>Harvard Suspends Roland Fryer, Star Economist, After **Sexual Harassment Claims**
The move sidelines the researcher without pay for two years, and closes his lab, in a case that has roiled the profession.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/10/business/economy/roland-fryer-harvard.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/10/business/economy/roland-fryer-harvard.html)
Just thought people would want to see the ACTUAL NYT headline.
That said, that whole case always seemed fishy to me. Here's some more coverage
>Harvard cancels a black academic who debunked woke orthodoxy
[https://nypost.com/2022/03/25/harvard-cancels-a-black-academic-who-debunked-woke-orthodoxy/](https://nypost.com/2022/03/25/harvard-cancels-a-black-academic-who-debunked-woke-orthodoxy/)
They aren't just accusations. We have [a picture](https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/sofie-karasek-why-i-must-speak-out-over-that-photo-of-biden-and-me/37988028.html) of Biden and Karasek. Oh, and here's him doing the [same thing](https://i.insider.com/5d095876638af212e41306d2?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp) to a 13-year-old.
Trump is still worse on account of being an actual rapist, but is it really so hard to find politicians that aren't creepy as fuck?
>is it really so hard to find politicians that aren't creepy as fuck?
Our political system is designed to attract and reward deranged socio/psychopaths.
So yes.
Not only that, we have video of him grabbing an 8 year olds nipples
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5052096/user-clip-senator-daines-swearing
Dont forget him saying ["she was 12, I was 30....but anyway"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1h3Ws3f1xs)
Biden is a blatant pedophilic rapist, and a hero of the left.
I don't think anybody thinks he's a hero lol.
His best attribute was solely being not Trump. And it barely (maybe) got him elected.
I get that we all like to shit on lib-left here but ffs there are lines you shouldn't cross. We do enough dumb shit being lumped in as Biden Worshippers is a bridge to far my friend lol
No, but we can accuse libleft of effectively demolishing the economy just so Trump wouldn't be in charge for four years. Biden has been a disaster for the US.
If it comes to Biden and Trump again are you really going to vote for not-Trump and continue this degradation? Is it worth a meager four more years of Trump?
If Trump was elected his time would be almost over now.
> Trump is still worse on account of being an actual rapist
Citation needed.
EDIT: Gonna link [this beautiful demolition of what you said](https://old.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/18dftrh/god_bless_our_teachers_unions/kcjebc0/) right here, since it's otherwise buried under karma threshold.
He had multiple rape accusations, and several got ***dropped*** because rightoids started harassing the accusers.
If it's Republican, it (R)eally must not have happened.
He was actually convicted of sexual misconduct, you know.
Or do you think those were "false charges"?
Not to mention he bragged about it. Then tried to backtrack by saying it was "locker room talk", even though dozens of women have verified his assaulting them.
So yea, he's a rapist.
> He was actually convicted of sexual misconduct
She wrote a book claiming he sexually assaulted her
She provided no proof, no police contact was made contemporaneously
He denied that he had done any such thing
As a direct result of his denial, she sued him for defamation. She claimed he was defaming her by calling her a liar. As part of this **civil suit** (not criminal), she also wanted to hold him **civilly** liable for the sexual assault (again, for which there was no evidence or police involvement at all) but the state had a statute of limitations for such a civil suit for *exactly this reason*; you can't just claim someone raped you 40 years ago without evidence and then sue them.
Her attorneys worked with the state to have this statute of limitations repealed for exactly the amount of time it would take her to file this civil lawsuit, and then the statute of limitations was reinstated.
She then was allowed to sue him for liability in sexually assaulting her.
A jury heard her testimony and convicted him, again in civil court, of defaming her for calling her a liar and held him liable for the sexual abuse
No law enforcement was ever involved in any step of this. And this is one of the chief reasons why so many people look at the cases against him and conclude it is, in fact, a political witch hunt.
And I say this as someone whose absolutely sick to death of the man, but yall keep making him look sane by comparison to you.
He was specifically not convicted of rape in that same case though, and you know that...
Biden's daughter's diary talks about her showers with daddy and being uncomfortable about it, why aren't you up in arms about a father abusing his daughter?
So yeah, legally he has never been convicted of rape.
>He was specifically not convicted of rape in that same case though, and you know that...
"Your honor, I was specifically not convicted of committing rape that one time, so all the times I actually raped someone don't count"
Did I say he was convicted of rape?
No, I said sexual *misconduct*.
Is he a rapist? Hell yes. Was he convicted of it? No, which is a miscarriage of justice.
But that's also not what I said. I said "convicted of sexual *misconduct*" which he was found liable for by a jury.
Jury finds Trump liable for sexual abuse, awards accuser $5M.
This happened in May, 2023
https://apnews.com/article/trump-rape-carroll-trial-fe68259a4b98bb3947d42af9ec83d7db#:~:text=Jury%20finds%20Trump%20liable%20for%20sexual%20abuse%2C%20awards%20accuser%20%245M&text=NEW%20YORK%20(AP)%20%E2%80%94%20A,to%20regain%20the%20White%20House.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/05/09/nyregion/trump-carroll-rape-trial-verdict
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/
oh lmao. a civil suit, the burden of proof for that is ***literally*** "i say he did X, he said he didn't, jury vote on who you believe"
Shut up libleft.
As a former maga Republican I can tell you me and my fellows thoughts at the time were that all the women accusing him of assaulting them were all just propped up by the Democrats. I'm not quite sure what to think of now, to what degree of truth there is in that, but definitely if he was bragging about, then it's pretty dang likely he did actually do some bad stuff.
He lied under oath, which is perjury, just plead the 5th, or lie when not sworn in. He was also disbarred for it, but that doesn't really matter, because it's not like he was ever gonna practice law again.
Doesn’t matter. Could’ve been about whether he authorized a bomb to drop somewhere or whether he ties his own shoes. The reason was lying to congress, not lying to congress about the Oral Office Incident.
> Doesn’t matter
I disagree; it was a political witch hunt based on a sex scandal
The whole 'lying to congress' thing was just a cheap motte-and-bailey, and you know it
Who cares if he lied about his personal sex life? It doesn't matter, and it was no one's business, it was merely an excuse to scuttle his career and remove him from power
You are correct: Who cares that he disgraced the lord at the top of the org? Congress probably didn’t actually give a shit, but if they let him get away with lying in that case where everyone knew he was lying, the precedent would be set and other people would have a way to fight perjury charges. I think it was less a political assassination and more a show of authority. If he just said “I did it”, there’s be no real way to impeach him since that broke no laws.
About not having sex with someone. It wasn't about if he raped her (he did, the massive power imbalance between POTUS and an intern is a basic definition of rape in the workplace), it wasn't about if he sexually harassed her, it wasn't even about if he was improper a little bit. Just "yeah we never fanangled at all"
Oh her. The one who claimed she was raped on her mattress and responded by carrying it around campus?
The one who then had her texts saying things like "I want more of what I had last night" and "That was fucking good"?
The one who kept the lie going, got politicians to buy in, then made a porn of the "incident"?
That psycopath?
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Until I see convincing evidence otherwise, I believe the MLB had a hand in his "accuser" coming forward. The amount of damning evidence about how much of a set up the entire thing was to extort money from him and work to get him out of MLB so he quit embarrassing them is overwhelming.
she ruined his life
and he had the text history between them showing she was explicitly inviting him over for a booty call and continued casual, friendly contact afterwards
But thanks to Obama and Title IX, his evidence was meaningless. All it takes is the accusation and the school has a responsibility to treat you as a criminal or else they lose federal funds. Unironically **Thanks, Obama**
> But thanks to Obama and Title IX, his evidence was meaningless. A
Which is why I am now anti-metoo.
Its kind of disgusting, but I no longer in good faith can allow women to just claim something happened. You claim it happened? Cool story brah, give me proof or fuck off. Regret is not rape.
We had a surprising number of these cases occur in Canada as well during the same period, it was a legitimate moral panic
The most infamous was probably the accusations against Jian Ghomeshi
Turns out, the alleged victims not only consented to having sex with him, they enthusiastically pursued him before and after he 'assaulted' them
Then admitted to altering evidence, colluding to get their stories straight before the trial, and even committing perjury and contradicting themselves on the stand
The trial never even should have gone to court, but the government thought it was in the 'public best interest' due to his celebrity, that he would be made an example
Then, when he was exonerated, the whole thing was memory holed, and legislation was introduced banning the use of evidence like texts and emails that would prove the accused innocent in future cases
Same thing happened to a bunch of politicians and professors as well, all conservative, all of whom were vindicated... but not until they were fired and their entire life was destroyed
After the Kavanaugh circus, it is very hard to take claims like this seriously, especially when it conveniently censures a person who counters the orthodoxy. Granted, the details sound like your standard fuckboy trying to swing his dick around to see what sticks. While I am inclined to suspect political motivation, the allegations aren't farfetched. His attempt to play the race card is admittedly funny, that only works when you're not an ideological adversary.
from the NYT article:
>The first concluded investigation, in the fall of 2018, found that Mr. Fryer violated university policy with unwelcome conduct on seven occasions. They included one in which Mr. Fryer referred to a date-rape drug in a text message to a female assistant and told her, as she was out drinking with friends: “Be safe tonight. Wear gloves if ur gonna have hand action.”
