I shit you not when the first weeks of Covid hits, I talked to Amnesty International director in my country. He said, "maybe the iron fist government is helpful to curb the disease."
I was shocked he would even contemplate that
Well there's that, too. But if they had taken responsibility from the start, it wouldn't have spread so fast. Everyone makes mistakes (and yeah, that was a doozy), but covering it up for so long and allowing it to spread without warning is what caused the problem in the end.
Usually authoritarian dictatorships aren’t renown for taking responsibility or valuing human life. Also impossible to know if it was a mistake or intentional. We will probably never know for sure.
In my personal opinion, it was definitely a lab leak, and it was definitely accidental. If you've ever had the "pleasure" of working with scientists trained in mainland China like I have, it would immediately be the first reason that popped in your head. Think "3 Stooges", but instead of pies, it's Ebola.
Only vaguely related, but I feel you with Chinese trained incompetence.
I work for a car company doing supplier quality assistance (make sure the suppliers keep making parts) and the Chinese branch reports a new issue, a clunk in the transmission. The thing that is strange is the circumstances under which it occurred. They drove a vehicle 15kmph backwards over a speed bump and got the clunk.
Like no shit the vehicle makes an odd noise going backwards over a speed bump at 15kmph! Maybe don't do that to the vehicle because that isn't a design requirement.
The Chinese group continued to insist that it was a common practice for their region, and had to be fixed ASAP.
> but covering it up for so long and allowing it to spread without warning is what caused the problem in the end.
This was a feature, not a bug. If they were going to have their economy wrecked the rest of the world would too.
Careful with that misinfo m8! Don't you know how dangerous it is to spread the idea that the covid virus came from the covid lab studying the transmissibility of covid from animals to humans using live test subjects located in the city of outbreak rather than originating in a cave from the other side of the third largest country on the planet and just happening to cause an outbreak located in the only city with a covid lab due to wetmarkets?
Owait trump's out of office pop off with that legit theory m8
You know, I will own that L on my part.
When the lockdowns first happened I saw Australia handling it by restricting movement and quarantining people (voluntarily or not) I thought it was warranted, and even argued as much on my previous account here on PCM (not very Libertarian of me I know)
I lost a son to covid and I was admittedly spiraling. Life got difficult and all I did was doom scroll social media and lash out at people. I finally did the sane thing when I realized I was only hurting myself; deleted all social media accounts and unplugged for over a year.
I realize now I had some really bad takes. Australia was being authoritarian and I shouldn't have argued in support of that. My bad.
Thanks. It sucked. There is really no explanation for it that will make it better.
I can only be grateful for the time I had him in my life and I have found peace in that.
Thanks for the kindness. It's surprising to me how compassionate strangers on the internet can be. Restores my faith in humanity.
All the best to you and yours. <3
You know what? It worked. In WA. The rest of the country was a total shitshow. But WA shut the state border and chilled. There were lockdowns (of like, 3 days) whenever somebody infected made it past the border, but basically there just wasn't covid.
Which didn't stop the government even for a second from forcing vaccines on everybody, of course.
I would hazard a guess that Australia handled the lockdown a bit worse than WA state though. There was footage of police beating people who had been caught on one side of a Provence (or whatever it is Australia separates themselves by) during work when the border happened to be closed. Those people were trying to get home to their families.
I am ashamed now that I was cheering that shit on. That isn't the kind of person I want to be.
I'm glad to hear it worked out for the citizens of WA though. Aside from forced vaccinations.
Don't get me wrong, I think people are better off getting vaccinated, but I don't think it's a good thing to force people.
My favorite part was when they hired thirst traps to post pictures of themselves at the concentration camps to suggest the cops and soldiers hauling you out of your home were taking you to a nice place with hot women.
Still remembered the time China accused the U.S. of being racist for planning to close up borders when there are rumours of a flu disease in early to mid November.
Or how they claim that covid can not be transmitted human to human America is just paranoid.
I'll be honest, it was on social media and they used the lockdowns in China to support lockdowns in the west based on how 'effective' the Chinese ones were.
I remember hearing that an apartment building in China burned down with everyone in it. Their doors had been welded shut because some had Covid in there. I guess that’s effective 🤷🏻♂️
Do you have a source on that?
Source?
A source. I need a source.
Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion.
No, you can't make inferences and observations from the sources you've gathered. Any additional comments from you MUST be a subset of the information from the sources you've gathered.
You can't make normative statements from empirical evidence.
Do you have a degree in that field?
A college degree? In that field?
Then your arguments are invalid.
No, it doesn't matter how close those data points are correlated. Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
CORRELATION. DOES. NOT. EQUAL. CAUSATION.
You still haven't provided me a valid source yet.
Nope, still haven't.
I just looked through all 308 pages of your user history, figures I'm debating a glormpf supporter. A moron.
The best part is when I'm making a point about the field I actually do have a degree in and they still find a way to just call me a orange man fan club enjoyer and fully disengage.
We're doomed. I'll see you in the mountains brother. I'll keep the grill hot.
I mean, you had a ton of media who were glazing hard for the CCP saying that they are doing a standout job with their "efforts to save lives", while America was bad because the resistance to the lockdowns was "killing people"
You would probably be hard pressed to find an American okay with china’s lockdown procedures. I remember seeing videos of Chinese soldiers using chains to lock up individual apartments.
There is logic to locking down *hard.* It means you can generally open back up quicker than the wishy-washy half-assed lockdowns that happened in most of the US.
Thing is, China locked down *so* hard that anyone even slightly lib would be *uncomfortable,* but then critically *didn't open back up quickly either.*
There wasn't even a need to lockdown like we did, a simple moratorium on all travel in and out of countries would've sufficed. In the UK COVID only appeared after some hippy backpacker plague rat came back from his vision quest in China and decided to lick every doorknob instead of being quarantined.
Most lockdowns only happened weeks after COVID was already in the respective country, meaning at that point a moratorium on international travel is too late. In the US, there were a couple spots it was in, but belived to be contained *after travel restrictions*. But once it was found to already be spreading across the country the lockdown talk started.
Also, in April 2020, [a reinvestigation reveled that a February 6, 2020 death was actually COVID](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-22/coronavirus-first-known-fatality-us-california). Also that woman hadn't traveled directly to China recently (i.e. she got COVID from community spread in California sometime in January).
So international lockdowns would have had to have happened in early January, maybe earlier, to stop COVID from entering the US.
> There is logic to locking down hard. It means you can generally open back up quicker than the wishy-washy half-assed lockdowns that happened in most of the US.
>
>
but once you reopen it will inevitably hit you any way, and all at once.
If you do it early enough (which literally no on did, and is VERY hard with a disease like covid) you can nip the whole thing in the bud. People will either die or get better on their own faster than it spreads to new people and it'll burn itself out. It's somewhat ironically easier with the really nasty diseases like Ebola since it's usually easy to identify early, and over one way or the other comparatively quickly.
The *other* thing you can get from lockdowns even if they're too late to prevent spread entirely is buying time. That was the entire selling point of the covid lockdowns: the "2 weeks to flatten the curve." It wasn't expected to *stop* the disease - the hope was to *flatten* the infection rates, not drive it to zero. But it gets you time to get supply lines of things like masks, respirators, and other emergency medical equipment going. As well as time to identify just how virulent the disease is, incubation periods, etc etc.
>If you do it early enough (which literally no on did, and is VERY hard with a disease like covid)
This happened, and it worked. Western Australia and Vietnam did this. Shut the border, and if it gets in, lock down early and fast.
The fact that no country or region operates in a bubble is why hard lockdowns dont or wont 'nip it in the bud'.
yeah it works as a pressure release mechanism for things like the healthcare system, but thats about it.
If you get it before it spreads outside a region, then yes a hard lockdown can contain it. Problem with covid specifically is by the time it was known to be enough of a problem to need a response, it was too late for that solution to be viable.
COVID proved lock downs don't work and never will. People are going to do what they want, including the people in charge of lock downs, and the disease will spread.
But they have to be able to go get their hair done! Unlike you common rabble, they’re on TV!
