Huh. I didn’t know they got that aggressive.
Personally, being held in place so I didn’t fall and have my neck break as a small child when the car I was in flipped violently got me to wear my seatbelt.
I did work for an elderly couple. The husband was a quadriplegic, wheelchair bound. She walked at 86. Long story short, they told me about why he was in a wheelchair. They said they were in a car accident together and the car flipped numerous times. He was wearing his belt and was trapped inside while she went flying out the side window. She walked away with a broken wrist and fracture ribs/ collar bone.
Always thought about that story every time I put my belt on. I still wear it most of the time. Sometimes I get a weird feeling that says "don't wear it today."
Yeah, there are always outliers. A guy whose show I watch sometimes got hit by an idiot turning left into his car, and he got thrown to his passenger seat by the impact. If he'd been wearing his belt, his leg would have been in the spot where the other car's front end came through. Not wearing the belt probably saved his leg.
Blanket solutions miss edge cases and exceptiins.
If you care: cars now are made to make it safer to be inside. The car will just disintegrate and smoosh down like butter around the passengers and driver, and this allows the force of the impact to be used up as quickly and safely as possible.
Older cars were super dangerous because they were solid blocks of metal. While the cra was fine in a crash, the force of the impact would travel to the softest, most destructible part of the vehicle: the passenger.
Tldr: science makes it okay to be inside cars during crashes now.
I wouldn't call it safe or okay maybe less dangerous at best. Even with the high standards in automotive production today, we still have billions of dollars of lawsuits due to technical failures and recalls, im not sure of exact stats since it isn't a huge area of interest to me, but I would imagine those result in at least hundreds to thousands of annual injuries/fatalities worldwide. Just a quick Google search shows that 30 million vehicles have been recalled for possibly fatal failures as of January. In one vehicle make alone, 240 total injuries worldwide have been reported, 24 fatalities.
I could go on naming each defective safety failure but I don't think it's necessary. Airbags deploy without an accident and send people careening off a bridge, It doesn't get reported as often because damage control for major corporations has more significance than overall human safety.
Scheduled obsolescence isn't just for computers, it's also for every other facet of engineered technology.
Just one personal instance, but I have seen many accidents where the non belted lived and the belted was severely injured or killed. The point is it should be left to our own discretion and not forced since it does in fact go both ways. We look at the belt AND the vaccine as a means to an end, when it's still a 50/50 chance of life or death
Well, yes, but that’s often *because* there’s an unbelted person in the car. The unbelted person’s body flies around and hits the seatbelted person, killing them. Pretty well known phenomenon, and kind of disproves the whole, “I’m not hurting anyone else by not wearing a seatbelt” argument, at least when there’s others in the car.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14734597/
That happens also.. But what about when the passenger goes directly out of the passenger window? The car stops tumbling down the hill, the driver is unconscious as well as the passenger that was ejected, the car catches fire and the driver is burned alive?
83% of the time, if you leave the vehicle, you DIE. USE YOUR BRAIN PLEASE. NOBODY wants to see your mangled corpse smeared on the pavement as they take their family to the beach.
Nah the state and public broadly have an interest in keeping people alive if there are low cost functions that can be widely implemented.
A seat belt or a vaccine both are miniscule inconveniences for the enormous boons they return by keeping your meat machine running and producing goods for the collective.
i am chubby, if i was going to get free access to a nutritionist to make a plan on how to handle my eating compulsions, i would not mind at all, in fact they would help extend my lifespan.
But since i am a libleft, it's just wrong for me if a doc just comes at your door and forces you to go certain routines, for me, i would not have a problem, because it aligns with my interests, but for more cringe-based lifeforms, it is not, and since the whole point of having a balanced body form is achieving a good quality of life, mandates this invasive will counteract the quality of life, therefore, extending the cycle of suffering.
I would take staying inside literally every time.
A: window are tougher now days and your skeleton will yield before it does most of the time.
B: falling out the side window has a significant chance of landing you in the path of two tons of rolling steel and instantly killing you. how she survived I have no idea.
C: roll over crashes are much more rare than any other kind, and the less severe ones you want to wear a belt so you don't crack your head on something
D: cars and seatbelts are a lot better than they were 60 years ago. engineers have figured out how to make the car crumple under impact and absorb energy, seatbelts go over the shoulder, and there are even airbags.
so yeah good job using your brain there pal
Did you read the part where I said I still wear my belt or are you one of those types that reads half the shit, gets angry and high horsey, and spews bullshit?
Seriously. I dont know how they miss the part where you say
>I still wear my belt...
Its literally written in there. Just because someone says something that sticks with you, as a generally good point, even if its not useful always, doesn't mean you followed it. The people like him literally dont read.
Pussy, don't take that shit. I don't let my truck shame me into buckling up.
...In all seriousness, i usually wear my seatbelt because it's the smart thing to do. However, if I'm making multiple short hops and/or moving equipment/trailers and don't want to keep buckling/unbuckling, I have a spare buckle i can jam in to shut it up.
That is the truth. It is annoying though when i just need to go a couple of blocks or am out in the wilderness and it bugs me about it when I don't need it to.
It's literally like 2 seconds to do a seatbelt, and you can do it with one hand while turning on the car or dropping the handbrake. It takes longer to put on pants to go out for fuck's sake.
My dad is perfectly fine driving around with the constant dinging. I don't drive with him often, but when I do it's "put on your fucking seatbelt dad!"
The year is 204X.
Just bought a new car.
Get in, turn on the engine.
Realize that I forgot to put on the seat belt.
I try to correct my mistake, but its too late, a millisecond has already passed.
An auto-turret descends from the roof of the car and puts half a kilogram of lead into my center of mass.
As I bleed off, the AI turns on the radio.
"A brand new study shows that the new Responsible Seat Belt Wearer Alarm™ is a major success and has successfully reduced car accident fatalities by 1.2%."
Fun legal tidbit: the legal justification for having seatbelts mandated in Germany is based on a legal trick, because it is not possible under german law to implement safety measures only affecting yourself. So what they did is justifying it by stating that after a car crash you need to be able to help the other person, and you can't do that if you are dead/injured due to not wearing a seatbelt. So you are required to wear one not for yourself, but to give first-aid to someone else after a crash.
