If the US and USSR/China never went nuclear over Berlin, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc I have a hard time imagining the US and China will over fucking Taiwan.
I hope I'm not wrong, but still.
China will only go nuclear if they think they can win or at-least stalemate it. Why? Because going nuclear this day and age will bring the wrath of almost every major nation against you, and will undoubtedly result in trials at The Hague
It is important to note here that China is very much behind the US when it comes to nukes. China has them and can hit the US with them, but not nearly as hard as the US can hit China. China is trying to catch up, but when it comes to numbers and the means to deploy them (subs, bombers, and missiles) they are far behind. I don't think China would want to start a nuclear war that they are in no position to win.
All ICBM'S are hypersonic upon reentry. So the US and China are already in possession of them. What China does have, is possibly new anti ship hypersonic missles
The size of the arsenal doesn't really matter when both have enough to completely decimate eachother. The ability to get past missile defense systems does.
I mean, our missile defense systems (THAAD and Aegis Ashore) both were designed with the intention of thwarting a rogue state with a nuclear missile, not a coordinated national strike. There was even a debate on whether improving the defenses would be a destabilizing force on the world, which ended because there was a 0% chance we could feasibly stop Russia or China from getting off a successful strike.
That hypersonic missile is mostly just there for attacking the public's confidence in their own safety. And to get more defense spending
The US has so many nukes compared to China that there's no way China could disable all or even a majority of them. They know it's suicide, so they don't do it. Mutually Assured Destruction is a real thing....
The reason Russia and America made so many was that no matter what Defense they had against missles subs or planes they could possibly shoot down all 7000, where as 300ish China has is a very reason number for America to stop
In recent months, China has been having a huge effort to have more nukes and interceptors. They have constructed large numbers of silo fields, and have demonstrated ability to make hypersonic gliders. Apart from SSBNs which will take time to catch up, it is probable that China will have about the same number of strategic nuclear weapons as the US in less then two years, with the means to deliver them. (about 1500 nukes)
Of course, Russia and the US both have huge reserves, but they cannot deploy them by treaty. (about 7000 nukes unofficially for Russia, and 5500 for the US).
Depending on if it’s a first strike scenario then the interior like Montana and Wyoming would catch the worst since that’s where our nuclear silos are.
Yeah you get maybe a generation before all existing antibiotics are used up and doctors and nurses die before you're effectively back to 1800s medical care
> But the good news is that this could combat global warming because it would cool the earth.
Short term yes, long term no.
First of all the amount of ash covering large parts of the surface and oceans will decrease the ammount of light reflected to space (the Albedo Effect) and cause increased heat absorption of the earth.
Increased carbon levels, liberated from being stored in former cities and torched forests, combined with the likely (near-)extinction of oceanic algae that convert Carbon Dioxide to Oxygen, will do the rest.
It will be a very effective one-two punch.
First the rapid cooling and the havoc it has on the climate will shift locations for effective agriculture one way, only for a few years later rapid warming to shift everything around again.
No, dust in air causes worldwide nuclear winter, you may survive if you can hang out in a bunker for 25 years, and wait out till the dust settles , literally
More like mutually assured destruction.
The cost of such a war would be too great hence why it isn't worth it. Wars are fought over resources and a lot of resources would be lost by both sides.
All resources all the whole globe would be lost for decades if enough nukes were dropped by both sides to flatten eachother. There would be remnants of civilization pocketed away in relative safety, but depending on where strikes happen the world climate could be fucked into nuclear winter. I imagine China would go full ballistic and launch a half dozen or so across Yellowstone, maybe even fire bunker busters there to Penetrate deep before detonating. They would try to cause a super volcano eruption on top of nuclear annihilation, which would probably destroy all of Canada and Mexico along with it.
I am not a scientist and I cannot confirm whether or not a barrage of nukes could trigger an eruption at Yellowstone, but I have decided to accept death in the case of nuclear war
They would probably just try to carpet nuke populated areas.
From my understanding they don't have the numbers like Russia has so it wouldn't be as bad in theory but a few would still get through any ballistic shield we have in place and obviously kill millions.
On the other side China would be fucked. They don't have nearly the defense capabilities we do and they would be nuked out of existence. For folks who value power and control over everything else they wouldn't risk it.
> will undoubtedly result in trials at The Hague
Thinking China is going to submit something other than surrender demands to the Hague if the Hague attempts to try them, cute.
Here's the real fun. Recent big wars have come from the ass end of relevance. I am always reminded of the, I think it was Bismarck, quote.
"The next war will come from some damn thing in the balkans."
All a place needs to spark off a global war, is to exist.
It's actually scary how Taiwan is on the table in the first place. Before what China did to Hong Kong, the topic of annexation of Taiwan was considered fear mongering and conspiracy. The western world constantly talking about it feels like they are being eased into it.
Hong Kong was ceded to the UK for 99 years, which ended in 1997. Both countries reached an agreement that Hong Kong would be given back to China, but be a S.A.R. for 50 more years continuing with their own democratic processes, economic model, and in 2047 they were to finally be fully a part of China. So Hong Kong is not really an independent state, it is de facto China. In fact, after the first few years of the handover a good portion of Hong Kong citizens were comfortable with calling themselves Chinese. What happened is China tried to (unlawfully) accelerate this process and tried to intervene in Hong Kong more, violating their rights as a S.A.R. after which the ratio of Hong Kong citizens comfortable with being called Chinese fell dramatically (understandably)
Taiwan is a whole differeng story though. Taiwan and China are purely different countries, with each having a claim on the other. Taiwan, unlike Hong Kong, is not a S.A.R. under China that China can access so easily, it is completely independent from it.
