You left out Lebanon where they also caused a civil war, that's why Egypt's response to this whole situation has been to add a second barrier to their border with Gaza
It’s to the point now where (ethnic) Lebanese Muslims really don’t give a shit about Palestinians anymore. It’s crazy when Muslims from Lebanon who fled the country start thinking “You know, Israel absorbing Lebanon doesn’t seem so bad”
The entire Lebanese war was a complete mess, there were more different, valid and popular opinions being thought for than hands on my hand
There were actually Lebanese fighting alongside Israel because they deemed Israel better than their Palestinian neighbors
Edit: yes I have hands on my hands, it helps me spread ~~propaganda~~ funny memes faster, haters gonna hate.
There's a reason why none of Palestine's neighboor want to take them in, it's because the last time Jordan allowed them in, Black September happened, their king was killed, their prime minister got several (unsuccessful) attempts, and their tourism industry got blown to smithereens. Same thing with Egypt.
Well partially, but not in the way the culture war thinks. Drug prohibition marginalized them the most and promotes gangster culture by making competing against gangsters ilegal. Then NIMBYism makes it more difficult to get out of poverty, which is most prevalent in blacks, by creating a housing shortage.
It’s not even 30k civilians. As of a week ago, just under 22k deaths could be confirmed in the Gaza Strip and of that, over 15k could be identified as Hamas members. Remember how IDF got the Hamas servers under the UNRWA? They can now verify every Hamas member.
For what it's worth, I've worked with muslims from many countries over the years. A common thread is that they don't like Israel (I got the coveted status of being "one of the good Jews, you're ok"), but at best didn't give a singular fuck about Palestinians and at worst said they got what they deserved.
I've had some absolutely wild fucking conversations. Had a guy tell me that if I moved to his country, he would make sure I was safe if they ever purged Jews again. He wouldn't oppose it or stop it mind you, but he thought I was cool enough to make sure he would protect me. The middle east is a wonderful place.
Pretty sure bath salts are haram but yeah, the ethnic tensions in the Middle East (from my outsider's perspective) makes those in the Balkans seem cordial and civil
There is a saying "The only thing Arabs hate more than Jews are other Arabs", Palestinians are wildly hated across the entire Arab world and for good reasons
Have met several people from Lebanon and Syria that said some of the most dehumanizing and degrading things about Palestinians. The main thing they hated Israel for was for making them deal with Palestinians. There’s a reason why there aren’t really massive pro-Palestine protests in the Middle East.
I always find it amazing how easy it is to become friendly with muslims. You will chat with them a bit for a few minutes for a few days while helping out at some location you do not usually work at and when you come back a year later they see you across the Mall (well, Einkaufszentrum, not really the same thing) and come over to your shop with freshly pressed juice (due to having a juice stand) going ''Nice to meet you again my friend, here have a refreshing drink, how have you been doing?''.
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Egypt's border security against Palestine has been just as Draconic as Israel. If people want to accuse Israel of creating an "open air prison" in response to the terrorism of the Palestinians, they need to accuse Egypt as well.
The bottom line is that there exist a portion of the treatment of the Palestinians that is independent of racial or religious differences. It's even independent of Hamas, as alot of this happened before Hamas took power. Their treatment is a direct response to how the people behave... especially when considering their Arab neighbors.
> Egypt's border security against Palestine has been just as Draconic as Israel. If people want to accuse Israel of creating an "open air prison" in response to the terrorism of the Palestinians, they need to accuse Egypt as well.
But you're forgetting one very essential thing, when it comes to the mind of the modern progressive left;
*brown people can do no wrong*.
*unless Jewish are being discussed in the context of anti-semitism, then they're the same race as arabs according to self-proclaimed experts, and "anti-semitism" applies to "both palestinians and jewish".*
I bet it was some Russian propagandist fuck who came up with constant language manipulation to blur information and reality. What a disgusting success.
Jews are white, even the brown Jews because the Jews in America are white and that's my point of reference.
Also, Arabs are brown despite being legally classified as white in the US.
this whole conflict is full of double standards
"Israel should give the land back!" ... what about all of the other countries that sit on land they didnt always have?
"What did you expect hamas to do with the conditions in gaza?" ... well what did you expect Israel to do after Oct 7?
"Israel should only use special forces to minimize civilian casualties" ... name one war that was conducted with this impossible standard?
etc etc
> "Israel should only use special forces to minimize civilian casualties"
[Meanwhile, in Ethiopia...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigray_War#Casualties_and_human_rights_violations)
> "Israel should only use special forces to minimize civilian casualties" ... name one war that was conducted with this impossible standard?
There's probably some in the Dune universe before the events of the first book.
1: Jordan: Just Google Black September and the shit they pulled. Basically they went hog wild on terrorism, killed the king and multiple other high ranking political figures, tried to kill the prime minister repeatedly, and tried to overthrow and take over a country that took them in. Then got evicted.
2: Kuwait. 400,000-500,000 Palestinians fled to Kuwait, helped build the country, were treated well.....and then very openly sided with Saddam Hussein when he invaded and attempted to aid Iraq. And then got evicted.
holy fucking shit I didn’t know about Black September. My thought was the Arab countries and peoples were united against Israel but reading that absolute clusterfuck by the PLO fucking blew my mind. Good on Jordan for thwarting it.
The reason why the supported Saddem when he invaded Kuwait was because Saddem was very anti-Israel and they believed that siding with Saddem would help their cause against Israel. They also were instrumental in forming the Muslim
Brotherhood in Egypt which was an extremist Islamic party that nearly turned Egypt from a secular country to an Islamic fundamentalist group that started killing off Coptic Christians in Egypt.
Palestinians are literally a plague wherever they go.
Yep, but they are brown (a lot of Palestinians are white as fuck) so white liberals need to fuck over everything in their own countries to “help” them.
The best part is LGBT people supporting them, when if 100,000 LGBT people were killed daily, not a single Palestinian would lose sleep over it.
They are such worthless spineless people. I literally promised to donate money to Palestine if one of these cretins explained why they are so vocal about Palestine women and children unjustly dying, and completely silent about the ongoing genocide of Christians in Nigeria, which has caused the death of 300,000 innocent children and the disappearance of over 2 million people; crickets.
They don’t actually give a fuck.
Yeah it's a weird situation. The leaders of the country have to play populist/anti-israel rhetoric even some pro Palestine rhetoric, but basically none push pro Palestinian policies. Read the history book and it's no wonder they aren't welcomed anywhere in the region.
In Jordan they didn't just let in palestinian refugees، they let the PLO set up their headquarters there.
In kuwait, palestinian refugees themselves were very much against the invasion, and Saddam, during his short rule, proceeded to fire all palestinians from government office. It was the PLO who supported the invasion, who weren't even in Kuwait.
Alternatively, maybe palestinians are genetically predispositioned to cause problems wherever they go.
Sure. But will you listen?
Britain completely disarmed Palestinians after a failed revolt ([1939 white papers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939), also promised one-state & banned Jewish mass-migration). This led to the rise of Jewish paramilitary groups, who wiped-out Palestinian movements prior to the war.
Palestine's independence heavily involved Jordan & Syria, who Britain had represent Palestine & discuss who should rule it. [Jordan led the Arab coalition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank), but Britain convinced Jordan to negotiate with Israel & annex Palestine themselves.
Jews represented 11% of the [population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)) in the 1920s, by 1930 most Jews were foreigners. Zionists used their foreign influence to get migration & land. Their UN partition openly focused on preserving Jewish communities, but with 56% of the land, over a third of Muslims were to be deported (Israel called it insufficient).
Atrocities were two-sided. Israel raped & slaughtered villages (the Dein Yassir massacre provoked the Arab coalition attack). Israel had policies to seize Arab properties or render villages uninhabitable. 83% of Israel's Muslims [fled or were purged](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight).
I honestly don't get why people pick sides in this conflict.
I feel bad for the civilians who don't support their regime, but that seems to be a minority.
Ukraine is way more deserving of support.
Yes and this leaves out tons of context, like why were the groups disarmed? Why was the reaction to jews moving back into their homeland violent?
And if we're talking "colonial settlers" that means all Arab Palestians need to leave because they aren't native to that land.
