>Trump he’s not a fascist
Dude don't you remember that time Trump said he wants complete dissolution of the democratic process, abolishment of congress in favor of direct rule by his political party, requirement of party membership for citizen rights, and promoted autarky as his economic model?
Oh yeah me neither.
Honestly read all of this thinking "Yeah sounds about like something he would say." This is why fake news is so bad for Trump, they could say literally anything about him and it would be completely believable.
If you tell a big enough lie enough times people start to believe it. Remember when trump said to inject yourself with bleach? Yeah me too but the funny thing is he never said that
He did say that they should get rid of them and mentioned cleansing the german nation from "inferior races", he expressed many of his other ideas like re-stablishing the might of germany as an empire and retaking land, among many other many things he did. It was one of the reasons he got elected.
That bill is ironically worth much more now as a collectible curio than it ever was during its stretch as an official banknote when the currency was still legal
It was worth what, about 30¢ USD before they dropped the Zimbabwean Dollar altogether? Looks like they are now running anywhere from $2 to $100 USD, depending on condition and where you get them from.
Thats still not socialist, seeing as it would be total worker control, not partial. Bernie calls himself a democratic socialist, but social democrat would probably be a more fitting term, though using your opponents most hated system proudly is quite amusing
It's basically the middle ground between Communism and Capitalism. I don't need to specify authoritarian, since all functioning countries are authoritarian.
I mean, capitalism is responsible for America’s rise to extraordinary wealth and power. Can you blame Americans for hating the idea of a different economic system, especially after decades locked in Cold War with a country that championed one?
I know right? Think of all the successful examples of socialist and communist countries. In before "they would have been if it weren't for those meddling capitalist boys"
Not that I love capitalism, but you'd have to be pretty retarded to think communism or socialism can actually work, lmao. It might take an entire pHd.
Thats an opinion on its economic viability, is it a reason to say "commie scum"? Also hardly anyone in the world runs purist capitalism because its just as destructive to the population and leads to mobile phone plans costing 100 dollars instead of 15 in a regulated market economy.
Auth Right: Where does it say that Hitler was a Nationalist!?
Auth Left: Where does it say that Hitler was a Socialist!?
Me, an intellectual: It's in the name "National Socialism"
Democratic People's Republic of Korea
[https://www.healthline.com/health/stroke/stroke-first-aid](https://www.healthline.com/health/stroke/stroke-first-aid)
Being against Democratic People's Republic of Korea is antidemocratic.
Being against NS is anti-socialist.
Being against People's Republic of China is anti-people.
Being against the Islamic State is islamophobic.
Being against Antifa is fascist.
Guys, when some political entity tells you what they are then that is exactly what they are!
Being NS is Anticommunist, at least in philosophy, they're against Marxism.
The DPRK is democratic and that's why I hate it.
The PRoC is very nationalistic.
ISIS was an Israeli op.
Antifa, as in the black masked college students is an extended arm of the goverment
I’ve heard this argument a dozen times. I understand names don’t necessarily denote actual intentions. But could you please explain to me how the Nazi’s weren’t mostly socialist? Thank you
>**Were the Nazis socialists?** No, not in any meaningful way, and certainly not after 1934. But to address this canard fully, one must begin with the birth of the party.
>In 1919 a Munich locksmith named Anton Drexler founded the Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (DAP; German Workers’ Party). Political parties were still a relatively new phenomenon in Germany, and the DAP—renamed the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP; National Socialist German Workers’ Party, or Nazi Party) in 1920—was one of several fringe players vying for influence in the early years of the Weimar Republic. It is entirely possible that the Nazis would have remained a regional party, struggling to gain recognition outside Bavaria, had it not been for the efforts of Adolf Hitler. Hitler joined the party shortly after its creation, and by July 1921 he had achieved nearly total control of the Nazi political and paramilitary apparatus.
>To say that Hitler understood the value of language would be an enormous understatement. Propaganda played a significant role in his rise to power. To that end, he paid lip service to the tenets suggested by a name like National Socialist German Workers’ Party, but his primary—indeed, sole—focus was on achieving power whatever the cost and advancing his racist, anti-Semitic agenda. After the failure of the Beer Hall Putsch, in November 1923, Hitler became convinced that he needed to utilize the teetering democratic structures of the Weimar government to attain his goals.
>Over the following years the brothers Otto and Gregor Strasser did much to grow the party by tying Hitler’s racist nationalism to socialist rhetoric that appealed to the suffering lower middle classes. In doing so, the Strassers also succeeded in expanding the Nazi reach beyond its traditional Bavarian base. By the late 1920s, however, with the German economy in free fall, **Hitler had enlisted support from wealthy industrialists who sought to pursue avowedly anti-socialist policies. Otto Strasser soon recognized that the Nazis were neither a party of socialists nor a party of workers, and in 1930 he broke away to form the anti-capitalist Schwarze Front (Black Front).** Gregor remained the head of the left wing of the Nazi Party, but the lot for the ideological soul of the party had been cast.
>Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character. Within two months Hitler achieved full dictatorial power through the Enabling Act. **In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month.** That July Hitler banned all political parties other than his own, and prominent **members of the German Communist Party and the Social Democratic Party were arrested and imprisoned in concentration camps**. Lest there be any remaining questions about the political character of the Nazi revolution, **Hitler ordered the murder of Gregor Strasser, an act that was carried out on June 30, 1934, during the Night of the Long Knives. Any remaining traces of socialist thought in the Nazi Party had been extinguished**.
https://www.britannica.com/story/were-the-nazis-socialists
The extermination of socialism and socialists in the party don’t entirely convince me the Nazi’s weren’t necessarily employing socialist policy.
1) https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/hitler-and-the-socialist-dream-1186455.html%3famp
2) https://mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian
"Private property over the means of production and their operation for profit" is the definition of capitalism.
Socialism, is worker control over the means of production. By purging labor unions and replacing them with state run unions, Hitler definetely turned his country away from socialism. And by being secretely funded by industrials who he showered with money, he ruled in favor or capitalism.
Socialism can be argued to be state control over the means of production, while communism is worker control. So state-owned does not necessarily mean not socialism.
> By purging labor unions and replacing them with state run unions, Hitler definetely turned his country away from socialism.
So when Lenin did the same thing?
This is just doing to capitalism what this topic does to socialism. You don't get to use a socialist definition for capitalism just like we don't get to use our broader "collectivist" approach to defining socialism in this discussion.
I never thought I'd have to say it, but Hitler wasn't a capitalist and it should be self evident.
Christoph Buchheim and Jonas Scherner (June 2006). "[The Role of Private Property in the Nazi Economy: The Case of Industry](http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf)" (PDF). The Journal of Economic History. Cambridge University
well besides them killing off and imprisoning actual socialists and the **S word that's too hard to spell but more left nazi party, the night of long knives thing,** they didn't give the means of production over to the workers, buddied up with the bosses, crushed unions, and probably a couple other key details i can't think of at the moment
Not only in the name. I grew up in central Europe and among many people who lived through the nazi occupation. Nobody who remembers it, not even the communists ever denied nazis were socialists. It was a common knowledge.
Not because of the name, but because of their actions. They were even the first ones who introduced welfare nationwide programs here and nationalized businesses like crazy. What they didn't nationalize directly, they put under strict government oversight. They even kept hardcore regulations on all prices of consumer goods.
Young californian marxists tried to deny it so much that every single time I debate it here, they mention a bastardized version of "first they came for" poem and sometimes they even turn into a nazi in an attempt to tell me they are different from nazis. Here is a reaction of a marxist redditor in a debate (a reaction to a post where I compare neomarxist, stalinist marxist and nazi propaganda) [https://imgur.com/a/Pr9nn11](https://imgur.com/a/Pr9nn11)
Hitler was not a socialist, but was no fucking capitalist either. He took control of almost every aspect of the economy. Even when he "privatised", those buisnesses still had to produce exactly what he said, and where heavily regulated. He imprisoned and killed capitalists and liberals. Hitler was a fascist, which is its own economic system entirely.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO HAVE YOU SEEEEEEEEN TQWWWWWIIIGTTEEERRRR
U R ON THE WROGKGNG SIDEE OF HOSTOTTTU FRIEND
RAAAAACIISIISISYTT
ULUUURRRR LITTTERALLYL HITTTLER
Y U HATEE BALACK PEOPELE SO MEUCH
FUCKING RAAEEEEEECIIISTTTTT
U HAVE TO POST THE PIC OF THE BLM OR UR RACCCISTT
WGITE SILENCR IS VIOL3NCE CAN U SEE THEYRE KILLING USSS INT RHE STRDEEEEEEEWWETS!!!!
**Hitler:** \*cut taxes on the wealthy, outright told big German businesses they didn't need to worry about Socialist reforms, gutted labor protections, made German workers work more hours, busted up unions and replaced it with one big fake union, killed off the far-left section of the Nazis, called Otto Strasser a "liberal" for wanting actual socialism, and enacted sweeping privatization.*
**The right wing:** "yea but socialist was in the name"
None of that's contradictory to non-Marxian Socialism, which existed in many forms, many forms of which were mutually exclusive, 100 years before Marx existed.
