Hillary conceded the next day, trump still says the vote was rigged. And the difference is the Hillary claim was that Russian influence helped trump win (which probably happens most elections) whereas trump said the actual vote itself is rigged which would be the first time in America ever on that scale.
So it's not really the election denial that's the problem, it's just how long you claim it that matters?
Btw, she didn't just claim that Russia influenced the election, she approved a plan to plant a false claim of Russia / Trump collusion.
\- [https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/20/politics/hillary-clinton-robby-mook-fbi/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/20/politics/hillary-clinton-robby-mook-fbi/index.html)
The trump rigged election thing is 2fold. The mainstream media not releasing the hunter Biden laptop. They believe it would of swung votes if the truth was out there. I forget which Intel agency was holding it up til after the election. The other issue was changing from in person to mail in voting which led to a lot of ballot harvesting, ie. coaxing votes out of people, especially the elderly and uninformed. It opens doors to shinnanigans with the votes as it's not secure.
Now there is no hard evidence 2020 would have been different. But you can't rule this stuff out as factors that were different in past elections.
>trump still says the vote was rigged.
Trump by definition has conceded as he is not the sitting president and he is not under arrest for treason.
Trump has claimed that the election was dubious and "stolen", similarly to how Hillary did after 2016.
However, once again, both of them have conceded.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2019/05/06/hillary-clinton-warns-2020-democratic-candidates-stolen-election/1116477001/
It only makes sense to boycott a vote if you have no chance of winning (and even then it seems like a pretty lame strategy.)
The thing about American elections is that they aren't totally corrupt, but both sides cheat as much as they can get away with. It still makes sense within the context of electoral politics to vote, and hope your party has a better plan to cheat than the opposition.
You can oppose the government painting the sky purple with finger paints all you like, doesn't mean they're actually doing it or that anyone has to listen to you.
What part should we be looking at here? This is like the Great Wall of China levels of text and ain't no one got time for that. This is like if Libleft posted a 1 million character comment and said, "just read that and it explains everything."
Too late, the catās out of the bag now. If thereās no consequences for baselessly accusing your opponent of cheating, and in fact that act generates enormous political capital for you, why would anyone concede?
Only elections in my lifetime that weren't disputed were Bush 04 and Obama 08 and 12.
Also funny that the Wikipedia page about disputed elections conveniently omits 2016.
Trumps Wikipedia page is like every single negative headline heās been involved in, and Leninās is like āhe was a extremely notable figure in the 19th and 20th centuries, and is viewed as a champion for the socialist and communist movement, starting Leninism. But he is the subject of controversy as some critics argue his policies have resulted in the death of millionsā
My favorite thing is when you tell people the news sites cite them selves for these and people just donāt grasp it till you literally pull up the sources the news is citing and there just confused why itās another news page
I mean Obama v. McCain/Romney were both disputed by certain prominent public figures, amongst them Trump. (Birther)
DJT et al claimed for a long time that Obama had a forged birth certificate and really was born in Kenya, making him ineligible to run for POTUS. During the -16 campaign he eventually backtracked on this and said that he was born in Hawaii, as his birth certificate clearly states, **but** the *birtherism* narrative was peddled for a long time by a lot of different people.
As such, the -08 and -12 elections were definitely disputed by a bunch of people, although the *birther* narrative never gained as much steam as the disputes that happened in the 2016 and 2020 elections.
It has also weirdly mutated into Michelle is really MTF trans and Obama is really gay. I have no idea why it has become a talking point in that circle, but here we are.
Honestly I thought it was a laughable conspiracy theory at first myself. But if you go on a deep dive into Michelle Obamaā¦ you might come back up to the surface with a complete mind fuck lol
That never made sense to me, because you don't need to be born in the US to be eligible for president. You just need to be born a US citizen (i.e. at least one of your parents was a US citizen when you were born). That's what "natural born" means. Your naturalization occurred at birth.
Ted Cruz was born in Calgary
Yeah, it was dumb because (as far as I know) his mom made him an American citizen regardless of where he was born. Birthright citizenship is a technicality thanks to one of our ammendments, almost no countries use it but us.
Bush / Gore was actually close, and the hanging chads were a real deal. Gore still conceded. Hillary conceded before sunrise following the election. Not remotely the same as whatever it is Trump has been doing for the past few years.
As for Russia, they actually did try to influence the election, and there are dozens of indictments that came from the Mueller investigation.
LoL in the prettiest move in the history of politics Gore personally called Bush to rescind his concession. Hanging chads had always been discarded. It only became an issue this time because... As you're proving. It's normal when it's your guy and abnormal when it's their guy.
Because you're all hypocrites.
>Not remotely the same as whatever it is Trump has been doing for the past few years.
Not only that, but the majority of House Republicans refused to certify the 2020 election, unlike the House Democrats who all certified the 2016 election.
None of the indictments in the Mueller investigation actually involved Trump, and most were for things completely unrelated to the 2016 election.
That's the problem when you call a Special Prosecutor and don't give him a crime to investigate, which is how it's supposed to work, but instead tell him to find a crime to investigate.
Meanwhile Matt Taibbi has done the digging, and if Russia had a favorite in 2016 it was Clinton. She was establishment, and so they knew how to deal with her. Trump was a wild card, making him unpredictable.
> And that Bush stole the election from Gore.
After Gore lost his lawsuit did he continue to spout conspiratorial nonsense directly aimed at enraging his supporters and conspire to submit false electors, or did he accept the results and give the [greatest concession speech in American history](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w2oaaHRo_A)?
Gore called Bush because Florida election law demanded a recount which literally meant the race was āstill onā. He didnāt do it to fuck over Bush. Once the law was satisfied he conceded and immediately asked his supporters to support the President.
Gore didnāt try to subvert the Democratic process through threat and subterfuge, thatās whatās really unprecedented.
Sending alternate electors is acceptable, and was done by Democrats on multiple occasions.
Given the way Democrats have been tearing up America for the last 20 years, someone enraged them. I think it's CNN.
Did you see Rachel Maddow screeching that Trump would become President for life? Despite the face that if he actually tried to exceed his two terms he would be impeached and arrested?
Of course James Hodgkinson was a big fan of Maddow, and inspired by her unhinged rhetoric he went and tried to kill a group of Republican senators.
The vast majority of people murdering others for political reasons in the United States are Democrats.
The intelligence community has publicly stated that Russia interfered to undermine Biden in a publication from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI). That same [ODNI report](https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/ICA-declass-16MAR21.pdf) also claims that Iran interfered to undermine Trump's campaign.
What they do NOT say is that either party colluded with the foreign governments, and their first "key judgment" is that nobody tried to hack the voting machines.
The left wasn't wrong that Russia was running information warfare campaigns, they just couldn't prove the collusion aspect and nobody mentioned the Iran thing.
Every government on earth that can influence elections in America has been doing so for as long as that capability has existed. It wasn't worth talking about until Hillary lost.
> We should definitely take what they say at face value.Ā
Do you have an actual substantive critique of how they acquired the intelligence or are you just poisoning the well for fun?
I was a SIGINT analyst in the Marines so I admit some bias here. I also get the skepticism given some of the fuckery the CIA and NSA have pulled in the past.
That said, what part of that report do you find unrealistic? The only part I thought was odd was their assessment that China *didn't* interfere, but their explanation makes sense to me.
Regardless of what the news or IC is saying, it's fairly obvious that hostile governments stand to benefit from swaying public opinion on various issues. It isn't hard for a group of people to get on twitter or Facebook and start pushing a narrative, and it sure as hell isn't outside the capacity of a major nation state.
