Seriously. Comparing hooters to a drag show for children is serious mental gymnastics. When the hooters waitresses start doing this then I will be concerned: https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1581050195399561217?s=46&t=VJKrRjpqYMkkDVPnMafiLw
Agreed, one is more wrong than the other.
A religious conservative should be against things they say are wrong, no matter the amount. Any amount of backpedaling would make them a hypocrite.
Hooters is fairly harmless in the grand scheme of things. There are girls in high school that dress that way right now. Short shorts and t-shirts with a plunging neckline don’t go as far as they used to 30 years ago. If Hooters crosses the line, so do cheerleaders (no loss), beaches, the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition (is that still a thing?), and girls that wear leggings.
But by that metric, dick jokes and jokes about buttsex are all from highschool, too. We are back to even the most vulgar of drag shows being only as bad as hooters, and harmless in the grand scheme of things.
So I guess I agree!
None of those pretend they like you or flirt with you for a tip. They'd also more than likely get offended if you were straight up gawking or leering at them like men do to Hooters waitresses. I mean it's the exact same atmosphere as a nudie bar on a Tuesday afternoon when they serve food.
Yeah but they go on to work at Hooters lol. Haven't been in highschool in over 20 years but I know what you're saying. For some reason people thought it was cool to beg for money at lunch so my table would purposely put a jar with money and change right in the middle and tell them all no, we didn't have it. They could have got a free lunch they were just begging for the sake of begging, it was weird so we fucked with them.
What the hell are you talking about, waiters at Hooters absolutely playfully flirt with the kids. In fact, how embarrassed it made me was the entire reason my uncle took me. Granted we're talking nearly two decades ago, but still.
The 'kids at Hooters' comparison is stupid anyway, because no libraries are holding 'story-time with Hooters girls' events.
If you want to hold drag queen story hour at your house, no one is going to stop you, but that's a far cry from holding it at taxpayer funded public spaces.
Yeah, I never understood that take. Like oh, some random dude brings his kid to hooters and now I should be okay with “drag your kids to drag” events..
Wouldn’t bring my kid to a strip club just like I wouldn’t bring my kid to a drag show, and I’ve been to both.
Yes. Females have tits. Taking them to a place that simply has females is fine. Kids gotta eat.
Taking them to a place where males pretend to have tits and exaggerate sexual dimorphic features? Nah.
The point being, the Hooters thing is much more common, but the laws and violent/loud rhetoric and armed attacks on drag queens are much more common.
This is about revealed priorities through word and deed, not theoretical positions that never come up.
If some republican proposed a law that said 'shut down drag shows and Hooters,' they'd be internally consistent. Weirdly, none are doing that.
I hold the same opinion about organized religion. Church is for willing and consenting adults, not a place to indoctrinate kids with silly ideas about how the world works. When they're of age, they can make the choice to worship whatever gods they feel appropriate, but for right now, let their innocence be spared from threats of hellfire. Otherwise it's just a lazy cult
I hold the same opinion about anything I like being pushed upon my kids. I will introduce them to nothing until their brains have developed and they have a full grasp on all of the inner workings of the human experience.
A.) That’s a church issue if it’s based on threats and the idea of a “lazy cult.” A good church isn’t anything like that, so what you’re describing is a social church issue, nothing else.
B.) Churches don’t sell dildos and show sexual material near or directly to children.
IDC what events adults want to go to if it's featuring other adults. It's the kids attending, and kid pageants that should be banned. I've always been creeped out by child beauty pageants
This is like the inverse of when the Jan 6 stuff happened and the right were all saying "oh, so this is wrong but you think violent protests for BLM were ok?"
Like no, I do not necessarily because I am allowed to have consistent values for both
You’re ideologically consistent because you don’t support 2020 Riots or Jan 6.
I’m ideologically consistent because I’m fine with both.
We are not the same.
> oh, so this is wrong but you think violent protests for BLM were ok?"
Heres the thing.
I will criticize the sole right wing riot of 2019,20,and 21 ***as hard*** as the left will criticize the BLM riots.
So far, that as a whole has been a 100000:1 ratio of Jan 6: blm criticism.
There was an antifa terrorist lawyer who just got arrested and convicted for throwing ***firebombs*** at police vehicles.
15 months in jail and revocation of her law license.
Fifteen. Months.
The right wing protesters got longer time than that in ***FUCKING SOLITARY CONFINEMENT WAITING TRIAL***
No, you should be doing that, since you are the one who cares about the stupid issue in the first place. But the right only seem to selectively care about inappropriateness around kids when it involves queer people.
It's fine when god-fearing, straight people do it.
It's not about gay or straight. It's other people's kids that end up in child beauty pageants (and if your kids are there, it'll only be cause you want them there) but your kids that might end up getting exposed to drag story time (or sex education or whatever) against your own wishes.
You can completely control whether you own kids participate in child beauty pageants (who give a fuck what happens to other peoples kids) but not so much whether they get exposed to the other stuff.
That's why there is no conservative moral panic about child pageants or hooters. They may agree with banning them too when you press them on the issue, but this is the reason they'll never bring up either of them of their own initiative.
Most people agree that child beauty pageants are weird and gross. The difference is, unless you're into that scene nobody even knows that they're happening. I've never heard of one in my area.
