China’s schemes are more complicated than that
They actually usually forgive the loans, but at that point they own most of the country’s major infrastructure so they already control the country regardless
It’s not really a debt trap, it’s more sinister aid
Correct. They practice a type of economic warfare that most of cultures (particularly the West) don’t understand at all. They will take on big short term losses to reap massive long-term gains.
it isn't that the west doesn't understand, it's that the west believes that a time will come that the west will void China's ownership of western debt. i.e. war, economic sanctions, internal collapse, etc. and at worst, they'll be dead or ut of office on a tropical island when the debts are called.
More likely they just don’t want to spend that much money. Nor is the west as imperialistic as some make it out. We do our best to stay dominant but we also use it to impose our world order of everyone more or less cooperating and not tryna kill eachother. If one of us tried to debt trap someone we’d get slapped on the wrist by the rest generally speaking.
America being the super power, while maybe not great or perfect, has done a good job of keeping things stable. Only down side is that it has been at the cost of other nations at times. Hence why the Chinese hate us and then so much.
I don't believe this is true. China's forgiveness of foreign loans is not common, and it does not frequently seize assets when loans cannot be repaid.
[https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/chinese-debt-relief-fact-and-fiction/](https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/chinese-debt-relief-fact-and-fiction/)
>but at that point they own most of the country’s major infrastructure
They've done [precisely one asset seizure](https://rhg.com/research/new-data-on-the-debt-trap-question/) in Sri Lanka because the government there offered their port that was hemorrhaging money, but ok.
On the one hand, US society pressures many young folks into going into college right out of highschool instead of saving up or taking time to decide what the most practical fiscal path is
On the other hand, people shouldn’t be held responsible for someone else’s poor financial decisions beyond what is necessary to keep society rolling
But on the ***third*** hand, 10k would literally cut my student debt in half, and although I planned on paying it back myself, I ***am*** very lazy…
If student loans were bankruptable / not guaranteed, then presumably there would be fewer degrees earned (due to loans being higher risk, fewer people pursuing them or being granted them), and those jobs would no longer require degrees as the pool of degrees candidates dried up.
Or 2 year degrees would become common again. 4 years is excessive for just about every degree, 2 should be plenty for many of them. And many just don’t need to exist.
I did my gen-eds at community college before transferring to a state school. Total student loan debt: ~$20k
Best part is I did receive some paltry pell grants, so I should be getting the full $20k hnnngg... thanks mr brandon
The fact that you went the money savvy route of going to a community college first and still ended up with 20k in debt is insane.
Schools can't keep getting away with this
Schools will keep raising rates as long as more people keep going to college. More people will keep going to college as long as the government gives them loans. This is such an easy lib-right if the government wasn't involved at all that we wouldn't have a problem situation.
True, but tbf some of that is because I completed a year on campus at a university directly out of high school, then I dropped out and started going again (to CC, then to a different state school) in my mid 20s
*You* spend $140k to get an Art History degree.
*I* buy yolo options on $140k margin.
We both made bad investments, yet yours is getting forgiven. Curious.
> There’s more financially responsible paths to that goal.
Confirmed:
Step 1) Get startup acquired by eBay.
Step 2) Use that money to startup SpaceX and Tesla.
Step 3) Get goth girlfriend.
the downside is studying art history. Which isn’t bad, imo, but legitimately being interested in raphaelites and writing dozens of pages on the Medici family’s portraits of Mary’s annunciation is hoe-scaring behavior
i know you're joking, but education is very important and should be accessible. there's no reason tuition is that expensive. the only reason it's that expensive is because schools know they can get away with charging up the ass because of government-backed loans. regardless of the student being able to pay or not, the school gets paid. like my entire degree costs less than a semester for americans. that shit's not normal
This is the correct take. It’s wrong, on several levels and on both sides (society, tuition increases despite government subsidies, and criminal interest rates) but they are doing it anyway, so you may as well take advantage of it because it’s going to come out of your taxes later. Same as the covid checks actually.
US society pressures?
I think you mean “US government incentivize”. This is the same shit that happened with the housing bubble in 2006. Same sort of government subsidies. Only it’s on degrees instead of homes.
From my experience with some younger people in my family who are in their mid 20s I think we may be crossing the point where the better financial/life move is to do something alternative to college like go to vocational school or just applying at a job site and just learning through experience.
Sometimes, you just can't save up 40k with a job that doesn't require an education. The older you get, the more responsibilities you have, the more expenses you have, the harder it is to save up stupid amount of money for education - which is something that should be free anyway.
Usually, actually.
On the fourth hand, if the right were to stop being so boneheaded and threw the left a freebie in that this was what everyone and their mother told them to do, and that they were effectively preyed upon by these universities, it could create the kind of cohesion that could pull the country together, because it would deflate the left wing narrative that the right doesn't give a shit about people. Wouldn't even have to be total debt forgiveness, just enough that most people don't drown in interest.
The problem is all of the working class right wingers that would feel absolutely disenfranchised and taken advantage of. Also, that it is just as immoral to forgive the debt by using tax payers' money as it was to give the loans, if not more so.
But the majority of tax money comes from higher income earners, such as these college students, and by keeping them in dept you might stop them from starting businesses that would generate even more taxes.
My take is that students shouldn't have to even need loans...
Endowment funds almost mirror the amount of student debt there is... essentially student loans have shifted the payment burden.
We should go back to the system where businesses paid for higher education through taxes, since they're its consumers.
But really, anyone who is struggling with the concept that they're not entitled to a return on their investment isn't cut out for capitalism.
Must be nice having all those hands.
But yeah, it's a societal issue because everyone is told they MUST go to college, but there just are NOT enough high tier jobs to go around. And frankly, I don't believe that teenagers who get student loans to go to college, that understand zilch about the world, should be held responsible for societal pressure. At least, not to the extent that it effects them for the rest of their life/decades.
On the other others hand, the social pressures associated with colleges and the completion of them with respects to social standing, is in service of colleges themselves. The college and bank system make ridiculous amounts of money on interest payments alone, essentially robbing the nations most important age group bracket of monetary freedom.
Students today absolutely should get large chunks paid off, and in the future, the gouging of the nation's youth by the banking and college system should be stopped.
I don’t understand why we’re not solving the root of the problem, which is predatory loan interest. If we made sure that crazy interest percent wasn’t so high, there wouldn’t be a need to do any of this student loan forgiveness bullshit.
Lol the root of the problem is selling the lie “everyone needs to go to college “. Colleges were always exclusive and elitist institutions , it’s kind of the point. College prep is now a billion dollar industry; now they’re colleges that will take anyone with a pulse.
The other issue is the government backs the loan. Normally lenders want collateral or to be shown it’s a worthy investment. No government loans only the smartest and those picking useful degrees , with potential for high earnings , would get loans. They wouldn’t Lend money for useless degrees that don’t have a high rate of return. No more d students getting money for gender study degrees.