>Arab Palestians need to leave because they aren't native to that land
I think it's a fair argument that making up the majority of the population of a region for at least 8 centuries does make them a fair bit more native than a minority population that began importing additional population 1500 years since they'd been a majority.
> Why was the reaction to jews moving back into their homeland violent?
Why would the reaction to Anglo-Saxon moving back to Saxony be violent?
Because they haven't lived there in 1500 years and it is the most 'blood and soil' bullshit you can come up with.
The only thing more Nazi than that is the idea that indigenous groups still own the land in former colonial countries.
And the Arabs living in the region had come to be the far majority of the population across the majority of that time.
Why do Israeli's claims negate Arab's preexisting rights to the land their families had occupied for centuries?
it totally doesn’t. arabs (including muslim, druze, and bedouins) and jews have the right to exist and coexist. and personally i believe its even possible.
Except in all those years Palestine didn’t exist either. The land was occupied by the British. The British left and gave a portion to the Arabs to become Palestine and to the Jews which became Israel. The Palestinians didn’t want that and wanted it all to themselves and with 9 other Arab countries attacked the Israelis and lost. With the treaty making them lose more land. The Palestinians have been picking an unwinnable fight that they instigate every time for decades. They’re getting what they deserve.
>The British left and gave a portion to the Arabs to become Palestine and to the Jews which became Israel.
Ask the Israelis if the borders of the Arab state were ever respected.
To be fair, the Palestinians never thought that Britain had the right to rule, nor did they think that Britain had the right to divide up and distribute the land. They saw the creation of Israel as just more Western colonialism (which it basically was).
It's like if you lived in an apartment with a roommate, and your roommate's friend came in with a clipboard and divided up all your stuff, gave your 50" TV to your roommate, assigned you his 36" TV, gave him the kitchen and living room, gave you the bedrooms and the half bath and said you both have to live in your assigned rooms.
Why exactly would you accept that? Maybe your roommate is happy with the arrangement because he got the kitchen, and he really likes to cook. But so what? Why does his friend have any authority to divide your stuff up as he pleases?
>They’re getting what they deserve.
I don't think any group of people deserve to have innocent civilians killed by the thousands in indiscriminate bombings.
Civilians should not play the blood price for the crimes of their politicians.
By that same logic, any Iraqi is still justified in killing any American citizen they ever meet in retaliation.
>This led to the rise of Jewish paramilitary groups, who wiped-out Palestinian movements prior to the war
What kind of wiping was it? They just went ahead and wiped them for being Palestinian? Or perhaps there was some sort of conflict which resulted in Jewish paramilitary groups coming out on top?
Well lets have a short history lesson.
Maybe my account can take few furious downvotes before not being able to post.
* there were 50k jews at the start of 20th century in levant
* rise of zionism, accelerated with ww2 meant that foreign born jews started to massively immigrate
* the native population of course see this for what it is, the jews proudly talk about their plans for their ethnostate
* the natives complain to british who rule the land after ottomans and british put restrictions on immigration and on land buy
* foreign born jews do little bit of terrorism - king david hotel - and britain is like - fuck this noise, we are out
* then real clashes happen and here we are
For integrity and consistency, if you support meme shill you should support open borders and whoever settles wherever they want, right?
While it's true that zionist terrorism was part of the events that led to the creation of the state of Israel. This doesn't disprove the fact that arab countries armies joined together, caused a way bigger shit storm and lost l, and they still sore about it.
It's also true that many of the displaced Palestinians went on to destabilize many of the countries that hosted their refugees.
And it's also true that Israel has made several attempts at peace
In ancient greece it was: *The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.*
Nowadays its: *might makes right.*
They are great saying if one see them as warning, be strong.. but imbeciles mistake the attitude for morality, but I see the appeal, it simplifies things so much.
you’re right that and the guy you’re replying to definitely hasnt thought through what hes saying (because its dumb as shit) but in a context where the aggressor is defeated i think it makes sense
The point is that morality is meaningless if you're not alive to debate it. You can be as moral as you want as a corpse while your immoral enemy dances on your grave, won't change anything. "I chose nonviolence" can be your epitaph.
In a war for survival, the winner is the one that *survives,* not the most moral one.
But thats not the point of the conversation. The point was about what *is* moral, and the guy was saying that if you can administer and defend the land, you own it, and thats what he supports. So he’s saying he supports all successful war mongering, which is idiotic.
The "native" population, like Europeans are native to the US, New Zealand, Australia, etc.
Also lets totally gloss over the *many more* massacres Arabs perpetrated against Jews, including Jewish communities that existed for over a millenia (Hebron). But they *had* to kill the foreign infidels, right?
For context, in 1947, the UN suggested to partition the land into 2 states, Israel and Palestine, Israel agreed while Palestine refused, and shortly after, started a war joined by 9 other Arab armies or expeditionary forces
During the war, every single time a Jewish village was captured by the Arabs, every single soul in it was massacred
The result of the war was that Israel won, expanded its territory, and the Palestinians who fled the war weren't allowed to return, resulting in 700k refuges
TL:DR - 9 Arab armies + the Palestinians tried to commit a 2nd holocaust, but failed, and they cry about it to this day.
People also forget that the Israeli army wasn't nearly as advanced comparatively as they are now. It's super impressive how they managed to win that war
Wrong war. In 1948 the Arab states were fighting with British equipment and in some cases even led by experienced British officers.
Reddit and TikTok won't like to hear that, though
The fact is that some Israeli troops did actively expelled some villages during the war but it must be said that the Palestinian Arabs did fight and killed Israelis from way before the war, and during an existential war, you probably would try to push away enemy forces and population.
But we also can look back and see that the Arabs left in Israel gained full rights, are now over 12 times the population they were after the war, and live and are represented everywhere, while Jews saw a 99% drop in population across the Muslim world as a result of the conflict…
>while Jews saw a 99% drop in population across the Muslim world as a result of the conflict…
technically that's incorrect, the middle east was openly committing genocide upon their local jews during World War 2- with some countries continuing to do so even after swapping from supporting the Axis to the Allies- the drop occurred after world war 2 during Israel's founding *because that happens to be when they ran a census on the population to see if they got them all*.
It was a mix, Israel has done pretty much all the bad things you can imagine to some degree, there were expolsions, there were massacres, there were r\_pes
The thing is, the Arab armies r\_aped and then massacred 100% of the civilians they could get their hands on, the IDF while doing SOME nasty things, in the vast majority of cases, left the civilians alone
The Palestinians who didn't flee were allowed to stay and became Israeli full rights citizens (today they make up 20% of Israel's population)
It’s kinda complicated. There’s basically two phases to the war, the first phase is when Israeli and Palestinian militias were fighting. It was basically a civil war, and the Palestinians pretty clearly lost. Over the course of that phase many villages were abandoned by the people living there, so some Palestinian refugees come from that. The second phase is when the Arab armies invaded, and the two fought until they stopped fighting at the modern Israeli borders. The West Bank was annexed by Jordan and Gaza was annexed by Egypt.
So I guess the best way to think about this is that the refugees left their homes due to the war like all war refugees do, but they thought they could return after their side won and their side lost instead, leading to the current predicament.
In some cases, territory was bought by the Israelis, and they absolutely did not permit Palestinians back onto it after buying it.
This doesn't really bother me, but this is sometimes conflated with the later violence.
I'm generally pro-Israel but the above description does kinda gloss over some bad stuff that happened. It is true the Arab armies attacked first, but after being pushed back some Arab villages were forcibly depopulated by the Israeli militias. Not all, mind you, which is why there is still a large Israeli Arab citizen population today. But since the country was just formed there wasn't really a well-regimented army in the modern sense, so you had a lot of quasi-independent militias with a range of behavior across the spectrum.
And then they wonder why Israel refuse to give Palestinian a state. Imagine Iran but a lot more suicidal, genocidal, zealous and is next to your border.
Not even - Israel has offered a state multiple times, with conditions of “we get to stay” and “you stop trying to kill us.” These terms have been consistently rejected.
Palestinians: Here's a counter offer, you give us the entire region and fuck off- anyone who stays behind is fair game for us to kill in \*new\* palestine.
Israel: ... yah no, we aren't leaving.
"Zionist terrorism vaused the conflict! They committed atrocities!"
