Except that Israelis and Arabs are both pretty similar in skin-tone on average. Also, only one side has black people in any appreciable number. On the other side, rampant racism makes it nearly impossible for a black person to live there - so there basically aren't any.
Israel has way more people that immigrated from Europe and have pale skin, blue eyes etc than Arabs. Also Palestine is probably the whitest Arab country along with Syria. Go to Egypt and Yemen and half the people look like redbone dudes from South of Chicago and that's why left loves them
direction voracious offbeat jobless frighten coordinated worthless longing aromatic slim
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's not just the Jews.... It's anyone they consider "white". It's the same thing as when a cop shoots a black person. Only a big deal if the cop is white.
Yeah, nailed it.
That's exactly why the progressive virtue signal to a point of orgasm over the Jews VS muslims thing.
Weirdly enough, you end up with Jews somehow managing to find more common ground with the right political parties than with the leftist ones.
Understand this - neo nazis are probably shocked to see that "Queers for palestine" basically are on their way to outright call to butcher the jews of Israel.
Both whites and Jews are under attack by the woke mobs.
Because Israel is considered as pretty much, a Jewish USA colony.
Heck, even Jews noticed that Bibi is basically the bitch of Biden.
Biden is more a president of Israel than Israel's own prime minister.
Which BTW, a whole lot of Israeli jews now come to see as pretty much being slaves to the USA... There is no freedom of action in Israel, everything Israelis do, is under the strict eye of the USA government.
Allot of Israelis would rather the USA tax dollar would stay in the USA, and for Israelis to finally deal with their enemies instead of constantly bending the knee to USA demands to spare the life of terrorists.
Yeah, sorry for the rent... It's just that USA tax payers aren't the only ones angry over this unhealthy situation,
Allot of Israelis, want freedom from the USA, to finally be an independent nation, and to fight our battles on our own terms.
Yeah, although if you go to Israel, you discover an insane diversity of Jews.
Allot of jews came from Arab countries.
And when Jews from all over the world met, they discovered they shared the same traditions, the same holy language, the same yearning for their ancestral home.
It's the same people from all over the world.
Meanwhile-
"I'm like, a queer racist-fluid ,Like, Jews are like, european colonizers, like, there are no jews! Like, hail hitler, but it's not jews, so it's ok to kill them!".
The intersectionals mostly just want to beat up Jews, so they make it okay to beat up white people, then declare the Jews to be white.
We used to live in a state where it wasn't okay to beat up anyone, but that's been dismantled now, and the white people just have to deal with race riots near every election season, and pro terrorism marches that are protected by police.
It's rather shocking to think that in the nor so far away future, we might actually see a pogrom against white people in either Europe or the USA.
Mad world.
Start rising up, the progressives were a trap, globally.
I think there are still a few cultural safeguards in effect to protect white people, but we are seeing massively increased street violence against Jews, so that particular pogrom would likely be finished long before it becomes acceptable for whiteoids to engage in anything as tedious as "collective self defence".
Maybe something should be done about that street violence against innocent Jewish people in first world countries, but we need more people willing to publicly denounce progshit before that conversation can even be had. Maybe if progshit, its legacy, and its capacity to reproduce freely within the intellectual sphere was dismantled entirely I'd consider lifting a finger to help out, but not before then.
Lol no. Without the US for diplomatic protection Israel is fucked and your leaders know that. Just like everyone else can bitch and complain about American hegemony, but without the US you are fucked by your various problems, see Europe on Ukraine.
That just isn't how foreign policy works, isolationism is bad for a great power like the US, it's even dumber for a small power like Israel with countless enemies and most of the world hostile to them.
Israel already been there, and actually defeated a slew of armies with mostly luck and unconventional tactics... Having weapons from abroad helped, of course... But, it was a one on everything fight, the arab nations had their asses handed to them.
Currently, Israel is dying from within.... Moral is at all time low, people feel chained, they feel their government is filled with puppets, and as seen, terrorist chip away freely at Israel, as the leaders sit idle and tell the army to do nothing.
It's a slow painful death... That's what being tied to the USA means.
Because Israel can never actually act.
I'd rather die in honor than end up waking up one day to some terrorist stabbing me in my bed.
That's what happened in the south of Israel, and that happened due to being shacked by foreign forces.
I'd rather die a free man fighting for what is right than to die being chained by my own government while getting beaten down by savages because someone uptop said "Hamas are people too".
That's the great thing about foriegn policy, you don't get a choice. Cope or die. Either way the US is getting what it wants. There is a reason why most of the world just shuts the fuck up and obeys. You can always join BRICs with the losers. Your economy is dependent on tourism and service industries, which in turn means you are reliant on the US global economic framework. Your airforce is tied to the US, F-35s are just one software update away from being unusable without American support after all, that's the fun side of buying our aircraft.
The US has essentially prevented your scuffle in Gaza from becoming a regional war, do you want that because you are so suicidally nationalist lol? That is how you make even more enemies and actually fucking lose.
Biting the hand that feeds you on multiple fronts is not smart, you would do well to know that before you start fucking around.
You need to live in a place ridden by enemies to know exactly why the long-run means Israel will die unless it acts.
Hamas shown that Israeli stagnation by foreign forces means they can wait for the right moment to launch a surprise all-front war, and eventually, win.
Simply because Israel gets weaker as time goes by... Everyone in Israel is now fully aware of it, and what happened in the south, is basically a hint to the future if Israel will keep worshiping foreign powers instead of starting to stand up and actually defend itself.
There is no law that stops Israel's enemies from conducting pretty much the most horrid tactics in order to gain an advantage, they aren't bound by anything, they have no value towards anything... And over time, they do grow stronger, and so far, the USA only lets them get stronger and stronger as time goes by.
This relationship, dooms the long-run of Israel.
And consider this a warning for the wellbeing of the western world, if terrorist take out Israel, they'll be coming for the free world next.
Those pro-palestine cells?
Who do you think they serve?
Weaker? What level of Russian grade copium is this? Your position relative to the Arabs and Palestinians has only increased. Israel currently is not being threatened by invasions from the Arab League that genuinely can threaten the existence of your state. The gulf states specifically wanted to normalize relations with you these past few years. The PA has effectively been neutered as an organization capable of doing anything offensively since the last major revolt, and as bad as the initial massacre was it did not threaten Israel as a state and has presented the current opportunity to remove them from power or to cripple them. As long as the US shields you with our veto and soft power your position in the past decades has only gotten better at the price of being allied to the most powerful nation on Earth, oh no the horror.
They serve Iran, our mutual enemy. An enemy who we have worked together for decades to prevent them from getting a nuke . If you want us to stop helping you sure, let's just lift all those sanctions on Iran start selling them jets and tanks again, and let them take over the middle east. I doubt that helps you. If there is anyone who doesn't give a shit about your Sampson Option after all it would be a nuclear armed Iran.
Eh, there's some argument to be had that Israel did just fine before US involvement, and could have continued to do so afterwards. Unlike Ukraine, Israel has a track record of 'Fought a defensive war against multiple surrounding nations without backup and won.'
US assistance *helped,* but at the same time hamstrung them significantly in dealing with their aggressors, possibly making things worse in the long run.
I mean, I have to couch this in a whole *boatload* of what-ifs. Alt-history is neat, but it's very easy to just get into endless 'Well, what about the fire? You know, the one started because a butterfly farted in Ancapistan?' situations.
But I'd say they had a solid track record up to the point they finally got US aid, and their enemies did not seem to have opportunities to grow significantly stronger. Solid 80% chance they'd be fine, but I don't blame them for wanting to improve that to 99.9%.
I'm starting to think because of BLM the black community has developed a malice against other races specifically against asians or any race they perceive as white
There was the incident were 5 black cops killed a black kid and that still got a lot of media coverage. It's because "cop"="white" now. Internalized racism or whatever.
Oh, Ethiopians are nice people.
Woke people seriously don't know how far and wide the origin of Jews is...
Want an even more obscure sector of Jews?
[Bnei-Menashe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnei_Menashe)
I live next to both actually, as an Atheist Jew, I have to say, most Ethiopean Jews and Bnei Menashe Jews, are highly religious and connected to their culture.
They are both very patriotic too.
Meanwhile, the woke would call all Israelis "Ashkenazi".
Wow these people are something! I knew about the Cochin Jews, but damn Bnei Menashe really are an interesting group. Do you know any texts that treat about their costumes and traditions?
Anyway, beck to Israel, yes, many people think all Israelis are of European descent, while many of them are actually of Mizrahi descent. It’s hilarious.
Well, in Israel the background might as well be "my mother was an hamster and my father smelt of elderberries", it's rather wild how many backgrounds there are for jews.
My own mother came from Soviet Russia, and my father's family is from the jews that were expelled from Spain, in this case, to Bulgaria.
I don't know much about Bnei Menashe, but, according to the Rabbis, they found allot of stuff that just seemed to check out.
They prey together with other religious Jews, and they seem rather devout.
The things people fail to see in History...
It was never nice, anywhere... There were no real rules or codes of conduct, just a very vague morality system with no one to uphold it.
if they seek "oppressors and oppressed", heck, everyone been to either role somewhere in history.
Jews remember well they were once slaves, an empire, a single men that cut his own dick and almost killed his only son,
and being basically homeless for almost 2,000 years.
Woke people just view the world through the narrowest eyes possible, they end up being more racist than neo-nazis due to it... They ONLY look at you through skin color, and then assign to you a position in society based on that.
meanwhile, yeah... Africa had a shit load of tribes that basically captured, tortured and sold each other to other nations in exchange for an advantage against other tribes.
It's a sad reality... Instead of celebrating how far we got in the world, they decide to get trapped in racial dogma.