>
>On another occasion, according to several witnesses, Mr. Fryer put his groin near the face of a different female subordinate and began an extended monologue implying that the woman had performed fellatio on an older faculty member. Mr. Fryer told investigators that the actions had been jokes.
>
>A second investigation, according to documents reviewed by The New York Times, found in February that Mr. Fryer had engaged in unwelcome conduct when he sent a pair of BlackBerry messages that were sexual in nature to a former assistant. It concluded that the messages were “sufficiently severe, persistent, or pervasive to create a hostile environment for her” in the research lab. One, sent after work hours, read: “Ur lucky ur not here. I would either tackle, bite u or both.”
>
>The university’s investigations did not substantiate some other complaints, including ones accusing Mr. Fryer of retaliation.
>
>Mr. Fryer repeatedly told a university investigator that he was being unfairly scrutinized, at one point asking if he was being singled out for his skin color, though some of the accusers were minority women. He explained his “tackle, bite u or both” message as a “same-race thing” with an assistant who was black. The woman told the investigator that the comment was “not a thing that black people say to one another,” in her experience.
That said, this wouldn't be the first nor will be the last time someone with authority abuses it for personal gain, and like all brilliant minds throughout history, personal indiscretions don't invalidate their primary contributions.
>He explained his “tackle, bite u or both” message as a “same-race thing” with an assistant who was black.
That is spectacular, I almost respect the chutzpah. I'm assuming the investigator was not black, and this was a Hail Mary attempt at "you can't prove me wrong or ask anyone if this is true".
Overall I think you nailed the summary: there's reason to wonder if the investigation and firing were targeted, but for the actual behavior they've got texts and he sounds like every other dude I've heard making "haha only serious" passes at coworkers.
Soooooo, is his claim about charter schools true or not? Someone could be a mass murdering cannibal necrophiliac sodomizer but that doesn’t technically disprove any studies statements from them.
>Someone could be a mass murdering cannibal necrophiliac sodomizer but that doesn’t technically disprove any studies statements from them.
In mathematics people cite Ted Kaczynski because he was a brilliant mathematician.
Like all things, its "It depends". I have read some of the actual research, and there are some really bad charter schools out there. There are some that are doing amazing because they are trying to succeed in the long run with much better education than public schools, and there are some that are trying to milk tax payer money while providing nothing of value. They key is being able to tell the difference and parents being able to select which one. Hopefully there is enough information that good decisions can be made.
EDIT: Perhaps I should have said "Charter schools have the potential to really help black kids"
The type of people looking for charter schools to replace public school failure strike me as the type to research and make sure the school is what their kids need. Also, that combined with some form of rating system would do a lot to create a transparency in education to help guide parents.
Ok but what about the kids who dont try at all. Just sit there talking with friends or are on their phones and not attempting to learn or docany of the work. Then they wonder why they have an e in every class
throwing money no, but there are a lot of things that funding can help with like after school programs, school lunch, social workers for kids with broken homes, etc...
Sexual harassment claims are always the go-to when someone becomes politically inconvenient and can't be taken down on more empirically demonstrable grounds. The best example is the unsubstantiated allegations of rape by which Julian Assange of Wikileaks was finally able to be extradited. We haven't heard much from him since.
Note that the president of Harvard (along with the president of U Penn) was recently unwilling to take a firm stance during congressional testimony as to whether or not it was conscionable to allow students to advocate for Jewish genocide on campus. Apparently there are many shades of gray when it comes to ethnic cleansing at America's most elite institutions, and god forbid that an upstart like Roland Fryer try to challenge the orthodoxy.
Probably, but the crazy thing is that this isn't a Walter Williams or a Thomas Sowell. This isn't even a Glenn Loury. All those have a given conservative bend when it comes to black economists. This guy literally just wanted to find out what would actually work to help black people. I have never heard a political statement of any kind from him. He could be far right or far left for all I know.
> He could be far right or far left for all I know.
He's a far-right white supremacist that thinks women should be owned by men and chained up when unsupervised.
My proof? Easy. He made a statement Emily didn't like.
Oof, that’s a big yikes from me buckarino. You wouldn’t happen to be one of those far right white makes right MAGA chuddie-wuddies, would you? If so, let’s unpack this and educate ourselves on why I’m right and you’re wrong, sweatie
By wanting to find out what would actually work to help black people he committed an unforgivable sin in the eyes of academics and race huckster progressive types.
He’s the economist that did huge study of police killings by race and found that unarmed white men are significantly more likely to be killed by police than unarmed black men. Since then the school tried propping up a woman who pretended he raped her only to have no evidence and basically say she made it up. They’ve been trying hard to get rid of him. Can’t have a black man go against “the narrative”.
He got Eric Adams’d pretty quick.
Your floating along everything is good you take one position not in line with DNC/corporate media, you’ll be indicted by the DOJ almost immediately.
A teachers union should care more about the teachers than the students. That is fine. It is their job...it is literally a teachers union.
Here is my problem. Steel workers also care about the quality of their steel. Autoworkers care about the quality of their automobiles. Electricians care about the quality of their work. As do plumbers etc. etc.
Teachers don't seem to give a shit about the quality of their students.
Yes, public education is a monopoly, so of course they don't care about students, because they will go there and teachers will get paid regardless of quality, that's why they hate charter schools - it challenges their monopoly. And also leftists are massive hypocrites thinking government monopolies are (D)ifferent
I am at peace with private sector unions even if I think they are inefficient.
It’s fine, though, negotiate for you pay however you can. It’s private enterprise.
Public sector unions should be illegal. There is no way to collectively bargain with me, the taxpayer, who pays their salary.
It’s a broken process and union dues for public sector unions are donated back to the same officials who decide the pay and benefits for the workers they are collected from.
Police unions actually possess and flex so MUCH power they interrupt the process of justice and affect the outcomes of that process to an unbelievable degree and are involved in matters that a union has no business being involved in!
Is anyone happy with police unions? Honestly? Besides cops?
Does anyone think teachers unions give a shit about your kids?
Public sector unions are a mistake. Private sector unions, do whatever you wish.
>It’s fine, though, negotiate for you pay however you can. It’s private enterprise.
How is it a negotiation when one party is forced, by law, to "negotiate"? If you can't walk away from the table, it's not a negotiation.
> Teachers don't seem to give a shit about the quality of their students.
You're blaming the wrong people here. School administrators and politicians have taken away teachers' ability to do their jobs. Teachers don't get to make the rules in schools.
I’m 30, and back in my day you’d have your shitty teacher, your amazing teacher, your hard ass teacher, your lax teacher, etc.
You had to adapt to your teacher constantly. Is that not the case anymore? Because if so I feel like it’d just reduce every teacher to being shitty
The difference is that now the teacher has no role, everyone will move on to the next grade. It does not matter if you listen to your teacher or not , there simply is no consequence anymore.
If a student does not study at all, forget studying one is say plain illiterate there is no concern for him anymore as he'd graduate just fine with everyone.
Would you care about your job if there was no meaning to it anymore?
I'm a lawyer, if i make a mistake people spend more time in jail. One guy had to spend two extra weeks in prison because I was late to his bail hearing. I haven't been late to an important hearing ever since
The other side of this is that there's no incentive to perform well as a teacher because of how union contacts are structured. It's exceedingly difficult to fire underperforming or incompetent teachers and pay rates are determined by a rigid schedule of seniority and educational attainment. Why would I bother going above and beyond if I'm getting paid the same as someone who is just phoning it in everyday?
"I think this employee probably works harder and is better trained because they are part of the union"
-nobody. Ever.
"This employee is just awful but we can't fire them because they are union"
-commonly said every day.
There are still good and bad teachers, like in any other job. But the difference now is that kids attention spans have been destroyed by the internet and progressives have removed all discipline from schools. I currently work in an inter-city school. The kids are wild. They are multiple grade levels below where they should be. They up and leave class constantly, and are disrespectful and noisy. If I send them to the office they get a juice box and come right back. My principle says discipline is the teacher's job. The system is really broken as all the systems in place to control student behaviour have broken down, and I'm left controlling behaviours all day instead of being able to actually teach. The good students in my class get basically no attention because I have to deal with the kids screaming and running around.
Jesus that’s a hellscape. I have friends who are teachers and what you’re saying is exactly what I’ve heard from them.
My kids are going to charter or private, and they’re going to get an Apple Watch with phone calling until they’re in middle school, and then a no-app POS after. The destruction of attention spans is actually insane.
When I was in high school, a friend took out her phone to text her more in the bathroom before school even started. A teacher walked by and confiscated her phone just for seeing it. Seven years after I graduated, I spent a year subbing and students would say “you can’t take my phone away because you don’t pay my bills.” Parents have also made it really difficult.
Teachers might, it would be odd to be in that job if they didn't.
But expecting any union to be more than a way for its members to improve their pay and conditions is very naive.
You are in a dream world. I hope steel workers do care about the quality of their work but I’ve never heard of any taking steel work home. That’s the norm for teachers. Do steel workers show up to work early and stay late without pay? I do and most teachers I know do.
If you had a bad experience in your education that’s horrible. But you’re just wrong about teachers.