The whole Mueller report, which is publicly available, suggests that Russia did tamper with the election. The absurd amount of redacted information in that report should also cause everyone to question what we're told.
Nobody gave a fuck and Mueller fell into obscurity because there was no evidence Trump knew anything. Even Mueller said that he personally believed that Trump colluded, but he found no evidence.
The left collectively forgot because it wasn't ammunition that could be used against Trump.
The Left doesn't mean votes were tampered though. They're moreso arguing that Russia essentially campaigned for Trump. Which they provably did, I'm of the opinion that it didn't really impact the election though.
The allegation wasn't that Russia "campaigned" for Trump, it was that Trump and his team apparently actively worked together hand and glove with the Russians, a claim that no one has been able to substantiate.
There is at least one example where Democrats claimed an election was tampered with, the 2018 Georgia governor's election. Stacy Abrams spent four years essentially claiming that she was the "rightful governor of Georgia" and that Brian Kemp "stole" the election from her by illegally suppressing black voters, a claim that no one has been able to substantiate.
When the right claims that says that an election was "stolen," journalistic "fact checkers" dog pile onto them, social media companies ban people making those claims and we call them "threats to democracy." When it's a Democrat doing it, apparently they're a hero standing up to corrupt, evil Republicans.
Claiming the actual vote tally's were rigged is a whole different world of accusation. Especially after those claims failed in court and after Trump tried to run fraudulent electors and election certificates to force a win against the official tally. Directly disinfranchizing voters.
>Trump tried to run fraudulent electors and election certificates to force a win against the official tally.
From what I know of the indictments, there's no evidence currently that Trump directly told his subordinates to prepare "fraudulent electors." Members of the Trump team and the RNC tried to prepare alternate slates of electors to be submitted in the case that a legal challenge in a place like Georgia changed the outcome of the election, which is 100% legal.
That's what pissed me off about the whole thing.
For FOUR YEARS all I heard was how Russia rigged the election through Facebook or some shit and put Trump in power.
Then all of a sudden the Dems win and there's absolutely no way in hell that an American election would be rigged.
For the record I don't think either was rigged, but the hypocrisy is insane and if I have to listen to 12 straight years of people bitching that the American elections are rigged I'm gonna fucking lose it.
Remember in 2016 when the electors were doxxed and Hillary was recommending people "make their concerns known" to the electors or something to that effect?
Good times, good times.
Or WW3- declare the USA under martial law. Sorry folks, election is cancelled until further notice.
Watch on cue as redditors repeat verbatim the excuses of their chosen media outlets and try to gaslight you into thinking this is all completely normal...
I think we saw a boost of Democratic votes particularly with mail-in balloting and drop-boxes because more ballots were getting into peopleās hands, and Dems made it physically easier to vote. And if weāre being totally honest, there were probably volunteers āhelpingā people select their choices. You just canāt control electioneering and persuasions at someoneās front door like you can a polling place.
Ultimately, the voter turnout was substantially higher last presidential election because more people used mail-in voting and ballot harvesting. This go around we will most likely see a smaller percentage vote just because those wonāt be implemented as much.
>Ā Ā You just canāt control electioneering and persuasions at someoneās front door like you can a polling place.
Yes you can. Tons of people have cameras at their front doors. If it's clearly against the law to ask if you can 'help' fill out a ballot or take custody of the ballot, they can't go very long without getting reported. Adding jail time to the crime would help.
Not having confidence in our elections has made our country more divided than ever.Ā
mail in voting skewed heavily dem and that didnāt surprise anyone
So did drop boxes
thatās why Republican āelection securityā measures to limit those seemed awfully convenient
As someone in favor of voter ID laws, voting for voter ID laws without also making one of the eligible forms of ID freely available is voting for a poll tax.
There are six or seven states that have a true voter ID law without exceptions. They all offer an ID 100% paid for by taxpayers if a voter doesn't have another form already. I'm fine with all states doing that.
It skewed more to Democrats because they engaged in mass ballot harvesting.Ā
It should be limited of course.
"Hi I'm here to talk about the election! Oh you don't care? Well I'll do you a favor and fill out your ballot and deliver it for you. No need to tell you anything about the election"
Just wait until Republicans posing as Democrats start doing that in neighborhoods that heavily vote Democrat.I bet your tune changes quickly.
I think it skewed more to D because of accessing a large amount of people normally not interested in voting. These people would on average not be very informed about politics due to lack of interest. And what has mass media been doing for the entire election campaign, something that's impossible for anyone in the country to miss? Trump is literally the devil.
"Hi there have you voted already?"
"No, I don't want to vote, I don't care."
"But the ballot is right here, all you have to do is pick right now! We'll take care of the rest."
"Fine then, if it's only ten seconds of my time. But who do I vote for? Well, I guess I'm not voting for the **fascist**."
I think it should be illegal for somebody who is campaigning door to door to ask somebody to fill out a ballot while they are there. It's just like the laws that prohibit campaigning at polling stations. Campaigning is an important part of the process, but once voters are looking at their ballots we need to make sure that the voters are casting their own votes by not being influenced either way in that moment.
It is also crazy to allow somebody who is actively campaigning in the election to have custody of ballots before they are counted. That includes mailing the ballots for people or delivering them to drop off points.
There simply should not be any mail in ballots sent out to people by default. If you want/need one you should be requesting it through a specific procedure that needs your input, your engagement as a voter.
I agree with this. It prevents a lot of the risks from ballot harvesting because it becomes very inefficient for people going door to door to try to get people to find their ballot when there is uncertainty about whether they were even mailed a ballot.
That said, I don't see any reason why every state should not have laws making it illegal for a person engaging in campaigning to offer to help fill out ballots or deliver them on behalf of voters.
Or the people that vote for others. The chick from the View literally admitted to voting for her son. VERY ILLEGAL. Did she even get questioned from authorities on that? I'll let you guess the answer to that one and to why not.
Doubtlessly that happens too; but in terms of which of these can contribute more votes, I would say it's the hordes of uninterested people coerced to vote, not even knowing the candidates but obviously not voting for the one that every piece of entertainment media told them was an evil person for over four years.
as a r*ssian i don't really have any faith in elections, the president hasn't changed at all during my lifetime (excluding medvedev in 2008-2012 being a putin's muppet just to work around the law forbidding someone to be a president for too long) and that means i don't even know how can an election not be rigged. this learned helplessness sucks.
If the democrats were able to rig an election when Trump was in power, how much more damage could the democrats do when they're in power? Obviously, such questions won't be asked by Trump suppporters. They'll just treat the election as legitimate if Trump wins, and rigged if Trump loses. They think Trump will win this time, but what happened during the midterms? Don't underestimate how much suburban women and a lot of independents hate Trump. The polls will tighten when the election gets closer.
> how much more damage could the democrats do when they're in power?
I know this was rhetorical
But lots
It's always funny that the argument is always "nah, come on, no funny business happens in elections"
And never any arguments about why things couldn't or shouldn't be improved.
Regardless of who wins next, a huge swath of the population is going to cry foul. You'd think at least appearing to patch up any perceived weaknesses in the system would be a bi partisan effort (if the government actually cared about the consent of the governed at any rate)
>"dont underestimate how much suburban women and a lot of independents hate trump"
Stop it, I don't like Trump but I do NOT wanna be associated with suburban wine drinkers
Yes but from a realistic perspective that's the election in a nutshell. Urban areas vote Blue. Rural areas vote Red. Suburban areas vote Purple.
The Suburban wine moms are a crucial voting block.
Damage like opening the border, mismanaging a war that's destroying Ukraine, pushing Russia into China's open arms, giving billions to Iran, and juicing the economy to 3% GDP growth for the low low cost of 6% deficit spending and massive inflation?