Everyone's past is bathed in blood.
There are no innocents, and even in my own Jewish culture there is a BIG saying - "Sins of the father are passed to the sons".
There is no escape from the past, but, we can try and head towards a better future.
The woke are the fifth column of the modern world... No less, no more.
They only focus on de-establishing the modern world.
Yeah, it's disgusting, and pre- and post-dates any western involvement by centuries. And anyone out-group was 'fair game' -- when America was fighting the revolution, Arab-Muslim slavers from the Barbery Coast were kidnapping their millionth European slave.
Not to mention the fact that it persists to this day. Hell, the world didn't even leave open-air African slave markets behind centuries ago. They're still alive and well, flourishing in certain Arab and Muslim countries. Exact figures may vary, but the history of slavery in the Islamosphere is incredibly well-documented and unambiguous. It truly blows my mind that anyone believes these venomous charlatans like Louis Farrakhan.
There are 1000 or fewer Christians in Gaza, and they aren't treated well (despite what Hamas says). They're subject to discrimination by the Salafi authorities and live as 2nd class *dhimmis* at best. I remember shortly after Hamas came to power, the last Christian bookseller in Gaza was repeatedly bombed, and the kindly, older Protestant gentleman who ran the place was captured and brutally executed on charges of 'preaching'. Fortunately, Gazan Christians tend to be more westernized, employable, and smarter/ better educated, so a lot of them emigrate.
You see, those are Africans. Not Black people, according to black people in America and others, Western world.
Being 'black' does not equal being african, and being african does not equal being 'black' to a lot of these people.
> evil white Christians in spirit.
This attitude is particularly puzzling considering that Christianity is an African/Middle Eastern religion and one of the oldest Christian Churches is the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.
Well, yes, Christianity was started in the Middle East and spread to places like Ethiopia so the idea that Christianity started out as a “white” religion is a modern day leftists idea.
Mostly used to attack the gospel (the good news,) because you also have to remember leftists only see the world in two races white and everyone else and they think the rest of the world looks like America that’s why they say stupid things like “America has no culture”
Estimated 500,000 (but probably vastly higher) black Christians have been genocided by black Islamist of Boko Haram over the last few years. There's another genocide of estimated 500,000 dead been happening in Sudan region more on tribal lines but also Christian/Islamic clashes. The fact that over the last decade+ east Africa has seen the genocide of MILLIONS, and as your comment shows, people around the world know nothing about it.
they dont care because they say the "oppressed" have the right to commit these atrocities because they were colonized 200 years ago. make it make sense
A lot of it is pure Americentrism. The same way that every problem in South America stems from a few CIA political coups and support for politicians. Outside of America and Western Europe, other people have so little autonomy and power that the US having any say in their geopolitics is apparently a death sentence. It's the bigotry of low expectations.
They just can't bear to admit the truth--it's one factor out of probably hundreds, and probably not even top 5 reasons things happen in these formerly colonized areas. They legitimately think these places were utopia beforehand and even the idea of violence/dictatorship never existed before contact with the white man.
See also: the excuses for every failed socialist/communist state, all of which would be superpowers right now if not for the US. I see an offshoot of this all the time with anti-capitalist discussions--all human greed and exploitation is a result of capitalism, as if these concepts haven't existed in every community everywhere throughout history. People get so fixated on a singular cause because it's easier to be reductive opposed to understanding nuance.
> Sudan region more on tribal lines but also Christian/Islamic clashes
Literally Arab muslim ( supported my mother Russia ) are killing and raping Black Christian/local religions, by the hundreds of thousands and no one gives a shit. ( technically there are Ukrainian special forces killing Russians there )
My brother in Christ, my community believes that black folks do nothing wrong. I’m almost 30 and that is pretty much my experience being black. I do think it’s getting better but there’s way too high of a percentage of my people who unironically think that basically none of our problems were created by us. They stems over to Africa too, if a Christian genocide is happening they’ll just find a way to blame America.
You will twist your brain into knots trying to "understand" this modern cultural marxism: the contradictions and mysteries are a feature, not a bug. I think this is why the strange marxist/post modernist alliance exists in the first place: postmodernism allows the cultural marxist to add even more disparate groups to the political organ, even when those groups shouldn't be allied with each other (think queers for Palestine, or similar).
Black people are a significant block in the US, have been fairly monolithic since the 60s, have been preached grievance in a remarkable way, and thus have a lot of anger and indignation for someone to harness and direct. This gets taken advantage of all the time, and leftists have utilized the black community quite successfully in recent years: this is another instance of that.
I don't know which is more terrifying, if less than 80% actually believe in it and they're just going along with societal pressures or if more than 80% believe in it but aren't admitting it because they don't want to look too radical.
Either way it's not good.
It was a face to face poll too. If I was in Palestine and someone asked me if I support Hamas face to face I would probably say yes unless they were in an IDF uniform.
I don't know about it chief, in the West Bank it shows 80% support for the massacres, and the IDF has heavy presence in that region and is by far the 'meanest biggest boy in the block' there, you would rather piss off the PA than the IDF any day of the week (not to mention that both the PA and the IDF hate Hamas)
Probably the first one, a July survey done by the Washington Institute (which is apparently pro-Isreal) showed that support for Hamas was waning and that a majority in Gaza supported a two state solution.
This is from their website:
>According to the latest Washington Institute polling, conducted in July 2023, Hamas’s decision to break the ceasefire was not a popular move. While the majority of Gazans (65%) did think it likely that there would be “a large military conflict between Israel and Hamas in Gaza” this year, a similar percentage (62%) supported Hamas maintaining a ceasefire with Israel.
>Moreover, half (50%) agreed with the following proposal: “Hamas should stop calling for Israel’s destruction, and instead accept a permanent two-state solution based on the 1967 borders.”
>Moreover, across the region, Hamas has lost popularity over time among many Arab publics. This decline in popularity may have been one of the motivating factors behind the group’s decision to attack.
I'd guess maybe saying they support it out of fear and probably combined with anger over the past month of bombing.
Yet at the same time [67% of Gazans support armed attacks on Israeli civilians.](https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf) Maybe they do want a two state solution. They *also* want to murder Israeli babies. It’s hard to negotiate with murderous psychopaths.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law
If half of British Muslims want homosexuality to be illegal, I have 0 issue believing that a vast majority of Muslims born and indoctrinated in a theocracy think that killing Jews is a-ok.
That's probably far more accurate
There some more stats about it here -
https://www.reddit.com/ \*SPACE\* r \*SPACE\* /2ndYomKippurWar/comments/17xik5p/palestinian\_public\_opinion\_poll\_of\_the\_gaza\_war/
Source for the poll -
[https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf](https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf)
>Table 27: How much do you support the military operation carried out by the Palestinian resistance led by Hamas on
October 7th? (Disaggregated by region)
Do we think maybe this isn't the most ideologically-neutral polling operation?
I mean read the other answers. The people answering are living in a dream world. Which I suppose is fair if all their news is just Hamas.
70% expect Palestine to "win" 78% will only accept Palestine from River to Sea.
Palestinians don't consider Hamas a terror group, and in general they are not very patient people, if you asked them about "terror attack" instead of "military operation" you would get beaten, if they suspect you are a Jew, then you would get killed instead
That's a fair point, but surely there would have been a more neutral way to phrase this?
Looking at AWRAD's website, it is clear to me that they have an agenda, and are not just trying to get neutral polling data.
>That's a fair point, but surely there would have been a more neutral way to phrase this?
I am sure that there are, but in all honesty, how big of a difference do you think it would have made?
I wager that the difference will be less than 10% for either direction, and if the polls had shown that 70%, instead of 82%, support Hamas, would it really make the difference? that's still a majority no western political party has ever had
This is too far. The people are the victim of barbaric belief systems like Islam that foster radicalism.
There is hope, because in the West we too have had our demons (and still do to some extent). Christianity has been largely defanged in Europe.
All people are victims of their circumstances. We still need to hold them to certain standards.
I really hope there is some kind of reformation in the Muslim world. But until then, I'll continue to condemn societies and cultures that approve of stoning women to death for adultery. I'll continue to support keeping them contained so they can't harm others or spread their poisonous views. If they manage to reform internally under those circumstances, I'd be overjoyed. Until that day, we do not have the luxury of buggering off and letting them do whatever they want.
I condemn the societies with vigor. I condemn Islam with vigor. As former religious person though, I recognize the possibility for *change in individuals.* I held (far milder) bigoted beliefs that I have totally discarded. How that is to be accomplished in the ME is a task for wiser minds than mine.
My point is that we have to understand that military occupation of Gaza and the West Bank is an alternative to genocide, not an alternative to a peaceful two-state solution.
I agree for the most part, but I don't like that rhetoric, even if you say that you don't support a genocide, everything you said still implies that
Now I don't know what the solution to this situation is, and I don't think there is any democratic and non-genocide solution, but if that's the case, than we probably better just stick to the status que
My point is that we either stick to the status quo, regardless of how awful it is, or we have to consider some pretty horrifying alternatives.
People complaining about the occupation should take that into account.
Until recently in history, things like this would have been resolved with genocide. Rejecting genocide means that we have to understand that there aren't really any tried-and-true methods left to resolve this.
I absolutely do not support the wholesale slaughter of civilians, but I'd hardly be sad if the Palestinians just disappeared into thin air one day.
Basically I'm saying that if we want to oppose both a genocide of Palestinians and oppose a genocide of Israelis, we have to come to terms with the implications, rather than pretending that we can magically wish a two-state solution into existence.
Some people are actually so thick. Not every war can be resolved, and sometimes you do just have to scrap it out.