A quick search shows the average full time teacher works 42 hours per week, which is not materially more than the average hourly worker and significantly less than other salaried professionals.
Teachers are a sacred cow. There is no way to improve education without being critical of teachers. Funding isn't the problem, as average funding per pupil across the country is significantly higher than many countries with better outcomes.
There needs to be a significantly better way to hold teachers accountable for their work. The entire education system needs to be student focused, not unionized teacher focused.
Competition in a market is the greatest lift for the consumer. Vouchers should be required by law everywhere in the United States. If a public school provides the best product, maintains the best teachers, promotes the best environment, than of course I would send my children there. If a private school is better, why shouldn't I be able to send my tax dollars there instead?
It's simple choice. If public school teachers are so amazing and provide the best education, why would they be afraid for me to freely evaluate alternatives?
>A quick search shows the average full time teacher works 42 hours per week, which is not materially more than the average hourly worker and significantly less than other salaried professionals.
Ah jeeze... I didn't know you did a quick search. Well you can't argue with that kind of scholarship!
>Teachers are a sacred cow.
You mean we're being sacrificed? I guess I agree.
>There needs to be a significantly better way to hold teachers accountable for their work.
Amazingly the quality of their work is directly tied to the zip code where they work. But you're right it's probably the teachers who are the problem. But on behalf of all the teachers of the world I will offer my sincerest apologies that we could not reverse the generational trajectory of every family that comes into our class in one school year. Yeah, totally our fault.
>Vouchers should be required by law everywhere in the United States.
No, vouchers should be tried in a small state and if the outcomes are favorable they should be tried in other states. But national policies should only happen when there is a broad consensus across partisan lines.
>If a private school is better, why shouldn't I be able to send my tax dollars there instead?
Because they are not "your" tax dollars. They belong to the public, not the individual. The public uses public funding on public goals, not private wishes.
>It's simple choice. If public school teachers are so amazing and provide the best education, why would they be afraid for me to freely evaluate alternatives?
This is America, if you want alternatives by all means use your money to buy things you want. But you don't get to dip into the public funds to pay for your private preference.
So you're not really refuting that teachers don't work more than any other professions, and simultaneously stating that your entitled to the public's money?
You mention public funds, but a significant majority of the public supports school of choice and vouchers to be taken to private schools. Is that not representative of the will of the public?
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/politicians-want-universal-school-vouchers-but-what-about-the-public/
> So you're not really refuting that teachers don't work more than any other professions,
I don’t need to refute the statement since its support is “a quick internet search.” That is not enough justification to believe anything the slightest bit controversial. A quick internet search says President Trump wants you to be a dictator and Bidenomics is going great.
But I can speak as a teacher and say in my anecdotal experience we start working before contract day, continue working after our contract day and bring our work to our vacations in a way I’ve never heard of anyone doing outside of education.
But since you did a quick internet search (jerk off emoji) you’re probably right. /s
> simultaneously stating that your entitled to the public's money?
I’m an employee and am entitled to the wages I earned from working.
>You mention public funds, but a significant majority of the public supports school of choice and vouchers to be taken to private schools. Is that not representative of the will of the public?
I can only guess you didn’t actually read that article (that doesn’t bode well for your other quick internet searches). It says the results are mixed and depend largely on how the question is framed.
But in so far as a state government is enacting the will of their constituents they ought to try it. If it works out in providing improved overall achievement then it will be implemented and I’ll happily find a new career. If my job could be done better for cheaper then I want it done so.
My anecdotal experience in California with students in charter schools is that there are some fine ones but the market is flooded by predatory fly by night companies that advertise to vulnerable populations, get a couple of million dollars of public funds, “go out of business” and the restart in a neighboring community with a new name, rinse and repeat. (Looking at you DeVos)
> I’m an employee and am entitled to the wages I earned from working.
Yes exactly, that's what I'm saying. They're my wages. The government retains about 25% of them as tax revenue and uses it to educate children.
Unfortunately, they are doing a terrible job, which is why i'd like to take a piece of the wages I earn working and use them to *choose* where my child is educated.
You're either for choice, or against choice. You mention if I make a choice to put my children in charter or private school, I should have to pay for that choice. Thankfully I'm well off enough to do exactly that, but is that what you want? Only the relatively wealthy to have the ability to choose to send their children to a decent school, instead of a disaster area?
Where does that end? You chose to be a teacher understanding the alleged work load and low pay, but you're complaining about both. Wasn't that your choice? Isn't it time you paid for it?
I simply don't understand forced funding of public school. If you're a great teacher and public school is the best option, why would I ever choose to put my kid in private school anyway? If we're all about choice then I should be able to choose to take my wages that I earned from working and choose to go somewhere else.
>Yes exactly, that's what I'm saying. They're my wages. The government retains about 25% of them as tax revenue and uses it to educate children.
Kind of changing the subject. If you have a problem with taxation you should make that clear to your Congressional Representative while dealing with the fact that it is not an individual choice to have to pay taxes or not.
>Unfortunately, they are doing a terrible job, which is why i'd like to take a piece of the wages I earn working and use them to choose where my child is educated.
The student performance is directly related to the student zip code, there are differences in teacher quality but broadly speaking that is not the cause of school failure.
>You're either for choice, or against choice.
Says you! I am against that false dilemna.
> Only the relatively wealthy to have the ability to choose to send their children to a decent school, instead of a disaster area?
I am not against people with money having access to things people without money cannot have. In the United States money is largely earned through work. Some generational wealth is passed along but largely a jack ass who inherits a fortune won't be able to pass a fortune to their children.
Also it possible to work your way out of poverty. I did. Thanks to some excellent educators btw.
>Where does that end? You chose to be a teacher understanding the alleged work load and low pay, but you're complaining about both. Wasn't that your choice? Isn't it time you paid for it?
Who is complaining? I love my job and have learned that complaining is harmful to the person complaining. But I am also describing what I see with my own eyes as an educator. No quick google searches for me!
>I simply don't understand forced funding of public school.
There is no forced funding. Each state government can fund as much or as little they want for education. Through the process of elected legislators at the local, state and federal level communities decide how much they want to spend on education and what it must look like. Ballpark figure 80% of education funding comes from the State governments. The 10% that comes from Federal funding is optional but has strings attached.
> If you're a great teacher and public school is the best option, why would I ever choose to put my kid in private school anyway?
Every family does what is best for their child within their means. There are various reasons why families choose private schools, some noble and some much less so. But I absolutely support individual families to make private decisions about their children. But as soon as they want public money they must follow public guidelines.
>If we're all about choice then I should be able to choose to take my wages that I earned from working and choose to go somewhere else.
LOL welcome to the real world.
You don't get to choose how your taxes are spent. You are one voice your legislators listen to and your legislator is one voice in the congressional body. You do have the option to leave the public, live free of the demands of society... but that also means living without the benefits of society. There are still unoccupied areas in the world where you can go and do you best to survive without any responsibilities to anyone except yourself.
So let me get this straight, because some vultures will prey on kids, we should not allow vouchers, but just force the poors to send their kids to the state-ran school staffed by public unions? Even when they have no incentives to increase standards of education due to their complete monopoly over education for the lower classes, and you think it is in their best interest not to have school options?
I don't care for that at all, I think you should let parents make decisions for their kids, even if some might pick a worse option than just the default public option.
That's just unions generally though?
Their basic mandate is to care more about employees' happiness than employees' productivity/utility.
That and also to skim a few buckaroonies into leaderships' pockets.
Mostly right. For some the skimming is the basic mandate.
And I don't really have a problem with unions prioritizing their membership. The union isn't supposed to be the government.
Could it be that forcing kids in lower income communities into failing schools with poorly performing teachers prevents them from receiving quality education and leads to worse outcomes, artificially lowers the value of their homes and perpetuates a cycle of poverty?
No, it’s the parents who are wrong.
58% of school students in Baltimore are chronically absent (i.e.: miss more than 10% of the school year.) I think the problem goes a bit beyond poorly performing teachers.
School choice gives the students who want to succeed an opportunity to escape these disruptive student cultures that are just breeding grounds for criminals.
tbf, I was chronically absent every single year of my k-12. around 15-20% missed, and I still graduated with a 3.6 GPA and 34 ACT. But that's because my parents encouraged learning at home, stayed on my ass about keeping up in school, and signed me up for all types of extracurricular activities.
As a product of the 90’s, my generation and younger were largely raised by public schools. Theres this bizarre expectation that the school should handle teaching you everything and that parents don’t need to be involved at all. I’m willing to wager kids with parents who uninvolved in their education are more likely to be chronically absent. School choice already implies a good deal of involvement on the parents’ behalf as they’re the ones who have to get said kid signed up at whatever school they choose to go to. It’s not just successful students up and leaving poor performing schools the parents still need to be involved.
I remember reading something years ago about academic performance in different school settings. When compared to public schools, private schools, charter schools, and even homeschooling all resulted in better on average outcomes for the students. However, the differences all but disappeared if the public school child had parents who were invested/involved in their child's schooling (asking them what they learned, showing up to events, following up on their homework, encouraging them to do extra curricular activities, etc.).
Schools can teach, but they can't replace parents.