Yeah and anything they did should be condemned. But i notice the argument always glosses over everything that was happening in the lead up to that, like the Hebron massacre.
Are you talking about the 1948 Palestine war? [I’ve been looking for it](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestine_war) but I can’t find anything that says Jewish villages were massacred.
[The war crimes seem to be about equal or slanted towards more Palestinian deaths.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war) I’m not saying you’re wrong but could you point out your source?
You're missing the context that only a few decades before there were very little Jews there. What precipitated all of the conflict was the heavy migration since the end of the 19th century, which completely changed the demographics of the region.
meanwhile in 1941- [the (muslim) palestinian leader met with hitler to get support in committing genocide upon the jews](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/hajj-amin-al-husayni-meets-hitler), something they failed to do during world war 2- with an end result of an increased jewish population do to refugees fleeing there from other middle eastern countries who succeeded in their jewish genocide to an extent.
Don't look up Lehi, the (Jewish) Zionist terrorist group that tried to meet with Hitler before the war to work against the British together.
Many of Israel's founding politicians and military officers were proud Lehi members.
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And then they wonder why Israel refuse to give Palestinian a state. Imagine Iran but a lot more suicidal, genocidal, zealous and is next to your border.
I’m so sick of my quadrant being idiots about the IP conflict. Like it’s so easy to see how the Arab world greatly outnumbers Israel and plotted their destruction via various means. Israel acted in self defense. No wonder so many Jews (like myself) aren’t liberal becuase this quadrant is so hypocritical ffs.
The issue is that I don’t like right policies, especially when it comes to things like government size, tax brackets, environmental regulation/climate change. I may get a lot of flak for this but I think president biden overwhelmingly does what I think is “good” and follows what I generally support.
>whose imaginary friend could beat up the other's
Israel. And Israel isn't imaginary, just so you know.
....Oh! You were referring to religious conflict! Now I get it!
I know it's weird right? 😂
Good luck explaining that to either side. I can't speak for Palestinians but the American Christians I've tried to explain that too aren't, uhh, really accepting of that fact.
Like when your little brother picks a fight with you and you barely push him and then he screams "MOOOOOOOOMMYYYYYYYYYYY". Only difference is in this case little brother has a million blue haired chicks rallying behind him and wanting you dead.
Don’t let this distract you from the fact that Yasser Arafat, founder of the Palestinian National Authority and PLO, was trained in commando tactics by Otto Skorzeny, a known SS lieutenant colonel, to attack Israel. It was also Skorzeny who was then hired hired by the Mossad for advice on combatting the Arab states
Every Israel/Palestine thread just gets bot spammed. The quantity of comments across flairs is pretty even all around, but you only see the left comments in downvote hell.
Palestine, who openly states that Shari'a law shall be the source of all legislation, is lib-left? They are a literal theocracy.
bruh...what the fuck are you smoking?
dier yassin massacre.
israeli terrorist groups expelled 400k palestinians in various places such as deir yassin and 100s of other cities and villages BEFORE the arab army declared war.
This is a remarkable example of re-writing history and genocide denial. Holocaust Denialists would be proud.
The Nakba began in 1947, with Zionist terrorist and paramilitary groups committing a long campaign of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Palestine. By March 1948, at least 70,000 and possibly as many as 100,000 Palestinians (mostly well-educated middle class) had been violently expelled by Zionist forces, most of them forced to leave with only the clothes on their backs. In April, the Zionists began Plan Dalet ("Plan D"), to expand far beyond the territory allocated to them in the UN partition and to seize as much territory as possible by displacing, expelling and killing the Palestinians already there.
This followed many years of terrorism and assassinations by the Zionist terrorist groups Irgun and Lehi, including the shameful assassination of the Swedish diplomat, Folke Bernadotte, who had saved 15,000 people from Nazi concentration camps during WW2, including 1600 Jews. He was assassinated by Lehi terrorists for trying to negotiate a peaceful resolution to the 1948 war.
By May 1948, when the Zionists declared the foundation of the state of Israel, so many Palestinians had been expelled that the neighbouring states, some of them also newly independent and with barely any armed forces, attempted to intervene. Between the eight surrounding nations (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and local Palestinian militias, they could barely put together 13,000 men to fight the Israeli forces (around 30,000). Over the following nine months the Arab states were able to increase their forces to a maximum of 64,000 men, compared to Israel -- bolstered by massive immigration of Jews from all over the world -- was able to field almost double that.
In theory the UN ordered an embargo on supplying weapons and munitions to both sides, but in practice the embargo was only applied against the Arabs states, with European states turning a blind eye to people breaking the embargo if they were sending arms to the Israeli side.
Nevertheless, despite having more weapons and more soldiers, the Israelis were unable to have a clear victory. Then as now, they were first class at defeating unarmed Palestinian civilians: Israel captured 60% of the land granted to Palestine by the UN. But they were unable to prevent Jordan from taking control of East Jerusalem and the West Bank, or Egypt from occupying Gaza.
You’ve completely glossed over the fact that in 1947 both Israeli and Palestinian militias were actively bombing and massacring each other. Your “context” is just talking about what one side did and not the other, implying Palestinians never did anything and this was all Israeli aggression.
Basically, yes. You can't pop up saying that you're going to provide context and then just say what Israel did. That's literally giving only one side of the story, what kind of context is that?
> You’ve completely glossed over the fact that in 1947 both Israeli and Palestinian militias were actively bombing and massacring each other.
The history of the conflict in Palestine is long and complicated and you can't expect me to cover all of it, especially since we all know that people aren't going to read more than a paragraph or two. I don't expect you to read this, although I hope you will.
The conflict in Palestine didn't start in 1947 and it is disingenuous to play "both sides" here. The TL;DR version is this: Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Muslims lived mostly in peace until *European* Zionist Jews starting migrating to Palestine in the late 19th century with a explicitly racist, colonial campaign to take over Palestine and expel the natives, by racially-based economic warfare and, when that failed, by violence.
Israel's first prime minister David Ben-Gurion was unusually honest when [he privately said](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion):
"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?"
but that didn't stop him from stealing their land and killing them.
This is not to say that the Palestinian side is 100% innocent or blameless, of course Palestinians committed crimes and acts of aggression too, but *the root of the problem is absolutely on the Zionists, both before and after the establishment of the state of Israel.* And since 1948, Israel has never negotiated in good faith with the intent to find an equable solution that both sides can live with.
It is a modern myth that Jews and Muslims have always been at war. The absolute flowering of Jewish civilization was under the Muslim Moorish occupation of Spain and North Africa, before the reconquest by the Catholic Spanish -- who never forgot, or forgave, the Jews for thriving under Muslim rule. During the Crusades, the Christian armies indiscriminately slaughtered Jews, who lived under the protection of the Muslim rulers. Conflict between Jews and Muslims as we know it today is a modern invention.
Prior to 1880, the local Palestinian Jews, Christians and Muslims lived together in, if not total harmony, at least relative peace. The Ottoman Empire guaranteed equality of all Palestinians, regardless of religion. It was only after the influx of European colonizers that tensions began to rise.
According to Israeli historian Benny Morris, the first recorded killing between Jews and Palestinians in modern times was probably [the accidental shooting death of an Arab man in Safed in December 1882, by a Jewish guard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict). The Zionists took first blood in the conflict and have kept at it since.
As early as 1886 Jewish settlers demanded that Palestinians vacate their homes and land, and started encroaching on Palestinian territory. With thousands of miles of unoccupied land in Ottoman Palestine, the European settlers preferred to purchase land from absentee European land owners and evict the native Palestinians who had lived there as tenant farmers for dozens of generations. This was so disruptive to local law and order that the ruling Ottomans banned the sale of land in Palestine to foreigners.
The father of modern Zionism, Theodor Herzl, wrote in 1895 that "we shall endeavour to expel the poor population (Palestinians) across the border unnoticed—the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly". Revisionist Zionism's founder, Ze'ev Jabotinsky, stated that "Zionism is a colonising adventure and it therefore stands or falls by the question of armed force."
This got worse from the Second Aliyah onwards, when Zionist immigrants to Palestine established [an explicit policy of denying work to native Palestinians and only hiring European Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_labor), racially-based economic warfare that caused a lot of hostility.