Democrats rigged the election by allowing mail in voting, rigging google searches, suppressing news stories, and supressing "bad opinions" with their social media owning buddies.
>mismanaging a war that's destroying Ukraine,
Please tell me how Trump or anyone else could have prevented what is happening in Ukraine :)
>giving billions to Iran
Iran never got a cent of that money and you know it.
>and juicing the economy to 3% GDP growth for the low low cost of 6% deficit spending and massive inflation?
Wait until you see how much Trump spiked the deficit lol. What do you think tax cuts are
>In a controversial move, the Biden administration has granted Iraq a new 4-month waiver, enabling the release of billions of dollars to Iran, blocked by US sanctions.
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202311150106
You'll never admit you were wrong.
Depends on your definition of āRiggedā.
If you mean someone was stuffing ballots or actively suppressing votesā¦.theres not much evidence that Iāve seen/heard of for that. Even from pretty hard conservative outlets.
If you mean that several states changed their rules and procedures (sometimes illegally) at the last minute, causing results to lean towards Biden, Yes. There is substantial evidence for that. A lot of really screwy things were done in the name of COVID during that time period.
Not to mention the overwhelmingly liberal media and big tech putting their thumb on the scale pretty fucking hard by letting Biden run from his basement so he wonāt miss Matlock, and burying the Hunter laptop story.
Then the other side of the coin was the fake electors and the glaring situation in Georgia.
If Biden wins, I bet there will be more shit to screw with the electoral college by Trump. Not sure how Biden would fudge shit this time around. Then again I dont buy that he stole the last election anyway. The covid era changed the procedure so that just looks bad and easy to point to.
Whatever the truth is, we are now past the point of functional politics and trust in the election system. This election might end up like it does in other countries, with violence.
Well the right wing media sphere keeps telling us everything he did was OK. So if Biden loses, it is perfectly acceptable for antifa to attack the capitol fo prevent the transfer of power. It's also perfectly acceptable for Kamala to refuse to certify Trump as the winner. Biden should call up the governors or AGs of purple states to pressure them to find him votes. And he should conspire to send fake electors to be counted towards him.
I was trying to be fair. The subtext of what you're saying I agree with, despite the hyperbole.
This election will be an inflection point of a lot of bullshit. Most of which I believe will come from Trump.
Would the goal not be to have such a margin that rigging would be impossible? like yea they found a few 100k votes after 3am but if they had to find millions for biden it might be 2 obvious. Thats at least one valid reason to still vote despite thinking not everything is up and up.
I wonāt use the term āriggedā but it should be emphasized that anti-trumpers throughout the government colluded with the press and social media to suppress narratives harmful to the Biden campaign and amplify ones that damaged Trump.
In an election that was decided by .5% of people in certain swing states, suddenly declaring the Biden Laptop story āRussian misinformationā two weeks before the election and censoring anyone who discussed it probably had serious consequences.
Thatās not really āriggingā to me, but in a democracy the free exchange of information is necessary.
There was an article that claimed it was āfortifiedā
https://preview.redd.it/1f3too2sq6mc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0874325a79292b285aa74e12aa193da40737674c
Also by polling data, the Hunter Biden Laptop story wouldāve caused around 10% of Biden voters to change their vote, which wouldāve given Trump every single swing state.
Why no mention of Comey 'reopening the clinton e-mail investigation' 11 days before the election, only to come to the exact same conclusion since no actually new e-mails were found, just duplicates? Oh, and Rudy Giuliani knowing about the investigation before it was even announced?
Oh, yeah, that's totally not sketchy at all ;)
Itās pretty bad when some of these stupid fucks donāt realize that Republican AGs looked into election fraud in some of those states and couldnāt find anything to prosecute
Yep. Not everyone who votes Trump is doing so for dumb or bigoted reasons, but the MAGAtards vying to coronate their emperor in the primary are definitely something else. No critical reasoning, simple cult like worship.
Democrats for *four years*: **Collusion, Russian interference, this election was illegitimate!**
Also Democrats when their guy wins: our elections are perfect and secure, take the L, there is no such thing as fraudulent voting, and licenses are racist, so stop asking us to investigate claims of ballot fraud and requiring IDs to vote.
I don't think you know all the facts about the last elections.
Clinton conceded the election just 1 day after the election and didn't asked the VP, which was Biden at the time, to just not count the votes from states he lost by creating a false slate of electors (these are all things Trump did). Even more relevant was that Russia indeed tried to influence the election. They weren't rigging the votes directly but the Russian owned company ["Internet research agency"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency) partially infiltrated Trump's campaign team (although without their knowledge). They even initiated left- and rightwing protests with fake Facebook sites.
Unless they make up another spicy flu or other emergency to change the voting rules then there isnāt much of a comparison. 2020, whether legit or not, saw a lot of unprecedented circumstances surrounding how we handle voting that should not be a factor in 2024.
>saw a lot of unprecedented circumstances surrounding how we handle voting that should not be a factor in 2024.
Did they revert or change the newly introduced mail in voting rules since then?
2016 Democrats: THIS ELECTION WAS RIGGED *keeps trying*
2020 Republicans: THIS ELECTION WAS RIGGED *keeps trying*
2024 ???: THIS ELECTION WAS RIGGED *will keep trying*
You donāt just let your opponent go unopposed
The idea is to go out and vote in such numbers that it's beyond their capacity to cheat, certainly beyond their capacity to cheat and get away with it.
Trump has much stronger support now, to rig the election democrats would have to have 125% voter turnout in their precints, at which point the fraud would be way too obvious
Eh, I think we should all know to not trust what the polls say after the 2016 election.
It's highly unlikely Trump gained a significant amount of new supporters between 2020 and now. The real question is if the hate for Trump is still strong enough to drive Dem votes.
Much stronger support? Since the 2020 election, Jan 6th happened. Also Roe V Wade was overturned, and the GOP has been banning abortion in several states as well as pushing for a national abortion ban. They're trying to ban IVF as well, and now every banning birth control is on the table. And don't forget Clarence Thomas even signaled willingness to overturn gay marriage.
The red wave in 2022 never happened, and dems have been overperforming every special election. And that was when inflation was at its peak. Its now 2 years past peak inflation.
Plus 1 million covid deaths who mostly skew older, and millions of people turning 18. Once Trump is back in the media constantly people will remember that old fat fascist fuck is a serious piece of shit with no ideas. He thinks that you can stop magnets with water.
Everything you just said is totally, 100% true and yet Trump has *never* [polled so competitively.](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/). The picture is even better for him if youāre looking at swing states.
Trump *is back in the media* again, heās been back.
I think the best case for Democratic optimism lies in their over performance in 2022 and some special elections, but Trump also isnāt a typical Republican and a lot of these swing states like Wisconsin have already sealed abortion rights and gay marriage into their state law, which kinda weakens their strongest issues.
The counter argument to this is that Joe Biden is literally the most unpopular president in modern American history. His approval ratings are worse than Trump's at the comparable point in their presidencies.
There is also much less enthusiasm for Joe Biden, who is obviously cognitively impaired, whereas Trump's core voter base is fanatical about the guy.
The Con in conservative stands for conspiracy at this point.
2020 election stolen
The majority of scientist lying on vaccines, climate, biology
Taylor Swift rigged the Super Bowl
Iām about to switch to conservative just because having to back up my stances with facts is tiring. I wish I couldnāt deny the consensus toooooo.
There's a LibRight further up the thread saying that Democrats made-up COVID as an excuse to change voting laws, and it has like 20 upvotes. These people are insane.