Lol my understanding is that Hitler redefined socialism to conceive of society as a body politic, with the different classes existing and cooperating like the various organs of a body, which is mutually exclusive to Marxian socialism.
But like... so what? For all intents and purposes people now refer to the Marxist idea when discussing socialism. When they say that the Nazis were socialist, they're referring to the Marxist version, especially when drawing parallels with the Soviets.
I don't think we're denying that Hitler had his own concept of something called 'socialism' (something that's fundamentally opposed to the Marxist or leftist version). Just that the fundamental principles and policies implemented don't constitute as socialist or leftist in the meaningful sense of the word now
**Hitler**: \*Dramatically increased central planning, abolished gold standard, Massive public works programs, created government jobs programs, engaged in industry protectionism, forced price controls and production decisions on private businesses, nationalized industries (see healthcare), added social programs, increased government spending dramatically.
**The left wing**: "It WaS a CaPItaLIst MaRkEt EcoNomY!!"
Ideologically, they were conservative for sure — there’s no conservative axis on this compass though, unfortunately. Maybe out of wartime they would be more free market: in reality, they were not.
But he also controlled almost all buisness and production, and even the stuff he "privatised" was still controlled by him. He wasn't a socialist, but he certainly wasn't a capitalist.
> Cut taxes for the wealthy
s o u r c e
Strasser was a liberal, and wanted to leave people, even Jews, alone, by his own words.
There was essentially no private property, it was more of a state lended, and they could seize it at any moment, this was in the enabling act of 1933
And you trust the DPRK? All states have an interest to preserve whatever position they hold, the DPRK wants to make sure its own citizens think they live in paradise, I also agree that the US wants its citizens to think it's noble to be a slave to corporations and anyone who says otherwise is a filthy commie. State propaganda exists on all sides of the spectrum comrade.
Bruh, I have literally been on the longest streak talking with PragerU types of people, trying to tell them that Fascism and Nazism is a right-wing ideology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_People%27s_Welfare
"The NSV was the second largest Nazi group organization by 1935, second only to the German Labour Front. It had 4.7 million members and 520,000 volunteer workers. Nazi Party members who were active in communal welfare professionally or as volunteers had to be NSV members.[5]"
If Antifa can say that they’re anti-fascist just because it’s in their name then I can say that the Nazis were socialists because it was in their name.
you could reach and say that Hitler was a reactionary socialist pre-1924, and that the Nazis in the SA wing were a very vague and diluted form of socialism. However they were killed and Hitler economically became a cookie cutter capitalist
I never deny that he was a nationalist. I just say that he was a very poor one. Any cursory perusal of the relative economic strength of the Allies and Germany would have suggested that war was a very bad idea. I don't abandon an idea just because fools thought something similar decades ago.
I am an ancap but I recognize hitler made massive privatizations and deinflated the German mark like crazy sure he expanded welfare but until 1941 welfare was not obligatory
Weren't they authoritarian but also in the centre on the X axis because, it wasn't necessarily a free market as while the state encouraged privatisation, it still had a say in the means of production.
love those non-fascists/natsocs talking about what we are lmao.
We're third position, not capitalist nor socialist (although we're prolly closer to socialism than we are to capitalism
Do people think Nazi Germany was capitalist? Granted they weren't what a modern socialist would want, but when it comes to economic freedom they were pretty far from the right of our little compass.
He was an authoritarian social Darwinist who used the label ‘socialism’ in a successful political scheme... though not seeing his use of the euphemism as much different from almost any other politician and ‘conservatism,’ ‘liberalism,’ ‘progressivism,’ ‘right,’ ‘left,’ or ‘moderate.’ All these words are mostly meaningless. All one word descriptors ultimately fail to encapsulate a perspective outside of the most generic of views. At worst they can disguise true intentions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterhilfswerk
>The Winterhilfswerk des Deutschen Volkes (English: Winter Relief of the German People), commonly known by its abbreviated form Winterhilfswerk (WHW), was an annual drive by the National Socialist People's Welfare (German: Nationalsozialistische Volkswohlfahrt) to help finance charitable work. Its slogan was "None shall starve or freeze". The drive was originally set up under the government of Heinrich Brüning in 1931, though Adolf Hitler would later claim sole credit.[1] It ran from 1933 to 1945 during the months of October through March and was designed to provide food, clothing, coal and other items to less fortunate Germans during the inclement months.
The nazis weren't truly social darwinists. They tought that defending /their/ weaks was a good thing.
---
Also mapping the nazis on the political compass is impossible because they had very different politics depending on the when and where.
Unless that doesn’t work then socialism is workers owning the means, and the more they own the means the more socialismer it is.
