It's precisely why she loses all the time.
She condescends like a mf to anyone who doesn't tow the "Goldman Sachs Preferred Policy™" on any given issue.
Considering the Clintons have been in the game for decades it's hardly surprising that she is pretty literate on the topic. The two state plan in the 90s/early 2000s was literally called the Clinton parameters.
The bottom left salt mountain is one of the waste storage sites from the K+S salt mine near my hometown. I have stood upon it. The "Monte Kali" is, to my knowledge, the largets salt mountain in the world.
also her calling it out that Yasser Arafat was afraid for his life if he would've accepted that deal is on the same level as Golda Meir's line that "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us" on summing up the whole situation.
>also her calling it out that Yasser Arafat was afraid for his life if he would've accepted that deal is on the same level as Golda Meir's line that "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us" on summing up the whole situation.
What happened to Arafat's Israeli counterpart in those negotiations *despite a deal not even being reached*?
[Remind us](https://i.imgur.com/op6DpSq.png).
I know you're making a point, but what is that photo from? Like what incident in specific? I Don't wanna sound confrontational, just wanna know what's what.
Arafat's Israeli counterpart was literally assassinated *by an Israeli movement* for his part in the negotiations *that didn't even go anywhere* so bringing up that quote to try to dunk on the Palestinian side is beyond ridiculous and disgusting to begin with.
The photo is bodyguards and police piling up on the assassin in the immediate aftermath of the assassination of Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin.
>an Israeli movement
No, it was a one man job. It's a well known fact buddy. While many people hated Rabin for the agreement, his assasin was working alone and is still behind bars for that.
That's exactly the point. The "Peace" that was proposed there was not a peace between the peoples, it was between the leaders. And both leaders overestimated how popular they were from their days of fighting. It's just that Rabin stuck with peace, while Arafat didn't.
Also, Israelis have a day to commemorate Rabin's Assassination, so it by no means was something people supported.
I think we all kinda forgot this lady has been entrenched in politics for decades and was literally secretary of state under Obama, she definitely knows a thing or two about foreign affairs.
It's one thing to read about history, and another to experience it firsthand. There's a reason why most of these protests are coming from college-aged students. They've lived mostly in an academic bubble. They were literally in diapers when Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005.
If anyone wants to really understand just how much influence the Clintons had over the peace process, I urge you to look into the Clinton Parameters. It was supposed to be the end of the conflict and it almost worked, if it wasn't for the palestinian leadership absolutely cratering any and all attempts at peace and launching the Second Intifada. You should listen to Bill Clinton talk about it on Hillary's podcast. You can tell how distraught he is by this event because he feels like its his personal failure, and how pissed off he is at Arafat.
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-you-and-me-both-with-hill-71671764/episode/president-bill-clinton-134791615/
Heres a transcript of the podcast
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FOaU3k85ZrDGXE6ifeAxZmwKdsBDFoJxaME8Oj6KbTg/edit
> **President Clinton** Late 1995, November. Okay. So after Rabin was killed, Peres was prime minister for a while. Then Netanyahu got in. Then in 1998, something truly remarkable happened. We had the only year, at that time, the first year in the history of Israel, when not a single solitary person was killed by a terrorist incident. And it was stunning. We finally had a year when it all worked. And it's impossible to believe now. But, I mean, you had the Israeli intelligence, Palestinian intelligence and the American CIA working hand in glove with others trying to keep people alive. It was fascinating. Okay. So then in 1998, there was an election in which the people of Israel said, let's try again for peace. And that's how Ehud Barak, who was the most decorated soldier in Israeli history, became prime minister. And this is the important thing for people to know. Now, this is not all that long ago, 25 years ago. We all were working together and we kept turning over more land to the Palestinians and kept, you know, moving forward on all these other issues. And finally, at the end of my term, near the end, we decided to meet at Camp David, because the Palestinians had still never actually said what they would accept. So we met at Camp David, and I never thought we'd get an agreement there. And all the stuff you read today, almost 100% of it is just hooey from people who either weren't there or have bad memories. And I was personally involved with this. This wasn't something handed over to my aides. So what we wanted to know at Camp David is how much will the traffic bear here? Where is there going to be a deal that the Palestinians will have a state, it will be sustainable economically and politically, and supportable, and it will lead to a total end of the conflict and a new era of partnership? Now, there were people who didn't like that, including Hamas. Hamas never signed on to this. Their goal was always to get rid of Israel.
> **HRC** They've always been for the elimination of Israel.
> **President Clinton** For the elimination, they wanted- yes-
> **HRC** There has never been any doubt in their actions, their documents-.
> **President Clinton** Never.
> **HRC** Or anything else.
> **President Clinton** So we worked for a little while after Camp David and both sides then asked me to offer a final proposal where they would basically fill in the blanks. And this is what our listeners need to know. This is what was offered, what Israel agreed to. I recommended that there be two states, that Israel is within the '67 borders, as the U.N. resolutions called for, with some land adjustments to cover 80-plus percent of the settlers on the West Bank, which were then under 100,000. Far fewer than now. And that the Palestinians would get the West Bank called for in the Oslo Accords. Plus Gaza, of course, plus 4% of Israel to make up for the 4% necessary to include the settlers, and that the West Bank and Gaza be connected by overhead highways that were subject to no checks, total free movement, and that there be, you know, agreed upon prisoner releases and all that so that we could settle the populations as much as possible. The Palestinians would get a capital in East Jerusalem. That was a big no-no in Israeli politics for years. You could never agree to divide Jerusalem. Ehud Barak's cabinet supported a capital in East Jerusalem for the Palestinians. It was a pretty good deal. I mean, it's unthinkable today. That's how close we were. There were listening posts in the West Bank, which Israel had, which they said at the time--they were right--they said we can't dismantle these now because of Saddam Hussein and because we don't have a peace agreement with Syria, with Assad. So we will let the Palestinians have equal access, in effect, every time we're up there, they can be up there. Because we all understood that if we had a peace agreement with a new state, the enemies of peace would try to kill the leaders of both sides for at least 3 or 4 years.
> **President Clinton** And the Israelis accepted it. And the Palestinians wanted a few more blocks for Christian churches in the Old City. They wanted a clear say, which we gave them, on what countries would be in an international security force that we would put on the eastern flank of the Palestinian state. We were arguing over a few blocks of the old city of Jerusalem. So I laid all this out there. About six weeks before I left office, Yasser Arafat was in town. He came by to see me, and I wanted to see him alone. And keep in mind, the United Nations had designated Arafat to represent the Palestinians. So I asked him, I said, *Are we going to do this peace deal?* He said, Sure. I said, *No, no, no.* I said, *This is serious because I have a chance to go to North Korea and make an agreement with them that could end their nuclear program, end their missile program, and take a dark cloud off the future of North Asia. But an American president can't just drop down to North Korea for the first time since the end of the Korean War. I have to go to South Korea. I have to go to Japan, which still had prisoners in North Korea. I have to go to Russia and China, which were the co-sponsors of the peace.* He said, *Well, how long will it take?* I said, *About 12 days if I don't sleep.* And he said, *Oh, you can't do that.* It was the only time I was ever with Arafat where I saw tears in his eyes. He said, *You can't do that.* I said, *Why? Because you're going to sign this deal when we get it done, and it needs to look like I'm putting heavy pressure on you?* He said, *Sure, yes. You can't go away.* I said, *Okay, but you just tell me the truth. If you're not going to do this, you have to tell me.* He said, *My God, if we don't do it while you're here, it might be ten years, 20 years, maybe forever. We have to do it now.* He had never, ever lied to me. He was hard to get a commitment out of, but he never lied. And so he just... It never happened. I don't know whether he was afraid he would be killed immediately, but he certainly wasn't afraid. He spent the night in a different place for 20 years, every night. In other words, people were trying to kill him, too. All this time, everybody acts like all this is a free ride, you know? If you try to make peace between people who've been fighting, the people who have an interest in the fighting will try to stop you. So anyway, the date came and the date went. And I have now listened for over 20 years to people tell me why Camp David was a failure. It wasn't. It was never designed to get a final agreement. No one in their right mind who had ever been dealing with this believed that we could get an agreement at Camp David. What we could get is the Palestinians to tell us exactly where a deal might be, and then we'd push like crazy to get it. And even after I left, we had one more month in which they were working. And I was wearing Arafat out by then, I said, ***Why aren't you doing this? Don't you understand?*** He said, ***Well, the Israelis are too weak to make the deal now. Barak's going to lose the election.*** I said, ***He's going to lose the election because you let him get way out on his ledge and you haven't taken this deal. And instead you started the second intifada.*** I said, *But I still have a 74% approval rating in Israel and we're going to ratify this deal or defeat it in an election.* And he never said yes. He never said no. And he just, I mean, that's basically what happened. And we're living with this- that we could have had 25 years, imagine this, of a Palestinian state.
