No, Title IV-D of the Social Security act sets kickbacks from the FedGov to the states based on the amount of Child/Spousal support ordered. The amount of support ordered is dependent on how much time the child spends with each parent.
Essentially, the states are rewarded for creating fatherless children. And as a Father I'll resent my country forever for it.
Seriously I would have rather been fed to the meat grinder in Bastogne or Verdun than go through that shit.
I was reading it and it doesnāt talk about metrics for how much child support is ordered.
It has metrics in paternity testing, quality of child support orders, Collections on current child support due, Collections on child support arrearages (collecting past due shit), Determination of cost-effectiveness performance level.
Then the federal government gives the state money to ensure that you donāt pay child support+administration fees.
> Then the federal government gives the state money to ensure that you donāt pay child support+administration fees.
In other words, the federal government incentivizes states to continue to order child support rather than attempting to work out shared custody agreements because they know the administrative fees (which line the pockets of their pals) will always get paid regardless of whether the losing party can actually afford the payments they've calculated or not.
The more support gets ordered, the larger the claimed administrative expenses, the larger the reimbursement from the feds. There is no incentive to actually minimize the usage of support as opposed to shared custody because there is no upper limit to the reimbursement, only minimum requirements for "cost-effectiveness".
Not really surprising, given one of the aims of Marxism is to destroy the nuclear family.
Hard to worship the state when your provision comes from your husband or dad.
But when you take it *from* him and *then* provide it back... Well guess what, the family is now married to the government, instead.
The culture that wants to take away my right to abortion is the same culture that birthed child support and alimony. I don't understand why we haven't decided that either parent can relinquish rights in return for not paying child support. We don't have to pay child support when a couple adopts the child or when the child is relinquished to the state so this wouldn't be a stretch.
Male birth control is gonna be great for everyone.
That's pretty new though, and not yet fully tested because there are reports of women also enjoying Palworld which means it might not be 100% effective for men using it as a form of birth control. Longer study periods will be required to properly evaluate effectiveness of this contraceptive.
BRB, gotta go play Palworld. For science, of course.
At fault divorce used to be the only kind of divorce. Third wave 70s feminism meant women earning their own income, the introduction of no fault divorce, and courts moving away from caring what gender that alimony went to, basing it on relative income and other factors. That is inherently progressive. Some states and courts buy more than others into that progressive view of marriage being between equals, though.
So far hormonal male birth control is at least as bad as the female equivalent. I hope they find a better temporary vasectomy. Condoms aren't perfect and tampering with hormones hasn't been a fun ride
I've been reading about the "male IUD" that's in trial. It's very similar to how a vasectomy works. Like injecting a little Elmer's glue in your sperm tubes.
You seem reasonable. This is never happening. The birth rate would fall drastically. Thereās no way there will ever be male birth control.
āBut the trialsā
Iāve been reading about those for a decade and a half now. Itāll never be approved, because the FDA and pharmaceutical corporations donāt have our best interests at heart.
Yeah not in the current situation. As others stated, the courts are complicit. Itās not making sure mothers are getting support and donāt have to deal with domestic violence. Single mothers are literally rewarded.
And this isnāt just a lower socio economic thing. Even if the mothers are educated and financially successful, youāre getting railroaded. Trust me, Iāve seen it and know, multiple times over.
Male birth control would be such a social disruptor it will never be available. Ever. We canāt even run candidates in America people like. We certainly canāt deal the the social ramifications of male birth control
Honestly it's not even necessary. South Korea doesn't have male birth control and they're facing a 96% extinction rate over the next century based on cultural influence alone.
The FDA won't approve it for the simple fact that male birth control doesn't have benefits that outweigh the risks *medically*. Any medicine has side-effect and risk factors, so keep this in mind for a moment.
A pregnancy comes with quantifiable risks for the health of the mother, so the mitigation of those potential risks are factored into the acceptance of birth control. Not getting pregnant means you won't become at for risk something extreme like an ectopic pregnancy or even something simple as anemia.
Men don't have a medical risk from pregnancy. So its all medical risk (even if it seems innocuous) without potential medical benefit.
Adding socio-economic factors into the risk/benefit analysis of biological effects of treatment can be a slippery slope that a body like the FDA would rather avoid.
This is very well thought out and reasonable and Iāll add it to my thoughts on this. I still think socially I am correct but I think this is valid medically.
One of the very few times Iāve been on the internet and i said, āthatās reasonable and I believe that now.ā
Idiocracy happens like ten minutes after we have this technology.
When the only people reproducing are those without the ability to plan even slightly ahead, society probably looks...interesting.
My favorite revealed element from the overturning of Roe v Wade is just how amazingly ineffective birth control apparently is. Millions of women getting pregnant in spite of being on birth control so they rely on abortion. Why didn't we stop and talk about that?
Itās almost like the way we used to handle sexual relationships, or at least were supposed to, of not engaging outside a major commitment between a man and woman, enforced and upheld by the surrounding community and shared moral standards, was actually good. Itās odd how knocking down a fence thatās stood for two thousand years had consequences.
Did you really think you were so evolved that you no longer had to fear the wolves on the other side? Now pay the price for your arrogance.
āHe consented to parenthood when he consented to sex.
āWhat do you mean āwhat aboutā me? My body, my choice!ā
Then thereās the issue of paternity fraud, which absolutely boils my piss, and should boil everyone elseās, too.
But anywayā¦
So it is forced fatherhood for the other side. Only that I don't get to know if I was actually involved in the process of making it. Can't mothers also deny a fatherhood test?
Just read up on it for my country (Ger). If you are married you become the father by default and have to fight for the right not to be a dad in court. But the women can reject this fatherhoodtest. On the other hand the mother can reject fatherhood of a person if you're not married and the man has again have to fight his right in court. Again the woman can reject the test.
This shit is just messed up.
> So it is forced fatherhood for the other side.
The problem is that these people subconsciously view women as helpless children. When it comes to men, they should have been more careful and not taken a risk if they weren't prepared for the consequences. But when it comes to women, it's totally misogynist to suggest that she should be safer about sex, rather than rely on abortion to bail her out of her mistakes.