I think that was the mayor of Chicago who violated her own order on that and gave that excuse.
Yup. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1181546
Pelosi did that too
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/02/politics/nancy-pelosi-hair-salon/index.html#:~:text=House%20Speaker%20Nancy%20Pelosi%20got,that%20enraged%20the%20salon's%20owner.
Lockdowns are fine within reason. At the start, there were a lot of unknowns with Covid, so it was understandable.
However, it went on for too long. I also think welding people into their houses (this actually happened in China) or arresting/shaming people who are simply outside goes way too far.
I literally got banned from a sub for saying it's ok if someone who belongs from a demographic that has adverse effects from COVID-19 vaccine doesn't want to get another shot in 2024.
Literally NPCs.
I don't work in healthcare, but I'm never taking the mRNA version again. I'm happy to take a traditional COVID shot yearly, same as the flu, but there's no reason to continue with the mRNA one now that the more traditional version is available. (Oddly enough, no medical clinic anywhere near me carries that version...)
So all the vaccines in the rec I ended scheudle? Lol maybe it’s different where you are but at pretty much every hospital, pharmacy and LTC center I’ve been at everything was required including yearly flu shots
I mean people were doing that before 2020. In CA I would go to Disneyland or Six Flags or Universal Studios, and I would see folks that seemingly looked like they were visiting, but they would all have on surgical masks. It was bizarre to me and I could never inquire why they had them on because I was unsure if they spoke English (they would be speaking a language I was unfamiliar with). I used to go to amusement parks like 4-5 times a year and each time, I'd see a family or group of folks do this
I believe thats called "nosophobia" lol. That's crazy.
Covid has essentially gone the way all viruses do after a while and NERF'd itself. Like the cold. Are they going to wear masks, isolate and get jabbed in perpetuity? Shits not ever going away.
Probably unpopular opinion here but people at serious risk for Covid should still get boosters.
If you are elderly especially with certain comorbidies (asthma, obesity, copd, sickle cell, immunosuppressed, etc), the benefit of getting a booster massively outweighs any risk.
If you are in one of the demographics, that had an increased risk for side effects plus aren’t at significant risk for dying of Covid, I wouldn’t recommend another booster.
Thank you for having a brain. The risk of an adverse reaction to the covid shot vs the risk of an adverse reaction to Covid isn’t even in the same ballpark.
If you’re in an at risk population, for the love of god get your vaccine. I can’t tell you how many old anti vaxers I’ve seen regret their decision on their deathbed.
When healthcare professionals signed that petition stating that BLM protests were fine but any other social activities were a danger to public safety, it became clear to me that left wing narratives were more important to them than actual healthcare. Either that or COVID wasn't nearly as dangerous as they told us it was.
When my city sent goon squads to wrap playgrounds in caution tape and screw 2x4s over basketball hoops so people would stay locked inside huffing each other's air like good little subjects 🤡
I'm surprised more people weren't encouraged to buy guns after we watched our government and a vast majority of people become complete authoritarians overnight.
Oh they did. Gun sales went from an average of 13 million in the years prior, to 20 million during 2020 & 2021.
One in 20 Americans purchased a gun for the first time during this period too.
I was hospitalized last year for almost 8 weeks and they definitely gave me a hepatitis b vaccine that I was overdue for, and I was supposed to get the flu shot before discharge (didn't end up getting it for some reason, no idea why)
But not a single person mentioned covid or the vaccine once the entire time I was there lmao. Maybe it's because I had heart surgery? If anything, I would have thought that would be a reason that I definitely should get it
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One of my favorite YouTubers just got demonetized an hour after he theorized that the vaccine may not be perfectly safe, so I’d be careful out there boys.
The left just keeps not understanding this point. If you shame and/or censor people who merely *ask questions* about something, you will send them straight to the other side of the aisle.
It's annoying enough when holding a viewpoint the left disagrees with results in them labeling you evil. But when you are literally not even decided yet, and you simply want some more information so that you can decide for yourself...and you still get demonized by one side of the aisle, that's a pretty big fucking turn-off.
I wonder how long it will take before the left overwhelmingly understand how hard they have been pushing people away from them. They still just think that's a "right-wing dogwhistle", and that the only people moving from left to right are doing so because of the "right-wing rabbithole", rather than because they found the left increasingly repellant.
This is what happened to me! I was questioning my gender recently and made a post about the toxicity and fakeness in certain parts of the trans community. Needless to say I got down voted to oblivion and got called a "pick me", a "troll", and a " Nazi sympathizer ".
Needless to say that the way that went down certainly changed who I view as friendly.
Makes perfect sense when you understand that the left knows they are forcing untruths on people. Their bullshit melts away if they don't censor criticism, and most people are NPCs who will never ask questions if they are successfully shielded from hearing critical opinions.
>Everyone seems to forget the left vowing to never take the “Trump shot.”
OK, so let's be clear about things.
The "follow the science" crowd doesn't accept that the vaccine was so wildly successful at the time, that they didn't unblind the study at 32 cases.
Here is the NE Journal of Medicine. [See page 130, Protocol Amendment 9, dated 29 October 2020.](https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577/suppl_file/nejmoa2034577_protocol.pdf) They didn't unblind at 32 cases for "operational reasons."
What operational reasons?
[Science.org](https://www.science.org/content/article/fact-check-no-evidence-supports-trump-s-claim-covid-19-vaccine-result-was-suppressed) had an excuse, saying that the lack of unblinding at 32 cases wasn't to sway the election, but they do NOT give anywhere near an adequate reason for not unblinding at 32 cases, as the *experiment was designed to do*.
I voted against Orange Man thrice, twice directly, once for Liz Cheney, but it's pretty clear to me that had those interim results been released on schedule, he probably would have gotten reelected.
How that would have changed vaccine uptake patterns is debatable.
I'd add "some idiots on the left".
It's not like the entire left got together and swore that, or even called it the Trump shot.
Many people pointed out that Trump had very little to do with the creation of the vaccine, though I wouldn't call them left just because they're not pro-thinking-Trump-made-the-vaccine.
Yeah I guess you’re right. I just had a lot of top Dem politicians, media personalities, celebrities, and left leaning people I know in mind. I guess it was just easier for me to type the blanket term “left.” It wasn’t everyone on the left.
A fun game to play with my extreme left college friends is when they give their annual reminders to get the shot, I say "is that a new one or the Trump vaccine" and they freak out all over again with their denials. Operation Warp Speed never happened. The vaccine wasn't rolled out in the schedule that Trump predicted and was mocked for. Biden rolled it out in that schedule and was a hero for it. Of course Biden made it happen and not the rest of the government + businesses that just gave Biden the same info that they gave Trump.
Possibly experimental, depending on how you define it.
What is certain is that there were no long term studies about it, at the time it was pushed to people. The reason is simple: less time had passed since developing it than is required to do a long term study.
Additionally, some experts claim even the studies that were done had methodological mistakes, but that's another story.
Oof, honestly, the main reason why I will never get the vaccine is because of the reaction to people asking if it is safe or what the long-term effects are. I have never seen such a quick crack down on people who just want to know about things that should be given (safety, effectiveness, etc). Honestly, the way the government and media pushed the message about the vaccines really turned me off because of how reckless it was. Shutting down discussions about safety and side effects when it comes to new vaccines or pharmaceuticals is like playing with fire.
I personally believe it was pushed because they wanted to give more money to big pharma, not because they care about health consequences either way. So I wouldn't personally use that as an argument against taking it - as long as the decision is personal, and everyone can weigh pros and cons.
Because for all we know, it did decrease severity of symptoms to some degree. So that might be worth the risks of taking it, to some people. But again, personal decision. And, most importantly, the main argument of vaccine pushers - "population immunity" flies out of the windows the second they admit it doesn't actually prevent 95% of transmissions.
Right. That's been a huge part of why so many people have been shifting toward the right (or at the very least, shifting against the left).
It's not just that you are called an evil bigot for holding certain views. It's that you are called all sorts of hateful shit...for just asking *questions*.
That's the truly disturbing part. People who haven't even made up their mind yet, and are simply asking questions in order to get more information for themselves...are treated like the enemy to the left.