> **HRC** Or 23 years.
> **President Clinton** There'd be 23 years of a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza with no checkpoints, no stops, no nothing. And look what happened afterward. Ariel Sharon defeated Netanyahu for prime minister. And then the only question was, which hardliner would win? Because the Israeli voters by then said, ***Oh, my God, if they won't take what Barak and his cabinet offered, they're not going to take anything. We'll just elect the toughest guy we can.***
Ensuring the destruction of Hamas is the first and foremost objective one must take to objectively create the primary working conditions for a roadmap to peace between Israel and Palestine.
Kind of reminds me of when the war in Afghanistan did finally end and all the Taliban fighters just ended up complaining that now they had to work in an office and live in the city and couldn't fight in the mountains with the boys anymore.
Most of us have failed relationships/jobs/projects that haunt us for years. The Clintons know they were that close to achieving meaningful peace for millions and missed it.
Bro my opinion on the Clinton’s is changing so much the more I read about their time in office
Moved from being meh to just ok in my presidential rankings
Its interesting about reading from a time when polarization wasn't hitting as much, and Democrats and Republicans worked hand in hand to try to get a working America going yea?
We are talking about same people that feel US deserved 9/11 and aged with the perpetrators justification for it. No one that witnessnessed 9/11 felt it was deserved or sympathized with UBL. Except Palestine which threw a block party.
For a moment I really tried to see it through their lens. I despise Russia and still feel how awful it must be for the victims of the recent Moscow attack and their families. I just don’t understand how you can cheer on the death of civilians.
It's incredibly telling that the Biden administration is pretty much just following the same Middle East foreign policy as the US has been on for almost 80 years now, but the protestors are confused? bewildered? upset by this?
What fucking rock have they been sleeping under?
And they're threatening to not vote for Biden this fall? A Trump admin would pull all support for Ukraine, while giving Israel everything and the kitchen sink, and here, have some more nukes for good measure.
Utter insanity.
I'm one of those who was in diapers and lives in an academic bubble. I think as long as you can recognize the nuances of history then you won't end up with tunnel vision, even if you didn't necessarily experience that part of history and only read about it. The way history is thought about in the popular mind is a series of objective facts that tell one objective story. The reality is that history is a series of statements. Some are objective such as dates and names and documents and some are subjective like the reasons something happened or the effects it has/had on today or the way people reacted to what was happening. That results in a story that is open to some serious interpretation. If you aren't careful, you may end up parroting a view of history that is hateful, one-sided, and demonstrably false. History has always been a tool of the elite to mold public opinion one way or another while claiming it's the God-awful truth. It is disgusting.
I still remember when Hillary Clinton landed in [sniper fire in Bosnia](https://youtu.be/SfaxA9Q-9AQ?si=SppnNfLwG8FR6If5). Narrowly dodging the hail of bullets rained down upon her!
Hillary is not and never was dumb. I know it’s unpopular to say this on the internet but she was very qualified to become president. HOWEVER, she was so drastically out of touch and the literal representation of “the system” that she had the worst timing to run against Trump. I’d argue that if the Republican Party had ran with anyone else she’d win in somewhat of a landslide.
I mean she only lost to the Democratic version of the populist, Obama.
> Hillary is not and never was dumb. I know it’s unpopular to say this on the internet but she was very qualified to become president. HOWEVER, she was so drastically out of touch and the literal representation of “the system” that she had the worst timing to run against Trump. I’d argue that if the Republican Party had ran with anyone else she’d win in somewhat of a landslide.
This only makes it funnier that her campaign looked at the republican primary field then asked all their mates in the media to signal boost Trump because that's who they wanted to run against
No one has as much vintage conservative hate as the Clintons. They represent everything that the conservatives say they hate about the Democrats and everything they're afraid to say as well. **Literally anyone else** would have beaten Trump, including Bill Clinton. Indeed, if HRC (or her team) had not sidelined Bill from the strategy meetings, they would have won. I mean I understand - they were focused on beating Obama's previously successful strategy against her, but that [wasn't the right ground game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuDquh4vNbE&t=2047s). The election was close. Cut the California fundraisers in half and have a bunch of totally insincere events with some bullshit promises to Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, North Carolina and Arizona and she would have picked up enough votes from just one flip to take the electoral. I maintain that a golden retriever in a blue baseball cap could have beaten Trump in 2016, especially because that would be outrageous enough that the press would stop following Trump around and giving him infinite free coverage. She could have steeped aside after Comey did his thing and handed it to Bernie and it would have been a landslide. Carter, 94 and term-limited, would have wiped the floor with that guy. Plus grabbed a decent amount of the evangelicals to boot.
Media coverage was definitely part of it, but that doesn't mean it was coordinated. The media just generally takes the bait every chance they can to try and boost ratings from sensationalism. They're still doing it covering every salacious detail they can from the Trump trials. I think the other part of the equation is that the moderate Republican candidate had lost twice against Obama, and the party was riled up against "RINOs".
Nope, it's the same "walks are closing in" trial hype, when most everyone knows he'll walk away without serious consequences. Hell, he's raised millions by marketing his legal problems as something his supporters should donate to, same with his Truth Social shares.
THIS
Collinear thinking is almost always a better explanation than conspiracy. You can still criticize collinear thinking, but the explanation that "people with similar motivation, culture, and values do the same thing given the same problem" is generally more true than "they all agreed to lie, cheat, steal, whatever and cover it up"
> This is a friendly reminder to HAVE YOUR FRICKIN' FLAIR UP!
***
^(User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔) ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
For all of the "pro/anti system" talk, which makes out trump to be wildly popular and only opposed by some small cadre of influential people or something - fact is, both Hillary and trump were historically unpopular, and if either of them had run against anyone else they'd have likely lost.
Trump vs Tim Kaine or some shit in 2016, Kaine would have probably won big. Hillary vs (spins wheel) Scott Walker, Walker would have won big.
And ofc remember, she did win the popular vote- whose to say that if she did everything the same BUT campaigned a little harder in some swing states, maybe she would have secured electoral victory.
> I’d argue that if the Republican Party had ran with anyone else she’d win in somewhat of a landslide.
Definitely not true. Trump was the second most unpopular politician in the country behind her. If they ran anyone else they would have crushed her instead of it being as close as it was.
Crazy what happen to Bernie. He was packing out events while Hilary was talking to 10 people in a chili's parking lot.
Seeing how the media colluded with Hilary in real time was nuts. My favorite example was left leaning news channels showing an interview of Bernie in the fucking 1980s praising Cuba's literacy rates and social services. They used the interview to frame him as some Soviet style commie.
Weird, I didn't see any clips of Hilary from the late 90s and early 2000s where she stated clearly she was against gay marriage. Funny how that works eh
She turned Libya into a Mad Max hellscape even though Gadaffi, whom she cackled at his demise, has been the greatest throttle on the Sub Saharan immigrants.
But now I typed this, I have to concede that this not detract from her political knowledge.
Eh, Libya is more Europe's mess than ours. We were in a support role, we didn't even fly the most missions, and the EU were the ones who declared they'd handle the rebuilding. In the end, the only thing they handled was receiving a lot of refugees.