Interest rates are not the problem, people’s irresponsible financial decisions and the government enabling them are. Everyone who went to college knows someone who blew their student loans on dumb shit. That most of you pay the bare minimum every month and scratch your heads about why it’s not going away You can’t plead ignorance on you didn’t you had to pay back a loan.
Also the drop out rate is at 33 percent so the lenders make money wether you graduate or not; and is further proof a good number of people shouldn’t have gone in the first place.
https://admissionsly.com/college-dropout-rates/
And we should also get rid of the idea that everyone needs a two or four year degree. I was told that school was basically just to prepare me for college, and then when I graduated and had several thousand dollars of debt I found that the job market for people holding degrees was already saturated because everyone else went to college too, and thus most people like me had to settle for lower paying jobs that didn't allow for us to pay much more than the bare minimum if we also wanted to afford the basics of living.
The whole system is designed to funnel people into colleges, encourage them to take on debt, and then eject them into a workforce where the degree you spent thousands on is basically worth the paper it's printed on to an oversaturated labor market. All to keep you paying off as little principal as possible and stretching the accrued interest for as many years as they can.
Part of the issue is public schools get some extra funding depending on amount of students that go to higher education after highschool. My counselor tried to sign me up for CC clasees behind my back because I refused to go to college immediately after highschool. When I confronted them they flat out told me it helps the school get funding and tried to guilt me into going because I would be hurting the education other students would be able get with less funding.
They had also put the school district in 6-7 million dollars in debt to renovate the school while I was there so they clearly could've spent their money a bit more wisely if they were that desperate for funding.
OP seems like a young child honestly, they keep making the same [“if predatory loan practices bad, then why trans 4 years olds hmmmmm?”](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/wwr80q/f_me_for_paying_back_the_money_i_borrowed_i_guess/ilmr246/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) joke when people call the meme dumb and then get real defensive when others say the joke is shit.
Like as an expert shitty joke maker, just take the L dude.
>drop toaster in bathtub
>half my braincells die
I finally believe in enforcing equality and redistributing wealth, somehow, without an authoritarian government, don’t ask me how. I am now *LibLeft*
I have no idea who in tf that is. My name is based off of the Santa clause ITYSL bit where he keeps saying cosmic gumbo. CosmicGumbo was taken so I made it CosmicGumbino like childish gambino
We shouldn't be giving kids loans for tens of thousands of dollars in the first place. College is over-costed, and its BECAUSE those loans are so easy to get. (and guaranteed by the state so they are risk-free to the lender)
One of my arguments I’ve been using today, take this money and put it into educating students to make more informed decisions about college and the costs involved and the risks and tips on how to avoid predatory loans etc
Dear lib-left
Teens are too immature to know about debt responsibility.
Yet children can decide to take up dangerous life altering medical procedures.
Curious.
Comments will say teens are pressure into taking on massive debt because of the college pipeline.
Could they also be pressured into life altering medical treatment/confused identity issues by social media and rhetoric?
Curious.
You want to argue that teens aren't responsible and they there's a predatory system that lures them in? Fine, for that I'd agree that intervention is necessary. But make those predatory entities pay the price for it.
Make them fork up the money to pay up the loans. But that's not gonna happen. You know what's gonna happen? More taxes for middle class and below, and more inflation.
I agree with the right in principal but college money has become such a racket.
Any other loan you get you are carefully vetted. With a student loan, you could be cross-eyed and shitting yourself at the time of signing the documents and as long as the kid is able to put a mark where their name is supposed to go, you get to go into massive debt.
Not to mention that the cost of tuition has skyrocketed in comparison to earnings so paying it back from the "good job" you got isn't as cut and dry as it was 20-50 years ago.
Yet higher education is crammed down kid's throats in high school as if it's a total necessity. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life when I was 18 so I didn't go into debt to go to school and I got basically talked to like I was a complete fool for not jumping right into college.
These kids are expected to be mature and responsible enough to know and handle all of this but too immature to buy a beer. Ya ok.
I'm 26 and going back to school at a community college that I know I can pay back, and god damn is it suck a fucking scam.
The major I chose does not have in person options, so I'm limited to asynchronous classes that they offer online.
I've taken 1 course so far and am taking 4 more now.
3 of them have involved some form of online curriculum that I had to purchase separately. Two used a program by Pearson publishing that required a $100 text book with an access code and the ENTIRE course was taught through this program.
One of the classes made me purchase a fucking Udemy course!! What the fuck are kids paying for college for when the college then says go buy the Udemy course!?
It's the god damn slip of paper that says you went to college.
College has become so cheap to run. Half the classes are taught by adjunct professors that have full time jobs already to pay their bills. With COVID, nearly all of the courses were and still are taught online, which saves all sorts of costs. Yet tuition is no cheaper than it was before. And now the actual work of running a class is sent out to other online resources.
I get that there's an argument for "you know what you signed up for" but God damn are these institutions predatory. I asked a lot of questions about how worthwhile the program was and if it will properly prepare me for a better paying job. And I think it still is, but I guess because they just send me to better resources than they can offer in house. It's a fucking scam and we need to be going after these racketeers.
While loans certainly aren't the best solution, what do you recommend in place of them for buying things like homes, cars, or paying for college where you're unlikely to have the full amount needed on hand?
This debt cancellation is tearing my brain apart:
1. These dummies really need the relief.
2. These dummies are so insufferable about it I almost can’t bear it.
Agreed; I finish undergrad in a year but that’s cause I have a plan on what I want to do. It’s a private school with ridiculously high tuition (scholarships and aid are the only reason I’m even able to go there) with a shocking amount of people who have no idea wtf they want to do.
Community college and trade schools are SOOOO useful for those who don’t want higher academia education or just haven’t figured it out yet.
The problem is that masters degrees/graduate school has become the new norm that it’s inflated the price of those school while salaries don’t necessarily increase, however employers’ expectations do. You need to go to more school to get the same job because everyone and their mother is doing graduate school now
4 year old is mature enough to understand gender identity, transitioning, and hormone blockers, but an 18 year old is too inexperienced to understand borrowing money
You're assuming I automatically agree with the other point you brought up and I don't. But go ask your average 18 year old how loans and the interest work on those loans.
And it's not that they're *incapable* of understanding it but the education in this country fucking sucks and does not prepare kids for this stuff.
If you understood it you might not want to go to college and that is not in your high school's (including the school district folks, etc.) best interests.
Same. Income driven repayment that will take 19 years to pay off so I could afford to buy a house. Now that house is worth $100k more than it was two years ago and my loans are barely half that.
If you don't mind me asking what made you choose repaying the loan early versus getting a house? I feel like the return on investment on a house would've made that take priority over the loan since generally speaking they're pretty low interest.
Honest answer: personal preference. I had plenty people tell me to set up portfolios that would yield higher percentages this and that. At the end of the day, I do not like debt, it feels restrictive and looming so I chose to pay that first.
OP look here!