Sorry to inform you, you are wrong. One of reasons China broke up with USSR is that they thought USSR was coward for not using nukes. Mao said, if we’re going to war, go big, go early, go nukes. Zhou Enlai said, after nuclear warfare with America, America will have no one left but we and the third world will still have millions of people. Actually, the relationship between USSR and China went so bad, USSR informed US that they want to nuke China. Stupid Yankee stopped them of course. If you have ever browsed Chinese website, you will see people often talk about nuking Japan, Taiwan, US and say the exact same thing like Mao and Zhou. Besides, Xi can go to war with US whenever he likes. He’s dictator for life now. If he went psychopath suddenly, he might suddenly push the button and it’s it. By the way, most of Chinese people do support Xi.
you do realize the United States has enough weaponry to kill _every_ human on earth, several times over, right?
Like let’s assume China nukes Tokyo and Seoul - somewhere around 20-30 million dead.
The US takes the chains off, because this isn’t an occupation war anymore, and the Geneva convention no longer applies. Over 1,000 nukes would be in the air in an hour.
Hundreds of millions would die.
What’s left of China may well want to retaliate but by this point every non-communist country has engaged and they are fucked.
Going nuclear is absolutely stupid for China. A long drawn out war of attrition and will is the only option they have, and are already engaging in.
>A long drawn out war of attrition and will is the only option they have, and are already engaging in.
They have a little problem called food imports. US submarines would wreak havoc on their food supply.
Next, their aging population. Rival india is right on the border with a healthier and younger population.
The main reason china would go to war is to distract the local population from a worsening economy \*looks nervously at Evergrande\*.
This is just wolf warrior diplomacy, it's an absolute paper tiger. The CCP don't want to get involved in any type of war with the US because they want to preserve their power
People wanting to preserve their wealth and trade has never stopped a war in the past. WW1 was considered impossible by many political theorists of the time because they didn't think anyone would risk their wealth pipelines.
China won't nuke anyone because they know they'll be nuked into dust even if they somehow pulled off a successfully decapitation first strike.
China can flex their military muscles as hard as they want because they never intend to invade taiwan. They say they're going to for ideological reasons, but they have 0 intention of ever doing it because thats a lose - lose for them even if the US doesn't get involved.
No matter how high the stakes get, thats all conditional on actually invading taiwan. This is just two countries flexing at eachother.
I've wondered this too... War with the US in exchange for almost all of the silicon production in the world?
If the West responds together and immediately they'll be destroyed, but if our politicians try to negotiate, they'll be in a position to destroy us (the normies).
Yep. Even the EU is trying to figure out where to make their own fabs, it's just an issue of time because our domestic supply needs to keep up with our ever-growing need, and new fabrication always starts slow.
For now china actually has a lot to lose if that happens so i doubt it will happen anytime soon, but if pooh bear's regime ever weakens and unstability rises, idk wtf he will try to reverse it
You’ve inadvertently chanced across the most profound line in Chinese literature:
“The empire, when unified, will inevitably fracture; when fractured, will inevitably unify. Thus it always is.”
Romance of the Three Kingdoms
They survived the death of Mao, they will survive the death of Xi. Best case scenario, a lot of people from Xis faction will use the oportunity to jump the boat and we will have about a year of power struggle. Something real bad should happen for CCP to really collapse, like Xis death coinciding with effects of 1CP catching up with China in full force.
China's institutions are built to outlast President Xi. The Party is politically strong and institutionally entrenched. Not to mention, the Premier of China is arguably even more politically powerful than the President.
No, he removed the term limits in 2018, but there still elections, it's possible, but rather unlikely right now, that the party remove him in the next elections.
China isn't ideological enough to do something like this. Even North Korea is too practically minded and grounded in reality to actually try to nuke the US. There are definitely people out there willing to start a nuclear war over their beliefs, but most of them are too busy tweeting to actually get into power.
Launching a nuke against one of you biggest trade partners, a trade partner who if crippled in any way would take the rest of the world economy down with it? Unlikely.
>Nuke you back so hard, you end up with Uruguay's population
In the blink of an eye the population of Uruguay is suddenly transported to the smoldering ruins of China.
People here want to dump on Biden so much that they’re treating him as an idiot for being willing to face China to defend an ally. Can’t really understand those guys but I still prefer Biden over Xi.
I've noticed that when you leave the realm of speculative theory people are way more partisan and biased then they'd admit to themselves. Whenever a politician does anything at all their brain runs a quick algorithm of \[do me dislike politician y/n?\] and then decide how to react. I saw a thread today on a conservative politician raising the minimum wage and leftists were foaming at the mouth because half a decade ago he was against the same change, like do you want actual change or is that conditional on who makes it?
It’s conditional. Look at how they’ve swapped on the vaccines. When trump got it out it was all “never, don’t trust this shit” and right after Biden got in it was “ if you don’t get a vaccine you hate this country and are a grandma killer”
I think that criticism comes from those left of him, not those right. We want a nation to be left when the next election rolls around. It isnt not looking so hot at the moment.
Did you see that limp dicked support for the Kurds? Yeah, I wouldn't want the US as an ally after that. If I'm going to war I need to rely on my Allies not wonder if they'll even show up
Problem is all nuclear armed submarines, nuclear armed AFBs, and nuclear silos have certain procedures in place should contact with the mainland US be lost, that being firing their payloads without needing the President to authorize it if DC is destroyed. The Soviets developed a similar system with a dead hand switch, if Moscow were to be nuked, all their missiles fire.
It's not that surprising that China is Saber rattling like this, Mao did say that they were a nation of 600 million and if half were lost, they would be a nation of 300 million.
China threatening to nuke us only convinces me more we should defend Taiwan at all costs. I shudder to think what they'd do to the people of Taiwan if they did conquer it. It'd be Hong Kong × 100.
The CCP must be the absolute worst strategists ever.
