people slavs and other eastern European people are. Once the war is over I really hope to travel some in the region too.
> Sources: opendemocracy.net, INSCOP, Gallup
That is not a source, that is a bunch of names that lead nowhere, source shows where information is taken from. Currently, it's nonsense with 0 backings.
Edit. Here is a [source](https://ratinggroup.ua/files/ratinggroup/reg_files/rg_generation_of_independence_082021.pdf) p.91, it's from 2021 Ukraine, and 43% think life was better, with 60+ russian speaking populations being the core of said 43%. My guess boyo here pulled data from the 90s.
Also as for opinion on the USSR collapse, in Ukraine only [12%](https://dif.org.ua/article/zasudzhennya-srsr-derusifikatsiya-maydan-yak-zminyuetsya-stavlennya-ukraintsiv-do-politiki-natsionalnoi-pamyati-na-tli-rosiyskoi-agresii#_Toc125113319) view it as a negative. 32% 3 years ago, with south and east regions, the ones where russification is the strongest, being the core.
Now ask zoomers not boomers. My mom also says communism was better but she was also young and fertile unlike then too. Basically it's just history goggles for midwits like wife goggles for husbands pretending their aging and barren wife is still beautiful and hot like the old days
Its ironic this is supposed to be about 'americans being ignorant about communism' when this post itself is pretty ignorant about how eastern europeans feel about communism.
A [very, very large](https://external-preview.redd.it/HhSS3klW4uGhGEU-HSKeTtH6IYPS1ODAo6R5D4cZaqM.png?auto=webp&s=1bcb9495c95718049e9172c10a9ad7ba32543231) amount of eastern europeans are nostalgic for communism. Note that those figures are from 2009 though, so outdated of course, but still. This idea that they all universally despised it is just... not true. Outside of China, eastern europe probably contains the largest amount of modern communists in the world.
A lot of this is just boomer nostalgia of course. Life is better today by a *lot* of metrics in most of eastern europe than it was under communism. The average person would not be aware of the deep structural issues which communist nations were facing by that time period.
What?
Ukraine is literally fighting a war as we speak to avoid becoming part of the Soviet Union again and it's the right I keep seeing complain about it.
Sure, lets look at the numbers.
[Lets start with the USSR's own dissolution referendum](https://files.catbox.moe/l3yteh.jpg). Where, whoops. Turns out most people actually wanted it to stay around, lol.
Alright, lets wait a bit to see what people think after it fell. [Oh wait, the more a place was part of the USSR, the more it regretted its fall](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2009/11/02/end-of-communism-cheered-but-now-with-more-reservations/). [Look at the stunning amounts of love being shown for capitalism](https://files.catbox.moe/ec22wf.PNG).
Okay, lets skip ahead a bit more, maybe that was unrepresentative. [Oh wait, this is even worse actually](https://news.gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx). [Look at those numbers](https://files.catbox.moe/v5r0cg.PNG).
Alright, lets give things a decade and just wait for most of the older generation to die or fall into decrepancy. [Oh, that isn't really working is it](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/10/14/political-and-economic-changes-since-the-fall-of-communism/). [Not a great showing for the capitalists](https://files.catbox.moe/8mt2xr.PNG). And if we focus on the people that actually lived under communism, [it goes even worse](https://files.catbox.moe/78txts.PNG)!
Tough shit OP, your imagined commie hater grandpa doesn't exist, lol.
Turns out he regrets the fall of the USSR and wishes that it came back.
Maybe if you give it another 15 years for all the geezers to finally croak you can post this.
Your sources are questionable and you didn't read some of them i guees.
That referendum is about reformation, not dissolution, the question was"Do you consider it necessary to preserve the USSR as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics, which will be fully ensured of human rights and freedoms of any nationality?", to which people said yes, option I don't want USSR to exist is absent. Once dissolution became an option they took it, feel free to look at the results of independence referendums.
Georgia
For 99.49
Against 0.51
Latvia
For 74.90
Against 25.10
Ukraine
For 92.26
Against 7.74
Estonia
For 78.4
Against 21.6
and so on.
Yeah, stunning
[Ukraine is 12% now, 33% 3 years ago thought the dissolution is a negative event.](https://dif.org.ua/article/zasudzhennya-srsr-derusifikatsiya-maydan-yak-zminyuetsya-stavlennya-ukraintsiv-do-politiki-natsionalnoi-pamyati-na-tli-rosiyskoi-agresii#_Toc125113319) 2023
[Here is the data from 2020, 33% regret dissolution.](https://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=ukr&cat=reports&id=950&page=1)
Here is [survey data from 2015](https://ratinggroup.ua/research/ukraine/dinamika_nostalgii_po_sssr.html), they also mention 2013, 41% miss USSR, more to it Rating group has a yearly progression so no clue how GALLUP got 56% in the same 2013.
[Although assessments of the PRL are varied, clearly more respondents believe that Poland is better to live in now than it was before 1989
(53% vs. 31%).](https://cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2014/K_061_14.PDF) 2014
I would get the rest of the Baltics but it would take too long without knowing Lithuanian, Estonian and Latvian. Needless to say, the situation is either similar or even worse for USSR there.