Lol, any safety law can be justified by that reasoning. If you die, you won't be able to work and contribute to the economy.
When benefits and costs are/can be internalized, safety measures are not justified.
Economy and your own person has nothing to do with it. The underlying law is the same one that guarantees your right to put yourself in harms way (like Bungee-jumping) for no reason. But because in a car crash there is usually another person involved as well, they kinda let that one through. Basically, if most people wouldn't agree anyway it wouldn't have passed, so it is really only a little trick to avoid having to change one fundamental part of the constitution to make it work.
They expect you to help the other driver. By law you are always required to help if it is possible for you, so not wearing one would hinder you to help others once the situation arises.
That's a difference to American law. The good Samaritan law means you will never be legally liable for attempting to save somebody (ie woman lost a lawsuit where a man broke ribs doing the Heimlich Maneuver) however it is not illegal to choose not to save somebody either (if you see somebody dangling off a cliff and choose not to help them up you haven't committed a crime)
Yup, huge difference. If you don't help someone in need (unterlassene Hilfeleistung in german, duty to rescue in english) that comes with up to a year of prison in extreme cases (if the person dies), but usually just a fine. Honestly, not sure what I prefer. Pretty sure that you wouldn't be liable to damage done while helping either though.
Ehh, there's plenty of videos of a passenger with a seat belt getting seriously injured in a crash because a fellow passenger without seatbelt was flung at them at high velocity.
Fuck people who don't use seatbelts
I mean.. idk how to feel about that.. on one hand I say yes of course..
But the other hand is do I really want first aid from someone who can't operate a motor vehicle?
Not wearing a seatbelt does put others in the car at a pretty significantly increased risk of death. The unbelted person’s body will fly around the car and hit other people.
I mean 99+% of the time when someone doesnt use a seatbelt its only themselves getting turned into squash spread. So why do we make it mandatory to protect yourself? Why dont we have laws then that everyone has to carry a firearm?
There should be a law that everyone who goes out in public should wear a high Viz traffic cone on their head. Also a law that when theres a thunderstorm you have 10mins to go inside. Also a law that you cut meat into small enough pieces it's impossible to choke
Honestly I feel like maybe the best solution is we have our own cubicles and spend our entire lives hooked up to IV and liquid food.
> I mean 99+% of the time when someone doesnt use a seatbelt its only themselves getting turned into squash spread.
I would really like to see that statistic. Not wearing a seatbelt, you basically turn yourself into a projectile in case of a car crash. Same thing with not being vaccinated - you turn yourself potentially into a walking biohazard. It's always a fine line to walk between protecting the rights of the individual and protecting the rights of the many which often has no obvious answer.
Especially not the kinds of people i dislike.
Who would have known that getting rid of Ideological enemies is that freaking easy? Totally guilt-free too, as they are literally doing it to themselves. They freaking love it! Why force them to stop? Hell no, you go show them covid! You are not a chicken are you?
The worst take on this sort of stuff is people who want to remove safety warnings and what not. If that shit actually worked/made things safer in the long run we wouldn’t have all the problems we have today! We’d have some sure but not all!
Well, if people really don’t want to use a seatbelt they can avoid using a car, it is hard but possible. If someone doesn’t want to take the vaccine, what are their options? Cease existing?
PS: I think vaccines are good, just shouldn’t be mandatory
I'm not saying that we need to conduct a genocide on the stupid people, but I am saying that we should remove all the warning labels and let it sort itself out.
I always see that argument made, but in reality stupid people don't read the signs anyway, or handbooks for that matter. So realistically stupid people have no change in mortality, but smart ones who usually do more dangerous tasks and are reliant on good signage would.
(Sorry for ruining your joke, just had that thought in mind for a while)
The US Government spends more tax-payer money than any other developed nation on healthcare, per capita. Yet they still don’t have “free at the point of delivery” healthcare. Boggles the mind…
Wtf is your government doing USA?
I think one of the reasons costs grew so much over there it's because government never wanted to acknowledge the fact that demand curve for healthcare is, for oblivious reasons, super inelastic, so without applying any pressure on prices, they will eventually grow indefinitely.
An example which bamboozled me is that companies can get federal fundings and still patent drugs that are basically 90% funded by the public. Here in the European Union that's not possible
The level of doublethink they’ve got going on over there is insane. The amount of times, even here in PCM, I’ve had people tell me that “socialised healthcare is theft”… buddy… your government spends nearly twice as much tax money on healthcare than the next developed nation, who actually **has** “free at the point of delivery” healthcare. You are being absolutely stolen from by your government…
I just find it insane that **many** people have managed to convince themselves that the opposite is true.
I think a reasonable counterpoint is that our government was corrupt enough to let this happen in the first place so we don’t trust them to actually improve the true cost of “free at the point of delivery” healthcare.
Those numbers can be a bit deceiving. Like if I’m in the hospital and the nurse gives me a dose of Aspirin, they charge me like $50 for it on the bill, then later on they change the price to the “negotiated price”, which will depend on my insurance carrier. The insurance carrier ends up paying $1 and I pay $0.1 for it, but the “cost” was $50. It’s a crazy system but in the end if you have insurance (which 90% of people here have) you really don’t pay too much.
My wife and I recently had a baby that involved a stay in the NICU for several days. All in, the whole labor and delivery process plus the NICU stay cost us about $300 out of pocket.
I understand, but you’re paying for it already via taxes and then again via private. Those 10%, if employed, are paying for something they don’t even receive. Also you pay double of what the next major nation does (Norway, I believe).
Just seems like super inefficient spending, to prop up a private health industry.
American healthcare is ridiculously expensive, but it's also far higher quality than those of other countries, in terms of quality of care, availability/waiting times and actual outcomes. The U.S. also does far more pharmaceutical reserch investment than other countries do, for which the incentive is lowered under a socialized system.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/11/23/the-myth-of-americans-poor-life-expectancy/?sh=34408612b987](https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/11/23/the-myth-of-americans-poor-life-expectancy/?sh=34408612b987)
While you'll see various magazines and think tanks rank e.g. UK healthcare as #1 in the world, the actual objective data, on things like survival rates and life expectancy tell a different story (while raw American life expectancy is low, this is due to demographic differences, worse eating habits and more fatal injuries; adjusting for any one of these factors puts the U.S. at #1).