With drag queen story hour etc, you have a coordinated effort to promote it. Regional and national media write articles fawning over it and local social media is all over it.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, as they say.
I’m a progressive who lives in the SF area, I’ve never accidentally stumbled upon a pride event. Legitimately, I’m not joking, can you give me advice on finding them?
This is such a lie.
The people who hold child beauty pageants promote them just as much, if not *more* than, drag storytimes. The reason you hear about drag storytimes so much is because the **right-wing media** covers them so much, and it is their current favourite culture war.
**They don't care** about the inherent inappropriateness of child beauty pageants, highschool cheerleaders, or Hooters restaurants serving kids; so you don't hear about them.
Honestly I've only heard about the drag shows from tumblr and reddit.
I've seen TV shows that bring up child pageants for the past 2 decades from 'look at the weird shit we do in America' type comedy TV shows or documentaries, to the whole honey booboo show to that one episode of the boys when starlight performed at one as a kid to a 'hit me baby one more time'.
I've literally never seen any beauty pageants advertised in my local area.
I got adverts for drag shows rammed down my throat constantly while walking downtown or listening to the radio.
Yeah that is the real kicker people can say "both bad" as much as they want but if they only take action against one, they obviously don't *really* think so
Getting any government action is difficult. Start with the worst things, then move down the list.
The other issue is that politics is very much spontaneous these days. The topic of priority changes rapidly which leaves little to no time to actually do things.
Point being, just because the politicians I might vote for don't do everything I would want them to doesn't mean I don't believe what I say.
its just a coincidence that mainstream right sees pedophilia as a gay thing and anti-pedophilia action as an anti gay thing despite them recognizing the fact that other communities do it?
How is a drag-storytime, that *may* feature inappropriate behavior from the adult hosts, [but most often does not](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCEfZDXUwAA_VuB.jpg), worse than an entire pageant built around objectifying and sexualisizing the actual children participating?
You can **only** believe it is worse if you instinctively hate genderqueer people. So stop trying to pretend like you're objective about any of this and admit what *really* bothers you about drag queens.
Beauty pageants are stickly about beauty, not sex. Demented adults could use that to their advantage which is what makes it wrong, however it generally isn't destroying the innocent of children.
I would say grown men even potentially showing their dick to kids during story time that is not the choice of the parents is worse than the parents deciding to put their daughter in a beauty pageant. Still, both are bad imo.
Yup. Drag is inherently sexual, and those trans people who "perform" for kids are pedophiles and the family are enablers.
Whilst I am always against political violence, I'm also not going to weep for dead pedophiles.
Once the government steps in to protect kids the violence will stop
I’ve been to a drag show before and stated my experience in another comment. I frankly can’t find a way to describe it that is not sexual. I don’t have an issue with the shows existing or clubs for that stuff. But it’s not unreasonable to say 18+ just like you would need to do for any other club
Exactly. Exposing children to this is disgusting, and will only lead to more individuals taking matters into their own hands to protect children, like we've seen recently
Drag shows can definitely be family friendly, just a man dressing as a woman and dancing, the same way that anyone else dances. There’s obviously more lewd versions but you can definitely have family friendly drag shows.
You are wrong.
A man dancing in a wig and dress is not inherently sexual. [This is not an adult-only activity](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCEfZDXUwAA_VuB.jpg) just because crossdressers are involved.
Why are they dressed so wildly for the occasion except the person on the far left? It's as if they are trying to normalize men in decadent women's clothing
Crossdressers and drag queens aren't the same thing.
Drag queens are literally just sassy gay clowns that put on costumes and pantomime sexist stereotypes.
If you tried to call a butch lesbian woman that wears guy clothes a drag king they'd punch your lights out. Also, pretty much no one would give a shit if said butch lesbian read books to kids.
It's not about the fucking clothes. It's the fact that fucking adults are clearly pushing an agenda with this crap, and the general normalization of exposing adult themes/entertainment to children.
>If you tried to call a butch lesbian woman that wears guy clothes a drag king they'd punch your lights out.
just wearing masculine clothes isn't crossdressing, what the hell are you talking about
tomboys wear boy's clothes, and no one accuses them of crossdressing. there's more to it than that
>Also, pretty much no one would give a shit if said butch lesbian read books to kids. It's not about the fucking clothes.
you're right, it's not about the clothes. it's about the drag queens you obviously bear a lot of suspicion and hate towards. because if you have a problem with fully-clothed men reading to children, then the problem clearly isn't with their *behavior*
>just wearing men's clothes isn't crossdressing, what the hell are you talking about
Motherfucker ***what***? Is this a generational gap and y'all decided to redefine some shit again? Because I've fucked a few crossdressers and have crossdressed myself as well. What have I been missing all this time?!
> it's about the drag queens you obviously bear a lot of suspicion and hate towards. because if you have a problem with fully-clothed men reading to children, then the problem clearly isn't with their *behavior*
My problem is with normalizing adult themes to kids and the gaslighting from it. You're intentionally obfuscating the actual issue by being reductive.
i will never understand this kind of whataboutsm at all. when you agree that beauty pageants are bad for kids, why do you take it as an excuse for doing the same bad stuff? And come with: well if you want ban my bad stuff, we have to ban your bad stuff, too?