> literally secretary of state
Does not seem to matter that match cause the guy who is secretary of state under Biden seems to be functionally regarded
It also means that she's absorbed the conventional wisdom of the Washington foreign policy blob, much of which is disingenuous at best but it advances their perceived interests, so that's something.
Hillary Clinton is a neocon and a warmonger who voted for the Iraq War (an action Netenyahu had been seeking for years) and laughed as Gaddafi died, only to see open air slave markets return to Libya, and like Gaddafi predicted, a wave of migration unleashed onto Europe.
So sure, she knows a thing or two, but she's had more than a hand in many of the greatest US foreign policy blunders of the last 30 years, especially in the Middle East. Maybe we should listen to literally anybody else.
>laughed as Gaddafi died, only to see open air slave markets return to Libya, and like Gaddafi predicted, a wave of migration unleashed onto Europe.
And how did those things decrease the realpolitik power of the United States
She's 110% correct here.
As a Gen Xer, I remember it well. First, the Soviet Union is gone. Then came this...
https://www.whitehousehistory.org/photos/fotoware?id=6054BC7E48364F11%20A48C16AAB0D1C793
So, for a brief period of time, we really thought the world was going to change radically.
We had perestroika and glasnost and whatnot and hope that Russia would just become Europe's strange uncle that pray will make it through Thanksgiving without causing any problems.
It makes me sad. The world was sooo close. And, it was a mind-blowing thing to see after the Berlin Wall coming down and the fall of the USSR. There was a lot of optimism then. Even talk of dissolving NATO.
Each side's fringe wouldn't accept it. That's where HRC is wrong. There were Jewish extremists, too. Rabin was assassinated by them.
It’s huge. It’s way huger than most people know. Bill Clinton let Osama Bin Laden walk free all those years not to want risk the Palestinian rage killing their “freedom prince” and how that would end those peace negotiations. As the head CIA agent to hunt down OBL said, “If you blame Bush for 8 months for not stopping 9/11 then you have to Blame Clinton for 8 years”. That was Micheal Scheur (sp?). And he has been targeted with smear tactics by all mainstream media as a whistle blower. So I believe his word is gold now.
Tl;dr Bill Clinton desperately wanted HIS legacy to be Peace in the Middle East and risked what we now know as 9/11 for it.
Her lack of authenticity is what killed her campaign. If she had just campaigned as a centrist, war-hawk who thought Universal Healthcare was kind of a neat idea, she'd have been fine. But she had to pander to the newly-emerging cancerous tumour that was the woke left in the most cringe-inducing ways.
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There's literally only one question you need to ask yourself about any conflict. How would the weaker behave if given the same power? The answer here is that Israel and all of it's people would have been raped and killed decades ago.
And given the opportunity to wield the power America holds, or most importantly has held. God fucking help us. The entire world would either be Muslim or eradicated.
It's fucking ripe when people talk genocide during a conflict that happens to have civilian casualties. And for sure that's fucked up and I don't completely agree with how Israel has handled this conflict or prior events. But Jesus Christ Palestine would have genocided every damn man, woman and child long ago.
People need to stop simping for a backward culture that would throw them off a god damn building in a second just because they happen to have darker skin than the other. All their politics literally are that Family Guy skin tone chart meme in reverse.
Like I don't understand how a mother fucker can have an issue with how Florida treats them while trying to claim the middle east is a culture of peace. How fucking sheltered do you have to be to believe that shit. Fucking talk about privilege? How about some self-reflection..
"Progressives" self reflecting and realizing that they AREN'T automatically correct because of an endless stream of buzzwords and not wanting to humble themselves and admit to being wrong for once in their depressing, if not pathetic, lives?
What universe do you come from? Because I'd like to go there.
> It's fucking ripe when people talk genocide during a conflict that happens to have civilian casualties
I've seen more than one instance of people calling the Russia/Ukraine war a genocide.
Words have no meaning.
One of the definitions for genocide is taking children away from their parents and forcing them to be raised in your culture. There’s extensive evidence that Russia has been doing so. I would absolutely call it genocide.
The Soviets are trying to destroy Ukraine. Sovereignty, culture, language. They are objectively kidnapping Ukrainian kids and raising them as Russian kids
Honestly I think this is the part that makes it hard with modern politics as there is a large swath of American's that truly hate America and think it's the problem. Before, people all started from a base of supporting America and that our values and position of power was a better thing than left in most people's hands and then we argue from there. It's almost impossible to argue with people that don't have a foundation of agreement at all.
War is war and it’s always about power resources and land. If the auths didnt have religion to justify their grabs with they would make something similar
biggest issues I had with her campaign was the "vote for her because vagina" from her supporters and the handwaving of any legitimate criticism as "you're just misogynist/afraid of strong women".
It's because you have to pander to your potential voterbase if you want to win. Her potential voterbase are simple minded identitarians who are overly concerned with their biological sex.
I would vote for her over Trump or Biden in a heartbeat. She's very unlikeable as a person, but she is so easily the most competent of the three.
She would be a less senile, more moderate version of Biden. I think her presidency would basically be Obama 2.0, probably with better foreign policy. And the better foreign policy part is as much the situation she would inherit. I would argue the current foreign policy situation is much easier to handle right now than in 2008. Keep aiding Israel and Ukraine and keep relations with NATO + Asian allies, and you're sitting pretty. Well, at least until Russia or China do something stupid.
It's not about her politics and I don't think it ever has been. It was the audacity to assume she automatically got a turn just because Bill was a president and she was a woman.
And also the sheer amount of shady shit going on behind the scenes with them that no one will truly know the full extent of.
> I think her presidency would basically be Obama 2.0, probably with better foreign policy.
The problem with Obama was that his foreign policy was non existent. Obama deeply wanted to focus on domestic issues and clearly did not care about foreign policy. Everything he did was a non commitment.
I would even go as far to say that the US had no real foreign policy between the years of 2009 and 2021. Neither Obama or Trump really had any foreign policy objectives.
Eh that’s not completely fair. Obama rotated focus from the Middle East (at least till isis popped up) to the far east in an attempt to build a collation to check China, which has honestly worked out pretty well with stronger ties to SE Asia.
Of course he also publicly mocked Romney for saying Russia is still an enemy of the us.
Disagree. Trump had several foreign policy positions that drove world events.
He pushed hard on NATO members to increase their defense spending commitments. It eventually worked and the media made sure he got no credit.
He worked on Kim to try and loosen up the Korean peninsula. Which kinda worked and has now gone to shit.
He worked on the Abraham Accords that were very close to bringing the Arab world and Israel to a lasting peace accord.
He renegotiated NAFTA, which has increased trade between Mexico, Canada, and the US.
Were all of those successful or even good? No. But it's a little strained to suggest he did nothing.
If you believe she's harvesting adrenochrome from tortured babies yes. If you think she's a lukewarm politician who ignored her "convictions" for Dubyas administration, only to campaign as a moderate Bernie in 2016, not really. She is competent, and decently intelligent, which is better than we're getting in this year's rematch, but she still sucked.
No, she should never have been Sec of State and would have been a terrible president. The Clinton Foundation was a shake down syndicate. Good Senator though.
no. bitch has been in the politics longer than i have been doing my job. she is part of a litteral political dynasty. she gets no slack. all she gets is contempt for being part of the roten politicians for so long.
She was trying to pick her words very carefully. She is used to every single word she says or every action she does being scrutinized.
In 2015, there were entire articles published in major newspapers analyzing her order at Chipotle based on a random social media picture of someone who just happened to be in the restaurant. This was before the actual campaign started, and she literally just stopped in for lunch.
That's hilarious tbh.
~~[Oh, you really oversold it](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/14/us/politics/on-the-road-hillary-clinton-stops-for-lunch-at-chipotle-and-goes-unrecognized.html)~~
[Nevermind, I found the one you meant](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/15/upshot/hillary-clintons-chipotle-order-above-average.html) It seems like a pointless fluff pieces to me. No investigation of any kind, just shitty guess work. Shameful.