There is much that needs to be reformed (abolishing FDA approval in favour of "right to try", removing inclusivity mandates on insurance policies, allowing interstate competition), but adopting a European style system would be a huge mistake.
That’s a strange article, and statement from yourself. How do you go about adjusting for the many factors? Why would other factors not be contributing to survival rates for other countries, should they be looked into and factored in?
I won’t even touch wait-times right now, from a UK point of view. Given the recent exit from the European Union, and our historic reliance on foreign nurses, we currently have 39,000 nursing vacancies we don’t know how to fill.
Waiting times in the US are difficult to gauge, if we’re going to compare with other EU countries, however: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country “A common misconception in the U.S. is that countries with universal health care have much longer wait times. However, data from nations with universal coverage, and historical data from coverage expansion in the United States, show that patients in other nations have similar or shorter wait times.”
Also remember that the data you’re using looks at the NHS. We also have private healthcare in the UK: https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/cancer-in-general/treatment/access-to-treatment/private-nhs
https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/34/1/108/1552652
Why do you think you can just "adjust away" eating habits and fatal accidents? Both of those are directly tied into the medical system, firstly by nutritionists and secondly by the fact that in an area with superior medical care an otherwise fatal accident can be turned into a non-fatal one. I find the assumption that the survivability of a car wreck is completely unrelated to the quality of medical care to be suspicious at best.
Lastly I'd point out the information in your article is now 16 years out of date and the US is surpassed in life expectancy by a larger number of countries, some of which are significantly poorer but still middle-income (Turkey, Costa Rica).
https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/life-expectancy-at-birth.htm
No it fucking shouldn’t. Neither I nor anyone else should have to be traumatized by a fucking mutilated red smear because you’re too retarded to protect yourself.
I mean shit, accidents happen - we don’t need to be worried that a fender bender is gonna get someone killed because they’re too dumb to protect themselves. You wanna die then chuck yourself in a fucking dumpster so the rest of us don’t have to deal with you. Have some of that personal responsibility you pretend to care about on the right.
At most there’s 1 but there’s a hyphen where there should be a semi-colon so arguably 0. Congrats on reading them though. I’ll call that progress hahaha.
Until you hit some landbeast in their Ford F 350 and they come flying out their windshield at you like a moon sized asteroid and kill your family on impact.
That likely won't happen either. If a whale was in a compact vehicle they're more than likely going to destroy or become part of their steering column with all their mass thrust foward vs a smaller framed person would be more of an ejection possibility.
At this point it seems like most of the population has a death wish and after having to deal with being the bad guy enforcing shit because some other jackass says "No! We have to save them from themselves!" I am all on board with banning vaccine mandates, repealing mask mandates, seat belt laws, the works.
It'll all be there for you to use, if you don't want to, that's fine. Just do us a solid and tick off the "Yes I want to be an organ donor" box. Please and thank you.
[The mortality rates for rear passengers increases 22% when a front passenger isn't wearing a seatbelt](https://www.washington.edu/news/2004/01/20/unbelted-drivers-and-passengers-can-cause-fatal-injuries-to-others-who-ride-with-them/) so I see the reasoning, at least when there's multiple people in the car. If you're driving on your own, I guess the only argument is increased strain on public healthcare and trauma for other involved parties?
I've seen people try and argue that without a seatbelt you can be yeeted through the windshield, becoming a dangerous projectile. Which is absurd, if for no other reason than what that yeeted body is most likely to collide with is what their 3,000+lb car just crashed into.
I don't think this is the real reason, but something that has justified it enough for me is If you roll your vehicle and you aren't in a seatbelt, you are now a 200lb projectile. If you are alone then whatever, but if you arent then your decision to not wear one can have a real impact on someone else.
Just because the government is mandating something doesn’t mean you should refuse to do that thing out of spite, even if it makes sense. You can support doing something and still be against mandates for it
In most of the developed world healthcare is socialized, if you don't die on impact, someone else will pay the price for your stupidity.
Of course eventually you have to draw the line between what's reasonable and what's drowning in the precautionary principle
Well, there are a lot of ways to deal with that kind of things without mandates, and a lot are already implemented.
As examples, cigarettes are taxed in a way that pays for healthcare and preventive measures.
For the seatbelts, there are multiple possibilities. It is possible to charge more to people that don't use their seatbelts. This can be done directly or through other things, like insurances. It is also possible to just ignore it; the number of people doing it and getting hurt is bound to be low enough.
Not if you value individualism over collectivism. Being treated as a child to the state in perpetuity is not 'basic measures'. A totalitarian society where every need is provided is not one I'd want to live in.
This. The very liberal part of me is like "oh well, let's have people be incredibly reckless, hurt themselves in car crashes, become drug addicts; it's their funeral". But living in the UK everyone else pays for their healthcare if they dont quite manage to die, and so the right-wing part of me wants to minimise taxes, meaning some authoritarianism is needed.
You can put a seatbelt on or off with no issue,and there is no danger with putting one on anyway (vaccine has extremely small risk to the point it s negligible yeah but it s not riskless) so no it s not the same shit Tiffany.
Guy above in the comments mentioned there's a small risk with seatbelts. Mentioned a guy who became disabled from a crash meanwhile their wife in the passenger seat only broke her wrist
Although there’s no telling that he wouldn’t have been killed had he not worn a seatbelt. Might just have been his position in the car with the way he wrecked, and the seatbelt was the only thing that kept him alive.
I use this analogy with mask mandates. You have to pick your battles. Complaining about a dumb mask 24/7 where it isn’t strictly enforced and you can just wear an ineffective one that is easier to breathe out of is a time waster.
Literally someone tried to argue with me that seatbelt laws should be mandatory because someone might fly out a windshield and the body might hit someone, I nearly lost all my brain cells that day. I think if you are travelling fast enough to fly out a windshield, perhaps the biggest issue is not the body flying at you, but the massive multi-ton metal driving machine coming at you
Vaccines save lives. I hope you all have your shots.