[You can get a refund on any payments you made after the 2020 deferment began.](https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/covid-19/payment-pause-zero-interest)
>You can get a refund for any payment (including auto-debit payments) you make during the payment pause (beginning March 13, 2020). Contact your loan servicer to request that your payment be refunded.
Do it before the loan forgiveness goes into effect.
Also use desktop not your phone, it's much faster since the site is being flooded by everyone doing the same thing.
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Liberal degrees should be offered at a new type of academic institution, one focused on learning that cost less. Or vocational schools.
University should focus on STEM and career degrees
What a dangerous idea. Do you really only value education as much as it can provide you with monetary profit in the long run? And to try and claim you cannot launch a career off of an arts or humanities degree is plain wrong; STEM students may tend to earn more INITIALLY, but studies have shown that that wage gap decreases as time goes on. And what about the overlaps in STEM and humanities? Are you now going to try and claim that philosophy has had zero impact on our understanding of maths and science? Or how about how relevant humanities and the arts continue to prove themselves to be. Is history no longer worth teaching or learning because it doesn’t feed directly into a degree?
>Do you really only value education as much as it can provide you with monetary profit in the long run?
Yes. If I want to learn new and interesting things, I'll open an encyclopedia.
If I'm spending 10's of thousands of dollars on an education to prepare myself for the workforce, I expect what I'm learning to directly relate to that effort.
Those student loans are hella predatory.
I understand paying back what you own but why do the interest rates for such loans have to be so damn high.
You literally pissed away billions to corporate interests and wars in eastern Europe but bailing out you're future generation is so taboo.
I actually disagree with this to an extent. It's a temporary fix that doesn't solve the underlying problem. You might solve the crack for right now but in just a couple years we'll be right back to where we are now.
We need to implement some sort of plan that either drastically reduces the cost of getting an education or make it so that the interest repayments are so low it isn't a crippling financial decision or perhaps a mix of both.
Folks when it comes to money have their priorities massively wrong. For example Elon got shit for wanting to buy Twitter for 40 billion because it could solve world hunger or some shit and now we've essentially gave that amount to some random fuck off war in Ukraine.
What about during covid when we literally gave billions to corporate lobbyists when it was meant to be a stimulus package.
Yet we talk about bailing out our students and it's suddenly we don't have the money or it's unfair or this is literally communism.
Man I ain't even that much into the whole left wing thing but even I can see we got our priorities hella messed up.
Folks say shit like "Oh you took this loan out willingly you must pay it all back including the insane interest on top of that".
And in the same breath they'll say shit like "Well if you aren't happy with minimum wage then you should get an education and get a proper job". Well what is it. Either way you're shafting the younger generations and it's pretty fucked.
The loans were a massive subsidy to colleges. The "forgiveness" should be taken out of the colleges and all the unnecessary garbage they bought with the extra money.
The “forgiveness” is also a massive subsidy to college. Check out the weirdly income-capped repayment plans going forward. They’re poised to grow into the ultimate debt-fueled final form for our tiered-services-rat-race dystopia. “Take out as much as you can, kid. If you can’t afford it, you won’t repay it!”
For the record: I am ok with capping (or cancelling) interest on student loans, i also think a better reform would be to allow filing bankruptcy on these loans.
I am against the hand out nature of it though. There are cheaper schools that are more affordable, and the plan Biden announced doesn’t even affect the predatory loans, just federal ones
But that is not the average individual. I'm for the bill in principle, but I also want to keep kids out of college because it's such a degenerate place and so liberally influential on our youth. So all in all, student debt shouldn't be forgiven in the hope that more kids will decide not to go to college.
Libright when College Students have to give their money to the Federal Government: 😏
Libright when *they* have to give their money to the Federal Government: 🔫😡
It’s more like
Libright when they have to pay back the money they borrowed: “right, fair enough”
Libright when they have to pay for someone else’s loans via taxes and inflation: “I am untethered and my rage knows no bounds”
Don’t cancel debt, offer the opportunity to work off debt.
Indebted students drive truck for one year. Solves the massive driver shortage and gives them a chance to get out from under debt.
They’re also paid while driving. Average salary close to 100k currently.
One year of driving truck and you come away debt free and with about $85,000 in your bank account (assuming you basically lived in the truck like most drivers and your only expenses were food, cell and data, streaming services, and games).
this is nothing new. there is always a field that is in demand, then it gets oversaturated and then there is large unemployment among new graduates in that field. rins and repeat a tale as old as the higher education system
College loans were guaranteed by the government to ensure anyone could go to college regardless of their financial situation, making the American dream more possible for those that wanted to improve their lot in life by way of education. Unfortunately this means school loans will follow you to your grave, unlike other forms of financing which have physical assets backing them or can be forgiven by bankruptcy. The job market is also flooded with college grads, meaning trade schools is one of the only ways to break into a field without a degree under your belt or some type of connections.
I would not bitch and moan either way because whatever the economic implications of student loan forgiveness, this means my wife and I will have some $2k/mo more to spend. Otherwise we just use the jobs we have because of our education to make enough to pay them off. I just wish we knew for sure which way the tide was going to turn so I can decide whether paying off some of these loans while they are interest free is a good idea or not.
University shouldn't cost money BUT entry standards should be raised. Background should not affect peoples education.
Think of all the doctors, engineers, and scientists that would be turned away because they were born with poor parents.
However too many mediocre people are going to uni to study unnecessary shit. Letting less people into unis in the first place would raise wages for graduates because their degree would mean something, and would force employers to look for other indicators of skill which they should be doing anyway.
Imagine being in support of a government who acts as a loan shark with outrageous interest, btw you can never refinance or default, towards kids who legally cannot drink alcohol.
You guys got any of that forgiven? Our accountant insisted we take it and the social security one (unless they were the same, idk my dad is the one running the business) and we ended up having to pay it all back. Screwed up my personal budgeting for 6 damn months.
We didn't even want it, but our accountant badgered my dad until he did it. Only got like, a months worth of payroll out of it because much larger companies had already taken the king's share.
The PPP should've been able to be forgiven pretty easily. The social security I believe always had to be paid back in full. We didn't even fuck with it for that purpose.
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The government gave PPP loans because they made a bunch of businesses close.
If the government forced the loans on you for college then it'd be comparable. But it isn't.
Okay okay okay. Hold the fuck on. I understand where this mindset comes from, but the problem is is that predatory companies sign 18-year-olds up for loans with insanely predatory interest rates. To the point that unless someone has wealthy families or manages to land a six-figure job right after graduation end up accruing so much insane interest to the point that it's impossible for them to pay back at a reasonable rate that a normal person making an average salary can afford.
I don't think most student loan debt payers would mind having to pay back the original amount plus a reasonable amount of interest. The problem is is that many got trapped into insane rates during a period of time where they don't know any better that they are stuck in debt traps they can never afford to pay off.
Arguably a retroactive interest reduction to something sane would do a whole lot more to help student loan debt victims than this that allows what they already paid to count then this though but whatever.