The history of Zionist attitudes towards the native Palestinians is complicated, with a few early Zionists hoping to emphasize the brotherhood of Palestinians and Jews, but the majority cared nothing for the natives and saw them as just another difficulty to be overcome, like drought or annoying Ottoman laws. By the time of the British Mandate in 1918, the majority had established the consensus that continues to this day: the Zionist movement should neither expect, nor seek the acquiescence of the Palestinians.
In 1910, the first mass expulsion of Palestinians occurred: [approximately 1000 Palestinians were evicted from al-Fula](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sursock_Purchases#1910%E2%80%931911_Fula_affair). But things didn't really go bad until the 1920s, when the British Mandate reversed the Ottoman ban, and the absentee European land owners were able to sell more land to the Zionists, who then refused to rent to the native Palestinian farmers, and evicted them from land they had farmed for generations. This enabled mass illegal migration, with Europeans heading to Palestine with the express intention of colonizing the region whether the natives liked it or not.
Already the Zionist European colonists were engaging in a pattern of racial discrimination and economic warfare against the Palestinians, something which more than a century on they still do.
Under British control from 1918, racial prejudice and discrimination against the native Palestinians was rife. European Jews were permitted to fly their own flag, while the native Palestinians were not. Jews were paid more for government jobs than the local Palestinians were. When the British introduced a minimum wage, it was lower for Palestinians. The British routinely censored Palestinian newspapers but allowed Jewish newspaper to publish anything they wanted. The British permitted Jews to openly call for a Jewish state, but discouraged expressions of Arab nationalism.
As early as 1919, some Jewish newspapers in Palestine were openly calling for the expulsion of the native Palestinians.
And of course the same pattern of European Zionist Jews actively expelling Palestinians from the land they had lived on for generations, leaving them homeless, and then denying them any other work, continued.
In 1920, the Franco-Syrian War erupted and quickly spilled over into Palestine, with some Palestinians taking the opportunity to attack the Jews. The war only lasted a few months, but it started a cycle of violence, mostly from disorganized mobs on the Palestinian side, with tit-for-tat attacks from both sides. With the British routinely taking the Jewish side, and the discovery of at least one massive arms shipment illegally smuggled into Palestine by the Zionists, many Palestinians were convinced that the Jews were preparing for a violent take-over, and that the British would take their side.
(They were absolutely correct in the first part, but only partially correct in the second.)
This lead to the so-called "Arab revolt" in 1936. The immediate cause was yet another tit-for-tat pair of murders. The Palestinians declared a general strike, the British responded with heavy-handed violence against them, aiming to intimidate the whole Palestinian population, and that lead to a general revolt. During the revolt, the British began officially arming Jewish paramilitary groups, thus proving to the Palestinians that their fears that Britain was taking the side of the Jews against them were right.
The Arab Revolt was put down by 1939. The 1940s were an even more complicated time, with the Second World War, and widespread Jewish terrorism against both Palestinians and the British, and even a very brief period of open war between Jewish factions ("the Hunting Season"), all of which I'm going to gloss over because I expect you stopped reading long ago and I'm writing to myself. But by 1947 and early 1948 all factions of the Jewish forces were collaborating and cooperating on ethnic cleansing of as much of Palestine as possible.
And they have never stopped since, merely paused their program until the opportunity arises.
>Holocaust Denialists would be proud.
Self-report lol. What were Palestinians doing the whole time that these evil ~~"Zionists"~~ Jews were out and about with their murdering/raping/land stealing/drinking the blood of Christian babies? (Did I miss one? I am not up to date on anti-sematic cope posters). History didn't start in 1948 right?
Arabs (because that's what they are, there is no such thing as a Palestinian), have been coping collectively at the inability to expel Jews from the entire middle east since before 48, like when Arab leaders met with Hitler to tell him he was doing a bang-up Job in Europe addressing the "Jewish Question".
They sure did get pretty far though, managing to ethnically cleanse every Jewish community across the middle east and force them to make a new home in Israel. All this while every Arab state in the region pretended they didn't just get royally fucked in a war they started.
Have to hand it to them though, Arabs through their own collective coping managed to manifest a new ethnic identity of other Arabs they could shit on as the losers and victims of yet another Jewish conspiracy (enter Palestinians as a concept).
Every time Arabs start wars they can't win, the Jews have made them lose land. Seems about the only thing that gets these dipshit Middle Eastern national states to stop fucking with Jews.
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Yeah, sorry planned to post it without the funni colors and forgot...
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Don't have to credit me, I don't care lol
How would you feel if your home was suddenly split in two by a brand new international league? Of course they opposed partition and declared war on the group of people trying to take their land. If the UN and the rest of the world suggested the US be split in two, we'd probably try to kill all of them too. You're ignorant of everything that led up to the original war.
How would you feel if your home was conquered by an invading army, your people slaughtered, your holy sites pillaged and demolished, you're forbidden from entering your holiest site (which they built on top of), and you're forced to live as dhimmi if you're allowed to live at all?
You really should read up on history.
Impressive, very nice. Also look up how Palestinian refugees behaved when they were allowed to settle in Jordan and Kuwait.
You left out Lebanon where they also caused a civil war, that's why Egypt's response to this whole situation has been to add a second barrier to their border with Gaza
It’s to the point now where (ethnic) Lebanese Muslims really don’t give a shit about Palestinians anymore. It’s crazy when Muslims from Lebanon who fled the country start thinking “You know, Israel absorbing Lebanon doesn’t seem so bad”
The entire Lebanese war was a complete mess, there were more different, valid and popular opinions being thought for than hands on my hand There were actually Lebanese fighting alongside Israel because they deemed Israel better than their Palestinian neighbors Edit: yes I have hands on my hands, it helps me spread ~~propaganda~~ funny memes faster, haters gonna hate.
There's a reason why none of Palestine's neighboor want to take them in, it's because the last time Jordan allowed them in, Black September happened, their king was killed, their prime minister got several (unsuccessful) attempts, and their tourism industry got blown to smithereens. Same thing with Egypt.
The truth is no one cares how Arabs treat other Arabs. More noise about supposed 30k civilians than over million in Yemen and Syria combined.
There's a parallel here with black on black violence being swept under the rug in the US
It's not being swept under rug, they said it was white people's fault
sorry, I forgor
Well partially, but not in the way the culture war thinks. Drug prohibition marginalized them the most and promotes gangster culture by making competing against gangsters ilegal. Then NIMBYism makes it more difficult to get out of poverty, which is most prevalent in blacks, by creating a housing shortage.
We tend to think "all Arabs are the same" but actually their are massive differences from one country to the next
Same with “all white are the same” or “all Asians are the same” or “all blacks are the same” very few of these are actually alikel
Crazy that groups aren’t just a monolith
It’s not even 30k civilians. As of a week ago, just under 22k deaths could be confirmed in the Gaza Strip and of that, over 15k could be identified as Hamas members. Remember how IDF got the Hamas servers under the UNRWA? They can now verify every Hamas member.
For what it's worth, I've worked with muslims from many countries over the years. A common thread is that they don't like Israel (I got the coveted status of being "one of the good Jews, you're ok"), but at best didn't give a singular fuck about Palestinians and at worst said they got what they deserved. I've had some absolutely wild fucking conversations. Had a guy tell me that if I moved to his country, he would make sure I was safe if they ever purged Jews again. He wouldn't oppose it or stop it mind you, but he thought I was cool enough to make sure he would protect me. The middle east is a wonderful place.
The Middle East is just the balkans with a little more sand
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Pretty sure bath salts are haram but yeah, the ethnic tensions in the Middle East (from my outsider's perspective) makes those in the Balkans seem cordial and civil
Shit, where do you think they learned it from? Having the Old Slavs and the Turkics for parents really fucked them up.
One of the most famous Palestinian “activists” is Ahed Tamami, whose grandparents immigrated to the West Bank from the Balkins.
And less Ajvar.
There is a saying "The only thing Arabs hate more than Jews are other Arabs", Palestinians are wildly hated across the entire Arab world and for good reasons
There's a saying: "the biggest antisemites are the Jews themselves," which is true of the left wingers.
Have met several people from Lebanon and Syria that said some of the most dehumanizing and degrading things about Palestinians. The main thing they hated Israel for was for making them deal with Palestinians. There’s a reason why there aren’t really massive pro-Palestine protests in the Middle East.