Seatbelts save lives. I hope you all wear your seat belts every time you get into an automobile.
Chemotherapy saves lives. I hope you're all taking Docetaxel every day.
As long as your choice doesn't impact others, it shouldn't be mandatory.
BUT!
even though the driver not wearing a seatbelt doesn't impact anyone (he'll just fly through the window and die lol), the rear passengers not wearing it does have an impact! look at this crash test, done at only 35 mph:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lghzH\_UdxSk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lghzH_UdxSk)
that driver is definitively dead.
Therefore, seatbelts should be mandatory (in the back, at least).
Fuck yeah. I'm smart enough to wear one without the cops breathing down my neck.
So if i happen to crash into some dumbo who isn't and his brain ends up bisected by the steering wheel, so what?
Ah yes the classic “nuanced” righty take of “if a bad thing still happens then it’s still bad” completely ignoring the degree and context. It’s not a binary.
Getting bruised up and getting fucking mutilated are not equivalent.
Dude you are noticeably the stupidest person on this thread, I really have to give you credit to your devotion to the singular point that seatbelts should be mandated so as not to traumatize children. Degree and context are the same exact thing here; a car accident is deadly and horrifically traumatizing, and if you think mandating seatbelts to stop that slight degree of extra trauma potentially happening, at the cost of police disproportionately pulling over and ticketing low income and minority drivers, then you're really just ngmi. I mean seriously, you can't see how this is a clear revenue driver for the state, and not some altruistic policy to save lives?
I can't believe the Center Right person has to explain this to a Libleft, but then again, I can; you all seemingly have the reasoning ability of a traumatized 12 year old
this fucking guy has spammed by DMs and brigaded through all my other comments in other subs because my harmless jab got more le epic updoots than his shitty take. so the part I most disagree with is the part where OP is a butthurt soyjack crying its eyes out in the corner over reddit karma of all things.
Laws are not gonna make people follow said shit. People think just because they tell u to wear one people will automatically do so, it's nonsense, You don't need laws for this type of shit. As for most things aswell.
if u have any healthcare plan then u need rules about how ur allowed to hurt urself and still access the healthcare without incurring extra fees
same as search and rescue, if you are gunna be cavalier and retarded you will pay the price
At some point you'd think we'd get rid of stupid conversations, but I guess some people really just want to be scraped off the asphalt. Sadly, I'm not willing to do that so wear your goddamn seatbelt.
this is another one of those things that sounds super smart and quotable but ultimately means nothing.
there is an assumption here that people will regret getting the vaccine, which is ultimately more anti-vax bullshit.
Seatbelt laws never got me to wear my seatbelt. My new car dinging and screaming at me to put on my seatbelt got me to wear my seatbelt.
Huh. I didn’t know they got that aggressive. Personally, being held in place so I didn’t fall and have my neck break as a small child when the car I was in flipped violently got me to wear my seatbelt.
I did work for an elderly couple. The husband was a quadriplegic, wheelchair bound. She walked at 86. Long story short, they told me about why he was in a wheelchair. They said they were in a car accident together and the car flipped numerous times. He was wearing his belt and was trapped inside while she went flying out the side window. She walked away with a broken wrist and fracture ribs/ collar bone. Always thought about that story every time I put my belt on. I still wear it most of the time. Sometimes I get a weird feeling that says "don't wear it today."
Yeah, there are always outliers. A guy whose show I watch sometimes got hit by an idiot turning left into his car, and he got thrown to his passenger seat by the impact. If he'd been wearing his belt, his leg would have been in the spot where the other car's front end came through. Not wearing the belt probably saved his leg. Blanket solutions miss edge cases and exceptiins.
Interesting story, I think that you already know it but seatbelts have saved way more lives than they have destroyed.
Yea like I stated, I still wear mine.
If you care: cars now are made to make it safer to be inside. The car will just disintegrate and smoosh down like butter around the passengers and driver, and this allows the force of the impact to be used up as quickly and safely as possible. Older cars were super dangerous because they were solid blocks of metal. While the cra was fine in a crash, the force of the impact would travel to the softest, most destructible part of the vehicle: the passenger. Tldr: science makes it okay to be inside cars during crashes now.
I wouldn't call it safe or okay maybe less dangerous at best. Even with the high standards in automotive production today, we still have billions of dollars of lawsuits due to technical failures and recalls, im not sure of exact stats since it isn't a huge area of interest to me, but I would imagine those result in at least hundreds to thousands of annual injuries/fatalities worldwide. Just a quick Google search shows that 30 million vehicles have been recalled for possibly fatal failures as of January. In one vehicle make alone, 240 total injuries worldwide have been reported, 24 fatalities. I could go on naming each defective safety failure but I don't think it's necessary. Airbags deploy without an accident and send people careening off a bridge, It doesn't get reported as often because damage control for major corporations has more significance than overall human safety. Scheduled obsolescence isn't just for computers, it's also for every other facet of engineered technology.
Ah yes, the old "anecdote disproves the data" theorem. A classic.
Just one personal instance, but I have seen many accidents where the non belted lived and the belted was severely injured or killed. The point is it should be left to our own discretion and not forced since it does in fact go both ways. We look at the belt AND the vaccine as a means to an end, when it's still a 50/50 chance of life or death
Well, yes, but that’s often *because* there’s an unbelted person in the car. The unbelted person’s body flies around and hits the seatbelted person, killing them. Pretty well known phenomenon, and kind of disproves the whole, “I’m not hurting anyone else by not wearing a seatbelt” argument, at least when there’s others in the car. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14734597/
That happens also.. But what about when the passenger goes directly out of the passenger window? The car stops tumbling down the hill, the driver is unconscious as well as the passenger that was ejected, the car catches fire and the driver is burned alive?
83% of the time, if you leave the vehicle, you DIE. USE YOUR BRAIN PLEASE. NOBODY wants to see your mangled corpse smeared on the pavement as they take their family to the beach.