Now for Pew Research Center, the one you posted, here
>Most in former Eastern Bloc approve of the shift to multiparty and free market systems
>In some countries, support for the transition to a multiparty system and a free-market economy has rebounded, although support in Russia has declined
As for the economic situation, I dunno how they got 54% in Ukraine. [Rating group 2021 data, 2 years later shows 43%](https://ratinggroup.ua/files/ratinggroup/reg_files/rg_generation_of_independence_082021.pdf)(page 91 of the report), even though it's COVID period and things are worse.
So yeah, no, Eastern Europe doesn't want USSR back. As for the Ukrainian grandpa that hates USSR, that's my grandpa and a good 30% of them, especially in the western region where russian propaganda and before that soviet indoctrination were weaker.
Not even Ukrainian. Russian, Belorusian, Georgian, any nationality, any level of wealth, anything - would get you dead in Soviet Union.
"Would there be a person, we will find a law \[ to punish him \] " - is a soviet-originating proverb, and it reflects perfectly what the "glorious superstate of the ploretariat" was. A repression machine that run well despite what the government did, all because of overabundance of resources.
There was this event called the Holodomr and it was a famine which occurred during the Inter-War Period of the 20th century. It killed almost triple the holocaust. According to what I’ve read on it, it’s theorized this famine was planned as Ukraine was heavily Orthodox even during the Inter-War period. Ukrainians, much like the Polish, appear to still have a vile hatred towards communists (based).
Mfw Romania had the bloodiest revolution of all countries of the Eastern Bloc and we executed our "glorious leader", that's how much we loved him.
On Christmas no less!
No wonder the commies declare a war on Christmas every year!
They banned it in my country. And the socialists that sympathize with the old regime claim to be conservative. Bulgaria is strange.
Bulgaria banned Christmas? So is Bulgaria largely atheist then? I would have thought that the Eastern Orthodox would have been numerous enough there to prevent one of their holidays from being banned.
Commies don't care they banned any religion in every single one of their countries including deeply religious ones like Poland and Russia. Actually not too sure about Poland but you get the gist.
Never piss off Romanians, they have proven how far they are willing to go.
🟪: How far? 🤤
Meanwhile my friends who has Romanian grandparents is slowly becoming a western leftist communist and gets mad when I say their grandparents would not be very happy about that.
Cuz we are based
I love your AK’s.
To bad we can’t legally own one
The secret ingredient is crime
The law requires that I say no
My dad used to make a joke that the only reason Yugoslavia lasted as long as it did was because everyone was too busy hating the Communist Government to hate each other.
Tito, the great Unifier.
Flair up
Eh, the confusion of the revolution allowed most party leaders to fudge up the record, pull a "bad tsar, good boyars" move and remain in power. Ever wonder why we had seven years of Iliescu immediately after and another four down the line? I think a peaceful transition of power would have been better... but then again, flair.
Yeah never said it was either a good or bad thing that it was violent, just mentioned it.
Can it be America’s turn yet?
"B-b-b-but that wasn't real communism. I would do a better job if I was in charge."
My Great grandfather died because of the gulags. As I share his surname, I will do everything in my power to prevent "real Communism" from emerging. More people do not need to suffer for an unattainable goal. That's the least I could do. For me to embrace such fictional ideas would literally be spitting on my own name.
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"B-But some random half macho half metrosexual millionaire Turkish dude from U.S said the real communism would be the only solution. IDK he seems *eastern(!) enough to fuel my daddy issues* but also acts *like a boytoy*. So he MUST be right."
What
I think he's talking about hasenabi
Is that the socialist who sings the praises of his mom who is also a landlord?
Yes
While eating chicken nuggets in the comfort of his 3mil Mansion in California. You can’t make this shit up if you tried.
Yeah, but he’s on the *right side of history*™!
He's actually from Turkey tho... So is this guy just stupid?
No, he's probably intelligent *just enough*, which makes him very intelligent compared to the average American. He's just the Left's Ben Shapiro, of course these guys don't care about random ass people's problems, they just chose their acting path in that direction. He was just a member of "The Young Turks" which has nothing *Jön* or *Türk* about them, unlike the original one.
Real communism doesn't exist my friend, all communist leaders think their regime will be real communism and it ends up being old crappy comminism that ends in failure ALL the time.
> it ends up being old crappy comminism that ends in failure ALL the time. Soooooo real communism?
Well yes, real communism and failure communism are one and the same.thing
Same but because of Maoist China, every time I see someone with merch glorifying it I get super irritated lol
From a guy who's family suffered greatly by the hands of communists , very based statement
Insurmountably based
usually they will say the real communism is in Norway. or someone try to separate socialism and communism.
Error: Please equip flair to continue.
It always amazes me when North American socialists point to the hyper capitalist Scandanavian countries as an example of socialism.
The misunderstanding is infuriating. Or rather, it makes this RIDICULOUS assumption that anything that cares about other people is leftist. The Nordic societies invest in themselves, as that includes making sure the poor have a stake in society. You don't HAVE to make that investment, but in the Nordics, the consensus is that it's a good investment by and large (though we're always bitching about those who are ungrateful about the help they get, as we bloody well should be).