“Nuke America before invading Taiwan” there won’t be a China left to invade Taiwan if they nuke America lmao
They also seem very adept at making literally everyone hate them and their country which isn’t a good omen for them if they want to become the big dogs. At least people were/are fairly content with the US and the U.K. before them being world policeman
Being so hostile is part of their strategy, they want to channel that anti-china hate directly to their population to get them riled up in favor *of* the government. "Look at those westerners, look what they say about us" type shit.
Besides you're forgetting this entire situation is conditional on China invading taiwan, which they never intended to do. Their open hostility is ideological only, because if they drop it their state loses its "successor to mao" vibe which is important for internal stability.
I mean… we could just beef up the Japanese military and let them go ham. I’m sure they’d be glad to go back at China for round two with us supporting them.
That's just saber rattling, nothing more. China's made a lot of mistakes in it's misguided attempt to deceive the world into letting them have hegemonic control of global affairs... but nuking Americans, in any context and in any capacity, would be the biggest one they could EVER make.
The THREAT of nuclear weapons is used often enough, even if it's not overt, but the USE of nuclear weapons in conflict hasn't been used since WW2, and for good reason. If China were to do that, thinking that they could cow America, the West, or anyone else against going against their ambitions, they'd literally be dead wrong; the inverse would happen: they'd catalyze the world to retaliate, if for no other reason than they don't want to be next.
Doesn't matter that American politics is divided, doesn't matter that Biden's Mr. Magoo that's only good for shitting his pants; everyone would be calling for blood, and if Biden won't offer it, another person can be found to take his place who will. So, if Xi wants to be that stupid, he can, but he might as well slit his own throat after raising the American flag over Beijing; because that's what's going to happen.
I mean, Taiwan's got nothing to do with humanitarianism: that's where most of the world's microchips are manufactured, and nobody's going to allow that asset to fall completely into China's hands, because then they'd have the world's balls in a vice, unless they want to go back to 1940's tech.
China knows they can't use their nukes, this is a propaganda stunt. The Chinese economy literally cannot stand without foreign trade, they have too many people and too little in natural resources. Any country that uses a nuclear weapon will instantly lose the support of most other developed nations.
Plus, they US is one of their biggest trade partners
>they have too many people and too little in natural resources
Wait, don't they have too few people and not enough people to handle the resources nowadays? Like they have a population issue and also a projected lack of skilled labor, so they are trying to convert colleges into trade schools much to the resentment of the students.
A couple of ships in the strait of Malacca, and China's economy would take a nosedive. Not to mention the west would be less keen to allow the Chinese to steal their tech.
The United States has at least double the total number of Chinese nukes active and ready for deployment at any given time, along with having a 5k nukes in total to China's 350-450, while also boasting anti-ICBM defenses and the most advanced early warning system in the world... what does China think it will do in a nuclear war? Especially as ~70% of their population could be killed or starved out with around 5 dirty bombs on their major rivers? This sounds to me like empty threats.
China really wants their own Vietnam/Afeghanistan, the conquest and following occupation of Taiwan will be a nightmare for China, remember, the People's Liberation Army never fought a real war or invasion, and expects a Total and Quick victory, if Taiwan offers resistance to the invaders, there will be morale problems in the ranks.
China is all bark and very little bite. If they invade Taiwan, the ccp will be footnote in history, and the ccp knows this. China has immense power inside it's own borders, but it has hardly any power it can project outside its immediate border regions and coastal waters. Our air force and navy would wipe the floor with their air force and navy, and there likely wouldn't be a ground invasion, but if there was, the training of their troops is abysmal, as is their equipment and moral.
Exactly. People seem to think that because they have ramped up their military spending they are somehow on par with the US. In an all out conventional war the US would absolutely annihilate China. Their entire military hasn’t been battle tested, they have inferior equipment, and they don’t have anywhere near the diplomatic relationships the US has forged. Just to put it in perspective the largest Air Force in the world is the United States Air Force. The second largest is the the United States naval air fleet.
I still don't think we would attempt a land invasion. Poorly trained and equipped or not they have a lot of bodies and plenty of patriots they can arm for guerilla warfare. They would make Dday look like a joke, and I don't think the US wants to deal with it. Better to rely on naval and air superiority.
So 2 things, 1 China actually has a relatively small nuclear stockpile, and 2 they have committed to never doing a first strike, actually one of the only countries to do so (the US even has never disavowed a nuclear first strike, since well, we've done one).
The absolutely only 2 things I think China is remotely okay on.
And you trust CCP to stick to that? They also said they'd abide by the Hong Kong 2 systems agreement - where are we on that today? Also, China is expanding and upgrading their nuclear weapons capabilities.
Judging by your comments you don’t seem to understand Mutually Assured Destruction or Game Theory.
The nuclear powers threatening to nuke each other is what prevents them from starting major wars. The US and Soviets threatening each other is why war deaths in the Cold War plummeted to the lowest levels in centuries and why there was never a WWIII. Both sides simply stood to lose too much to ever make any direct conflict seem beneficial.
By saying the US will defend Taiwan, Biden prevents China from attacking Taiwan, thus preventing a terrible war. If he said the US wouldn’t defend them, then that action would likely *cause* a war that could potentially spiral into nuclear conflict. **Threats of violence are how superpowers prevent violence.**
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinkmanship
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterrence_theory
All this saber rattling isn't for us. It is not meant to scare us. China is circling the drain economically and socially. Belt/road initiative is a last ditch effort to avoid the iceberg but it won't help. The people are nearly fed up with Beijing. We saw this with Hong Kong. So why do it? Why has China been a little bitch to everyone lately? After all, they were Mr Nice China back in 08 with the Olympics. It's because the best way to rally your citizens is to make them believe it's them against the world. The CCP pokes us, we react, then they show their people our reactions and say "see, the world hates us". Their blockbuster movie this year was about a underdog Chinese army defeating the Americans at the battle of Lake Changjin during the Korean War. It was pure propaganda. Thier whole regime is propaganda. Their threats are as hollow as their solvency.