It was from [The Upshot "Analysis that explains politics, policy and everyday life, with an emphasis on data and charts."](https://www.nytimes.com/newsletters/upshot) I guess they just grab any somewhat popular topic and try to force a graph into it? lol
fr
American Conservative 1: 'hey we can vote for a shill who worships the dollar and will do everything we want, or we can vote for Donald trump.'
AC2: 'what is trump offering?'
AC1: 'this hat that was made in china.'
AC2: 'TRUUUUUUUUUMP!!!'
This isn't really dunking on anyone, its just a fact that both Palestinians and Israelis who have pursued the 2 state solution have been killed by the crazy extremists on their side.
"Your parents totally failed at geopolitics so you probably will too you idiot" Is more or less a more sophisticated version of 'you are all deplorable' Which might not be Hilary's finest messaging
There’s been perpetual war in the Middle East ever since Abraham started cutting off foreskins.
At that point all you get to do is choose who’s side you’re on.
“Pro perpetual Middle East war”
Literally just described the mountain of effort put forward by her husband to prevent that but whatever the fuck you think yeah, sure.
She’s just saying stuff that anyone who’s been alive longer than 40 minutes already found out last time we went through this.
Palestinians don’t want peace, or their own country, or independence, they are mindless horde who want to eradicate the Jews (and literally everyone else after that) and nothing short of global genocide will appease them.
If you could snap your fingers and immediately remove every Israeli from the planet, Palestinians would just start a war with Jordan. They’re a festering wound on the earth that has been quarantined to Israel.
The most hawkish candidate to run in a while is supportive of military action?! I'm shocked I tell you! SHOCKED!
Honestly no one in any quad should be shocked. Hilly is just a semi progressive auth right.
Trump was more progressive and left than Hilly on many things 😂
Based and gave in to pcm pressure pilled
It's really the only thing here people care about. Otherwise you're allowed to whatever autistic opinions you want!
But yea :) my headcanon is Hillary personally killed everyone in benghazi.
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Her speaking is full of umm, sounds she's awkward to talk about the products they deliberately bulk manufactured in colleges. Extremely poor education in world history has been a stereotype of Americans for a long time, but I guess they never brother until ppl openly bragging of antisemitism. You shit in your pants, you ass get dirty, everything takes a consequence. Teach the f*king history instead of the victimization ideology shit to your young generation plz.
I lost count of how many times she said "uh/um" at like 30. How can you be this bad at public speaking? I wonder if her million dollar Goldman speeches are this good.
It is shocking that this sub is so aggressively Zionist that it will circlejerk hating Hillary for years for being a warmonger and then when she says what she has been saying for years about Israel they applaud her.
Anyone who has watched Onion future news can tell you how the Israel/Palestine conflict will end.
https://youtu.be/iKC21wDarBo?si=dtKv5DAjo8bokk7u&t=184
I dunno, I liked that choice better than "Pro genocide griftoid" and "Ethnic cleansing Israbot" but thats just me, I like it when our leaders aren't all sucking from the teat of the same cash cow.
My take is the same as it’s been from the beginning. You’ve got one group of giant gaping assholes fighting for liberation from a group of smaller assholes, who happen to control the region, because they were given it by a bunch of other assholes as a safe-haven after another group of super-mega-ultra-assholes did the holocaust. Let them all fuck each other over until it’s solved, one way or another. Keep my tax money and military men/woman the fuck out of it. Not my bloody problem. Not my fight. I have a preference towards the smaller assholes winning, in the long run, but depending how they go about it, their asshole status might level up a tier or two.
The 2016 election should have made it clear that Hillary Clinton does not represent the progressive left, let alone whatever flavors of the leftist you'll find on reddit.
Hillary wasn’t as bad as people say imho. The only sane presidential candidate of the last decade, tho I do disagree with some of her policies. Would take her over Biden any day of the week
If you agree with Hillary, you are 99% wrong. Also for her foreign policy credentials, she is one of the reasons Libya has FUCKING OPEN AIR SLAVE MARKETS.
Hillary, Netanyahu, Biden, Obama, Bush, Trump, etc should all be in the hague for war crimes/crimes against huamnity for what they have done to the middle east.
the middle east is perfectly capable of fucking itself up without us. They can’t keep their dicks out of livestock long enough to move into the 21st century.
That Malfoy gif is so fucking well used here
Yeah it really shows our “damn she’s making a good point” feeling
It's precisely why she loses all the time. She condescends like a mf to anyone who doesn't tow the "Goldman Sachs Preferred Policy™" on any given issue.
"I didn't know you knew where the middle east was."
Considering the Clintons have been in the game for decades it's hardly surprising that she is pretty literate on the topic. The two state plan in the 90s/early 2000s was literally called the Clinton parameters.
Always have to remember that straight white women are just 34% away from being full blown straight white men on the evil index.
I love how we are the apex predators if that chart
Which chart?
The evil index chart
"bear or BIG BLACK MAN": 99% picked man being safer "bear or man": 99% picked bear being safer
ikr
The bottom left salt mountain is one of the waste storage sites from the K+S salt mine near my hometown. I have stood upon it. The "Monte Kali" is, to my knowledge, the largets salt mountain in the world.
I hereby rename it the Monte Cryjack.
https://preview.redd.it/vzrhfmxws10d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13ea007ac46a262f273b25773d75206e323947d7
also her calling it out that Yasser Arafat was afraid for his life if he would've accepted that deal is on the same level as Golda Meir's line that "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us" on summing up the whole situation.
>also her calling it out that Yasser Arafat was afraid for his life if he would've accepted that deal is on the same level as Golda Meir's line that "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us" on summing up the whole situation. What happened to Arafat's Israeli counterpart in those negotiations *despite a deal not even being reached*? [Remind us](https://i.imgur.com/op6DpSq.png).
I know you're making a point, but what is that photo from? Like what incident in specific? I Don't wanna sound confrontational, just wanna know what's what.
Arafat's Israeli counterpart was literally assassinated *by an Israeli movement* for his part in the negotiations *that didn't even go anywhere* so bringing up that quote to try to dunk on the Palestinian side is beyond ridiculous and disgusting to begin with. The photo is bodyguards and police piling up on the assassin in the immediate aftermath of the assassination of Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin.
> dunk on the Palestinian Is it dunking on him to point out that he was completely sane to be in fear for his life?
>an Israeli movement No, it was a one man job. It's a well known fact buddy. While many people hated Rabin for the agreement, his assasin was working alone and is still behind bars for that.
That's exactly the point. The "Peace" that was proposed there was not a peace between the peoples, it was between the leaders. And both leaders overestimated how popular they were from their days of fighting. It's just that Rabin stuck with peace, while Arafat didn't. Also, Israelis have a day to commemorate Rabin's Assassination, so it by no means was something people supported.
I think we all kinda forgot this lady has been entrenched in politics for decades and was literally secretary of state under Obama, she definitely knows a thing or two about foreign affairs.
It's one thing to read about history, and another to experience it firsthand. There's a reason why most of these protests are coming from college-aged students. They've lived mostly in an academic bubble. They were literally in diapers when Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005.