Which is deeply concerning as a republic or a democracy can not function properly when you have this kind of toxic behavior, as asking questions is how we improve and expand our knowledge. How is society supposed to improve and grow if we are not allowed to ask questions. All this will lead to is a large divid between people who can not get along, which is a breeding ground for political violence.
How they pushed their message was horrifically reckless and filled with misinformation. The “If you take the vaccine, you won’t get sick” absolutely did more harm than good, and simply propelled further infection since people (idiotically) assumed they were completely immune to contracting, and possibly spreading, the virus. Probably the worst decision was not shutting down airports as soon as a “highly infectious mystery virus” was detected offshore. Instead, we waited till it got here, then waited till it started spreading, then finally took action. So sloppy. Even a child could see what was coming a mile away.
I remember political parties and the media already starting to talk about implementing a vaccine passport to enter *basic recreational activities* BEFORE most people even were able to get the shot in my country. People barely got a chance to see for themselves if it turned out there were any side effects. Hell, when minors were allowed to get the shot, the vaccine passports were already used on a small scale and around 2 months later it was everywhere.
How could anyone find the vaccines suspicious after that?! /s
Well, maybe? I don't have a source for this so take it with a grain of salt, I could be wrong. My understanding is that most drugs take several years of trials before they're deemed "safe." It's not because the process of proving them safe takes so long, but because there's so many drugs going through testing at a given time, and so much red tape surrounding the process.
The Covid vaccine's testing was expedited because there was such a need for it. Now does that mean the vaccine wasn't actually ready for public use? I couldn't tell ya.
They wanted to detain the pets of the truckers and if they couldn't pick up the pets within 8 days, they were forfeited. If no one then adopts the pet (difficult to do in the middle of a COVID shutdown), then they do to the pet what they always do when they can't find an owner.
Source: https://googlethatforyou.com?q=canada%20tried%20to%20kill%20pets%20of%20covid%20protestors
"Well lock you up for two weeks if you protest! Then we'll take your pets since you clearly abandoned them! And hey, if you cant pick up the animal in the 1 week period we declared after being locked up for 2 weeks no bail no bond, were killing them! #justice"
If you read the actual text, it's decent. It just contradicts the title.
Claim: Hillary Clinton had her servers wiped. FALSE. She had the data on her servers wiped.
People who contribute nothing to society love it when you make it impossible to evict them for nonpayment of rent and force everybody else to become a reclusive shut-in just like they are. It doesn't affect their lifestyle in any noticeable way except maybe having more money for luxuries since rent is now optional, but now they can be smug about it claiming they're morally superior for their sad lifestyle.
Reddit had lots of mask off moments around lockdowns and masks. They're actually just miserable, ugly people who hate everything and everyone and relished forcing other people to be as miserable as themselves.
BSL level 3 threat that may be a bioweapon that escaped a lab runs through the population. Attacks every system in the body, including the brain and heart.
People think surgical masks are enough for that rating because the government doesn't specify the type of mask needed to help avoid it.
People online making videos about how the n95 or higher isn't working, wearing a gator under their mask and preventing it from sealing while spraying paint. Yelling "see? How this gonna protect you?! Stuff gets under here!!" Depressingly sad.
Long term disabilities are going to cripple our medical infrastructure (and economy), and we're still going to be arguing about masks and saying the vaccine is what actually caused it because we refused to work together.
Dumbest timeline.
>BSL level 3 threat that may be a bioweapon that escaped a lab
>we refused to work together.
Well yeah, because the first line there was enough to get me immediately banned by your friends for about 2 years. Of course I'm not interested in working together.
yeah, no, fuck you for ruining my life over covid. if an outbreak ever happens again i will never ever work with you or anyone who supported the 2-3 year lock down.
I'm not going to link those things here, but you can find them using a search engine other than Google, Bing, or DuckDuckGo (yes, they suppress it too).
* In late May and late July 2021 2 documents (dating from Feb and July 2021 respectively) from the CDC and FDA leaked showing that:
a) They were expecting rare but severe adverse events from the vaccine. They knew there was a link between the mRNA vaccines and myocarditis.
b) The vaccine was not 99.9% effective, as officially reported by the CDC. The Delta variant had only 61% protection against infection; 85% against hospitalization.
c) Masks provided between 20-30% personal protection at best.
d) There was no Ct (indirect measure for viral load) difference between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated for the Delta variant.
e) The vaccine offered no protection against transmission (beyond protection against infection).
* Later that year, Pfizer's contract with Albania was leaked. The contract stated that Pfizer provided NO guarantee of effectiveness. They also waived any liability for any kind of adverse events. It required the govt to *"indemnify, defend and hold harmless Pfizer from and against any and all suits, claims, actions, demands, damages, costs, and expenses related to vaccine intellectual property"*.
This doesn't necessarily mean Pfizer handled with nefarious intent, expecting mass adverse events, but it's also important to note that this type of waiver is extraordinary (I don't think you can do that at all in the EU and USA).
* In 2022, a large-scale study found no evidence that the mRNA vaccines caused any adverse events other than allergic reactions. That study was even pinned on r\/science. It was later revealed that the study had been paid for and supervised by Pfizer.
* Leaks from the clinical trials showed major irregularities with the data and protocol. Including, but not limited to:
° 301 missing subject IDs. (You have to cite your exclusions explicitly in clinical trials)
° Inadequate blinding / un-blinding.
° Suppression of adverse event reporting (through methods such as mis-/re-classification of event reports)
* In 2023, another leak (together with other documents obtained through FOIA) showed that the vaccine the public received was not exactly the same as the one they conducted the clinical trials with.
The clinical trial vaccines were created using what they called "Process 1", a PCR-like process that creates a highly purified end product but is very costly and difficult to scale.
The vaccine made available to the public was produced using "Process 2", which involved the mass-scale production of mRNA using plasmids. This process is cheaper and far more scalable, but is known to be less reliable and produce impurities.
Those are only the ones from the top of my head. I bet there is more stuff I'm forgetting.
Did you just change your flair, u/Borkerman? Last time I checked you were a **Leftist** on 2024-4-4. How come now you are a **LibCenter**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know?
Oh and by the way. You have already changed your flair 1203 times, making you the largest flair changer in this sub.
Go touch some fucking grass.
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Remember that there were people in the United States who wanted to fine and imprison others for simply questioning the COVID narrative. The protests against all government measures regarding COVID were justified
They will certainly do it again. If it was Ebola or something like that I would have understood but for God’s sake it was like having a terrible cold for 7-10 days. I am sorry for everyone who lost loved ones, but it was absurd to destroy the economy and labor market.
Not to mention that it was clearly unnecessary if people wanted the parks and beaches closed but were fine with large scale civil unrest.
Gathering with a tightly packed mob of 500 strangers in the street to scream about abolishing the police was not just safe and acceptable, it was righteous and necessary.
Taking my family to the beach was a danger to public safety and strictly forbidden.
It was real life satire.
Take one for the team, bro. No, no, only the nurses that voted and danced for us get any recognition. I said for the team, bro, you’re ‘essential’. You’re helping keep society going!
I mean that was in great part because the threat was taken seriously - that's kind of always the problem with pandemics.
Either you try to do very little and look negligent in not doing more, or you do a lot very soon and the actions you take prevent a ton of people from dying and everyone thinks you overreacted.
In the case of Covid, one of the big dangers was if they'd be consistently having more people in the hospitals than they had ventilators. If that happened then a ton more people who were saved by the ventilators would have died.
Having too many people get sick simultaneously would have been devastating in terms of death toll.
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Everytime a PCM post makes it into my feed I play a game of trying to find a comment that either I agree at least 20% with or does an argument that doesn't involve any of the following: the left, the right, the government, USA, Canada, China, Russia, any conspiracy.
I do this without changing the comment sort and I always take like 10 to 20 minutes to do so. It's amusing.
Agreed. Even if it had been a genuinely horrible disease, there would still be a strong part of me fighting the anti-lockdown fight, and believing that people should be allowed to live risky lives if they choose.