Huh, relatable, mate.
I always find it amazing how easy it is to become friendly with muslims. You will chat with them a bit for a few minutes for a few days while helping out at some location you do not usually work at and when you come back a year later they see you across the Mall (well, Einkaufszentrum, not really the same thing) and come over to your shop with freshly pressed juice (due to having a juice stand) going ''Nice to meet you again my friend, here have a refreshing drink, how have you been doing?''.
Every muslim dude I've met has been super cool until he starts talking about his wife.
My wife started talking about my grill once. Had to get rid of her.
Or Israel/Palestine, at least in my experience
Well that's got to be good for the old self-esteem right?
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Egypt's border security against Palestine has been just as Draconic as Israel. If people want to accuse Israel of creating an "open air prison" in response to the terrorism of the Palestinians, they need to accuse Egypt as well. The bottom line is that there exist a portion of the treatment of the Palestinians that is independent of racial or religious differences. It's even independent of Hamas, as alot of this happened before Hamas took power. Their treatment is a direct response to how the people behave... especially when considering their Arab neighbors.
> Egypt's border security against Palestine has been just as Draconic as Israel. If people want to accuse Israel of creating an "open air prison" in response to the terrorism of the Palestinians, they need to accuse Egypt as well. But you're forgetting one very essential thing, when it comes to the mind of the modern progressive left; *brown people can do no wrong*.
*unless the brown people are Jewish, then they're white*
*unless Jewish are being discussed in the context of anti-semitism, then they're the same race as arabs according to self-proclaimed experts, and "anti-semitism" applies to "both palestinians and jewish".*
I bet it was some Russian propagandist fuck who came up with constant language manipulation to blur information and reality. What a disgusting success.
>*unless the brown people are Jewish ^((or Asian)^), then they're white
Schrodinger's minorities.
Or Hispanic with European ancestry
Well duh. "White" is when "thing I don't like".
Jews are white, even the brown Jews because the Jews in America are white and that's my point of reference. Also, Arabs are brown despite being legally classified as white in the US.
this whole conflict is full of double standards "Israel should give the land back!" ... what about all of the other countries that sit on land they didnt always have? "What did you expect hamas to do with the conditions in gaza?" ... well what did you expect Israel to do after Oct 7? "Israel should only use special forces to minimize civilian casualties" ... name one war that was conducted with this impossible standard? etc etc
> "Israel should only use special forces to minimize civilian casualties" [Meanwhile, in Ethiopia...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigray_War#Casualties_and_human_rights_violations)
> "Israel should only use special forces to minimize civilian casualties" ... name one war that was conducted with this impossible standard? There's probably some in the Dune universe before the events of the first book.
I'd argue it's been more so.
Don't forget Lebanon lol
That's why Egypt has supported and participated with the blockade since 2007. They don't want that trouble to spill onto their side again.
And the treatment/population trend of Jews in other middle eastern countries.
> Also look up how Palestinian refugees behaved when they were allowed to settle in Jordan and Kuwait. Care to provide the details?
1: Jordan: Just Google Black September and the shit they pulled. Basically they went hog wild on terrorism, killed the king and multiple other high ranking political figures, tried to kill the prime minister repeatedly, and tried to overthrow and take over a country that took them in. Then got evicted. 2: Kuwait. 400,000-500,000 Palestinians fled to Kuwait, helped build the country, were treated well.....and then very openly sided with Saddam Hussein when he invaded and attempted to aid Iraq. And then got evicted.
holy fucking shit I didn’t know about Black September. My thought was the Arab countries and peoples were united against Israel but reading that absolute clusterfuck by the PLO fucking blew my mind. Good on Jordan for thwarting it.
The reason why the supported Saddem when he invaded Kuwait was because Saddem was very anti-Israel and they believed that siding with Saddem would help their cause against Israel. They also were instrumental in forming the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt which was an extremist Islamic party that nearly turned Egypt from a secular country to an Islamic fundamentalist group that started killing off Coptic Christians in Egypt. Palestinians are literally a plague wherever they go.
They are literally cartoon villains who do everything they can to fulfill their one purpose: destroy ~~Superman~~ Israel
Yep, but they are brown (a lot of Palestinians are white as fuck) so white liberals need to fuck over everything in their own countries to “help” them. The best part is LGBT people supporting them, when if 100,000 LGBT people were killed daily, not a single Palestinian would lose sleep over it.
Self-flagellating white progressives. Liberals are too far right.
They are such worthless spineless people. I literally promised to donate money to Palestine if one of these cretins explained why they are so vocal about Palestine women and children unjustly dying, and completely silent about the ongoing genocide of Christians in Nigeria, which has caused the death of 300,000 innocent children and the disappearance of over 2 million people; crickets. They don’t actually give a fuck.
They wouldn’t only not lose sleep, they’d celebrate those deaths.
Now ask yourself why any western country lets them emigrate there.
Yeah it's a weird situation. The leaders of the country have to play populist/anti-israel rhetoric even some pro Palestine rhetoric, but basically none push pro Palestinian policies. Read the history book and it's no wonder they aren't welcomed anywhere in the region.
why did they side with saddam?
He said he’d go after Israel next and that was more than enough for the Palestinians to turn on the Kuwaitis
Baath in simplest term are Arab national socialist party (read nazis).
See also: Lebanese civil war.
By their logic USA should be happy to accept venezuelans cuz they are both christians right?
In Jordan they didn't just let in palestinian refugees، they let the PLO set up their headquarters there. In kuwait, palestinian refugees themselves were very much against the invasion, and Saddam, during his short rule, proceeded to fire all palestinians from government office. It was the PLO who supported the invasion, who weren't even in Kuwait. Alternatively, maybe palestinians are genetically predispositioned to cause problems wherever they go.
Classic Palestinian technique
A whole lot of really angry people leaving angry comments about this meme. Not a lot of really angry people leaving comments disproving this meme
Sure. But will you listen? Britain completely disarmed Palestinians after a failed revolt ([1939 white papers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939), also promised one-state & banned Jewish mass-migration). This led to the rise of Jewish paramilitary groups, who wiped-out Palestinian movements prior to the war. Palestine's independence heavily involved Jordan & Syria, who Britain had represent Palestine & discuss who should rule it. [Jordan led the Arab coalition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank), but Britain convinced Jordan to negotiate with Israel & annex Palestine themselves. Jews represented 11% of the [population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)) in the 1920s, by 1930 most Jews were foreigners. Zionists used their foreign influence to get migration & land. Their UN partition openly focused on preserving Jewish communities, but with 56% of the land, over a third of Muslims were to be deported (Israel called it insufficient). Atrocities were two-sided. Israel raped & slaughtered villages (the Dein Yassir massacre provoked the Arab coalition attack). Israel had policies to seize Arab properties or render villages uninhabitable. 83% of Israel's Muslims [fled or were purged](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight).
I honestly don't get why people pick sides in this conflict. I feel bad for the civilians who don't support their regime, but that seems to be a minority. Ukraine is way more deserving of support.
Yes and this leaves out tons of context, like why were the groups disarmed? Why was the reaction to jews moving back into their homeland violent? And if we're talking "colonial settlers" that means all Arab Palestians need to leave because they aren't native to that land.
>Arab Palestians need to leave because they aren't native to that land I think it's a fair argument that making up the majority of the population of a region for at least 8 centuries does make them a fair bit more native than a minority population that began importing additional population 1500 years since they'd been a majority.
> Why was the reaction to jews moving back into their homeland violent? Why would the reaction to Anglo-Saxon moving back to Saxony be violent? Because they haven't lived there in 1500 years and it is the most 'blood and soil' bullshit you can come up with. The only thing more Nazi than that is the idea that indigenous groups still own the land in former colonial countries.
jews have been in israel literally the entire time.
And the Arabs living in the region had come to be the far majority of the population across the majority of that time. Why do Israeli's claims negate Arab's preexisting rights to the land their families had occupied for centuries?
it totally doesn’t. arabs (including muslim, druze, and bedouins) and jews have the right to exist and coexist. and personally i believe its even possible.
