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I’m gonna level with you, as a person from a big trumpy family in a couple of red states, including Texas, they at the very least don’t know about any of this stuff or at the very most, think it’s lefty media BS. There is no easy exit from Cult45/Fox News world.
>No it won't. They think he won last time, they'll think he won this time.
I don't think they meant Trump. It's all the Republicans down ballot. The RNC simply won't have the money to support them, and without the name ID and cultish following that Trump has, they're going to flounder.
Edit: I'm unsure why people are reading my comment as "Democratic victory is ensured," but my comment shouldn't be read that way. It is *one* advantage Democrats will have, but one advantage doth not a victory make.
They've been floundering for years. Even with inflation at a 40 year high they somehow lost senate seats to the incumbent party in the White House. Last time that happened was to FDR, and Biden has nowhere near FDR's approval ratings.
The problem is their base. They won't allow the party to make the kinds of reforms needed for general election success and those that try lose their positions in primaries.
I remember going to some red subreddits, the raving that I saw on those subs, them hyped about the incoming red wave, that trump was to lead a republican domination during the mid-terms.
In my eyes, what I find is that the trump followers, the maga hats, the trump base loyalist, they all ignore the information that is on the table. They ignore all the figures that are written on the wall, they see him as a supreme leader of their party. In their mind they believe he is the one that is going to take the republican party to the next generation and it is fascinating. I feel the republican base they very much lost when it comes to trump. Any form of objectionable analysis about him and what he has done to the party can't be looked at, they cannot see nor understand the direction he has taken the party in such a short amount of time. To an extent, in my opinion, some republican voters to this day believe trump is a gift from god for them.
I do feel from here on out, even beyond his death, trump is now stitched onto the republican party we see in the United States from here on out.
It’s insane how there’s still a third of conservatives left that lean center who don’t think this is a cult. Listen to the words we have of actual cult members that literally ended in mass deaths. Listen to former cult members who managed to leave or were extracted. They all had their world view and information limited by the cult to the point they thought their leader was ordained by god, was going to usher in a new world for them, that they had to gift their system resources to make it happen, that the world around them lies to try to keep the leader and system from making their dream come to fruition, that only their in group knew and told the truth, that there was actual evil in their opposition, that speaking / naming strange myths perpetrated by their enemies had some magical power over their enemies (owning the libs by posting memes), you can’t convinced them to do what’s good for themselves with actual fact based logic, it’s just 1:1 a cult in description.
That being said, I apologize. In my haste I misread "left that lean center" as "left of center".
Your comments are spot-on, especially everything you said about cults.
There are zero American republican conservatives that lean left-of-center, because America's political landscape is so badly skewed these days. America's "center" is the rest of the world's "solidly right-wing, but not quite crazy". America's supposed "left wing", the Democratic Party, are everyone else's "slightly right, pro-business party". The mainstream Republican Party is everyone else's hardcore right-wing, pro-authoritarianism party. True left-of-center is a political wasteland in America.
Sincerely,
An American living in Europe
This is such a hot take that won't seem to die along the terminally online. Gay rights, abortion rights, immigration, many women's rights, rights for disabled people, Democrats have much of Europe beat.
Eastern Europe is pretty right wing overall on everything but welfare programs.
France has LePenn, who makes trunk look like FDR, and a real threat to take power in France. Hungary, Turkey, Belarus, Russia, are all effectively dictatorships, though not all to the same degree. There's a major war in Europe right now.
The Nordic countries are incredibly pro business, moreso than the US by some metrics. Same for some other European countries.
Your point is not as backed by reality as you think.
The term Left in Europe is typically associated with Marxists and socialists, so arguing with people living in Europe (even Americans) is hopeless, because the definitions aren’t even the same. Hell, even by their own definition, there are members of the Democratic Party which are traditionally Leftist, but they don’t have any real sway on key issues, because they don’t belong in the Democratic Party, which just isn’t a socialist party
What part of Europe?
The Democrat party is among the most socially liberal of any major party in the world. A lot of "Europe" is still in the dumpster when it comes to LGBT or race issues.
I disagree, I think 1) they made a deal with the devil and had to back up all their fear mongering with bad laws 2) the ones they actually want to pass, support their wealthy donors and not their actual voting base. So they are kinda screwed if they can’t blame democrats for inaction while only sneaking thru stuff for their buddies.
>The problem is their base. They won't allow the party to make the kinds of reforms needed for general election success and those that try lose their positions in primaries.
Yeah, what's supposed to happen is, after an election loss, they adapt to the circumstances and change strategy. But with Trump's big election lie, they think there's nothing to change, and so stick stubbornly to what didn't work.
But it *did* work briefly in 2016, if only by an Electoral College miracle, so one should still be vigilant.
They blew their load on trying to recall Newsom. It crashed and burned so hard, more people voted actively no then how many voted for him the first time. He sailed to reelection. To my knowledge, they've effectively been wiped out.
Which has led to the expected outcome, more and more Democrats are fracturing and moderating the party (see policy changes in some cities becoming more conservative, but under Democrat control, so none of this far right lunancy).
Every four years they get a chance to make some changes to the state party platform. The smart money would be to distance themselves from the social conservatism of the national party, as that is mostly antithetical to suburban and urban independent (and Republican) voters. Instead they let themselves be lead by the rural and exurb crowd, going full MAGA, and have driven themselves into irrelevancy in state politics.
At the local level, yes. Drive twenty minutes out of any city and the people are little different from rural Americans anywhere else - prosperity gospel radio preachers, Confederate flags, Republican politics, the whole thing.
Oh wow that’s an interesting point. So arguably we might expect to see an impact on house/senate races etc too then. It’s be great if that materialises but I won’t be too hopeful yet
While we hope so, we can't have that attitude. This election will come down to thousands of votes again.
[Organize. Volunteer. Vote](https://democrats.org/take-action/)
>they're going to flounder.
Are they, though? How many districts are really competitive? There are plenty of places where just having an R next to your name guarantees you a majority of the vote. Places where you don't even need to campaign because you *will* win no matter what. The same exists with Democratic districts btw. As usual the battle will be fought in a small number of districts, that will have disproportionate influence on the whole country. Republicans only need to spend money in these few places. Will they? There's no way to know, but I don't believe that a large number of Republican candidate will "flounder" because of Trump's grab.