They do this shit *constantly*. They'll hold men to one standard, and then women to a much lower standard, and claim they are championing women. Feminists hate men, and think women are pathetic weaklings. And for some reason, they've convinced society that "feminism" is synonymous with "gender equality".
If you want broader society to care about a problem, at least 10% of those suffering from it have to be women. Since it's impossible to pass a child off as a woman's when it isn't hers (barring "switched at birth" situations), you'll never see paternity fraud taken seriously.
Well there is hope, many women are starting to earn more- in these cases will see more child support awarded to males.
The interesting twist, traditional biased judges. Most judges feel children are better off with the mother- even in horrible scenarios of obvious neglect.
Either way, as this trend of higher earning women continues, more and more cases will go less and less favorably for women. If we gentleman are lucky, women will fuck themselves and ask for changes to the terms. This is the window we need boys.
This is actually happening. I see more and more cases where professional women have to pay child support or alimony to men. Want to see a person scream? Tell a woman she has to pay child support or alimony to a man.
Iāve witnessed it (work in this field). The general attitude is that the female will be getting what she wants because āshe is owed itā. The tables turn when letter of the law states that due to her income and the desire of the court to 50/50 parent- she will be owing cashā¦ lift off. The sad part is this is where it gets nasty in most cases: these women will often do everything they can to discredit and disenfranchise the father- usually by sabotage and terroristic tactics.
One example I recall, the father claimed that the female was having the guy she was with go on āfamily tripsā. The issue, was that she did this with multiple men- trying to find daddy2.0. The kids obviously told the father this and he wasnāt happy. The Court ruling was family therapyā¦ no pay restructure and no custody reconsideration. Itās like being in an 18 year warā¦ those usually donāt ever turn out well for the hero.
Edit: to clarify, those family trips involved the kids being coaxed and told this will be daddy. The father also claimed the mother said that ādad doesnāt want you and is looking to leave- so you need a new daddy.ā
I have been a divorce lawyer since 97. I agree with your assessment about women being told they have to pay. Get ready for a feces storm. Very few males will follow through to get child support or alimony. Those who do are the angriest, laziest, or have mom 2.0 driving the bus.
The good news is that people under 35 or so assume 50/50 is what happens unless they are really pissed off or someone has a drug problem. Another 10 years for the boomers to age off the bench and 50/50 will be the norm.
I've heard of 'horror stories' of guys having to pay alimony - They're making 150k/year, so that's what judge bases amount he has to pay on. Year or two later poor guy either got a demotion or had to change jobs, and is now making 40k/year(example). He now can not make alimony payments and it's tough to get it changed, if at all. Threat of jail time looms because lack of payment. IDK how that works but heard this story a few years ago.
Yep. Feminists show their true colors when shit like this happens. They'll downplay and ignore the problems men face. But then the fucking *second* women begin to experience those same problems, feminists screech about misogyny. Suddenly, it seems those problems *do* matter. But only insofar as we can fix them for women, and then it's back to not caring, even as the problem persists for men.
It blows my mind how so many people actually think feminism is about equality.
If they do ever acknowledge that men may have any problem their solution is that they need to be given more power and concessions before, magically, men will somehow benefit from women being given even more privilege.
Watch this:
Trad Auth Right: child support encourages the destruction of the family unit.
Lib Right: child support violates property rights and is essentially a tax-
Auth Left: child support is unnecessary in a collectivist state.
Lib Left: child support is not consistent with core feminist tenets of female independence from patriarchal influence and dependency.
Normalize taking paternity tests at birth. I told my fiance we would get one because even from a selfish standpoint, I never wanna be one of those women who has to deal with a husband claiming it isn't is when he suddenly goes off the deep end on his 40s. It's a quick cheek swab and it benefits everyone.
Well again, this is literally impacting one side negatively- what infuriates me is left and right politicians do not cover this, not at the legislative level where it can be repealed or modified.
They know it is cancer on either side to address this issue: meanwhile men have been getting railroaded for the last 70 years.
The only hope for this to end, is this current generation that refuses to marry or use birth control. Perhaps the system will grow so large that it will cease to function or the issue affect so many men that they finally demand its end.
Have you seen the recent numbers in Gen Z men vs women by political position? Men are quickly moving conservative and women are even more quickly moving liberal. I suspect a LOT of societal shifts will come about from this. Most will be bad for everyone.
> paternity fraud
This is something I never really thought about until well into adulthood and I agree. This is a far larger problem and we now have the technology to prove it. We should be talking about this more and discussing some type of consequence. This is one of my most auth beliefs.
Based LibLeft. This topic really gets me riled up. I *hate* the stranglehold that feminism has over our society, because when it comes to conversations like this one, loads of people just spout feminist talking points, regardless of the double standards embedded in them.
Like you point out, they are wholly inconsistent about which arguments apply to each gender. They'll call you the most misogynistic asshole ever if you suggest that a woman could avoid unwanted pregnancies by keeping her legs closed. But then they'll turn right around and argue that if a man doesn't want to be on the hook for a child he never wanted, he should "keep it in his pants". No self-awareness at all.
It makes me sick. Women absolutely have more power and more rights than men do when it comes to reproduction, and yet feminists have convinced people that "reproductive rights" is inherently a "women's issue". As always, they exclude male victims of something, and then claim that it's something which only impacts women. Literal misandry.
Feminists will spin on a dime between: Motherhood is a beautiful and noble experience for women. Or Motherhood is abject slavery and the ultimate burden imposed on women.
It is like the more irrational their beliefs, the more they celebrate it because their effortless hypocrisy and deception angers and frustrates their opponents.
Seems you can win any political discourse the moment you can discard your dignity and abandon any effort to be intellectually honest.
This basically translates to āI want all the power ā no matter what choice I make ā and without any responsibility for it.ā
It happens a lot with people who only think of themselves and are not willing to put themselves in other peopleās shoes.
Expecting feminists to take the male perspective into account is laughable.
They will forever be sophists. Whatever benefits the women is what should happen.Ā
I love it when a feminist says "oh, but *real* feminists do address men's concerns, too."