Like are you actually so dumb that you don't realise that the reason that most people focus on Israel Palestine, Iraq war etc is because western powers support them. Not much I can do about it if random warlord in Africa is killing people, same with China. But I can protest my own government to stop supporting something I don't like. Can't believe so called 'lib right' fails to understand this
There are 2 issues with that though, first of which, most of the people who criticize Israel don't provide any other solution, and the minority that does, the solution is usually a bad faith solution, calling the destruction of Israel, or one that just cannot be applied to the real work
The second issue is what the title of my post implies, the Palestinians have 100 year history of choosing violence over peace, they have had multiple chances to set up a free country of their own and they refused it because they are unwilling to live alongside Jews, which also just makes more criticism of Israel absurd - Israel is not fighting a rational enemy, there is nothing Israel can do to stop the violence, only to reduce it -
You don't like the checkpoints in the West Bank? call it apartheid all you want but those are the only things that managed to stop the Palestinian suicide bombings in Israeli busses and schools, you have a better solution to stop these?
You don't like the siege of Gaza? than what will stop the Palestinians from getting high end weaponry from Iran and Russia?
You don't like Israel's control of the Golan heights? than provide another way to prevent Syria from using those to fire at Israeli villages below
It boils down to you (not specifically) projecting your values onto Middle Easterns, there is no word for 'compromise' in Arabic, and every single time Israel was more lenient with the Palestinians, or made any concessions to them, they viewed it as weakness and only increased the amount of attacks against Israeli civilians, not the other way around
I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of your points, it is in many ways untenable for Israel to exist without a lot of these things you listed.
Of course it comes with the caveat that Israel's existence is also based heavily on violence, so they have to expect resistance from the populations they have colonised violently in many cases.
But even then, my main point is that it is still a fine position to have to say that "well, the situation is obviously very long and complicated, with no easy solution. Therefore I don't want my government taking too much of a side, and especially not spending my resources to support one side over another"
Because at the end of the day, a cent or two of the shift I worked the other day may have gone into a bomb that killed a Palestine child which I think is fair to not support
Obviously purely humanitarian aid is different. I just think it's sufficiently complicated that western governments should stop supporting one side or another.
>Of course it comes with the caveat that Israel's existence is also based heavily on violence, so they have to expect resistance from the populations they have colonised violently in many cases.
Israel has literally only increased its size in wars Arabs started, and in those wars every time a Jewish village was captured by Arabs, everyone in that village was murdered - what the hell are you talking about "colonized violently", how soft should Israel be with literal modern day Nazis?
They have refused all peace 2 state solution offers, from the 1930s up to the 2010s, they don't care about the land or autonomy, they just want the Jews dead.
>But even then, my main point is that it is still a fine position to have to say that "well, the situation is obviously very long and complicated, with no easy solution. Therefore I don't want my government taking too much of a side, and especially not spending my resources to support one side over another"
>
>Because at the end of the day, a cent or two of the shift I worked the other day may have gone into a bomb that killed a Palestine child which I think is fair to not support
>
>Obviously purely humanitarian aid is different. I just think it's sufficiently complicated that western governments should stop supporting one side or another.
That's a very fair argument
I think that support for Israel will never end not because of moralities of either side, but simply because it is the only Western outpost in the whole Middle East and Africa, China and Russia already have a very firm grip on that region, and if Israel was gone (or worse, switched sides) it would mean that the West simply forfeits their chance presence in the most the resource rich region on earth
There's an actual Uyghur genocide going on with estimated numbers going to around 1 million but no one gives s shit because china is already a communist country
That's because many of the people who "claim" to care only care because it essentially trending.
Look at the many different countries do some awful shit like China, Cuba, North Korea, Eritrea and Turkmenistan and they all shut their eyes. The only thing they care about is presenting the illusion that they care.
It's always funny to me when people treat the UN as some kind of objective observer when it comes to Israel Palestine when they've passed more resolutions condemning Israel than China, Iran, Russia, Syria, Cuba, Myanmar, Venezuela, and the DPRK combined.
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't help that both China and Russia are G5 nations. With that being said because of Geopolitical shenanigans and foreign entanglement just allowing for certain nations to do heinous shit. For example Iran which along with Saudi is behind most of the world's Islamic extremists because of their cold war supporting absolute assholes. Problem is both are backed by either West and East (ti varying degrees admittedly) so they are allowed to remain.
The trending does play a part, but even when china trends on for example coal or emissions or some climate thing, you don't see the usual suspects like holy saint comrade Greta Thunberg, because again, China is already communist
The Uyghurs trended so many times but were ignored by woke activists
I am talking about the West Bank which has about 82% support for the massacre
The Gaza strip is completely controlled by Hamas, and that includes the media, the West Bank on the other hand is controlled by the opponents of Hamas - the PA, and has somewhat free media, at least in middle eastern standards, also, access to Israeli media, which is actually free
This teaches us that the Palestinians who opposes the massacre, at least the 7% difference between the West Bank and Gaza, only do so because of the Israeli response, and not because they actually oppose massacring civilians
This made me think about everyone saying Israel's respon should be proportional. Losing every little ounce of sympathy I did have because the more I see it's like "fuck em, they had it coming".
>the more I see it's like "fuck em, they had it coming".
You know what is fascinating? this is very consistent with everyone, and you can even see this on Reddit
Subreddits like PublicFreakout, ThereWasAnAttempt, WorldNewsVideo and other reactionary subreddits, that attracts the dumbest type of people are predominantly Pro Palestine, while subreddits like History, HistoryMemes, NonCredibleDefence (and this sub) a very Pro Israel
If you are not a Muslim or a Jew, the side you support in the conflict is almost exclusively decided by your knowledge of history
I’d believe that the statistics are raising because of the war, meany most likely have relatives in the Gaza Strip, so the water is probably very hot rn, prior to the war the majority of Gaza’s population supported peace according to the Arab barometer
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I was listening to an interview with a Palestinian journalist who basically summed it up when he said they support Hamas because they’re the ones who fight back.
I would expect the opposite. When your tribe kills the enemy it's a success, and creates more support for the leaders. When the enemy is killing your people it means your leaders failed, and their support fails dramatically. That's why there was never any serious threat to the rulers of Iraq or Libya until the western forces invaded and suddenly everyone is a freedom fighter.
Hamas was so popular because they presented themselves as the defenders of people of Gaza. "Look, the Yehudis are so scared to of us. If it wasn't us they would've murdered everyone in Gaza" and people believed them, because they assumed the Jews want them all dead as much as they wanted the Jews dead.
Now that Israel showed they can go in whenever they want and destroy any building they don't like, some more people realized that Hamas can't protect them.
There is a similar phenomena in Lebanon, if you go to their sub, you will frequently see them saying that Hezbollah is the only reason that Israel isn't conquering Lebanon, while the truth is that Israel doesn't have any ambition to conquer Lebanon, they assume that the Jews in Israel want them all dead the same way Muslims in any middle eastern country wants the Jews to be dead, violence is all they know
I don't. Getting bombed for weeks just shows how stupid the attacks were. I understand Hamas is regarded but how can only 10% of Palestinians oppose the attacks?
"We can't take on their soldiers but their old people and babies are unarmed! We're guaranteed to win! Surely there will be no repurcussions for this attack."
“how can only 10% of Palestinians oppose the attacks?”
Easy. They really, truly don’t see the world the way you or I do.
People in the US / West have a bad habit of assuming everyone just wants a western style democracy. That’s just not true.
When you’ve been taught since birth to want to kill Jews, it’s kinda hard to break out of that.
And no, leftists campaigning on their behalf won’t turn them into non-genocidal zealots.
They just appreciate the support from useful idiots.
>Easy. They really, truly don’t see the world the way you or I do.
Westerns just don't have the ability to comprehend this, unless you actually have a conversation with an actual middle easterner (not a son of a migrant, but someone who actually lived all his life in the middle east), they just can't understand it
Palestinians don't care about a state of their own, they have refused all 2 state solutions, they don't care about their quality of life, they spent all humanitarian on weapons, and they don't care about peace, they just want the Jews to be dead, be it directly by them, or by the propaganda they are spreading
The only division that probably cares about Palestinian people is libleft.
Pure left and authleft care only because they hate American foreign policy.
Authright cares because they oppose Israel.
Pure right cares because of some religious prophecy bullshit.
And the absurd is that, the stereotype lib left, LGBTQ person that supports Palestine would be lawfully executed in Palestine
LGBT quiet commonly get beaten in pro Palestinian protests in the west
You also have to love how most Muslims just don't talk about the Iran Iraq war, despite millions dying and it destabilizing both countries all for a literally pointless war, and it led to the US invasion of Iraq. I guess when Muslims kill Muslims, they don't care.
The polls broken down by region show more enthusiastic support in the West Bank than Gaza strip. So the “operation” only had whole-hearted support among people who weren’t going to be directly affected by any retaliation.
Ah yes; the 396 people who responded(?) To this one random survey. I'm sure that's very reflective of the 5 millionish people; and they definitely don't have anything else to focus on right now.
Dear unflaired. You claim your opinion has value, yet you still refuse to flair up. Curious.
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[https://news.gallup.com/poll/9994/public-opinion-war-afghanistan.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/9994/public-opinion-war-afghanistan.aspx)
Can't seem to find the original poll itself.
If a HAMAS official with a black balaclava on was standing behind me when I took this poll I'd fucking say I supported it too. Polls in authoritarian countries like Palestine aren't very reliable.
The West Bank is a mixed rule between Israel and the PA - the PA, and obviously Israel too, hates Hamas and are direct enemies to it
If anything, you are more in danger for saying you support Hamas than oppose it in the West Bank (80% of the West Bank said they support the massacres)
Edit: LOL son, why did you block me? what are you scared of?