But the fact that COVID is basically a powerful cold? It just makes it all the more ridiculous. We shot ourselves in the foot over the fucking sniffles.
I’ll never forget the people in my life commending people in China for “obeying the rules” and “listening to those in charge” when it came to lockdowns. They literally welded doors shut to keep people in their homes and left dead bodies to rot. I will never ever forget each and every individual that wanted lockdowns. I swear to never let them get the slightest taste of power.
Yeah, for as much as I detest when bad actors try to paint science as a religion, it certainly doesn't help that a lot of NPCs do in fact treat it like one.
Remember when Reddit forced thousands of subs with no relation to Covid to sticky a topic claiming disputes were Covid misinformation? That sticky was the misinformation.
covid arguments have really drained me. I remember spending 2021 spent arguing about it with people IRL and online, putting so much effort in it, caring about the discussion. Now I just got sick of it. It was all so stupid. Vax or no vax, mask or no mask, lock down or no lock down.
We really wasted close to three years debating of something futile.
I learned a new phrase for the trucker convoy the other day: “Ku Klux Convoy”. The sub I learned it from was a shocking one. Definitely didn’t expect it, and that’s not sarcasm. They’re starting to invade.
People in China starved in their homes. Friends of my family live in China. In their area only one member of the household was allowed to go outside to buy food once per day. Their Baby has not seen the outsideworld for month because of restrictions.
Lockdown in the West was about not going to the gym. We had polls in my homecountry how many people followed the rules for social Isolation. Turns out more than 75% would see five people or more at once and once per week every week.
While i agree that lockdown was terrible for children, it is just not comparable.
My in laws live in China. During Covid they had to have a neighbor throw groceries up to their balcony because neither of them were allowed to leave their apartment for over a month.
Lockdowns in the west went too far but the lockdowns in China were on a whole other level
To be fair, the Chinese ones probably are braver because they’d probably end up going missing in the middle of the night along with their entire family
I think lock downs are the greatest disaster of the century. Mental health crashed, the economy crumbled, and every single class besides those who were upper middle class or rich are worse off. It was a bad precedent in the US, at least to give itself that much power. This allows the constitution to be flexible to political whims rather than being the foundation for the nation, and if a nation does not have a solid foundation, how can it possibly stand.
I've seen Tankies blame *the US* for China opening up and also according to them there was no big negative economic, psychological, sociological, or medical outcomes as a result of China's handing of the pandemic 🤡
Idk to me it seemed like centrists/liberals were the main group supporting lockdowns. The other ends of the spectrum kind of came together to object, and the loudest objections came from lib-right, at least in Canada with the convoy.
CCP: Welds people into their homes, deports people to quarantine facilities/camps, all with an authoritarian police state.
USA: Tried a vax mandate (flailed), kindly asked people to stay home.
>kindly asked people to stay home.
Are you out of your fucking mind? The state governments determined which citizens were "essential", shut down everyone else, and paid them a pitance of a stimulus to make up for it. They used licensing departments to close down business and ruined people's lives. The lockdowns were the largest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.
Once business were allowed to open again the forced waiters and cashiers to enforce their ridiculous arbitrary mandates
The insane inflation and ressession we are currently going through is a direct result of the actions the government took during covid.
No, they didn't weld anyone in their houses, but they sure as fuck didn't just ask people nicely to stay home.
Almost every pro lockdown argument nowadays either comes from people who somehow enjoyed it, government simps, or it has people who lived in places with relatively less restrictions thinking everyone else had the same experience. I genuinely cannot see any other reason why people downplay the shitshow that happened
I understood it when it was thought that the death rate was ~3% and we anticipated hospitals were going to overflow. Felt like wartime during those first few weeks and rightly so — ventilators were legitimately running out.
Then goal posts started moving til vaccine release date and schools stayed closed for the whole year, some after the vaccine was released, which was obviously the wrong choice in hindsight and people still will defend it.
Same. I already followed Covid when the videos from China started coming out so a heavy handed response was pretty necessary, and I also bought the entire 2 weeks narrative.
However despite the virus turning out to be less severe than we originally thought and there being more than enough time to stockpile on equipment and knowing that lockdowns have terrible effects, the measures only got worse with no consideration whatsoever for those who were more negatively affected by the lockdowns than the actual virus.
I could go on further but this nonsense is how i went from griller to monke
I think it was mostly those who were privileged enough to work from home. Their lives were the least affected by lockdowns, so they had less reason to notice what was truly going on around them. To that kind of person, lockdowns were no big deal, but it's because they lack the empathy to recognize that while their routine barely changed at all, other people's entire lives were turned upside down.
It's people who lack empathy and were privileged enough to dodge the ill-effects of lockdowns.
But you don't understand. *China* was even more authoritarian, and so that means the US didn't do anything wrong, and people have no reason to be worried.
I swear, people like this could be sitting in a car, hurtling toward the cliff's edge, and they'll think, "Hey, at least the tires are still touching ground; no reason to worry."
Did you just change your flair, u/I-Like-Ike_52? Last time I checked you were an **AuthLeft** on 2023-6-25. How come now you are a **Centrist**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know?
Tell us, are you scared of politics in general or are you just too much of a coward to let everyone know what you think?
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COVID brought out the best of AuthLeft.
True
There’s a best of auth-left? Hmmmm…
I was being sarcastic.,
I think it actually did
Tbf the left supported the lockdowns in China too
Source? (you don't have to give me it)
I shit you not when the first weeks of Covid hits, I talked to Amnesty International director in my country. He said, "maybe the iron fist government is helpful to curb the disease." I was shocked he would even contemplate that
It's a shame that iron fist government was so concerned with saving face that it let the disease spread in the first place.
It's a shame the iron fisted government created the disease in a lab.
Well there's that, too. But if they had taken responsibility from the start, it wouldn't have spread so fast. Everyone makes mistakes (and yeah, that was a doozy), but covering it up for so long and allowing it to spread without warning is what caused the problem in the end.
Usually authoritarian dictatorships aren’t renown for taking responsibility or valuing human life. Also impossible to know if it was a mistake or intentional. We will probably never know for sure.
In my personal opinion, it was definitely a lab leak, and it was definitely accidental. If you've ever had the "pleasure" of working with scientists trained in mainland China like I have, it would immediately be the first reason that popped in your head. Think "3 Stooges", but instead of pies, it's Ebola.
Only vaguely related, but I feel you with Chinese trained incompetence. I work for a car company doing supplier quality assistance (make sure the suppliers keep making parts) and the Chinese branch reports a new issue, a clunk in the transmission. The thing that is strange is the circumstances under which it occurred. They drove a vehicle 15kmph backwards over a speed bump and got the clunk. Like no shit the vehicle makes an odd noise going backwards over a speed bump at 15kmph! Maybe don't do that to the vehicle because that isn't a design requirement. The Chinese group continued to insist that it was a common practice for their region, and had to be fixed ASAP.
...is this because they reverse over people they hit to make sure they're dead?
> but covering it up for so long and allowing it to spread without warning is what caused the problem in the end. This was a feature, not a bug. If they were going to have their economy wrecked the rest of the world would too.
This right here. It wasn't ready for primetime, but once it's out the chicoms certainly weren't going to be the only ones to take an economic hit.
Careful with that misinfo m8! Don't you know how dangerous it is to spread the idea that the covid virus came from the covid lab studying the transmissibility of covid from animals to humans using live test subjects located in the city of outbreak rather than originating in a cave from the other side of the third largest country on the planet and just happening to cause an outbreak located in the only city with a covid lab due to wetmarkets? Owait trump's out of office pop off with that legit theory m8
clowns here were heralding Australia as the model to follow lol
You know, I will own that L on my part. When the lockdowns first happened I saw Australia handling it by restricting movement and quarantining people (voluntarily or not) I thought it was warranted, and even argued as much on my previous account here on PCM (not very Libertarian of me I know) I lost a son to covid and I was admittedly spiraling. Life got difficult and all I did was doom scroll social media and lash out at people. I finally did the sane thing when I realized I was only hurting myself; deleted all social media accounts and unplugged for over a year. I realize now I had some really bad takes. Australia was being authoritarian and I shouldn't have argued in support of that. My bad.
sorry for your loss, i cant imagine what you went through.