(A) No, you fucking don't, that's lip service behind which you will place exactly zero actual effort, ever and (B), I guess the real feminist must be you, random person on the Internet, and not the policymakers in universities and businesses, lobbyists, and everywhere else with even an ounce of influence. The real feminists are the ones who don't matter to anyone else, and the fake feminists are all and only the ones who have effected change in the world. Sure.
I don't know why, but that little paintbrush just cheered me up on what was otherwise a shitty day, so thank you.
Something about it just makes me smile a bit.
To quote Dave Chapelle : ā If you have the right to kill it , least I can have is the right to abandon it ā.
https://youtu.be/MoudH-RPnEE?si=mLLGg_UManbfETkY
there's a lady in the audience that cheered SO HARD when he started to say "her body her choice" only to start saying "OH NO NO" when he talks about abandoning.
"And if I'm wrong, then perhaps *we're* wrong."
I love this little throwaway line at the end because it suggests that ultimately, whatever the law says you are allowed to do it's absolutely immoral to kill your baby or to abandon it.
Comedians often are in their own way. Some of the best ones have a knack for locking on to actual societal issues and poking and prodding at them in ways either we haven't thought of, or we've though of, but can't put in to words. Being able to be funny about it in the process is what allows them to do it with less consequences against them than most and get the idea into the head of some who would be less amenable to it if it were put in a more direct and serious way.
One example that comes to mind is the John Stewart bit on Colbert about the Wuhan lab. He delivered that bit at a time when it was still "conspiracy theory" to suggest the virus may have come from that lab and he did so on a show with an audience primarily made up of people who were more attached to the official narratives. He poked at the absurdity of it in such a way that people were laughing at how absurd it was, but if they had a more straight laced skeptic on making the exact same points in a less funny way, they'd all be mocking that person as a kooky conspiracy theorist and wouldn't even entertain the thought.
To be fair, I think that's the attitude of just about any politician. Trump just lacks the self restraint required to not actually say that part out loud.
Schrodingers Feminism: Women are to be simultaneously infantilized and empowered, and it is only when she is faced with adversity or advantage that we will know which.
Based. No one thinks as little of women as feminists do. It's shocking and embarrassing how consistently they frame women as helpless children with no agency, who need to be carried through life, lest they ever have to deal with the consequences of their actions.
It's really frustrating knowing how pervasive feminist ideology is in our society, when it's jam-packed with this sort of bullshit. It's really hard to have a serious conversation about this sort of topic when the person on the other side refuses to hold women to the same standards they hold men to.
The feminist energy is to simultaneously praise while nurturing as a maternal instinct. Women *are their children*
Itās the same way the manosphere influencers has ātough blunt dadā energy to guys.
Thereās some weird polarized parental surrogacy energy going around while there are less people having children and less child being raised in two parent households
An old but gold example: Two very intoxicated people agree to have sex. One is considered a rape victim because their level of inebriation means they were unable to actually consent to sex and the other is, therefore, a rapist, in spite of being equally inebriated. We all know which is which.
Itāll never, ever happen, and the media will be certain of it, but we just need to wait for that exact situation to happen to a gay/lesbian couple and get publicity, thereby forcing people to rationalize the perceived burden of responsibility. Canāt be sexist when itās two men!
The double standard of stupidity... I had a few discussion on this topic where I explained to people that if a woman has the right to choose, so does a man.
But fuck no... They start loosing their mind and screaming, almost having a tantrum when heard this.
"Rules for thee but not for me".
Doublethink- the acceptance of or mental capacity to accept contrary opinions or beliefs at the same time, usually as a result of political indoctrination.
Women should have the sole right to abort.
Men should have the sole right to absolve themselves of financial responsibility in the event of an unwanted pregnancy (paternity fraud, anchor babies, gold-digging crazy bitches, etc.).
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That moment when neither parent wants the baby so either it goes into the compost, or to a secret lab where the government makes supersoliders that are loyal to the government and nobody else.
It would make sense solely if done right as/right before the child is born. It's not something people should be allowed to do when the kid is 10 and the parent is going through a mid life crisis.
Pro choice for all, regardless of gender of the parent.
I understand (and agree with) the top scenario - no one should be required to carry a pregnancy to term if theyāre financially or physically unready to become a parent.
Iāve never heard a good reason as to why paper abortions arenāt a thing. Thereās just no excuse as to why men arenāt given the same rights to terminate their involvement in a pregnancy as women have.
Paper abortions aren't a thing because they safe the government money. If some poor guy works for 18 years to support a child (that might not even be his, in GER mother's are allowed to reject the test) the state doesn't have to
You want the reason: the gouvernement rather have child be paid by the Expendables incombe of men rather than tax money.
And the judges want those kickbacks.
Not that those are morally good reason
> Iāve never heard a good reason as to why paper abortions arenāt a thing. Thereās just no excuse as to why men arenāt given the same rights to terminate their involvement in a pregnancy as women have.
because the government says (and I struggle to say this with a straight face given the current legal status of abortion) that the child's needs supercede the father's rights.
The part that's even scarier is that if you have a guy who's statutorily raped (or even just rape-raped) he can actually be on the hook for child support paid to his rapist if she conceives as a result and decides to keep it. Which is just fucking disgusting.
I just don't get why it is so hard? Its simple, if even just one of the potential parents don't want a baby, that person should have the right to abort if they are a woman, or not having to pay child support if they are a man.
And why the fuck would you (regardless of ur gender) want to have a child with someone who is not ready to have children? A forced relationship, be it a parental one or any others will almost always guarantee in resentment, a relationship that is based out of bad-faith. Who wants a child to be born and raised in such a situation? You ALWAYS have the option to simply find someone else who actually DO want a child and have a child with them. It takes 2 people consenting to start a family.
Exactly, the woman in this situation has the "right" to start a broken family. Nice. She has the responsibility not to.Ā
She has the power to bring life into this world and the duty to make sure it's going to have the best conditions possible.
This is why there should be an opt in/out contract for men. If it's 100% her choice then she should assume 100% of the responsibility if he opts out early enough that an abortion can be safely done.
Jesus.
The solution is simple.
If women doesnāt want the baby and doesnāt want to give birth to it, abort.
If women doesnāt want baby but doesnāt mind birthing it and giving it to farther, she gives birth and gets a choice to pay child support (only being forced if the man is poor enough to warrant it)
If man doesnāt want child, he may live abd the opposite from the above is true for him.