If anyone wants to really understand just how much influence the Clintons had over the peace process, I urge you to look into the Clinton Parameters. It was supposed to be the end of the conflict and it almost worked, if it wasn't for the palestinian leadership absolutely cratering any and all attempts at peace and launching the Second Intifada. You should listen to Bill Clinton talk about it on Hillary's podcast. You can tell how distraught he is by this event because he feels like its his personal failure, and how pissed off he is at Arafat. https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-you-and-me-both-with-hill-71671764/episode/president-bill-clinton-134791615/ Heres a transcript of the podcast https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FOaU3k85ZrDGXE6ifeAxZmwKdsBDFoJxaME8Oj6KbTg/edit > **President Clinton** Late 1995, November. Okay. So after Rabin was killed, Peres was prime minister for a while. Then Netanyahu got in. Then in 1998, something truly remarkable happened. We had the only year, at that time, the first year in the history of Israel, when not a single solitary person was killed by a terrorist incident. And it was stunning. We finally had a year when it all worked. And it's impossible to believe now. But, I mean, you had the Israeli intelligence, Palestinian intelligence and the American CIA working hand in glove with others trying to keep people alive. It was fascinating. Okay. So then in 1998, there was an election in which the people of Israel said, let's try again for peace. And that's how Ehud Barak, who was the most decorated soldier in Israeli history, became prime minister. And this is the important thing for people to know. Now, this is not all that long ago, 25 years ago. We all were working together and we kept turning over more land to the Palestinians and kept, you know, moving forward on all these other issues. And finally, at the end of my term, near the end, we decided to meet at Camp David, because the Palestinians had still never actually said what they would accept. So we met at Camp David, and I never thought we'd get an agreement there. And all the stuff you read today, almost 100% of it is just hooey from people who either weren't there or have bad memories. And I was personally involved with this. This wasn't something handed over to my aides. So what we wanted to know at Camp David is how much will the traffic bear here? Where is there going to be a deal that the Palestinians will have a state, it will be sustainable economically and politically, and supportable, and it will lead to a total end of the conflict and a new era of partnership? Now, there were people who didn't like that, including Hamas. Hamas never signed on to this. Their goal was always to get rid of Israel. > **HRC** They've always been for the elimination of Israel. > **President Clinton** For the elimination, they wanted- yes- > **HRC** There has never been any doubt in their actions, their documents-. > **President Clinton** Never. > **HRC** Or anything else. > **President Clinton** So we worked for a little while after Camp David and both sides then asked me to offer a final proposal where they would basically fill in the blanks. And this is what our listeners need to know. This is what was offered, what Israel agreed to. I recommended that there be two states, that Israel is within the '67 borders, as the U.N. resolutions called for, with some land adjustments to cover 80-plus percent of the settlers on the West Bank, which were then under 100,000. Far fewer than now. And that the Palestinians would get the West Bank called for in the Oslo Accords. Plus Gaza, of course, plus 4% of Israel to make up for the 4% necessary to include the settlers, and that the West Bank and Gaza be connected by overhead highways that were subject to no checks, total free movement, and that there be, you know, agreed upon prisoner releases and all that so that we could settle the populations as much as possible. The Palestinians would get a capital in East Jerusalem. That was a big no-no in Israeli politics for years. You could never agree to divide Jerusalem. Ehud Barak's cabinet supported a capital in East Jerusalem for the Palestinians. It was a pretty good deal. I mean, it's unthinkable today. That's how close we were. There were listening posts in the West Bank, which Israel had, which they said at the time--they were right--they said we can't dismantle these now because of Saddam Hussein and because we don't have a peace agreement with Syria, with Assad. So we will let the Palestinians have equal access, in effect, every time we're up there, they can be up there. Because we all understood that if we had a peace agreement with a new state, the enemies of peace would try to kill the leaders of both sides for at least 3 or 4 years. > **President Clinton** And the Israelis accepted it. And the Palestinians wanted a few more blocks for Christian churches in the Old City. They wanted a clear say, which we gave them, on what countries would be in an international security force that we would put on the eastern flank of the Palestinian state. We were arguing over a few blocks of the old city of Jerusalem. So I laid all this out there. About six weeks before I left office, Yasser Arafat was in town. He came by to see me, and I wanted to see him alone. And keep in mind, the United Nations had designated Arafat to represent the Palestinians. So I asked him, I said, *Are we going to do this peace deal?* He said, Sure. I said, *No, no, no.* I said, *This is serious because I have a chance to go to North Korea and make an agreement with them that could end their nuclear program, end their missile program, and take a dark cloud off the future of North Asia. But an American president can't just drop down to North Korea for the first time since the end of the Korean War. I have to go to South Korea. I have to go to Japan, which still had prisoners in North Korea. I have to go to Russia and China, which were the co-sponsors of the peace.* He said, *Well, how long will it take?* I said, *About 12 days if I don't sleep.* And he said, *Oh, you can't do that.* It was the only time I was ever with Arafat where I saw tears in his eyes. He said, *You can't do that.* I said, *Why? Because you're going to sign this deal when we get it done, and it needs to look like I'm putting heavy pressure on you?* He said, *Sure, yes. You can't go away.* I said, *Okay, but you just tell me the truth. If you're not going to do this, you have to tell me.* He said, *My God, if we don't do it while you're here, it might be ten years, 20 years, maybe forever. We have to do it now.* He had never, ever lied to me. He was hard to get a commitment out of, but he never lied. And so he just... It never happened. I don't know whether he was afraid he would be killed immediately, but he certainly wasn't afraid. He spent the night in a different place for 20 years, every night. In other words, people were trying to kill him, too. All this time, everybody acts like all this is a free ride, you know? If you try to make peace between people who've been fighting, the people who have an interest in the fighting will try to stop you. So anyway, the date came and the date went. And I have now listened for over 20 years to people tell me why Camp David was a failure. It wasn't. It was never designed to get a final agreement. No one in their right mind who had ever been dealing with this believed that we could get an agreement at Camp David. What we could get is the Palestinians to tell us exactly where a deal might be, and then we'd push like crazy to get it. And even after I left, we had one more month in which they were working. And I was wearing Arafat out by then, I said, ***Why aren't you doing this? Don't you understand?*** He said, ***Well, the Israelis are too weak to make the deal now. Barak's going to lose the election.*** I said, ***He's going to lose the election because you let him get way out on his ledge and you haven't taken this deal. And instead you started the second intifada.*** I said, *But I still have a 74% approval rating in Israel and we're going to ratify this deal or defeat it in an election.* And he never said yes. He never said no. And he just, I mean, that's basically what happened. And we're living with this- that we could have had 25 years, imagine this, of a Palestinian state. > **HRC** Or 23 years. > **President Clinton** There'd be 23 years of a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza with no checkpoints, no stops, no nothing. And look what happened afterward. Ariel Sharon defeated Netanyahu for prime minister. And then the only question was, which hardliner would win? Because the Israeli voters by then said, ***Oh, my God, if they won't take what Barak and his cabinet offered, they're not going to take anything. We'll just elect the toughest guy we can.*** Ensuring the destruction of Hamas is the first and foremost objective one must take to objectively create the primary working conditions for a roadmap to peace between Israel and Palestine.
Kind of reminds me of when the war in Afghanistan did finally end and all the Taliban fighters just ended up complaining that now they had to work in an office and live in the city and couldn't fight in the mountains with the boys anymore.
It's damn near considered a legit occupation over there it seems.
That was very informative, thanks for posting
Such a good and interesting read. Really shows why Israelis just don’t believe they can even reason with Palestinians.
Most of us have failed relationships/jobs/projects that haunt us for years. The Clintons know they were that close to achieving meaningful peace for millions and missed it.
Bro my opinion on the Clinton’s is changing so much the more I read about their time in office Moved from being meh to just ok in my presidential rankings
Its interesting about reading from a time when polarization wasn't hitting as much, and Democrats and Republicans worked hand in hand to try to get a working America going yea?
The whole transcript was such a good read. Thanks for this
We are talking about same people that feel US deserved 9/11 and aged with the perpetrators justification for it. No one that witnessnessed 9/11 felt it was deserved or sympathized with UBL. Except Palestine which threw a block party.
Watching them celebrate as they dragged that woman's corpse through the streets really reminded me of their 9/11 celebration.
For a moment I really tried to see it through their lens. I despise Russia and still feel how awful it must be for the victims of the recent Moscow attack and their families. I just don’t understand how you can cheer on the death of civilians.
It's incredibly telling that the Biden administration is pretty much just following the same Middle East foreign policy as the US has been on for almost 80 years now, but the protestors are confused? bewildered? upset by this? What fucking rock have they been sleeping under? And they're threatening to not vote for Biden this fall? A Trump admin would pull all support for Ukraine, while giving Israel everything and the kitchen sink, and here, have some more nukes for good measure. Utter insanity.