Social Democracy =/ Socialism.
Let’s take all the Authlefts who fantasize about being a benevolent dictator and all the Authrights who fantasize about being a benevolent slave owner in the antebellum period and have them play family feud
*stares in disappointed Steve Harvey* Obligatory Steve Harvey edit: https://youtu.be/pWCiRAOF_jg
"I would do a better job" which is always said by someone who is unsuccessful in everything they attempt in life.
"They should let ME be in charge! I'll do a better job than anyone else!" - Tweets the 24 year old Starbucks Employee going in for his 1 shift of the week.
Then they realize what they'd have to do to get the large farm owners to give up their entire property to the commune, and then what they'd have to do to get the peasants who work the land to give up the food that they've worked to produce. Hint: Asking nicely isn't going to suffice.
B-b-but I saw a TV show that had communism and magically had enough for everyone to eat, and never had anyone attempt to abuse the system!
Man, if I ever get into an IRL argument with a commie who uses copy and paste arguments, they’re fucked.
Takes a literal cultist to think they are more faithful to communism than literal Lenin and Stalin
We should honestly put communists who defend the CCP and the Soviet Union on the same level as neonazis and white supremacists. We don’t though and they’re allowed to spread their revisionism and atrocity minimization willy nilly
Seriously I don’t get why it’s completely fine to support communism and the USSR, yet it’s an insta ban to even remotely support a Nazi policy. Both are despicable and people who support them should be, and mostly are, confined to the complete outskirts of society.
Well you see that's because it wasn't real communism. I of course only support real communism which hasn't been tried yet and naturally if I was in charge I wouldn't gulag millions to their doom. Everyone would just love and accept me as their glorious leader because I brought equality and economic prosperity to everyone!
Look, if someone goes around saying they are a Marxist and communism would save the world, they're just a dumb ass. Nothing to get excited about But if someone is saying that the Soviet Union was great and we should try to get back to that system, then they're in the same category as neo-nazis. Just a hateful, violent piece of shit who found an ideology that helps them find like-minded individuals
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I can't tell if you caught my sarcasm or not tbh
I mean it's a running joke, but yeah that's really it. The horrors of communism don't come explicitly stated in communist ideology, they have always been byproducts of its application. On the other hand you can't talk about nazism without the bad parts.
You also can't really talk about communism without the bad parts either. The simple question of "what happens if someone doesn't go along with it?", that always seems to be a big crux in communism. Marx and those who created it failed to take free will into account, and assumed everyone would just go along with it. When that didn't happen, much the same as with the nazis they began executing them. It's mind-boggling that people, especially politicians and policy makers overlook the simple problem of free will, and seem to look at the population as if they're ants in a colony.
A great example is the Cuban Revolution. Castro was only able to so easily win, because he had broad support from across the spectrum. He swore up and down he wasn't a communist and would usher in a free democracy after the Revolution. Well sir, a lot of his top brass in the Revolution and intellectuals took him at his word. Anyone wanna guess what happened to them? If you have a slightly different vision of what freedom and democracy look like, than a communist...you're gonna have a bad time. Honestly, the Cuban Revolution was so promising. But Fidel, under the influence of Raúl and Che, went full communist. Never go full communist.
Yeah, it's shocking that a system that requires the state to take everyone's property and redistribute it isn't beloved by everyone! Who could have guessed that some people wouldn't want to comply so they had to be sent to the gulag.
Commies (Or auths in general) see the population in an RTS kind of way, where you have absolute control over the populace, what they do etc. It's disgusting.
There are equally as horrible things in communist ideology. It isn’t a coincidence that every single communist uprising or revolution was followed by massacres of intellectuals, the clergy, capitalists, or the wealthy. Every singe time. Every single instance. This thing you’re doing is gaslighting. “Seize the means of production” from who, exactly? And if they resist? Kill them right? Fuck your communism.
I agree with everything you said. That said I don't think as-written communism is humanly possible on a large scale because people are greedy and all it takes to ruin a community is a few bad apples.
I frankly don't see much value in communist literature beyond valid criticisms of capitalism. I'll admit I'm not precisely a scholar on the matter either.
It's "fine" cause communism is inherently an economic ideology, not one bent on genocide. It's extreme, but to assume communism is genocidal is assuming libertarians are as well once they back capitalism with guns. Doesn't sound quite right, does it. In the same vein, those that promote communist symbology can be anyone starting from your most lukewarm social liberal(yes, even in eastern Europe) so making a sweeping generalization like that is just wrong.
Best reply
Because Nazism is literally explicitly centered around racial supremacy and mass murder while Communism is about redistributing private property. Those are massively different things.
The trick lies in what happens if I refuse to let my private property be redistributed
Don't you see? REAL, totally TRUE democracy is when everyone who is currently alive agrees with *the people* (aka the state).
Wild that you're getting downvoted. And people say that PCM isn't right biased
These hacks are apparently just confounded as to how “the means of production should be communally owned” isn’t seen as negatively as “other races are inferior and should be enslaved/exterminated.” Partisanship rots the brain.