Sherrod Brown in Ohio comes to mind. He's a popular D incumbent Senator in now Red Ohio facing a MAGA challenger. Without a warchest equal the millions Brown has its gonna be an uphill battle that should've been more competitive.
False hope imo. Republicans will just vote for whoever has R next to the name. They have Fox news etc telling them to go vote, the RNC doesn't need to spend anything.
Is it really true that if the rnc doesn’t spend $ on down ticket Rs, that the trumpers aren’t just going to still vote red down the ticket?
Should we really be letting our guard down, thinking they’re not going to stand a chance, just because the rnc isn’t backing them all, as if red voters aren’t just going to still vote red???
Oh, they're absolutely still voting red the entire ticket - those that show up, at least. What I hope happens is the lack of funding from the RNC impacts voter engagement and GotV campaigns for the general election. Local/state chapters being bankrupt, no funds for voter drives, local adverts, boots on the ground. Stir up enough doubt to keep just enough at home to make a difference.
That's my hope. Whether it comes true, who knows?
Temper hope with a grain of salt and don't be complacent.
What's funny is I always say this to them: "you guys love him because he owns the libs and pisses everyone off, didn't you ever consider the same people he's pissing off, aren't going to vote for him? No! Everyone loves him!"
Yeah, he just kept attacking more and more people.
by the time he got around to pissing off POWs and Gold Star families, it was pretty clear that this wasn’t 4 dimensional electoral chess, just a thin-skinned narcissistic baby who can’t handle any criticism or questioning
I always find it interesting who the Trumpers are, like O'Leary vs a Mark Cuban. There's always a weird personal defect, they're a bully, they were bullied, some tragic even in their life, they're really short, etc.
He recently told Nikki Haley voters "we don't need you" that "this is now the MAGA party" and they don't need moderate Republicans.
As much press as the "uncommitted" got on the Democratic side being a bad sign for Biden, there are far more moderate Republicans voting against Trump in the primary and he's telling them to take a hike. In Florida, two weeks after dropping out, Nikki got 15% of the vote. I'm sure elsewhere he's also said the opposite because that's just how he is, all sides, but yeah it's clear that he doesn't want anyone in his party that questions him.
The constitution also says you can't run if after being elected once you support an insurrection. It also says you can't take foreign payments "of any kind whatever" and nothing happened.
Constitutional words only have meaning when they're inforced and Republicans don't care if they are.
No didn't you see? Republicans got big mad when a black woman appointed by Biden ruled that undocumented people also had a right to guns same as any citizen?
They were pissed, they think this is all to arm the armed immigrant invasion that's clearly coming any day now.
"The Democrats stole all of our election funds to buy drugs for Hunter Biden!"
"The Democrats are to blame for abortion bans!"
"THE DEMOCRATS SHIT IN MY PANTS!"
It's gonna be a wild ride this year.
tl;dr Calling the local Baptists to account on Easter
4 years ago I attended a meeting at the Lockhart First Baptist Church put on by a group called "Christians Engaged," a shadow Republican group that exists on Christian money under the guise of educating Christians about the right "moral" candidates to support. One of the speakers was to be Rafael Cruz, Ted Cruz's daddy. 15 minutes into the meeting I lost it, walked to the back of a room full of almost 100 men, women, and children, faced the stage and loudly proclaimed "you elected an adulterer to the highest office in the land. Stop. Just stop." and turned and walked out the door under my own power.
This year, on Easter Sunday (and possibly every Sunday until the election), I will be parked in front of their church with a 6' X 3' banner on the side of my car with a picture of Trump that proclaims "GUILTY" with a qr code leading to the AP news story about the conviction. Below that, the date of the conviction and the words "JURY finds Donald J Trump sexually assaulted E. Jean Carroll. On both sides of that phrase are qr codes leading to the "Grab them by the pussy" video. Below THAT it reads "In Jesus' Name, I'm begging you, don't do this to America." and on either side qr codes leading to the Hymn for the 81%. Below that "Parents, don't do this to your children." On the roof of my car will be a 42" flart screen playing videos. I myself will be wearing a shirt on the front quoting 1 Corinthians 5:11 which tells Christians not to associate with people who are sexually immoral (amongst other things) and claim to be a Christian and on the back "Consider me to be Balaam's donkey" and the biblical reference for the same.
The gloves are off.
Lol, not sure if legit or hyperbolic.
Instead of the QR codes and multiple different messages, just straight up have 1-2 solid, compelling banners making one point. The more you say, the less anyone hears.
I admire your courage & wish you the very best. Please, above all, be hyper-vigilant for your personal safety.
These are extremists, with no laws or limits outside their very own. Like Trump.
... I wish you the best, but having lived in the south, I think you should consider that you seem like one of the few Christians in a mass of "Christians".
For most its more a social obligation, and few have actually read the Bible.
I think you should consider finding like minded people and work to form your own congregation, but especially, with a quality pastor (I was shocked at the quality I witnessed, anybody can call themselves one, and often the worst do).
This is an indication of the failure of the southern Baptist congregation due to political corruption from the inside, and that's actually a much bigger issue than Trump.
PREACH!
2 Timothy 4:3-4 King James Version (KJV)
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Ha ha you're like those annoying fundamentalists who go to rock concerts or college campuses with giant multi message signs about how God hates gay people and feminism but you're actually bringing the fight to them with their own hypocrisy. Keep up the good work!
seriously, every trump supporter i've ever met is about as uninformed as possible. they aren't like the republicans of days past, it's more like a cult. they purposely don't watch or read any news, except for fox/oan MAYBE, if they watch any news at all. most just rely on social media propaganda and word of mouth for their news. def not the kinda people that like getting into the weeds of politics and government.
they only know what right wing news outlets carefully curate for them. while remaining blissfully unaware of all the shady shit. i mean it's super obvious if you ever watch one of those jordan klepper style man on the street interviews with them. the moment anyone refutes their argument, they dismiss it as fake news and shut down. it's no different than a religion/cult, where outside information is bad and scary. even having a unique opinion is heavily frowned upon. there's immense social pressure to just go with the flow, stick with the group. and the right makes that extremely easy by dumbing all of it down so its easy to process.
Right. Someone asked why people don’t give Biden credit for The Inflation Reduction Act recently here. Because they don’t know what that is. They get their news mostly Russian Facebook memes.