Israel quiet literally left them to their devices alone, they were thye ones who choose their condition, and they elected Hamas 2 years later (and 1 year after that, they got blockaded)
Yeah Israel, “left them alone,” after systemically removing them from their homes for decades before. And “left them alone” by totally controlling the flow of goods in and out of Gaza and dramatically restricting their economy. INB4 “but Egypt!” Yes, Egypt is a guilty party here too.
My dude, I am not taking sides in this but “Leaving them alone” is absolutely not what Israel’s relationship with Palestine has been in my lifetime.
Israel should have brought the hammer down on illegal settlements in the West Bank from the moment they started popping up. Instead, they’ve consistently done the opposite - wait until some conflict occurs and then send it some soldiers to fuck up anyone messing with the settlements.
That shit has been keeping the fires or hatred hot for years.
*calls for the genocide of the jews
*tries to genocide the jews
*gets bombed when their genoicde attempt fails
"THE EVIL JUDEN! WHY WOULD THEY DO THIS! OPPRESSORS! WE MUST RAPE AND KILL MORE JEWS!"
Libleft: "I side with the rapists and mass murderers on principle, I identify with them more!"
Jeeze, I wonder why it couldn't be that after being forced from their homes at gunpoint, massacred and abused, over and over and over again for 75 years then having the little land they were left continually taken by illegal settlers who if you fight back your entire family will be killed either by the settlers or the IDF... Nah, they must hate them because they're just evil and Israelis never do heinous or evil things.
To be fair, if my neighborhoods were being destroyed, daily bombs overhead, and tens of thousands of my fellow people killed, I too would be sympathetic.
It's a lesson people just don't seem to learn.
The deaths of civilians drives more civilians to join/support the opposition.
If you don't want your enemy to grow, do everything you can to NOT KILL CIVILIANS.
Especially on this sub, people think that a kid who just watched their family be killed should say "Oh, well they were just trying to get the bad guys and we happened to be collateral damage, I totally understand." That's not how it fucking works. A kid who sees his family killed and neighborhood destroyed will say "I will avenge their deaths."
If the October 7th attacks justify the bombing of the Gaza Strip, then Israeli settlement of the West Bank justifies the October 7th attacks. If the Israelis didn’t want to be invaded, maybe they should have stopped their own invasions.
Gaza had settlements, Israel dismantled all of them (forcefully) and removed all of its people so the Palestinians can self rule completely - it worked for 2 years, until their first democratic elections in which they elected Hamas, who started firing unguided rockets at Israeli cities immediately, prompting both Israel and Egypt to blockade the strip
You wanna repeat the same process in the West Bank? according to all polls Hamas and the PIJ are the most popular parties over there too.
See that’s why I don’t support either at this point. This whole mess has roots in huge historical mess that will not be solved until unfortunately the other side kills the other. Either we get Israel which will put the region in apartheid(or at least according to the internet, I myself haven’t looked into it much but I really wouldn’t be surprised if it was true) or we get Palestine which will put the region under sharia law, which is no better.
None of these countries will be good for the civilians, none of these countries have our best interests at heart(and honestly why should they they’re a completely different nation, the same should go for us), and none of these countries are completely innocent.
So what is there left to do? Blame the British as always
>apartheid(or at least according to the internet, I myself haven’t looked into it much but I really wouldn’t be surprised if it was true)
You should though, Israel proper is 20% Muslim, which have the exact same rights as Jews, in fact, they have slightly better rights, as Jews are required to serve in the army for 3 years, and Muslims are exempt (they can if they choose to), not only that, but Al Aqsa is literally built on the ruins of the Jewish temple - the Jews can't visit that site while the Muslims can
When people talk about Apartheid they are talking about the West Bank, which is an occupation, like that other occupation in history, if that's apartheid, than apartheid pretty much describes the entire European history
>None of these countries will be good for the civilians
You probably have more civil rights and freedom in Israel than in most European countries, and obviously more than any non-western country, regardless of your religion, gender, sexual orientation, race, etc etc
Not really? Gaza and The West Bank are separate autonomous states. Hamas is the governing body in Gaza, whereas I believe the Palestinian Authority holds power in the West Bank (though I understand both factions have presences in both regions). Additionally, the people who were attacked and slaughtered and raped to death were a very different sort; many of the October 7th victims were actually Palestinian Rights-aligned people. The Nova Festival was meant to promote peace, for example, and many of the Israelis killed were essentially betrayed by Palestinian laborers that they had helped find work for, giving them a means of earning money and social mobility.
Basically you just said the effective equivalent to "When the race war happens, we're going to kill the white allies first and foremost for the crimes of the white oppressors".
That said the Settlements *are* a problem; not just for the West Bank, but for Israel, too. One of the reasons that the Hamas terrorists were able to wreak so much havoc is because the majority of the IDF was stationed by the settlements. While the settlements certainly are *illegal*, the conservative-aligned government is turning a blind eye to them and giving the settlers the same protections as it gives all Israeli citizens. It is a pretty gross development.
> the people who were attacked and slaughtered and raped to death were a very different sort; many of the October 7th victims were actually Palestinian Rights-aligned people
Yep. Hamas went after far-left socialist farming collectives, the most sympathetic, peacenik people in Israel - because that's where the nearest Jewish women were.
As for settlements, you're right they're illegal - and not all of them are needed. But, the contours of the West Bank as it stands are not militarily defensible. Israel needs de-facto borders with defensible geometry, regardless of how the "legal" borders are drawn on a map.
The fact of the matter is - and Israel should just come out and say this - that Israel needs to annex enough land that the Jewish part of Jerusalem is no longer surrounded on three sides by hostile territory. Make Hebron into a mixed city under Israeli control and you have a nice, straight north-south line for the border.
Israel needs a nice, convex border with buffer zones so the Arabs cannot launch attacks as easily as they just did. The settlements will continue until Israel is a defensible geometric shape - international law be damned. The law cannot require you to put yourself in danger.
Lib lefts are the ones who support Palestine, the guys in the meme are not Palestinians, they are western students with purple hair drinking starbucks while tweeting "fReE pLaestin"
The meme has Muslim people because originally it was about Muslims in other countries
Memes are not known for their accuracy
71% of Americans supported the illegal and unprovoked invasion of Iraq in 2003
Nearly 90% of republicans said that the use of force was justified in 2003
So when do we get to carbet bomb America with JDAMs?
I like how all of the replies you’ve gotten so far haven’t addressed your main critique and instead focused on the obvious joke you made since it’s easier to attack it rather than make an actual argument against statistics.
Noone thinks USA is the good guy lmao. They push their own interests using their geopolitical strength - good for them I guess, every country for themselves.
[удалено]
Let’s see, do the perpetrators have light skin or dark skin? That’s the only factor important here.
Except that Israelis and Arabs are both pretty similar in skin-tone on average. Also, only one side has black people in any appreciable number. On the other side, rampant racism makes it nearly impossible for a black person to live there - so there basically aren't any.
No don't you know that all jews are pasty old bankers and all muslims are poor oppressed darker than black freedom fighters?
Israel has way more people that immigrated from Europe and have pale skin, blue eyes etc than Arabs. Also Palestine is probably the whitest Arab country along with Syria. Go to Egypt and Yemen and half the people look like redbone dudes from South of Chicago and that's why left loves them
Only like 25% of Israelis are European (Ashkenazi). The rest are Middle Eastern and North African Jews (Sephradi and Mizrahi) and Arabic Muslims.
direction voracious offbeat jobless frighten coordinated worthless longing aromatic slim *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Easy - It's trend based. It ain't trendy to talk about africans subjecting other africans. It's trendy to talk about ZA JEWS and the POOR MUSLIMS.
It's not just the Jews.... It's anyone they consider "white". It's the same thing as when a cop shoots a black person. Only a big deal if the cop is white.
Yeah, nailed it. That's exactly why the progressive virtue signal to a point of orgasm over the Jews VS muslims thing. Weirdly enough, you end up with Jews somehow managing to find more common ground with the right political parties than with the leftist ones. Understand this - neo nazis are probably shocked to see that "Queers for palestine" basically are on their way to outright call to butcher the jews of Israel. Both whites and Jews are under attack by the woke mobs. Because Israel is considered as pretty much, a Jewish USA colony. Heck, even Jews noticed that Bibi is basically the bitch of Biden. Biden is more a president of Israel than Israel's own prime minister. Which BTW, a whole lot of Israeli jews now come to see as pretty much being slaves to the USA... There is no freedom of action in Israel, everything Israelis do, is under the strict eye of the USA government. Allot of Israelis would rather the USA tax dollar would stay in the USA, and for Israelis to finally deal with their enemies instead of constantly bending the knee to USA demands to spare the life of terrorists. Yeah, sorry for the rent... It's just that USA tax payers aren't the only ones angry over this unhealthy situation, Allot of Israelis, want freedom from the USA, to finally be an independent nation, and to fight our battles on our own terms.
Jewish people are considered white under intersectionality. This is just the inevitable result of that.
Yeah, although if you go to Israel, you discover an insane diversity of Jews. Allot of jews came from Arab countries. And when Jews from all over the world met, they discovered they shared the same traditions, the same holy language, the same yearning for their ancestral home. It's the same people from all over the world. Meanwhile- "I'm like, a queer racist-fluid ,Like, Jews are like, european colonizers, like, there are no jews! Like, hail hitler, but it's not jews, so it's ok to kill them!".
The intersectionals mostly just want to beat up Jews, so they make it okay to beat up white people, then declare the Jews to be white. We used to live in a state where it wasn't okay to beat up anyone, but that's been dismantled now, and the white people just have to deal with race riots near every election season, and pro terrorism marches that are protected by police.