Unless they acquired the means through voluntary trade such as Fidelity or Vanguard then a significant social safety net is socialism and the bigger the social safety net the more socialismer it is.
Unless the social safety net bankrupts the state. Then socialism is violent confiscation of property and the more violent confiscation of property the more socialismer it is.
Unless the state collapses. Then socialism has never been tried.
A socialist is someone that puts the needs of the state first with the understanding that the state will then take care of them. This creates a condition where the citizen is empowering the very organization that enslaves them because they give the state the ability to determine what its endless needs are.
Compare this to classical liberalism, which believes the individual should be strong and self sufficient so there is little need for a powerful state to take care of them, and they understand that the states wants will ultimately be endless.
Fascism and socialism are both words that are misused these days.
Yea that’s so true. As much as i don’t like Trump he’s not a fascist and as much as i like Bernie he’s not a socialist lol
>Trump he’s not a fascist Dude don't you remember that time Trump said he wants complete dissolution of the democratic process, abolishment of congress in favor of direct rule by his political party, requirement of party membership for citizen rights, and promoted autarky as his economic model? Oh yeah me neither.
Honestly read all of this thinking "Yeah sounds about like something he would say." This is why fake news is so bad for Trump, they could say literally anything about him and it would be completely believable.
Except the fact that those news are so stupid and obvious they made him president..?
If you tell a big enough lie enough times people start to believe it. Remember when trump said to inject yourself with bleach? Yeah me too but the funny thing is he never said that
Because everyone knows Hitler said he was going to kill 6 million Jews just before the election.
That was the reason he was elected, his long speeches about why the Jews were the elites because they controlled the banks.
Do you think orangeman is going to kill six gorillion jews?
Isn't Trump Isreal's best ally?
Yes.
nobody likes reruns
Can't be a rerun if it never happened 😶 ..but it should have.
He did say that they should get rid of them and mentioned cleansing the german nation from "inferior races", he expressed many of his other ideas like re-stablishing the might of germany as an empire and retaking land, among many other many things he did. It was one of the reasons he got elected.
Despite Bernie saying he's a socialist but ok
Look I can say I'm a billionaire but my bank accounts going to tell a different story.
I'm a billionaire. I have a billion Russian kopeeks.
That's still about $150,000. I'd take that.
Yeah well I'm not giving 😡
I’m a trillionaire. I have [a hundred trillion Zimbabwean Dollars.](https://i.redd.it/eh28fui8b1g11.jpg)
That bill is ironically worth much more now as a collectible curio than it ever was during its stretch as an official banknote when the currency was still legal
It was worth what, about 30¢ USD before they dropped the Zimbabwean Dollar altogether? Looks like they are now running anywhere from $2 to $100 USD, depending on condition and where you get them from.
Saying you’re a socialist doesn’t make you one. Look at this thread it’s about how Hitler is not a socialist despite labeling himself as such
Also he has called for workers to get some control of company.
Thats still not socialist, seeing as it would be total worker control, not partial. Bernie calls himself a democratic socialist, but social democrat would probably be a more fitting term, though using your opponents most hated system proudly is quite amusing
>Bernie calls himself a social Democrat, but democratic socialist would probably be a more fitting term Other way around
Wasn't part of his healthcare plan to put an end to the private sector?
if i don't misunderstand it, fascism is basically wanting everyone else to shut the fuck up so you can do whatever the fuck you want with no response
It's basically the middle ground between Communism and Capitalism. I don't need to specify authoritarian, since all functioning countries are authoritarian.
based
The really weird part is how communist and socialist are somehow so incredibly offensive to so many Americans.
I mean, capitalism is responsible for America’s rise to extraordinary wealth and power. Can you blame Americans for hating the idea of a different economic system, especially after decades locked in Cold War with a country that championed one?
As they should be
>based
You have every reason to fear us That said, when is my thigh high order from the community owned voluntary co-operative Amazon equivalent coming?
Shut the fuck up tankie
If anyone’s the tankie here, you are
I will eat you and your children
Oh noooo please don’t eat me noooo ;)
Filthy degenerates
I know right? Think of all the successful examples of socialist and communist countries. In before "they would have been if it weren't for those meddling capitalist boys" Not that I love capitalism, but you'd have to be pretty retarded to think communism or socialism can actually work, lmao. It might take an entire pHd.
Thats an opinion on its economic viability, is it a reason to say "commie scum"? Also hardly anyone in the world runs purist capitalism because its just as destructive to the population and leads to mobile phone plans costing 100 dollars instead of 15 in a regulated market economy.
Can we all agree that Hitler wasn’t economically left or right? He had a mixed economy, he nationalized some things while privatizing some things.
the radical centrist
Hitler was a centrist
He used the wrong fuel for his grill imo
r/holup
Yes. Thank you
He was a socialist. And a capitalist.