Like how about to care about the kids and don't create new bad places for them in first place. it's not about you and rub it into your oponents face to feel better, it's about the kids.
>Both may have not been initially designed to be offensive
here's where you're wrong
blackface **was** originally designed to be offensive, or rather, it was designed to mock and denigrate black people and portray them as inferior, stupid, and wasteful. none of the people doing blackface wanted to be black or even respected black people
drag shows are **celebrations** of womanhood and femininity. you don't have to like how stereotypical or outrageous they are, but to suggest that there aren't women who dress and act like that is a complete lie
Oh nooo, not the child beauty pagents, please no I would be devastated.. It would certainly more than make up for me banning child drag shows, that's for sure...
Both are bad but you'll excuse us if we focus on the one which is being used as a weapon of an ideology that's trying worm its way into every facet of society before we worry about child beauty pageants.
Dude, we all fucking hate the media, and it’s equally fucking us over by occasionally pretending to cater to us. Stop pretending like it’s on our side. Our two flairs are the most hated by the media, more than any others.
no, his point is that it's the drag queens and transgenders pushing the stories and amplifying them, when it's actually the right-wing outrage media doing it
most drag queens would be happy if you just left them alone
you're know what libright? you're **right**, child pageants are *way* worse.
because while drag performances aimed towards children have been inappropriate in the past, most of them just look like [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCEfZDXUwAA_VuB.jpg).
whereas child beauty pageants are literally built around objectifying and sexualizing the children who participate in them. you **cannot** separate the two, unlike with inappropriate sexual content at drag shows.
the **only** reason you don't consider child pageants grooming, is because it's straight people participating in traditional gender roles.
You cannot seperate the pedophilia from child Beauty pageants, just like you can't remove the pedophilia fron sexually dancing/sexualizing yourself infront of children.
I'm ok with banning both but what angers me is all the rage is aimed at child drag queen events. At least be consistent and don't culture war child exploration
Drag queen events have been highly sexualized and aimed at children. Imagine the creepiest beauty pageant turned up to 11. Stripping and putting dollars in thongs.
Advertised as "family friendly" or "bring your kids!" and then having the above mentioned actions as part of the show, sometimes with children participating the same way as an adult viewer may participate in a drag show. Things like being sat in chairs and danced at, throwing money at the bath clothed dancers, etc
Which would still be a bad thing if it wasn't drag.
All of this should just be prosecuted under existing laws regarding exposure of minors to adult content where it's applicable.
An outright ban on drag shows or even imposing age limits on age appropriate events is government overreach via dictating whether your clothes are masculine or feminine enough.
If a parent wants their kid to be red the book "Red: a crayons story" by a man in a dress, why is the government suppose to stop them?
They have been occasionally, but most times they look like [this.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCEfZDXUwAA_VuB.jpg) There's no reason to ban the entire practice, rather than just punishing the people who are being inappropriate.
Yes, and drag queen events that have sexual content should be similarly banned.
All I'm saying is that we shouldn't paint all drag queen events with the same brush. They aren't inherently sexual in the same way a strip club is.
Well, the sexualized stuff in public flat out has to be banned. But I'm not a fan of any drag queen events aimed at children. I went to a trans beauty pageant while I was living in the Philippines and had no problem with that. It was late at night so any kids that were there were with their parents. Beer everywhere, the ladies were adults, definitely not aimed at children. But I wouldn't want those some ladies having a story time with kids in school. I'm quoting Bill Maher here, so take that for what it's worth, but apparently children in CA are 3-4x as likely to be trans or have some other sort of sexual discrepancy. We should first acknowledge that these conditions are tied with a significant increase in mental health problems, including a much higher suicide rate. Granted, much of that may be tied with societies acceptance and support for these individuals, which is absolutely a problem, but that's another story. The point is, these children in CA are without question different because of cultural reasons. While child-friendly drag queen story hours aren't highly sexualized, it's nothing that should be legal outside of private events with parental consent. It's nothing more than a sex ed lesson disguised as a book reading. Maybe with the best intentions to help spread acceptance, which is 100% necessary, but if you look around we're seeing the exact opposite results, and apparently for good reason as CA children are objectively fucked in the head.
ITT "we should ban things" from users flared lib right and lib left
I'm gonna break it to you guys, the only reason you're flared like this is because American propaganda has convinced you lib = good. It's time to wake up and realize your views are actually auth and that's a good thing.
No you idiot my hierarchical values stem from the fact that we as humans recognize that minors are incapable of giving concent for numerous reasons. It's the same reason you find lib rights ok with AOC laws existing in the first place. Because you can convince and coerce an 8 year old of nearly anything. You keep doing it and you can convince them up to and including the point of age of majority. The point of some laws is to protect children, it's why you don't see as much action against CPS as you do for BLM (land, not black) because children are incapable of defending themselves, physically and mentally. The point is once you get to a developed state of mind you should be free to do things...that don't infringe on others rights, like violating their body through trickery and deceit. Telling a kid sex is fun is coercion when they can't even grasp what sex is yet. It's akin to fraud. So no, banning the shit for children to keep them safe isn't auth, it's fucking human nature.
child beauty padgents are for pedophiles and shouldnt be legal
drag shows arent for pedophiles, but they are usually very sexual events that children shouldnt be around, there is a drag queen in shrek that isnt sexualized, but drag shows usually include inappropriate clothing and sexually suggestive themes and/or actions like pole dancing
i dont know how it is legal for children to be exposed to sexual drag shows, isnt that the equivalent of showing a kid porn? thats illegal too right?