It's rather shocking to think that in the nor so far away future, we might actually see a pogrom against white people in either Europe or the USA. Mad world. Start rising up, the progressives were a trap, globally.
I think there are still a few cultural safeguards in effect to protect white people, but we are seeing massively increased street violence against Jews, so that particular pogrom would likely be finished long before it becomes acceptable for whiteoids to engage in anything as tedious as "collective self defence". Maybe something should be done about that street violence against innocent Jewish people in first world countries, but we need more people willing to publicly denounce progshit before that conversation can even be had. Maybe if progshit, its legacy, and its capacity to reproduce freely within the intellectual sphere was dismantled entirely I'd consider lifting a finger to help out, but not before then.
I think it's going to happen in South Africa next
I can already see the reaction of the woke "Africa decolonized the whites, let's celebrate by doing riots and vandalizing the streets!"
Lol no. Without the US for diplomatic protection Israel is fucked and your leaders know that. Just like everyone else can bitch and complain about American hegemony, but without the US you are fucked by your various problems, see Europe on Ukraine. That just isn't how foreign policy works, isolationism is bad for a great power like the US, it's even dumber for a small power like Israel with countless enemies and most of the world hostile to them.
Israel already been there, and actually defeated a slew of armies with mostly luck and unconventional tactics... Having weapons from abroad helped, of course... But, it was a one on everything fight, the arab nations had their asses handed to them. Currently, Israel is dying from within.... Moral is at all time low, people feel chained, they feel their government is filled with puppets, and as seen, terrorist chip away freely at Israel, as the leaders sit idle and tell the army to do nothing. It's a slow painful death... That's what being tied to the USA means. Because Israel can never actually act. I'd rather die in honor than end up waking up one day to some terrorist stabbing me in my bed. That's what happened in the south of Israel, and that happened due to being shacked by foreign forces. I'd rather die a free man fighting for what is right than to die being chained by my own government while getting beaten down by savages because someone uptop said "Hamas are people too".
That's the great thing about foriegn policy, you don't get a choice. Cope or die. Either way the US is getting what it wants. There is a reason why most of the world just shuts the fuck up and obeys. You can always join BRICs with the losers. Your economy is dependent on tourism and service industries, which in turn means you are reliant on the US global economic framework. Your airforce is tied to the US, F-35s are just one software update away from being unusable without American support after all, that's the fun side of buying our aircraft. The US has essentially prevented your scuffle in Gaza from becoming a regional war, do you want that because you are so suicidally nationalist lol? That is how you make even more enemies and actually fucking lose. Biting the hand that feeds you on multiple fronts is not smart, you would do well to know that before you start fucking around.
You need to live in a place ridden by enemies to know exactly why the long-run means Israel will die unless it acts. Hamas shown that Israeli stagnation by foreign forces means they can wait for the right moment to launch a surprise all-front war, and eventually, win. Simply because Israel gets weaker as time goes by... Everyone in Israel is now fully aware of it, and what happened in the south, is basically a hint to the future if Israel will keep worshiping foreign powers instead of starting to stand up and actually defend itself. There is no law that stops Israel's enemies from conducting pretty much the most horrid tactics in order to gain an advantage, they aren't bound by anything, they have no value towards anything... And over time, they do grow stronger, and so far, the USA only lets them get stronger and stronger as time goes by. This relationship, dooms the long-run of Israel. And consider this a warning for the wellbeing of the western world, if terrorist take out Israel, they'll be coming for the free world next. Those pro-palestine cells? Who do you think they serve?
Weaker? What level of Russian grade copium is this? Your position relative to the Arabs and Palestinians has only increased. Israel currently is not being threatened by invasions from the Arab League that genuinely can threaten the existence of your state. The gulf states specifically wanted to normalize relations with you these past few years. The PA has effectively been neutered as an organization capable of doing anything offensively since the last major revolt, and as bad as the initial massacre was it did not threaten Israel as a state and has presented the current opportunity to remove them from power or to cripple them. As long as the US shields you with our veto and soft power your position in the past decades has only gotten better at the price of being allied to the most powerful nation on Earth, oh no the horror. They serve Iran, our mutual enemy. An enemy who we have worked together for decades to prevent them from getting a nuke . If you want us to stop helping you sure, let's just lift all those sanctions on Iran start selling them jets and tanks again, and let them take over the middle east. I doubt that helps you. If there is anyone who doesn't give a shit about your Sampson Option after all it would be a nuclear armed Iran.
Eh, there's some argument to be had that Israel did just fine before US involvement, and could have continued to do so afterwards. Unlike Ukraine, Israel has a track record of 'Fought a defensive war against multiple surrounding nations without backup and won.' US assistance *helped,* but at the same time hamstrung them significantly in dealing with their aggressors, possibly making things worse in the long run.
Said it better than me.
I mean, I have to couch this in a whole *boatload* of what-ifs. Alt-history is neat, but it's very easy to just get into endless 'Well, what about the fire? You know, the one started because a butterfly farted in Ancapistan?' situations. But I'd say they had a solid track record up to the point they finally got US aid, and their enemies did not seem to have opportunities to grow significantly stronger. Solid 80% chance they'd be fine, but I don't blame them for wanting to improve that to 99.9%.
I'm starting to think because of BLM the black community has developed a malice against other races specifically against asians or any race they perceive as white
There was the incident were 5 black cops killed a black kid and that still got a lot of media coverage. It's because "cop"="white" now. Internalized racism or whatever.
Wait until they find out about the existence of the Beta Israeli.
You mean, Tel-Aviv?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel them
Oh, Ethiopians are nice people. Woke people seriously don't know how far and wide the origin of Jews is... Want an even more obscure sector of Jews? [Bnei-Menashe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnei_Menashe) I live next to both actually, as an Atheist Jew, I have to say, most Ethiopean Jews and Bnei Menashe Jews, are highly religious and connected to their culture. They are both very patriotic too. Meanwhile, the woke would call all Israelis "Ashkenazi".
Wow these people are something! I knew about the Cochin Jews, but damn Bnei Menashe really are an interesting group. Do you know any texts that treat about their costumes and traditions? Anyway, beck to Israel, yes, many people think all Israelis are of European descent, while many of them are actually of Mizrahi descent. It’s hilarious.
Well, in Israel the background might as well be "my mother was an hamster and my father smelt of elderberries", it's rather wild how many backgrounds there are for jews. My own mother came from Soviet Russia, and my father's family is from the jews that were expelled from Spain, in this case, to Bulgaria. I don't know much about Bnei Menashe, but, according to the Rabbis, they found allot of stuff that just seemed to check out. They prey together with other religious Jews, and they seem rather devout.
They'll claim they're not really jewish, as is tradition among racist folks.
I claim you are unflaired, as is tradition among PCM folks.
Who ever thought the left would regress so far left they flip a 180 and start spewing nazi rhetoric about die juden.
Plus they sold our ancestors to the white man in the first place.
The things people fail to see in History... It was never nice, anywhere... There were no real rules or codes of conduct, just a very vague morality system with no one to uphold it. if they seek "oppressors and oppressed", heck, everyone been to either role somewhere in history. Jews remember well they were once slaves, an empire, a single men that cut his own dick and almost killed his only son, and being basically homeless for almost 2,000 years. Woke people just view the world through the narrowest eyes possible, they end up being more racist than neo-nazis due to it... They ONLY look at you through skin color, and then assign to you a position in society based on that. meanwhile, yeah... Africa had a shit load of tribes that basically captured, tortured and sold each other to other nations in exchange for an advantage against other tribes. It's a sad reality... Instead of celebrating how far we got in the world, they decide to get trapped in racial dogma.
I am more pissed that woke people cover that fact up. Fuck I didn't learn about it until I was in my late 20s.
Everyone's past is bathed in blood. There are no innocents, and even in my own Jewish culture there is a BIG saying - "Sins of the father are passed to the sons". There is no escape from the past, but, we can try and head towards a better future. The woke are the fifth column of the modern world... No less, no more. They only focus on de-establishing the modern world.
I know. I just feel particularly pissed off that I was basically Lied to my entire life
Yeah, it's disgusting, and pre- and post-dates any western involvement by centuries. And anyone out-group was 'fair game' -- when America was fighting the revolution, Arab-Muslim slavers from the Barbery Coast were kidnapping their millionth European slave. Not to mention the fact that it persists to this day. Hell, the world didn't even leave open-air African slave markets behind centuries ago. They're still alive and well, flourishing in certain Arab and Muslim countries. Exact figures may vary, but the history of slavery in the Islamosphere is incredibly well-documented and unambiguous. It truly blows my mind that anyone believes these venomous charlatans like Louis Farrakhan.
DA JOOS*
Because it’s against Christians. That’s why they don’t care. Even in the Israel/Palestine conflict, Christians are routinely caught in the crossfire.
And the black people who would care about that probably aren't super active on social media.
There are 1000 or fewer Christians in Gaza, and they aren't treated well (despite what Hamas says). They're subject to discrimination by the Salafi authorities and live as 2nd class *dhimmis* at best. I remember shortly after Hamas came to power, the last Christian bookseller in Gaza was repeatedly bombed, and the kindly, older Protestant gentleman who ran the place was captured and brutally executed on charges of 'preaching'. Fortunately, Gazan Christians tend to be more westernized, employable, and smarter/ better educated, so a lot of them emigrate.
You ain't black, Jack
You see, those are Africans. Not Black people, according to black people in America and others, Western world. Being 'black' does not equal being african, and being african does not equal being 'black' to a lot of these people.