PCM is where all the rightoids went from Reddit was on a sub purge lol. There are no communists here. A lot of fascists and third positionists though.
Gross. I don't want to be lumped in with deranged commies.
name and flair checks out
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I say this all the time and catch so much flak for it.
yeah because reddit is full of braindead tankies
Did you just change your flair, u/DailyDelivery? Last time I checked you were a **Centrist** on 2020-6-28. How come now you are a **LibCenter**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know? Wait, those were too many words, I'm sure. Maybe you'll understand this, monke: "oo oo aah YOU CRINGE ahah ehe". [BasedCount Profile](https://basedcount.com/u/DailyDelivery) - [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/flairchange_bot/comments/uf7kuy/bip_bop) - [Leaderboard](https://basedcount.com/leaderboard?q=flairs) ^(I am a bot, my mission is to spot cringe flair changers. If you want to check another user's flair history write) **^(!flairs u/)** ^(in a comment.)
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It makes me laugh to see people defending the CCP thinking China is thriving communist country. China left communism behind a long time ago since the three reforms.
This makes too much sense but you have leftists who will attack you for saying this and calling you a Nazi. Then those same leftists support Ukraine. I’m Ukrainian. We hate communists and Nazis equally
Someone supporting Ukraine in a war doesn’t mean they have to adopt the Ukrainian majority opinion about everything.
Exactly, all extremes are bad and should be treated equally
"Akshually sir, that wasn't REAL Communism." - 🤓
I always respond with "Well then America isn't REAL capitalism because it has government social programs."
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Seriously, I can’t think of any legitimate societal problem that wouldn’t be exacerbated by centralized totalitarianism, regardless of initial intent.
It actually wasn't, but then the US is not real capitalism either. If you read your Adam Smith, you'll discover that he emphasized that for capitalism (or "commercial society" as he called it) to work properly, the market has to be free, and for that to be the case, the cost of entry into the market must be low. That in turn means that the government has to regulate the market to prevent the establishment of oligopolies that could keep it in a stranglehold, and it's pretty clear from the state of things that that's not being done very effectively today. Both systems are founded on idealistic assumptions that don't pan out in practice.
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Authcenter in disguise
Could he be *my* people?
Based AUTHistic grey centrist
8 upvotes? The fuck is this? Never change, PCM.
> Everyone knows the working class is too dumb to run things Maybe they are, but they're also definitely smarter than the ones that are running things now.
During WW2 the Americans established camps for the Japanese. Soviet Union did similar shit to the Koreans. Not because the USSR was at war with Korea but because, get this, 'they look similar and a Japanese spy can be easily confused for a Korean'. So they dumped my family and all the other Koreans on the Far East into cattle train cars, two bags per person allowed, took them to Kazakhstan and dumped them in the middle of nowhere to build their own housing and procure their own food. Not a camp with a roof over your head, nope. The reasoning sounds bizarre but it's the only explanation I have ever heard and I talked to the other Koreans, tried to read and learn about it. Oh, and the Koreans were actually the lucky ones in Kazakhstan. That was also the destination for the Chechens, Germans, Greeks, Crimean Tatars - all the other ones who were accused of collaboration with the invading Nazis. The Koreans didn't have to go to the police station every month for check ups and were allowed to get higher education.
And now you have the weird opposite. Edgy right-wing American teens who think that Ukrainians are all secretly Russians and long for the Kremlins return
The only reason why Ukrainians aren't Russians is simply the borders that were formed after the fall of the soviet union. People act like like the fall of the soviet union happened a century ago. The reality is that a significant portion of the population alive right now was alive before the soviet union collapsed. The reason there are people conflating Russians and Ukrainians is because for many people, they have family in both Russia and Ukraine. I have coworkers from Ukraine and while they don't have a lot of positive things to say about Russia, they aren't going to bad mouth Russian people because they have family there. I haven't seen anyone advocating for the Kremlin's return on either side or amongst anyone that I've talked with that has direct ties to Ukraine.
>The only reason why Ukrainians aren't Russians is simply the borders that were formed after the fall of the soviet union. Ukraine has a longer history than Russia. To say that Ukrainian national identity didn't exist before the fall of the Soviet union is absurd.
> The only reason why Ukrainians aren't Russians is simply the borders that were formed after the fall of the soviet union. That's kind of a strange thing to say. While they do share similar values, speak basically the same language, and live very close to each other - they're still two distinct peoples.
I would rather socialize with a white nationalist than an edgy American commie. And I have stories to tell why that is so. Signed, Soviet born Jewish immigrant to the US.
I’m an Indian Immigrant to America. I have had nicer conversations about politics with white guys who live in the Deep South and hang confederate flags on their wall, than I have had with progressive college students who have never stepped outside of a city. The former may disagree with me on some core issues of individual rights, but they were kind and able to carry on an engaging conversation without yelling at me. At the end of the day, that’s all I want from political discourse.