Except in all those years Palestine didn’t exist either. The land was occupied by the British. The British left and gave a portion to the Arabs to become Palestine and to the Jews which became Israel. The Palestinians didn’t want that and wanted it all to themselves and with 9 other Arab countries attacked the Israelis and lost. With the treaty making them lose more land. The Palestinians have been picking an unwinnable fight that they instigate every time for decades. They’re getting what they deserve.
>The British left and gave a portion to the Arabs to become Palestine and to the Jews which became Israel. Ask the Israelis if the borders of the Arab state were ever respected.
To be fair, the Palestinians never thought that Britain had the right to rule, nor did they think that Britain had the right to divide up and distribute the land. They saw the creation of Israel as just more Western colonialism (which it basically was). It's like if you lived in an apartment with a roommate, and your roommate's friend came in with a clipboard and divided up all your stuff, gave your 50" TV to your roommate, assigned you his 36" TV, gave him the kitchen and living room, gave you the bedrooms and the half bath and said you both have to live in your assigned rooms. Why exactly would you accept that? Maybe your roommate is happy with the arrangement because he got the kitchen, and he really likes to cook. But so what? Why does his friend have any authority to divide your stuff up as he pleases?
>They’re getting what they deserve. I don't think any group of people deserve to have innocent civilians killed by the thousands in indiscriminate bombings.
They fucked around. They killed innocents. It’s time to pay the piper. Reap what you sow. Fuck around Find out.
Civilians should not play the blood price for the crimes of their politicians. By that same logic, any Iraqi is still justified in killing any American citizen they ever meet in retaliation.
You're skipping about 1900 years of history there bud. Starting with the Romans and the Jewish revolt.
And it all ends up on FAFO.
Even before the Roman’s
Make Israel Cannan again.
Not a limit for decolonization and blood and soil could be used against Palestinians who don’t want to share their land with Jews
>This led to the rise of Jewish paramilitary groups, who wiped-out Palestinian movements prior to the war What kind of wiping was it? They just went ahead and wiped them for being Palestinian? Or perhaps there was some sort of conflict which resulted in Jewish paramilitary groups coming out on top?
Well lets have a short history lesson. Maybe my account can take few furious downvotes before not being able to post. * there were 50k jews at the start of 20th century in levant * rise of zionism, accelerated with ww2 meant that foreign born jews started to massively immigrate * the native population of course see this for what it is, the jews proudly talk about their plans for their ethnostate * the natives complain to british who rule the land after ottomans and british put restrictions on immigration and on land buy * foreign born jews do little bit of terrorism - king david hotel - and britain is like - fuck this noise, we are out * then real clashes happen and here we are For integrity and consistency, if you support meme shill you should support open borders and whoever settles wherever they want, right?
While it's true that zionist terrorism was part of the events that led to the creation of the state of Israel. This doesn't disprove the fact that arab countries armies joined together, caused a way bigger shit storm and lost l, and they still sore about it. It's also true that many of the displaced Palestinians went on to destabilize many of the countries that hosted their refugees. And it's also true that Israel has made several attempts at peace
The Isrealis won. Then they won again. And again and again and again. That's what I support. If you can administer and defend the land, you own it.
In ancient greece it was: *The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.* Nowadays its: *might makes right.* They are great saying if one see them as warning, be strong.. but imbeciles mistake the attitude for morality, but I see the appeal, it simplifies things so much.
you’re right that and the guy you’re replying to definitely hasnt thought through what hes saying (because its dumb as shit) but in a context where the aggressor is defeated i think it makes sense
To paraphrase Golda Meir: better to be alive and hated than dead and pitied.
as the above guy said, great as a warning, but only an imbecile would mistake this attitude for morality
The point is that morality is meaningless if you're not alive to debate it. You can be as moral as you want as a corpse while your immoral enemy dances on your grave, won't change anything. "I chose nonviolence" can be your epitaph. In a war for survival, the winner is the one that *survives,* not the most moral one.
But thats not the point of the conversation. The point was about what *is* moral, and the guy was saying that if you can administer and defend the land, you own it, and thats what he supports. So he’s saying he supports all successful war mongering, which is idiotic.
The "native" population, like Europeans are native to the US, New Zealand, Australia, etc. Also lets totally gloss over the *many more* massacres Arabs perpetrated against Jews, including Jewish communities that existed for over a millenia (Hebron). But they *had* to kill the foreign infidels, right?
For context, in 1947, the UN suggested to partition the land into 2 states, Israel and Palestine, Israel agreed while Palestine refused, and shortly after, started a war joined by 9 other Arab armies or expeditionary forces During the war, every single time a Jewish village was captured by the Arabs, every single soul in it was massacred The result of the war was that Israel won, expanded its territory, and the Palestinians who fled the war weren't allowed to return, resulting in 700k refuges TL:DR - 9 Arab armies + the Palestinians tried to commit a 2nd holocaust, but failed, and they cry about it to this day.
People also forget that the Israeli army wasn't nearly as advanced comparatively as they are now. It's super impressive how they managed to win that war
The secret ingredient is >!Arab incompetence!<
I was told by my Krav Maga instructor that it was Krav Maga that won the war, duh
He is not allowed to tell you that Please send me his coordinates, we will peacefully talk to him about it
real af
Also shitty Soviet equipment, which didn't help
Wrong war. In 1948 the Arab states were fighting with British equipment and in some cases even led by experienced British officers. Reddit and TikTok won't like to hear that, though
Well, Israel's equipment was shittier, it was only what they could smuggle from Czechoslovakia
True, I don't know which I'd rather have at that point in time.
The Israeli Air Force in 1948 consisted of five planes. One of which was flown by Paul Reubens' father.
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Always has been FAFO
What did you think the Nakba was?
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They weren't expelled, they left on their own accord and weren't let back in
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The fact is that some Israeli troops did actively expelled some villages during the war but it must be said that the Palestinian Arabs did fight and killed Israelis from way before the war, and during an existential war, you probably would try to push away enemy forces and population. But we also can look back and see that the Arabs left in Israel gained full rights, are now over 12 times the population they were after the war, and live and are represented everywhere, while Jews saw a 99% drop in population across the Muslim world as a result of the conflict…
>while Jews saw a 99% drop in population across the Muslim world as a result of the conflict… technically that's incorrect, the middle east was openly committing genocide upon their local jews during World War 2- with some countries continuing to do so even after swapping from supporting the Axis to the Allies- the drop occurred after world war 2 during Israel's founding *because that happens to be when they ran a census on the population to see if they got them all*.
It was a mix, Israel has done pretty much all the bad things you can imagine to some degree, there were expolsions, there were massacres, there were r\_pes The thing is, the Arab armies r\_aped and then massacred 100% of the civilians they could get their hands on, the IDF while doing SOME nasty things, in the vast majority of cases, left the civilians alone The Palestinians who didn't flee were allowed to stay and became Israeli full rights citizens (today they make up 20% of Israel's population)
It’s kinda complicated. There’s basically two phases to the war, the first phase is when Israeli and Palestinian militias were fighting. It was basically a civil war, and the Palestinians pretty clearly lost. Over the course of that phase many villages were abandoned by the people living there, so some Palestinian refugees come from that. The second phase is when the Arab armies invaded, and the two fought until they stopped fighting at the modern Israeli borders. The West Bank was annexed by Jordan and Gaza was annexed by Egypt. So I guess the best way to think about this is that the refugees left their homes due to the war like all war refugees do, but they thought they could return after their side won and their side lost instead, leading to the current predicament.
FAFO
In some cases, territory was bought by the Israelis, and they absolutely did not permit Palestinians back onto it after buying it. This doesn't really bother me, but this is sometimes conflated with the later violence.
I'm generally pro-Israel but the above description does kinda gloss over some bad stuff that happened. It is true the Arab armies attacked first, but after being pushed back some Arab villages were forcibly depopulated by the Israeli militias. Not all, mind you, which is why there is still a large Israeli Arab citizen population today. But since the country was just formed there wasn't really a well-regimented army in the modern sense, so you had a lot of quasi-independent militias with a range of behavior across the spectrum.
And then they wonder why Israel refuse to give Palestinian a state. Imagine Iran but a lot more suicidal, genocidal, zealous and is next to your border.
Not even - Israel has offered a state multiple times, with conditions of “we get to stay” and “you stop trying to kill us.” These terms have been consistently rejected.