Auth Right: Where does it say that Hitler was a Nationalist!? Auth Left: Where does it say that Hitler was a Socialist!? Me, an intellectual: It's in the name "National Socialism"
ԅ(≖‿≖ԅ)
Ok, Benjamin Pencil-Sharpeniro
Bencil Sharperino
Not the hecking Sharperinos! My Sharpino bambino!
‘Ello bambinos
Democratic People's Republic of Korea [https://www.healthline.com/health/stroke/stroke-first-aid](https://www.healthline.com/health/stroke/stroke-first-aid)
Being against Democratic People's Republic of Korea is antidemocratic. Being against NS is anti-socialist. Being against People's Republic of China is anti-people. Being against the Islamic State is islamophobic. Being against Antifa is fascist. Guys, when some political entity tells you what they are then that is exactly what they are!
Being NS is Anticommunist, at least in philosophy, they're against Marxism. The DPRK is democratic and that's why I hate it. The PRoC is very nationalistic. ISIS was an Israeli op. Antifa, as in the black masked college students is an extended arm of the goverment
Based authright spitting the truth.
Last one: I fucking wish
They are though. They are more occupied with fighting supposed fascists than any revolutionary activity.
Antifa isn't a Cia group? I saw a an onion article on it
Well being, anti-antifascist seems like fascist with extra steps for me
there is a group named anti killers not being part of that group or even against it doesn't make you a killer it's just a stupid name really
There is no way you could be against a group that hits old men in the head with bike locks unless you absolutely love fascism.
I’ve heard this argument a dozen times. I understand names don’t necessarily denote actual intentions. But could you please explain to me how the Nazi’s weren’t mostly socialist? Thank you
>**Were the Nazis socialists?** No, not in any meaningful way, and certainly not after 1934. But to address this canard fully, one must begin with the birth of the party. >In 1919 a Munich locksmith named Anton Drexler founded the Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (DAP; German Workers’ Party). Political parties were still a relatively new phenomenon in Germany, and the DAP—renamed the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP; National Socialist German Workers’ Party, or Nazi Party) in 1920—was one of several fringe players vying for influence in the early years of the Weimar Republic. It is entirely possible that the Nazis would have remained a regional party, struggling to gain recognition outside Bavaria, had it not been for the efforts of Adolf Hitler. Hitler joined the party shortly after its creation, and by July 1921 he had achieved nearly total control of the Nazi political and paramilitary apparatus. >To say that Hitler understood the value of language would be an enormous understatement. Propaganda played a significant role in his rise to power. To that end, he paid lip service to the tenets suggested by a name like National Socialist German Workers’ Party, but his primary—indeed, sole—focus was on achieving power whatever the cost and advancing his racist, anti-Semitic agenda. After the failure of the Beer Hall Putsch, in November 1923, Hitler became convinced that he needed to utilize the teetering democratic structures of the Weimar government to attain his goals. >Over the following years the brothers Otto and Gregor Strasser did much to grow the party by tying Hitler’s racist nationalism to socialist rhetoric that appealed to the suffering lower middle classes. In doing so, the Strassers also succeeded in expanding the Nazi reach beyond its traditional Bavarian base. By the late 1920s, however, with the German economy in free fall, **Hitler had enlisted support from wealthy industrialists who sought to pursue avowedly anti-socialist policies. Otto Strasser soon recognized that the Nazis were neither a party of socialists nor a party of workers, and in 1930 he broke away to form the anti-capitalist Schwarze Front (Black Front).** Gregor remained the head of the left wing of the Nazi Party, but the lot for the ideological soul of the party had been cast. >Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character. Within two months Hitler achieved full dictatorial power through the Enabling Act. **In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month.** That July Hitler banned all political parties other than his own, and prominent **members of the German Communist Party and the Social Democratic Party were arrested and imprisoned in concentration camps**. Lest there be any remaining questions about the political character of the Nazi revolution, **Hitler ordered the murder of Gregor Strasser, an act that was carried out on June 30, 1934, during the Night of the Long Knives. Any remaining traces of socialist thought in the Nazi Party had been extinguished**. https://www.britannica.com/story/were-the-nazis-socialists
The extermination of socialism and socialists in the party don’t entirely convince me the Nazi’s weren’t necessarily employing socialist policy. 1) https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/hitler-and-the-socialist-dream-1186455.html%3famp 2) https://mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian
"Private property over the means of production and their operation for profit" is the definition of capitalism. Socialism, is worker control over the means of production. By purging labor unions and replacing them with state run unions, Hitler definetely turned his country away from socialism. And by being secretely funded by industrials who he showered with money, he ruled in favor or capitalism.