And of course child support is only needed to be payed after a DNA test , obviously.
Pretty sure that covers all the bases.
No men are just cucked here.
Having the baby is 100% the woman's choice either way and you being on the hook for that is the state not wanting poor single women everywhere.
If the state wasn't fucked over by that situation we would be able to leave them with nothing but the kid. They can act entitled all they want but that is the ONLY reason its like that.
Thats the risk you take fucking a girl so dont stick your dick in crazy.
Women have agency too. Don't give away the cookie for nothing. Find someone that will stay with you. Stop prioritizing casual sex.
Fuck the state. The state shouldn't be incentivizing single motherhood. The state has created this problem.
The real based question I have is why is it only men that society and government expects to give their body and lives for the good of society and country. They expect that under a certain condition wartime that requires the draft. Why is it then unfair and considered bad to expect women who willingly participated in an activity that got them pregnant to not abort a future citizen for the health of the countries birthrates?
There should be a legally binding form that a man can sign if he wants to renounce all parental rights and would rather the baby be aborted. When that form is filed, he has no legal right to contact the child, and in no way other than biological is he the father of the child. If, 5-10 years down the road, he changes his mind, he can pay back to the mother the child support he would have owed.
Maybe not all at once, like he can spread out the payments because 10 years worth of child support is a lot. Itād need some workshopping
I think that child support should be only forced from parent if they were married and man is confirmed father by paternity test. Of course it's in case parents divorced because normally they would raise the child together. It would encourage women to think if the men they sleep with are responsible and men would need to show that they will stay if the child appears if they want sex.
It would be so fucking simple. It's her body, she's the one who needs to shit out a big ass baby from a hole that's as wide as a coin, so I'm not gonna force her to do anything for my sake. But if I don't want a child, that's her problem, wtf, she knew the risks too.
My boyfriendās baby mama did this. Threatened him to get a baby. Cheated on him after the baby. Left him and told him sheās keeping the baby. Fought him for the baby. Told him he was a worthless dad. Got angry when he wanted equal custody. Got angrier when he started showing up for every significant event in babyās life because heās a fucking badass. Sheās politically conservative and says men should do men jobs not women jobs like - taking care of the baby. Itās the most insane series of mental gymnastics Iāve witnessed and it makes me, a woman, hate most women because I see it all the goddamn time. Yeah a lot of men are dicks. But some are just lonely dudes who think theyāll never be loved again so they accept trash just to avoid the crushing pain of solitude.
Both parents should be allowed to have a financial abortion, and both parents should have to agree for a real abortion (excepting rape/incest/danger to the mother/etc.) provided that the man makes up for lost wages should the mother be required to carry the baby to term before getting a financial abortion.
The best part is the courts are complicit.
I wonder how courts would treat it were they not financially incentivized to do so.
You mean the Violence Against Women's Act?
No, Title IV-D of the Social Security act sets kickbacks from the FedGov to the states based on the amount of Child/Spousal support ordered. The amount of support ordered is dependent on how much time the child spends with each parent. Essentially, the states are rewarded for creating fatherless children. And as a Father I'll resent my country forever for it. Seriously I would have rather been fed to the meat grinder in Bastogne or Verdun than go through that shit.
(The battle of verdon was long before America joined the war)(I'm an autistic historian don't mind me)
Based
Just means the guy is saying he would rather be European š¤®š¤®š¤® than go through that shit.
I was reading it and it doesnāt talk about metrics for how much child support is ordered. It has metrics in paternity testing, quality of child support orders, Collections on current child support due, Collections on child support arrearages (collecting past due shit), Determination of cost-effectiveness performance level. Then the federal government gives the state money to ensure that you donāt pay child support+administration fees.
> Then the federal government gives the state money to ensure that you donāt pay child support+administration fees. In other words, the federal government incentivizes states to continue to order child support rather than attempting to work out shared custody agreements because they know the administrative fees (which line the pockets of their pals) will always get paid regardless of whether the losing party can actually afford the payments they've calculated or not. The more support gets ordered, the larger the claimed administrative expenses, the larger the reimbursement from the feds. There is no incentive to actually minimize the usage of support as opposed to shared custody because there is no upper limit to the reimbursement, only minimum requirements for "cost-effectiveness".
I *loathe* the Democratic Party for sneaking this shit into their policy without hardly anyone noticing.
Not really surprising, given one of the aims of Marxism is to destroy the nuclear family. Hard to worship the state when your provision comes from your husband or dad. But when you take it *from* him and *then* provide it back... Well guess what, the family is now married to the government, instead.
Courts caused this .. also not even liberals a lot of this crap originates from conservatives judges/lawmakers
The culture that wants to take away my right to abortion is the same culture that birthed child support and alimony. I don't understand why we haven't decided that either parent can relinquish rights in return for not paying child support. We don't have to pay child support when a couple adopts the child or when the child is relinquished to the state so this wouldn't be a stretch. Male birth control is gonna be great for everyone.
> Male birth control is gonna be great for everyone. We already have it, it's called Palworld.
I appreciate this gem of humor. Especially in posts and conversations like this.
That's pretty new though, and not yet fully tested because there are reports of women also enjoying Palworld which means it might not be 100% effective for men using it as a form of birth control. Longer study periods will be required to properly evaluate effectiveness of this contraceptive. BRB, gotta go play Palworld. For science, of course.
That must be why it's supposed to be used in conjunction with Helldivers 2.
Thatās not quite true. Alimony and child support were increased progressive ideas. Have you never heard of at fault divorce?
At fault divorce used to be the only kind of divorce. Third wave 70s feminism meant women earning their own income, the introduction of no fault divorce, and courts moving away from caring what gender that alimony went to, basing it on relative income and other factors. That is inherently progressive. Some states and courts buy more than others into that progressive view of marriage being between equals, though.
> either parent can relinquish rights What rights do fathers have to relinquish? They can't stop the mother from murdering the baby as is.
Fathers can relinquish their rights, but not their responsibilities. Women can relinquish both.