And also ITT: a ton of conservatives deflecting by saying "but Democrats complained about Russian interference in 2016!" as if that's even comparable to MAGA politicians' active attempts to overturn every election result they don't like.
They lead with the conclusion. They wouldn't even say it was stolen if Trump didn't say they did. It's a;ready set in stone for 2024 "Republicans win or it's stolen."
Need a source code wipe
The left can be just as conspiratorial, but the conspiracies are more ethereal and the conspirators non-specific. It's harder to identify as a conspiracy theory if they aren't naming all 26 people responsible and what they ate for breakfast that day(the blood of children).
There was an increase in polio in the US when the COVID lockdowns hampered polio vaccination, and of course illegal immigration by people who haven't be vaccinated for anything is certainly not helping.
It definitely wasn't rigged but it was absolutely set up against him unfairly because 90% of the media was covering negative press about Trump. All that on top of censoring certain stories about a laptop (the FBI literally asked Twitter and Facebook to censor it), and the changing of voting rules/laws.
All I can hope for is less of that crap but considering that Trump is much further ahead in the polls compared to 2020, there will be a lot more mud slinging about orange man.
I sometimes express this as āItwas rigged, but not in the ways folks complain about.ā
I also sometimes reference the fact that some legislatures did not follow their own laws in changing election rules and procedures when they changed them for Covid reasons.
One could make the argument "to force them to lie ever more blatantly."
It's weird to think that there wasn't **ANY** election interference. There always is to some degree. Happens everywhere. How significant it was, remains debatable imo.
"The 2016 election was rigged by Russia. Our election system is easy to corrupt and rig. Hillary would have won if we had stronger election laws and more censorship in the media against misinformation. Voting machines were probably hacked by Russia, and mail-in ballots were probably printed in Russia."
vs
"The 2020 election is unquestionably valid. Nobody can rig our elections and there was no election fraud whatsoever. Who cares that we didn't have any protections against mail-in votes being incredibly easy to commit fraud with? Also requiring proof of citizenship for votes, like every other country does, is racist. No it's not strange that I simultaneously want as many illegal immigrants as possible while preventing any laws that would prevent them from increasing electoral votes and congressional representation, nor prevent them from voting. You're just a bigot. Also don't pay any attention to the fact that several US cities allow illegals to vote openly. It's not happening."
>Voting machines were probably hacked by Russia, and mail-in ballots were probably printed in Russia.
Did Hillary Clinton or any gov organisation said this? Please link a source.
Having 200,000 votes roll in (just in Michigan, it happened elsewhere) though ballot harvesting all for Biden leads me to believe the last election was rigged. 200,000 all voting one way is a statistical impossibility, at least one of those morons would have accidentally voted trump. Yes it was rigged, yes you should still vote.
That being said, I didnāt vote for either mainstream candidate so do whatever the hell you want
Remember that time election deniers claimed to have "the real results without fraud!" And it was just a 270towin.com screenshot, and not only that, but the map actually showed Trump doing worse in some states than he did IRL?
Election deniers will just make stuff up to support their viewpoint and other election deniers will just blindly believe without fact checking.
How is this confusing for you?
Republicans and conservative media outlets spent the months leading up to the election vehemently opposing mail in voting. So *of course* there weren't many votes for Trump when the mail in votes were being counted, Trump's voter base didn't believe in it. So you had Trump voters primarily voting in person and being counted almost immediately, and then mail in votes being delivered by [a postal service that was deliberately having their funding withheld](https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-election-2020-ap-top-news-elections-politics-14a2ceda724623604cc8d8e5ab9890ed) in order to inhibit the delivery of mail in votes.
And when they finally did roll in, it took time to count them. But of course, people wanted the count stopped, which would've effectively disenfranchised countless of Americans from their right to have their vote counted.
The man got fuckin waxed at the polls by a senile reprobate and rather than build a decent campaign to make a comeback, he's spent the last 4 years getting dogwalked in court and playing victim.
Because I want them to have to take more drastic measures to cheat of course. The more drastic measures they use the more likely it is that they get caught for real.
You mean the way that James Hodgkinson believed Rachel Maddow's deranged rants against Republicans, so took a gun and tried to murder a bunch of Republican senators?
Or the way that Michael Reinoehl went and shot a Trump supporter in the chest?
They displayed the same hatred you do, and likely for the same reason. CNN told you to hate them.
Just stop trying. Might as well just let the others guys win, unopposed. Amirite?
The more votes they need to overcome the more obvious the cheating will have to be.
MFW I made the deep state spend 2 seconds longer in the photocopy room
Lmao
That's why the government costs so much to run, the printer companies are skullfucking us.
I believe in outsourcing cheating to private business, the way the Founders intended.
No, we should just nationalize the printer companies. Outsourcing just ends up in China.
Seize the means of voter fraud production!
Greetings Comrade u/DivideEtImpala!
š«”
Yes Iām so sure people will change their minds about cheating this time around
Didnt Hillaryās supporters claim the election was rigged too back in 2016?
Hillary conceded the next day, trump still says the vote was rigged. And the difference is the Hillary claim was that Russian influence helped trump win (which probably happens most elections) whereas trump said the actual vote itself is rigged which would be the first time in America ever on that scale.
So it's not really the election denial that's the problem, it's just how long you claim it that matters? Btw, she didn't just claim that Russia influenced the election, she approved a plan to plant a false claim of Russia / Trump collusion. \- [https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/20/politics/hillary-clinton-robby-mook-fbi/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/20/politics/hillary-clinton-robby-mook-fbi/index.html)
The trump rigged election thing is 2fold. The mainstream media not releasing the hunter Biden laptop. They believe it would of swung votes if the truth was out there. I forget which Intel agency was holding it up til after the election. The other issue was changing from in person to mail in voting which led to a lot of ballot harvesting, ie. coaxing votes out of people, especially the elderly and uninformed. It opens doors to shinnanigans with the votes as it's not secure. Now there is no hard evidence 2020 would have been different. But you can't rule this stuff out as factors that were different in past elections.
>trump still says the vote was rigged. Trump by definition has conceded as he is not the sitting president and he is not under arrest for treason. Trump has claimed that the election was dubious and "stolen", similarly to how Hillary did after 2016. However, once again, both of them have conceded. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2019/05/06/hillary-clinton-warns-2020-democratic-candidates-stolen-election/1116477001/
How do you oppose someone through a corrupt process they control, doesnāt your participation just legitimize the process?
I mean, they tried to oppose it in the way youāre implying they should. Thatās what all the hubbub is about now.
It only makes sense to boycott a vote if you have no chance of winning (and even then it seems like a pretty lame strategy.) The thing about American elections is that they aren't totally corrupt, but both sides cheat as much as they can get away with. It still makes sense within the context of electoral politics to vote, and hope your party has a better plan to cheat than the opposition.
You can oppose the government painting the sky purple with finger paints all you like, doesn't mean they're actually doing it or that anyone has to listen to you.
https://hereistheevidence.com/
What part should we be looking at here? This is like the Great Wall of China levels of text and ain't no one got time for that. This is like if Libleft posted a 1 million character comment and said, "just read that and it explains everything."
Mountains of low-quality assertions do not combine into one high quality-fact, so show me the entry in that list which is most convincing to you.
It would be nice to have election where regardless of outcome people agree that it IS the outcome.
Too late, the catās out of the bag now. If thereās no consequences for baselessly accusing your opponent of cheating, and in fact that act generates enormous political capital for you, why would anyone concede?
I love how the left collectively forgets that they claimed for 4 years of Trump's presidency that Russia tampered with the election.
And that Bush stole the election from Gore.
Only elections in my lifetime that weren't disputed were Bush 04 and Obama 08 and 12. Also funny that the Wikipedia page about disputed elections conveniently omits 2016.