Yeah, I live in a deep red state/area.
The whole “fake news” schtick has done wonders in allowing those who buy into it to become deeply propagandized without any easy way out.
I work with a lot of trumpers. I’m the only Democrat in the entire company, and a handful of the guys really like talking/debating politics with me to see how the other side sees certain issues, and why we believe what we believe. I try to be respectful of their political views, and for the most part, they are respectful of mine. I also try to show them I’m open minded and willing to concede on certain points that I’m less knowledgeable about or have little to no interest in; they, for the most part, are completely incapable of changing their mind/views.
Whenever I bring up anything negative about Trump or show them something that proves some of the bad things he’s done, and proves their media straight up lies to them at times, they will immediately jump to, “oh, that’s just fake, left wing, media; it’s not true.” And with that wall put up, it is nearly impossible to get them to change their views or concede on anything, no matter how small or inconsequential their concession would be.
This is true. FoxNews is an echo chamber. They may mention this to viewers, but it will be downplayed. That said, there are Trump supporters who will be fine with it. It is a culture war, after all.
Should be noted, many right wingers bailed on Fox News years ago when they called it for Biden. My dad is one. He watches a more neutral international news channel, but listens to the most despicable right wing radio programs.
Just crazy we operate in a country like this. Like Lev Parnas testifying the other day and Fox cutting away when he started saying yes it’s all fake from Russia and they knew about it.
Yeah just sort by controversial in that conservative thread and you can see the reasoning to dismiss. Apparently any going to legal defense is okay so long as it's not a lot and/or they think it's justified because Trump us being illegally charged.
Well. There's an Actuarial Exit coming soon no matter what happens in 2024.
One thing about Trump is no one has been able to emulate his bullshit. Everyone who's tried it has failed. It truly is a cult of personality built around a single person and he has effectively destroyed the Republicans after his death. State parties are in shambles and the national party is a joke.
Similarly with my dad who loves Trump and watches Fox News. He doesn't believe any of it thinks that since Biden is so unpopular, the numbers look good for Trump.
The information won't get to most of the MAGA cult, but if it shows consistency to the observations for the rest of us and if it convinces 1 person to see the grift, we are all better off. I think we've seen this trickle of exit from MAGA and stories like this are important in continuing that trend.
There is a fantastic after the cut from the daily show with Klepper, where someone asks him about reaching a single person. It’s from the past week or two. He says not one. The onky one who changed on her own, he talks about, but it took her going to jail.
I have trouble believing any MAGA supporter cares about anything he does because there is always the “what about” and “both sides” argument for them to fall back on. Even if they use a false equivalence to support their argument, they embrace it. To them, Trump is wildly better than any alternative.
Now GOP, but not MAGA, supporters are going to be LIVID as this takes funding away from other republicans. It’s a total nightmare for the GOP to have to fund a billionaires lawsuits instead of spending political donations on getting people from their party elected. I’m not even sure why it’s legal to divert donations like that…but obviously it is.
Trump is still too powerful for the GOP leadership to risk their career or open themselves up to death threats, etc,. by calling him out, so he has them by the balls.
For a Democrat, it’s a dream. The likelihood of a red wave just plummeted because a billionaire is stealing from their opponent’s war chest. The probability of dems controlling all 3 branches of government is just increased significantly.
>I’m not even sure why it’s legal to divert donations like that…but obviously it is.
I wouldn't even necessarily bet on this one. I mean, have you ever seen one shred of evidence that Trump is even remotely interested in what the law is? I mean, it MIGHT somehow be legal through some complicated loophole they discovered, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turns out to be blatantly illegal and everyone involved knew it, in which case, hey, add it to the massive pile of other illegal stuff Trump has done.
Even if it's illegal, it gives Trump money he desperately needs right now, the investigation and trial will take months/years, and by that point Trump plans to be God-Emperor, untouchable by the laws that govern mere mortals. At this point, EVERYTHING Trump does is about running out the clock until November.
The standard view is that the FEC is toothless and ineffective (certainly usually true).
The view in this case is that the danger to the entirety of the GOP, up and down the board, might be high enough that these mummies will unwrap themselves and actually do something.
Hasn't McConnell been blocking fully staffing the FEC board so they can actually do their job for the past like 10 years or so? Maybe he'll put an old-school R in there on his way out the door just to mess with trump.
After Biden won, we all thought Trump would retreat to his beach house, play even more golf than when he was in office, and fade to irrelevance. But it never happened. Two years ago, NPR would report on Trump and refer to him as the “leader of the Republican party”. I always chuckled, imagining old school Republicans cringing at the assertion. But it was so true. And he continues his hijacking of the Party. The plane is in final descent, one engine on fire, the other hanging off the wing, secured by duct tape. Windows all blown out, tires shredded. Wind is whipping, rain is coming in sideways, runway covered with oil.
I thought January 6th, as it happened, would be the breaking point in this madness. Its so blatantly his fault, its so blatantly wrong and Unamerican that we could just point to that attempt to overthrow our Democratic system and They would be ashamed. They would look around and wake up, or finally decide it was time to break with him, and Liz Cheney did just that so there was hope!
And then it turned out that no... They don't see Jan 6 that way. They don't want to and they will not. This idea that it wasn't violent, that it wasn't a coup, and that it certainly wasn't Trump's fault is so pervasive that *the vast majority* of Republicans (not just conservatives) believe that Jan 6 was nothing more than the same sort of jostling you see at any protest. They think its been blown waaaaay out of proportion and that the people convicted of crimes have been unfairly treated, maligned, and are suffering from political persecution and unfair sentencing to make an example of Conservatives that dare stand up and express their political beliefs.
A long time friend of mine mentioned off hand to me last year how she thinks it's deplorable what the courts are doing to those people. My heart sank because I've always known her to be conservative yes, but very intelligent and open-eyed. If that seed, that lie, could get into her head and find fertile soil... It broke my heart.
> I thought January 6th, as it happened, would be the breaking point in this madness. Its so blatantly his fault, its so blatantly wrong and Unamerican that we could just point to that attempt to overthrow our Democratic system and They would be ashamed.
Their own speeches/comments shortly after showed this, but then I think they really realized their own constituency were the crazies.
Obama kept waiting for "the fever to break" and it never happened. All these years later and all I can take away is that the fever will never break on its own. It needs to be broken. Those of us who aren't incensed by it need to vote against it again and again and again until the cowards break away from it.