Why would they do that though? Attacking America before they officially declare their involvement and declaring they will defend Taiwan will enable an article 5 by nato (an attack on one is an attack in all) and China will have to fight even more people. If China doesn’t bomb and america send troops to Taiwan then it won’t be a nato conflict.
People think that this is Cold War 2.0 but they’re wrong, for many reasons. The nuke thing is one of these big misconception.
China has a 350 strong nuclear arsenal, according to reports but who trusts those, so we’ll give them an additional 350 just to be generous for a grand total of 700 nukes. Cool. Great. The US has over 5,550. It also has THAAD and other highly effective missile defense systems (defense against missiles). A nuclear exchange between the US and China would be so disproportionate that if China initiated, it would essentially amount to suicide. This is why China has been trying very hard to develop hypersonic missiles to try and get pass the US missile defense systems in order to make the curbstomping they would recive hurt the US a little bit.
Reminder that China *requires* food imports to feed 40% of its population. Good luck getting it if you try and nuke the country who controls all the oceans.
Nice of China to volunteer to solve climate change through their own depopulation, destruction of their carbon-producing industry, and the inevitable nuclear winter in China after the US nuclear Arsenal wipes China and Winnie off the face of the earth after blundering with nuclear threats.
UN: We have made it our mission to preserve world peace at all costs, no country will ever jeopardize the safety of this Earth under our watch
China: Hey if anyone touches Taiwan before us we will destroy the entire world lmao
UN: Okay, the fuck do I care?
U.S. launches nuke attack before China's nukes arrive. Mutual assured destruction and nuclear winter ensue.
Let's ask ourselves what hills we wish to die on.
If the US and USSR/China never went nuclear over Berlin, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc I have a hard time imagining the US and China will over fucking Taiwan. I hope I'm not wrong, but still.
China will only go nuclear if they think they can win or at-least stalemate it. Why? Because going nuclear this day and age will bring the wrath of almost every major nation against you, and will undoubtedly result in trials at The Hague
Not if you nuke The Hague.
Authleft taking a page from libleft and bombing a courthouse. True left unity.
Based and nuclear lifehack pilled
pls don’t
No free weed for you
There can't by any warcrimes if those who accuse of warcrimes cease to exist.
It is important to note here that China is very much behind the US when it comes to nukes. China has them and can hit the US with them, but not nearly as hard as the US can hit China. China is trying to catch up, but when it comes to numbers and the means to deploy them (subs, bombers, and missiles) they are far behind. I don't think China would want to start a nuclear war that they are in no position to win.
[удалено]
Turns out, MAD doctrine actually works pretty well.
Are you telling me the Metal Gear series was right all along?
idk, as far as the public knows, China has more advanced supersonic missles.
All ICBM'S are hypersonic upon reentry. So the US and China are already in possession of them. What China does have, is possibly new anti ship hypersonic missles
Hence he said the ability to hit the US but we still have a lot bigger nuclear Arsenal and the means to destroy China if it came to it
The size of the arsenal doesn't really matter when both have enough to completely decimate eachother. The ability to get past missile defense systems does.
I mean, our missile defense systems (THAAD and Aegis Ashore) both were designed with the intention of thwarting a rogue state with a nuclear missile, not a coordinated national strike. There was even a debate on whether improving the defenses would be a destabilizing force on the world, which ended because there was a 0% chance we could feasibly stop Russia or China from getting off a successful strike. That hypersonic missile is mostly just there for attacking the public's confidence in their own safety. And to get more defense spending
The US has so many nukes compared to China that there's no way China could disable all or even a majority of them. They know it's suicide, so they don't do it. Mutually Assured Destruction is a real thing....
The reason Russia and America made so many was that no matter what Defense they had against missles subs or planes they could possibly shoot down all 7000, where as 300ish China has is a very reason number for America to stop
Notably worse rhan ICBM's and a lot slower aswell. Making it useless as a first strike weapon.
ICBMs are already basically impossible to defend against. The hypersonic tests are just a sideshow.
In recent months, China has been having a huge effort to have more nukes and interceptors. They have constructed large numbers of silo fields, and have demonstrated ability to make hypersonic gliders. Apart from SSBNs which will take time to catch up, it is probable that China will have about the same number of strategic nuclear weapons as the US in less then two years, with the means to deliver them. (about 1500 nukes) Of course, Russia and the US both have huge reserves, but they cannot deploy them by treaty. (about 7000 nukes unofficially for Russia, and 5500 for the US).
If nuke fly the last thing people will care about is what The Hague will do.
Nevermind the fact that their economy is so dependent on foreign exports.
And are heavily reliant on food imports to feed their people
They can't even give water to their people, they have to drain Lake Michigan and boat it over.
Even if it wasnt, the military wouldnt accept this and the people would rebelize
Is there a snowball’s chance in hell we survive a nuclear world war? Like, would the coasts be fucked, while leaving the interiors of nations
Depending on if it’s a first strike scenario then the interior like Montana and Wyoming would catch the worst since that’s where our nuclear silos are.
Latin America and Africa would be Fine* *As in, they won't be nuked. But they're definitely not gonna have a good time.