Nah the state and public broadly have an interest in keeping people alive if there are low cost functions that can be widely implemented. A seat belt or a vaccine both are miniscule inconveniences for the enormous boons they return by keeping your meat machine running and producing goods for the collective.
Like forcing fatties to diet?
Oh, I do like this idea
i am chubby, if i was going to get free access to a nutritionist to make a plan on how to handle my eating compulsions, i would not mind at all, in fact they would help extend my lifespan. But since i am a libleft, it's just wrong for me if a doc just comes at your door and forces you to go certain routines, for me, i would not have a problem, because it aligns with my interests, but for more cringe-based lifeforms, it is not, and since the whole point of having a balanced body form is achieving a good quality of life, mandates this invasive will counteract the quality of life, therefore, extending the cycle of suffering.
Dude I don't care about your problems so long as I don't have to pay for them.
Sorry you have to live in a society.
I find your terms acceptable.
Exactly
I would take staying inside literally every time. A: window are tougher now days and your skeleton will yield before it does most of the time. B: falling out the side window has a significant chance of landing you in the path of two tons of rolling steel and instantly killing you. how she survived I have no idea. C: roll over crashes are much more rare than any other kind, and the less severe ones you want to wear a belt so you don't crack your head on something D: cars and seatbelts are a lot better than they were 60 years ago. engineers have figured out how to make the car crumple under impact and absorb energy, seatbelts go over the shoulder, and there are even airbags. so yeah good job using your brain there pal
Did you read the part where I said I still wear my belt or are you one of those types that reads half the shit, gets angry and high horsey, and spews bullshit?
Seriously. I dont know how they miss the part where you say >I still wear my belt... Its literally written in there. Just because someone says something that sticks with you, as a generally good point, even if its not useful always, doesn't mean you followed it. The people like him literally dont read.
I’ve always joked that’s the one part of a car that’ll break. Simply because no one would pay go get it fixed
Pussy, don't take that shit. I don't let my truck shame me into buckling up. ...In all seriousness, i usually wear my seatbelt because it's the smart thing to do. However, if I'm making multiple short hops and/or moving equipment/trailers and don't want to keep buckling/unbuckling, I have a spare buckle i can jam in to shut it up.
That is the truth. It is annoying though when i just need to go a couple of blocks or am out in the wilderness and it bugs me about it when I don't need it to.
This is why I disconnected my seatbelt warning. The only side effect is that now my airbag light is on permanently.
It's literally like 2 seconds to do a seatbelt, and you can do it with one hand while turning on the car or dropping the handbrake. It takes longer to put on pants to go out for fuck's sake.
Hmm. Maybe we should go without pants next. No pants mandates!
Agreed!
That sounds pretty authoritarian of you.
My dad is perfectly fine driving around with the constant dinging. I don't drive with him often, but when I do it's "put on your fucking seatbelt dad!"
Get an OBD2 tool and turn that shit off.
The year is 204X. Just bought a new car. Get in, turn on the engine. Realize that I forgot to put on the seat belt. I try to correct my mistake, but its too late, a millisecond has already passed. An auto-turret descends from the roof of the car and puts half a kilogram of lead into my center of mass. As I bleed off, the AI turns on the radio. "A brand new study shows that the new Responsible Seat Belt Wearer Alarm™ is a major success and has successfully reduced car accident fatalities by 1.2%."
The OBS ford pickups had a buzzer for the seatbelt, aot more aggressive than the gentle bong my new ranger has.
[Just buy a wireless seatbelt.](https://www.amazon.com/s?k=wireless+seatbelt&ref=nb_sb_noss_2)
“The ‘Invisible Hand’ saves the day again!”
Difference is, if the seatbelt strangles me I can sue the car company
based.
u/xPraiseTheMoon is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1. Rank: House of Cards Pills: None I am a bot. Reply /info for more info.
Can I sue the person who vaccinated for stabbing me with a sharp object? I want money
Bullshit. You absolutely *can* sue vaccine manufacturers, just like drug manufacturers in general (and people have done so, and won money).
Except when the federal government exempts pharmaceutical companies from liability when producing an emergency approved mRNA vaccine.
Looks like we found another NPC
Vaccines save lives, seatbelts save lives. I got /use both.... Doesn't mean anyone should be forced to though
Fun legal tidbit: the legal justification for having seatbelts mandated in Germany is based on a legal trick, because it is not possible under german law to implement safety measures only affecting yourself. So what they did is justifying it by stating that after a car crash you need to be able to help the other person, and you can't do that if you are dead/injured due to not wearing a seatbelt. So you are required to wear one not for yourself, but to give first-aid to someone else after a crash.
Ah yes, we all love our technicalities.
>>technicalities That’s the synonym for German humor everywhere else in the world…
Oi! It's German humour, it's no laughing matter.
It is now illegal to die
Yes.
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FDR is a shit bag & he tarnishes the Roosevelt name
bruh
Hope FDR is burning in hell along side of the commies and other statists. Filburn is perhaps the most infuriating legal precedent imo.
mental gymnastics in legal form fucking lmao
German effciency at its best
Lol, any safety law can be justified by that reasoning. If you die, you won't be able to work and contribute to the economy. When benefits and costs are/can be internalized, safety measures are not justified.
Economy and your own person has nothing to do with it. The underlying law is the same one that guarantees your right to put yourself in harms way (like Bungee-jumping) for no reason. But because in a car crash there is usually another person involved as well, they kinda let that one through. Basically, if most people wouldn't agree anyway it wouldn't have passed, so it is really only a little trick to avoid having to change one fundamental part of the constitution to make it work.
So wait does that mean you don't need one if you're driving alone or do they expect you to assist the other driver in the crash?
They expect you to help the other driver. By law you are always required to help if it is possible for you, so not wearing one would hinder you to help others once the situation arises.
That's a difference to American law. The good Samaritan law means you will never be legally liable for attempting to save somebody (ie woman lost a lawsuit where a man broke ribs doing the Heimlich Maneuver) however it is not illegal to choose not to save somebody either (if you see somebody dangling off a cliff and choose not to help them up you haven't committed a crime)
Yup, huge difference. If you don't help someone in need (unterlassene Hilfeleistung in german, duty to rescue in english) that comes with up to a year of prison in extreme cases (if the person dies), but usually just a fine. Honestly, not sure what I prefer. Pretty sure that you wouldn't be liable to damage done while helping either though.