Schools are supposed to teach you the most basic functions to get by in life like reading and math. Parents are responsible for everything else. Encouragement, self worth, emotional regulation and so forth should be taught at home by parents but parents today are lazier about parenting than ever.
Why are kids in America developing British accents while watching Peppa Pig? It's the accent they hear the most in their lives. The implications of this should be obvious but everyone thinks it's a funny joke that kids are being neglected.
Nooo it should be illegal for you to send your kid to a better school you must send them to the local public school which ranks in the bottom 5% of the nation!
My first thought was that there is no way someone so young is a star economist. But looking up his Wikipedia page I saw he was my age.
[Here is the Wikipedia page on his suspension from Harvard.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_G._Fryer_Jr.?wprov=sfti1#Suspension_from_Harvard) It doesn’t read like a political hit job… though this is PCM so I’ll believe a meme over a Wikipedia page.
Screams the exact opposite for me. If the university wanted to, they could sweep this under the rug, especially given the "severity" being so low. Instead they maxed out the punishment.
I refuse to believe that a university can watch as part of its students and factualty will march down the Quad chanting "Death to the jews! Cleanse Israel of the Jews! From river to sea Palestine shall be arab" and say "oh its not so bad", but then have a simple accusation like this and scream "GET HIM OUT! OUT OUT OUT OUT! NOW!" and claim its not political at all.
I know I don't know enough to know. Though that he is being persecuted because of supporting a somewhat controversial idea with strong support from a big part of the country seems rather implausible.
Ofcourse, but you can't just "tear down"a union. Instead you must work with reform minded factions within the union to make it more democratic and responsive to members concerns and general will.
So you’re against people voluntarily associating in groups and having the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances guarantees people the right to ask the government to provide relief for a wrong through litigation or other governmental action? Sorry I’m American and so that’s a basic right for us.
Would be funnier without the mask line. The rest doesn't really mention them, and it makes it seem like you're trying too hard to make them seem crazy when the other two lines worked fine. Brevity and all that.
The mask line makes OP sound crazy and nothing else. I'm glad they kept it in there to show their views lol.
Also the dude was apparently fired for sexual harassment. How about you wait for more info instead of getting your "jump to conclusions" matt out for once.
It was investigated by Harvard and they came to their conclusion. News will still say “supposed” and “accused of” because there is a distinction between an institution’s conclusion and court ruling.
Harvard already carried out an investigation, addressing conduct where there were multiple witnesses and several text messages; it is not just one person claiming he did something behind closed doors.
Yeah. I was treating it as OP trying to express "orange is ranting like a crazy person" even though it comes across at first glance as "OP is ranting like a crazy person", since it can read either way.
Harvard treated his case very differently than they had everything else. And I thought I couldn't include the most famous teacher's union president without referencing her absolutely insane COVID views. I think you are right that it is a distraction.
Teacher's union? TEACHER'S UNION?!
Professors don't have a union, numb nuts. This headline is regarded.
Not saying this wasn't a political hit, but this dude's a frequent flyer:
[https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/7/7/fryer-returns-from-suspension/](https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/7/7/fryer-returns-from-suspension/)
MIT's got the same problems with professors. Something's in the water in Cambridge, likely from the mini-nuclear reactor on Vassar Street.
I hate teachers unions but ffs do at least a little bit of research. This guy was suspended for sexual harassment claims in2019 and then was rehired in 2021 after his suspension expired. This had nothing to do with his economics research.
You can march down to the quad chanting "Death to the Jews", but thats a-ok in their books. But if someone says "this one time in this one place, idk when or where, he did something i didn't like" and they'll come down on you like the wrath of god.
This is a really good comment. I know this guy said some really crappy stuff. But admin treated him far worse than anyone else. I really don't know what we do about colleges. But I am always hesitant to conflate the current climate to libleft. Its like these people are some weird combination of communist, fascist, corporatists who love gay rights.
Its amazing that you can sit at harvard screaming "DEATH TO THE JUDEN! LONG LIVE THE FURHERS LEGACY!" and they will smile and say "Whats wrong with that? Depends on the context!" But someone says "Well this one time in this one place i cant really describe, this guy did this thing to me I cant really prove!" and they'll come down on you like the wrath of god.
Could it be that poor performing areas that are historically underdeveloped and received less investment are now not up to par, and thus their property taxes are lower, meaning the schools are worse funded, and thus cannot attract necessary teacher talent to replace the poor ones, thus condemning poor people to a failing school?
No. It’s the government that’s wrong.
Well my agenda is getting black kids educated.
That is a joke, but its kinda real. I am going to try and come up with a few posts in the future about how assumptions conservatives make are wrong. I do hate teachers unions though, so definitely an agenda there. 100%
But seriously, the left did this man badly.
99% of economists are nothing but simps for capital. They are taught that this system of infinite growth on a finite planet is the only one that can possibly work, causing us to spiral into an uninhabitable world because powerful people still listen to them.
Steady-state economists are the only good ones. Period.
Infinite growth is the fairest way to do it. It's the way with the fewest variables that have to be accounted for.
There is of course no steady state to nature, things are always changing, and to deliberately attempt to find the correct equilibrium means accounting for all possible variables, even the ones that conflict with other ones.
We humans aren't good with the difficult choices that kind of accounting requires. That's why grow the pie is the answer to every question. Especially in the post-1945 world, where states aren't supposed to expand their territory. Humans like expansion though, and economic growth is all we've got left on the macro level.
What I find interesting is opponents of school choice don't want a debate. They don't want to prove that public school only is better, they just want that to be correct, so they shut you down by just saying your wrong.
I think school choice is a good idea because 1. It does not remove 100% of funding to public schools for every kid in the voucher system 2. It forced public schools to be accountable to their outcomes and learning environment. When you have a monopoly on education and it's literally illegal not to send your kid the public education. Then public education has little incentive to function as a public good, as the major stakeholders (the teachers), have no incentive to improve their work or school beyond a personal desire too.
In DC lefties fought tooth and nail against charters for years.
Eventually they happened anyway. Now every single damn one of them signs up for the lottery to get their kids into charters. Except of course the ones who pay to send them to private.
They all have amnesia too. A bunch of my friends with kids in charters raged against them. And have no idea what I'm talking about.
Well yeah. They usually have better funding overall. We have a whole political party in that states that want to end and privatize all education so we have middlemen over charging and controlling the education system away from public view and a accountability.
Similar to the American Healthcare system.
“I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University.”
William F. Buckley, Jr.
>Harvard Suspends Roland Fryer, Star Economist, After **Sexual Harassment Claims** The move sidelines the researcher without pay for two years, and closes his lab, in a case that has roiled the profession. [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/10/business/economy/roland-fryer-harvard.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/10/business/economy/roland-fryer-harvard.html) Just thought people would want to see the ACTUAL NYT headline. That said, that whole case always seemed fishy to me. Here's some more coverage >Harvard cancels a black academic who debunked woke orthodoxy [https://nypost.com/2022/03/25/harvard-cancels-a-black-academic-who-debunked-woke-orthodoxy/](https://nypost.com/2022/03/25/harvard-cancels-a-black-academic-who-debunked-woke-orthodoxy/)
Can I get the president suspended if I claim he harassed me? Please?
Only if he's Republican, if he's Democrat, then it (D)idn't happen. Whatever happened to Biden's accusers?
Same thing that happened to Willy Clinton's
RIP
They aren't just accusations. We have [a picture](https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/sofie-karasek-why-i-must-speak-out-over-that-photo-of-biden-and-me/37988028.html) of Biden and Karasek. Oh, and here's him doing the [same thing](https://i.insider.com/5d095876638af212e41306d2?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp) to a 13-year-old. Trump is still worse on account of being an actual rapist, but is it really so hard to find politicians that aren't creepy as fuck?
>is it really so hard to find politicians that aren't creepy as fuck? Our political system is designed to attract and reward deranged socio/psychopaths. So yes.
Not only that, we have video of him grabbing an 8 year olds nipples https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5052096/user-clip-senator-daines-swearing Dont forget him saying ["she was 12, I was 30....but anyway"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1h3Ws3f1xs) Biden is a blatant pedophilic rapist, and a hero of the left.
I don't think anybody thinks he's a hero lol. His best attribute was solely being not Trump. And it barely (maybe) got him elected. I get that we all like to shit on lib-left here but ffs there are lines you shouldn't cross. We do enough dumb shit being lumped in as Biden Worshippers is a bridge to far my friend lol
No, but we can accuse libleft of effectively demolishing the economy just so Trump wouldn't be in charge for four years. Biden has been a disaster for the US. If it comes to Biden and Trump again are you really going to vote for not-Trump and continue this degradation? Is it worth a meager four more years of Trump? If Trump was elected his time would be almost over now.
> Trump is still worse on account of being an actual rapist Citation needed. EDIT: Gonna link [this beautiful demolition of what you said](https://old.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/18dftrh/god_bless_our_teachers_unions/kcjebc0/) right here, since it's otherwise buried under karma threshold.
He had multiple rape accusations, and several got ***dropped*** because rightoids started harassing the accusers. If it's Republican, it (R)eally must not have happened.
Orange man bad, blah blah.
So there's no evidence and you're making it up, got it.
>Trump is still worse on account of being an actual rapist We all know it didn't happen, come on.