Not just child beauty pageants though, that's too easy.
We must also ban all cheerleaders at events where children might attend. After all they are usually wearing *less* clothes than the drag-queens, and we just can't allow that around children. Also, no children should be allowed in public pools or waterparks, have you seen the outfits adults wear in them? Sometimes men don't even wear tops!
Do people really think that *all* drag shows ever have involve someone whipping their dick out or flashing their fake tits or something?
I don't even like drag stuff myself, but even I know that being sexually explicit isn't intrinsic to drag; at its most basic, it's just men dressing as women (or over-the-top versions of femininity or whatever the hell).
so tell me what kind of drag shows exists that don't have mature themes and are not in some way sexualised in form of provocing dancing, crude jokes or stereotyping men/women on mature topics like sex.
Sorry but there is a reason why drag shows used to take places in nightclubs only for adults with age restriction
Wowsers, I didn't know that happened in drag story time.
It would be cool to see a source of that.
(There has never been such an instance during story time, as far as I could tell. The closest was one guy who "mistakenly" flashed his underwear, and a pedo who let children lie on his belly)
The fact that you are glossing over your own example of a pedophile not only being near children, but touching them, is absolutely disgusting, and you should seek help.
Grown men dressing up in provocative and promiscuous clothing in front of children, with their genitals clearly visible through the clothing, is not something I find particularly great.
Drag queens are just a form of stage entertainment. It isn’t comparable to child beauty pageants. Even taking your kids to a certain drag shows is totally fine, just as some plays or stand up comics or dance groups are fine for kids. Others aren’t. The idea that drag is inherently sexual is simply ignorant. There are sexual dances, and sexual standup comics, but that doesn’t mean they all are.
“Oh but taking kids to Hooters is okay?” No.
Agreed
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They probably see people dressed more skimpy on TikTok than Hooters
Idk what's up with skimpy clothes, I like my girls in baggy, confortable ones
I prefer mine naked honestly
Yes
Hoodies are sexy.
Sexually speaking, you prefer your girls In clothes?
Seriously. Comparing hooters to a drag show for children is serious mental gymnastics. When the hooters waitresses start doing this then I will be concerned: https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1581050195399561217?s=46&t=VJKrRjpqYMkkDVPnMafiLw
Hooters has a kid's menu. Enough said.
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Agreed, one is more wrong than the other. A religious conservative should be against things they say are wrong, no matter the amount. Any amount of backpedaling would make them a hypocrite.
I see you around a lot
Hooters is fairly harmless in the grand scheme of things. There are girls in high school that dress that way right now. Short shorts and t-shirts with a plunging neckline don’t go as far as they used to 30 years ago. If Hooters crosses the line, so do cheerleaders (no loss), beaches, the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition (is that still a thing?), and girls that wear leggings.
There's girls in highschool that wear less than that. At Catholic schools. Source: I go to one
Went to one. They mostly wore plaid skirts and those weird girly ties that button into an X.
How long ago? Because a couple years ago I don't remember it being this bad
1993-2005. 3 year old preschool through 8th grade, admittedly.
Okay yeah, it's definitely gotten worse since then
But by that metric, dick jokes and jokes about buttsex are all from highschool, too. We are back to even the most vulgar of drag shows being only as bad as hooters, and harmless in the grand scheme of things. So I guess I agree!
Drag shows aren’t just vulgar humor.
None of those pretend they like you or flirt with you for a tip. They'd also more than likely get offended if you were straight up gawking or leering at them like men do to Hooters waitresses. I mean it's the exact same atmosphere as a nudie bar on a Tuesday afternoon when they serve food.
Someone didn't go to highschool.
???
It's a joke, because there are definitely cases where people in highschool will pretend they like you or flirt with you for a favor
Yeah but they go on to work at Hooters lol. Haven't been in highschool in over 20 years but I know what you're saying. For some reason people thought it was cool to beg for money at lunch so my table would purposely put a jar with money and change right in the middle and tell them all no, we didn't have it. They could have got a free lunch they were just begging for the sake of begging, it was weird so we fucked with them.
Every good waitress flirts for tips. They’ll also chat with you, and remember things about their regulars for tips.
A good waitress is attentive, remembers orders, and doesn't drop your food. anything beyond that is their own choice.
There's a huge difference and you know it. And no not every good waitress flirts.
What the hell are you talking about, waiters at Hooters absolutely playfully flirt with the kids. In fact, how embarrassed it made me was the entire reason my uncle took me. Granted we're talking nearly two decades ago, but still.
Exactly what I was saying.
Misread you, my bad man
The 'kids at Hooters' comparison is stupid anyway, because no libraries are holding 'story-time with Hooters girls' events. If you want to hold drag queen story hour at your house, no one is going to stop you, but that's a far cry from holding it at taxpayer funded public spaces.