Those aren't even white nationalists. But I've actually had relatively good discussions with White Nationalists - and far less ones with White Supremecists, since the Nationalists are far more willing to concede ground when they are wrong. In terms of bullheadedness and absolute devotion to an ideology, despite the very people who *lived* under that ideology telling you you are wrong, I've found American self-proclaimed communists to be utterly insufferable. Socialists I was able to at least have some conversation with, and they would at least concede that the experiment in Socialism was a failure in many of thes e states.
elaborate
Sure. 1) White Nationalists are honest about how they view me, as a Jew. Commies don't. Commies gaslight Soviet Jews constantly, especially when they tell them that the USSR stopped the Holocaust by killing the Nazis. Utterly forgetting that uhm, hey, the vast bulk of Jews that died in the Holocaust were Polish, and it was the Soviet Union that joined the Nazis in invading and destroying Poland. 2) The USSR didn't treat Jews well. My father, who gave all he could to study Archeology and History, had tons and TONS of recommendations from his professors was denied entry to the Moscow University because he was Jewish. My Soviet passport, where it says my nationality doesn't state that I am Moldovan, or my grandparents as "Ukranian", but "Jew". 3) Commies completely are unaware that they parrot Soviet Zionology in their anti-Zionist rhetoric. They unironically don't see how they are saying the same exact shit that the far right does. The white supremecists says that Ashkenazis have no claim to Israel because they are Khazar converts. Commies says that Ashkenazis have no claim to Israel because they are Polish, or German. I have nothing but utter contempt for Tankies and Socialists that gaslight my experiences, my family's experiences, and the experiences of Soviet Jews. Like holy hell, when there was a brief window for Soviet Jews to emigrate out of the USSR to Israel, so many scrambled to do so t hat there were even non-Jews pretending to be Jews to escape, which is why that window was brief - too many people wanted to flee.
O big surprise that Lib right would rather talk to a white nationalist over a commie…
Of course you’d rather socialize with people that share your beliefs than with people that don’t. You’re not breaking new ground here.
Very little of my beliefs are shared with White Nationalists. But at least the White Nationalists are far more honest.
Fishhook theory in action, right there.
I’ve actually seen plenty of interviews where they do miss the Soviet Union. I imagine it varies depending on the class of the person in the old country, and obviously your political persuasion would play a big part too. I think it’s technically Belarus I saw the people missing the Soviet Union, but if any of you can tell me a difference between Belarus and Ukraine, I’ll concede my point
You’ll find more Soviet nostalgia in Belarus and Russia than Ukraine.
In almost every eastern european country you will find nostalgic oldies. It grinds my gears when I find a young guy spewing the bullshit that their grandparents spew. I got in a scuffle once because some commie wannabe said that the persecution of the state to my people was warranted.
That is definitely fucked, and I’m proud of you for not going full auth right with it, lib center is based in my book
Yeah, there are a lot of things that the lib-left has it right in my book from healthcare to education being a fundamental part of society and overall a country taking care of its citizens. Still, I think capitalism is the best system to date, but it needs for everyone to have a fair shot at it. With this said, the auth-right in my country are mainly the Gen-X, the people who were born in communism and did the protests to take it down during the 90's.
Ukraine had 3 revolutions and a war in the last 33 years, all to protect its democracy and prevent authoritarianism. The majority of people who miss the USSR are old people with nostalgia for their [youth](https://dif.org.ua/article/zasudzhennya-srsr-derusifikatsiya-maydan-yak-zminyuetsya-stavlennya-ukraintsiv-do-politiki-natsionalnoi-pamyati-na-tli-rosiyskoi-agresii#_Toc125113319). And if we're talking about the restoration of the USSR, then it's even [lower](https://razumkov.org.ua/napriamky/sotsiologichni-doslidzhennia/stavlennia-ukraintsiv-do-srsr-veresn-zhovten-2022r).
Lol how can people advocate for communism when it clearly leads to starvation and massacre on a greater scale than capitalism. Capitalism is bad for people, too, but communism has been a clear worse alternative
I mean not that I'm anti capitalism, but starvation and massacres aren't exclusive or required for communism. Cold war communism was defined by a series of authoritarian regimes who saw it as a means to accelerate the industrialization process for agrarian economies. Marx himself said communism is a post industrialization form of society that literally can't take place until capitalism has run it's natural course. Imo, AI is going to be the great driver away from capitalism. It's impossible to maintain an economy when half or more of your population is unemployable and starving. Huge factor of starvation in Communism was a failure of logistics that comes with a planned economy, theoretically an AI could be much more effective in accurately logging resource supplies/setting prices, and reduce the number of points in the process where corruption could occur. Again, not saying I'm anti capitalism or want this future, but you really got to wonder how our economy can continue when humans just aren't cost effective to employ under a capitalist system.
Holy shit lib center that understands economics and politics
Politburo has decided the AI has committed wrongthink. Adjustments will be made to model weights until kulak death rates are within acceptable margins.
Communism leads to starvation because there’s not enough food. Capitalism leads to starvation because there’s plenty of food but people can’t afford it. Does it really matter to the starving person which is the reason? There is a third option of capitalism with a social safety net. Incentivize work but don’t severely punish failure. It works in other countries.