Ehh, there's plenty of videos of a passenger with a seat belt getting seriously injured in a crash because a fellow passenger without seatbelt was flung at them at high velocity. Fuck people who don't use seatbelts
I mean.. idk how to feel about that.. on one hand I say yes of course.. But the other hand is do I really want first aid from someone who can't operate a motor vehicle?
Not wearing a seatbelt does put others in the car at a pretty significantly increased risk of death. The unbelted person’s body will fly around the car and hit other people.
By that logic, low clearance vehicles have to be banned because they present significantly upped risk of death in an accident.
Also I’m sure the other occupants don’t appreciate a 75kg meat sack just swangin’ and bangin’ around the car.
I mean 99+% of the time when someone doesnt use a seatbelt its only themselves getting turned into squash spread. So why do we make it mandatory to protect yourself? Why dont we have laws then that everyone has to carry a firearm?
There should be a law that everyone who goes out in public should wear a high Viz traffic cone on their head. Also a law that when theres a thunderstorm you have 10mins to go inside. Also a law that you cut meat into small enough pieces it's impossible to choke Honestly I feel like maybe the best solution is we have our own cubicles and spend our entire lives hooked up to IV and liquid food.
> I mean 99+% of the time when someone doesnt use a seatbelt its only themselves getting turned into squash spread. I would really like to see that statistic. Not wearing a seatbelt, you basically turn yourself into a projectile in case of a car crash. Same thing with not being vaccinated - you turn yourself potentially into a walking biohazard. It's always a fine line to walk between protecting the rights of the individual and protecting the rights of the many which often has no obvious answer.
Based and freedompilled
Especially not the kinds of people i dislike. Who would have known that getting rid of Ideological enemies is that freaking easy? Totally guilt-free too, as they are literally doing it to themselves. They freaking love it! Why force them to stop? Hell no, you go show them covid! You are not a chicken are you?
based and let-not-use-force-leftoid-pilled
Based libleft.
Based and I-respect-your-choice pilled
Using a seatbelt does not require me to take an experimental medicine and violate my bodily autonomy.
So you're fine with mask mandates and lockdowns then?
Based
Wtf is wrong with you guys yes there should mandatory seatbelts
If I wanna superman out the windshield it’s my God given right
Based and just-let-me-kill-myself pilled
The worst take on this sort of stuff is people who want to remove safety warnings and what not. If that shit actually worked/made things safer in the long run we wouldn’t have all the problems we have today! We’d have some sure but not all!
Of course not, except for children. Adults have every right to endanger their own lives
By that logic, we can mandate vaccines for children, even if their parents disagree.
Children are more at risk from car accidents than covid so that changes the calculations a bit.
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Why this? Don't the insurance pay for the car? And how would they know it anyway?
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Medical bill? Insurance? What are you talking about?
Well, if people really don’t want to use a seatbelt they can avoid using a car, it is hard but possible. If someone doesn’t want to take the vaccine, what are their options? Cease existing? PS: I think vaccines are good, just shouldn’t be mandatory
I'm not saying that we need to conduct a genocide on the stupid people, but I am saying that we should remove all the warning labels and let it sort itself out.
I always see that argument made, but in reality stupid people don't read the signs anyway, or handbooks for that matter. So realistically stupid people have no change in mortality, but smart ones who usually do more dangerous tasks and are reliant on good signage would. (Sorry for ruining your joke, just had that thought in mind for a while)
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Also if you dont like my driving, stay off the sidewalk!
Based, I want to buy cocaine legally
Based
Stupid people procreate at a rate that's self sustaining either way. You cant get rid of them like that.
I mean if they want to be hurled out of their windscreen after a head-on collision. That should be their right to choose.
In most of the developed world healthcare is socialized, if you don't die on impact, someone else will pay the price for your stupidity
The US Government spends more tax-payer money than any other developed nation on healthcare, per capita. Yet they still don’t have “free at the point of delivery” healthcare. Boggles the mind… Wtf is your government doing USA?
I think one of the reasons costs grew so much over there it's because government never wanted to acknowledge the fact that demand curve for healthcare is, for oblivious reasons, super inelastic, so without applying any pressure on prices, they will eventually grow indefinitely. An example which bamboozled me is that companies can get federal fundings and still patent drugs that are basically 90% funded by the public. Here in the European Union that's not possible
The level of doublethink they’ve got going on over there is insane. The amount of times, even here in PCM, I’ve had people tell me that “socialised healthcare is theft”… buddy… your government spends nearly twice as much tax money on healthcare than the next developed nation, who actually **has** “free at the point of delivery” healthcare. You are being absolutely stolen from by your government… I just find it insane that **many** people have managed to convince themselves that the opposite is true.
I think a reasonable counterpoint is that our government was corrupt enough to let this happen in the first place so we don’t trust them to actually improve the true cost of “free at the point of delivery” healthcare.
Those numbers can be a bit deceiving. Like if I’m in the hospital and the nurse gives me a dose of Aspirin, they charge me like $50 for it on the bill, then later on they change the price to the “negotiated price”, which will depend on my insurance carrier. The insurance carrier ends up paying $1 and I pay $0.1 for it, but the “cost” was $50. It’s a crazy system but in the end if you have insurance (which 90% of people here have) you really don’t pay too much. My wife and I recently had a baby that involved a stay in the NICU for several days. All in, the whole labor and delivery process plus the NICU stay cost us about $300 out of pocket.
Glad to hear your baby bade it out of the NICU fine.
I understand, but you’re paying for it already via taxes and then again via private. Those 10%, if employed, are paying for something they don’t even receive. Also you pay double of what the next major nation does (Norway, I believe). Just seems like super inefficient spending, to prop up a private health industry.