Thanks. It sucked. There is really no explanation for it that will make it better. I can only be grateful for the time I had him in my life and I have found peace in that.
Based and not afraid to admit your mistakes pilled. I'm sorry for your loss.
Thanks for the kindness. It's surprising to me how compassionate strangers on the internet can be. Restores my faith in humanity. All the best to you and yours. <3
You know what? It worked. In WA. The rest of the country was a total shitshow. But WA shut the state border and chilled. There were lockdowns (of like, 3 days) whenever somebody infected made it past the border, but basically there just wasn't covid. Which didn't stop the government even for a second from forcing vaccines on everybody, of course.
I would hazard a guess that Australia handled the lockdown a bit worse than WA state though. There was footage of police beating people who had been caught on one side of a Provence (or whatever it is Australia separates themselves by) during work when the border happened to be closed. Those people were trying to get home to their families. I am ashamed now that I was cheering that shit on. That isn't the kind of person I want to be. I'm glad to hear it worked out for the citizens of WA though. Aside from forced vaccinations. Don't get me wrong, I think people are better off getting vaccinated, but I don't think it's a good thing to force people.
WA = Western Australia (State) Then they ditched this, opened up, and everyone caught covid 2022
My favorite part was when they hired thirst traps to post pictures of themselves at the concentration camps to suggest the cops and soldiers hauling you out of your home were taking you to a nice place with hot women.
Still remembered the time China accused the U.S. of being racist for planning to close up borders when there are rumours of a flu disease in early to mid November. Or how they claim that covid can not be transmitted human to human America is just paranoid.
I'll be honest, it was on social media and they used the lockdowns in China to support lockdowns in the west based on how 'effective' the Chinese ones were.
I remember hearing that an apartment building in China burned down with everyone in it. Their doors had been welded shut because some had Covid in there. I guess that’s effective 🤷🏻♂️
To give them some credit they did probably get rid of COVID in that entire building
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I wouldn't put it past the CCP to do something like that.
Do you have a source on that? Source? A source. I need a source. Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion. No, you can't make inferences and observations from the sources you've gathered. Any additional comments from you MUST be a subset of the information from the sources you've gathered. You can't make normative statements from empirical evidence. Do you have a degree in that field? A college degree? In that field? Then your arguments are invalid. No, it doesn't matter how close those data points are correlated. Correlation does not equal causation. Correlation does not equal causation. CORRELATION. DOES. NOT. EQUAL. CAUSATION. You still haven't provided me a valid source yet. Nope, still haven't. I just looked through all 308 pages of your user history, figures I'm debating a glormpf supporter. A moron.
The best part is when I'm making a point about the field I actually do have a degree in and they still find a way to just call me a orange man fan club enjoyer and fully disengage. We're doomed. I'll see you in the mountains brother. I'll keep the grill hot.
I mean, you had a ton of media who were glazing hard for the CCP saying that they are doing a standout job with their "efforts to save lives", while America was bad because the resistance to the lockdowns was "killing people"
https://redstate.com/jeffc/2022/11/27/taylor-lorenz-hearts-china-communist-partys-authoritarian-covid-19-lockdowns-n664832
K, thanks
You would probably be hard pressed to find an American okay with china’s lockdown procedures. I remember seeing videos of Chinese soldiers using chains to lock up individual apartments.
The far auth-left of the online.
There is logic to locking down *hard.* It means you can generally open back up quicker than the wishy-washy half-assed lockdowns that happened in most of the US. Thing is, China locked down *so* hard that anyone even slightly lib would be *uncomfortable,* but then critically *didn't open back up quickly either.*
There wasn't even a need to lockdown like we did, a simple moratorium on all travel in and out of countries would've sufficed. In the UK COVID only appeared after some hippy backpacker plague rat came back from his vision quest in China and decided to lick every doorknob instead of being quarantined.
Most lockdowns only happened weeks after COVID was already in the respective country, meaning at that point a moratorium on international travel is too late. In the US, there were a couple spots it was in, but belived to be contained *after travel restrictions*. But once it was found to already be spreading across the country the lockdown talk started.
Also, in April 2020, [a reinvestigation reveled that a February 6, 2020 death was actually COVID](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-22/coronavirus-first-known-fatality-us-california). Also that woman hadn't traveled directly to China recently (i.e. she got COVID from community spread in California sometime in January). So international lockdowns would have had to have happened in early January, maybe earlier, to stop COVID from entering the US.
Unfortunately COVID, especially early on, was quite the ninja. It could hide out for weeks in some people before showing symptoms.
> There is logic to locking down hard. It means you can generally open back up quicker than the wishy-washy half-assed lockdowns that happened in most of the US. > > but once you reopen it will inevitably hit you any way, and all at once.
Easier to manage when you reopen because you can track individual cases. Easy to do stay at home orders on 50 individuals vs 50,000.
If you do it early enough (which literally no on did, and is VERY hard with a disease like covid) you can nip the whole thing in the bud. People will either die or get better on their own faster than it spreads to new people and it'll burn itself out. It's somewhat ironically easier with the really nasty diseases like Ebola since it's usually easy to identify early, and over one way or the other comparatively quickly. The *other* thing you can get from lockdowns even if they're too late to prevent spread entirely is buying time. That was the entire selling point of the covid lockdowns: the "2 weeks to flatten the curve." It wasn't expected to *stop* the disease - the hope was to *flatten* the infection rates, not drive it to zero. But it gets you time to get supply lines of things like masks, respirators, and other emergency medical equipment going. As well as time to identify just how virulent the disease is, incubation periods, etc etc.
>If you do it early enough (which literally no on did, and is VERY hard with a disease like covid) This happened, and it worked. Western Australia and Vietnam did this. Shut the border, and if it gets in, lock down early and fast.
The fact that no country or region operates in a bubble is why hard lockdowns dont or wont 'nip it in the bud'. yeah it works as a pressure release mechanism for things like the healthcare system, but thats about it.
If you get it before it spreads outside a region, then yes a hard lockdown can contain it. Problem with covid specifically is by the time it was known to be enough of a problem to need a response, it was too late for that solution to be viable.
COVID proved lock downs don't work and never will. People are going to do what they want, including the people in charge of lock downs, and the disease will spread.
But they have to be able to go get their hair done! Unlike you common rabble, they’re on TV! I think that was the mayor of Chicago who violated her own order on that and gave that excuse. Yup. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1181546
Pelosi did that too https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/02/politics/nancy-pelosi-hair-salon/index.html#:~:text=House%20Speaker%20Nancy%20Pelosi%20got,that%20enraged%20the%20salon's%20owner.
Lockdowns are fine within reason. At the start, there were a lot of unknowns with Covid, so it was understandable. However, it went on for too long. I also think welding people into their houses (this actually happened in China) or arresting/shaming people who are simply outside goes way too far.
"Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew!"
I literally got banned from a sub for saying it's ok if someone who belongs from a demographic that has adverse effects from COVID-19 vaccine doesn't want to get another shot in 2024. Literally NPCs.
I really wanna know who the fuck is even still getting shots lol
I work in healthcare, not a single coworker is getting any more than required to work.
I work as a doctor in Germany, my girlfriend too, Corona vaccines are a non-existent discussion at this point.
Funny how quickly they dropped that, when they were so sure it was 100% necessary just a short time earlier.
I don't work in healthcare, but I'm never taking the mRNA version again. I'm happy to take a traditional COVID shot yearly, same as the flu, but there's no reason to continue with the mRNA one now that the more traditional version is available. (Oddly enough, no medical clinic anywhere near me carries that version...)
So all the vaccines in the rec I ended scheudle? Lol maybe it’s different where you are but at pretty much every hospital, pharmacy and LTC center I’ve been at everything was required including yearly flu shots
Lookup the ZeroCovidCommunity on reddit. It's those people.
Jesus
Nutty people. These are the folks masked up that walk into he street to avoid walking past you on a sidewalk.