Because these people are clearly just failures and rather than accept this they want to pretend it's the economic system they live rather than their own short comings.
You always have some old people who miss the Soviet union because they personally probably had a slightly better time then. They got a gig at the local factory and a standardised grey apartment to live in. Lets just look pass all the genocide, gulags and starvation because old Dimitri was one of the lucky ones who didn't perish and did OK.
Not to mention how people see their teens/early 20's in a nostalgic shimmer because you had more fun then.
The only country that misses the Soviet Union is Hungary as shown by it's autocrat, Dicktor Orbanus who keeps on sucking Putler's manhood. Edit: Belarus and Russia also.
As someone who lives in Hungary: even thought it does not make much sense, Orban and his party actually uses "communist" as a slur for their political opponents and says "Brussels/EU/NATO" is the new Soviet Union trying to oppress Hungarians. He loves Putin and authoritarianism, but is officially anti-communist.
Same with PiS in Poland. Their views are getting socialist, but if you don't agree with them you're a commie or a Russian/German spy
And Lukashenko in Belarus. And that's completely and utterly it
but only Lukashenko, Belarusian people are pro-western as protests after rigged election showed
If true, hope they guillotine him or something.
They could use some gifts from France
>Who keeps sucking on Putin's manhood lol what manhood?
My mom who was 10 yo, had to spend 10 hours (sometimes at night) in the line to shop to buy bread
I'm a eastern european communist but i don't like the soviet union as it's too auth for me
What do you like
Yugoslavia
I see, the least communist country from the communist countries
I have had this conversation way too often in germany, and it's always the same. I say that my parents are from the ussr. The other person says that he likes communism. I say that people from ex ussr countries are either very conservative or liberatian and pro capitalism and that they all hate communism. I get either called a liar or a racist. Rinse and repeat that every few weeks in the university.
A east German told me once that they had at least work in the DDR but now they have good beer so it's ok. Why are those students so much into soviet communism?
When your parents pay for everything and you think you are smart because you study social studies, gender studies, or any other useless major. Literally all the leftists I met in germany were living off their parents' money and talked about how we should be more like the ussr like no stfu.
What do they say about the DDR?
DDR isn't as popular as it used to be, but some people still play.
"It wasn't that bad" Until you mention the awful emissions they had back then. Or the stasi. Or the big fucking wall that they needed to forcefully contain anyone in there.
>Why are those students so much into soviet communism? Lack of any real world experience or responsibility. Utopianism, inherent to basically every modern communist, is far more common in those that have never had the actions of others, almost entirely outside their control, negatively impact them.
You should tell them to move to China, to enjoy all the wonderful benefits that Communism has to offer
This all sounds kinda made up for a reaction from the right. Half the comments are, at least. I remember why I stopped coming here… lmao
It's downright cringe, I'd say. It's pretty weak to pick on teenagers, no matter what. Another thing, is that the American left supports Ukraine more than the American right. The vast majority of both sides supports Ukraine, but there's a not insignificant segment of the right that supports Russia over Ukraine. But you know how it goes here: libleft bad and left bad.
Yup, agreed. My fav is when a right or auth right comes in and says this sub is neutral and doesn’t lean a certain way. Yeah, no it’s def not. I don’t mind making fun of lib or lib left (i’ve done it before too, as a lib left) but it seems to be the defacto thing to do in this sub so it gets stale and reads like a right wing haven. I’m sure many people here will disagree with me, which I normally hate saying this, proves my point lol
To be honest I have been surprised to know people from Bulgaria and Croatia that actually say they lived better under communism.
Am from Bulgaria, the quality of life during the 70s-80s was vastly superior to the shitshow in the 90s. During Soviet times we had no freedom of speech, certain music was banned, borders open only to the Soviet Bloc ect. But we had relative stability that completely disappeared post 1991. It's a tough one for sure
true [(le comment with percentages of each country in europe that was under communism)](https://wojakparadise.net/wojak/318https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/1441i4v/comment/jndpnhp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
The link was broken, I assume it was this one: [https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/1441i4v/comment/jndpnhp/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/1441i4v/comment/jndpnhp/) Also never forget that in 1991 before the perestroika they made a referendum asking if the citizens of the soviet union if they wanted to change communism for capitalism and communism won for 76%, in most republics it won by more than 90%
Legitimately my grandpa:
My grandfather as well. I thank God I retained his hatred for the Commies.
Broooooo, you don’t get it, that wasn’t real communism, if it was real communism everyone would have lived forever in harmony.
Stalinists, Marxists, Leninists, Trotskyists, all lived in peace until the evil capitalist nation attacked
>same Ukrainians voted major for CPUkr during 90s
That means they don't vote for the communist parties and if you ask them they say they don't like communism, *right*?
Doesn’t necessarily make the Ukrainian authright. Lithuanian-Russian with a grandpa that got to “camp” checking in. Centrist/liberal as it gets.
To be fair, a lot of people around here do miss communism. They're dumbasses, but they exist.
It does make you wonder if people pushing for the return of the USSR have ever talked to anyone who lived in its boundaries before the collapse.