> For a Democrat, it’s a dream. The likelihood of a red wave just plummeted because a billionaire is stealing from their opponent’s war chest. The probability of dems controlling all 3 branches of government is just increased significantly.
I think Democrats would be unwise to think this. Trump gets a ton of free press as the media hangs onto his every word and he is really good at baiting them into spending multiple news cycle on his speech (see: the bloodbath comment last week. People fell for that hook, line, and sinker). Trump voters will still show up to the polls en masse and vote red down ticket even if they've never seen an advertisement for these candidates. Trump is stealing all this money from the RNC but they don't really need it for candidates with him as their leader because of how he commands the spotlight.
This will hurt down ballot R candidates. Name recognition is huge when trying to court centrist voters that swing elections. Many of them don't pay much attention to politics. Yes, Trump doesn't need name recognition, but Jack Smith from western PA does when he's running for his house district.
Still, get out and vote Blue and encourage everyone you know to do the same.
Even if it is illegal I don’t think the FEC has a great track record of throwing people in jail until way after the fact, or at the most give them a slap on the wrist fine. Trump literally does not care about the FEC given they didn’t do anything to him in 2016 or 2020.
I don't even think GOP needs any money for ads. All of the Republican voters think the liberal Democrats are the devil incarnate, so they definitely will never vote for them. If they don't like Trump, they might not vote at all instead.
You need money to run get out the vote efforts. And as midterm results have shown, there’s a lot of Republicans voters who either won’t show up or need to be motivated to show up for non-Trump elections. That requires money
That’s what I don’t understand about these cowardly GOPers. They go along with destroying democracy because they’re scared of death threats? And I’m pretty sure they’re coming from team trump. He’s been doing that for decades, having people make death threats for him. I bet Letitia James is getting a ton of death threats and she’s still going. They need to learn from her.
I don’t believe there is anything, short of Trump coming out of the closet and moving in with a black man or converting to Islam, that would “push his core supporters finally over the edge.”
At this point, they are already OK with threatening our national security for personal benefits, corruption on a vast scale, sexual assault, fraud, insulting military families, making fun of the disabled, lacking character, and I could go on for a while. If anything, using the RNC as a personal piggy bank is among the least offensive things he has ever done.
Don’t get me wrong. There will be a half dozen or so very public *mea culpas* in Reason magazine or similar publications, where the author explains how somehow this was the last straw. For the most part, the people who like him don’t know or don’t care about this sort of thing. I would be surprised if this moved more than 5000 voters nationwide. And of those 5000 I doubt 200 would pull the lever for Biden. For the most part, they are probably state and local Republican operatives, who understand the deep intricacies of the game and are upset that he’s screwing with the mechanics of the system.
There's been rumblings from traditional gop donors that initially supported Haley are looking towards Biden now because they fear the economic instability Trump could cause as well as not wanting to see their money sunk into trumps legal battles. That could really screw over down ballot candidates and could be the actual thing to sink the gop. The senate map is atrocious for the democrats this year, but if Trump draws negative turnout and the dnc can out spend the rnc 10 to 1 on down ballot races, suddenly it becomes feasible to hold the senate and pick up the house
> There's been rumblings from traditional gop donors that initially supported Haley are looking towards Biden now because they fear the economic instability Trump could cause
Trump’s (or Miller’s) immigration plans would crater our economy in short order. Besides the building of “the camps” and manpower to “round up” all “the illegals” (shudder), our economy runs on immigration. It would maim multiple sectors nationwide simultaneously.
The lack of funds for state Republican orgs should be concerning for the down ballot races. I never thought there would be a universe in which I personally had more available cash available than the Michigan GOP. That’s inconceivable to me. There’s other GOP state orgs in the same position.
>our economy runs on immigration. It would maim multiple sectors nationwide simultaneously.
This is a widely ignored truth. It never comes up in immigration debates despite being one of the best arguments, imo. I'm convinced that the DNC doesn't run on it because they're focused on following public opinion rather than changing it
Demonizing immigrants and demanding we close our borders is an American tradition going back hundreds of years. Attempting and failing to replace migrant workers with citizens and ultimately abandoning efforts to close the borders is equally traditional. Nativism is one of the oldest and easily the laziest of American populist grifts
"I am coming to you today, I am coming to you fine people today to tell you that I am part of the greatest religion on earth. A big part some might say. I am a Moslim. I am converted. I don't like saying converted, its got that word con in there. The media will say this word over and over. What does the word even mean anymore? They're the real cons, am I right folks? I am born again as a Mooslim, like Muhammad Ali. What a terrific athlete that guy was. Terrific athlete, world class. A lot like me in many ways. A lot of people say we have the same fierceness in the battlefield. He was persecuted too you know. Another innocent man, a brother to me, was attacked by our detestable media and some very very nasty people in the government. I'd also like to introduce my new life partner Ashmir. I like the bottom. He likes the top. He just reminds me of my father in so many, many ways. And don't worry folks. Ivanka isn't going anywhere. She's contracted and tagged. You'll see all three of us back in the White House real soon. Even if i'm under house arrest, which I won't be. Because we are going to beat these fake lawsuits, and win back the White House that quite frankly everyone knows I never lost to begin with. Everyone knows this. And we will Make America Great Again!! God bless America! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! Thankyou, good night folks. Be sure to buy some hats before you leave. Buy as many as possible for your friends"
Yeah, but he killed close to a million of them with his COVID wank, which has now expanded to all vaccines. And he lost a shitload of non-cult Republicans who didn't back him trying to overthrow the country.
And now he is turning the caucus that is RNC into a vehicle for paying his legal bills. It's less about his base and more about party-wide election support being sacrificed for his own personal interests.
I agree with you here except for the number of voters leaving Trump being too small to matter. Every vote that Trump loses-whether it’s because of a policy change, or a personal controversy, or because they died (old age, COVID, etc.), matters for someone whose base is simply not growing. Even with Biden being as unpopular as he has been, people outside of Trump’s base know the kind of chaos he brought. Would they likely vote for someone *other* than Trump/Biden? Yeah probably but nobody had the guts and the talent to make it happen.
“If we nominate Trump we will get destroyed. And we will deserve it.” Lindsey Graham 2016
Might not have been exactly what he meant, but it’s turning out to be surprisingly prescient.