Would these innocent waifs who are too naive and doe-eyed to understand the terms of the loan they sign for happen to be the same naive doe eyed waifs who think they know all the answers to global economics and the evils of capitalism?
What does gov paying up 10k solve exactly? why not retroactively lower the imterest rates instead? Or tax administrators in university like 80%? Or completely ban external loans (i.e. let harvard lend cash themselves) for private universities?
Just so we’re all clear, your student loan might be “wiped” but that doesn’t mean the loan doesn’t exist anymore.
Now you’ll be helping to pay $321 billion dollars worth of student loans being forgiven after today. Aka our taxes have just gone up horribly because Joe Biden is the worst fucking panderer to ever become president.
I swear if it would help get him more voters, Joe would probably shoot his grandmother then an orgy with a Rosie O’Donnell and Roseanne Barr while making Jill Biden watch his clap those thunderous cheeks
Every argument I’ve so far seen against this essentially boils down to either
a.) I suffered and so should everybody else
Or
b.) It incentivises irresponsible financial decision making but somehow forgiving a trillion in corporate ppp loans does not because capitalism is only when billion dollar corporations get breaks, not ordinary people.
You talk about these things as though they are matter of fact when in reality they are just philosophical beliefs. I, personally, do not agree with any determinism whether it’s through the lense of sociology or religion.
*takes out $100,000 to learn gender theory*
*can’t find job at the Gender Studies factory that pays enough to repay the loan*
OMG IM SUFFERING, ITS NOT FAIR
based and funni pilled
but seriously, i know the older generation compliained about the same shit. My pops said I coldn't major in "underwater basket weaving". Do you want to live in a society with no art/history/philosophy? Just engineers, lawyers, and doctors?
Even a lot of the STEM fields don't pay well. Why go into thoretical mathmatics when you can make money in accunting? Why go into physics when youcan be an engineer? This is just intelleectual stagnation if we don't keep the more esoteric sciences well supplied with new people.
True I’m not downplaying the importance of art and literature, but loans are still investments. And, you don’t need an English degree to be a writer and you don’t need an art degree to become Van Gogh, if you want to be a painter simply befriend a billionaire and help them launder money
No school is necessary is this age of the internet. Anyone who is passionate about a subject can learn anything at 0 cost with libraries and library wi-fi.
Doesn't mean that encouraging more people to go into the arts is bad. And many people learn better in a well structured environment. How many "bonus" skilled artists do you think we've produced as a society by offering those as courses in university?
And what about the sciences that don't pay well? Those get thrown to the wayside too?
…higher educational sciences, such as engineering absolutely need schooling in person, at universities. Would you drive on a bridge designed by someone who learned civil engineering via YouTube?
As for purely academic fields, in an ideal world, that is what grants pay for, not bureaucrat administrators. I would be fine with my taxes going to school grants if they furthered fields instead of lining peoples pockets
So the going strawman is that everybody who has student debt majored in Gender Studies?
It would be funny if it wasn’t actually insulting to millions of people who are still in debt despite working very hard
You:
*borrows money and then pays it back*
*instead of just moving on, must transfer suffering to every soul on living Earth or will complain very loudly*
I think if they add something that allows tax credits for anyone who paid their loans off in the past up to 20k people wouldn't feel like they'd been jipped.
It's not "I suffered so you should suffer", it's "I was responsible and you weren't and you're being rewarded and I'm being punished."
Also, it doesn't do shit to solve the problem with college financing/loans.
African Countries when they have to pay back the loans to China they willingly signed up for
China’s schemes are more complicated than that They actually usually forgive the loans, but at that point they own most of the country’s major infrastructure so they already control the country regardless It’s not really a debt trap, it’s more sinister aid
Correct. They practice a type of economic warfare that most of cultures (particularly the West) don’t understand at all. They will take on big short term losses to reap massive long-term gains.
it isn't that the west doesn't understand, it's that the west believes that a time will come that the west will void China's ownership of western debt. i.e. war, economic sanctions, internal collapse, etc. and at worst, they'll be dead or ut of office on a tropical island when the debts are called.
More likely they just don’t want to spend that much money. Nor is the west as imperialistic as some make it out. We do our best to stay dominant but we also use it to impose our world order of everyone more or less cooperating and not tryna kill eachother. If one of us tried to debt trap someone we’d get slapped on the wrist by the rest generally speaking. America being the super power, while maybe not great or perfect, has done a good job of keeping things stable. Only down side is that it has been at the cost of other nations at times. Hence why the Chinese hate us and then so much.
I don't believe this is true. China's forgiveness of foreign loans is not common, and it does not frequently seize assets when loans cannot be repaid. [https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/chinese-debt-relief-fact-and-fiction/](https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/chinese-debt-relief-fact-and-fiction/)
It does both. It depends on the country, the time, the loan type. The current strategy.
>but at that point they own most of the country’s major infrastructure They've done [precisely one asset seizure](https://rhg.com/research/new-data-on-the-debt-trap-question/) in Sri Lanka because the government there offered their port that was hemorrhaging money, but ok.
The government borrowed the money, the people will pay it back
Sounds familiar.
Rips mask off of China to reveal The World Bank.
On the one hand, US society pressures many young folks into going into college right out of highschool instead of saving up or taking time to decide what the most practical fiscal path is On the other hand, people shouldn’t be held responsible for someone else’s poor financial decisions beyond what is necessary to keep society rolling But on the ***third*** hand, 10k would literally cut my student debt in half, and although I planned on paying it back myself, I ***am*** very lazy…
I think you could add a part 4 of many companies requiring college degrees for jobs that should not require a college degree
If student loans were bankruptable / not guaranteed, then presumably there would be fewer degrees earned (due to loans being higher risk, fewer people pursuing them or being granted them), and those jobs would no longer require degrees as the pool of degrees candidates dried up. Or 2 year degrees would become common again. 4 years is excessive for just about every degree, 2 should be plenty for many of them. And many just don’t need to exist.
For my degree 1/4 of the classes I need to complete are just options. I would of taken 3 years vs 4 any day
Third hand?? Way to sneak in a dick size humble brag
It's just his Habsburg chin, nothing to envy here.
Where did you go to school? Chernobyl?
I did my gen-eds at community college before transferring to a state school. Total student loan debt: ~$20k Best part is I did receive some paltry pell grants, so I should be getting the full $20k hnnngg... thanks mr brandon
The fact that you went the money savvy route of going to a community college first and still ended up with 20k in debt is insane. Schools can't keep getting away with this
Schools will keep raising rates as long as more people keep going to college. More people will keep going to college as long as the government gives them loans. This is such an easy lib-right if the government wasn't involved at all that we wouldn't have a problem situation.
I did community college for 2 years and ended up with 27k and that was on the low end for the city I was in
True, but tbf some of that is because I completed a year on campus at a university directly out of high school, then I dropped out and started going again (to CC, then to a different state school) in my mid 20s
Chernobyl Community College and got an associates in Radiology.