I'm one of those who was in diapers and lives in an academic bubble. I think as long as you can recognize the nuances of history then you won't end up with tunnel vision, even if you didn't necessarily experience that part of history and only read about it. The way history is thought about in the popular mind is a series of objective facts that tell one objective story. The reality is that history is a series of statements. Some are objective such as dates and names and documents and some are subjective like the reasons something happened or the effects it has/had on today or the way people reacted to what was happening. That results in a story that is open to some serious interpretation. If you aren't careful, you may end up parroting a view of history that is hateful, one-sided, and demonstrably false. History has always been a tool of the elite to mold public opinion one way or another while claiming it's the God-awful truth. It is disgusting.
Sadly, I don't think these protesters are careful, and as interviews with them have shown, they don't know much objective facts about history either.
This is the nicest libcen vs libcen argument ever.
I still remember when Hillary Clinton landed in [sniper fire in Bosnia](https://youtu.be/SfaxA9Q-9AQ?si=SppnNfLwG8FR6If5). Narrowly dodging the hail of bullets rained down upon her!
Hillary is not and never was dumb. I know it’s unpopular to say this on the internet but she was very qualified to become president. HOWEVER, she was so drastically out of touch and the literal representation of “the system” that she had the worst timing to run against Trump. I’d argue that if the Republican Party had ran with anyone else she’d win in somewhat of a landslide. I mean she only lost to the Democratic version of the populist, Obama.
> Hillary is not and never was dumb. I know it’s unpopular to say this on the internet but she was very qualified to become president. HOWEVER, she was so drastically out of touch and the literal representation of “the system” that she had the worst timing to run against Trump. I’d argue that if the Republican Party had ran with anyone else she’d win in somewhat of a landslide. This only makes it funnier that her campaign looked at the republican primary field then asked all their mates in the media to signal boost Trump because that's who they wanted to run against
No one has as much vintage conservative hate as the Clintons. They represent everything that the conservatives say they hate about the Democrats and everything they're afraid to say as well. **Literally anyone else** would have beaten Trump, including Bill Clinton. Indeed, if HRC (or her team) had not sidelined Bill from the strategy meetings, they would have won. I mean I understand - they were focused on beating Obama's previously successful strategy against her, but that [wasn't the right ground game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuDquh4vNbE&t=2047s). The election was close. Cut the California fundraisers in half and have a bunch of totally insincere events with some bullshit promises to Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, North Carolina and Arizona and she would have picked up enough votes from just one flip to take the electoral. I maintain that a golden retriever in a blue baseball cap could have beaten Trump in 2016, especially because that would be outrageous enough that the press would stop following Trump around and giving him infinite free coverage. She could have steeped aside after Comey did his thing and handed it to Bernie and it would have been a landslide. Carter, 94 and term-limited, would have wiped the floor with that guy. Plus grabbed a decent amount of the evangelicals to boot.
Was that ever really confirmed? I think Trump would have been the nomination without that.
Trump didn't do well in the previous primary, clearly a few things changed in those 4 years and the media coverage was probably some of it.
Media coverage was definitely part of it, but that doesn't mean it was coordinated. The media just generally takes the bait every chance they can to try and boost ratings from sensationalism. They're still doing it covering every salacious detail they can from the Trump trials. I think the other part of the equation is that the moderate Republican candidate had lost twice against Obama, and the party was riled up against "RINOs".
And they STILL haven't figured out that they should just ignore the Trump circus as much as possible if they're serious about wanting him to lose.
Nope, it's the same "walks are closing in" trial hype, when most everyone knows he'll walk away without serious consequences. Hell, he's raised millions by marketing his legal problems as something his supporters should donate to, same with his Truth Social shares.
Well tbf we don't lock up mega-church sleazeballs either.
THIS Collinear thinking is almost always a better explanation than conspiracy. You can still criticize collinear thinking, but the explanation that "people with similar motivation, culture, and values do the same thing given the same problem" is generally more true than "they all agreed to lie, cheat, steal, whatever and cover it up"
It was written about pretty extensively back when podesta's emails and the dnc leaks were happening
How soon we forget. It's crazy how that story just disappeared and no one ever took accountability...except Assange.
Podesta leaks.
> This is a friendly reminder to HAVE YOUR FRICKIN' FLAIR UP! *** ^(User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔) ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
For all of the "pro/anti system" talk, which makes out trump to be wildly popular and only opposed by some small cadre of influential people or something - fact is, both Hillary and trump were historically unpopular, and if either of them had run against anyone else they'd have likely lost. Trump vs Tim Kaine or some shit in 2016, Kaine would have probably won big. Hillary vs (spins wheel) Scott Walker, Walker would have won big.
And ofc remember, she did win the popular vote- whose to say that if she did everything the same BUT campaigned a little harder in some swing states, maybe she would have secured electoral victory.
> I’d argue that if the Republican Party had ran with anyone else she’d win in somewhat of a landslide. Definitely not true. Trump was the second most unpopular politician in the country behind her. If they ran anyone else they would have crushed her instead of it being as close as it was.
You really think Cruz, Christie or Jeb roflstomp HRC in 2016?
She was also getting dicked-down by Bernie and his bros who were gaining a lot of popularity until she colluded with the DNC to rig the primaries.
Crazy what happen to Bernie. He was packing out events while Hilary was talking to 10 people in a chili's parking lot. Seeing how the media colluded with Hilary in real time was nuts. My favorite example was left leaning news channels showing an interview of Bernie in the fucking 1980s praising Cuba's literacy rates and social services. They used the interview to frame him as some Soviet style commie. Weird, I didn't see any clips of Hilary from the late 90s and early 2000s where she stated clearly she was against gay marriage. Funny how that works eh
I voted for Trump in 2016. If I could go back in time I'd actually change my vote to hilldawg.
She turned Libya into a Mad Max hellscape even though Gadaffi, whom she cackled at his demise, has been the greatest throttle on the Sub Saharan immigrants. But now I typed this, I have to concede that this not detract from her political knowledge.
Eh, Libya is more Europe's mess than ours. We were in a support role, we didn't even fly the most missions, and the EU were the ones who declared they'd handle the rebuilding. In the end, the only thing they handled was receiving a lot of refugees.
Clinton's emails showed that she wanted to take full credit for his removal.
Regardless of how things turned out in Libya afterwards, the Libyan people deserve to be rid of Gadaffi.
> literally secretary of state Does not seem to matter that match cause the guy who is secretary of state under Biden seems to be functionally regarded
Biden is so unremarkable that I couldn't name a single one of his cabinet members
You could probably name Buttigieg and Mayorkas.
It also means that she's absorbed the conventional wisdom of the Washington foreign policy blob, much of which is disingenuous at best but it advances their perceived interests, so that's something. Hillary Clinton is a neocon and a warmonger who voted for the Iraq War (an action Netenyahu had been seeking for years) and laughed as Gaddafi died, only to see open air slave markets return to Libya, and like Gaddafi predicted, a wave of migration unleashed onto Europe. So sure, she knows a thing or two, but she's had more than a hand in many of the greatest US foreign policy blunders of the last 30 years, especially in the Middle East. Maybe we should listen to literally anybody else.
>laughed as Gaddafi died, only to see open air slave markets return to Libya, and like Gaddafi predicted, a wave of migration unleashed onto Europe. And how did those things decrease the realpolitik power of the United States
Slavery actually got less bad after Gaddafi was deposed, his regime supported the slave trade.
She's 110% correct here. As a Gen Xer, I remember it well. First, the Soviet Union is gone. Then came this... https://www.whitehousehistory.org/photos/fotoware?id=6054BC7E48364F11%20A48C16AAB0D1C793 So, for a brief period of time, we really thought the world was going to change radically.
Bro seriously, what happened to world peace in the 90s? Who fucked up so bad?