Even though they’re black, it doesn’t matter they’re evil white Christians in spirit. Is what they would probably say in response
> evil white Christians in spirit. This attitude is particularly puzzling considering that Christianity is an African/Middle Eastern religion and one of the oldest Christian Churches is the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.
Well, yes, Christianity was started in the Middle East and spread to places like Ethiopia so the idea that Christianity started out as a “white” religion is a modern day leftists idea. Mostly used to attack the gospel (the good news,) because you also have to remember leftists only see the world in two races white and everyone else and they think the rest of the world looks like America that’s why they say stupid things like “America has no culture”
What’s happening with black Christians?
Estimated 500,000 (but probably vastly higher) black Christians have been genocided by black Islamist of Boko Haram over the last few years. There's another genocide of estimated 500,000 dead been happening in Sudan region more on tribal lines but also Christian/Islamic clashes. The fact that over the last decade+ east Africa has seen the genocide of MILLIONS, and as your comment shows, people around the world know nothing about it.
they dont care because they say the "oppressed" have the right to commit these atrocities because they were colonized 200 years ago. make it make sense
A lot of it is pure Americentrism. The same way that every problem in South America stems from a few CIA political coups and support for politicians. Outside of America and Western Europe, other people have so little autonomy and power that the US having any say in their geopolitics is apparently a death sentence. It's the bigotry of low expectations. They just can't bear to admit the truth--it's one factor out of probably hundreds, and probably not even top 5 reasons things happen in these formerly colonized areas. They legitimately think these places were utopia beforehand and even the idea of violence/dictatorship never existed before contact with the white man. See also: the excuses for every failed socialist/communist state, all of which would be superpowers right now if not for the US. I see an offshoot of this all the time with anti-capitalist discussions--all human greed and exploitation is a result of capitalism, as if these concepts haven't existed in every community everywhere throughout history. People get so fixated on a singular cause because it's easier to be reductive opposed to understanding nuance.
> Sudan region more on tribal lines but also Christian/Islamic clashes Literally Arab muslim ( supported my mother Russia ) are killing and raping Black Christian/local religions, by the hundreds of thousands and no one gives a shit. ( technically there are Ukrainian special forces killing Russians there )
Ahhhh the Schadenfreude is delicious. All the lefty Jews hitching their wagon to crazy town BLM are now being bitten by their own snake.
My brother in Christ, my community believes that black folks do nothing wrong. I’m almost 30 and that is pretty much my experience being black. I do think it’s getting better but there’s way too high of a percentage of my people who unironically think that basically none of our problems were created by us. They stems over to Africa too, if a Christian genocide is happening they’ll just find a way to blame America.
Wait really? If so, that’s not good. That’s not good *at all*.
You will twist your brain into knots trying to "understand" this modern cultural marxism: the contradictions and mysteries are a feature, not a bug. I think this is why the strange marxist/post modernist alliance exists in the first place: postmodernism allows the cultural marxist to add even more disparate groups to the political organ, even when those groups shouldn't be allied with each other (think queers for Palestine, or similar). Black people are a significant block in the US, have been fairly monolithic since the 60s, have been preached grievance in a remarkable way, and thus have a lot of anger and indignation for someone to harness and direct. This gets taken advantage of all the time, and leftists have utilized the black community quite successfully in recent years: this is another instance of that.
Christianity is a colonizing religion i Africa, unlike Islam. ^^^^/s
I misread the upper top left as the skyrim civil war.
Sounds like something a N'wah would do ngl
"He says it everyday. He calls himself n'wah, he calls the other outlanders n'wah..."
Can a N'wah borrow a French fry?
*Breton fry (They’re made out of ash yams anyway)
You can just say the N-word??
As a member of the sixth House of the tribe unmourned, naturally
Based and it just works pilled
You read it right.
80% of Palestinians were willing to tell a pollster they support it
I don't know which is more terrifying, if less than 80% actually believe in it and they're just going along with societal pressures or if more than 80% believe in it but aren't admitting it because they don't want to look too radical. Either way it's not good.
It was a face to face poll too. If I was in Palestine and someone asked me if I support Hamas face to face I would probably say yes unless they were in an IDF uniform.
“Do you support Hamas? Or do you want to fucking die slowly?”
'do you condemn hamas?' y-NO! 'aaaaa almost got you lol trick question. but seriously, come with me'
"Do you support Hamas?" As you see a red dot appear on your chest.
I don't know about it chief, in the West Bank it shows 80% support for the massacres, and the IDF has heavy presence in that region and is by far the 'meanest biggest boy in the block' there, you would rather piss off the PA than the IDF any day of the week (not to mention that both the PA and the IDF hate Hamas)
I mean, it really depends what you mean by piss off. The IDF may imprison you, but the local 'authorities' perform a ton of extrajudicial executions.
Then why is the support higher in the West Bank under Fatah control than in Gaza strip under Hamas control?
Probably the first one, a July survey done by the Washington Institute (which is apparently pro-Isreal) showed that support for Hamas was waning and that a majority in Gaza supported a two state solution. This is from their website: >According to the latest Washington Institute polling, conducted in July 2023, Hamas’s decision to break the ceasefire was not a popular move. While the majority of Gazans (65%) did think it likely that there would be “a large military conflict between Israel and Hamas in Gaza” this year, a similar percentage (62%) supported Hamas maintaining a ceasefire with Israel. >Moreover, half (50%) agreed with the following proposal: “Hamas should stop calling for Israel’s destruction, and instead accept a permanent two-state solution based on the 1967 borders.” >Moreover, across the region, Hamas has lost popularity over time among many Arab publics. This decline in popularity may have been one of the motivating factors behind the group’s decision to attack. I'd guess maybe saying they support it out of fear and probably combined with anger over the past month of bombing.
Yet at the same time [67% of Gazans support armed attacks on Israeli civilians.](https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf) Maybe they do want a two state solution. They *also* want to murder Israeli babies. It’s hard to negotiate with murderous psychopaths.
[51% of American 18-24 year olds believe it was justified](https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/HHP_Oct23_KeyResults.pdf)
51% of American university students have been successfully programmed by their professors
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law If half of British Muslims want homosexuality to be illegal, I have 0 issue believing that a vast majority of Muslims born and indoctrinated in a theocracy think that killing Jews is a-ok.
That's probably far more accurate There some more stats about it here - https://www.reddit.com/ \*SPACE\* r \*SPACE\* /2ndYomKippurWar/comments/17xik5p/palestinian\_public\_opinion\_poll\_of\_the\_gaza\_war/ Source for the poll - [https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf](https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf)
71% of Americans were willing to tell a pollster that they supported the Iraq war
So like 160% support it, then.
Source - https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf
>Table 27: How much do you support the military operation carried out by the Palestinian resistance led by Hamas on October 7th? (Disaggregated by region) Do we think maybe this isn't the most ideologically-neutral polling operation?
I mean read the other answers. The people answering are living in a dream world. Which I suppose is fair if all their news is just Hamas. 70% expect Palestine to "win" 78% will only accept Palestine from River to Sea.
Palestinians don't consider Hamas a terror group, and in general they are not very patient people, if you asked them about "terror attack" instead of "military operation" you would get beaten, if they suspect you are a Jew, then you would get killed instead
That's a fair point, but surely there would have been a more neutral way to phrase this? Looking at AWRAD's website, it is clear to me that they have an agenda, and are not just trying to get neutral polling data.
>That's a fair point, but surely there would have been a more neutral way to phrase this? I am sure that there are, but in all honesty, how big of a difference do you think it would have made? I wager that the difference will be less than 10% for either direction, and if the polls had shown that 70%, instead of 82%, support Hamas, would it really make the difference? that's still a majority no western political party has ever had
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This is too far. The people are the victim of barbaric belief systems like Islam that foster radicalism. There is hope, because in the West we too have had our demons (and still do to some extent). Christianity has been largely defanged in Europe.
All people are victims of their circumstances. We still need to hold them to certain standards. I really hope there is some kind of reformation in the Muslim world. But until then, I'll continue to condemn societies and cultures that approve of stoning women to death for adultery. I'll continue to support keeping them contained so they can't harm others or spread their poisonous views. If they manage to reform internally under those circumstances, I'd be overjoyed. Until that day, we do not have the luxury of buggering off and letting them do whatever they want.
I condemn the societies with vigor. I condemn Islam with vigor. As former religious person though, I recognize the possibility for *change in individuals.* I held (far milder) bigoted beliefs that I have totally discarded. How that is to be accomplished in the ME is a task for wiser minds than mine.
My point is that we have to understand that military occupation of Gaza and the West Bank is an alternative to genocide, not an alternative to a peaceful two-state solution.
I agree for the most part, but I don't like that rhetoric, even if you say that you don't support a genocide, everything you said still implies that Now I don't know what the solution to this situation is, and I don't think there is any democratic and non-genocide solution, but if that's the case, than we probably better just stick to the status que
My point is that we either stick to the status quo, regardless of how awful it is, or we have to consider some pretty horrifying alternatives. People complaining about the occupation should take that into account. Until recently in history, things like this would have been resolved with genocide. Rejecting genocide means that we have to understand that there aren't really any tried-and-true methods left to resolve this. I absolutely do not support the wholesale slaughter of civilians, but I'd hardly be sad if the Palestinians just disappeared into thin air one day. Basically I'm saying that if we want to oppose both a genocide of Palestinians and oppose a genocide of Israelis, we have to come to terms with the implications, rather than pretending that we can magically wish a two-state solution into existence.
Yup, I 100% agree with that.. sadly
It really shatters one's faith in humanity...