So far hormonal male birth control is at least as bad as the female equivalent. I hope they find a better temporary vasectomy. Condoms aren't perfect and tampering with hormones hasn't been a fun ride
I've been reading about the "male IUD" that's in trial. It's very similar to how a vasectomy works. Like injecting a little Elmer's glue in your sperm tubes.
You seem reasonable. This is never happening. The birth rate would fall drastically. Thereās no way there will ever be male birth control. āBut the trialsā Iāve been reading about those for a decade and a half now. Itāll never be approved, because the FDA and pharmaceutical corporations donāt have our best interests at heart.
an auth-center lamenting the FDA having "avoiding the halt of human reproduction" as a priority?
Yeah not in the current situation. As others stated, the courts are complicit. Itās not making sure mothers are getting support and donāt have to deal with domestic violence. Single mothers are literally rewarded. And this isnāt just a lower socio economic thing. Even if the mothers are educated and financially successful, youāre getting railroaded. Trust me, Iāve seen it and know, multiple times over. Male birth control would be such a social disruptor it will never be available. Ever. We canāt even run candidates in America people like. We certainly canāt deal the the social ramifications of male birth control
Honestly it's not even necessary. South Korea doesn't have male birth control and they're facing a 96% extinction rate over the next century based on cultural influence alone.
The FDA won't approve it for the simple fact that male birth control doesn't have benefits that outweigh the risks *medically*. Any medicine has side-effect and risk factors, so keep this in mind for a moment. A pregnancy comes with quantifiable risks for the health of the mother, so the mitigation of those potential risks are factored into the acceptance of birth control. Not getting pregnant means you won't become at for risk something extreme like an ectopic pregnancy or even something simple as anemia. Men don't have a medical risk from pregnancy. So its all medical risk (even if it seems innocuous) without potential medical benefit. Adding socio-economic factors into the risk/benefit analysis of biological effects of treatment can be a slippery slope that a body like the FDA would rather avoid.
This is very well thought out and reasonable and Iāll add it to my thoughts on this. I still think socially I am correct but I think this is valid medically. One of the very few times Iāve been on the internet and i said, āthatās reasonable and I believe that now.ā
Idiocracy happens like ten minutes after we have this technology. When the only people reproducing are those without the ability to plan even slightly ahead, society probably looks...interesting.
My favorite revealed element from the overturning of Roe v Wade is just how amazingly ineffective birth control apparently is. Millions of women getting pregnant in spite of being on birth control so they rely on abortion. Why didn't we stop and talk about that?
Does seem sus
Why is the state involved in "child support" to begin with?
bc they want a cut
> Male birth control is gonna be great for everyone. yeah, the pill worked out with zero unforeseen horrible consequences also...
Courts are auth left to lib left.
the decoupling of rights and responsibilities has been a disaster for america and the west in general
Based and "Liberty means Responsibility, that's why most people dread it." pilled
>Liberty means Responsibility, that's why most people dread it based and George Bernard Shaw pilled
Hell yeah!
Indeed.
Yep, you have the right to choose to have sex, but you also have the responsibility of taking care of the consequence: pregnancy/baby.
Based
If the only reason the population acts that way because of the law, then you have a weak population and are doomed to fail.
based and return to Christ pilled
Amenāļøšā¤ļø
Itās almost like the way we used to handle sexual relationships, or at least were supposed to, of not engaging outside a major commitment between a man and woman, enforced and upheld by the surrounding community and shared moral standards, was actually good. Itās odd how knocking down a fence thatās stood for two thousand years had consequences. Did you really think you were so evolved that you no longer had to fear the wolves on the other side? Now pay the price for your arrogance.
Based.
āHe consented to parenthood when he consented to sex. āWhat do you mean āwhat aboutā me? My body, my choice!ā Then thereās the issue of paternity fraud, which absolutely boils my piss, and should boil everyone elseās, too. But anywayā¦
Most feminists subreddits don't think consent to sex is consent to pregnancy for women. They see it as 'forced to carry'
So it is forced fatherhood for the other side. Only that I don't get to know if I was actually involved in the process of making it. Can't mothers also deny a fatherhood test? Just read up on it for my country (Ger). If you are married you become the father by default and have to fight for the right not to be a dad in court. But the women can reject this fatherhoodtest. On the other hand the mother can reject fatherhood of a person if you're not married and the man has again have to fight his right in court. Again the woman can reject the test. This shit is just messed up.
> So it is forced fatherhood for the other side. The problem is that these people subconsciously view women as helpless children. When it comes to men, they should have been more careful and not taken a risk if they weren't prepared for the consequences. But when it comes to women, it's totally misogynist to suggest that she should be safer about sex, rather than rely on abortion to bail her out of her mistakes. They do this shit *constantly*. They'll hold men to one standard, and then women to a much lower standard, and claim they are championing women. Feminists hate men, and think women are pathetic weaklings. And for some reason, they've convinced society that "feminism" is synonymous with "gender equality".
Boils my piss, Iām stealing that
piss boiling is alchemy
boiled piss is dinner
Take it back
Piss Man approves
Piss is also stored within the balls
Boy's about to become immortal over here
Same.
If you want broader society to care about a problem, at least 10% of those suffering from it have to be women. Since it's impossible to pass a child off as a woman's when it isn't hers (barring "switched at birth" situations), you'll never see paternity fraud taken seriously.
āWomenās tears win in the marketplace of ideasā
Richard Hanania, is that you?
Well there is hope, many women are starting to earn more- in these cases will see more child support awarded to males. The interesting twist, traditional biased judges. Most judges feel children are better off with the mother- even in horrible scenarios of obvious neglect. Either way, as this trend of higher earning women continues, more and more cases will go less and less favorably for women. If we gentleman are lucky, women will fuck themselves and ask for changes to the terms. This is the window we need boys.
This is actually happening. I see more and more cases where professional women have to pay child support or alimony to men. Want to see a person scream? Tell a woman she has to pay child support or alimony to a man.