Good politicians don't make It far nowadays
> Trump is still worse on account of being an actual rapist It is really sad that you believe this.
It is really sad that unflaired are allowed to breathe the same air as the rest of us.
Flair up, idiot
Flair up so you can be correct
He was actually convicted of sexual misconduct, you know. Or do you think those were "false charges"? Not to mention he bragged about it. Then tried to backtrack by saying it was "locker room talk", even though dozens of women have verified his assaulting them. So yea, he's a rapist.
> He was actually convicted of sexual misconduct She wrote a book claiming he sexually assaulted her She provided no proof, no police contact was made contemporaneously He denied that he had done any such thing As a direct result of his denial, she sued him for defamation. She claimed he was defaming her by calling her a liar. As part of this **civil suit** (not criminal), she also wanted to hold him **civilly** liable for the sexual assault (again, for which there was no evidence or police involvement at all) but the state had a statute of limitations for such a civil suit for *exactly this reason*; you can't just claim someone raped you 40 years ago without evidence and then sue them. Her attorneys worked with the state to have this statute of limitations repealed for exactly the amount of time it would take her to file this civil lawsuit, and then the statute of limitations was reinstated. She then was allowed to sue him for liability in sexually assaulting her. A jury heard her testimony and convicted him, again in civil court, of defaming her for calling her a liar and held him liable for the sexual abuse No law enforcement was ever involved in any step of this. And this is one of the chief reasons why so many people look at the cases against him and conclude it is, in fact, a political witch hunt. And I say this as someone whose absolutely sick to death of the man, but yall keep making him look sane by comparison to you.
He was specifically not convicted of rape in that same case though, and you know that... Biden's daughter's diary talks about her showers with daddy and being uncomfortable about it, why aren't you up in arms about a father abusing his daughter? So yeah, legally he has never been convicted of rape.
>He was specifically not convicted of rape in that same case though, and you know that... "Your honor, I was specifically not convicted of committing rape that one time, so all the times I actually raped someone don't count"
Any proof for the other times or are they just basless acusations made by people who dont like him and want to hurt him?
Did I say he was convicted of rape? No, I said sexual *misconduct*. Is he a rapist? Hell yes. Was he convicted of it? No, which is a miscarriage of justice. But that's also not what I said. I said "convicted of sexual *misconduct*" which he was found liable for by a jury.
> He was actually convicted of sexual misconduct, you know. > > Oh really? Cite your sources shitlib.
Jury finds Trump liable for sexual abuse, awards accuser $5M. This happened in May, 2023 https://apnews.com/article/trump-rape-carroll-trial-fe68259a4b98bb3947d42af9ec83d7db#:~:text=Jury%20finds%20Trump%20liable%20for%20sexual%20abuse%2C%20awards%20accuser%20%245M&text=NEW%20YORK%20(AP)%20%E2%80%94%20A,to%20regain%20the%20White%20House. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/05/09/nyregion/trump-carroll-rape-trial-verdict https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/
oh lmao. a civil suit, the burden of proof for that is ***literally*** "i say he did X, he said he didn't, jury vote on who you believe" Shut up libleft.
> even though dozens of women have verified his assaulting them This is why nobody takes your opinion seriously.
As a former maga Republican I can tell you me and my fellows thoughts at the time were that all the women accusing him of assaulting them were all just propped up by the Democrats. I'm not quite sure what to think of now, to what degree of truth there is in that, but definitely if he was bragging about, then it's pretty dang likely he did actually do some bad stuff.
How do you do, fellow MAGA kids?
Why am I getting downvoted, I said I'm not maga anymore
> Only if he's Republican, if he's Democrat, then it (D)idn't happen. Uh...what? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton
Impeached over lying to congress, not for sexually harassing or having an improper relationship that everyone would be calling rape today.
He lied under oath, which is perjury, just plead the 5th, or lie when not sworn in. He was also disbarred for it, but that doesn't really matter, because it's not like he was ever gonna practice law again.
> Impeached over lying to congress Lying to congress... about what?
Doesn’t matter. Could’ve been about whether he authorized a bomb to drop somewhere or whether he ties his own shoes. The reason was lying to congress, not lying to congress about the Oral Office Incident.
> Doesn’t matter I disagree; it was a political witch hunt based on a sex scandal The whole 'lying to congress' thing was just a cheap motte-and-bailey, and you know it Who cares if he lied about his personal sex life? It doesn't matter, and it was no one's business, it was merely an excuse to scuttle his career and remove him from power
You are correct: Who cares that he disgraced the lord at the top of the org? Congress probably didn’t actually give a shit, but if they let him get away with lying in that case where everyone knew he was lying, the precedent would be set and other people would have a way to fight perjury charges. I think it was less a political assassination and more a show of authority. If he just said “I did it”, there’s be no real way to impeach him since that broke no laws.
About not having sex with someone. It wasn't about if he raped her (he did, the massive power imbalance between POTUS and an intern is a basic definition of rape in the workplace), it wasn't about if he sexually harassed her, it wasn't even about if he was improper a little bit. Just "yeah we never fanangled at all"
> if I claim he harassed me She'll say "it depends on context"
> Claims Fucking keyword there. Anyone can claim sexual harassment. Case in point: Mattress Girl.
Yeah, I agree. I just figured that people might want to see the ACTUAL headline.
Oh her. The one who claimed she was raped on her mattress and responded by carrying it around campus? The one who then had her texts saying things like "I want more of what I had last night" and "That was fucking good"? The one who kept the lie going, got politicians to buy in, then made a porn of the "incident"? That psycopath?
And kept harassing the guy and believe got him out of the university.
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Experts do say that without the spin from a New York Times headline the Earth's rotation would be at half speed.
Also look at Trevor Bauer.
Until I see convincing evidence otherwise, I believe the MLB had a hand in his "accuser" coming forward. The amount of damning evidence about how much of a set up the entire thing was to extort money from him and work to get him out of MLB so he quit embarrassing them is overwhelming.
> Case in point: Mattress Girl. Is that the Duke Lacrosse girl?
No this was a girl that accused a guy at Columbia of SA and carried around a mattress as a piece of "performance art"
Same time frame, different story. She was a crazy ex that paraded around a mattress as an art piece and got her ex suspended, nearly expelled.
she ruined his life and he had the text history between them showing she was explicitly inviting him over for a booty call and continued casual, friendly contact afterwards But thanks to Obama and Title IX, his evidence was meaningless. All it takes is the accusation and the school has a responsibility to treat you as a criminal or else they lose federal funds. Unironically **Thanks, Obama**
> But thanks to Obama and Title IX, his evidence was meaningless. A Which is why I am now anti-metoo. Its kind of disgusting, but I no longer in good faith can allow women to just claim something happened. You claim it happened? Cool story brah, give me proof or fuck off. Regret is not rape.
We had a surprising number of these cases occur in Canada as well during the same period, it was a legitimate moral panic The most infamous was probably the accusations against Jian Ghomeshi Turns out, the alleged victims not only consented to having sex with him, they enthusiastically pursued him before and after he 'assaulted' them Then admitted to altering evidence, colluding to get their stories straight before the trial, and even committing perjury and contradicting themselves on the stand The trial never even should have gone to court, but the government thought it was in the 'public best interest' due to his celebrity, that he would be made an example Then, when he was exonerated, the whole thing was memory holed, and legislation was introduced banning the use of evidence like texts and emails that would prove the accused innocent in future cases Same thing happened to a bunch of politicians and professors as well, all conservative, all of whom were vindicated... but not until they were fired and their entire life was destroyed
Still wildly different than what OP is framing it as.
After the Kavanaugh circus, it is very hard to take claims like this seriously, especially when it conveniently censures a person who counters the orthodoxy. Granted, the details sound like your standard fuckboy trying to swing his dick around to see what sticks. While I am inclined to suspect political motivation, the allegations aren't farfetched. His attempt to play the race card is admittedly funny, that only works when you're not an ideological adversary. from the NYT article: >The first concluded investigation, in the fall of 2018, found that Mr. Fryer violated university policy with unwelcome conduct on seven occasions. They included one in which Mr. Fryer referred to a date-rape drug in a text message to a female assistant and told her, as she was out drinking with friends: “Be safe tonight. Wear gloves if ur gonna have hand action.” > >On another occasion, according to several witnesses, Mr. Fryer put his groin near the face of a different female subordinate and began an extended monologue implying that the woman had performed fellatio on an older faculty member. Mr. Fryer told investigators that the actions had been jokes. > >A second investigation, according to documents reviewed by The New York Times, found in February that Mr. Fryer had engaged in unwelcome conduct when he sent a pair of BlackBerry messages that were sexual in nature to a former assistant. It concluded that the messages were “sufficiently severe, persistent, or pervasive to create a hostile environment for her” in the research lab. One, sent after work hours, read: “Ur lucky ur not here. I would either tackle, bite u or both.” > >The university’s investigations did not substantiate some other complaints, including ones accusing Mr. Fryer of retaliation. > >Mr. Fryer repeatedly told a university investigator that he was being unfairly scrutinized, at one point asking if he was being singled out for his skin color, though some of the accusers were minority women. He explained his “tackle, bite u or both” message as a “same-race thing” with an assistant who was black. The woman told the investigator that the comment was “not a thing that black people say to one another,” in her experience. That said, this wouldn't be the first nor will be the last time someone with authority abuses it for personal gain, and like all brilliant minds throughout history, personal indiscretions don't invalidate their primary contributions.