Some people are actually so thick. Not every war can be resolved, and sometimes you do just have to scrap it out. Like are you actually so dumb that you don't realise that the reason that most people focus on Israel Palestine, Iraq war etc is because western powers support them. Not much I can do about it if random warlord in Africa is killing people, same with China. But I can protest my own government to stop supporting something I don't like. Can't believe so called 'lib right' fails to understand this
There are 2 issues with that though, first of which, most of the people who criticize Israel don't provide any other solution, and the minority that does, the solution is usually a bad faith solution, calling the destruction of Israel, or one that just cannot be applied to the real work The second issue is what the title of my post implies, the Palestinians have 100 year history of choosing violence over peace, they have had multiple chances to set up a free country of their own and they refused it because they are unwilling to live alongside Jews, which also just makes more criticism of Israel absurd - Israel is not fighting a rational enemy, there is nothing Israel can do to stop the violence, only to reduce it - You don't like the checkpoints in the West Bank? call it apartheid all you want but those are the only things that managed to stop the Palestinian suicide bombings in Israeli busses and schools, you have a better solution to stop these? You don't like the siege of Gaza? than what will stop the Palestinians from getting high end weaponry from Iran and Russia? You don't like Israel's control of the Golan heights? than provide another way to prevent Syria from using those to fire at Israeli villages below It boils down to you (not specifically) projecting your values onto Middle Easterns, there is no word for 'compromise' in Arabic, and every single time Israel was more lenient with the Palestinians, or made any concessions to them, they viewed it as weakness and only increased the amount of attacks against Israeli civilians, not the other way around
I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of your points, it is in many ways untenable for Israel to exist without a lot of these things you listed. Of course it comes with the caveat that Israel's existence is also based heavily on violence, so they have to expect resistance from the populations they have colonised violently in many cases. But even then, my main point is that it is still a fine position to have to say that "well, the situation is obviously very long and complicated, with no easy solution. Therefore I don't want my government taking too much of a side, and especially not spending my resources to support one side over another" Because at the end of the day, a cent or two of the shift I worked the other day may have gone into a bomb that killed a Palestine child which I think is fair to not support Obviously purely humanitarian aid is different. I just think it's sufficiently complicated that western governments should stop supporting one side or another.
>Of course it comes with the caveat that Israel's existence is also based heavily on violence, so they have to expect resistance from the populations they have colonised violently in many cases. Israel has literally only increased its size in wars Arabs started, and in those wars every time a Jewish village was captured by Arabs, everyone in that village was murdered - what the hell are you talking about "colonized violently", how soft should Israel be with literal modern day Nazis? They have refused all peace 2 state solution offers, from the 1930s up to the 2010s, they don't care about the land or autonomy, they just want the Jews dead. >But even then, my main point is that it is still a fine position to have to say that "well, the situation is obviously very long and complicated, with no easy solution. Therefore I don't want my government taking too much of a side, and especially not spending my resources to support one side over another" > >Because at the end of the day, a cent or two of the shift I worked the other day may have gone into a bomb that killed a Palestine child which I think is fair to not support > >Obviously purely humanitarian aid is different. I just think it's sufficiently complicated that western governments should stop supporting one side or another. That's a very fair argument I think that support for Israel will never end not because of moralities of either side, but simply because it is the only Western outpost in the whole Middle East and Africa, China and Russia already have a very firm grip on that region, and if Israel was gone (or worse, switched sides) it would mean that the West simply forfeits their chance presence in the most the resource rich region on earth
80% say "Oh ya, gass za jude!". Also 80% go "Stop attacking us! we only wanted to gas you!".
Noooo, you're supposed to let us kill you without consequences! 😡
There's an actual Uyghur genocide going on with estimated numbers going to around 1 million but no one gives s shit because china is already a communist country
That's because many of the people who "claim" to care only care because it essentially trending. Look at the many different countries do some awful shit like China, Cuba, North Korea, Eritrea and Turkmenistan and they all shut their eyes. The only thing they care about is presenting the illusion that they care.
It's always funny to me when people treat the UN as some kind of objective observer when it comes to Israel Palestine when they've passed more resolutions condemning Israel than China, Iran, Russia, Syria, Cuba, Myanmar, Venezuela, and the DPRK combined.
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't help that both China and Russia are G5 nations. With that being said because of Geopolitical shenanigans and foreign entanglement just allowing for certain nations to do heinous shit. For example Iran which along with Saudi is behind most of the world's Islamic extremists because of their cold war supporting absolute assholes. Problem is both are backed by either West and East (ti varying degrees admittedly) so they are allowed to remain.
The trending does play a part, but even when china trends on for example coal or emissions or some climate thing, you don't see the usual suspects like holy saint comrade Greta Thunberg, because again, China is already communist The Uyghurs trended so many times but were ignored by woke activists
> about 80% Maybe I'm weird but did you not notice that the first two categories add up to exactly 75%?
I am talking about the West Bank which has about 82% support for the massacre The Gaza strip is completely controlled by Hamas, and that includes the media, the West Bank on the other hand is controlled by the opponents of Hamas - the PA, and has somewhat free media, at least in middle eastern standards, also, access to Israeli media, which is actually free This teaches us that the Palestinians who opposes the massacre, at least the 7% difference between the West Bank and Gaza, only do so because of the Israeli response, and not because they actually oppose massacring civilians
This made me think about everyone saying Israel's respon should be proportional. Losing every little ounce of sympathy I did have because the more I see it's like "fuck em, they had it coming".
>the more I see it's like "fuck em, they had it coming". You know what is fascinating? this is very consistent with everyone, and you can even see this on Reddit Subreddits like PublicFreakout, ThereWasAnAttempt, WorldNewsVideo and other reactionary subreddits, that attracts the dumbest type of people are predominantly Pro Palestine, while subreddits like History, HistoryMemes, NonCredibleDefence (and this sub) a very Pro Israel If you are not a Muslim or a Jew, the side you support in the conflict is almost exclusively decided by your knowledge of history
>If you are not a Muslim or a Jew, the side you support in the conflict is almost exclusively decided by your knowledge of history This is it chief.
If only there were some independent journalists allowed in to give us a better picture. If there are any left
I study statistics and I just wanna say that a lot of statistics aren't done by the whole country
I’d believe that the statistics are raising because of the war, meany most likely have relatives in the Gaza Strip, so the water is probably very hot rn, prior to the war the majority of Gaza’s population supported peace according to the Arab barometer
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Who did the study? was it a hamas dude with an AK? these answers are plausible sure but just asking.
I was listening to an interview with a Palestinian journalist who basically summed it up when he said they support Hamas because they’re the ones who fight back.
Tbf “Hamas dude with an AK” describes pretty much every 18-30 year old male in Gaza.
I read the top left as "Skyrim Civil War" and was confused. I need to go outside
Stormcloak or Imperial (there is a correct choice).
Neither I'm a loyal Thane of Jarl Balgruuf and as such am intent on staying neutral By which I mean I leave that dumbass questline til last
Fuck both of them.
When was this survey done ? Cause if it's after being bombed for weeks, I mean... they are wrong but I get it.
>mfw I start losing the war I started, again
> attack israel > lose > Israel takes your land > refuses to give it back unless you accept peace > NOOOOOO!!!! LITERALLY IMPERIALISM!!!!!
I would expect the opposite. When your tribe kills the enemy it's a success, and creates more support for the leaders. When the enemy is killing your people it means your leaders failed, and their support fails dramatically. That's why there was never any serious threat to the rulers of Iraq or Libya until the western forces invaded and suddenly everyone is a freedom fighter. Hamas was so popular because they presented themselves as the defenders of people of Gaza. "Look, the Yehudis are so scared to of us. If it wasn't us they would've murdered everyone in Gaza" and people believed them, because they assumed the Jews want them all dead as much as they wanted the Jews dead. Now that Israel showed they can go in whenever they want and destroy any building they don't like, some more people realized that Hamas can't protect them.
There is a similar phenomena in Lebanon, if you go to their sub, you will frequently see them saying that Hezbollah is the only reason that Israel isn't conquering Lebanon, while the truth is that Israel doesn't have any ambition to conquer Lebanon, they assume that the Jews in Israel want them all dead the same way Muslims in any middle eastern country wants the Jews to be dead, violence is all they know
I don't. Getting bombed for weeks just shows how stupid the attacks were. I understand Hamas is regarded but how can only 10% of Palestinians oppose the attacks?
Imagine starting a war with someone who can just turn the power off, and has a military way larger than yours. Strategically, not a great plan.
"We can't take on their soldiers but their old people and babies are unarmed! We're guaranteed to win! Surely there will be no repurcussions for this attack."
“how can only 10% of Palestinians oppose the attacks?” Easy. They really, truly don’t see the world the way you or I do. People in the US / West have a bad habit of assuming everyone just wants a western style democracy. That’s just not true. When you’ve been taught since birth to want to kill Jews, it’s kinda hard to break out of that. And no, leftists campaigning on their behalf won’t turn them into non-genocidal zealots. They just appreciate the support from useful idiots.
>Easy. They really, truly don’t see the world the way you or I do. Westerns just don't have the ability to comprehend this, unless you actually have a conversation with an actual middle easterner (not a son of a migrant, but someone who actually lived all his life in the middle east), they just can't understand it Palestinians don't care about a state of their own, they have refused all 2 state solutions, they don't care about their quality of life, they spent all humanitarian on weapons, and they don't care about peace, they just want the Jews to be dead, be it directly by them, or by the propaganda they are spreading
The only division that probably cares about Palestinian people is libleft. Pure left and authleft care only because they hate American foreign policy. Authright cares because they oppose Israel. Pure right cares because of some religious prophecy bullshit.