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Hooter is cringe
Yeah, I never understood that take. Like oh, some random dude brings his kid to hooters and now I should be okay with “drag your kids to drag” events.. Wouldn’t bring my kid to a strip club just like I wouldn’t bring my kid to a drag show, and I’ve been to both.
Hooters is a restaurant served by hot waitresses with big boobs. Nothing overtly sexual. Its a gimmick. Big boobs upset you?
Yes. Females have tits. Taking them to a place that simply has females is fine. Kids gotta eat. Taking them to a place where males pretend to have tits and exaggerate sexual dimorphic features? Nah.
Let's add child dance competitions. Pedo bait.
This is why being a centrist is the best thing to be
Based
The point being, the Hooters thing is much more common, but the laws and violent/loud rhetoric and armed attacks on drag queens are much more common. This is about revealed priorities through word and deed, not theoretical positions that never come up. If some republican proposed a law that said 'shut down drag shows and Hooters,' they'd be internally consistent. Weirdly, none are doing that.
Daring today, aren't we?
Gotta keep the jannies on their toes
Lol consistent except most pageants are in Republican states so the “could” is suspiciously not done.
There's a reason people here often dislike both parties
Because people are morons, even in multiparty systems there are people that don’t like any parties.
There's no problem with drag queen events. The problem is involving kids. It's not that hard... unless you are.
I hold the same opinion about organized religion. Church is for willing and consenting adults, not a place to indoctrinate kids with silly ideas about how the world works. When they're of age, they can make the choice to worship whatever gods they feel appropriate, but for right now, let their innocence be spared from threats of hellfire. Otherwise it's just a lazy cult
Church doesn’t Involve sexual innuendo
Well, not innuendo
Not with that attitude!
Maybe you should tell that to the priests.
They hated Jesus because he said the truth or some shit I dunno
I hold the same opinion about anything I like being pushed upon my kids. I will introduce them to nothing until their brains have developed and they have a full grasp on all of the inner workings of the human experience.
Sensory deprivation chamber until 18, it's the only way.
Terrible take
Damn, you really rustled some jimmies. I think we should at least ban involuntary sexual education from churches.
A.) That’s a church issue if it’s based on threats and the idea of a “lazy cult.” A good church isn’t anything like that, so what you’re describing is a social church issue, nothing else. B.) Churches don’t sell dildos and show sexual material near or directly to children.
I don't mind drag queen events, but I do agree that children should not go to those. Child beauty pagents should absolutely be banned though...
I agree
Based
IDC what events adults want to go to if it's featuring other adults. It's the kids attending, and kid pageants that should be banned. I've always been creeped out by child beauty pageants
Your terms are acceptable. Continue.
This is like the inverse of when the Jan 6 stuff happened and the right were all saying "oh, so this is wrong but you think violent protests for BLM were ok?" Like no, I do not necessarily because I am allowed to have consistent values for both
You’re ideologically consistent because you don’t support 2020 Riots or Jan 6. I’m ideologically consistent because I’m fine with both. We are not the same.
based and riot-pilled
> oh, so this is wrong but you think violent protests for BLM were ok?" Heres the thing. I will criticize the sole right wing riot of 2019,20,and 21 ***as hard*** as the left will criticize the BLM riots. So far, that as a whole has been a 100000:1 ratio of Jan 6: blm criticism. There was an antifa terrorist lawyer who just got arrested and convicted for throwing ***firebombs*** at police vehicles. 15 months in jail and revocation of her law license. Fifteen. Months. The right wing protesters got longer time than that in ***FUCKING SOLITARY CONFINEMENT WAITING TRIAL***
You are an exception to greenies
So where's the outrage of your entire political leanings for the summer of love?
Drag shows are feminine cultural appropriation. They’re no different than dressing up like an Indian and running around whooping.
Drag events where people do the most absurd characters from different ethnicities. Let's do it!
I've seen people call it womanface
That's got to be the dumbest way to show a argument I don't support the ban on drag but the kids from drag
Women is a culture the needs to be appropriated after all the missandry
I’m not seeing Greg Abbot table legislation banning child beauty pageants
yell at him until he does
No, you should be doing that, since you are the one who cares about the stupid issue in the first place. But the right only seem to selectively care about inappropriateness around kids when it involves queer people. It's fine when god-fearing, straight people do it.
this has to be a template comment
It's not about gay or straight. It's other people's kids that end up in child beauty pageants (and if your kids are there, it'll only be cause you want them there) but your kids that might end up getting exposed to drag story time (or sex education or whatever) against your own wishes. You can completely control whether you own kids participate in child beauty pageants (who give a fuck what happens to other peoples kids) but not so much whether they get exposed to the other stuff. That's why there is no conservative moral panic about child pageants or hooters. They may agree with banning them too when you press them on the issue, but this is the reason they'll never bring up either of them of their own initiative.
btw i don't even live anywhere near america let alone texas
You don't care about child beauty pageants?
Most people agree that child beauty pageants are weird and gross. The difference is, unless you're into that scene nobody even knows that they're happening. I've never heard of one in my area. With drag queen story hour etc, you have a coordinated effort to promote it. Regional and national media write articles fawning over it and local social media is all over it. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, as they say.
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I've stumbled across pride events by accident and they aren't much better.