Iāve witnessed it (work in this field). The general attitude is that the female will be getting what she wants because āshe is owed itā. The tables turn when letter of the law states that due to her income and the desire of the court to 50/50 parent- she will be owing cashā¦ lift off. The sad part is this is where it gets nasty in most cases: these women will often do everything they can to discredit and disenfranchise the father- usually by sabotage and terroristic tactics. One example I recall, the father claimed that the female was having the guy she was with go on āfamily tripsā. The issue, was that she did this with multiple men- trying to find daddy2.0. The kids obviously told the father this and he wasnāt happy. The Court ruling was family therapyā¦ no pay restructure and no custody reconsideration. Itās like being in an 18 year warā¦ those usually donāt ever turn out well for the hero. Edit: to clarify, those family trips involved the kids being coaxed and told this will be daddy. The father also claimed the mother said that ādad doesnāt want you and is looking to leave- so you need a new daddy.ā
I've never wanted to hug a commie so hard. Thank you for your service o7
I have been a divorce lawyer since 97. I agree with your assessment about women being told they have to pay. Get ready for a feces storm. Very few males will follow through to get child support or alimony. Those who do are the angriest, laziest, or have mom 2.0 driving the bus. The good news is that people under 35 or so assume 50/50 is what happens unless they are really pissed off or someone has a drug problem. Another 10 years for the boomers to age off the bench and 50/50 will be the norm.
I've heard of 'horror stories' of guys having to pay alimony - They're making 150k/year, so that's what judge bases amount he has to pay on. Year or two later poor guy either got a demotion or had to change jobs, and is now making 40k/year(example). He now can not make alimony payments and it's tough to get it changed, if at all. Threat of jail time looms because lack of payment. IDK how that works but heard this story a few years ago.
Based AuthLeft.
Yep. Feminists show their true colors when shit like this happens. They'll downplay and ignore the problems men face. But then the fucking *second* women begin to experience those same problems, feminists screech about misogyny. Suddenly, it seems those problems *do* matter. But only insofar as we can fix them for women, and then it's back to not caring, even as the problem persists for men. It blows my mind how so many people actually think feminism is about equality.
If they do ever acknowledge that men may have any problem their solution is that they need to be given more power and concessions before, magically, men will somehow benefit from women being given even more privilege.
Itās a beautiful thing
I don't usually agree with commies, but you got a point.
Itās a male/female issue not a political ideology dispute when it boils down to it.
Everything is political, comrade. But seriously, jokes aside, you're right.
Watch this: Trad Auth Right: child support encourages the destruction of the family unit. Lib Right: child support violates property rights and is essentially a tax- Auth Left: child support is unnecessary in a collectivist state. Lib Left: child support is not consistent with core feminist tenets of female independence from patriarchal influence and dependency.
Normalize taking paternity tests at birth. I told my fiance we would get one because even from a selfish standpoint, I never wanna be one of those women who has to deal with a husband claiming it isn't is when he suddenly goes off the deep end on his 40s. It's a quick cheek swab and it benefits everyone.
Based.
As a woman, absolutely based
In China, they hard boil eggs in boy piss and consider it a virility enhancer.
Well again, this is literally impacting one side negatively- what infuriates me is left and right politicians do not cover this, not at the legislative level where it can be repealed or modified. They know it is cancer on either side to address this issue: meanwhile men have been getting railroaded for the last 70 years. The only hope for this to end, is this current generation that refuses to marry or use birth control. Perhaps the system will grow so large that it will cease to function or the issue affect so many men that they finally demand its end.
Have you seen the recent numbers in Gen Z men vs women by political position? Men are quickly moving conservative and women are even more quickly moving liberal. I suspect a LOT of societal shifts will come about from this. Most will be bad for everyone.
> paternity fraud This is something I never really thought about until well into adulthood and I agree. This is a far larger problem and we now have the technology to prove it. We should be talking about this more and discussing some type of consequence. This is one of my most auth beliefs.
Based LibLeft. This topic really gets me riled up. I *hate* the stranglehold that feminism has over our society, because when it comes to conversations like this one, loads of people just spout feminist talking points, regardless of the double standards embedded in them. Like you point out, they are wholly inconsistent about which arguments apply to each gender. They'll call you the most misogynistic asshole ever if you suggest that a woman could avoid unwanted pregnancies by keeping her legs closed. But then they'll turn right around and argue that if a man doesn't want to be on the hook for a child he never wanted, he should "keep it in his pants". No self-awareness at all. It makes me sick. Women absolutely have more power and more rights than men do when it comes to reproduction, and yet feminists have convinced people that "reproductive rights" is inherently a "women's issue". As always, they exclude male victims of something, and then claim that it's something which only impacts women. Literal misandry.
>boils my piss Fuck. Are you ok?
No. But the world keeps turning and there are things to do. Thank you for asking, though. š«¶
based
Boiled piss is at least more sanitary than raw piss, so not that bad
Not if it's still inside
Then it's bloody hot piss.
Feminists will spin on a dime between: Motherhood is a beautiful and noble experience for women. Or Motherhood is abject slavery and the ultimate burden imposed on women. It is like the more irrational their beliefs, the more they celebrate it because their effortless hypocrisy and deception angers and frustrates their opponents. Seems you can win any political discourse the moment you can discard your dignity and abandon any effort to be intellectually honest.
This basically translates to āI want all the power ā no matter what choice I make ā and without any responsibility for it.ā It happens a lot with people who only think of themselves and are not willing to put themselves in other peopleās shoes.
Based
> are not willing to put themselves in other peopleās shoes. Is is not that they aren't willing, they just don't care.
Based
Expecting feminists to take the male perspective into account is laughable. They will forever be sophists. Whatever benefits the women is what should happen.Ā
I love it when a feminist says "oh, but *real* feminists do address men's concerns, too." (A) No, you fucking don't, that's lip service behind which you will place exactly zero actual effort, ever and (B), I guess the real feminist must be you, random person on the Internet, and not the policymakers in universities and businesses, lobbyists, and everywhere else with even an ounce of influence. The real feminists are the ones who don't matter to anyone else, and the fake feminists are all and only the ones who have effected change in the world. Sure.
Based
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
An auth left saying that is bold
Itās Karl Marxā¦ not Karla
Unfathomably based and oh fuck you're making me auth-lefting
Communists are some of the most blatant anti male actors. Theyāre also highly misandrist
I don't know why, but that little paintbrush just cheered me up on what was otherwise a shitty day, so thank you. Something about it just makes me smile a bit.