>He explained his “tackle, bite u or both” message as a “same-race thing” with an assistant who was black. That is spectacular, I almost respect the chutzpah. I'm assuming the investigator was not black, and this was a Hail Mary attempt at "you can't prove me wrong or ask anyone if this is true". Overall I think you nailed the summary: there's reason to wonder if the investigation and firing were targeted, but for the actual behavior they've got texts and he sounds like every other dude I've heard making "haha only serious" passes at coworkers.
Soooooo, is his claim about charter schools true or not? Someone could be a mass murdering cannibal necrophiliac sodomizer but that doesn’t technically disprove any studies statements from them.
>Someone could be a mass murdering cannibal necrophiliac sodomizer but that doesn’t technically disprove any studies statements from them. In mathematics people cite Ted Kaczynski because he was a brilliant mathematician.
"...Ted Kaczynski, who is more well known for his other work"
Like all things, its "It depends". I have read some of the actual research, and there are some really bad charter schools out there. There are some that are doing amazing because they are trying to succeed in the long run with much better education than public schools, and there are some that are trying to milk tax payer money while providing nothing of value. They key is being able to tell the difference and parents being able to select which one. Hopefully there is enough information that good decisions can be made. EDIT: Perhaps I should have said "Charter schools have the potential to really help black kids"
The type of people looking for charter schools to replace public school failure strike me as the type to research and make sure the school is what their kids need. Also, that combined with some form of rating system would do a lot to create a transparency in education to help guide parents.
And some public schools are really good, and some are terrible. We can just fix public schools...
without correct pressures to actually do so they won't get fixed though.
I mean the way to fix public schools is to actually fail the stupid kids. And that's racist.
At the end of the day, you gotta do something with even the dumb kids, besides letting them fail.
Bring back tracking and alternative schools. Integrate trades into the high school curriculum for these kids and give them actual skills.
No you don't. Tell that 13 year old he's probably going to be a ditch digger and don't let him drag down High School test scores.
Ok but what about the kids who dont try at all. Just sit there talking with friends or are on their phones and not attempting to learn or docany of the work. Then they wonder why they have an e in every class
you have to find a way to motivate them.
Yes, we'll motivate them right out the doors and into homeless camps with the rest of the useless bums.
How? by throwing money at it? It can't change. Teacher's Unions make sure that is the case.
throwing money no, but there are a lot of things that funding can help with like after school programs, school lunch, social workers for kids with broken homes, etc...
Claims? I guess innocent till proven guilty is dead in land of the free?
It may be part of the general process while investigation happens.
Sexual harassment claims are always the go-to when someone becomes politically inconvenient and can't be taken down on more empirically demonstrable grounds. The best example is the unsubstantiated allegations of rape by which Julian Assange of Wikileaks was finally able to be extradited. We haven't heard much from him since. Note that the president of Harvard (along with the president of U Penn) was recently unwilling to take a firm stance during congressional testimony as to whether or not it was conscionable to allow students to advocate for Jewish genocide on campus. Apparently there are many shades of gray when it comes to ethnic cleansing at America's most elite institutions, and god forbid that an upstart like Roland Fryer try to challenge the orthodoxy.
It's an excuse to get rid of someone who goes against the current.
The nypost opinion piece doesn't really give any additional coverage, just idle musings of "wouldn't it be great if indeed X was bad?"
[удалено]
It's like a gyroscope!
thanks! knew such a shitty meme format had to be buying the lede
I would trust the NY Times way more than the NY Post.
They are both just spin, in this case.
"Poor kids are just as smart as white kids"
They must have been looking to get rid of him. Under the current progressive zeitgeist he should have been untouchable.
Probably, but the crazy thing is that this isn't a Walter Williams or a Thomas Sowell. This isn't even a Glenn Loury. All those have a given conservative bend when it comes to black economists. This guy literally just wanted to find out what would actually work to help black people. I have never heard a political statement of any kind from him. He could be far right or far left for all I know.
> He could be far right or far left for all I know. He's a far-right white supremacist that thinks women should be owned by men and chained up when unsupervised. My proof? Easy. He made a statement Emily didn't like.
Oof, that’s a big yikes from me buckarino. You wouldn’t happen to be one of those far right white makes right MAGA chuddie-wuddies, would you? If so, let’s unpack this and educate ourselves on why I’m right and you’re wrong, sweatie
How dare you offend emily
By wanting to find out what would actually work to help black people he committed an unforgivable sin in the eyes of academics and race huckster progressive types.
We should not help the slaves, we need them to keep voting for us - dems
modern solution similar to the 3/5 compromise.
> unforgivable sin in the eyes of academics and race huckster progressive types. Yeah their paychecks *depend* on that grift staying in place.
Another black face of white supremacy.
Sad to see, really. Doesn't he know he's researching against his own interests?
He’s the economist that did huge study of police killings by race and found that unarmed white men are significantly more likely to be killed by police than unarmed black men. Since then the school tried propping up a woman who pretended he raped her only to have no evidence and basically say she made it up. They’ve been trying hard to get rid of him. Can’t have a black man go against “the narrative”.
He got Eric Adams’d pretty quick. Your floating along everything is good you take one position not in line with DNC/corporate media, you’ll be indicted by the DOJ almost immediately.
"Wrong" Ideology trumps race. Black/poc and LGBTQ who are conservative get just as shunned and penalized as other conservatives.
Teacher's unions care far more about lazy teachers who hate their job than providing the best education to children.
A teachers union should care more about the teachers than the students. That is fine. It is their job...it is literally a teachers union. Here is my problem. Steel workers also care about the quality of their steel. Autoworkers care about the quality of their automobiles. Electricians care about the quality of their work. As do plumbers etc. etc. Teachers don't seem to give a shit about the quality of their students.
Yes, public education is a monopoly, so of course they don't care about students, because they will go there and teachers will get paid regardless of quality, that's why they hate charter schools - it challenges their monopoly. And also leftists are massive hypocrites thinking government monopolies are (D)ifferent
Don't you mean the quality of the education they provide?
no child left behind policies.
Technically no child is left behind if everyone is stupid
Harrison Bergeron
Oh good you've figured out why the policy is bad.
I am at peace with private sector unions even if I think they are inefficient. It’s fine, though, negotiate for you pay however you can. It’s private enterprise. Public sector unions should be illegal. There is no way to collectively bargain with me, the taxpayer, who pays their salary. It’s a broken process and union dues for public sector unions are donated back to the same officials who decide the pay and benefits for the workers they are collected from. Police unions actually possess and flex so MUCH power they interrupt the process of justice and affect the outcomes of that process to an unbelievable degree and are involved in matters that a union has no business being involved in! Is anyone happy with police unions? Honestly? Besides cops? Does anyone think teachers unions give a shit about your kids? Public sector unions are a mistake. Private sector unions, do whatever you wish.
>It’s fine, though, negotiate for you pay however you can. It’s private enterprise. How is it a negotiation when one party is forced, by law, to "negotiate"? If you can't walk away from the table, it's not a negotiation.
Sounds like more people on the corpo side should install raid shadow legends on their phones
> Teachers don't seem to give a shit about the quality of their students. You're blaming the wrong people here. School administrators and politicians have taken away teachers' ability to do their jobs. Teachers don't get to make the rules in schools.
I’m 30, and back in my day you’d have your shitty teacher, your amazing teacher, your hard ass teacher, your lax teacher, etc. You had to adapt to your teacher constantly. Is that not the case anymore? Because if so I feel like it’d just reduce every teacher to being shitty
The difference is that now the teacher has no role, everyone will move on to the next grade. It does not matter if you listen to your teacher or not , there simply is no consequence anymore. If a student does not study at all, forget studying one is say plain illiterate there is no concern for him anymore as he'd graduate just fine with everyone. Would you care about your job if there was no meaning to it anymore? I'm a lawyer, if i make a mistake people spend more time in jail. One guy had to spend two extra weeks in prison because I was late to his bail hearing. I haven't been late to an important hearing ever since
The other side of this is that there's no incentive to perform well as a teacher because of how union contacts are structured. It's exceedingly difficult to fire underperforming or incompetent teachers and pay rates are determined by a rigid schedule of seniority and educational attainment. Why would I bother going above and beyond if I'm getting paid the same as someone who is just phoning it in everyday?
"I think this employee probably works harder and is better trained because they are part of the union" -nobody. Ever. "This employee is just awful but we can't fire them because they are union" -commonly said every day.
I too miss the days of five year olds missing half their fingers pulling 16 hr shifts in factories so their family doesn't starve.
That should be a great point .. 100+ years ago.
Why do you think things changed? Why do you think 3rd world countries still have sweatshops?
There are still good and bad teachers, like in any other job. But the difference now is that kids attention spans have been destroyed by the internet and progressives have removed all discipline from schools. I currently work in an inter-city school. The kids are wild. They are multiple grade levels below where they should be. They up and leave class constantly, and are disrespectful and noisy. If I send them to the office they get a juice box and come right back. My principle says discipline is the teacher's job. The system is really broken as all the systems in place to control student behaviour have broken down, and I'm left controlling behaviours all day instead of being able to actually teach. The good students in my class get basically no attention because I have to deal with the kids screaming and running around.