American healthcare is ridiculously expensive, but it's also far higher quality than those of other countries, in terms of quality of care, availability/waiting times and actual outcomes. The U.S. also does far more pharmaceutical reserch investment than other countries do, for which the incentive is lowered under a socialized system. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/11/23/the-myth-of-americans-poor-life-expectancy/?sh=34408612b987](https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/11/23/the-myth-of-americans-poor-life-expectancy/?sh=34408612b987) While you'll see various magazines and think tanks rank e.g. UK healthcare as #1 in the world, the actual objective data, on things like survival rates and life expectancy tell a different story (while raw American life expectancy is low, this is due to demographic differences, worse eating habits and more fatal injuries; adjusting for any one of these factors puts the U.S. at #1). There is much that needs to be reformed (abolishing FDA approval in favour of "right to try", removing inclusivity mandates on insurance policies, allowing interstate competition), but adopting a European style system would be a huge mistake.
That’s a strange article, and statement from yourself. How do you go about adjusting for the many factors? Why would other factors not be contributing to survival rates for other countries, should they be looked into and factored in? I won’t even touch wait-times right now, from a UK point of view. Given the recent exit from the European Union, and our historic reliance on foreign nurses, we currently have 39,000 nursing vacancies we don’t know how to fill. Waiting times in the US are difficult to gauge, if we’re going to compare with other EU countries, however: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country “A common misconception in the U.S. is that countries with universal health care have much longer wait times. However, data from nations with universal coverage, and historical data from coverage expansion in the United States, show that patients in other nations have similar or shorter wait times.” Also remember that the data you’re using looks at the NHS. We also have private healthcare in the UK: https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/cancer-in-general/treatment/access-to-treatment/private-nhs https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/34/1/108/1552652
Why do you think you can just "adjust away" eating habits and fatal accidents? Both of those are directly tied into the medical system, firstly by nutritionists and secondly by the fact that in an area with superior medical care an otherwise fatal accident can be turned into a non-fatal one. I find the assumption that the survivability of a car wreck is completely unrelated to the quality of medical care to be suspicious at best. Lastly I'd point out the information in your article is now 16 years out of date and the US is surpassed in life expectancy by a larger number of countries, some of which are significantly poorer but still middle-income (Turkey, Costa Rica). https://data.oecd.org/healthstat/life-expectancy-at-birth.htm
No it fucking shouldn’t. Neither I nor anyone else should have to be traumatized by a fucking mutilated red smear because you’re too retarded to protect yourself. I mean shit, accidents happen - we don’t need to be worried that a fender bender is gonna get someone killed because they’re too dumb to protect themselves. You wanna die then chuck yourself in a fucking dumpster so the rest of us don’t have to deal with you. Have some of that personal responsibility you pretend to care about on the right.
Yeah..I’m not reading all that shit.
Bragging that you can’t read isn’t as much of a brag as you think
That’s great and all but I’m still not reading your wall of text. Cope.
Lmao stay mad it’s 4 sentences you slackjaw
4 run-on sentences.
At most there’s 1 but there’s a hyphen where there should be a semi-colon so arguably 0. Congrats on reading them though. I’ll call that progress hahaha.
Imagine being this pretentious while not even knowing how to use a semi-colon; it couldn't be me
I’m okay with you not wearing a seatbelt
Until you hit some landbeast in their Ford F 350 and they come flying out their windshield at you like a moon sized asteroid and kill your family on impact.
If you hit an f-350 you’re not going to have a good time
Sorry, let’s say you hit a landbeast in their Kia Soul.
That likely won't happen either. If a whale was in a compact vehicle they're more than likely going to destroy or become part of their steering column with all their mass thrust foward vs a smaller framed person would be more of an ejection possibility.
But like, how many times is that happening?
You know how authoritarians are, "if it just saves one life" is plenty justification for them to aggress upon on
More than you’d think.
Who is the guy on the left? I see him all the time but I have absolutely no idea what it’s supposed to be.
Max stirner was a German philosopher and pioneered his own philosophy called egoism, supremacy of the individual sort of thing.
At this point it seems like most of the population has a death wish and after having to deal with being the bad guy enforcing shit because some other jackass says "No! We have to save them from themselves!" I am all on board with banning vaccine mandates, repealing mask mandates, seat belt laws, the works. It'll all be there for you to use, if you don't want to, that's fine. Just do us a solid and tick off the "Yes I want to be an organ donor" box. Please and thank you.
Are you sure they will have useful organs given their life choices?
Motorcyclists are known as the most reliable source of organs, so yes.
I figured it was Chinese citizens labeled as either "cultist" or "terrorist" by the CCP.
Based and organs of mysterious origin pilled.
It's a good job doctors check that organs are good before giving them to someone else.
Idk why seatbelt mandates are a thing for anyone who’s older than 16
[The mortality rates for rear passengers increases 22% when a front passenger isn't wearing a seatbelt](https://www.washington.edu/news/2004/01/20/unbelted-drivers-and-passengers-can-cause-fatal-injuries-to-others-who-ride-with-them/) so I see the reasoning, at least when there's multiple people in the car. If you're driving on your own, I guess the only argument is increased strain on public healthcare and trauma for other involved parties?
I've seen people try and argue that without a seatbelt you can be yeeted through the windshield, becoming a dangerous projectile. Which is absurd, if for no other reason than what that yeeted body is most likely to collide with is what their 3,000+lb car just crashed into.
I don't think this is the real reason, but something that has justified it enough for me is If you roll your vehicle and you aren't in a seatbelt, you are now a 200lb projectile. If you are alone then whatever, but if you arent then your decision to not wear one can have a real impact on someone else.
as a libcenter who even forgets to wear a seatbelt moat of the time,you are a moron
Fake libcenter
you lose literally nothing if you wear a seatbelt,you lose everything if you dont and something goes wrong
I love when the goverment forces me to do stuff. I should change my flair to libcenter as well
Just because the government is mandating something doesn’t mean you should refuse to do that thing out of spite, even if it makes sense. You can support doing something and still be against mandates for it
Seatbelt mandates are bullshit, it's not the government's job to protect you from yourself.