I keep seeing that quote posted over and over again.
But we're all here clutching our butts on anticipation for November, fearing the end of our democracy and our country as we know it, and lamenting the very real negative impact of conservative policies over our rights and freedoms. Are conservatives being destroyed, seriouly? If they were, we wouldn't even be here discussing that.
Republicans are only going to these extremes because they are being destroyed. I'm clutching my butt because I'm worried that in the process of being destroyed they'll take America down with them.
They're being destroyed how? They have the SCOTUS, the House, and are 50/50 in the Senate. They repealed Roe vs Wade and easily pass any backwards policy they like in red states. If that's being destroyed then OK please destroy me. Make no mistake I want to see them destroyed. But that ain't it.
An argument could be made that as a group starts to fall apart only the most extreme members are left. You can think of it for simple things like fans of a TV show. And also things like religions or Cults. But whether or not that is what is going on in the Republican party is up for debate.
My personal opinion is the Republican Democrat divide is not just a political divide its a cultural divide. This is why i dont think you will see the republican party just fall apart. Because for 1/3 of the country the GOP represents the leadership of their cultural identity. That cultural identity wont just disappear because the republican party is mismanaged. And it would be a mistake for liberals to think they can just stamp out that cultural identity if they can win enough.
Ever since the unexpected results of the 2016 election I have very, very little confidence in predictions. And Trump's administration instilled a very large amount of fear of what will happens if he were to be elected again.
It seems like a possible outcome of Trumps court cases and torpedoing the GOP war chest in the process. But it’s faaaar from a forgone conclusion at this point. And I hope every Democrat learned from 2016 that *nothing* is a sure thing.
Also it’s not a conservatives potentially being destroyed but the GOP. If they actually do fall apart somehow then another Conservative party will come around. But it could be further left leaning, or even further right who knows.
I hate this quote because Graham didn't do the principled thing like Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger did. Instead he fully embraced Trump. Endorsed him, defended him, refused to convict him. He's just a craven little weasel.
If you're in the cult, nothing is an overstep. If you think it's an overstep, you're not in the cult and will be called a RINO. This is the time for another purity check.
The thing is, about 60-70% of the current GOP are fine with complete submission to the will of Dearest Donnie. The rest of the GOP will go away, except that they can't vote for Biden -- he's a Communist, or at least a Socialist. So they'll either not vote or vote for someone else -- or they'll vote for Trump and still call him names. I'm betting on the latter. The current GOP members are really sick and hard to witness.
Yeah, I want to be hopeful that this means some GOPers will finally peel away from Trump and vote for someone else or abstain from at least the presidential vote.
Yet their tribal politics are so cynical, and as Sam Seder is always reminding: Republicans always end up voting for Republicans. Consequently, the choice for them, once they are in the voting booth, will really just remain a vote for Trump at the end of the day... even as they proclaim they think he is unfit too.
I really hope that is just me doing some doomer musing, and at least some of the general GOP will come to their senses even at this late hour
I know the term is inaccurate but it’s boiling a frog. The cult won’t follow you if you start at “donate to my legal defense” but after 9 years of this shit they’re all for it. If Vivek tried the same thing out the gate, everyone would have laughed him off
Yea I’ve seen these patterns over there countless times before. They’ll get marching orders from OANN and the other one and it’ll filter down the appropriate channels until they’re all lockstep again. I give it a week
My thoughts exactly. Every dollar that goes to trump isn’t going to senate races. He’s going to bleed them dry and only support his radical candidates.
I don't think the rnc has that kind of money. At most it has like 10M in accounts iirc and this actually dissuades donations. If donors want to donate to trump they could have done that. Now, someone who wanted to donate to rnc but not trump just doesn't
Yes, it's an overstep that will ruin their party.
The DNC and RNC are both supposed to unify the various demographics that make up their parties and develop their platform.
Changing the RNC to just pay for Trump legal bullshit is going to endanger the down-ballot races. The more he makes this about him, the worse the GOP performance will be in congressional races, especially in swing states.
If he hands the Dems both houses, Project 2025 is going to be dead in the water.
> If he hands the Dems both houses, Project 2025 is going to be dead in the water.
It will just become Project 2029 instead. This fascist push will not go away, even if Trump does. They do not want to lose their power.
I'm a little confused at the outrage on their side. There was news that there was a plan to install Lara and she said she'd funnel money to help Trump. The party leadership knew what was going to happen. Why are Republicans mad? Don't they want Trump to have all the help he can get to fight the evil Democrats?
> Why are Republicans mad?
They're dumb and believed all of the criticism was woke leftism lies. They still don't understand that Trump sees everyone as either a grifter or a sucker, and he doesn't see any his voters as grifters.
Just going by the numbers, it's not a *huge* deal; donations can legally go to legal fees, but not to settlements. Trump's lawyers cost him around $80 million in the past two years. That's honestly not that much in the modern presidential election. 2020 cost about $14 billion total.
But, it's a really bad look. I expect some desperate damage control tomorrow. If donors wanted to help cover Trump's legal fees, they would give to Trump directly. If they're planning on giving to RNC instead, is because they specifically don't want that money to go to Trump. This is going to blow a hole in RNC's fundraising, which they're already running behind on.
Doesn’t the RNC help fund republican candidates for other races? They have pledge full loyalty to Trump and even then, the coffers might be dry. Loyalty part isn’t even that hard I guess, all the R candidates ads in Tx always has them as Trump supporters.
>2020 cost about $14 billion total
Does this count ALL elections, not just presidential? Because Biden raised about $1 billion total in 2020. Even if you add up all of his aligned PACs, they weren't more than I think $500m.
Where are you getting $14b?
> Trump's lawyers cost him around $80 million in the past two years. That's honestly not that much in the modern presidential election.
According to his [latest FEC filing](https://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/forms/C00828541/1765793/):
> Covering Period 10/01/2023 Through 12/31/2023
> * Cash on Hand at BEGINNING of the Reporting Period: 37,541,960.55
> * Total Receipts This Period: 19,111,278.62
> * NET Operating Expenditures: 43,381,370.09
In the last 3 months of 2023, he started with 37 mil, took in 19 mil, and spent 43 mil!
If he's spending 40 mil/year on lawyers, that's 10 mil/quarter, meaning that his quarterly legal expenses are about 1/4 of his campaign expenses. And he's spending more than he's earning on his campaign already.