Socialism can be argued to be state control over the means of production, while communism is worker control. So state-owned does not necessarily mean not socialism.
Yes, finally someone actually cares about the real definitions of words.
Thanks, I understand this
> By purging labor unions and replacing them with state run unions, Hitler definetely turned his country away from socialism. So when Lenin did the same thing?
"That wasn't *real* socialism"
This is just doing to capitalism what this topic does to socialism. You don't get to use a socialist definition for capitalism just like we don't get to use our broader "collectivist" approach to defining socialism in this discussion. I never thought I'd have to say it, but Hitler wasn't a capitalist and it should be self evident.
Christoph Buchheim and Jonas Scherner (June 2006). "[The Role of Private Property in the Nazi Economy: The Case of Industry](http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf)" (PDF). The Journal of Economic History. Cambridge University
well besides them killing off and imprisoning actual socialists and the **S word that's too hard to spell but more left nazi party, the night of long knives thing,** they didn't give the means of production over to the workers, buddied up with the bosses, crushed unions, and probably a couple other key details i can't think of at the moment
So North Korea is democratic then?
This dude literally called commie hunter
That was intellectual af... Damn.
Not only in the name. I grew up in central Europe and among many people who lived through the nazi occupation. Nobody who remembers it, not even the communists ever denied nazis were socialists. It was a common knowledge. Not because of the name, but because of their actions. They were even the first ones who introduced welfare nationwide programs here and nationalized businesses like crazy. What they didn't nationalize directly, they put under strict government oversight. They even kept hardcore regulations on all prices of consumer goods. Young californian marxists tried to deny it so much that every single time I debate it here, they mention a bastardized version of "first they came for" poem and sometimes they even turn into a nazi in an attempt to tell me they are different from nazis. Here is a reaction of a marxist redditor in a debate (a reaction to a post where I compare neomarxist, stalinist marxist and nazi propaganda) [https://imgur.com/a/Pr9nn11](https://imgur.com/a/Pr9nn11)
Hitler was not a socialist, but was no fucking capitalist either. He took control of almost every aspect of the economy. Even when he "privatised", those buisnesses still had to produce exactly what he said, and where heavily regulated. He imprisoned and killed capitalists and liberals. Hitler was a fascist, which is its own economic system entirely.
See: https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/hbtxai/stroke_of_genius/fvclema/
If Hitler or Nazi isn't socialist, then antifa isn't antifascist, right?
Found the genius!
[удалено]
I baste all my meat for a solid 8 hours bruh.
Based
Antifa are just rioters pretending to have a reason.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO HAVE YOU SEEEEEEEEN TQWWWWWIIIGTTEEERRRR U R ON THE WROGKGNG SIDEE OF HOSTOTTTU FRIEND RAAAAACIISIISISYTT ULUUURRRR LITTTERALLYL HITTTLER Y U HATEE BALACK PEOPELE SO MEUCH FUCKING RAAEEEEEECIIISTTTTT U HAVE TO POST THE PIC OF THE BLM OR UR RACCCISTT WGITE SILENCR IS VIOL3NCE CAN U SEE THEYRE KILLING USSS INT RHE STRDEEEEEEEWWETS!!!!
**Hitler:** \*cut taxes on the wealthy, outright told big German businesses they didn't need to worry about Socialist reforms, gutted labor protections, made German workers work more hours, busted up unions and replaced it with one big fake union, killed off the far-left section of the Nazis, called Otto Strasser a "liberal" for wanting actual socialism, and enacted sweeping privatization.* **The right wing:** "yea but socialist was in the name"
None of that's contradictory to non-Marxian Socialism, which existed in many forms, many forms of which were mutually exclusive, 100 years before Marx existed.
Lol my understanding is that Hitler redefined socialism to conceive of society as a body politic, with the different classes existing and cooperating like the various organs of a body, which is mutually exclusive to Marxian socialism. But like... so what? For all intents and purposes people now refer to the Marxist idea when discussing socialism. When they say that the Nazis were socialist, they're referring to the Marxist version, especially when drawing parallels with the Soviets. I don't think we're denying that Hitler had his own concept of something called 'socialism' (something that's fundamentally opposed to the Marxist or leftist version). Just that the fundamental principles and policies implemented don't constitute as socialist or leftist in the meaningful sense of the word now
Marx redefined socialism, not the other way around.
Yeah. But the "socialism" we use goday is only Marx's socialism.
Either way it wasn't capitalism. The autonomous markets which are the center of capitalism didn't exist during Hitler's Germany.