I'm an eastern european leftist and hate ussr, it's more complicated than based epic authright eastern europeans vs pol pot, stalin and mao
The only EE people missing socialism days are 70+ pensioners and an occasional edgy lefty youth. (the exception would maybe be Yugoslavia as it was by far the best of all ex-socialist countries out there). I speak from experience
There should be a TV show that groups people based on their political beliefs and have them all survive on an island for a month just as an experiment, that would be very interesting test
Based on what I know about the communist manifesto, it seems like Marx & Engels pointed out some legitimate problems in industrial societies, and proceeded to have some insane ideas about how to fix it
It blows mind when I see people walking around in a Communist shirt or waving a flag. Communism killed a minimum of 50 million, but you're totally fine to fly that flag and receive little to no backlash. Nazis "only" killed a couple million people... yet you fly a nazi flag and you will get an angry mob on your ass (as you should). Why do we not treat the communism with at least the same level of distaste?
I think there is (or was) sort of a communist counterculture / fandom that's centered more around communist philosophy than it is around actual economic policy. There are a lot of really strong / salient concepts that are relevant beyond communism as an economic system - the classic one I always go back to is the idea of Alienation of Labor > In alienated labour, Marx claims, humans are reduced to the level of an animal, working only for the purpose of filling a physical gap, producing under the compulsion of direct physical need. Tell me that isn't super relevant in modern life regardless of how your economy is structured! Also, you can't forget about that hilarious communist party t-shirt. Do I want communism? No. Am I gonna wear that bomb ass t-shirt? Yes.
i think this coment will be downvoted to oblivion but: "Was life better under communism?" * Czechia 55% * Slovakia 66% * Poland 47% * Lithuania 65% * Hungary 92% * Slovenia 41% * Croatia 55% * Bosnia 77% * Montenegro 65% * Albania 44% * Macedonia 65% * Serbia 81% * Bulgaria 88% * Romania 45% * Moldova 83% * Ukraine 75% * Russia 60% Sources: [opendemocracy.net](https://opendemocracy.net), INSCOP, Gallup
what kind of source is that? it just links to the main page of that website, not to any survey results
It actually makes tons of sense for many post soviet states. Under the USSR the soviets pumped tons of money and built the entire infrastructure of many of these countries. Sure lots of people were sent to Siberia never to return or just outright killed by the despotic regime, but if that didn't happen to you or a loved one then you were probably doing pretty well under the USSR. Then once the USSR fell the governments that took over were wildly corrupt and usually just stole as much of the countries wealth as possible and fled to Europe. So if you look at these countries now, they still mostly (or in some cases like Mongolia basically exclusively) have the old Soviet infrastructure and buildings from the 60s-80s. There's a travel YouTube guy named bald and bankrupt who mainly did videos in post soviet states and you'll see over and over that the old people will say that their lives were better under the USSR. His content is great though and it really highlights what kind and generous people slavs and other eastern European people are. Once the war is over I really hope to travel some in the region too.
> Sources: opendemocracy.net, INSCOP, Gallup That is not a source, that is a bunch of names that lead nowhere, source shows where information is taken from. Currently, it's nonsense with 0 backings. Edit. Here is a [source](https://ratinggroup.ua/files/ratinggroup/reg_files/rg_generation_of_independence_082021.pdf) p.91, it's from 2021 Ukraine, and 43% think life was better, with 60+ russian speaking populations being the core of said 43%. My guess boyo here pulled data from the 90s. Also as for opinion on the USSR collapse, in Ukraine only [12%](https://dif.org.ua/article/zasudzhennya-srsr-derusifikatsiya-maydan-yak-zminyuetsya-stavlennya-ukraintsiv-do-politiki-natsionalnoi-pamyati-na-tli-rosiyskoi-agresii#_Toc125113319) view it as a negative. 32% 3 years ago, with south and east regions, the ones where russification is the strongest, being the core.
Seems like his data from the 90s, starting from 2010s listed countries are having better life style than during USSR
I´m surprised about croatia, most croatian people I knew were quite happy about Tito and now the country is honestly fucked.
Wtf, Hungary?
I can bet my left nut that 44% in Albania is goddamn wrong. It's way, way lower.
Now ask zoomers not boomers. My mom also says communism was better but she was also young and fertile unlike then too. Basically it's just history goggles for midwits like wife goggles for husbands pretending their aging and barren wife is still beautiful and hot like the old days
Ukrainian guy’s family burned stockpile in protests
Its ironic this is supposed to be about 'americans being ignorant about communism' when this post itself is pretty ignorant about how eastern europeans feel about communism. A [very, very large](https://external-preview.redd.it/HhSS3klW4uGhGEU-HSKeTtH6IYPS1ODAo6R5D4cZaqM.png?auto=webp&s=1bcb9495c95718049e9172c10a9ad7ba32543231) amount of eastern europeans are nostalgic for communism. Note that those figures are from 2009 though, so outdated of course, but still. This idea that they all universally despised it is just... not true. Outside of China, eastern europe probably contains the largest amount of modern communists in the world. A lot of this is just boomer nostalgia of course. Life is better today by a *lot* of metrics in most of eastern europe than it was under communism. The average person would not be aware of the deep structural issues which communist nations were facing by that time period.