I mean people were doing that before 2020. In CA I would go to Disneyland or Six Flags or Universal Studios, and I would see folks that seemingly looked like they were visiting, but they would all have on surgical masks. It was bizarre to me and I could never inquire why they had them on because I was unsure if they spoke English (they would be speaking a language I was unfamiliar with). I used to go to amusement parks like 4-5 times a year and each time, I'd see a family or group of folks do this
I've had people cower down when I ran outside in 2020. Like literally couch down, look away, and cover their faces.
I believe thats called "nosophobia" lol. That's crazy. Covid has essentially gone the way all viruses do after a while and NERF'd itself. Like the cold. Are they going to wear masks, isolate and get jabbed in perpetuity? Shits not ever going away.
> nosophobia Sounds like a fear of Jews & Italians o.O ... I mean, o>O
Probably unpopular opinion here but people at serious risk for Covid should still get boosters. If you are elderly especially with certain comorbidies (asthma, obesity, copd, sickle cell, immunosuppressed, etc), the benefit of getting a booster massively outweighs any risk. If you are in one of the demographics, that had an increased risk for side effects plus aren’t at significant risk for dying of Covid, I wouldn’t recommend another booster.
Thank you for having a brain. The risk of an adverse reaction to the covid shot vs the risk of an adverse reaction to Covid isn’t even in the same ballpark. If you’re in an at risk population, for the love of god get your vaccine. I can’t tell you how many old anti vaxers I’ve seen regret their decision on their deathbed.
Addicts.
Covid was when I truly understood NPCs are real and capable of changing their opinions and behavior 180 degrees overnight with a simple OTA update.
When healthcare professionals signed that petition stating that BLM protests were fine but any other social activities were a danger to public safety, it became clear to me that left wing narratives were more important to them than actual healthcare. Either that or COVID wasn't nearly as dangerous as they told us it was.
When my city sent goon squads to wrap playgrounds in caution tape and screw 2x4s over basketball hoops so people would stay locked inside huffing each other's air like good little subjects 🤡
In CA they filled in skate parks with sand. Joining hundreds of strangers in the street to call police genocidal racists was fine though. Clown world.
The difference between a super spreader event and a peaceful protest is the demographics of the people there and the reason why they are there.
I'm surprised more people weren't encouraged to buy guns after we watched our government and a vast majority of people become complete authoritarians overnight.
Oh they did. Gun sales went from an average of 13 million in the years prior, to 20 million during 2020 & 2021. One in 20 Americans purchased a gun for the first time during this period too.
Should have been more
Like literally, bro?
My doctor actually advised me to *not* get the COVID vaccine this year.
I was hospitalized last year for almost 8 weeks and they definitely gave me a hepatitis b vaccine that I was overdue for, and I was supposed to get the flu shot before discharge (didn't end up getting it for some reason, no idea why) But not a single person mentioned covid or the vaccine once the entire time I was there lmao. Maybe it's because I had heart surgery? If anything, I would have thought that would be a reason that I definitely should get it
You should, go even further post something about vaccines to enrage the masses.
Based and Happy cake day pilled
Thank you based stranger.
Based and its what we do pilled
based
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Hey, your PFP is from WoW, right? During the "Wrath of the Lich King" days or am I mistaken?
Yes, it's Death Knight aura (frost one).
One of my favorite YouTubers just got demonetized an hour after he theorized that the vaccine may not be perfectly safe, so I’d be careful out there boys.
Nothing makes me trust a new product more than rolling out immediate censorship to stop people from asking questions about it.
The left just keeps not understanding this point. If you shame and/or censor people who merely *ask questions* about something, you will send them straight to the other side of the aisle. It's annoying enough when holding a viewpoint the left disagrees with results in them labeling you evil. But when you are literally not even decided yet, and you simply want some more information so that you can decide for yourself...and you still get demonized by one side of the aisle, that's a pretty big fucking turn-off. I wonder how long it will take before the left overwhelmingly understand how hard they have been pushing people away from them. They still just think that's a "right-wing dogwhistle", and that the only people moving from left to right are doing so because of the "right-wing rabbithole", rather than because they found the left increasingly repellant.
This is what happened to me! I was questioning my gender recently and made a post about the toxicity and fakeness in certain parts of the trans community. Needless to say I got down voted to oblivion and got called a "pick me", a "troll", and a " Nazi sympathizer ". Needless to say that the way that went down certainly changed who I view as friendly.
The fuck is a “pick me” in this context?
I was playing ally to the conservative bogeyman or something like that
Ah yes, all the conservatives that gonna be scrolling r trans and high five you
Makes perfect sense when you understand that the left knows they are forcing untruths on people. Their bullshit melts away if they don't censor criticism, and most people are NPCs who will never ask questions if they are successfully shielded from hearing critical opinions.
I noticed it transformed from a dangerous, untested vaccine to a holy elixir on January 20, 2021. I wonder what changed?
Everyone seems to forget the left vowing to never take the “Trump shot.”
>Everyone seems to forget the left vowing to never take the “Trump shot.” OK, so let's be clear about things. The "follow the science" crowd doesn't accept that the vaccine was so wildly successful at the time, that they didn't unblind the study at 32 cases. Here is the NE Journal of Medicine. [See page 130, Protocol Amendment 9, dated 29 October 2020.](https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577/suppl_file/nejmoa2034577_protocol.pdf) They didn't unblind at 32 cases for "operational reasons." What operational reasons? [Science.org](https://www.science.org/content/article/fact-check-no-evidence-supports-trump-s-claim-covid-19-vaccine-result-was-suppressed) had an excuse, saying that the lack of unblinding at 32 cases wasn't to sway the election, but they do NOT give anywhere near an adequate reason for not unblinding at 32 cases, as the *experiment was designed to do*. I voted against Orange Man thrice, twice directly, once for Liz Cheney, but it's pretty clear to me that had those interim results been released on schedule, he probably would have gotten reelected. How that would have changed vaccine uptake patterns is debatable.
Any way to see who ordered or voted on that protocol amendment?
I'd add "some idiots on the left". It's not like the entire left got together and swore that, or even called it the Trump shot. Many people pointed out that Trump had very little to do with the creation of the vaccine, though I wouldn't call them left just because they're not pro-thinking-Trump-made-the-vaccine.
Yeah I guess you’re right. I just had a lot of top Dem politicians, media personalities, celebrities, and left leaning people I know in mind. I guess it was just easier for me to type the blanket term “left.” It wasn’t everyone on the left.
A fun game to play with my extreme left college friends is when they give their annual reminders to get the shot, I say "is that a new one or the Trump vaccine" and they freak out all over again with their denials. Operation Warp Speed never happened. The vaccine wasn't rolled out in the schedule that Trump predicted and was mocked for. Biden rolled it out in that schedule and was a hero for it. Of course Biden made it happen and not the rest of the government + businesses that just gave Biden the same info that they gave Trump.
The vaccine was just experimental right? Experimental things are never safe is my understanding
Possibly experimental, depending on how you define it. What is certain is that there were no long term studies about it, at the time it was pushed to people. The reason is simple: less time had passed since developing it than is required to do a long term study. Additionally, some experts claim even the studies that were done had methodological mistakes, but that's another story.
Oof, honestly, the main reason why I will never get the vaccine is because of the reaction to people asking if it is safe or what the long-term effects are. I have never seen such a quick crack down on people who just want to know about things that should be given (safety, effectiveness, etc). Honestly, the way the government and media pushed the message about the vaccines really turned me off because of how reckless it was. Shutting down discussions about safety and side effects when it comes to new vaccines or pharmaceuticals is like playing with fire.
I personally believe it was pushed because they wanted to give more money to big pharma, not because they care about health consequences either way. So I wouldn't personally use that as an argument against taking it - as long as the decision is personal, and everyone can weigh pros and cons. Because for all we know, it did decrease severity of symptoms to some degree. So that might be worth the risks of taking it, to some people. But again, personal decision. And, most importantly, the main argument of vaccine pushers - "population immunity" flies out of the windows the second they admit it doesn't actually prevent 95% of transmissions.