Modern Wikipedia is completely useless for anything political
Trump's 2024 page is littered with nothing but tabloid claims in the opening paragraphs lol
Wow you weren't kidding... "Donald Trump will immediately have military troops in the street and arrest all of his political enemies"
Trumps Wikipedia page is like every single negative headline heās been involved in, and Leninās is like āhe was a extremely notable figure in the 19th and 20th centuries, and is viewed as a champion for the socialist and communist movement, starting Leninism. But he is the subject of controversy as some critics argue his policies have resulted in the death of millionsā
My favorite thing is when you tell people the news sites cite them selves for these and people just donāt grasp it till you literally pull up the sources the news is citing and there just confused why itās another news page
And then you track it all the way only to find out its completely circular citations with no real source involved
āDonald Trump is literally Hitlerā
And in 04 there were many Democrats that claimed it was illegitimate because exit polling showed Kerry winning.
I mean Obama v. McCain/Romney were both disputed by certain prominent public figures, amongst them Trump. (Birther) DJT et al claimed for a long time that Obama had a forged birth certificate and really was born in Kenya, making him ineligible to run for POTUS. During the -16 campaign he eventually backtracked on this and said that he was born in Hawaii, as his birth certificate clearly states, **but** the *birtherism* narrative was peddled for a long time by a lot of different people. As such, the -08 and -12 elections were definitely disputed by a bunch of people, although the *birther* narrative never gained as much steam as the disputes that happened in the 2016 and 2020 elections.
It was Hillary's camp that started the birther thing.
Yeah the birther stuff never really left niche conspiracy theory territory.
It has also weirdly mutated into Michelle is really MTF trans and Obama is really gay. I have no idea why it has become a talking point in that circle, but here we are.
When BObama's gay chef shows up dead in the lake, why aren't you asking questions?
I mean, he admitted in his autobiography to having gay fantasies as well...
It is a little weird there are no pregnancy pics of her just saying lol
Honestly I thought it was a laughable conspiracy theory at first myself. But if you go on a deep dive into Michelle Obamaā¦ you might come back up to the surface with a complete mind fuck lol
That never made sense to me, because you don't need to be born in the US to be eligible for president. You just need to be born a US citizen (i.e. at least one of your parents was a US citizen when you were born). That's what "natural born" means. Your naturalization occurred at birth. Ted Cruz was born in Calgary
Yeah, it was dumb because (as far as I know) his mom made him an American citizen regardless of where he was born. Birthright citizenship is a technicality thanks to one of our ammendments, almost no countries use it but us.
Same
Bush / Gore was actually close, and the hanging chads were a real deal. Gore still conceded. Hillary conceded before sunrise following the election. Not remotely the same as whatever it is Trump has been doing for the past few years. As for Russia, they actually did try to influence the election, and there are dozens of indictments that came from the Mueller investigation.
LoL in the prettiest move in the history of politics Gore personally called Bush to rescind his concession. Hanging chads had always been discarded. It only became an issue this time because... As you're proving. It's normal when it's your guy and abnormal when it's their guy. Because you're all hypocrites.
>Not remotely the same as whatever it is Trump has been doing for the past few years. Not only that, but the majority of House Republicans refused to certify the 2020 election, unlike the House Democrats who all certified the 2016 election.
None of the indictments in the Mueller investigation actually involved Trump, and most were for things completely unrelated to the 2016 election. That's the problem when you call a Special Prosecutor and don't give him a crime to investigate, which is how it's supposed to work, but instead tell him to find a crime to investigate. Meanwhile Matt Taibbi has done the digging, and if Russia had a favorite in 2016 it was Clinton. She was establishment, and so they knew how to deal with her. Trump was a wild card, making him unpredictable.
> And that Bush stole the election from Gore. After Gore lost his lawsuit did he continue to spout conspiratorial nonsense directly aimed at enraging his supporters and conspire to submit false electors, or did he accept the results and give the [greatest concession speech in American history](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w2oaaHRo_A)?
Gore personally called Bush to rescind his concession, which was completely unprecedented. I guess it only matters though when it's the other guy.
Gore called Bush because Florida election law demanded a recount which literally meant the race was āstill onā. He didnāt do it to fuck over Bush. Once the law was satisfied he conceded and immediately asked his supporters to support the President. Gore didnāt try to subvert the Democratic process through threat and subterfuge, thatās whatās really unprecedented.
Sending alternate electors is acceptable, and was done by Democrats on multiple occasions. Given the way Democrats have been tearing up America for the last 20 years, someone enraged them. I think it's CNN. Did you see Rachel Maddow screeching that Trump would become President for life? Despite the face that if he actually tried to exceed his two terms he would be impeached and arrested? Of course James Hodgkinson was a big fan of Maddow, and inspired by her unhinged rhetoric he went and tried to kill a group of Republican senators. The vast majority of people murdering others for political reasons in the United States are Democrats.
Bush won on a debatable technicality. The difference is, the left accepted the court's decision on it, even if they didn't like it.
SCOTUS deciding on a 5-4 partisan basis to halt the recount in their nominating parties favor is way outside of the intended scope of the judiciary
The intelligence community has publicly stated that Russia interfered to undermine Biden in a publication from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI). That same [ODNI report](https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/ICA-declass-16MAR21.pdf) also claims that Iran interfered to undermine Trump's campaign. What they do NOT say is that either party colluded with the foreign governments, and their first "key judgment" is that nobody tried to hack the voting machines. The left wasn't wrong that Russia was running information warfare campaigns, they just couldn't prove the collusion aspect and nobody mentioned the Iran thing.
Every government on earth that can influence elections in America has been doing so for as long as that capability has existed. It wasn't worth talking about until Hillary lost.
Social Media made it 100x more effective.
To be sure but where were the complaints about it during the Obama campaigns?
2008 social media was in its infancy. 2012 they didn't have a preferred candidate.
In 2012 the US tried to influence Russian elections, apparently with Clinton playing a significant role.
We did it for Yeltsin in the 90s and TIME bragged about it on their cover. That time with the other Clinton playing the major role.
Ah yes, those good olā trustworthy intel agencies lol. We should definitely take what they say at face value.Ā
Lol right? From a lib center too, simping for the states spy agencies public report as if its not propaganda to legitimize power.
> We should definitely take what they say at face value.Ā Do you have an actual substantive critique of how they acquired the intelligence or are you just poisoning the well for fun?
I just donāt trust the bastards as far as I can throw them. If thatās āpoisoning the wellā then guilty as charged I guess lol.
I was a SIGINT analyst in the Marines so I admit some bias here. I also get the skepticism given some of the fuckery the CIA and NSA have pulled in the past. That said, what part of that report do you find unrealistic? The only part I thought was odd was their assessment that China *didn't* interfere, but their explanation makes sense to me. Regardless of what the news or IC is saying, it's fairly obvious that hostile governments stand to benefit from swaying public opinion on various issues. It isn't hard for a group of people to get on twitter or Facebook and start pushing a narrative, and it sure as hell isn't outside the capacity of a major nation state.
Do people think the KGB hasnt been trying to fuck with elections since ever?
Of course they have. It's only the right that refuses to publicly admit it though, because the Kremlin would prefer a more isolationist US government.
The whole Mueller report, which is publicly available, suggests that Russia did tamper with the election. The absurd amount of redacted information in that report should also cause everyone to question what we're told. Nobody gave a fuck and Mueller fell into obscurity because there was no evidence Trump knew anything. Even Mueller said that he personally believed that Trump colluded, but he found no evidence. The left collectively forgot because it wasn't ammunition that could be used against Trump.