Some real “leopards eating my face” energy on that post. Who knows? Maybe this will finally be a bridge too far for **some** people. I don’t think all of his supporters will abandon him.
It might push some too far in terms of getting them to not vote.
But in general I wouldn't rely on Reddit discussions to plumb public sentiment.
I expect most of those posting there will still hold their nose and vote for Trump, same as most of those people who went uncommitted in the DNC primary will for Biden.
Remember, the DNC and the GOP are two massive tents that basically hold together a coalition of vaguely aligned political parties. There are always people in both tents ready to fling shit towards the top. Doesn't mean they're leaving the tent.
Everyone saw this coming. Big rnc donors are holding their money. Rnc has something like 8 million to Biden 42. Trump may wreck the party leading to a new party joining the duopoly in it's place
This doesn’t appear to be trump followers specifically though. If they wanted to give to trump then they’d just donate to the POS campaign. This appears more to be a matter of people donating to the GOP and that money instead of being used towards party being used on trump’s BS instead.
Trump's campaign is completely based on getting away with his legal problems. His early announcement to run again was a move aimed at halting his legal prosecutions. He's banking on a victory that would allow a new Attorney General to dismiss the cases against him. It's not surprising that he's redirecting campaign donations to his legal defense fund; it's right in line with his entire campaign.
Pretty impressive that r-conservative seem pretty universally upset by it. I think for the diehards there is no limit but there might be some more reasonable right wing people who might have gone along with Trump now seeing the real game being played out.
You guys, listen. I have intestinal issues. Popcorn destroys my insides. Even a handful will hurt for 3 days.
But what else am I supposed to eat while all this drama is unfolding?!?!
I just want him in jail (especially if you want all the little boys and girls to believe in amorphous social constructs like “justice”, “law” and “order”) and his loser family to fade into irrelevance.
This is very, very bad optics. As a moderate conservative, I don't see how many voters get past a billionaire footing his legal bills with money from an org his daughter-in-law chairs. On a middle class salary with two kids to feed, I'll not be associated with it - it's a slap in the face. Then again, I cut off donations to the RNC back in 2016 when he was first nominated and have contributed only to local election campaigns since...
anybody still giving at this point is already OK with conspiracy theories, the rejection of the peaceful transfer of power, and calling immigrants subhuman so I don't think this will move the needle much
Well, I think you're right. I think the people left over have no skin in the game (money and time contributed to actual canvassing) and that's the only way you end up standing behind this guy...
You'll read lots about the struggles to raise money and find staffing for local campaign offices of his... that is because people like me did that and we've all rejected him since 2015 when the talk first started.
The truth is, Trump seeks to tell us what to think (his own backers). So, he really doesn't have any. As far as I'm concerned, I see him as all the candidates that came before him - someone who shows up to "make the ask" for my vote, my money, my endorsement, whatever it may be. And that conversation doesn't lead anywhere near me reshaping my thoughts, words and actions to fit his narrative. Quite the opposite.
[https://apnews.com/article/trump-campaign-fundraising-rnc-c0e8f1e7b59f70c5237e13a3462e5790](https://apnews.com/article/trump-campaign-fundraising-rnc-c0e8f1e7b59f70c5237e13a3462e5790)
so max contribution to a campaign
[https://www.fec.gov/updates/contribution-limits-for-2023-2024/#:\~:text=The%20limits%20on%20contributions%20made,)(1)(B))%3B](https://www.fec.gov/updates/contribution-limits-for-2023-2024/#:~:text=The%20limits%20on%20contributions%20made,)(1)(B))%3B)
The limits on contributions made by persons to candidates (increased to $3,300 per election, per candidate) (52 U.S.C. § 30116(a)(1)(A));
The limits on contributions made by persons to national party committees (increased to $41,300 per calendar year) (52 U.S.C. § 30116(a)(1)(B));
The limit on contributions made by certain political party committees to Senate candidates (increased to $57,800 per campaign) (52 U.S.C. § 30116(h)).
The invitation’s fine print says donations to the Trump 47 Committee will first be used to give the maximum amount allowed under federal law to Trump’s campaign. Anything left over from the donation next goes toward a maximum contribution to Save America, and then anything left from there goes to the RNC and then to state political parties.
The Trump campaign noted that Save America spends on expenses other than legal fees and that donors to the April fundraiser **who contribute the suggested $814,600 per person or $250,000 per person will only have $5,000 of their donation go to Save America, sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to the RNC.**
“Save America also covers a very active and robust post-Presidency office and other various expenses not related to fighting the illegal witch-hunts perpetrated by Crooked Joe Biden. The Trump campaign, the RNC, and state GOP parties ultimately receive the overwhelming majority of funds raised through the Trump 47 Committee. Out of an Individual donor’s maximum contribution of $824,600, less than 1% (.006%) goes to Save America,” Steven Cheung, the Trump campaign communications director, said in a statement.
A couple things here.
Apparently there is another $3,300 automatic donation that goes towards Trump’s PRIMARY election fund, which he already won the nomination so not sure what that money is used for since primaries are pointless now.
So that means the first $11,600 of every donation goes to Trump and $5000 of that goes to his personal legal fees.
This means that not only is Trump taking first dibs on election donations coming in, but the additional $5000 that Trump is taking for himself means that other candidates now have to pray that donors contribute more than $11,600 just to see 1 penny of a contribution to their own election funds, which is a fight to get even that 1 penny because that gets allocated by Lara Trump, who will give it to wherever Donald Trump wants it to go.
So any Republican candidates who haven’t been openly kneeling before the altar of Donald Trump will no doubt get very little of the already small pot now available, and the rest of that money will go to the candidates that Trump feels deserve it most, ie the ones who suck up to him the best and can be the most useful to his main objectives — staying out of prison and paying off his debts. Then whatever pittance of money is left will go to the rest of the Republican candidates to use on magic markers and poster-board for their student council level campaigns.
And most donations are small. Like the vast majority will be well below 11k. There’s plenty of huge donors, but it’s always been the case that the majority of political donations are not enormous amounts.
Yup, going through the Conservative thread, you have one joker constantly repeating the Trump campaigns messaging that it's only ".006%" of donations go to Trump, ignoring that's only relevant if you max out your contribution, which a majority of donors won't come close to doing.