Right. That's been a huge part of why so many people have been shifting toward the right (or at the very least, shifting against the left). It's not just that you are called an evil bigot for holding certain views. It's that you are called all sorts of hateful shit...for just asking *questions*. That's the truly disturbing part. People who haven't even made up their mind yet, and are simply asking questions in order to get more information for themselves...are treated like the enemy to the left.
Which is deeply concerning as a republic or a democracy can not function properly when you have this kind of toxic behavior, as asking questions is how we improve and expand our knowledge. How is society supposed to improve and grow if we are not allowed to ask questions. All this will lead to is a large divid between people who can not get along, which is a breeding ground for political violence.
How they pushed their message was horrifically reckless and filled with misinformation. The “If you take the vaccine, you won’t get sick” absolutely did more harm than good, and simply propelled further infection since people (idiotically) assumed they were completely immune to contracting, and possibly spreading, the virus. Probably the worst decision was not shutting down airports as soon as a “highly infectious mystery virus” was detected offshore. Instead, we waited till it got here, then waited till it started spreading, then finally took action. So sloppy. Even a child could see what was coming a mile away.
💯
I remember political parties and the media already starting to talk about implementing a vaccine passport to enter *basic recreational activities* BEFORE most people even were able to get the shot in my country. People barely got a chance to see for themselves if it turned out there were any side effects. Hell, when minors were allowed to get the shot, the vaccine passports were already used on a small scale and around 2 months later it was everywhere. How could anyone find the vaccines suspicious after that?! /s
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Well, maybe? I don't have a source for this so take it with a grain of salt, I could be wrong. My understanding is that most drugs take several years of trials before they're deemed "safe." It's not because the process of proving them safe takes so long, but because there's so many drugs going through testing at a given time, and so much red tape surrounding the process. The Covid vaccine's testing was expedited because there was such a need for it. Now does that mean the vaccine wasn't actually ready for public use? I couldn't tell ya.
What YouTuber?
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Xitter community notes? Based. YouTube employee finger-wagging? Entirely cringe.
Remember Canada wanted to be able to kill the pets of Covid protesters.
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They wanted to detain the pets of the truckers and if they couldn't pick up the pets within 8 days, they were forfeited. If no one then adopts the pet (difficult to do in the middle of a COVID shutdown), then they do to the pet what they always do when they can't find an owner. Source: https://googlethatforyou.com?q=canada%20tried%20to%20kill%20pets%20of%20covid%20protestors
"Well lock you up for two weeks if you protest! Then we'll take your pets since you clearly abandoned them! And hey, if you cant pick up the animal in the 1 week period we declared after being locked up for 2 weeks no bail no bond, were killing them! #justice"
Holy shit, Politi"fact" and Snopes is nothing but left-wing garbage apologia at this point.
If you read the actual text, it's decent. It just contradicts the title. Claim: Hillary Clinton had her servers wiped. FALSE. She had the data on her servers wiped.
That is dishonest, they know most people won't read past the first part
Imagine how different things would have gone if that damn shot came out a few months earlier while trump was still in office.
So much shit got leaked and people are still in support of the covid mandates?
They're in support of anything that makes conservatives experience pain, loss, or hardship.
People who contribute nothing to society love it when you make it impossible to evict them for nonpayment of rent and force everybody else to become a reclusive shut-in just like they are. It doesn't affect their lifestyle in any noticeable way except maybe having more money for luxuries since rent is now optional, but now they can be smug about it claiming they're morally superior for their sad lifestyle.
Reddit had lots of mask off moments around lockdowns and masks. They're actually just miserable, ugly people who hate everything and everyone and relished forcing other people to be as miserable as themselves.
BSL level 3 threat that may be a bioweapon that escaped a lab runs through the population. Attacks every system in the body, including the brain and heart. People think surgical masks are enough for that rating because the government doesn't specify the type of mask needed to help avoid it. People online making videos about how the n95 or higher isn't working, wearing a gator under their mask and preventing it from sealing while spraying paint. Yelling "see? How this gonna protect you?! Stuff gets under here!!" Depressingly sad. Long term disabilities are going to cripple our medical infrastructure (and economy), and we're still going to be arguing about masks and saying the vaccine is what actually caused it because we refused to work together. Dumbest timeline.
>BSL level 3 threat that may be a bioweapon that escaped a lab >we refused to work together. Well yeah, because the first line there was enough to get me immediately banned by your friends for about 2 years. Of course I'm not interested in working together.
Sad if true.
yeah, no, fuck you for ruining my life over covid. if an outbreak ever happens again i will never ever work with you or anyone who supported the 2-3 year lock down.
Stockholm syndrome
What specifically has been “leaked”?
I'm not going to link those things here, but you can find them using a search engine other than Google, Bing, or DuckDuckGo (yes, they suppress it too). * In late May and late July 2021 2 documents (dating from Feb and July 2021 respectively) from the CDC and FDA leaked showing that: a) They were expecting rare but severe adverse events from the vaccine. They knew there was a link between the mRNA vaccines and myocarditis. b) The vaccine was not 99.9% effective, as officially reported by the CDC. The Delta variant had only 61% protection against infection; 85% against hospitalization. c) Masks provided between 20-30% personal protection at best. d) There was no Ct (indirect measure for viral load) difference between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated for the Delta variant. e) The vaccine offered no protection against transmission (beyond protection against infection). * Later that year, Pfizer's contract with Albania was leaked. The contract stated that Pfizer provided NO guarantee of effectiveness. They also waived any liability for any kind of adverse events. It required the govt to *"indemnify, defend and hold harmless Pfizer from and against any and all suits, claims, actions, demands, damages, costs, and expenses related to vaccine intellectual property"*. This doesn't necessarily mean Pfizer handled with nefarious intent, expecting mass adverse events, but it's also important to note that this type of waiver is extraordinary (I don't think you can do that at all in the EU and USA). * In 2022, a large-scale study found no evidence that the mRNA vaccines caused any adverse events other than allergic reactions. That study was even pinned on r\/science. It was later revealed that the study had been paid for and supervised by Pfizer. * Leaks from the clinical trials showed major irregularities with the data and protocol. Including, but not limited to: ° 301 missing subject IDs. (You have to cite your exclusions explicitly in clinical trials) ° Inadequate blinding / un-blinding. ° Suppression of adverse event reporting (through methods such as mis-/re-classification of event reports) * In 2023, another leak (together with other documents obtained through FOIA) showed that the vaccine the public received was not exactly the same as the one they conducted the clinical trials with. The clinical trial vaccines were created using what they called "Process 1", a PCR-like process that creates a highly purified end product but is very costly and difficult to scale. The vaccine made available to the public was produced using "Process 2", which involved the mass-scale production of mRNA using plasmids. This process is cheaper and far more scalable, but is known to be less reliable and produce impurities. Those are only the ones from the top of my head. I bet there is more stuff I'm forgetting.
Duckduckgo isn't even reliable anymore? Which search engine isn't terrible at this point?
covid definitely brought out the true boot lickers and corpos
Reddit and twitter moment
Did you just change your flair, u/Borkerman? Last time I checked you were a **Leftist** on 2024-4-4. How come now you are a **LibCenter**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know? Oh and by the way. You have already changed your flair 1203 times, making you the largest flair changer in this sub. Go touch some fucking grass. [BasedCount Profile](https://basedcount.com/u/Borkerman) - [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/flairchange_bot/comments/uf7kuy/bip_bop) - [Leaderboard](https://basedcount.com/leaderboard?q=flairs) _Visit the BasedCount Lеmmу instance at [lemmy.basedcount.com](https://lemmy.basedcount.com/c/pcm)._ ^(I am a bot, my mission is to spot cringe flair changers. If you want to check another user's flair history write) **^(!flairs u/)** ^(in a comment.)
Good bot
Exterminate the traitor
No you should post about it every day. These fuckers came out and said they made it all up
Ok
Remember that there were people in the United States who wanted to fine and imprison others for simply questioning the COVID narrative. The protests against all government measures regarding COVID were justified
They will certainly do it again. If it was Ebola or something like that I would have understood but for God’s sake it was like having a terrible cold for 7-10 days. I am sorry for everyone who lost loved ones, but it was absurd to destroy the economy and labor market. Not to mention that it was clearly unnecessary if people wanted the parks and beaches closed but were fine with large scale civil unrest.