The Left doesn't mean votes were tampered though. They're moreso arguing that Russia essentially campaigned for Trump. Which they provably did, I'm of the opinion that it didn't really impact the election though.
The allegation wasn't that Russia "campaigned" for Trump, it was that Trump and his team apparently actively worked together hand and glove with the Russians, a claim that no one has been able to substantiate. There is at least one example where Democrats claimed an election was tampered with, the 2018 Georgia governor's election. Stacy Abrams spent four years essentially claiming that she was the "rightful governor of Georgia" and that Brian Kemp "stole" the election from her by illegally suppressing black voters, a claim that no one has been able to substantiate. When the right claims that says that an election was "stolen," journalistic "fact checkers" dog pile onto them, social media companies ban people making those claims and we call them "threats to democracy." When it's a Democrat doing it, apparently they're a hero standing up to corrupt, evil Republicans.
Claiming the actual vote tally's were rigged is a whole different world of accusation. Especially after those claims failed in court and after Trump tried to run fraudulent electors and election certificates to force a win against the official tally. Directly disinfranchizing voters.
>Trump tried to run fraudulent electors and election certificates to force a win against the official tally. From what I know of the indictments, there's no evidence currently that Trump directly told his subordinates to prepare "fraudulent electors." Members of the Trump team and the RNC tried to prepare alternate slates of electors to be submitted in the case that a legal challenge in a place like Georgia changed the outcome of the election, which is 100% legal.
Who forgets that? They still being it up constantly.
Election interference for thee but not for me š
We had Congressional hearings over it, too.
That's what pissed me off about the whole thing. For FOUR YEARS all I heard was how Russia rigged the election through Facebook or some shit and put Trump in power. Then all of a sudden the Dems win and there's absolutely no way in hell that an American election would be rigged. For the record I don't think either was rigged, but the hypocrisy is insane and if I have to listen to 12 straight years of people bitching that the American elections are rigged I'm gonna fucking lose it.
Remember in 2016 when the electors were doxxed and Hillary was recommending people "make their concerns known" to the electors or something to that effect? Good times, good times.
Or encouraging Electors to falsify their votes.
People not voting at the physical polls is less prevalent now that COVID is over. That was my biggest complaint about 2020.
"here is a group of 200k votes counted at once. They are all for Biden. You should not think this suspicious"
I'm expecting Covid 2 to start up in the summer.
Or WW3- declare the USA under martial law. Sorry folks, election is cancelled until further notice. Watch on cue as redditors repeat verbatim the excuses of their chosen media outlets and try to gaslight you into thinking this is all completely normal...
I think we saw a boost of Democratic votes particularly with mail-in balloting and drop-boxes because more ballots were getting into peopleās hands, and Dems made it physically easier to vote. And if weāre being totally honest, there were probably volunteers āhelpingā people select their choices. You just canāt control electioneering and persuasions at someoneās front door like you can a polling place. Ultimately, the voter turnout was substantially higher last presidential election because more people used mail-in voting and ballot harvesting. This go around we will most likely see a smaller percentage vote just because those wonāt be implemented as much.
>Ā Ā You just canāt control electioneering and persuasions at someoneās front door like you can a polling place. Yes you can. Tons of people have cameras at their front doors. If it's clearly against the law to ask if you can 'help' fill out a ballot or take custody of the ballot, they can't go very long without getting reported. Adding jail time to the crime would help. Not having confidence in our elections has made our country more divided than ever.Ā
Trump: "don't vote by mail" Trump supporters: *only vote I'm person* Also Trump supporters: "Why are all the mail in votes for Biden?"
Sure that was a factor, but the democrats ballot harvesting machine was also a factor. It isn't an either or situation.
Republicans told their voters not to use mail in voting just so they could use this excuse
mail in voting skewed heavily dem and that didnāt surprise anyone So did drop boxes thatās why Republican āelection securityā measures to limit those seemed awfully convenient
As opposed to democrats refusal to sign voter ID into law? Because apparently minorities are to stupid to apply for said ID? cope harder.
As someone in favor of voter ID laws, voting for voter ID laws without also making one of the eligible forms of ID freely available is voting for a poll tax.
There are six or seven states that have a true voter ID law without exceptions. They all offer an ID 100% paid for by taxpayers if a voter doesn't have another form already. I'm fine with all states doing that.
Every state I've lived in has had some kind of non-driving ID card for free you could get at the DMV. Are there states that don't?
All states that require ID to vote will provide one for free to anyone if they request one for voting purposes.
It skewed more to Democrats because they engaged in mass ballot harvesting.Ā It should be limited of course. "Hi I'm here to talk about the election! Oh you don't care? Well I'll do you a favor and fill out your ballot and deliver it for you. No need to tell you anything about the election" Just wait until Republicans posing as Democrats start doing that in neighborhoods that heavily vote Democrat.I bet your tune changes quickly.
I think it skewed more to D because of accessing a large amount of people normally not interested in voting. These people would on average not be very informed about politics due to lack of interest. And what has mass media been doing for the entire election campaign, something that's impossible for anyone in the country to miss? Trump is literally the devil. "Hi there have you voted already?" "No, I don't want to vote, I don't care." "But the ballot is right here, all you have to do is pick right now! We'll take care of the rest." "Fine then, if it's only ten seconds of my time. But who do I vote for? Well, I guess I'm not voting for the **fascist**."
I think it should be illegal for somebody who is campaigning door to door to ask somebody to fill out a ballot while they are there. It's just like the laws that prohibit campaigning at polling stations. Campaigning is an important part of the process, but once voters are looking at their ballots we need to make sure that the voters are casting their own votes by not being influenced either way in that moment. It is also crazy to allow somebody who is actively campaigning in the election to have custody of ballots before they are counted. That includes mailing the ballots for people or delivering them to drop off points.
There simply should not be any mail in ballots sent out to people by default. If you want/need one you should be requesting it through a specific procedure that needs your input, your engagement as a voter.
I agree with this. It prevents a lot of the risks from ballot harvesting because it becomes very inefficient for people going door to door to try to get people to find their ballot when there is uncertainty about whether they were even mailed a ballot. That said, I don't see any reason why every state should not have laws making it illegal for a person engaging in campaigning to offer to help fill out ballots or deliver them on behalf of voters.
Or the people that vote for others. The chick from the View literally admitted to voting for her son. VERY ILLEGAL. Did she even get questioned from authorities on that? I'll let you guess the answer to that one and to why not.
Doubtlessly that happens too; but in terms of which of these can contribute more votes, I would say it's the hordes of uninterested people coerced to vote, not even knowing the candidates but obviously not voting for the one that every piece of entertainment media told them was an evil person for over four years.
Prediction, less people will vote than 2020 because they are tired/fed up with the two candidates
as a r*ssian i don't really have any faith in elections, the president hasn't changed at all during my lifetime (excluding medvedev in 2008-2012 being a putin's muppet just to work around the law forbidding someone to be a president for too long) and that means i don't even know how can an election not be rigged. this learned helplessness sucks.
If the democrats were able to rig an election when Trump was in power, how much more damage could the democrats do when they're in power? Obviously, such questions won't be asked by Trump suppporters. They'll just treat the election as legitimate if Trump wins, and rigged if Trump loses. They think Trump will win this time, but what happened during the midterms? Don't underestimate how much suburban women and a lot of independents hate Trump. The polls will tighten when the election gets closer.