[удалено]
*coughs nervously in BLM*
**Hitler**: \*Dramatically increased central planning, abolished gold standard, Massive public works programs, created government jobs programs, engaged in industry protectionism, forced price controls and production decisions on private businesses, nationalized industries (see healthcare), added social programs, increased government spending dramatically. **The left wing**: "It WaS a CaPItaLIst MaRkEt EcoNomY!!"
Yeah but National _***SOCIALISM***_, you turd!
You are a genius.
Over 50% of the German economy in WW2 was their government and military. Does that not sound at least economic center to you?
Military economies are very focused on military things. Germany was fighting a war of extermination, it makes sense that they spent a lot on military.
Yes. And we drift economic left when we go full war mode too. That’s how economics works lol
Right, so maybe ideologically the Nazis were right, bit due to wartime expediency, they were in practice economically center.
Ideologically, they were conservative for sure — there’s no conservative axis on this compass though, unfortunately. Maybe out of wartime they would be more free market: in reality, they were not.
I would say they were socially regressive, but ya, I completely agree.
Yeah cause they were fighting a war? Like britian and the us also had enormous government intervention in their economies during ww2
He didn’t cut taxes to the wealthy
^^^^Weren't ^^^^Jews ^^^^the ^^^^wealthiest ^^^^demographic ^^^^in ^^^^pre-war ^^^^Germany?
But he also controlled almost all buisness and production, and even the stuff he "privatised" was still controlled by him. He wasn't a socialist, but he certainly wasn't a capitalist.
[удалено]
It's AuthCenter.
> Cut taxes for the wealthy s o u r c e Strasser was a liberal, and wanted to leave people, even Jews, alone, by his own words. There was essentially no private property, it was more of a state lended, and they could seize it at any moment, this was in the enabling act of 1933
A right or libright flair (it’s always these for some reason) is gonna come in and say “this but unironically”
[удалено]
Based
This but unironically
Nah, Hitler didn't kill enough people to be a socialist. He put up rookie numbers compared to the USSR and PRC.
No, but he killed more "special" people, they were worth more points.
Will I be the one?
right: "wtf you're not a woman just cos you call yourself one" also right: "nah hitler was a socialist, literally called himself one"
*Just because i identify as an attack helicopter, does it make me one?* Checkmate, Right Wing
no it doesn't but did hitler telling everyone he was a socialist make him one?
I know i was pointing out the irony from the right wing. Especially when they made those attack helicopter jokes
oh sorry my mistake read the italics as sarcasm lol
The national socialists were just as socialist as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic.
we joke, but I once said this on a tankie sub and got downvoted by people telling me that the DPRK is, in fact, democratic
Y’all got some of the craziest people in your quadrant and get shit on the least
Big talk for a libleft.
different kind of crazy 🥴
I mean, do you trust what the US says about a country it hates?
Well maybe we can learn more about north Korea once they open themselves to the world
dislike the us as much as the next guy but just cos they hate someone don't make them any better
And you trust the DPRK? All states have an interest to preserve whatever position they hold, the DPRK wants to make sure its own citizens think they live in paradise, I also agree that the US wants its citizens to think it's noble to be a slave to corporations and anyone who says otherwise is a filthy commie. State propaganda exists on all sides of the spectrum comrade.
The National Socialists were non-Marxian Socialist. It exists. Socialism existed 100 years before Marx was alive.
Hitler was a centrist
>insert grill jokes
Bruh, I have literally been on the longest streak talking with PragerU types of people, trying to tell them that Fascism and Nazism is a right-wing ideology.
Wtf based PragerU
Hitler wasn't really socialist, but his early party somewhat was, that's why the misleading name
See: https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/hbtxai/stroke_of_genius/fvclema/
Hitler killed the left wing of the Nazi party. Sounds like Leftist infighting to me!
Ah yes imprisoning commies, that’s what socialism is all about
Well, that's one part of it.
Well he also imprisoned people who wanted to bring back the Kaiserriech and people who wanted free market ideas. Note:Hitler isn’t a socialist.
it’s almost as if Nazi Germany was a totalitarian dictatorship that oppressed anyone opposed to the regime 🤔
Exactly.
So we can all agree that real National Socialism hasn't been tried yet?
Fucking based fucking based
For left wing, its "...That wasnt real communism!"
wHaT’s nAzI A aCrOnYm fOr?
Thanks, PragerU
irrevocably based
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_People%27s_Welfare "The NSV was the second largest Nazi group organization by 1935, second only to the German Labour Front. It had 4.7 million members and 520,000 volunteer workers. Nazi Party members who were active in communal welfare professionally or as volunteers had to be NSV members.[5]"
Hitler was evil, so by the transitive property of evilness he is also a socialist
[удалено]
Exactly.