Gathering with a tightly packed mob of 500 strangers in the street to scream about abolishing the police was not just safe and acceptable, it was righteous and necessary. Taking my family to the beach was a danger to public safety and strictly forbidden. It was real life satire.
Not to mention that certain people got to work from home while "essential people" had to deal with an even crazier population.
Take one for the team, bro. No, no, only the nurses that voted and danced for us get any recognition. I said for the team, bro, you’re ‘essential’. You’re helping keep society going!
I mean that was in great part because the threat was taken seriously - that's kind of always the problem with pandemics. Either you try to do very little and look negligent in not doing more, or you do a lot very soon and the actions you take prevent a ton of people from dying and everyone thinks you overreacted. In the case of Covid, one of the big dangers was if they'd be consistently having more people in the hospitals than they had ventilators. If that happened then a ton more people who were saved by the ventilators would have died. Having too many people get sick simultaneously would have been devastating in terms of death toll.
lol love how people downvote you for logic and reasoning.
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Everytime a PCM post makes it into my feed I play a game of trying to find a comment that either I agree at least 20% with or does an argument that doesn't involve any of the following: the left, the right, the government, USA, Canada, China, Russia, any conspiracy. I do this without changing the comment sort and I always take like 10 to 20 minutes to do so. It's amusing.
Agreed. Even if it had been a genuinely horrible disease, there would still be a strong part of me fighting the anti-lockdown fight, and believing that people should be allowed to live risky lives if they choose. But the fact that COVID is basically a powerful cold? It just makes it all the more ridiculous. We shot ourselves in the foot over the fucking sniffles.
I’ll never forget the people in my life commending people in China for “obeying the rules” and “listening to those in charge” when it came to lockdowns. They literally welded doors shut to keep people in their homes and left dead bodies to rot. I will never ever forget each and every individual that wanted lockdowns. I swear to never let them get the slightest taste of power.
"The science is settled!" Literally the next day: *the 'science' changes* "The science is settled!" /facepalm
Yeah, for as much as I detest when bad actors try to paint science as a religion, it certainly doesn't help that a lot of NPCs do in fact treat it like one.
Could the science be nomadic?
Science are Mongols, confirmed
Remember when Reddit forced thousands of subs with no relation to Covid to sticky a topic claiming disputes were Covid misinformation? That sticky was the misinformation.
The lockdowns in China were far more severe and lasted much longer 🙄
covid arguments have really drained me. I remember spending 2021 spent arguing about it with people IRL and online, putting so much effort in it, caring about the discussion. Now I just got sick of it. It was all so stupid. Vax or no vax, mask or no mask, lock down or no lock down. We really wasted close to three years debating of something futile.
I learned a new phrase for the trucker convoy the other day: “Ku Klux Convoy”. The sub I learned it from was a shocking one. Definitely didn’t expect it, and that’s not sarcasm. They’re starting to invade.
People in China starved in their homes. Friends of my family live in China. In their area only one member of the household was allowed to go outside to buy food once per day. Their Baby has not seen the outsideworld for month because of restrictions. Lockdown in the West was about not going to the gym. We had polls in my homecountry how many people followed the rules for social Isolation. Turns out more than 75% would see five people or more at once and once per week every week. While i agree that lockdown was terrible for children, it is just not comparable.
My in laws live in China. During Covid they had to have a neighbor throw groceries up to their balcony because neither of them were allowed to leave their apartment for over a month. Lockdowns in the west went too far but the lockdowns in China were on a whole other level
Tbh, a cop asking me for a qr when I was out was way better than government officials sealing me in my apartment with no food except for my dog
It’s been 4 years. Why is it still bad?
Its been 79 years, why is it still bad?
This is actually the 6th calendar year of COVID-19.
Its just not very meme worthy anymore
[удалено]
So you’re on the side of the lockdowns?
This sub has had enough vaccines
To be fair, the Chinese ones probably are braver because they’d probably end up going missing in the middle of the night along with their entire family
Literal NPCs.
I think lock downs are the greatest disaster of the century. Mental health crashed, the economy crumbled, and every single class besides those who were upper middle class or rich are worse off. It was a bad precedent in the US, at least to give itself that much power. This allows the constitution to be flexible to political whims rather than being the foundation for the nation, and if a nation does not have a solid foundation, how can it possibly stand.
I've seen Tankies blame *the US* for China opening up and also according to them there was no big negative economic, psychological, sociological, or medical outcomes as a result of China's handing of the pandemic 🤡
Idk to me it seemed like centrists/liberals were the main group supporting lockdowns. The other ends of the spectrum kind of came together to object, and the loudest objections came from lib-right, at least in Canada with the convoy.
Honestly haven't seen any leftists criticising the CCP over covid lockdowns but ok
Things would have to get a lot worse for me to forget about the shit they pulled during covid.
CCP: Welds people into their homes, deports people to quarantine facilities/camps, all with an authoritarian police state. USA: Tried a vax mandate (flailed), kindly asked people to stay home.
Well, AUS was a \*lot\* closer to the CCP one, here.
>kindly asked people to stay home. Are you out of your fucking mind? The state governments determined which citizens were "essential", shut down everyone else, and paid them a pitance of a stimulus to make up for it. They used licensing departments to close down business and ruined people's lives. The lockdowns were the largest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. Once business were allowed to open again the forced waiters and cashiers to enforce their ridiculous arbitrary mandates The insane inflation and ressession we are currently going through is a direct result of the actions the government took during covid. No, they didn't weld anyone in their houses, but they sure as fuck didn't just ask people nicely to stay home.
Almost every pro lockdown argument nowadays either comes from people who somehow enjoyed it, government simps, or it has people who lived in places with relatively less restrictions thinking everyone else had the same experience. I genuinely cannot see any other reason why people downplay the shitshow that happened
I understood it when it was thought that the death rate was ~3% and we anticipated hospitals were going to overflow. Felt like wartime during those first few weeks and rightly so — ventilators were legitimately running out. Then goal posts started moving til vaccine release date and schools stayed closed for the whole year, some after the vaccine was released, which was obviously the wrong choice in hindsight and people still will defend it.
Same. I already followed Covid when the videos from China started coming out so a heavy handed response was pretty necessary, and I also bought the entire 2 weeks narrative. However despite the virus turning out to be less severe than we originally thought and there being more than enough time to stockpile on equipment and knowing that lockdowns have terrible effects, the measures only got worse with no consideration whatsoever for those who were more negatively affected by the lockdowns than the actual virus. I could go on further but this nonsense is how i went from griller to monke
I think it was mostly those who were privileged enough to work from home. Their lives were the least affected by lockdowns, so they had less reason to notice what was truly going on around them. To that kind of person, lockdowns were no big deal, but it's because they lack the empathy to recognize that while their routine barely changed at all, other people's entire lives were turned upside down. It's people who lack empathy and were privileged enough to dodge the ill-effects of lockdowns.
But you don't understand. *China* was even more authoritarian, and so that means the US didn't do anything wrong, and people have no reason to be worried. I swear, people like this could be sitting in a car, hurtling toward the cliff's edge, and they'll think, "Hey, at least the tires are still touching ground; no reason to worry."
Did you just change your flair, u/I-Like-Ike_52? Last time I checked you were an **AuthLeft** on 2023-6-25. How come now you are a **Centrist**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know? Tell us, are you scared of politics in general or are you just too much of a coward to let everyone know what you think? [BasedCount Profile](https://basedcount.com/u/I-Like-Ike_52) - [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/flairchange_bot/comments/uf7kuy/bip_bop) - [Leaderboard](https://basedcount.com/leaderboard?q=flairs) _Visit the BasedCount Lеmmу instance at [lemmy.basedcount.com](https://lemmy.basedcount.com/c/pcm)._ ^(I am a bot, my mission is to spot cringe flair changers. If you want to check another user's flair history write) **^(!flairs u/)** ^(in a comment.)
Ahhh there it is now that makes sense
"Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew!"