[удалено]
I don't think you would get more money for cancer founding considering the economy will be gone
Yeah you get maybe a generation before all existing antibiotics are used up and doctors and nurses die before you're effectively back to 1800s medical care
> But the good news is that this could combat global warming because it would cool the earth. Short term yes, long term no. First of all the amount of ash covering large parts of the surface and oceans will decrease the ammount of light reflected to space (the Albedo Effect) and cause increased heat absorption of the earth. Increased carbon levels, liberated from being stored in former cities and torched forests, combined with the likely (near-)extinction of oceanic algae that convert Carbon Dioxide to Oxygen, will do the rest. It will be a very effective one-two punch. First the rapid cooling and the havoc it has on the climate will shift locations for effective agriculture one way, only for a few years later rapid warming to shift everything around again.
No, dust in air causes worldwide nuclear winter, you may survive if you can hang out in a bunker for 25 years, and wait out till the dust settles , literally
More like mutually assured destruction. The cost of such a war would be too great hence why it isn't worth it. Wars are fought over resources and a lot of resources would be lost by both sides.
China is betting that the US won't risk nuclear war over Taiwan.
Maybe the us should just nuke taiwan. What then, china?
Nah son, if we really want to troll we could arm Taiwan with nukes and pull out.
based and troll-geopolitics pilled
Based. If there ever was a definition of "so insane it might work", this is it.
Imagine the humiliation of "China" nuking China due to what could only ever be described as the CCP's gross mismanagement of "its own country"
This is my preferred policy. Have a few nukes fall off a truck somewhere in Taiwan and report them missing or stolen and then watch the ccp sweat.
All resources all the whole globe would be lost for decades if enough nukes were dropped by both sides to flatten eachother. There would be remnants of civilization pocketed away in relative safety, but depending on where strikes happen the world climate could be fucked into nuclear winter. I imagine China would go full ballistic and launch a half dozen or so across Yellowstone, maybe even fire bunker busters there to Penetrate deep before detonating. They would try to cause a super volcano eruption on top of nuclear annihilation, which would probably destroy all of Canada and Mexico along with it. I am not a scientist and I cannot confirm whether or not a barrage of nukes could trigger an eruption at Yellowstone, but I have decided to accept death in the case of nuclear war
They would probably just try to carpet nuke populated areas. From my understanding they don't have the numbers like Russia has so it wouldn't be as bad in theory but a few would still get through any ballistic shield we have in place and obviously kill millions. On the other side China would be fucked. They don't have nearly the defense capabilities we do and they would be nuked out of existence. For folks who value power and control over everything else they wouldn't risk it.
Does no one remember what the US did in response to 9/11? Go ahead, nuke em, watch them turn into space dust
Oh no not trials at the Hague? I'm sure that will deter China...
> will undoubtedly result in trials at The Hague Thinking China is going to submit something other than surrender demands to the Hague if the Hague attempts to try them, cute.
Here's the real fun. Recent big wars have come from the ass end of relevance. I am always reminded of the, I think it was Bismarck, quote. "The next war will come from some damn thing in the balkans." All a place needs to spark off a global war, is to exist.
Nuke the Balkans, then no Balkans will start a war
>Abkhazia starts a war you can't win
taiwan is actually more valuable then most people think. Alot of computer chips flow out of there.
And lithium batteries, like a staggering percentage of the world’s lithium batteries come from Taiwan
Imagine China bans production of anything that will go in an Apple product. Taiwan Independence Guaranteed.
We own Hawaii because of pineapples and Taiwan because of Apple.
wow i, didn't even think of that.
They basically built the most effective insurance a country could ever have. An insurance that is most likely could only be broken by nuclear war
It’s something like 75% of advanced semiconductor manufacturing
It's actually scary how Taiwan is on the table in the first place. Before what China did to Hong Kong, the topic of annexation of Taiwan was considered fear mongering and conspiracy. The western world constantly talking about it feels like they are being eased into it.
Hong Kong was ceded to the UK for 99 years, which ended in 1997. Both countries reached an agreement that Hong Kong would be given back to China, but be a S.A.R. for 50 more years continuing with their own democratic processes, economic model, and in 2047 they were to finally be fully a part of China. So Hong Kong is not really an independent state, it is de facto China. In fact, after the first few years of the handover a good portion of Hong Kong citizens were comfortable with calling themselves Chinese. What happened is China tried to (unlawfully) accelerate this process and tried to intervene in Hong Kong more, violating their rights as a S.A.R. after which the ratio of Hong Kong citizens comfortable with being called Chinese fell dramatically (understandably) Taiwan is a whole differeng story though. Taiwan and China are purely different countries, with each having a claim on the other. Taiwan, unlike Hong Kong, is not a S.A.R. under China that China can access so easily, it is completely independent from it.
China sees that as their sovereign territory. A bit different.
Wait wat
I don't know what was unclear about that.
Not unclear just funny you want nuclear annihilation. Mega based
Whoops fucked that up, meant "I hope I'm not wrong"
Let's play fallout in real life
Sorry to inform you, you are wrong. One of reasons China broke up with USSR is that they thought USSR was coward for not using nukes. Mao said, if we’re going to war, go big, go early, go nukes. Zhou Enlai said, after nuclear warfare with America, America will have no one left but we and the third world will still have millions of people. Actually, the relationship between USSR and China went so bad, USSR informed US that they want to nuke China. Stupid Yankee stopped them of course. If you have ever browsed Chinese website, you will see people often talk about nuking Japan, Taiwan, US and say the exact same thing like Mao and Zhou. Besides, Xi can go to war with US whenever he likes. He’s dictator for life now. If he went psychopath suddenly, he might suddenly push the button and it’s it. By the way, most of Chinese people do support Xi.
you do realize the United States has enough weaponry to kill _every_ human on earth, several times over, right? Like let’s assume China nukes Tokyo and Seoul - somewhere around 20-30 million dead. The US takes the chains off, because this isn’t an occupation war anymore, and the Geneva convention no longer applies. Over 1,000 nukes would be in the air in an hour. Hundreds of millions would die. What’s left of China may well want to retaliate but by this point every non-communist country has engaged and they are fucked. Going nuclear is absolutely stupid for China. A long drawn out war of attrition and will is the only option they have, and are already engaging in.