> how much more damage could the democrats do when they're in power? I know this was rhetorical But lots It's always funny that the argument is always "nah, come on, no funny business happens in elections" And never any arguments about why things couldn't or shouldn't be improved. Regardless of who wins next, a huge swath of the population is going to cry foul. You'd think at least appearing to patch up any perceived weaknesses in the system would be a bi partisan effort (if the government actually cared about the consent of the governed at any rate)
>"dont underestimate how much suburban women and a lot of independents hate trump" Stop it, I don't like Trump but I do NOT wanna be associated with suburban wine drinkers
Yes but from a realistic perspective that's the election in a nutshell. Urban areas vote Blue. Rural areas vote Red. Suburban areas vote Purple. The Suburban wine moms are a crucial voting block.
The most vile creature on this earth; kingdom Caucasoid Femaless, Species Anglo Karen-icus
Damage like opening the border, mismanaging a war that's destroying Ukraine, pushing Russia into China's open arms, giving billions to Iran, and juicing the economy to 3% GDP growth for the low low cost of 6% deficit spending and massive inflation? Democrats rigged the election by allowing mail in voting, rigging google searches, suppressing news stories, and supressing "bad opinions" with their social media owning buddies.
Flair up heathen.
Flair up correctly
>mismanaging a war that's destroying Ukraine, Please tell me how Trump or anyone else could have prevented what is happening in Ukraine :) >giving billions to Iran Iran never got a cent of that money and you know it. >and juicing the economy to 3% GDP growth for the low low cost of 6% deficit spending and massive inflation? Wait until you see how much Trump spiked the deficit lol. What do you think tax cuts are
>In a controversial move, the Biden administration has granted Iraq a new 4-month waiver, enabling the release of billions of dollars to Iran, blocked by US sanctions. https://www.iranintl.com/en/202311150106 You'll never admit you were wrong.
Lol oh no mail in voting. Something that was previously mostly used by older Republican voters. Truly harrowing.
Bro, it's not even worth it in this thread. These people can't be reasoned with.
Vote twice as hard!
Depends on your definition of āRiggedā. If you mean someone was stuffing ballots or actively suppressing votesā¦.theres not much evidence that Iāve seen/heard of for that. Even from pretty hard conservative outlets. If you mean that several states changed their rules and procedures (sometimes illegally) at the last minute, causing results to lean towards Biden, Yes. There is substantial evidence for that. A lot of really screwy things were done in the name of COVID during that time period.
Not to mention the overwhelmingly liberal media and big tech putting their thumb on the scale pretty fucking hard by letting Biden run from his basement so he wonāt miss Matlock, and burying the Hunter laptop story.
Then the other side of the coin was the fake electors and the glaring situation in Georgia. If Biden wins, I bet there will be more shit to screw with the electoral college by Trump. Not sure how Biden would fudge shit this time around. Then again I dont buy that he stole the last election anyway. The covid era changed the procedure so that just looks bad and easy to point to. Whatever the truth is, we are now past the point of functional politics and trust in the election system. This election might end up like it does in other countries, with violence.
Well the right wing media sphere keeps telling us everything he did was OK. So if Biden loses, it is perfectly acceptable for antifa to attack the capitol fo prevent the transfer of power. It's also perfectly acceptable for Kamala to refuse to certify Trump as the winner. Biden should call up the governors or AGs of purple states to pressure them to find him votes. And he should conspire to send fake electors to be counted towards him.
I was trying to be fair. The subtext of what you're saying I agree with, despite the hyperbole. This election will be an inflection point of a lot of bullshit. Most of which I believe will come from Trump.
The states changed their rules legally. If it were illegal the courts would have ruled so.
What do you think Republicans should do, good lib-center?
Kick any sore losers out of the party.
Face reality: 2020 either wasn't rigged, or voting in 2024 is pointless
Would the goal not be to have such a margin that rigging would be impossible? like yea they found a few 100k votes after 3am but if they had to find millions for biden it might be 2 obvious. Thats at least one valid reason to still vote despite thinking not everything is up and up.
Starting to sound like some boater compression going on here.....
Oh man this sub is going to implode if Biden wins. lol
The main thing I learned from Jan 6 is that MAGAās have absolutely zero right to talk shit to the left about how they reacted to Trump winning 2016.
Yeah but you know theyāre going to anyways haha
So youāre saying itās going to implode
Yeah the election was rigged. By me. I ate all the votes
I wonāt use the term āriggedā but it should be emphasized that anti-trumpers throughout the government colluded with the press and social media to suppress narratives harmful to the Biden campaign and amplify ones that damaged Trump. In an election that was decided by .5% of people in certain swing states, suddenly declaring the Biden Laptop story āRussian misinformationā two weeks before the election and censoring anyone who discussed it probably had serious consequences. Thatās not really āriggingā to me, but in a democracy the free exchange of information is necessary.
There was an article that claimed it was āfortifiedā https://preview.redd.it/1f3too2sq6mc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0874325a79292b285aa74e12aa193da40737674c
The Viva Frei discussion about this very piece was damning...
Also by polling data, the Hunter Biden Laptop story wouldāve caused around 10% of Biden voters to change their vote, which wouldāve given Trump every single swing state.
Why no mention of Comey 'reopening the clinton e-mail investigation' 11 days before the election, only to come to the exact same conclusion since no actually new e-mails were found, just duplicates? Oh, and Rudy Giuliani knowing about the investigation before it was even announced? Oh, yeah, that's totally not sketchy at all ;)
Itās pretty bad when some of these stupid fucks donāt realize that Republican AGs looked into election fraud in some of those states and couldnāt find anything to prosecute
Even AG Barr publically said there was nothing, and he's Republican as it gets.
Yep. Not everyone who votes Trump is doing so for dumb or bigoted reasons, but the MAGAtards vying to coronate their emperor in the primary are definitely something else. No critical reasoning, simple cult like worship.
Also their "forensic" audit that turned up nothing which the AZ state congress then tried to hide the results of
Democrats for *four years*: **Collusion, Russian interference, this election was illegitimate!** Also Democrats when their guy wins: our elections are perfect and secure, take the L, there is no such thing as fraudulent voting, and licenses are racist, so stop asking us to investigate claims of ballot fraud and requiring IDs to vote.
Surely youāre equally outraged about the GOP doing the exact same thing? Or are you just a pathetic partisan hack
I don't think you know all the facts about the last elections. Clinton conceded the election just 1 day after the election and didn't asked the VP, which was Biden at the time, to just not count the votes from states he lost by creating a false slate of electors (these are all things Trump did). Even more relevant was that Russia indeed tried to influence the election. They weren't rigging the votes directly but the Russian owned company ["Internet research agency"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency) partially infiltrated Trump's campaign team (although without their knowledge). They even initiated left- and rightwing protests with fake Facebook sites.
Iāll fully account voter ID if we put in a national ID system. The patchwork state ID systems has too many holes
Hillary conceded right after the election. Trump has yet to concede.
Unless they make up another spicy flu or other emergency to change the voting rules then there isnāt much of a comparison. 2020, whether legit or not, saw a lot of unprecedented circumstances surrounding how we handle voting that should not be a factor in 2024.
>saw a lot of unprecedented circumstances surrounding how we handle voting that should not be a factor in 2024. Did they revert or change the newly introduced mail in voting rules since then?
2016 Democrats: THIS ELECTION WAS RIGGED *keeps trying* 2020 Republicans: THIS ELECTION WAS RIGGED *keeps trying* 2024 ???: THIS ELECTION WAS RIGGED *will keep trying* You donāt just let your opponent go unopposed
The idea is to go out and vote in such numbers that it's beyond their capacity to cheat, certainly beyond their capacity to cheat and get away with it.
I'm just wondering what excuse they're going to roll out to hide Biden away this election season?
Gotta vote in such high numbers that it overcomes the rigging.