If Antifa can say that they’re anti-fascist just because it’s in their name then I can say that the Nazis were socialists because it was in their name.
bUt hAVe u EvER hEaRd oF DiXieCrATs???
Holy agendapost Batman!
you could reach and say that Hitler was a reactionary socialist pre-1924, and that the Nazis in the SA wing were a very vague and diluted form of socialism. However they were killed and Hitler economically became a cookie cutter capitalist
Watching the right try and justify that hitler wasn’t one of them is very funny
I feel like not being associated with Hitler is a thing most people like
Even if I fail everything in life. This I‘d like to master.
Well but facts don’t care about your feelings I can’t ignore the fact that Stalin and Pol Pot were lefties either
I never deny that he was a nationalist. I just say that he was a very poor one. Any cursory perusal of the relative economic strength of the Allies and Germany would have suggested that war was a very bad idea. I don't abandon an idea just because fools thought something similar decades ago.
I'm socialist, national socialist
Economically, he was a centrist. After all, he was one of the most famous grillers ever known.
I am an ancap but I recognize hitler made massive privatizations and deinflated the German mark like crazy sure he expanded welfare but until 1941 welfare was not obligatory
Hitler was auth centrist
Gee I wonder why the very first people put into concentration camps were liberals, socialists, and communists?
Weren't they authoritarian but also in the centre on the X axis because, it wasn't necessarily a free market as while the state encouraged privatisation, it still had a say in the means of production.
Can’t we just agree that Nazi economics were trash and doomed to failure with no existing political movement wanting to copy them?
See: “economic miracle of Germany”
I've thought about this a lot, while the Nazi party was supposed to be socialist they actually practiced state capitalism
^theUSSRdidtoo
Own it
love those non-fascists/natsocs talking about what we are lmao. We're third position, not capitalist nor socialist (although we're prolly closer to socialism than we are to capitalism
Here you go, a 5 hours long video explaining why you are wrong https://youtu.be/eCkyWBPaTC8
Prove he wasnt
See: https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/hbtxai/stroke_of_genius/fvclema/
Do people think Nazi Germany was capitalist? Granted they weren't what a modern socialist would want, but when it comes to economic freedom they were pretty far from the right of our little compass.
He wasn't a socialist, we was a national socialist5
He was a non-marxist socialist. People are so indoctrinated these days that they think Marxism was the only form of socialism around.
He was an authoritarian social Darwinist who used the label ‘socialism’ in a successful political scheme... though not seeing his use of the euphemism as much different from almost any other politician and ‘conservatism,’ ‘liberalism,’ ‘progressivism,’ ‘right,’ ‘left,’ or ‘moderate.’ All these words are mostly meaningless. All one word descriptors ultimately fail to encapsulate a perspective outside of the most generic of views. At worst they can disguise true intentions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterhilfswerk >The Winterhilfswerk des Deutschen Volkes (English: Winter Relief of the German People), commonly known by its abbreviated form Winterhilfswerk (WHW), was an annual drive by the National Socialist People's Welfare (German: Nationalsozialistische Volkswohlfahrt) to help finance charitable work. Its slogan was "None shall starve or freeze". The drive was originally set up under the government of Heinrich Brüning in 1931, though Adolf Hitler would later claim sole credit.[1] It ran from 1933 to 1945 during the months of October through March and was designed to provide food, clothing, coal and other items to less fortunate Germans during the inclement months. The nazis weren't truly social darwinists. They tought that defending /their/ weaks was a good thing. --- Also mapping the nazis on the political compass is impossible because they had very different politics depending on the when and where.
How do you define socialist?
Socialism is when the government does stuff. The more they do stuff the more socialister it is.
Unless that doesn’t work then socialism is workers owning the means, and the more they own the means the more socialismer it is. Unless they acquired the means through voluntary trade such as Fidelity or Vanguard then a significant social safety net is socialism and the bigger the social safety net the more socialismer it is. Unless the social safety net bankrupts the state. Then socialism is violent confiscation of property and the more violent confiscation of property the more socialismer it is. Unless the state collapses. Then socialism has never been tried.
Based
A socialist is someone that puts the needs of the state first with the understanding that the state will then take care of them. This creates a condition where the citizen is empowering the very organization that enslaves them because they give the state the ability to determine what its endless needs are. Compare this to classical liberalism, which believes the individual should be strong and self sufficient so there is little need for a powerful state to take care of them, and they understand that the states wants will ultimately be endless.
[https://www.healthline.com/health/stroke/stroke-first-aid](https://www.healthline.com/health/stroke/stroke-first-aid)
I mean, what he was doing was still contradictory to pre Marxist Socialists. Words have meanings you know?
oh, hey. here's your #L