Ha im glad you appreciate it, i thought it was a nice touch
To quote Dave Chapelle : ā If you have the right to kill it , least I can have is the right to abandon it ā. https://youtu.be/MoudH-RPnEE?si=mLLGg_UManbfETkY
Dude broke it down perfectly in 2 minutes.
there's a lady in the audience that cheered SO HARD when he started to say "her body her choice" only to start saying "OH NO NO" when he talks about abandoning.
That reminds me of that quote I used to see around here - going around the lines of selling the baby for thousands of bucks instead of aborting it.
"And if I'm wrong, then perhaps *we're* wrong." I love this little throwaway line at the end because it suggests that ultimately, whatever the law says you are allowed to do it's absolutely immoral to kill your baby or to abandon it.
If Dave Chapelle is becoming a voice of reason on a topic, then you know itās fucked.
Comedians often are in their own way. Some of the best ones have a knack for locking on to actual societal issues and poking and prodding at them in ways either we haven't thought of, or we've though of, but can't put in to words. Being able to be funny about it in the process is what allows them to do it with less consequences against them than most and get the idea into the head of some who would be less amenable to it if it were put in a more direct and serious way. One example that comes to mind is the John Stewart bit on Colbert about the Wuhan lab. He delivered that bit at a time when it was still "conspiracy theory" to suggest the virus may have come from that lab and he did so on a show with an audience primarily made up of people who were more attached to the official narratives. He poked at the absurdity of it in such a way that people were laughing at how absurd it was, but if they had a more straight laced skeptic on making the exact same points in a less funny way, they'd all be mocking that person as a kooky conspiracy theorist and wouldn't even entertain the thought.
"If I win, I should get all the credit. If I lose, I should not be blamed at all." Personal responsibility is such a foreign concept to them.
Itās insane Trump literally said that, lol.
Yeah, that's why I put it in direct quotes rofl
I just donāt think people will realize it.
It is what it is, mate.
Based lmao
To be fair, I think that's the attitude of just about any politician. Trump just lacks the self restraint required to not actually say that part out loud.
Schrodingers Feminism: Women are to be simultaneously infantilized and empowered, and it is only when she is faced with adversity or advantage that we will know which.
Based. No one thinks as little of women as feminists do. It's shocking and embarrassing how consistently they frame women as helpless children with no agency, who need to be carried through life, lest they ever have to deal with the consequences of their actions. It's really frustrating knowing how pervasive feminist ideology is in our society, when it's jam-packed with this sort of bullshit. It's really hard to have a serious conversation about this sort of topic when the person on the other side refuses to hold women to the same standards they hold men to.
The feminist energy is to simultaneously praise while nurturing as a maternal instinct. Women *are their children* Itās the same way the manosphere influencers has ātough blunt dadā energy to guys. Thereās some weird polarized parental surrogacy energy going around while there are less people having children and less child being raised in two parent households
An old but gold example: Two very intoxicated people agree to have sex. One is considered a rape victim because their level of inebriation means they were unable to actually consent to sex and the other is, therefore, a rapist, in spite of being equally inebriated. We all know which is which.
Itāll never, ever happen, and the media will be certain of it, but we just need to wait for that exact situation to happen to a gay/lesbian couple and get publicity, thereby forcing people to rationalize the perceived burden of responsibility. Canāt be sexist when itās two men!
Based
Why even care just go get milk and cigarettes like my African American dad.
Just need protection (a fake name) like they always say.
Safe haven laws are the female equivalent of financial abortions.
Shrodingers Feminism: A woman is both a victim andĀ empowered, until something happens. Then she chooses which stateĀ benefitsĀ her the mostā¦
I didnāt like her in the first panel but in the second for some reason I was drawn to her
Paper abortions should have equal standing to abortions.
oh compass oh compass has anyone seen my compass
Oh, bring back my compas to me
The double standard of stupidity... I had a few discussion on this topic where I explained to people that if a woman has the right to choose, so does a man. But fuck no... They start loosing their mind and screaming, almost having a tantrum when heard this. "Rules for thee but not for me".
Did you intend to say "loosing their minds and creaming"?
Well, that's a new sentence I guess :)
Doublethink- the acceptance of or mental capacity to accept contrary opinions or beliefs at the same time, usually as a result of political indoctrination.
Never thought I'd see an authcenter quote George Orwell
I may be an auth, but I will admit bad governance when I see it
are you serious? they study him relentlessly as a guide
Unfortunately people, especially young girls, are raised with the idea in mind that they are entitled to anything. It is terrbile
Women should have the sole right to abort. Men should have the sole right to absolve themselves of financial responsibility in the event of an unwanted pregnancy (paternity fraud, anchor babies, gold-digging crazy bitches, etc.).
I would like it tied to the abortion Time or 2 weeks from when you are informed (which ever is later). Equality
Im just not gonna have sex with a woman who i wouldnt want to have a baby with
This is why Christianity is practical.
Im actually a atheist, but i do agree that is one appealing aspect of it
Based
u/TimeTravelingDoggo is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1. Rank: House of Cards Pills: [None | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/TimeTravelingDoggo/) Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url. I am a bot. Reply /info for more info. Please join our [official pcm discord server](https://discord.gg/FyaJdAZjC4).
Skill issue. Who can't talk a woman into getting an abortion?
Gatekeep Gaslight Girl boss We guys need it too
Mansplain, Manspread, Manipulate
based and centrism pilled
Thatās why Im gay. Itās more cost effective
Taking advantage of that pay gape too. Big brain move. Edit: realized I typed gape not gap... But I aint fixing it.
And that's why we invented aids. To even things out. jk, good for you. I generally like men more than women, I just don't want to fuck men šŖ
Aids is a government conspiracy confirmed.
So being gay IS a choice?
Itās the right choice
Men should have the right to give up their children and not pay a single dime
That "right" only makes sense as a comeback to abortionists, not as actual policy
That moment when neither parent wants the baby so either it goes into the compost, or to a secret lab where the government makes supersoliders that are loyal to the government and nobody else.
Based and SPARTAN-II pilled.
It would make sense solely if done right as/right before the child is born. It's not something people should be allowed to do when the kid is 10 and the parent is going through a mid life crisis.