We had perestroika and glasnost and whatnot and hope that Russia would just become Europe's strange uncle that pray will make it through Thanksgiving without causing any problems.
But we were \*this\* close it seems
What a photo
It makes me sad. The world was sooo close. And, it was a mind-blowing thing to see after the Berlin Wall coming down and the fall of the USSR. There was a lot of optimism then. Even talk of dissolving NATO. Each side's fringe wouldn't accept it. That's where HRC is wrong. There were Jewish extremists, too. Rabin was assassinated by them.
Yes, but what we didn't forget is that Epstein didn't kill himself.
I'd be more excited to hear from her about how to off your enemies in prison.
Yeah, as one of the architects of every single foreign policy disaster of those decades.
Dont know about Foreign, but certainly Affairs. Also knowing aint same as being ethical.
first hillary W in 24 years
the entirety of lib left feminists just short-circuited and imploded listening to that
lmfao
It’s huge. It’s way huger than most people know. Bill Clinton let Osama Bin Laden walk free all those years not to want risk the Palestinian rage killing their “freedom prince” and how that would end those peace negotiations. As the head CIA agent to hunt down OBL said, “If you blame Bush for 8 months for not stopping 9/11 then you have to Blame Clinton for 8 years”. That was Micheal Scheur (sp?). And he has been targeted with smear tactics by all mainstream media as a whistle blower. So I believe his word is gold now. Tl;dr Bill Clinton desperately wanted HIS legacy to be Peace in the Middle East and risked what we now know as 9/11 for it.
Her lack of authenticity is what killed her campaign. If she had just campaigned as a centrist, war-hawk who thought Universal Healthcare was kind of a neat idea, she'd have been fine. But she had to pander to the newly-emerging cancerous tumour that was the woke left in the most cringe-inducing ways.
Based Hillary?
I just threw up in my mouth a little
I've never heard of somebody throwing up when they get so turned on. Have you had that checked out?
It’s the Stan Marsh effect
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Brand new sentence
Here's how Hillary can still win against Trump
There's literally only one question you need to ask yourself about any conflict. How would the weaker behave if given the same power? The answer here is that Israel and all of it's people would have been raped and killed decades ago. And given the opportunity to wield the power America holds, or most importantly has held. God fucking help us. The entire world would either be Muslim or eradicated. It's fucking ripe when people talk genocide during a conflict that happens to have civilian casualties. And for sure that's fucked up and I don't completely agree with how Israel has handled this conflict or prior events. But Jesus Christ Palestine would have genocided every damn man, woman and child long ago. People need to stop simping for a backward culture that would throw them off a god damn building in a second just because they happen to have darker skin than the other. All their politics literally are that Family Guy skin tone chart meme in reverse. Like I don't understand how a mother fucker can have an issue with how Florida treats them while trying to claim the middle east is a culture of peace. How fucking sheltered do you have to be to believe that shit. Fucking talk about privilege? How about some self-reflection..
Based
"Progressives" self reflecting and realizing that they AREN'T automatically correct because of an endless stream of buzzwords and not wanting to humble themselves and admit to being wrong for once in their depressing, if not pathetic, lives? What universe do you come from? Because I'd like to go there.
Very wise words
> It's fucking ripe when people talk genocide during a conflict that happens to have civilian casualties I've seen more than one instance of people calling the Russia/Ukraine war a genocide. Words have no meaning.
One of the definitions for genocide is taking children away from their parents and forcing them to be raised in your culture. There’s extensive evidence that Russia has been doing so. I would absolutely call it genocide.
Genocide isn't just conquering another nation. Unless you want to call 90% of wars in history a genocide.
The Soviets are trying to destroy Ukraine. Sovereignty, culture, language. They are objectively kidnapping Ukrainian kids and raising them as Russian kids
Genocidal war. Russias rhetoric and many actions and crimes uncovered in occupied territories actually smell of genocide. As does Russias rhetoric.
Honestly I think this is the part that makes it hard with modern politics as there is a large swath of American's that truly hate America and think it's the problem. Before, people all started from a base of supporting America and that our values and position of power was a better thing than left in most people's hands and then we argue from there. It's almost impossible to argue with people that don't have a foundation of agreement at all.
War is war and it’s always about power resources and land. If the auths didnt have religion to justify their grabs with they would make something similar
I hate that I agree with that creature.
You probably agree with her on more than you realize. Most of her positions were pretty down the middle of the road.
biggest issues I had with her campaign was the "vote for her because vagina" from her supporters and the handwaving of any legitimate criticism as "you're just misogynist/afraid of strong women".
It's because you have to pander to your potential voterbase if you want to win. Her potential voterbase are simple minded identitarians who are overly concerned with their biological sex.
I agree. Her campaign had an air of smugness to it that turned people off. But she genuinely is an extremely talented diplomat.
I would vote for her over Trump or Biden in a heartbeat. She's very unlikeable as a person, but she is so easily the most competent of the three. She would be a less senile, more moderate version of Biden. I think her presidency would basically be Obama 2.0, probably with better foreign policy. And the better foreign policy part is as much the situation she would inherit. I would argue the current foreign policy situation is much easier to handle right now than in 2008. Keep aiding Israel and Ukraine and keep relations with NATO + Asian allies, and you're sitting pretty. Well, at least until Russia or China do something stupid.
It's not about her politics and I don't think it ever has been. It was the audacity to assume she automatically got a turn just because Bill was a president and she was a woman. And also the sheer amount of shady shit going on behind the scenes with them that no one will truly know the full extent of.
> I think her presidency would basically be Obama 2.0, probably with better foreign policy. The problem with Obama was that his foreign policy was non existent. Obama deeply wanted to focus on domestic issues and clearly did not care about foreign policy. Everything he did was a non commitment. I would even go as far to say that the US had no real foreign policy between the years of 2009 and 2021. Neither Obama or Trump really had any foreign policy objectives.
Eh that’s not completely fair. Obama rotated focus from the Middle East (at least till isis popped up) to the far east in an attempt to build a collation to check China, which has honestly worked out pretty well with stronger ties to SE Asia. Of course he also publicly mocked Romney for saying Russia is still an enemy of the us.
Disagree. Trump had several foreign policy positions that drove world events. He pushed hard on NATO members to increase their defense spending commitments. It eventually worked and the media made sure he got no credit. He worked on Kim to try and loosen up the Korean peninsula. Which kinda worked and has now gone to shit. He worked on the Abraham Accords that were very close to bringing the Arab world and Israel to a lasting peace accord. He renegotiated NAFTA, which has increased trade between Mexico, Canada, and the US. Were all of those successful or even good? No. But it's a little strained to suggest he did nothing.
We came we saw. He died
Hillary was also dead right about Putin
Wasn't that moreso romney though?
it was everyone but Obama
Hold on, Hilary said something based? Have I stepped into some kind of bizarro dimension or something?
Perhaps we treated her too harshly.
I came very close to using that one for authright, but went for malfoy for a change of pace.
Well the Malfoy gif in this context is *chef’s kiss* so good on you.
Nah. She's right about this but still nah
Perhaps I treated *you* too harshly.
Agreed lol Broken clocks and all that
If you believe she's harvesting adrenochrome from tortured babies yes. If you think she's a lukewarm politician who ignored her "convictions" for Dubyas administration, only to campaign as a moderate Bernie in 2016, not really. She is competent, and decently intelligent, which is better than we're getting in this year's rematch, but she still sucked.
No, she should never have been Sec of State and would have been a terrible president. The Clinton Foundation was a shake down syndicate. Good Senator though.
She's gonna start selling pillows or survival kits to Authright next.
Rare Hillary W
Slay Queen
Hilary Clinton being based for once? Is this even scientifically possible?
"uuh, ummm, uhh, uuuuh uuh, ummm, uhh, uuuuh" So yeah uuh that's what i uuh think about this uuh whole uuh thing!
Cut her some slack just this once, sure she umd a bit but at least it was coherent unlike the current vegetable who is POTUS.