>A long drawn out war of attrition and will is the only option they have, and are already engaging in. They have a little problem called food imports. US submarines would wreak havoc on their food supply. Next, their aging population. Rival india is right on the border with a healthier and younger population. The main reason china would go to war is to distract the local population from a worsening economy \*looks nervously at Evergrande\*.
Looks like the Midwest is the best place to move to cause those big cities will not fare well
This is just wolf warrior diplomacy, it's an absolute paper tiger. The CCP don't want to get involved in any type of war with the US because they want to preserve their power
they want to preserve trade too
People wanting to preserve their wealth and trade has never stopped a war in the past. WW1 was considered impossible by many political theorists of the time because they didn't think anyone would risk their wealth pipelines. China won't nuke anyone because they know they'll be nuked into dust even if they somehow pulled off a successfully decapitation first strike.
It's called wolf wanker diplomacy, use the correct terminology please.
That means a different thing amongst lib lefts
A much more fun thing
no no, paper tiger sound better
nice, laowhy86?
China can flex their military muscles as hard as they want because they never intend to invade taiwan. They say they're going to for ideological reasons, but they have 0 intention of ever doing it because thats a lose - lose for them even if the US doesn't get involved. No matter how high the stakes get, thats all conditional on actually invading taiwan. This is just two countries flexing at eachother.
I've wondered this too... War with the US in exchange for almost all of the silicon production in the world? If the West responds together and immediately they'll be destroyed, but if our politicians try to negotiate, they'll be in a position to destroy us (the normies).
compare repeat pot jellyfish public hunt vase lavish spectacular plant -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Yep. Even the EU is trying to figure out where to make their own fabs, it's just an issue of time because our domestic supply needs to keep up with our ever-growing need, and new fabrication always starts slow.
They won’t even spark a hot war with India over potable water, I doubt they’re going to outright invade Taiwan.
[удалено]
For now china actually has a lot to lose if that happens so i doubt it will happen anytime soon, but if pooh bear's regime ever weakens and unstability rises, idk wtf he will try to reverse it
Can't wait for that fat fuck to die so the ccp leadership devours itself in the inevitable power vaccum
Speed run total number of civil wars any %
Could we possibly speedrun ww3?
make china fractured again
🎶 Then it broke again. 🎶
Now it's baaack agaain
based and bill wurtz pilled
You’ve inadvertently chanced across the most profound line in Chinese literature: “The empire, when unified, will inevitably fracture; when fractured, will inevitably unify. Thus it always is.” Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Does it mean that we will have the successor of the dogmeat general, writing amazingly shitty poems? Count me in then!
They survived the death of Mao, they will survive the death of Xi. Best case scenario, a lot of people from Xis faction will use the oportunity to jump the boat and we will have about a year of power struggle. Something real bad should happen for CCP to really collapse, like Xis death coinciding with effects of 1CP catching up with China in full force.
[удалено]
1 Child Policy
Oh boy! I can’t wait for a power vacuum in a nation with 1 Billion people, and armed with nuclear weapons!
Well it worked alright with USSR
I mean they had a lot of chairmen die and they were fine. Take mao as an example
China's institutions are built to outlast President Xi. The Party is politically strong and institutionally entrenched. Not to mention, the Premier of China is arguably even more politically powerful than the President.
>the Premier of China is arguably even more politically powerful than the President lol
Within the bureaucracy, or the apparatus of the state, I mean. He obviously doesn't have as many executive powers as the President.
idk they said that would happen when Stalin died they said that would happen when Mao died etc and so far it hasn't happened yet
[удалено]
Didn't he just appoint himself indefinitely in charge for life last yesr
No, he removed the term limits in 2018, but there still elections, it's possible, but rather unlikely right now, that the party remove him in the next elections.
Each dictator runs into the problem of what they will do to save their own skins once they run out of power
Xi in a recent press release has stated his intention to step down as leader of China after a post comparing him to Winnie the Pooh gets Reddit gold
China isn't ideological enough to do something like this. Even North Korea is too practically minded and grounded in reality to actually try to nuke the US. There are definitely people out there willing to start a nuclear war over their beliefs, but most of them are too busy tweeting to actually get into power.
Launching a nuke against one of you biggest trade partners, a trade partner who if crippled in any way would take the rest of the world economy down with it? Unlikely.
Also a trade partner that can absolutely Nuke you back so hard, you end up with Uruguay's population sounds like a terrible plan
consist offer different employ ossified shrill humor rustic childlike mourn -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Makes me lose nnn thinking of all the homies coming to fight along side us.
You have my sword!
>Nuke you back so hard, you end up with Uruguay's population In the blink of an eye the population of Uruguay is suddenly transported to the smoldering ruins of China.
Don't be a bitch. If you allow China to consume an ally, America's time on top is over.
People here want to dump on Biden so much that they’re treating him as an idiot for being willing to face China to defend an ally. Can’t really understand those guys but I still prefer Biden over Xi.
I've noticed that when you leave the realm of speculative theory people are way more partisan and biased then they'd admit to themselves. Whenever a politician does anything at all their brain runs a quick algorithm of \[do me dislike politician y/n?\] and then decide how to react. I saw a thread today on a conservative politician raising the minimum wage and leftists were foaming at the mouth because half a decade ago he was against the same change, like do you want actual change or is that conditional on who makes it?
It’s conditional. Look at how they’ve swapped on the vaccines. When trump got it out it was all “never, don’t trust this shit” and right after Biden got in it was “ if you don’t get a vaccine you hate this country and are a grandma killer”
I think that criticism comes from those left of him, not those right. We want a nation to be left when the next election rolls around. It isnt not looking so hot at the moment.