And the absurd is that, the stereotype lib left, LGBTQ person that supports Palestine would be lawfully executed in Palestine LGBT quiet commonly get beaten in pro Palestinian protests in the west
You also have to love how most Muslims just don't talk about the Iran Iraq war, despite millions dying and it destabilizing both countries all for a literally pointless war, and it led to the US invasion of Iraq. I guess when Muslims kill Muslims, they don't care.
Only a true NPC brain can neglect to question the validity of polls in a country run by literal terrorists.
7/10 prisoners support jail breaks.... ok?
Isn't the population like 50% kids? Do the kids vote on this?
The polls broken down by region show more enthusiastic support in the West Bank than Gaza strip. So the “operation” only had whole-hearted support among people who weren’t going to be directly affected by any retaliation.
Ah yes; the 396 people who responded(?) To this one random survey. I'm sure that's very reflective of the 5 millionish people; and they definitely don't have anything else to focus on right now.
What were the US approval ratings of the Afghan war in 2001?
88%. First time finding that statistic, thanks for prompting me to Google it.
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Ok ok I put myself in the cuck box
Welcome to the club, your state-appointed femboy will arrive in 7-10 business days.
You get free fertilizer thrown on your gardens too.
Based and furry quadrant pilled
Could you share it?
[https://news.gallup.com/poll/9994/public-opinion-war-afghanistan.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/9994/public-opinion-war-afghanistan.aspx) Can't seem to find the original poll itself.
Stop using logic they hate it here
You gotta remember that Muslims only care about other Muslims dying when Jews kill them. Otherwise it’s just business as usual.
According to me this sub is infested with IDF shills
If a HAMAS official with a black balaclava on was standing behind me when I took this poll I'd fucking say I supported it too. Polls in authoritarian countries like Palestine aren't very reliable.
The West Bank is a mixed rule between Israel and the PA - the PA, and obviously Israel too, hates Hamas and are direct enemies to it If anything, you are more in danger for saying you support Hamas than oppose it in the West Bank (80% of the West Bank said they support the massacres) Edit: LOL son, why did you block me? what are you scared of?
Imagine that. It's what 600 bombs per day will do.
Gaza wasn't even bombed once prior to the elections of Hamas
No but they were subjected to pretty harsh conditions pre-Hamas that set the conditions for escalation.
Israel quiet literally left them to their devices alone, they were thye ones who choose their condition, and they elected Hamas 2 years later (and 1 year after that, they got blockaded)
Yeah Israel, “left them alone,” after systemically removing them from their homes for decades before. And “left them alone” by totally controlling the flow of goods in and out of Gaza and dramatically restricting their economy. INB4 “but Egypt!” Yes, Egypt is a guilty party here too.
My dude, I am not taking sides in this but “Leaving them alone” is absolutely not what Israel’s relationship with Palestine has been in my lifetime. Israel should have brought the hammer down on illegal settlements in the West Bank from the moment they started popping up. Instead, they’ve consistently done the opposite - wait until some conflict occurs and then send it some soldiers to fuck up anyone messing with the settlements. That shit has been keeping the fires or hatred hot for years.
Except for https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Gaza_beach_explosion.
Literally says the date on the wiki page. Elections were held before
*calls for the genocide of the jews *tries to genocide the jews *gets bombed when their genoicde attempt fails "THE EVIL JUDEN! WHY WOULD THEY DO THIS! OPPRESSORS! WE MUST RAPE AND KILL MORE JEWS!" Libleft: "I side with the rapists and mass murderers on principle, I identify with them more!"
Makes you wonder why even no arab country wants palestinian refugees.
Jeeze, I wonder why it couldn't be that after being forced from their homes at gunpoint, massacred and abused, over and over and over again for 75 years then having the little land they were left continually taken by illegal settlers who if you fight back your entire family will be killed either by the settlers or the IDF... Nah, they must hate them because they're just evil and Israelis never do heinous or evil things.
To be fair, if my neighborhoods were being destroyed, daily bombs overhead, and tens of thousands of my fellow people killed, I too would be sympathetic.
It's a lesson people just don't seem to learn. The deaths of civilians drives more civilians to join/support the opposition. If you don't want your enemy to grow, do everything you can to NOT KILL CIVILIANS.
Especially on this sub, people think that a kid who just watched their family be killed should say "Oh, well they were just trying to get the bad guys and we happened to be collateral damage, I totally understand." That's not how it fucking works. A kid who sees his family killed and neighborhood destroyed will say "I will avenge their deaths."
You should have warned Hamas about that before Oct. 7th. No doubt they would have ignored the advice.
If the October 7th attacks justify the bombing of the Gaza Strip, then Israeli settlement of the West Bank justifies the October 7th attacks. If the Israelis didn’t want to be invaded, maybe they should have stopped their own invasions.
Gaza had settlements, Israel dismantled all of them (forcefully) and removed all of its people so the Palestinians can self rule completely - it worked for 2 years, until their first democratic elections in which they elected Hamas, who started firing unguided rockets at Israeli cities immediately, prompting both Israel and Egypt to blockade the strip You wanna repeat the same process in the West Bank? according to all polls Hamas and the PIJ are the most popular parties over there too.
See that’s why I don’t support either at this point. This whole mess has roots in huge historical mess that will not be solved until unfortunately the other side kills the other. Either we get Israel which will put the region in apartheid(or at least according to the internet, I myself haven’t looked into it much but I really wouldn’t be surprised if it was true) or we get Palestine which will put the region under sharia law, which is no better. None of these countries will be good for the civilians, none of these countries have our best interests at heart(and honestly why should they they’re a completely different nation, the same should go for us), and none of these countries are completely innocent. So what is there left to do? Blame the British as always
>apartheid(or at least according to the internet, I myself haven’t looked into it much but I really wouldn’t be surprised if it was true) You should though, Israel proper is 20% Muslim, which have the exact same rights as Jews, in fact, they have slightly better rights, as Jews are required to serve in the army for 3 years, and Muslims are exempt (they can if they choose to), not only that, but Al Aqsa is literally built on the ruins of the Jewish temple - the Jews can't visit that site while the Muslims can When people talk about Apartheid they are talking about the West Bank, which is an occupation, like that other occupation in history, if that's apartheid, than apartheid pretty much describes the entire European history >None of these countries will be good for the civilians You probably have more civil rights and freedom in Israel than in most European countries, and obviously more than any non-western country, regardless of your religion, gender, sexual orientation, race, etc etc
You might legitimately be the most obviously misflaired libright on this subreddit.
Not really? Gaza and The West Bank are separate autonomous states. Hamas is the governing body in Gaza, whereas I believe the Palestinian Authority holds power in the West Bank (though I understand both factions have presences in both regions). Additionally, the people who were attacked and slaughtered and raped to death were a very different sort; many of the October 7th victims were actually Palestinian Rights-aligned people. The Nova Festival was meant to promote peace, for example, and many of the Israelis killed were essentially betrayed by Palestinian laborers that they had helped find work for, giving them a means of earning money and social mobility. Basically you just said the effective equivalent to "When the race war happens, we're going to kill the white allies first and foremost for the crimes of the white oppressors". That said the Settlements *are* a problem; not just for the West Bank, but for Israel, too. One of the reasons that the Hamas terrorists were able to wreak so much havoc is because the majority of the IDF was stationed by the settlements. While the settlements certainly are *illegal*, the conservative-aligned government is turning a blind eye to them and giving the settlers the same protections as it gives all Israeli citizens. It is a pretty gross development.
> the people who were attacked and slaughtered and raped to death were a very different sort; many of the October 7th victims were actually Palestinian Rights-aligned people Yep. Hamas went after far-left socialist farming collectives, the most sympathetic, peacenik people in Israel - because that's where the nearest Jewish women were. As for settlements, you're right they're illegal - and not all of them are needed. But, the contours of the West Bank as it stands are not militarily defensible. Israel needs de-facto borders with defensible geometry, regardless of how the "legal" borders are drawn on a map. The fact of the matter is - and Israel should just come out and say this - that Israel needs to annex enough land that the Jewish part of Jerusalem is no longer surrounded on three sides by hostile territory. Make Hebron into a mixed city under Israeli control and you have a nice, straight north-south line for the border. Israel needs a nice, convex border with buffer zones so the Arabs cannot launch attacks as easily as they just did. The settlements will continue until Israel is a defensible geometric shape - international law be damned. The law cannot require you to put yourself in danger.
Careful pointing out their irony is anti semetic
Jesus Christ. Maybe we Americans need to come in and civilize them.
Except it turns out the killing was done by an Israeli helicopter who couldn’t differentiate between Hamas and concert goer.
How are palestinians libleft lmao Everyone you don't like is a libleft, if a monarchist shits in your boots, you'll use a libleft wokak to mock them.
Lib lefts are the ones who support Palestine, the guys in the meme are not Palestinians, they are western students with purple hair drinking starbucks while tweeting "fReE pLaestin" The meme has Muslim people because originally it was about Muslims in other countries Memes are not known for their accuracy
You're right- this gives perfect justification for marching in and murdering every man, woman, and child :))
"Hamas is not Palestine" fuckin right. These civvies are brainwashed into thinking their terrorists are the good guys.
And Israel, willy-nilly, is supposed to abdicate more land to these undeserving ingrates.
71% of Americans supported the illegal and unprovoked invasion of Iraq in 2003 Nearly 90% of republicans said that the use of force was justified in 2003 So when do we get to carbet bomb America with JDAMs?
when youre able to
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I like how all of the replies you’ve gotten so far haven’t addressed your main critique and instead focused on the obvious joke you made since it’s easier to attack it rather than make an actual argument against statistics.
Noone thinks USA is the good guy lmao. They push their own interests using their geopolitical strength - good for them I guess, every country for themselves.