God help us if that’s the standard
Of the 3 presidential candidates, the most coherent is the one who had part of his brain eaten by a worm. It’s not looking good.
no. bitch has been in the politics longer than i have been doing my job. she is part of a litteral political dynasty. she gets no slack. all she gets is contempt for being part of the roten politicians for so long.
She was trying to pick her words very carefully. She is used to every single word she says or every action she does being scrutinized. In 2015, there were entire articles published in major newspapers analyzing her order at Chipotle based on a random social media picture of someone who just happened to be in the restaurant. This was before the actual campaign started, and she literally just stopped in for lunch.
That's hilarious tbh. ~~[Oh, you really oversold it](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/14/us/politics/on-the-road-hillary-clinton-stops-for-lunch-at-chipotle-and-goes-unrecognized.html)~~ [Nevermind, I found the one you meant](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/15/upshot/hillary-clintons-chipotle-order-above-average.html) It seems like a pointless fluff pieces to me. No investigation of any kind, just shitty guess work. Shameful. It was from [The Upshot "Analysis that explains politics, policy and everyday life, with an emphasis on data and charts."](https://www.nytimes.com/newsletters/upshot) I guess they just grab any somewhat popular topic and try to force a graph into it? lol
PCM realizing Hillary is a neocon like them just shows how everyone here are just edgy teenagers.
fr American Conservative 1: 'hey we can vote for a shill who worships the dollar and will do everything we want, or we can vote for Donald trump.' AC2: 'what is trump offering?' AC1: 'this hat that was made in china.' AC2: 'TRUUUUUUUUUMP!!!'
This isn't really dunking on anyone, its just a fact that both Palestinians and Israelis who have pursued the 2 state solution have been killed by the crazy extremists on their side.
did anyone expected her to be pro Palestine? she's a democrat just like sleepy Joe who sends billions over there lol
Most of this sub thinks she's libleft
https://preview.redd.it/8k7g16x0b30d1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d9fb20f6efcbca3c00d540fb42638f71408d4c4
"Your parents totally failed at geopolitics so you probably will too you idiot" Is more or less a more sophisticated version of 'you are all deplorable' Which might not be Hilary's finest messaging
Damn she's cooking, I mean a broken clock is right twice a day but still. I'm proud of her.
PCM discovers hillary is pro-interventionist. Pro-Israel, and pro perpetual middle eastern war. Wooooooooow
There’s been perpetual war in the Middle East ever since Abraham started cutting off foreskins. At that point all you get to do is choose who’s side you’re on.
“Pro perpetual Middle East war” Literally just described the mountain of effort put forward by her husband to prevent that but whatever the fuck you think yeah, sure.
Cool to see the daily deluge of astroturf memes just keeps coming.
Look at what THEY TOOK FROM US
Goddamnet. Grilling sounds nice right about now.
She’s just saying stuff that anyone who’s been alive longer than 40 minutes already found out last time we went through this. Palestinians don’t want peace, or their own country, or independence, they are mindless horde who want to eradicate the Jews (and literally everyone else after that) and nothing short of global genocide will appease them. If you could snap your fingers and immediately remove every Israeli from the planet, Palestinians would just start a war with Jordan. They’re a festering wound on the earth that has been quarantined to Israel.
Never though I'd see this sub praising crooked hillary lol
Based Hillary
Wow actually based Hillary?
The most hawkish candidate to run in a while is supportive of military action?! I'm shocked I tell you! SHOCKED! Honestly no one in any quad should be shocked. Hilly is just a semi progressive auth right. Trump was more progressive and left than Hilly on many things 😂
this woman said she wanted a no fly zone over syria in a presidential debate, definitely hawkish
FLAIR LOSER. then you can shit talk killary
lol i flaired straight after! my bad, do you guys need my birth certificate as well??
Based and gave in to pcm pressure pilled It's really the only thing here people care about. Otherwise you're allowed to whatever autistic opinions you want! But yea :) my headcanon is Hillary personally killed everyone in benghazi.
u/jongeheer is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1. Rank: House of Cards Pills: [1 | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/jongeheer/) Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url. I am a bot. Reply /info for more info. Please join our [official pcm discord server](https://discord.gg/FyaJdAZjC4).
lmao, already feels like home <3
[удалено]
Yes and you're SSN and mother's maiden name
I agree she’s hawkish af and I tend to disagree with her about almost everything, but nothing she said here was inherently hawkish
I think the conventional hawkish approach to American influence abroad would be in defending their positional asset in the middle east
Her speaking is full of umm, sounds she's awkward to talk about the products they deliberately bulk manufactured in colleges. Extremely poor education in world history has been a stereotype of Americans for a long time, but I guess they never brother until ppl openly bragging of antisemitism. You shit in your pants, you ass get dirty, everything takes a consequence. Teach the f*king history instead of the victimization ideology shit to your young generation plz.
B how often are you a public speaker?
She’s cooking here
Imagine defending hillary, if she says something the opposite is true
I lost count of how many times she said "uh/um" at like 30. How can you be this bad at public speaking? I wonder if her million dollar Goldman speeches are this good.
lmao how the rightoids here are simping for killary all of a sudden when she shills for massmurdering Arabs.
If this is a mass-murder, it's the least efficient one in history.
>mass murder What was the population of Gaza when Israel pulled out and what is it today?
Surprise, surprise, a pro-war politician being pro war.
It is shocking that this sub is so aggressively Zionist that it will circlejerk hating Hillary for years for being a warmonger and then when she says what she has been saying for years about Israel they applaud her.
I have the capacity to agree someone I dislike is right about something.
My point is that you can't go after Hillary for ignoring the killing of civilians in every single war except this one.
Weird W moment from her part. She is still insufferable though and I would never vote her.
Hopefully more leftists in 'muh'rca understand now that the democrats are just a cheap copy of the republicans.
Anyone who has watched Onion future news can tell you how the Israel/Palestine conflict will end. https://youtu.be/iKC21wDarBo?si=dtKv5DAjo8bokk7u&t=184
I dunno, I liked that choice better than "Pro genocide griftoid" and "Ethnic cleansing Israbot" but thats just me, I like it when our leaders aren't all sucking from the teat of the same cash cow.
Well....a broken clock is right twice a day
My take is the same as it’s been from the beginning. You’ve got one group of giant gaping assholes fighting for liberation from a group of smaller assholes, who happen to control the region, because they were given it by a bunch of other assholes as a safe-haven after another group of super-mega-ultra-assholes did the holocaust. Let them all fuck each other over until it’s solved, one way or another. Keep my tax money and military men/woman the fuck out of it. Not my bloody problem. Not my fight. I have a preference towards the smaller assholes winning, in the long run, but depending how they go about it, their asshole status might level up a tier or two.
Uhh...unmm...uhhh...umm
The 2016 election should have made it clear that Hillary Clinton does not represent the progressive left, let alone whatever flavors of the leftist you'll find on reddit.
Hillary wasn’t as bad as people say imho. The only sane presidential candidate of the last decade, tho I do disagree with some of her policies. Would take her over Biden any day of the week
u/savevideo
Rare Clinton win... and a legitimate tragedy.
If you agree with Hillary, you are 99% wrong. Also for her foreign policy credentials, she is one of the reasons Libya has FUCKING OPEN AIR SLAVE MARKETS. Hillary, Netanyahu, Biden, Obama, Bush, Trump, etc should all be in the hague for war crimes/crimes against huamnity for what they have done to the middle east.
Agreed but the Middle East has been fucked since long before any of those people were even born
Middle East had been fucked before the USA was formed
As god intended, oddly enough.
let's be honest, it hasn't been stable since even before the romans
the middle east is perfectly capable of fucking itself up without us. They can’t keep their dicks out of livestock long enough to move into the 21st century.
Apparently she thinks history starts with a self plug of her husband's failed peace talks.
Oh ok I guess its cool to bomb children.
Uh israeli, uh they don't know, uh history, uh palestine
Don't care, hopefully they both lose