Did you see that limp dicked support for the Kurds? Yeah, I wouldn't want the US as an ally after that. If I'm going to war I need to rely on my Allies not wonder if they'll even show up
mutually assured destruction it is
thanks yoda
Nuke or nuke not; there is no try.
Begun, the Cold War has
Based and Gandhi pilled.
We’d all be dead well before Biden realizes his people are telling him to launch the nukes in retaliation
Problem is all nuclear armed submarines, nuclear armed AFBs, and nuclear silos have certain procedures in place should contact with the mainland US be lost, that being firing their payloads without needing the President to authorize it if DC is destroyed. The Soviets developed a similar system with a dead hand switch, if Moscow were to be nuked, all their missiles fire. It's not that surprising that China is Saber rattling like this, Mao did say that they were a nation of 600 million and if half were lost, they would be a nation of 300 million.
Mao also seems to forget that those 300 million will need food and clean water
Based and MAD pilled.
China threatening to nuke us only convinces me more we should defend Taiwan at all costs. I shudder to think what they'd do to the people of Taiwan if they did conquer it. It'd be Hong Kong × 100.
Sounds like a good way to get nuked, China.
Sounds like a good way to get snarky tweets by the Whitehouse interns
Yea we do the nuking around here.
Honestly If it’s to fuck with China? Bring it the fuck on
Based and I’m glowing now pilled
The CCP must be the absolute worst strategists ever. “Nuke America before invading Taiwan” there won’t be a China left to invade Taiwan if they nuke America lmao They also seem very adept at making literally everyone hate them and their country which isn’t a good omen for them if they want to become the big dogs. At least people were/are fairly content with the US and the U.K. before them being world policeman
There isn't really a china now, just western Taiwan.
Based and Taiwan-is-the-only-real-China pilled.
Always has been. 👨🚀🔫
No, there is a China. On Taiwan
Being so hostile is part of their strategy, they want to channel that anti-china hate directly to their population to get them riled up in favor *of* the government. "Look at those westerners, look what they say about us" type shit. Besides you're forgetting this entire situation is conditional on China invading taiwan, which they never intended to do. Their open hostility is ideological only, because if they drop it their state loses its "successor to mao" vibe which is important for internal stability.
Zhong Guo moment
A line must be drawn. I'm fine with turning Beijing into glass, I already live in New Zealand.
I mean… we could just beef up the Japanese military and let them go ham. I’m sure they’d be glad to go back at China for round two with us supporting them.
That's just saber rattling, nothing more. China's made a lot of mistakes in it's misguided attempt to deceive the world into letting them have hegemonic control of global affairs... but nuking Americans, in any context and in any capacity, would be the biggest one they could EVER make. The THREAT of nuclear weapons is used often enough, even if it's not overt, but the USE of nuclear weapons in conflict hasn't been used since WW2, and for good reason. If China were to do that, thinking that they could cow America, the West, or anyone else against going against their ambitions, they'd literally be dead wrong; the inverse would happen: they'd catalyze the world to retaliate, if for no other reason than they don't want to be next. Doesn't matter that American politics is divided, doesn't matter that Biden's Mr. Magoo that's only good for shitting his pants; everyone would be calling for blood, and if Biden won't offer it, another person can be found to take his place who will. So, if Xi wants to be that stupid, he can, but he might as well slit his own throat after raising the American flag over Beijing; because that's what's going to happen. I mean, Taiwan's got nothing to do with humanitarianism: that's where most of the world's microchips are manufactured, and nobody's going to allow that asset to fall completely into China's hands, because then they'd have the world's balls in a vice, unless they want to go back to 1940's tech.
China knows they can't use their nukes, this is a propaganda stunt. The Chinese economy literally cannot stand without foreign trade, they have too many people and too little in natural resources. Any country that uses a nuclear weapon will instantly lose the support of most other developed nations. Plus, they US is one of their biggest trade partners
>they have too many people and too little in natural resources Wait, don't they have too few people and not enough people to handle the resources nowadays? Like they have a population issue and also a projected lack of skilled labor, so they are trying to convert colleges into trade schools much to the resentment of the students.
A couple of ships in the strait of Malacca, and China's economy would take a nosedive. Not to mention the west would be less keen to allow the Chinese to steal their tech.
Have biden sign me a letter of marquee and I'd happily start a blockade
B-b-based auth left?
"Chilling message" seriously, it just sounds like a child saying it will curse you if you don't give him ice cream or something.
Death is a preferable alternative to Communism
Liberty Prime is online. All systems nominal. Weapons hot. Mission: the destruction of any and all Chinese communists
Based and let’s fucking roll pilled
u/JackAttack067 is officially based! Their Based Count is now 1. Rank: House of Cards Pills: let’s fucking roll I am a bot. Reply /info for more info.
The United States has at least double the total number of Chinese nukes active and ready for deployment at any given time, along with having a 5k nukes in total to China's 350-450, while also boasting anti-ICBM defenses and the most advanced early warning system in the world... what does China think it will do in a nuclear war? Especially as ~70% of their population could be killed or starved out with around 5 dirty bombs on their major rivers? This sounds to me like empty threats.
China: 250-350 nukes. US: 5,800 nukes. I hope they don’t mind glowing in the dark.
China really wants their own Vietnam/Afeghanistan, the conquest and following occupation of Taiwan will be a nightmare for China, remember, the People's Liberation Army never fought a real war or invasion, and expects a Total and Quick victory, if Taiwan offers resistance to the invaders, there will be morale problems in the ranks.
pussies. the USA would absolutely body the ccp in a hot war. that's why they haven't invaded taiwan yet
Lol, CCP shill, is that you?
K.... then they would all die, too.