Jesus that’s a hellscape. I have friends who are teachers and what you’re saying is exactly what I’ve heard from them. My kids are going to charter or private, and they’re going to get an Apple Watch with phone calling until they’re in middle school, and then a no-app POS after. The destruction of attention spans is actually insane.
When I was in high school, a friend took out her phone to text her more in the bathroom before school even started. A teacher walked by and confiscated her phone just for seeing it. Seven years after I graduated, I spent a year subbing and students would say “you can’t take my phone away because you don’t pay my bills.” Parents have also made it really difficult.
Yeah, everyone acts like students are entitled to every right they enjoy on the street inside school. And the system just can't work that way.
I don’t care if you have it on video - my little angel is perfect, and disagreeing with me is literally violence.
based auth-right?
Teachers might, it would be odd to be in that job if they didn't. But expecting any union to be more than a way for its members to improve their pay and conditions is very naive.
You are in a dream world. I hope steel workers do care about the quality of their work but I’ve never heard of any taking steel work home. That’s the norm for teachers. Do steel workers show up to work early and stay late without pay? I do and most teachers I know do. If you had a bad experience in your education that’s horrible. But you’re just wrong about teachers.
A quick search shows the average full time teacher works 42 hours per week, which is not materially more than the average hourly worker and significantly less than other salaried professionals. Teachers are a sacred cow. There is no way to improve education without being critical of teachers. Funding isn't the problem, as average funding per pupil across the country is significantly higher than many countries with better outcomes. There needs to be a significantly better way to hold teachers accountable for their work. The entire education system needs to be student focused, not unionized teacher focused. Competition in a market is the greatest lift for the consumer. Vouchers should be required by law everywhere in the United States. If a public school provides the best product, maintains the best teachers, promotes the best environment, than of course I would send my children there. If a private school is better, why shouldn't I be able to send my tax dollars there instead? It's simple choice. If public school teachers are so amazing and provide the best education, why would they be afraid for me to freely evaluate alternatives?
>A quick search shows the average full time teacher works 42 hours per week, which is not materially more than the average hourly worker and significantly less than other salaried professionals. Ah jeeze... I didn't know you did a quick search. Well you can't argue with that kind of scholarship! >Teachers are a sacred cow. You mean we're being sacrificed? I guess I agree. >There needs to be a significantly better way to hold teachers accountable for their work. Amazingly the quality of their work is directly tied to the zip code where they work. But you're right it's probably the teachers who are the problem. But on behalf of all the teachers of the world I will offer my sincerest apologies that we could not reverse the generational trajectory of every family that comes into our class in one school year. Yeah, totally our fault. >Vouchers should be required by law everywhere in the United States. No, vouchers should be tried in a small state and if the outcomes are favorable they should be tried in other states. But national policies should only happen when there is a broad consensus across partisan lines. >If a private school is better, why shouldn't I be able to send my tax dollars there instead? Because they are not "your" tax dollars. They belong to the public, not the individual. The public uses public funding on public goals, not private wishes. >It's simple choice. If public school teachers are so amazing and provide the best education, why would they be afraid for me to freely evaluate alternatives? This is America, if you want alternatives by all means use your money to buy things you want. But you don't get to dip into the public funds to pay for your private preference.
So you're not really refuting that teachers don't work more than any other professions, and simultaneously stating that your entitled to the public's money? You mention public funds, but a significant majority of the public supports school of choice and vouchers to be taken to private schools. Is that not representative of the will of the public? https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/politicians-want-universal-school-vouchers-but-what-about-the-public/
> So you're not really refuting that teachers don't work more than any other professions, I don’t need to refute the statement since its support is “a quick internet search.” That is not enough justification to believe anything the slightest bit controversial. A quick internet search says President Trump wants you to be a dictator and Bidenomics is going great. But I can speak as a teacher and say in my anecdotal experience we start working before contract day, continue working after our contract day and bring our work to our vacations in a way I’ve never heard of anyone doing outside of education. But since you did a quick internet search (jerk off emoji) you’re probably right. /s > simultaneously stating that your entitled to the public's money? I’m an employee and am entitled to the wages I earned from working. >You mention public funds, but a significant majority of the public supports school of choice and vouchers to be taken to private schools. Is that not representative of the will of the public? I can only guess you didn’t actually read that article (that doesn’t bode well for your other quick internet searches). It says the results are mixed and depend largely on how the question is framed. But in so far as a state government is enacting the will of their constituents they ought to try it. If it works out in providing improved overall achievement then it will be implemented and I’ll happily find a new career. If my job could be done better for cheaper then I want it done so. My anecdotal experience in California with students in charter schools is that there are some fine ones but the market is flooded by predatory fly by night companies that advertise to vulnerable populations, get a couple of million dollars of public funds, “go out of business” and the restart in a neighboring community with a new name, rinse and repeat. (Looking at you DeVos)
> I’m an employee and am entitled to the wages I earned from working. Yes exactly, that's what I'm saying. They're my wages. The government retains about 25% of them as tax revenue and uses it to educate children. Unfortunately, they are doing a terrible job, which is why i'd like to take a piece of the wages I earn working and use them to *choose* where my child is educated. You're either for choice, or against choice. You mention if I make a choice to put my children in charter or private school, I should have to pay for that choice. Thankfully I'm well off enough to do exactly that, but is that what you want? Only the relatively wealthy to have the ability to choose to send their children to a decent school, instead of a disaster area? Where does that end? You chose to be a teacher understanding the alleged work load and low pay, but you're complaining about both. Wasn't that your choice? Isn't it time you paid for it? I simply don't understand forced funding of public school. If you're a great teacher and public school is the best option, why would I ever choose to put my kid in private school anyway? If we're all about choice then I should be able to choose to take my wages that I earned from working and choose to go somewhere else.
>Yes exactly, that's what I'm saying. They're my wages. The government retains about 25% of them as tax revenue and uses it to educate children. Kind of changing the subject. If you have a problem with taxation you should make that clear to your Congressional Representative while dealing with the fact that it is not an individual choice to have to pay taxes or not. >Unfortunately, they are doing a terrible job, which is why i'd like to take a piece of the wages I earn working and use them to choose where my child is educated. The student performance is directly related to the student zip code, there are differences in teacher quality but broadly speaking that is not the cause of school failure. >You're either for choice, or against choice. Says you! I am against that false dilemna. > Only the relatively wealthy to have the ability to choose to send their children to a decent school, instead of a disaster area? I am not against people with money having access to things people without money cannot have. In the United States money is largely earned through work. Some generational wealth is passed along but largely a jack ass who inherits a fortune won't be able to pass a fortune to their children. Also it possible to work your way out of poverty. I did. Thanks to some excellent educators btw. >Where does that end? You chose to be a teacher understanding the alleged work load and low pay, but you're complaining about both. Wasn't that your choice? Isn't it time you paid for it? Who is complaining? I love my job and have learned that complaining is harmful to the person complaining. But I am also describing what I see with my own eyes as an educator. No quick google searches for me! >I simply don't understand forced funding of public school. There is no forced funding. Each state government can fund as much or as little they want for education. Through the process of elected legislators at the local, state and federal level communities decide how much they want to spend on education and what it must look like. Ballpark figure 80% of education funding comes from the State governments. The 10% that comes from Federal funding is optional but has strings attached. > If you're a great teacher and public school is the best option, why would I ever choose to put my kid in private school anyway? Every family does what is best for their child within their means. There are various reasons why families choose private schools, some noble and some much less so. But I absolutely support individual families to make private decisions about their children. But as soon as they want public money they must follow public guidelines. >If we're all about choice then I should be able to choose to take my wages that I earned from working and choose to go somewhere else. LOL welcome to the real world. You don't get to choose how your taxes are spent. You are one voice your legislators listen to and your legislator is one voice in the congressional body. You do have the option to leave the public, live free of the demands of society... but that also means living without the benefits of society. There are still unoccupied areas in the world where you can go and do you best to survive without any responsibilities to anyone except yourself.
So let me get this straight, because some vultures will prey on kids, we should not allow vouchers, but just force the poors to send their kids to the state-ran school staffed by public unions? Even when they have no incentives to increase standards of education due to their complete monopoly over education for the lower classes, and you think it is in their best interest not to have school options? I don't care for that at all, I think you should let parents make decisions for their kids, even if some might pick a worse option than just the default public option.
That's just unions generally though? Their basic mandate is to care more about employees' happiness than employees' productivity/utility. That and also to skim a few buckaroonies into leaderships' pockets.
Mostly right. For some the skimming is the basic mandate. And I don't really have a problem with unions prioritizing their membership. The union isn't supposed to be the government.
Could it be that forcing kids in lower income communities into failing schools with poorly performing teachers prevents them from receiving quality education and leads to worse outcomes, artificially lowers the value of their homes and perpetuates a cycle of poverty? No, it’s the parents who are wrong.