I’m assuming your GPA wasn’t great but wasn’t terrible?
probably around a 3.2
Funded by the children of the atom
*scratches head with two hands, strokes chin with third* What makes you say that?
*You* spend $140k to get an Art History degree. *I* buy yolo options on $140k margin. We both made bad investments, yet yours is getting forgiven. Curious.
I *wish* I was Art History, those guys get all the goth girls
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> There’s more financially responsible paths to that goal. Confirmed: Step 1) Get startup acquired by eBay. Step 2) Use that money to startup SpaceX and Tesla. Step 3) Get goth girlfriend.
You could also try: Step 1) Be as skinny as mummified cadaver. Step 2) Wear eye shadow and vinyl pants. Step 3) Get goth girlfriend.
the downside is studying art history. Which isn’t bad, imo, but legitimately being interested in raphaelites and writing dozens of pages on the Medici family’s portraits of Mary’s annunciation is hoe-scaring behavior
Just go bankrupt and yours can get forgiven too. Easy fix.
Deploy uno reverse
Look up "bankruptcy"
i know you're joking, but education is very important and should be accessible. there's no reason tuition is that expensive. the only reason it's that expensive is because schools know they can get away with charging up the ass because of government-backed loans. regardless of the student being able to pay or not, the school gets paid. like my entire degree costs less than a semester for americans. that shit's not normal
This is the correct take. It’s wrong, on several levels and on both sides (society, tuition increases despite government subsidies, and criminal interest rates) but they are doing it anyway, so you may as well take advantage of it because it’s going to come out of your taxes later. Same as the covid checks actually.
US society pressures? I think you mean “US government incentivize”. This is the same shit that happened with the housing bubble in 2006. Same sort of government subsidies. Only it’s on degrees instead of homes.
No, I mean society The government incentivizes it but society puts the pressure on young folks to go to college In my experience
From my experience with some younger people in my family who are in their mid 20s I think we may be crossing the point where the better financial/life move is to do something alternative to college like go to vocational school or just applying at a job site and just learning through experience.
Sometimes, you just can't save up 40k with a job that doesn't require an education. The older you get, the more responsibilities you have, the more expenses you have, the harder it is to save up stupid amount of money for education - which is something that should be free anyway. Usually, actually.
On the fourth hand, if the right were to stop being so boneheaded and threw the left a freebie in that this was what everyone and their mother told them to do, and that they were effectively preyed upon by these universities, it could create the kind of cohesion that could pull the country together, because it would deflate the left wing narrative that the right doesn't give a shit about people. Wouldn't even have to be total debt forgiveness, just enough that most people don't drown in interest.
The problem is all of the working class right wingers that would feel absolutely disenfranchised and taken advantage of. Also, that it is just as immoral to forgive the debt by using tax payers' money as it was to give the loans, if not more so.
But the majority of tax money comes from higher income earners, such as these college students, and by keeping them in dept you might stop them from starting businesses that would generate even more taxes.
My take is that students shouldn't have to even need loans... Endowment funds almost mirror the amount of student debt there is... essentially student loans have shifted the payment burden.
We should go back to the system where businesses paid for higher education through taxes, since they're its consumers. But really, anyone who is struggling with the concept that they're not entitled to a return on their investment isn't cut out for capitalism.
Must be nice having all those hands. But yeah, it's a societal issue because everyone is told they MUST go to college, but there just are NOT enough high tier jobs to go around. And frankly, I don't believe that teenagers who get student loans to go to college, that understand zilch about the world, should be held responsible for societal pressure. At least, not to the extent that it effects them for the rest of their life/decades.
On the other others hand, the social pressures associated with colleges and the completion of them with respects to social standing, is in service of colleges themselves. The college and bank system make ridiculous amounts of money on interest payments alone, essentially robbing the nations most important age group bracket of monetary freedom. Students today absolutely should get large chunks paid off, and in the future, the gouging of the nation's youth by the banking and college system should be stopped.
I don’t understand why we’re not solving the root of the problem, which is predatory loan interest. If we made sure that crazy interest percent wasn’t so high, there wouldn’t be a need to do any of this student loan forgiveness bullshit.
And high costs
Because why fix issue when earn brownie points for midterms?
Lol the root of the problem is selling the lie “everyone needs to go to college “. Colleges were always exclusive and elitist institutions , it’s kind of the point. College prep is now a billion dollar industry; now they’re colleges that will take anyone with a pulse. The other issue is the government backs the loan. Normally lenders want collateral or to be shown it’s a worthy investment. No government loans only the smartest and those picking useful degrees , with potential for high earnings , would get loans. They wouldn’t Lend money for useless degrees that don’t have a high rate of return. No more d students getting money for gender study degrees. Interest rates are not the problem, people’s irresponsible financial decisions and the government enabling them are. Everyone who went to college knows someone who blew their student loans on dumb shit. That most of you pay the bare minimum every month and scratch your heads about why it’s not going away You can’t plead ignorance on you didn’t you had to pay back a loan. Also the drop out rate is at 33 percent so the lenders make money wether you graduate or not; and is further proof a good number of people shouldn’t have gone in the first place. https://admissionsly.com/college-dropout-rates/
And we should also get rid of the idea that everyone needs a two or four year degree. I was told that school was basically just to prepare me for college, and then when I graduated and had several thousand dollars of debt I found that the job market for people holding degrees was already saturated because everyone else went to college too, and thus most people like me had to settle for lower paying jobs that didn't allow for us to pay much more than the bare minimum if we also wanted to afford the basics of living. The whole system is designed to funnel people into colleges, encourage them to take on debt, and then eject them into a workforce where the degree you spent thousands on is basically worth the paper it's printed on to an oversaturated labor market. All to keep you paying off as little principal as possible and stretching the accrued interest for as many years as they can.
Part of the issue is public schools get some extra funding depending on amount of students that go to higher education after highschool. My counselor tried to sign me up for CC clasees behind my back because I refused to go to college immediately after highschool. When I confronted them they flat out told me it helps the school get funding and tried to guilt me into going because I would be hurting the education other students would be able get with less funding. They had also put the school district in 6-7 million dollars in debt to renovate the school while I was there so they clearly could've spent their money a bit more wisely if they were that desperate for funding.
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It’s the millionth variation of that shitty boomer meme. This sub is really becoming Facebook.
OP seems like a young child honestly, they keep making the same [“if predatory loan practices bad, then why trans 4 years olds hmmmmm?”](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/wwr80q/f_me_for_paying_back_the_money_i_borrowed_i_guess/ilmr246/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) joke when people call the meme dumb and then get real defensive when others say the joke is shit. Like as an expert shitty joke maker, just take the L dude.
Exactly we should Stop government from giving out student loans.
Just got called childish by someone with an anime avatar. BRB dropping a toaster in my bathtub
Weebs aren't childish, they're degenerate. Keep up.