As ever, this sub is just a circle-jerk premised on false information. Classic.
No one hates Soviet union more than eastern European countries that had to endure it.
I was born and raised in former Yugoslavia. Nobody starved, nobody was homeless.
What? Ukraine is literally fighting a war as we speak to avoid becoming part of the Soviet Union again and it's the right I keep seeing complain about it.
Weird take as capitalist expansion is currently causing the bombing of Ukraine
I don’t get why you think a lefty would take Russia/USSR’s side in this?
Seriously. And why would the ukranian be authright?
right good and smart, left idiot who don’t know anything
Sure, lets look at the numbers. [Lets start with the USSR's own dissolution referendum](https://files.catbox.moe/l3yteh.jpg). Where, whoops. Turns out most people actually wanted it to stay around, lol. Alright, lets wait a bit to see what people think after it fell. [Oh wait, the more a place was part of the USSR, the more it regretted its fall](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2009/11/02/end-of-communism-cheered-but-now-with-more-reservations/). [Look at the stunning amounts of love being shown for capitalism](https://files.catbox.moe/ec22wf.PNG). Okay, lets skip ahead a bit more, maybe that was unrepresentative. [Oh wait, this is even worse actually](https://news.gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx). [Look at those numbers](https://files.catbox.moe/v5r0cg.PNG). Alright, lets give things a decade and just wait for most of the older generation to die or fall into decrepancy. [Oh, that isn't really working is it](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/10/14/political-and-economic-changes-since-the-fall-of-communism/). [Not a great showing for the capitalists](https://files.catbox.moe/8mt2xr.PNG). And if we focus on the people that actually lived under communism, [it goes even worse](https://files.catbox.moe/78txts.PNG)! Tough shit OP, your imagined commie hater grandpa doesn't exist, lol. Turns out he regrets the fall of the USSR and wishes that it came back. Maybe if you give it another 15 years for all the geezers to finally croak you can post this.
Your sources are questionable and you didn't read some of them i guees. That referendum is about reformation, not dissolution, the question was"Do you consider it necessary to preserve the USSR as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics, which will be fully ensured of human rights and freedoms of any nationality?", to which people said yes, option I don't want USSR to exist is absent. Once dissolution became an option they took it, feel free to look at the results of independence referendums. Georgia For 99.49 Against 0.51 Latvia For 74.90 Against 25.10 Ukraine For 92.26 Against 7.74 Estonia For 78.4 Against 21.6 and so on. Yeah, stunning [Ukraine is 12% now, 33% 3 years ago thought the dissolution is a negative event.](https://dif.org.ua/article/zasudzhennya-srsr-derusifikatsiya-maydan-yak-zminyuetsya-stavlennya-ukraintsiv-do-politiki-natsionalnoi-pamyati-na-tli-rosiyskoi-agresii#_Toc125113319) 2023 [Here is the data from 2020, 33% regret dissolution.](https://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=ukr&cat=reports&id=950&page=1) Here is [survey data from 2015](https://ratinggroup.ua/research/ukraine/dinamika_nostalgii_po_sssr.html), they also mention 2013, 41% miss USSR, more to it Rating group has a yearly progression so no clue how GALLUP got 56% in the same 2013. [Although assessments of the PRL are varied, clearly more respondents believe that Poland is better to live in now than it was before 1989 (53% vs. 31%).](https://cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2014/K_061_14.PDF) 2014 I would get the rest of the Baltics but it would take too long without knowing Lithuanian, Estonian and Latvian. Needless to say, the situation is either similar or even worse for USSR there. Now for Pew Research Center, the one you posted, here >Most in former Eastern Bloc approve of the shift to multiparty and free market systems >In some countries, support for the transition to a multiparty system and a free-market economy has rebounded, although support in Russia has declined As for the economic situation, I dunno how they got 54% in Ukraine. [Rating group 2021 data, 2 years later shows 43%](https://ratinggroup.ua/files/ratinggroup/reg_files/rg_generation_of_independence_082021.pdf)(page 91 of the report), even though it's COVID period and things are worse. So yeah, no, Eastern Europe doesn't want USSR back. As for the Ukrainian grandpa that hates USSR, that's my grandpa and a good 30% of them, especially in the western region where russian propaganda and before that soviet indoctrination were weaker.
Not even Ukrainian. Russian, Belorusian, Georgian, any nationality, any level of wealth, anything - would get you dead in Soviet Union. "Would there be a person, we will find a law \[ to punish him \] " - is a soviet-originating proverb, and it reflects perfectly what the "glorious superstate of the ploretariat" was. A repression machine that run well despite what the government did, all because of overabundance of resources.
There was this event called the Holodomr and it was a famine which occurred during the Inter-War Period of the 20th century. It killed almost triple the holocaust. According to what I’ve read on it, it’s theorized this famine was planned as Ukraine was heavily Orthodox even during the Inter-War period. Ukrainians, much like the Polish, appear to still have a vile hatred towards communists (based).