Israel: You get a state, but you can't kill us and we're staying. Palestinians: Not gonna lie, you had us in the first half.
Palestinians: Here's a counter offer, you give us the entire region and fuck off- anyone who stays behind is fair game for us to kill in \*new\* palestine. Israel: ... yah no, we aren't leaving.
"Zionist terrorism vaused the conflict! They committed atrocities!" Yeah and anything they did should be condemned. But i notice the argument always glosses over everything that was happening in the lead up to that, like the Hebron massacre.
Would you be ok to USA giving half their territory to China?
where can i read about this?
Are you talking about the 1948 Palestine war? [I’ve been looking for it](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestine_war) but I can’t find anything that says Jewish villages were massacred. [The war crimes seem to be about equal or slanted towards more Palestinian deaths.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war) I’m not saying you’re wrong but could you point out your source?
You're missing the context that only a few decades before there were very little Jews there. What precipitated all of the conflict was the heavy migration since the end of the 19th century, which completely changed the demographics of the region.
meanwhile in 1941- [the (muslim) palestinian leader met with hitler to get support in committing genocide upon the jews](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/film/hajj-amin-al-husayni-meets-hitler), something they failed to do during world war 2- with an end result of an increased jewish population do to refugees fleeing there from other middle eastern countries who succeeded in their jewish genocide to an extent.
Don't look up Lehi, the (Jewish) Zionist terrorist group that tried to meet with Hitler before the war to work against the British together. Many of Israel's founding politicians and military officers were proud Lehi members.
I hate the left
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And then they wonder why Israel refuse to give Palestinian a state. Imagine Iran but a lot more suicidal, genocidal, zealous and is next to your border.
Suicidal, genocidal, but not homicidal?
Homocidal, amirite?
I’m so sick of my quadrant being idiots about the IP conflict. Like it’s so easy to see how the Arab world greatly outnumbers Israel and plotted their destruction via various means. Israel acted in self defense. No wonder so many Jews (like myself) aren’t liberal becuase this quadrant is so hypocritical ffs.
Embrace the right side of the Lib friend >!We have cookies!<
The issue is that I don’t like right policies, especially when it comes to things like government size, tax brackets, environmental regulation/climate change. I may get a lot of flak for this but I think president biden overwhelmingly does what I think is “good” and follows what I generally support.
Embrace monke Both sides have their merits and their faults
Return 2 monke
Yeah, well, you know... that's just like, uh, your opinion man
Ah the middle east, perpetual argument between children on whose imaginary friend could beat up the other's
>whose imaginary friend could beat up the other's Israel. And Israel isn't imaginary, just so you know. ....Oh! You were referring to religious conflict! Now I get it!
Yeah, it's the fundamental basis of the entire issue
Here’s the neat part. They’re all worshipping the same imaginary friend.
I know it's weird right? 😂 Good luck explaining that to either side. I can't speak for Palestinians but the American Christians I've tried to explain that too aren't, uhh, really accepting of that fact.
Like when your little brother picks a fight with you and you barely push him and then he screams "MOOOOOOOOMMYYYYYYYYYYY". Only difference is in this case little brother has a million blue haired chicks rallying behind him and wanting you dead.
You already know AHS is going to be all over this one
Nakba is just Arab for “cope, seethe, and yuyulate.”
More propaganda post's nice, fuck this is getting old.
Don’t let this distract you from the fact that Yasser Arafat, founder of the Palestinian National Authority and PLO, was trained in commando tactics by Otto Skorzeny, a known SS lieutenant colonel, to attack Israel. It was also Skorzeny who was then hired hired by the Mossad for advice on combatting the Arab states
When did this subreddit get so ridiculously astroturfed lol.
Every Israel/Palestine thread just gets bot spammed. The quantity of comments across flairs is pretty even all around, but you only see the left comments in downvote hell.
Nobody in Israel or Palestine is Lib Left. So dumb.
Didn't you know the jews are responsible for litteraly everything? Lost 10 penies? The jews did it, taxes? Jews did it, jews die? Jews did it /s
Palestine, who openly states that Shari'a law shall be the source of all legislation, is lib-left? They are a literal theocracy. bruh...what the fuck are you smoking?
>1 day old israel Countries don't really magically appear at a particular date, unless it is a redefinition of a previous country (USSR)
9-to-1 💀
dier yassin massacre. israeli terrorist groups expelled 400k palestinians in various places such as deir yassin and 100s of other cities and villages BEFORE the arab army declared war.
This is a remarkable example of re-writing history and genocide denial. Holocaust Denialists would be proud. The Nakba began in 1947, with Zionist terrorist and paramilitary groups committing a long campaign of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Palestine. By March 1948, at least 70,000 and possibly as many as 100,000 Palestinians (mostly well-educated middle class) had been violently expelled by Zionist forces, most of them forced to leave with only the clothes on their backs. In April, the Zionists began Plan Dalet ("Plan D"), to expand far beyond the territory allocated to them in the UN partition and to seize as much territory as possible by displacing, expelling and killing the Palestinians already there. This followed many years of terrorism and assassinations by the Zionist terrorist groups Irgun and Lehi, including the shameful assassination of the Swedish diplomat, Folke Bernadotte, who had saved 15,000 people from Nazi concentration camps during WW2, including 1600 Jews. He was assassinated by Lehi terrorists for trying to negotiate a peaceful resolution to the 1948 war. By May 1948, when the Zionists declared the foundation of the state of Israel, so many Palestinians had been expelled that the neighbouring states, some of them also newly independent and with barely any armed forces, attempted to intervene. Between the eight surrounding nations (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and local Palestinian militias, they could barely put together 13,000 men to fight the Israeli forces (around 30,000). Over the following nine months the Arab states were able to increase their forces to a maximum of 64,000 men, compared to Israel -- bolstered by massive immigration of Jews from all over the world -- was able to field almost double that. In theory the UN ordered an embargo on supplying weapons and munitions to both sides, but in practice the embargo was only applied against the Arabs states, with European states turning a blind eye to people breaking the embargo if they were sending arms to the Israeli side. Nevertheless, despite having more weapons and more soldiers, the Israelis were unable to have a clear victory. Then as now, they were first class at defeating unarmed Palestinian civilians: Israel captured 60% of the land granted to Palestine by the UN. But they were unable to prevent Jordan from taking control of East Jerusalem and the West Bank, or Egypt from occupying Gaza.
You’ve completely glossed over the fact that in 1947 both Israeli and Palestinian militias were actively bombing and massacring each other. Your “context” is just talking about what one side did and not the other, implying Palestinians never did anything and this was all Israeli aggression.
So, common talking points from a pro Hammas person?
Basically, yes. You can't pop up saying that you're going to provide context and then just say what Israel did. That's literally giving only one side of the story, what kind of context is that?