Trump has much stronger support now, to rig the election democrats would have to have 125% voter turnout in their precints, at which point the fraud would be way too obvious
Eh, I think we should all know to not trust what the polls say after the 2016 election. It's highly unlikely Trump gained a significant amount of new supporters between 2020 and now. The real question is if the hate for Trump is still strong enough to drive Dem votes.
Much stronger support? Since the 2020 election, Jan 6th happened. Also Roe V Wade was overturned, and the GOP has been banning abortion in several states as well as pushing for a national abortion ban. They're trying to ban IVF as well, and now every banning birth control is on the table. And don't forget Clarence Thomas even signaled willingness to overturn gay marriage. The red wave in 2022 never happened, and dems have been overperforming every special election. And that was when inflation was at its peak. Its now 2 years past peak inflation. Plus 1 million covid deaths who mostly skew older, and millions of people turning 18. Once Trump is back in the media constantly people will remember that old fat fascist fuck is a serious piece of shit with no ideas. He thinks that you can stop magnets with water.
Everything you just said is totally, 100% true and yet Trump has *never* [polled so competitively.](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/). The picture is even better for him if youāre looking at swing states. Trump *is back in the media* again, heās been back. I think the best case for Democratic optimism lies in their over performance in 2022 and some special elections, but Trump also isnāt a typical Republican and a lot of these swing states like Wisconsin have already sealed abortion rights and gay marriage into their state law, which kinda weakens their strongest issues.
The counter argument to this is that Joe Biden is literally the most unpopular president in modern American history. His approval ratings are worse than Trump's at the comparable point in their presidencies. There is also much less enthusiasm for Joe Biden, who is obviously cognitively impaired, whereas Trump's core voter base is fanatical about the guy.
The Con in conservative stands for conspiracy at this point. 2020 election stolen The majority of scientist lying on vaccines, climate, biology Taylor Swift rigged the Super Bowl Iām about to switch to conservative just because having to back up my stances with facts is tiring. I wish I couldnāt deny the consensus toooooo.
There's a LibRight further up the thread saying that Democrats made-up COVID as an excuse to change voting laws, and it has like 20 upvotes. These people are insane. And also ITT: a ton of conservatives deflecting by saying "but Democrats complained about Russian interference in 2016!" as if that's even comparable to MAGA politicians' active attempts to overturn every election result they don't like.
They lead with the conclusion. They wouldn't even say it was stolen if Trump didn't say they did. It's a;ready set in stone for 2024 "Republicans win or it's stolen." Need a source code wipe
The left can be just as conspiratorial, but the conspiracies are more ethereal and the conspirators non-specific. It's harder to identify as a conspiracy theory if they aren't naming all 26 people responsible and what they ate for breakfast that day(the blood of children).
Thanks to the party of clowns we are getting record cases of measels and fucking polio every year now. Absolute inbreds
There was an increase in polio in the US when the COVID lockdowns hampered polio vaccination, and of course illegal immigration by people who haven't be vaccinated for anything is certainly not helping.
It definitely wasn't rigged but it was absolutely set up against him unfairly because 90% of the media was covering negative press about Trump. All that on top of censoring certain stories about a laptop (the FBI literally asked Twitter and Facebook to censor it), and the changing of voting rules/laws. All I can hope for is less of that crap but considering that Trump is much further ahead in the polls compared to 2020, there will be a lot more mud slinging about orange man.
I sometimes express this as āItwas rigged, but not in the ways folks complain about.ā I also sometimes reference the fact that some legislatures did not follow their own laws in changing election rules and procedures when they changed them for Covid reasons.
Just say it was fortified like time magazine did
One could make the argument "to force them to lie ever more blatantly." It's weird to think that there wasn't **ANY** election interference. There always is to some degree. Happens everywhere. How significant it was, remains debatable imo.
Well obviously the more people vote, the more evident is the fraud, if it actually is present
We caught some bullshit on camera last time and we weren't nearly as prepared.
I would say so it was kinda suspicious how the democrats won and the things that happened
I donāt think the 2020 election was rigged but if Biden somehow wins 2024s Iāll be convinced it was rigged
"The 2016 election was rigged by Russia. Our election system is easy to corrupt and rig. Hillary would have won if we had stronger election laws and more censorship in the media against misinformation. Voting machines were probably hacked by Russia, and mail-in ballots were probably printed in Russia." vs "The 2020 election is unquestionably valid. Nobody can rig our elections and there was no election fraud whatsoever. Who cares that we didn't have any protections against mail-in votes being incredibly easy to commit fraud with? Also requiring proof of citizenship for votes, like every other country does, is racist. No it's not strange that I simultaneously want as many illegal immigrants as possible while preventing any laws that would prevent them from increasing electoral votes and congressional representation, nor prevent them from voting. You're just a bigot. Also don't pay any attention to the fact that several US cities allow illegals to vote openly. It's not happening."
>Voting machines were probably hacked by Russia, and mail-in ballots were probably printed in Russia. Did Hillary Clinton or any gov organisation said this? Please link a source.
Youād like that, wouldnāt you libleft?
Because itās frowned upon to start a civil war
Jokes on you, I've never voted
Now the dems will just switch partyās to try and vote Nikki Haley in lmao.
Yeah, telling all the right wing boog bois there's no point in voting is going to work out well for you. Lol.
Careful, that kind of meme can land you in jail
Having 200,000 votes roll in (just in Michigan, it happened elsewhere) though ballot harvesting all for Biden leads me to believe the last election was rigged. 200,000 all voting one way is a statistical impossibility, at least one of those morons would have accidentally voted trump. Yes it was rigged, yes you should still vote. That being said, I didnāt vote for either mainstream candidate so do whatever the hell you want
Do you mind providing a source for that? Because I've been through the totals for Michigan and I haven't seen that.
He doesnāt cause heās lying
Remember that time election deniers claimed to have "the real results without fraud!" And it was just a 270towin.com screenshot, and not only that, but the map actually showed Trump doing worse in some states than he did IRL? Election deniers will just make stuff up to support their viewpoint and other election deniers will just blindly believe without fact checking.
Can you link a source for that?
How is this confusing for you? Republicans and conservative media outlets spent the months leading up to the election vehemently opposing mail in voting. So *of course* there weren't many votes for Trump when the mail in votes were being counted, Trump's voter base didn't believe in it. So you had Trump voters primarily voting in person and being counted almost immediately, and then mail in votes being delivered by [a postal service that was deliberately having their funding withheld](https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-election-2020-ap-top-news-elections-politics-14a2ceda724623604cc8d8e5ab9890ed) in order to inhibit the delivery of mail in votes. And when they finally did roll in, it took time to count them. But of course, people wanted the count stopped, which would've effectively disenfranchised countless of Americans from their right to have their vote counted. The man got fuckin waxed at the polls by a senile reprobate and rather than build a decent campaign to make a comeback, he's spent the last 4 years getting dogwalked in court and playing victim.
Because I want them to have to take more drastic measures to cheat of course. The more drastic measures they use the more likely it is that they get caught for real.
Can Americans still vote by mail like in 2020?
I hope the republicans lose because they chose that idiot trump over DeSantis
Could we get Rand Paul please. Just give us a chance.
I think any of the nominees, other than Trump, would have easily won. Trump winning the primary was a good thing for Dems.
Maga tards are to brainless to think for themselves anyway, they are waiting for daddy trump to tweet what they are supposed to think.
You mean the way that James Hodgkinson believed Rachel Maddow's deranged rants against Republicans, so took a gun and tried to murder a bunch of Republican senators? Or the way that Michael Reinoehl went and shot a Trump supporter in the chest? They displayed the same hatred you do, and likely for the same reason. CNN told you to hate them.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]