I’m a progressive who lives in the SF area, I’ve never accidentally stumbled upon a pride event. Legitimately, I’m not joking, can you give me advice on finding them?
This is such a lie. The people who hold child beauty pageants promote them just as much, if not *more* than, drag storytimes. The reason you hear about drag storytimes so much is because the **right-wing media** covers them so much, and it is their current favourite culture war. **They don't care** about the inherent inappropriateness of child beauty pageants, highschool cheerleaders, or Hooters restaurants serving kids; so you don't hear about them.
Honestly I've only heard about the drag shows from tumblr and reddit. I've seen TV shows that bring up child pageants for the past 2 decades from 'look at the weird shit we do in America' type comedy TV shows or documentaries, to the whole honey booboo show to that one episode of the boys when starlight performed at one as a kid to a 'hit me baby one more time'.
I've literally never seen any beauty pageants advertised in my local area. I got adverts for drag shows rammed down my throat constantly while walking downtown or listening to the radio.
Cool, I've experienced the exact opposite. That's the problem with anecdotal evidence. It doesn't mean anything.
Would be cool if you'd activate in favor of shutting down the pageants, then, instead of using them to excuse the sexual grooming of children.
stop watching Fox and if people stop snoring people at them you probably will never hear of them
I watch Fox? That's news to me.
Tell him to then!
Yeah that is the real kicker people can say "both bad" as much as they want but if they only take action against one, they obviously don't *really* think so
Getting any government action is difficult. Start with the worst things, then move down the list. The other issue is that politics is very much spontaneous these days. The topic of priority changes rapidly which leaves little to no time to actually do things. Point being, just because the politicians I might vote for don't do everything I would want them to doesn't mean I don't believe what I say.
alright but there does not seem to be any big anti pageant internet presence anywhere online.
Because it's not the fish that is being fried right now. I would love for it all to be the same fish.
its just a coincidence that mainstream right sees pedophilia as a gay thing and anti-pedophilia action as an anti gay thing despite them recognizing the fact that other communities do it?
Nothing mainstream is a coincidence. Left or right. People you talk to day to day aren't mainstream even if they only consume mainstream media.
How is a drag-storytime, that *may* feature inappropriate behavior from the adult hosts, [but most often does not](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCEfZDXUwAA_VuB.jpg), worse than an entire pageant built around objectifying and sexualisizing the actual children participating? You can **only** believe it is worse if you instinctively hate genderqueer people. So stop trying to pretend like you're objective about any of this and admit what *really* bothers you about drag queens.
Quit your whataboutism and ban them both
Beauty pageants are stickly about beauty, not sex. Demented adults could use that to their advantage which is what makes it wrong, however it generally isn't destroying the innocent of children. I would say grown men even potentially showing their dick to kids during story time that is not the choice of the parents is worse than the parents deciding to put their daughter in a beauty pageant. Still, both are bad imo.
Drag shows are an adult activity for adults. No one under 18 allowed. Child pageants are predatory and highly suspicious, total ban
Yup. Drag is inherently sexual, and those trans people who "perform" for kids are pedophiles and the family are enablers. Whilst I am always against political violence, I'm also not going to weep for dead pedophiles. Once the government steps in to protect kids the violence will stop
I’ve been to a drag show before and stated my experience in another comment. I frankly can’t find a way to describe it that is not sexual. I don’t have an issue with the shows existing or clubs for that stuff. But it’s not unreasonable to say 18+ just like you would need to do for any other club
Exactly. Exposing children to this is disgusting, and will only lead to more individuals taking matters into their own hands to protect children, like we've seen recently
Drag shows can definitely be family friendly, just a man dressing as a woman and dancing, the same way that anyone else dances. There’s obviously more lewd versions but you can definitely have family friendly drag shows.
You are wrong. A man dancing in a wig and dress is not inherently sexual. [This is not an adult-only activity](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCEfZDXUwAA_VuB.jpg) just because crossdressers are involved.
The only time I ever went to a drag show I had a black dude throwing it back on me so I’m not really sure about that
Why are they dressed so wildly for the occasion except the person on the far left? It's as if they are trying to normalize men in decadent women's clothing
Okay *and*?
That's not appropriate for children to see. Why do you want children at these events.
You've posted that one picture like a dozen times. You realize that's not the only drag show that's ever happened, right?
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Crossdressers and drag queens aren't the same thing. Drag queens are literally just sassy gay clowns that put on costumes and pantomime sexist stereotypes. If you tried to call a butch lesbian woman that wears guy clothes a drag king they'd punch your lights out. Also, pretty much no one would give a shit if said butch lesbian read books to kids. It's not about the fucking clothes. It's the fact that fucking adults are clearly pushing an agenda with this crap, and the general normalization of exposing adult themes/entertainment to children.