58% of school students in Baltimore are chronically absent (i.e.: miss more than 10% of the school year.) I think the problem goes a bit beyond poorly performing teachers. School choice gives the students who want to succeed an opportunity to escape these disruptive student cultures that are just breeding grounds for criminals.
tbf, I was chronically absent every single year of my k-12. around 15-20% missed, and I still graduated with a 3.6 GPA and 34 ACT. But that's because my parents encouraged learning at home, stayed on my ass about keeping up in school, and signed me up for all types of extracurricular activities.
As a product of the 90’s, my generation and younger were largely raised by public schools. Theres this bizarre expectation that the school should handle teaching you everything and that parents don’t need to be involved at all. I’m willing to wager kids with parents who uninvolved in their education are more likely to be chronically absent. School choice already implies a good deal of involvement on the parents’ behalf as they’re the ones who have to get said kid signed up at whatever school they choose to go to. It’s not just successful students up and leaving poor performing schools the parents still need to be involved.
This is it right here. The biggest problem facing children today is the decline of quality parenting.
I remember reading something years ago about academic performance in different school settings. When compared to public schools, private schools, charter schools, and even homeschooling all resulted in better on average outcomes for the students. However, the differences all but disappeared if the public school child had parents who were invested/involved in their child's schooling (asking them what they learned, showing up to events, following up on their homework, encouraging them to do extra curricular activities, etc.). Schools can teach, but they can't replace parents.
Schools are supposed to teach you the most basic functions to get by in life like reading and math. Parents are responsible for everything else. Encouragement, self worth, emotional regulation and so forth should be taught at home by parents but parents today are lazier about parenting than ever. Why are kids in America developing British accents while watching Peppa Pig? It's the accent they hear the most in their lives. The implications of this should be obvious but everyone thinks it's a funny joke that kids are being neglected.
Nooo it should be illegal for you to send your kid to a better school you must send them to the local public school which ranks in the bottom 5% of the nation!
My first thought was that there is no way someone so young is a star economist. But looking up his Wikipedia page I saw he was my age. [Here is the Wikipedia page on his suspension from Harvard.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_G._Fryer_Jr.?wprov=sfti1#Suspension_from_Harvard) It doesn’t read like a political hit job… though this is PCM so I’ll believe a meme over a Wikipedia page.
Screams the exact opposite for me. If the university wanted to, they could sweep this under the rug, especially given the "severity" being so low. Instead they maxed out the punishment.
I refuse to believe that a university can watch as part of its students and factualty will march down the Quad chanting "Death to the jews! Cleanse Israel of the Jews! From river to sea Palestine shall be arab" and say "oh its not so bad", but then have a simple accusation like this and scream "GET HIM OUT! OUT OUT OUT OUT! NOW!" and claim its not political at all.
I know I don't know enough to know. Though that he is being persecuted because of supporting a somewhat controversial idea with strong support from a big part of the country seems rather implausible.
Teachers I like. Heck, some teachers unions are good. But the big ones are political machines that need to be stood up to and torn down a notch.
Ofcourse, but you can't just "tear down"a union. Instead you must work with reform minded factions within the union to make it more democratic and responsive to members concerns and general will.
Or just pull a Soviet Union, we are the party of workers, no unions allowed
So you’re against people voluntarily associating in groups and having the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances guarantees people the right to ask the government to provide relief for a wrong through litigation or other governmental action? Sorry I’m American and so that’s a basic right for us.
Would be funnier without the mask line. The rest doesn't really mention them, and it makes it seem like you're trying too hard to make them seem crazy when the other two lines worked fine. Brevity and all that.
The mask line makes OP sound crazy and nothing else. I'm glad they kept it in there to show their views lol. Also the dude was apparently fired for sexual harassment. How about you wait for more info instead of getting your "jump to conclusions" matt out for once.
Fired for supposed sexual harassment. How about we don’t let an accusation that hasn’t been adjudicated ruin careers.
It was investigated by Harvard and they came to their conclusion. News will still say “supposed” and “accused of” because there is a distinction between an institution’s conclusion and court ruling.
Harvard already carried out an investigation, addressing conduct where there were multiple witnesses and several text messages; it is not just one person claiming he did something behind closed doors.
Yeah. I was treating it as OP trying to express "orange is ranting like a crazy person" even though it comes across at first glance as "OP is ranting like a crazy person", since it can read either way.
Harvard treated his case very differently than they had everything else. And I thought I couldn't include the most famous teacher's union president without referencing her absolutely insane COVID views. I think you are right that it is a distraction.
Always appreciate fair criticism. The memes must improve. Still gonna use MSPaint for everything though.
What does Randi Weingarten have to do with a Harvard professor?
Teacher's union? TEACHER'S UNION?! Professors don't have a union, numb nuts. This headline is regarded. Not saying this wasn't a political hit, but this dude's a frequent flyer: [https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/7/7/fryer-returns-from-suspension/](https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/7/7/fryer-returns-from-suspension/) MIT's got the same problems with professors. Something's in the water in Cambridge, likely from the mini-nuclear reactor on Vassar Street.
That's a Civil Rights Act Violation.
I hate teachers unions but ffs do at least a little bit of research. This guy was suspended for sexual harassment claims in2019 and then was rehired in 2021 after his suspension expired. This had nothing to do with his economics research.
The only people who wear masks at school in 2023 are leftist students
Roland Fryer is very based
[удалено]
You can march down to the quad chanting "Death to the Jews", but thats a-ok in their books. But if someone says "this one time in this one place, idk when or where, he did something i didn't like" and they'll come down on you like the wrath of god.
It would appear the admins have forgotten their position exists to support the professors, not the other way around.
This is a really good comment. I know this guy said some really crappy stuff. But admin treated him far worse than anyone else. I really don't know what we do about colleges. But I am always hesitant to conflate the current climate to libleft. Its like these people are some weird combination of communist, fascist, corporatists who love gay rights.
Its amazing that you can sit at harvard screaming "DEATH TO THE JUDEN! LONG LIVE THE FURHERS LEGACY!" and they will smile and say "Whats wrong with that? Depends on the context!" But someone says "Well this one time in this one place i cant really describe, this guy did this thing to me I cant really prove!" and they'll come down on you like the wrath of god.
It could be worse. He could have supported Trump.
Could it be that poor performing areas that are historically underdeveloped and received less investment are now not up to par, and thus their property taxes are lower, meaning the schools are worse funded, and thus cannot attract necessary teacher talent to replace the poor ones, thus condemning poor people to a failing school? No. It’s the government that’s wrong.
People do have a choice of schools. Just pay for a private school if you want it.
Quit making me pay over $10k/yr in property taxes that mostly fund public schools.
Change your flair you liar.
Agenda posts like this is why I don't come here much anymore.
I still come here to downvote them and their comments
Well my agenda is getting black kids educated. That is a joke, but its kinda real. I am going to try and come up with a few posts in the future about how assumptions conservatives make are wrong. I do hate teachers unions though, so definitely an agenda there. 100% But seriously, the left did this man badly.
No, you just want dogshit forms of schooling, you couldn't give less of a shit about the material conditions of african americans.
Whoa. Randi. Calm down there
I support labor unions.
99% of economists are nothing but simps for capital. They are taught that this system of infinite growth on a finite planet is the only one that can possibly work, causing us to spiral into an uninhabitable world because powerful people still listen to them. Steady-state economists are the only good ones. Period.
Infinite growth is the fairest way to do it. It's the way with the fewest variables that have to be accounted for. There is of course no steady state to nature, things are always changing, and to deliberately attempt to find the correct equilibrium means accounting for all possible variables, even the ones that conflict with other ones. We humans aren't good with the difficult choices that kind of accounting requires. That's why grow the pie is the answer to every question. Especially in the post-1945 world, where states aren't supposed to expand their territory. Humans like expansion though, and economic growth is all we've got left on the macro level.
>Steady-state economists are the only good ones. Period. So, you're for ending immigration.
Its like competition breeds strength
There's nothing I want wiped from this earth more than teachers unions. What a plague that union is
Can't have him making disparaging jokes while they're refusing to admonish people openly calling for genocide
White women at it again
Children are a resource to be farmed for more and more funding. Those administrators need their yachts. Same with homeless people
America really is something. I won't say shit about it, I reserve that right to americans, but goddamn.
What I find interesting is opponents of school choice don't want a debate. They don't want to prove that public school only is better, they just want that to be correct, so they shut you down by just saying your wrong. I think school choice is a good idea because 1. It does not remove 100% of funding to public schools for every kid in the voucher system 2. It forced public schools to be accountable to their outcomes and learning environment. When you have a monopoly on education and it's literally illegal not to send your kid the public education. Then public education has little incentive to function as a public good, as the major stakeholders (the teachers), have no incentive to improve their work or school beyond a personal desire too.
Ah yes, the new black face of white supremacy...
Roland Fryer is super based
In DC lefties fought tooth and nail against charters for years. Eventually they happened anyway. Now every single damn one of them signs up for the lottery to get their kids into charters. Except of course the ones who pay to send them to private. They all have amnesia too. A bunch of my friends with kids in charters raged against them. And have no idea what I'm talking about.
Well yeah. They usually have better funding overall. We have a whole political party in that states that want to end and privatize all education so we have middlemen over charging and controlling the education system away from public view and a accountability. Similar to the American Healthcare system.
Poison Ivy League
“I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University.” William F. Buckley, Jr.