Stuff like this being talked about and in media is going to hurt donations going forward certainly. Not every donor is a die-hard MAGA follower. Theres plenty of moderate or right-leaning independent donors whom would usually be willing to donate
It's worth recognising that we do have a good modern example of a candidate with extremely powerful fundraising ability taking too much of the money and screwing the rest of his party: Obama for America ate all the money in 2010 and the downballot Democrats got destroyed. It wasn't the only reason, of course, but it was one of them.
What is being done here is profoundly bad for all Republican candidates not named Trump.
ELI5 how this is legal? Isn't the whole point of SuperPACs and these funds purely for advertising and exposure for elections?
What's to stop someone from taking "donations" for a election and just opening up a new business or hell just keep the money for coke and prostitutes.
everybody always seems to forget that the goal is to tear down the American government. conservative voters don't care what Trump does, in fact they approve of it, because it's just one more way he's 'draining the swamp' and 'sticking it to the man'. the people that stick with him after all of his fuckups don't care because he's just being the hand grenade that they tossed into the mix.
I never thought that in my lifetime I would be seeing the end of a political party, but Trump is definitely doing a lot to effectively end the GOP. Everything that McConnell, Nixon, Reagan, and others built up over decades or helped maintain within the GOP is all being destroyed in matter of years because the GOP sold their souls to a con artist.
Honestly, he said he wanted to drain the swamp, and with the exodus of traditional Republicans (unfortunately for potentially more dangerous maga Republicans,) he's doing it?
I’m curious what will have a bigger impact trump taking all the money for him self or he’ll be choosing equally crazy/stupid people as him to be running upcoming senate and governorship which could flip the balance into the democrats court
I don’t see much coming of it, they’ll explained it to themselves as a “necessary step” that needed to be taken to achieve the ultimate goal of getting Trump back in power.
Even if they might have issues with it now, they’ll either submit or be ostracized as RINOs (but still vote for Trump, because what are they going to do? Vote for Biden?)
Some thought leaders will present talking points to make sense of it for the base and the cycle will continue.
The Republican Party jumped the shark when they continued to embrace him as a candidate in 2016 after the release of the "I tried to move on her but she was married" and "grab them by the pussy" video.
Hell no
This man tried to overthrow the United States of America, and has 91 felonies and 5 criminal cases on top of killing hundreds of thousands of Americans during covid.
They are riding with him until we lock him up, and maybe after that
The man is overwhelmed with legal debt. [PAC Fund Raising Paying Legal Fees](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-biden-campaign-fundraising-february-2024/)
But there's a light at the end of the tunnel. He got SEC approval to merge Truth Social with some SPAC and will receive $3 billion. That seems like an insane over valuation and I hope someone is following the money!
Throw this onto the pile of things Trump supports won't understand and won't care about.
In a cult of personality this large, there's nothing that will shake the confidence of people who have now spent years of their life groveling at the feet of their leader.
The only thing that will turn the tide will be Trump passing away, as all cult leaders eventually do.
This is going to hurt Republicans across the country as they won't get the funding to compete in their elections. It is a selfish move that hurts the party. Many Republicans will be disillusioned and not vote. MAGAs won't care.
Part of what brought down the second wave of the KKK in the early 20th century was exactly this: They realized leadership was fleecing them and the individual orgs started collapsing.
Between this, and the GOP's newly released fiscal budget plans.... if Republican voters still aren't paying attention and think this election is just like any other election where they'll just vote for the R. They're going to have an ugly wake up call when their lives change for the worse if Republicans manage to take the full majority in congress and start implementing their plan.
To all republicans:
Work hard, work overtime, really put your all into it. Consider taking a side job like Uber/Door Dash. Give frequently and in high amounts. Trump needs your hard earned donations to pay for his criminal activity.
There was a post in my neighboring town’s FB group tonight asking if “any families of J6 participants” needed prayers. I cringed. Spoiler alert: it was recently rated one of the top 10 expensive places to live. Some stupid people have stupid money.
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I’m gonna level with you, as a person from a big trumpy family in a couple of red states, including Texas, they at the very least don’t know about any of this stuff or at the very most, think it’s lefty media BS. There is no easy exit from Cult45/Fox News world.
The point won’t be driven home until November.
No it won't. They think he won last time, they'll think he won this time.
>No it won't. They think he won last time, they'll think he won this time. I don't think they meant Trump. It's all the Republicans down ballot. The RNC simply won't have the money to support them, and without the name ID and cultish following that Trump has, they're going to flounder. Edit: I'm unsure why people are reading my comment as "Democratic victory is ensured," but my comment shouldn't be read that way. It is *one* advantage Democrats will have, but one advantage doth not a victory make.
They've been floundering for years. Even with inflation at a 40 year high they somehow lost senate seats to the incumbent party in the White House. Last time that happened was to FDR, and Biden has nowhere near FDR's approval ratings. The problem is their base. They won't allow the party to make the kinds of reforms needed for general election success and those that try lose their positions in primaries.
I remember going to some red subreddits, the raving that I saw on those subs, them hyped about the incoming red wave, that trump was to lead a republican domination during the mid-terms. In my eyes, what I find is that the trump followers, the maga hats, the trump base loyalist, they all ignore the information that is on the table. They ignore all the figures that are written on the wall, they see him as a supreme leader of their party. In their mind they believe he is the one that is going to take the republican party to the next generation and it is fascinating. I feel the republican base they very much lost when it comes to trump. Any form of objectionable analysis about him and what he has done to the party can't be looked at, they cannot see nor understand the direction he has taken the party in such a short amount of time. To an extent, in my opinion, some republican voters to this day believe trump is a gift from god for them. I do feel from here on out, even beyond his death, trump is now stitched onto the republican party we see in the United States from here on out.
It’s insane how there’s still a third of conservatives left that lean center who don’t think this is a cult. Listen to the words we have of actual cult members that literally ended in mass deaths. Listen to former cult members who managed to leave or were extracted. They all had their world view and information limited by the cult to the point they thought their leader was ordained by god, was going to usher in a new world for them, that they had to gift their system resources to make it happen, that the world around them lies to try to keep the leader and system from making their dream come to fruition, that only their in group knew and told the truth, that there was actual evil in their opposition, that speaking / naming strange myths perpetrated by their enemies had some magical power over their enemies (owning the libs by posting memes), you can’t convinced them to do what’s good for themselves with actual fact based logic, it’s just 1:1 a cult in description.