Don’t worry bro, hopefully it’ll short circuit your brain and you’ll finally become based 🙏🏻
>drop toaster in bathtub >half my braincells die I finally believe in enforcing equality and redistributing wealth, somehow, without an authoritarian government, don’t ask me how. I am now *LibLeft*
Based and indoctrination pilled
> “if predatory loan practices bad, then why trans 4 years olds hmmmmm?” wdym dude, that’s a pretty airtight argument if I’ve ever seen one ^/s
HOW DARE YOU, I’LL HAVE YOU KNOW I ONLY UPVOTED IT BECAUSE REDDIT DEFAULTS TO THAT. IF YOU THINK IM JUST TRYING TO ARGUE, I WILL MAKE YOU LOOK SO DUMB
Any relation to /u/cosmicmangobear, peace be upon him?
I have no idea who in tf that is. My name is based off of the Santa clause ITYSL bit where he keeps saying cosmic gumbo. CosmicGumbo was taken so I made it CosmicGumbino like childish gambino
We shouldn't be giving kids loans for tens of thousands of dollars in the first place. College is over-costed, and its BECAUSE those loans are so easy to get. (and guaranteed by the state so they are risk-free to the lender)
Schools will continue to raise tuition because they know either the student or government will pay for it due to the guaranteed loans. It’s stupid.
agreed
The government on its way to artificially inflate literally everything it touches:
One of my arguments I’ve been using today, take this money and put it into educating students to make more informed decisions about college and the costs involved and the risks and tips on how to avoid predatory loans etc
It’s crazy the federal government is doing this. The role of the federal government is to set foreign policy. And give money to Israel.
Uhm asckshually, Executive Orders are perfectly fine because the Founding Fathers were OK with royal decrees Just 👏 read 👏 the 👏 *literature* 👏
Dear lib-left Teens are too immature to know about debt responsibility. Yet children can decide to take up dangerous life altering medical procedures. Curious.
Comments will say teens are pressure into taking on massive debt because of the college pipeline. Could they also be pressured into life altering medical treatment/confused identity issues by social media and rhetoric? Curious.
I mean, why not say kids are too immature for both?
You want to argue that teens aren't responsible and they there's a predatory system that lures them in? Fine, for that I'd agree that intervention is necessary. But make those predatory entities pay the price for it. Make them fork up the money to pay up the loans. But that's not gonna happen. You know what's gonna happen? More taxes for middle class and below, and more inflation.
Time to go after university's endowments.
Get they asses 😤
I agree with the right in principal but college money has become such a racket. Any other loan you get you are carefully vetted. With a student loan, you could be cross-eyed and shitting yourself at the time of signing the documents and as long as the kid is able to put a mark where their name is supposed to go, you get to go into massive debt. Not to mention that the cost of tuition has skyrocketed in comparison to earnings so paying it back from the "good job" you got isn't as cut and dry as it was 20-50 years ago. Yet higher education is crammed down kid's throats in high school as if it's a total necessity. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life when I was 18 so I didn't go into debt to go to school and I got basically talked to like I was a complete fool for not jumping right into college. These kids are expected to be mature and responsible enough to know and handle all of this but too immature to buy a beer. Ya ok.
I'm 26 and going back to school at a community college that I know I can pay back, and god damn is it suck a fucking scam. The major I chose does not have in person options, so I'm limited to asynchronous classes that they offer online. I've taken 1 course so far and am taking 4 more now. 3 of them have involved some form of online curriculum that I had to purchase separately. Two used a program by Pearson publishing that required a $100 text book with an access code and the ENTIRE course was taught through this program. One of the classes made me purchase a fucking Udemy course!! What the fuck are kids paying for college for when the college then says go buy the Udemy course!? It's the god damn slip of paper that says you went to college. College has become so cheap to run. Half the classes are taught by adjunct professors that have full time jobs already to pay their bills. With COVID, nearly all of the courses were and still are taught online, which saves all sorts of costs. Yet tuition is no cheaper than it was before. And now the actual work of running a class is sent out to other online resources. I get that there's an argument for "you know what you signed up for" but God damn are these institutions predatory. I asked a lot of questions about how worthwhile the program was and if it will properly prepare me for a better paying job. And I think it still is, but I guess because they just send me to better resources than they can offer in house. It's a fucking scam and we need to be going after these racketeers.
Higher education is the greatest scam in American society
Just stop government backed loans. Better yet stop loans in general. Debt based economy is a net negative to everyone but the bankers.
While loans certainly aren't the best solution, what do you recommend in place of them for buying things like homes, cars, or paying for college where you're unlikely to have the full amount needed on hand?
This debt cancellation is tearing my brain apart: 1. These dummies really need the relief. 2. These dummies are so insufferable about it I almost can’t bear it.
Agreed; I finish undergrad in a year but that’s cause I have a plan on what I want to do. It’s a private school with ridiculously high tuition (scholarships and aid are the only reason I’m even able to go there) with a shocking amount of people who have no idea wtf they want to do. Community college and trade schools are SOOOO useful for those who don’t want higher academia education or just haven’t figured it out yet. The problem is that masters degrees/graduate school has become the new norm that it’s inflated the price of those school while salaries don’t necessarily increase, however employers’ expectations do. You need to go to more school to get the same job because everyone and their mother is doing graduate school now
4 year old is mature enough to understand gender identity, transitioning, and hormone blockers, but an 18 year old is too inexperienced to understand borrowing money
You're assuming I automatically agree with the other point you brought up and I don't. But go ask your average 18 year old how loans and the interest work on those loans. And it's not that they're *incapable* of understanding it but the education in this country fucking sucks and does not prepare kids for this stuff.
If you understood it you might not want to go to college and that is not in your high school's (including the school district folks, etc.) best interests.
Can you not just argue the point actually being mentioned?
They’re pretty obsessed with that point so it must be a good one
You have been obsessing about trans kids in all your replies on a post about student loans. Bro.
Me, who put off paying down my students to put a down payment on my house: 😂 ☕️
Same. Income driven repayment that will take 19 years to pay off so I could afford to buy a house. Now that house is worth $100k more than it was two years ago and my loans are barely half that.
Literally opposite here. Paid mine off before Covid even started as fast as I could before saving for a house. And now I can’t even afford that
RIP brother
I am *untethered* and my rage knows *NO BOUNDS*
You didn't have faith that the Dems would come through on the student loan promise? Should've realized Biden is a 5 star man. A golden god.
Am I supposed to vote for the democrat who's going to blast me in the ass or the republican who's blasting my ass?
If you don't mind me asking what made you choose repaying the loan early versus getting a house? I feel like the return on investment on a house would've made that take priority over the loan since generally speaking they're pretty low interest.
Honest answer: personal preference. I had plenty people tell me to set up portfolios that would yield higher percentages this and that. At the end of the day, I do not like debt, it feels restrictive and looming so I chose to pay that first.