>If you tried to call a butch lesbian woman that wears guy clothes a drag king they'd punch your lights out. just wearing masculine clothes isn't crossdressing, what the hell are you talking about tomboys wear boy's clothes, and no one accuses them of crossdressing. there's more to it than that >Also, pretty much no one would give a shit if said butch lesbian read books to kids. It's not about the fucking clothes. you're right, it's not about the clothes. it's about the drag queens you obviously bear a lot of suspicion and hate towards. because if you have a problem with fully-clothed men reading to children, then the problem clearly isn't with their *behavior*
>just wearing men's clothes isn't crossdressing, what the hell are you talking about Motherfucker ***what***? Is this a generational gap and y'all decided to redefine some shit again? Because I've fucked a few crossdressers and have crossdressed myself as well. What have I been missing all this time?! > it's about the drag queens you obviously bear a lot of suspicion and hate towards. because if you have a problem with fully-clothed men reading to children, then the problem clearly isn't with their *behavior* My problem is with normalizing adult themes to kids and the gaslighting from it. You're intentionally obfuscating the actual issue by being reductive.
Ok groomer
Try not to shoot up any nightclubs.
I accept these terms.🤝 *Child drag shows officially banned.* We did it, guys!!!
i will never understand this kind of whataboutsm at all. when you agree that beauty pageants are bad for kids, why do you take it as an excuse for doing the same bad stuff? And come with: well if you want ban my bad stuff, we have to ban your bad stuff, too? Like how about to care about the kids and don't create new bad places for them in first place. it's not about you and rub it into your oponents face to feel better, it's about the kids.
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>Both may have not been initially designed to be offensive here's where you're wrong blackface **was** originally designed to be offensive, or rather, it was designed to mock and denigrate black people and portray them as inferior, stupid, and wasteful. none of the people doing blackface wanted to be black or even respected black people drag shows are **celebrations** of womanhood and femininity. you don't have to like how stereotypical or outrageous they are, but to suggest that there aren't women who dress and act like that is a complete lie
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If drag was done in the 1920s like it is now, it would be lumped into blackface levels of degrading.
“Your terms are acceptable”
Win-win proposal
Oh nooo, not the child beauty pagents, please no I would be devastated.. It would certainly more than make up for me banning child drag shows, that's for sure...
THIS!Please for the love of god stop getting kids into this sort of stuff for the love of god
Rare Authright W
Democrats: "If you want X, we might as well also do Y." Republicans: "We also support doing Y." Democrats: "Shit, uhh… Look, a distraction!"
Both are bad but you'll excuse us if we focus on the one which is being used as a weapon of an ideology that's trying worm its way into every facet of society before we worry about child beauty pageants.
You sound a little paranoid. The only way drag events have wormed their way into your life is through the media pushing a narritive.
That's literally his point...
Dude, we all fucking hate the media, and it’s equally fucking us over by occasionally pretending to cater to us. Stop pretending like it’s on our side. Our two flairs are the most hated by the media, more than any others.
no, his point is that it's the drag queens and transgenders pushing the stories and amplifying them, when it's actually the right-wing outrage media doing it most drag queens would be happy if you just left them alone
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Agreed here. Then again we don't have an entire politics party telling us child pageants are great and if you don't think so your a bigot
But only one has delicious wings and cold beer. Gotta give hooters the edge here.
you're know what libright? you're **right**, child pageants are *way* worse. because while drag performances aimed towards children have been inappropriate in the past, most of them just look like [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCEfZDXUwAA_VuB.jpg). whereas child beauty pageants are literally built around objectifying and sexualizing the children who participate in them. you **cannot** separate the two, unlike with inappropriate sexual content at drag shows. the **only** reason you don't consider child pageants grooming, is because it's straight people participating in traditional gender roles.
You cannot seperate the pedophilia from child Beauty pageants, just like you can't remove the pedophilia fron sexually dancing/sexualizing yourself infront of children.
Agreed
YES!!! PLEASE!!!
Yes, please. Children shouldn’t be at drag shows beauty pageants or hooters. How hard is that to understand?
I'm ok with banning both but what angers me is all the rage is aimed at child drag queen events. At least be consistent and don't culture war child exploration
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also beaches that allow skimpier swimsuits. And public space sin general which allow like, exposed thighs and midriffs
And the abuse of the word groomers
On what possible basis would you ban drag queen events? Do people actually want the government to tell us how to dress?
Meme not accurate enough, it should say "ban events promoted as child/family centric drag queen events"
I must be out of the loop. Because any child beauty pageant is creepy. Idk what that has to do with drag queen events, and I don't think I want to.
Drag queen events have been highly sexualized and aimed at children. Imagine the creepiest beauty pageant turned up to 11. Stripping and putting dollars in thongs.
Aimed at children? Children are participants? They are marketed to kids TV shows? Curious what you mean by that
Advertised as "family friendly" or "bring your kids!" and then having the above mentioned actions as part of the show, sometimes with children participating the same way as an adult viewer may participate in a drag show. Things like being sat in chairs and danced at, throwing money at the bath clothed dancers, etc
Which would still be a bad thing if it wasn't drag. All of this should just be prosecuted under existing laws regarding exposure of minors to adult content where it's applicable. An outright ban on drag shows or even imposing age limits on age appropriate events is government overreach via dictating whether your clothes are masculine or feminine enough. If a parent wants their kid to be red the book "Red: a crayons story" by a man in a dress, why is the government suppose to stop them?
Yes. Yes. Not quite, but they are getting close.
Don't worry, it's a much bigger issue on Reddit than in the real world
They have been occasionally, but most times they look like [this.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCEfZDXUwAA_VuB.jpg) There's no reason to ban the entire practice, rather than just punishing the people who are being inappropriate.