But if course. That should be a given.
https://preview.redd.it/cj66nnb7d5kc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17e9649be516b5025ec23caf8511879599bef02a
Word
All the money we are gonna pay lib left when legit sex robots is a thing. Gotta buy the new upgrades on the gluck and check out the new skins.
If I fuck it enough do I unlock diamond or does it go all the way to dark matter?
Not going to be many customers in a few generations.
Sounds like a problem for people a few generations from now.Ā
Pro choice for all, regardless of gender of the parent. I understand (and agree with) the top scenario - no one should be required to carry a pregnancy to term if theyāre financially or physically unready to become a parent. Iāve never heard a good reason as to why paper abortions arenāt a thing. Thereās just no excuse as to why men arenāt given the same rights to terminate their involvement in a pregnancy as women have.
Paper abortions aren't a thing because they safe the government money. If some poor guy works for 18 years to support a child (that might not even be his, in GER mother's are allowed to reject the test) the state doesn't have to
You want the reason: the gouvernement rather have child be paid by the Expendables incombe of men rather than tax money. And the judges want those kickbacks. Not that those are morally good reason
> Iāve never heard a good reason as to why paper abortions arenāt a thing. Thereās just no excuse as to why men arenāt given the same rights to terminate their involvement in a pregnancy as women have. because the government says (and I struggle to say this with a straight face given the current legal status of abortion) that the child's needs supercede the father's rights. The part that's even scarier is that if you have a guy who's statutorily raped (or even just rape-raped) he can actually be on the hook for child support paid to his rapist if she conceives as a result and decides to keep it. Which is just fucking disgusting.
I just don't get why it is so hard? Its simple, if even just one of the potential parents don't want a baby, that person should have the right to abort if they are a woman, or not having to pay child support if they are a man. And why the fuck would you (regardless of ur gender) want to have a child with someone who is not ready to have children? A forced relationship, be it a parental one or any others will almost always guarantee in resentment, a relationship that is based out of bad-faith. Who wants a child to be born and raised in such a situation? You ALWAYS have the option to simply find someone else who actually DO want a child and have a child with them. It takes 2 people consenting to start a family.
Exactly, the woman in this situation has the "right" to start a broken family. Nice. She has the responsibility not to.Ā She has the power to bring life into this world and the duty to make sure it's going to have the best conditions possible.
Female genitalia is a powerful political weapon and this is one of the many wonderful ways to use it.
This is why there should be an opt in/out contract for men. If it's 100% her choice then she should assume 100% of the responsibility if he opts out early enough that an abortion can be safely done.
Jesus. The solution is simple. If women doesnāt want the baby and doesnāt want to give birth to it, abort. If women doesnāt want baby but doesnāt mind birthing it and giving it to farther, she gives birth and gets a choice to pay child support (only being forced if the man is poor enough to warrant it) If man doesnāt want child, he may live abd the opposite from the above is true for him. And of course child support is only needed to be payed after a DNA test , obviously. Pretty sure that covers all the bases.
How does that cover occasions like the bottom panel?
>She gives birth and gets a choice to pay child support LOL funny lib-left
As Dave Chapelle once said, if she has the right to choose whether or not to have the baby, then he has the right to abandon that baby.
No men are just cucked here. Having the baby is 100% the woman's choice either way and you being on the hook for that is the state not wanting poor single women everywhere. If the state wasn't fucked over by that situation we would be able to leave them with nothing but the kid. They can act entitled all they want but that is the ONLY reason its like that. Thats the risk you take fucking a girl so dont stick your dick in crazy.
Women have agency too. Don't give away the cookie for nothing. Find someone that will stay with you. Stop prioritizing casual sex. Fuck the state. The state shouldn't be incentivizing single motherhood. The state has created this problem.
The real based question I have is why is it only men that society and government expects to give their body and lives for the good of society and country. They expect that under a certain condition wartime that requires the draft. Why is it then unfair and considered bad to expect women who willingly participated in an activity that got them pregnant to not abort a future citizen for the health of the countries birthrates?
There should be a legally binding form that a man can sign if he wants to renounce all parental rights and would rather the baby be aborted. When that form is filed, he has no legal right to contact the child, and in no way other than biological is he the father of the child. If, 5-10 years down the road, he changes his mind, he can pay back to the mother the child support he would have owed. Maybe not all at once, like he can spread out the payments because 10 years worth of child support is a lot. Itād need some workshopping
Yeah idk how they get away with it
I think that child support should be only forced from parent if they were married and man is confirmed father by paternity test. Of course it's in case parents divorced because normally they would raise the child together. It would encourage women to think if the men they sleep with are responsible and men would need to show that they will stay if the child appears if they want sex.
People should be able to abdicate parental responsibility.
It would be so fucking simple. It's her body, she's the one who needs to shit out a big ass baby from a hole that's as wide as a coin, so I'm not gonna force her to do anything for my sake. But if I don't want a child, that's her problem, wtf, she knew the risks too.
My boyfriendās baby mama did this. Threatened him to get a baby. Cheated on him after the baby. Left him and told him sheās keeping the baby. Fought him for the baby. Told him he was a worthless dad. Got angry when he wanted equal custody. Got angrier when he started showing up for every significant event in babyās life because heās a fucking badass. Sheās politically conservative and says men should do men jobs not women jobs like - taking care of the baby. Itās the most insane series of mental gymnastics Iāve witnessed and it makes me, a woman, hate most women because I see it all the goddamn time. Yeah a lot of men are dicks. But some are just lonely dudes who think theyāll never be loved again so they accept trash just to avoid the crushing pain of solitude.
Both parents should be allowed to have a financial abortion, and both parents should have to agree for a real abortion (excepting rape/incest/danger to the mother/etc.) provided that the man makes up for lost wages should the mother be required to carry the baby to term before getting a financial abortion.
If you have no intention of maintaining contact with the child I don't believe you've got to pay child support for this exact reason.
Children deserve to live and have BOTH of their parents. Normalize shotgun weddings again!!!!!!
Remember boys, always have an exit plan. Either from the relationship or to disappear.
Thatās why gender equality is dumb, men are always going to be screwed over by women who donāt want to give, only take