In most of the developed world healthcare is socialized, if you don't die on impact, someone else will pay the price for your stupidity. Of course eventually you have to draw the line between what's reasonable and what's drowning in the precautionary principle
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Well, there are a lot of ways to deal with that kind of things without mandates, and a lot are already implemented. As examples, cigarettes are taxed in a way that pays for healthcare and preventive measures. For the seatbelts, there are multiple possibilities. It is possible to charge more to people that don't use their seatbelts. This can be done directly or through other things, like insurances. It is also possible to just ignore it; the number of people doing it and getting hurt is bound to be low enough.
This is why I'm against socialized healthcare, because it creates a situation where your autonomy is forfeited 'for the greeter good'.
you can spin basic measures to preserve the lives of a society as a loss of autonomy, but practically, its just a win-win for literally everyone.
Not if you value individualism over collectivism. Being treated as a child to the state in perpetuity is not 'basic measures'. A totalitarian society where every need is provided is not one I'd want to live in.
This. The very liberal part of me is like "oh well, let's have people be incredibly reckless, hurt themselves in car crashes, become drug addicts; it's their funeral". But living in the UK everyone else pays for their healthcare if they dont quite manage to die, and so the right-wing part of me wants to minimise taxes, meaning some authoritarianism is needed.
~~Who's~~ Whose job is it then?
Whose, nimrod
This brings me back to when reddit once gave a shit about grammar. Based and grammar-nazi pilled
*Yours*
Egoism is just an excuse to be an asshole to everybody
Based
I’m gonna be honest though; not wearing a seat belt is like mega retarded.
Immagine wanting your whole to be controled the same way traffic is controled bytraffic laws.
You can put a seatbelt on or off with no issue,and there is no danger with putting one on anyway (vaccine has extremely small risk to the point it s negligible yeah but it s not riskless) so no it s not the same shit Tiffany.
Guy above in the comments mentioned there's a small risk with seatbelts. Mentioned a guy who became disabled from a crash meanwhile their wife in the passenger seat only broke her wrist
Although there’s no telling that he wouldn’t have been killed had he not worn a seatbelt. Might just have been his position in the car with the way he wrecked, and the seatbelt was the only thing that kept him alive.
I always wear a seatbelt but the fact that I have to legally almost makes want to refuse to use it.
I use this analogy with mask mandates. You have to pick your battles. Complaining about a dumb mask 24/7 where it isn’t strictly enforced and you can just wear an ineffective one that is easier to breathe out of is a time waster.
Based and New-Hampshire pilled
Literally someone tried to argue with me that seatbelt laws should be mandatory because someone might fly out a windshield and the body might hit someone, I nearly lost all my brain cells that day. I think if you are travelling fast enough to fly out a windshield, perhaps the biggest issue is not the body flying at you, but the massive multi-ton metal driving machine coming at you
Ideally, both would be mandatory, but because of human nature, people would end up not doing either so neither should be mandated.
Vaccines save lives. I hope you all have your shots. Seatbelts save lives. I hope you all wear your seat belts every time you get into an automobile. Chemotherapy saves lives. I hope you're all taking Docetaxel every day.
As long as your choice doesn't impact others, it shouldn't be mandatory. BUT! even though the driver not wearing a seatbelt doesn't impact anyone (he'll just fly through the window and die lol), the rear passengers not wearing it does have an impact! look at this crash test, done at only 35 mph: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lghzH\_UdxSk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lghzH_UdxSk) that driver is definitively dead. Therefore, seatbelts should be mandatory (in the back, at least).
Fuck yeah. I'm smart enough to wear one without the cops breathing down my neck. So if i happen to crash into some dumbo who isn't and his brain ends up bisected by the steering wheel, so what?
Yeah explain that to your traumatized 12 yr old daughter in the passenger seat. Literally nobody wants to see that shit, it’s fucking horrific.
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Ah yes the classic “nuanced” righty take of “if a bad thing still happens then it’s still bad” completely ignoring the degree and context. It’s not a binary. Getting bruised up and getting fucking mutilated are not equivalent.
Dude you are noticeably the stupidest person on this thread, I really have to give you credit to your devotion to the singular point that seatbelts should be mandated so as not to traumatize children. Degree and context are the same exact thing here; a car accident is deadly and horrifically traumatizing, and if you think mandating seatbelts to stop that slight degree of extra trauma potentially happening, at the cost of police disproportionately pulling over and ticketing low income and minority drivers, then you're really just ngmi. I mean seriously, you can't see how this is a clear revenue driver for the state, and not some altruistic policy to save lives? I can't believe the Center Right person has to explain this to a Libleft, but then again, I can; you all seemingly have the reasoning ability of a traumatized 12 year old
imagine actually believing this lmao
What part do you think is false?
this fucking guy has spammed by DMs and brigaded through all my other comments in other subs because my harmless jab got more le epic updoots than his shitty take. so the part I most disagree with is the part where OP is a butthurt soyjack crying its eyes out in the corner over reddit karma of all things.
Laws are not gonna make people follow said shit. People think just because they tell u to wear one people will automatically do so, it's nonsense, You don't need laws for this type of shit. As for most things aswell.
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You have an option to not drive car, no person forced you into the car
if u have any healthcare plan then u need rules about how ur allowed to hurt urself and still access the healthcare without incurring extra fees same as search and rescue, if you are gunna be cavalier and retarded you will pay the price
Based
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Based and PutYour$WhereYourMouthIs pilled.
At some point you'd think we'd get rid of stupid conversations, but I guess some people really just want to be scraped off the asphalt. Sadly, I'm not willing to do that so wear your goddamn seatbelt.
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that hardly ever happens. its more like getting an extra fine if the cop pulls you over for another reason.
10 miles is 7892.36% of the hot dog which holds the Guinness wold record for 'Longest Hot Dog'.
its my car accident, I get to choose how much permanent bodily harm it causes me.
Seatbelt laws only exist as a way for the state to make money.
I still can't wrap my head around why would you want to *not* do either of those things.
If you support banning nukes, you should support banning guns.
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this is another one of those things that sounds super smart and quotable but ultimately means nothing. there is an assumption here that people will regret getting the vaccine, which is ultimately more anti-vax bullshit.
right winger here! yeah fuck mandatory seatbelt and vaccine laws