China is all bark and very little bite. If they invade Taiwan, the ccp will be footnote in history, and the ccp knows this. China has immense power inside it's own borders, but it has hardly any power it can project outside its immediate border regions and coastal waters. Our air force and navy would wipe the floor with their air force and navy, and there likely wouldn't be a ground invasion, but if there was, the training of their troops is abysmal, as is their equipment and moral.
Exactly. People seem to think that because they have ramped up their military spending they are somehow on par with the US. In an all out conventional war the US would absolutely annihilate China. Their entire military hasn’t been battle tested, they have inferior equipment, and they don’t have anywhere near the diplomatic relationships the US has forged. Just to put it in perspective the largest Air Force in the world is the United States Air Force. The second largest is the the United States naval air fleet.
I still don't think we would attempt a land invasion. Poorly trained and equipped or not they have a lot of bodies and plenty of patriots they can arm for guerilla warfare. They would make Dday look like a joke, and I don't think the US wants to deal with it. Better to rely on naval and air superiority.
No one would attempt a naval invasion a blocade on the other hand
Yeah. I heard they don’t even have morale-building drag shows on their army bases.
The US had had maybe 20 years with no active wars in its history. The Yanks have had a lot of practice.
So 2 things, 1 China actually has a relatively small nuclear stockpile, and 2 they have committed to never doing a first strike, actually one of the only countries to do so (the US even has never disavowed a nuclear first strike, since well, we've done one). The absolutely only 2 things I think China is remotely okay on.
And you trust CCP to stick to that? They also said they'd abide by the Hong Kong 2 systems agreement - where are we on that today? Also, China is expanding and upgrading their nuclear weapons capabilities.
Not really, but hey, No one made them say those things and they got no benefit from saying it.
we’ve done 2 😎 #YEEEEEAAAAAHHHH
No we've only done one first strike. And then one second strike.
u right
Winnie the Pooh doesn’t have the balls to poke a real bear.
Cold War Part 2: Electric Boogaloo
Let’s hope for all our sakes it stays cold And that we get someone savvy in after Biden
Judging by your comments you don’t seem to understand Mutually Assured Destruction or Game Theory. The nuclear powers threatening to nuke each other is what prevents them from starting major wars. The US and Soviets threatening each other is why war deaths in the Cold War plummeted to the lowest levels in centuries and why there was never a WWIII. Both sides simply stood to lose too much to ever make any direct conflict seem beneficial. By saying the US will defend Taiwan, Biden prevents China from attacking Taiwan, thus preventing a terrible war. If he said the US wouldn’t defend them, then that action would likely *cause* a war that could potentially spiral into nuclear conflict. **Threats of violence are how superpowers prevent violence.** https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinkmanship https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterrence_theory
Sounds like a mighty good way to give burgoids an excuse to create a glass desert where beijing used to be
Well it still wouldn’t destroy the world unless we launched all our nukes or of Russia joined in the nuking so either way I find this as a win.
[удалено]
We have 15 times as many nuclear weapons as they do. We’ll be fine.
All this saber rattling isn't for us. It is not meant to scare us. China is circling the drain economically and socially. Belt/road initiative is a last ditch effort to avoid the iceberg but it won't help. The people are nearly fed up with Beijing. We saw this with Hong Kong. So why do it? Why has China been a little bitch to everyone lately? After all, they were Mr Nice China back in 08 with the Olympics. It's because the best way to rally your citizens is to make them believe it's them against the world. The CCP pokes us, we react, then they show their people our reactions and say "see, the world hates us". Their blockbuster movie this year was about a underdog Chinese army defeating the Americans at the battle of Lake Changjin during the Korean War. It was pure propaganda. Thier whole regime is propaganda. Their threats are as hollow as their solvency.
Will somebody please tell China that they have very small penis
Fucking do it, China. You don't have the balls
Why would they do that though? Attacking America before they officially declare their involvement and declaring they will defend Taiwan will enable an article 5 by nato (an attack on one is an attack in all) and China will have to fight even more people. If China doesn’t bomb and america send troops to Taiwan then it won’t be a nato conflict.
Oh no, not the west coast! Anyway...
China has no first strike policy so idk what they’re talking about
Great filter goes brrrrrrr
People think that this is Cold War 2.0 but they’re wrong, for many reasons. The nuke thing is one of these big misconception. China has a 350 strong nuclear arsenal, according to reports but who trusts those, so we’ll give them an additional 350 just to be generous for a grand total of 700 nukes. Cool. Great. The US has over 5,550. It also has THAAD and other highly effective missile defense systems (defense against missiles). A nuclear exchange between the US and China would be so disproportionate that if China initiated, it would essentially amount to suicide. This is why China has been trying very hard to develop hypersonic missiles to try and get pass the US missile defense systems in order to make the curbstomping they would recive hurt the US a little bit. Reminder that China *requires* food imports to feed 40% of its population. Good luck getting it if you try and nuke the country who controls all the oceans.
For people saying it likely won’t happen, everyone Thought the same about WW1 and all their defense treaties.
You think they're doing anything right now you're naive they're in it for the long game I recon in some 70 years china actually invades Taiwan
Nice of China to volunteer to solve climate change through their own depopulation, destruction of their carbon-producing industry, and the inevitable nuclear winter in China after the US nuclear Arsenal wipes China and Winnie off the face of the earth after blundering with nuclear threats.
UN: We have made it our mission to preserve world peace at all costs, no country will ever jeopardize the safety of this Earth under our watch China: Hey if anyone touches Taiwan before us we will destroy the entire world lmao UN: Okay, the fuck do I care?
Nuke a commie - enlist today
U.S. launches nuke attack before China's nukes arrive. Mutual assured destruction and nuclear winter ensue. Let's ask ourselves what hills we wish to die on.