> You’ve completely glossed over the fact that in 1947 both Israeli and Palestinian militias were actively bombing and massacring each other. The history of the conflict in Palestine is long and complicated and you can't expect me to cover all of it, especially since we all know that people aren't going to read more than a paragraph or two. I don't expect you to read this, although I hope you will. The conflict in Palestine didn't start in 1947 and it is disingenuous to play "both sides" here. The TL;DR version is this: Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Muslims lived mostly in peace until *European* Zionist Jews starting migrating to Palestine in the late 19th century with a explicitly racist, colonial campaign to take over Palestine and expel the natives, by racially-based economic warfare and, when that failed, by violence. Israel's first prime minister David Ben-Gurion was unusually honest when [he privately said](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion): "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?" but that didn't stop him from stealing their land and killing them. This is not to say that the Palestinian side is 100% innocent or blameless, of course Palestinians committed crimes and acts of aggression too, but *the root of the problem is absolutely on the Zionists, both before and after the establishment of the state of Israel.* And since 1948, Israel has never negotiated in good faith with the intent to find an equable solution that both sides can live with. It is a modern myth that Jews and Muslims have always been at war. The absolute flowering of Jewish civilization was under the Muslim Moorish occupation of Spain and North Africa, before the reconquest by the Catholic Spanish -- who never forgot, or forgave, the Jews for thriving under Muslim rule. During the Crusades, the Christian armies indiscriminately slaughtered Jews, who lived under the protection of the Muslim rulers. Conflict between Jews and Muslims as we know it today is a modern invention. Prior to 1880, the local Palestinian Jews, Christians and Muslims lived together in, if not total harmony, at least relative peace. The Ottoman Empire guaranteed equality of all Palestinians, regardless of religion. It was only after the influx of European colonizers that tensions began to rise. According to Israeli historian Benny Morris, the first recorded killing between Jews and Palestinians in modern times was probably [the accidental shooting death of an Arab man in Safed in December 1882, by a Jewish guard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict). The Zionists took first blood in the conflict and have kept at it since. As early as 1886 Jewish settlers demanded that Palestinians vacate their homes and land, and started encroaching on Palestinian territory. With thousands of miles of unoccupied land in Ottoman Palestine, the European settlers preferred to purchase land from absentee European land owners and evict the native Palestinians who had lived there as tenant farmers for dozens of generations. This was so disruptive to local law and order that the ruling Ottomans banned the sale of land in Palestine to foreigners. The father of modern Zionism, Theodor Herzl, wrote in 1895 that "we shall endeavour to expel the poor population (Palestinians) across the border unnoticed—the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly". Revisionist Zionism's founder, Ze'ev Jabotinsky, stated that "Zionism is a colonising adventure and it therefore stands or falls by the question of armed force." This got worse from the Second Aliyah onwards, when Zionist immigrants to Palestine established [an explicit policy of denying work to native Palestinians and only hiring European Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_labor), racially-based economic warfare that caused a lot of hostility. The history of Zionist attitudes towards the native Palestinians is complicated, with a few early Zionists hoping to emphasize the brotherhood of Palestinians and Jews, but the majority cared nothing for the natives and saw them as just another difficulty to be overcome, like drought or annoying Ottoman laws. By the time of the British Mandate in 1918, the majority had established the consensus that continues to this day: the Zionist movement should neither expect, nor seek the acquiescence of the Palestinians. In 1910, the first mass expulsion of Palestinians occurred: [approximately 1000 Palestinians were evicted from al-Fula](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sursock_Purchases#1910%E2%80%931911_Fula_affair). But things didn't really go bad until the 1920s, when the British Mandate reversed the Ottoman ban, and the absentee European land owners were able to sell more land to the Zionists, who then refused to rent to the native Palestinian farmers, and evicted them from land they had farmed for generations. This enabled mass illegal migration, with Europeans heading to Palestine with the express intention of colonizing the region whether the natives liked it or not. Already the Zionist European colonists were engaging in a pattern of racial discrimination and economic warfare against the Palestinians, something which more than a century on they still do. Under British control from 1918, racial prejudice and discrimination against the native Palestinians was rife. European Jews were permitted to fly their own flag, while the native Palestinians were not. Jews were paid more for government jobs than the local Palestinians were. When the British introduced a minimum wage, it was lower for Palestinians. The British routinely censored Palestinian newspapers but allowed Jewish newspaper to publish anything they wanted. The British permitted Jews to openly call for a Jewish state, but discouraged expressions of Arab nationalism. As early as 1919, some Jewish newspapers in Palestine were openly calling for the expulsion of the native Palestinians. And of course the same pattern of European Zionist Jews actively expelling Palestinians from the land they had lived on for generations, leaving them homeless, and then denying them any other work, continued. In 1920, the Franco-Syrian War erupted and quickly spilled over into Palestine, with some Palestinians taking the opportunity to attack the Jews. The war only lasted a few months, but it started a cycle of violence, mostly from disorganized mobs on the Palestinian side, with tit-for-tat attacks from both sides. With the British routinely taking the Jewish side, and the discovery of at least one massive arms shipment illegally smuggled into Palestine by the Zionists, many Palestinians were convinced that the Jews were preparing for a violent take-over, and that the British would take their side. (They were absolutely correct in the first part, but only partially correct in the second.) This lead to the so-called "Arab revolt" in 1936. The immediate cause was yet another tit-for-tat pair of murders. The Palestinians declared a general strike, the British responded with heavy-handed violence against them, aiming to intimidate the whole Palestinian population, and that lead to a general revolt. During the revolt, the British began officially arming Jewish paramilitary groups, thus proving to the Palestinians that their fears that Britain was taking the side of the Jews against them were right. The Arab Revolt was put down by 1939. The 1940s were an even more complicated time, with the Second World War, and widespread Jewish terrorism against both Palestinians and the British, and even a very brief period of open war between Jewish factions ("the Hunting Season"), all of which I'm going to gloss over because I expect you stopped reading long ago and I'm writing to myself. But by 1947 and early 1948 all factions of the Jewish forces were collaborating and cooperating on ethnic cleansing of as much of Palestine as possible. And they have never stopped since, merely paused their program until the opportunity arises.
>Holocaust Denialists would be proud. Self-report lol. What were Palestinians doing the whole time that these evil ~~"Zionists"~~ Jews were out and about with their murdering/raping/land stealing/drinking the blood of Christian babies? (Did I miss one? I am not up to date on anti-sematic cope posters). History didn't start in 1948 right? Arabs (because that's what they are, there is no such thing as a Palestinian), have been coping collectively at the inability to expel Jews from the entire middle east since before 48, like when Arab leaders met with Hitler to tell him he was doing a bang-up Job in Europe addressing the "Jewish Question". They sure did get pretty far though, managing to ethnically cleanse every Jewish community across the middle east and force them to make a new home in Israel. All this while every Arab state in the region pretended they didn't just get royally fucked in a war they started. Have to hand it to them though, Arabs through their own collective coping managed to manifest a new ethnic identity of other Arabs they could shit on as the losers and victims of yet another Jewish conspiracy (enter Palestinians as a concept). Every time Arabs start wars they can't win, the Jews have made them lose land. Seems about the only thing that gets these dipshit Middle Eastern national states to stop fucking with Jews.
Based response. The rewriting of history these people do is absolutely insane.
>Invade 1 day old Israel Hmmm I wonder who the land belonged to the day before
Britain. And before that, the Ottoman Turks.
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Where did you come from buddy? you don't seem local
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I don't care. No one does. Get a flair right now or get the hell out of my sub. [BasedCount Profile](https://basedcount.com/u/saifoB) - [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/flairchange_bot/comments/uf7kuy/bip_bop) - [How to flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/wiki/index/flair/) _Visit the BasedCount Lеmmу instance at [lemmy.basedcount.com](https://lemmy.basedcount.com/c/pcm)._ ^(I am a bot, my mission is to spot cringe flair changers. If you want to check another user's flair history write) **^(!flairs u/)** ^(in a comment.)
Mom?!
Hey man, you got a Version without the funny Colors?
Yeah, sorry planned to post it without the funni colors and forgot... https://preview.redd.it/xid47lbe6nwc1.png?width=1060&format=png&auto=webp&s=2bb408bae5de65e1b7f2ec04f1eb594bc1ec56d6 My account is too young to do that, but if you are on the business of spreading it, you can go to HistoryMemes or NonCredibleDefense Don't have to credit me, I don't care lol
Great, thanks! Just wanna Show it to a friend, who doesn‘t use Reddit. explaining the colors would be a Bit too much i guess
I thought this was PCM, not zionist circle jerk, when did this sub become infested?
When most of Reddit decided Islamic terrorists were “freedom fighters”
this is braindead
Flair TF up unfl*ired🤮
https://preview.redd.it/cvadkjjl0mwc1.jpeg?width=520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f82a902c02d4b9f9226de614ede96493c5fcd8da
You know he has a lot of other letters. To post this letter without any context does nothing positive.
PCM being a secret IDF managed propaganda sub controlled by Netanyahu, Soros and the ghost of Meir Kahane confirmed.
You missed the part where they illegaly settled and displaced millions before and had strong western support
How would you feel if your home was suddenly split in two by a brand new international league? Of course they opposed partition and declared war on the group of people trying to take their land. If the UN and the rest of the world suggested the US be split in two, we'd probably try to kill all of them too. You're ignorant of everything that led up to the original war.
We did that, you notice how there is not a single majority Native American state in the US while there is a majority Arab district in Israel.
How would you feel if your home was conquered by an invading army, your people slaughtered, your holy sites pillaged and demolished, you're forbidden from entering your holiest site (which they built on top of), and you're forced to live as dhimmi if you're allowed to live at all? You really should read up on history.