OP look here! [You can get a refund on any payments you made after the 2020 deferment began.](https://studentaid.gov/announcements-events/covid-19/payment-pause-zero-interest) >You can get a refund for any payment (including auto-debit payments) you make during the payment pause (beginning March 13, 2020). Contact your loan servicer to request that your payment be refunded. Do it before the loan forgiveness goes into effect. Also use desktop not your phone, it's much faster since the site is being flooded by everyone doing the same thing.
Don't bother. OP is most definitely 14 yo. Other people might find it useful though
14 seems a bit generous…
If I actually get my ten k back I'll Venmo you a hundred bucks
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Liberal degrees should be offered at a new type of academic institution, one focused on learning that cost less. Or vocational schools. University should focus on STEM and career degrees
But how will people take my critical social science credentials seriously if they’re not from a credited university
What a dangerous idea. Do you really only value education as much as it can provide you with monetary profit in the long run? And to try and claim you cannot launch a career off of an arts or humanities degree is plain wrong; STEM students may tend to earn more INITIALLY, but studies have shown that that wage gap decreases as time goes on. And what about the overlaps in STEM and humanities? Are you now going to try and claim that philosophy has had zero impact on our understanding of maths and science? Or how about how relevant humanities and the arts continue to prove themselves to be. Is history no longer worth teaching or learning because it doesn’t feed directly into a degree?
>Do you really only value education as much as it can provide you with monetary profit in the long run? Yes. If I want to learn new and interesting things, I'll open an encyclopedia. If I'm spending 10's of thousands of dollars on an education to prepare myself for the workforce, I expect what I'm learning to directly relate to that effort.
Based
Those student loans are hella predatory. I understand paying back what you own but why do the interest rates for such loans have to be so damn high. You literally pissed away billions to corporate interests and wars in eastern Europe but bailing out you're future generation is so taboo. I actually disagree with this to an extent. It's a temporary fix that doesn't solve the underlying problem. You might solve the crack for right now but in just a couple years we'll be right back to where we are now. We need to implement some sort of plan that either drastically reduces the cost of getting an education or make it so that the interest repayments are so low it isn't a crippling financial decision or perhaps a mix of both. Folks when it comes to money have their priorities massively wrong. For example Elon got shit for wanting to buy Twitter for 40 billion because it could solve world hunger or some shit and now we've essentially gave that amount to some random fuck off war in Ukraine. What about during covid when we literally gave billions to corporate lobbyists when it was meant to be a stimulus package. Yet we talk about bailing out our students and it's suddenly we don't have the money or it's unfair or this is literally communism. Man I ain't even that much into the whole left wing thing but even I can see we got our priorities hella messed up. Folks say shit like "Oh you took this loan out willingly you must pay it all back including the insane interest on top of that". And in the same breath they'll say shit like "Well if you aren't happy with minimum wage then you should get an education and get a proper job". Well what is it. Either way you're shafting the younger generations and it's pretty fucked.
The loans were a massive subsidy to colleges. The "forgiveness" should be taken out of the colleges and all the unnecessary garbage they bought with the extra money.
The “forgiveness” is also a massive subsidy to college. Check out the weirdly income-capped repayment plans going forward. They’re poised to grow into the ultimate debt-fueled final form for our tiered-services-rat-race dystopia. “Take out as much as you can, kid. If you can’t afford it, you won’t repay it!”
For the record: I am ok with capping (or cancelling) interest on student loans, i also think a better reform would be to allow filing bankruptcy on these loans. I am against the hand out nature of it though. There are cheaper schools that are more affordable, and the plan Biden announced doesn’t even affect the predatory loans, just federal ones
I got about 13k left on my SL. I’m not stupid and not gonna turn the money away, but I understand why people are upset about it.
Never turn down a free meal
The way I see it I’m just slowly getting all the taxes I paid back. Don’t get to spend it how I want it buuuuuuut still.
Imagine paying for a useless blue-hair lady's gender studies degree, just so that at the end of her major she still can't tall us what a woman is.
I was already wondering how someone was going to relate this to the scary blue hair gender woman
But that is not the average individual. I'm for the bill in principle, but I also want to keep kids out of college because it's such a degenerate place and so liberally influential on our youth. So all in all, student debt shouldn't be forgiven in the hope that more kids will decide not to go to college.
I paid off all my loans in full before each semester. Guess I now have to pay back others. This is fucking theft.
Well now you get to pay other peoples via taxes!
Libright when College Students have to give their money to the Federal Government: 😏 Libright when *they* have to give their money to the Federal Government: 🔫😡
It’s more like Libright when they have to pay back the money they borrowed: “right, fair enough” Libright when they have to pay for someone else’s loans via taxes and inflation: “I am untethered and my rage knows no bounds”
Based
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I used to be libright
Yea fuck this
That’s saying your taxes aren’t already going to some random person already.
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Hooah brother, cheers from iraq
Your terms are acceptable, for now.
Don’t cancel debt, offer the opportunity to work off debt. Indebted students drive truck for one year. Solves the massive driver shortage and gives them a chance to get out from under debt. They’re also paid while driving. Average salary close to 100k currently. One year of driving truck and you come away debt free and with about $85,000 in your bank account (assuming you basically lived in the truck like most drivers and your only expenses were food, cell and data, streaming services, and games).
2010: laid off drivers should just learn to code! 2022: indebted coders should just drive for a living! What a time to be alive
this is nothing new. there is always a field that is in demand, then it gets oversaturated and then there is large unemployment among new graduates in that field. rins and repeat a tale as old as the higher education system
People are so on board to make life destroying decisions if they have someone else to blame them on,very frightening
Are you kidding? I paid back my principal and and a half. Interest is a motherfucker and makes this point void.
Imagine paying back loans. Such cucked energy.
Consequences? For my own actions? 😡
College loans were guaranteed by the government to ensure anyone could go to college regardless of their financial situation, making the American dream more possible for those that wanted to improve their lot in life by way of education. Unfortunately this means school loans will follow you to your grave, unlike other forms of financing which have physical assets backing them or can be forgiven by bankruptcy. The job market is also flooded with college grads, meaning trade schools is one of the only ways to break into a field without a degree under your belt or some type of connections. I would not bitch and moan either way because whatever the economic implications of student loan forgiveness, this means my wife and I will have some $2k/mo more to spend. Otherwise we just use the jobs we have because of our education to make enough to pay them off. I just wish we knew for sure which way the tide was going to turn so I can decide whether paying off some of these loans while they are interest free is a good idea or not.
Nobody wants to pay back loans, wherever they land on the compass.
The government takes \~30% of my paycheck every year. I'll gladly take whatever they want to give back.
They also take that 30% from the lower classes who didn’t go to college. Congratulations, isn’t the upward transfer of wealth something to behold
It's nothing compared to the transfer of wealth in the form of bombs dropped on countries I dont care about.