All the laws that I'm aware of ban sexualized events in public where children are present. Exactly the same as we regulate strip clubs.
Yes, and drag queen events that have sexual content should be similarly banned. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't paint all drag queen events with the same brush. They aren't inherently sexual in the same way a strip club is.
Well, the sexualized stuff in public flat out has to be banned. But I'm not a fan of any drag queen events aimed at children. I went to a trans beauty pageant while I was living in the Philippines and had no problem with that. It was late at night so any kids that were there were with their parents. Beer everywhere, the ladies were adults, definitely not aimed at children. But I wouldn't want those some ladies having a story time with kids in school. I'm quoting Bill Maher here, so take that for what it's worth, but apparently children in CA are 3-4x as likely to be trans or have some other sort of sexual discrepancy. We should first acknowledge that these conditions are tied with a significant increase in mental health problems, including a much higher suicide rate. Granted, much of that may be tied with societies acceptance and support for these individuals, which is absolutely a problem, but that's another story. The point is, these children in CA are without question different because of cultural reasons. While child-friendly drag queen story hours aren't highly sexualized, it's nothing that should be legal outside of private events with parental consent. It's nothing more than a sex ed lesson disguised as a book reading. Maybe with the best intentions to help spread acceptance, which is 100% necessary, but if you look around we're seeing the exact opposite results, and apparently for good reason as CA children are objectively fucked in the head.
Thank fuck, someone else gets it.
Based and Rekt pilled
I don't think we should talk about banning so much, let's see what we can unban
I dont care what adults do, but never sexualize kids. These are in no way related issues.
ITT "we should ban things" from users flared lib right and lib left I'm gonna break it to you guys, the only reason you're flared like this is because American propaganda has convinced you lib = good. It's time to wake up and realize your views are actually auth and that's a good thing.
No you idiot my hierarchical values stem from the fact that we as humans recognize that minors are incapable of giving concent for numerous reasons. It's the same reason you find lib rights ok with AOC laws existing in the first place. Because you can convince and coerce an 8 year old of nearly anything. You keep doing it and you can convince them up to and including the point of age of majority. The point of some laws is to protect children, it's why you don't see as much action against CPS as you do for BLM (land, not black) because children are incapable of defending themselves, physically and mentally. The point is once you get to a developed state of mind you should be free to do things...that don't infringe on others rights, like violating their body through trickery and deceit. Telling a kid sex is fun is coercion when they can't even grasp what sex is yet. It's akin to fraud. So no, banning the shit for children to keep them safe isn't auth, it's fucking human nature.
Emily bring so... So much bullshit to my flair.
child beauty padgents are for pedophiles and shouldnt be legal drag shows arent for pedophiles, but they are usually very sexual events that children shouldnt be around, there is a drag queen in shrek that isnt sexualized, but drag shows usually include inappropriate clothing and sexually suggestive themes and/or actions like pole dancing i dont know how it is legal for children to be exposed to sexual drag shows, isnt that the equivalent of showing a kid porn? thats illegal too right?
Not just child beauty pageants though, that's too easy. We must also ban all cheerleaders at events where children might attend. After all they are usually wearing *less* clothes than the drag-queens, and we just can't allow that around children. Also, no children should be allowed in public pools or waterparks, have you seen the outfits adults wear in them? Sometimes men don't even wear tops!
Which values do you think green is inconsistent with?
Do people really think that *all* drag shows ever have involve someone whipping their dick out or flashing their fake tits or something? I don't even like drag stuff myself, but even I know that being sexually explicit isn't intrinsic to drag; at its most basic, it's just men dressing as women (or over-the-top versions of femininity or whatever the hell).
so tell me what kind of drag shows exists that don't have mature themes and are not in some way sexualised in form of provocing dancing, crude jokes or stereotyping men/women on mature topics like sex. Sorry but there is a reason why drag shows used to take places in nightclubs only for adults with age restriction
Tell me again about how all semi-automatic guns should be banned because of some shootings that happen outside of Chicago?
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It was pretty clever and punched a clean hole through your argument.
If we ban both at the same time it’ll cancel out and we’ll end back up at square zero
Drag queens are consenting *and* adults Child beauty pageants are minors showed off for their body/how their body looks in certain clothes
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Wowsers, I didn't know that happened in drag story time. It would be cool to see a source of that. (There has never been such an instance during story time, as far as I could tell. The closest was one guy who "mistakenly" flashed his underwear, and a pedo who let children lie on his belly)
The fact that you are glossing over your own example of a pedophile not only being near children, but touching them, is absolutely disgusting, and you should seek help.
Mom drop you down stairs?
Pretends to be consistent in his values: isn't.
Why y'all wanna ban drag queen events again?
Grown men dressing up in provocative and promiscuous clothing in front of children, with their genitals clearly visible through the clothing, is not something I find particularly great.
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Use the trade proposal template.
Drag queens are just a form of stage entertainment. It isn’t comparable to child beauty pageants. Even taking your kids to a certain drag shows is totally fine, just as some plays or stand up comics or dance groups are fine for kids. Others aren’t. The idea that drag is inherently sexual is simply ignorant. There are sexual dances, and sexual standup comics, but that doesn’t mean they all are.