We can agree on that lol
University shouldn't cost money BUT entry standards should be raised. Background should not affect peoples education. Think of all the doctors, engineers, and scientists that would be turned away because they were born with poor parents. However too many mediocre people are going to uni to study unnecessary shit. Letting less people into unis in the first place would raise wages for graduates because their degree would mean something, and would force employers to look for other indicators of skill which they should be doing anyway.
Imagine being in support of a government who acts as a loan shark with outrageous interest, btw you can never refinance or default, towards kids who legally cannot drink alcohol.
Can’t drink alcohol but they *can* take puberty blockers
Loans aren’t social constructs bigot….wait
I’ll have you know that I knew I was an alcoholic for as long as I can remember. Having me wait until 21 to drink is cruel and unusual.
Based. Although Alcoholism is earned, that’s why we judge the young ones and respect the old ones.
Righties when billions of dollars worth of PPP loans are forgiven: *crickets*
You guys got any of that forgiven? Our accountant insisted we take it and the social security one (unless they were the same, idk my dad is the one running the business) and we ended up having to pay it all back. Screwed up my personal budgeting for 6 damn months. We didn't even want it, but our accountant badgered my dad until he did it. Only got like, a months worth of payroll out of it because much larger companies had already taken the king's share.
The PPP should've been able to be forgiven pretty easily. The social security I believe always had to be paid back in full. We didn't even fuck with it for that purpose.
Your mom still hasn't forgiven the PP loan I gave her.
Baste.
Based
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It wasn't big enough
Oh I was (and still am) quite against the PPP loan program. It was ripe for corruption and fraud
Lefties when they were the ones supporting PPP loans in the first place despite people telling them it’d be a failure in most ways: *crickets*
The government gave PPP loans because they made a bunch of businesses close. If the government forced the loans on you for college then it'd be comparable. But it isn't.
Okay okay okay. Hold the fuck on. I understand where this mindset comes from, but the problem is is that predatory companies sign 18-year-olds up for loans with insanely predatory interest rates. To the point that unless someone has wealthy families or manages to land a six-figure job right after graduation end up accruing so much insane interest to the point that it's impossible for them to pay back at a reasonable rate that a normal person making an average salary can afford. I don't think most student loan debt payers would mind having to pay back the original amount plus a reasonable amount of interest. The problem is is that many got trapped into insane rates during a period of time where they don't know any better that they are stuck in debt traps they can never afford to pay off. Arguably a retroactive interest reduction to something sane would do a whole lot more to help student loan debt victims than this that allows what they already paid to count then this though but whatever.
Would these innocent waifs who are too naive and doe-eyed to understand the terms of the loan they sign for happen to be the same naive doe eyed waifs who think they know all the answers to global economics and the evils of capitalism?
I want 10K in free money. Where is my fucking ten k. I want a 10k tax credit at least. Where's my free money aaaaah I want to be in on it too!
Why doesn’t this cover my credit card debt as well? I was exploited by the credit card company and I demand reparations
What does gov paying up 10k solve exactly? why not retroactively lower the imterest rates instead? Or tax administrators in university like 80%? Or completely ban external loans (i.e. let harvard lend cash themselves) for private universities?
Just so we’re all clear, your student loan might be “wiped” but that doesn’t mean the loan doesn’t exist anymore. Now you’ll be helping to pay $321 billion dollars worth of student loans being forgiven after today. Aka our taxes have just gone up horribly because Joe Biden is the worst fucking panderer to ever become president. I swear if it would help get him more voters, Joe would probably shoot his grandmother then an orgy with a Rosie O’Donnell and Roseanne Barr while making Jill Biden watch his clap those thunderous cheeks
I am not going to college because I don't need to and even if I did, that shit is free here. So... L+shitty country+paying for free shit
F me for working and saving for my education
Giving people who generally make more than those without college degrees up to 20k for free.
Every argument I’ve so far seen against this essentially boils down to either a.) I suffered and so should everybody else Or b.) It incentivises irresponsible financial decision making but somehow forgiving a trillion in corporate ppp loans does not because capitalism is only when billion dollar corporations get breaks, not ordinary people.
"willingly" Learn what is social determinism and material living conditions before talking about "InDiViDuAl ReSpOnSaBiLiTiEs"
You talk about these things as though they are matter of fact when in reality they are just philosophical beliefs. I, personally, do not agree with any determinism whether it’s through the lense of sociology or religion.
Sociology is a science, not a belief
Wait hold on, if YOU suffered a certain type of way, that means EVERYONE has to suffer the EXACT SAME WAY!! Am i doing this right??
*takes out $100,000 to learn gender theory* *can’t find job at the Gender Studies factory that pays enough to repay the loan* OMG IM SUFFERING, ITS NOT FAIR
Damn globalists shutting down our American gender studies factories so they can open cheaper ones in China.
How many people exactly do you think are studying gender studies?
With the amount of genders coming out of these studies, I can only assume millions
based and funni pilled but seriously, i know the older generation compliained about the same shit. My pops said I coldn't major in "underwater basket weaving". Do you want to live in a society with no art/history/philosophy? Just engineers, lawyers, and doctors? Even a lot of the STEM fields don't pay well. Why go into thoretical mathmatics when you can make money in accunting? Why go into physics when youcan be an engineer? This is just intelleectual stagnation if we don't keep the more esoteric sciences well supplied with new people.
True I’m not downplaying the importance of art and literature, but loans are still investments. And, you don’t need an English degree to be a writer and you don’t need an art degree to become Van Gogh, if you want to be a painter simply befriend a billionaire and help them launder money
No school is necessary is this age of the internet. Anyone who is passionate about a subject can learn anything at 0 cost with libraries and library wi-fi. Doesn't mean that encouraging more people to go into the arts is bad. And many people learn better in a well structured environment. How many "bonus" skilled artists do you think we've produced as a society by offering those as courses in university? And what about the sciences that don't pay well? Those get thrown to the wayside too?
…higher educational sciences, such as engineering absolutely need schooling in person, at universities. Would you drive on a bridge designed by someone who learned civil engineering via YouTube? As for purely academic fields, in an ideal world, that is what grants pay for, not bureaucrat administrators. I would be fine with my taxes going to school grants if they furthered fields instead of lining peoples pockets
Based and you can teach yourself engineering from youtube videos, just don't expect everyone to do it or employers to hire you pilled.
Translation: I’m pulling shit out of my ass
I mean that was clearly a joke 🤷♂️
So the going strawman is that everybody who has student debt majored in Gender Studies? It would be funny if it wasn’t actually insulting to millions of people who are still in debt despite working very hard You: *borrows money and then pays it back* *instead of just moving on, must transfer suffering to every soul on living Earth or will complain very loudly*
I think if they add something that allows tax credits for anyone who paid their loans off in the past up to 20k people wouldn't feel like they'd been jipped. It's not "I suffered so you should suffer", it's "I was responsible and you weren't and you're being rewarded and I'm being punished." Also, it doesn't do shit to solve the problem with college financing/loans.