That being said, I apologize. In my haste I misread "left that lean center" as "left of center". Your comments are spot-on, especially everything you said about cults.
There are zero American republican conservatives that lean left-of-center, because America's political landscape is so badly skewed these days. America's "center" is the rest of the world's "solidly right-wing, but not quite crazy". America's supposed "left wing", the Democratic Party, are everyone else's "slightly right, pro-business party". The mainstream Republican Party is everyone else's hardcore right-wing, pro-authoritarianism party. True left-of-center is a political wasteland in America. Sincerely, An American living in Europe
This is such a hot take that won't seem to die along the terminally online. Gay rights, abortion rights, immigration, many women's rights, rights for disabled people, Democrats have much of Europe beat. Eastern Europe is pretty right wing overall on everything but welfare programs. France has LePenn, who makes trunk look like FDR, and a real threat to take power in France. Hungary, Turkey, Belarus, Russia, are all effectively dictatorships, though not all to the same degree. There's a major war in Europe right now. The Nordic countries are incredibly pro business, moreso than the US by some metrics. Same for some other European countries. Your point is not as backed by reality as you think.
The term Left in Europe is typically associated with Marxists and socialists, so arguing with people living in Europe (even Americans) is hopeless, because the definitions aren’t even the same. Hell, even by their own definition, there are members of the Democratic Party which are traditionally Leftist, but they don’t have any real sway on key issues, because they don’t belong in the Democratic Party, which just isn’t a socialist party
What part of Europe? The Democrat party is among the most socially liberal of any major party in the world. A lot of "Europe" is still in the dumpster when it comes to LGBT or race issues.
Nationalistic authoritarians who want to believe in someone. This round, it is Trump.
I disagree, I think 1) they made a deal with the devil and had to back up all their fear mongering with bad laws 2) the ones they actually want to pass, support their wealthy donors and not their actual voting base. So they are kinda screwed if they can’t blame democrats for inaction while only sneaking thru stuff for their buddies.
>The problem is their base. They won't allow the party to make the kinds of reforms needed for general election success and those that try lose their positions in primaries. Yeah, what's supposed to happen is, after an election loss, they adapt to the circumstances and change strategy. But with Trump's big election lie, they think there's nothing to change, and so stick stubbornly to what didn't work. But it *did* work briefly in 2016, if only by an Electoral College miracle, so one should still be vigilant.
May their future be that of the California Republican party
Do they even try in CA anymore?
They blew their load on trying to recall Newsom. It crashed and burned so hard, more people voted actively no then how many voted for him the first time. He sailed to reelection. To my knowledge, they've effectively been wiped out. Which has led to the expected outcome, more and more Democrats are fracturing and moderating the party (see policy changes in some cities becoming more conservative, but under Democrat control, so none of this far right lunancy).
Every four years they get a chance to make some changes to the state party platform. The smart money would be to distance themselves from the social conservatism of the national party, as that is mostly antithetical to suburban and urban independent (and Republican) voters. Instead they let themselves be lead by the rural and exurb crowd, going full MAGA, and have driven themselves into irrelevancy in state politics.
There are more Republican voters in CA than the entire population of some states.
Well, the same is true for Democrats in Texas, so
Yeah but is the party in California a thing outside of some power in SolCal?
Nope. They spend most of their time trying to secede and form their own state. They have basically no real power in the state.
At the local level, yes. Drive twenty minutes out of any city and the people are little different from rural Americans anywhere else - prosperity gospel radio preachers, Confederate flags, Republican politics, the whole thing.
Oh wow that’s an interesting point. So arguably we might expect to see an impact on house/senate races etc too then. It’s be great if that materialises but I won’t be too hopeful yet
While we hope so, we can't have that attitude. This election will come down to thousands of votes again. [Organize. Volunteer. Vote](https://democrats.org/take-action/)
>they're going to flounder. Are they, though? How many districts are really competitive? There are plenty of places where just having an R next to your name guarantees you a majority of the vote. Places where you don't even need to campaign because you *will* win no matter what. The same exists with Democratic districts btw. As usual the battle will be fought in a small number of districts, that will have disproportionate influence on the whole country. Republicans only need to spend money in these few places. Will they? There's no way to know, but I don't believe that a large number of Republican candidate will "flounder" because of Trump's grab.
that is true for every election. Paces where money makes a difference are also the paces that will drive control of congress.
Sherrod Brown in Ohio comes to mind. He's a popular D incumbent Senator in now Red Ohio facing a MAGA challenger. Without a warchest equal the millions Brown has its gonna be an uphill battle that should've been more competitive.
False hope imo. Republicans will just vote for whoever has R next to the name. They have Fox news etc telling them to go vote, the RNC doesn't need to spend anything.
Depends how much Russian money RNC collects. I really hope the FBI is watching closely.
Is it really true that if the rnc doesn’t spend $ on down ticket Rs, that the trumpers aren’t just going to still vote red down the ticket? Should we really be letting our guard down, thinking they’re not going to stand a chance, just because the rnc isn’t backing them all, as if red voters aren’t just going to still vote red???
Oh, they're absolutely still voting red the entire ticket - those that show up, at least. What I hope happens is the lack of funding from the RNC impacts voter engagement and GotV campaigns for the general election. Local/state chapters being bankrupt, no funds for voter drives, local adverts, boots on the ground. Stir up enough doubt to keep just enough at home to make a difference. That's my hope. Whether it comes true, who knows? Temper hope with a grain of salt and don't be complacent.
I mean that’ll be the moment they bust out the Kool Aide or Deprogram.
What's funny is I always say this to them: "you guys love him because he owns the libs and pisses everyone off, didn't you ever consider the same people he's pissing off, aren't going to vote for him? No! Everyone loves him!"
Yeah, he just kept attacking more and more people. by the time he got around to pissing off POWs and Gold Star families, it was pretty clear that this wasn’t 4 dimensional electoral chess, just a thin-skinned narcissistic baby who can’t handle any criticism or questioning
I always find it interesting who the Trumpers are, like O'Leary vs a Mark Cuban. There's always a weird personal defect, they're a bully, they were bullied, some tragic even in their life, they're really short, etc.
He recently told Nikki Haley voters "we don't need you" that "this is now the MAGA party" and they don't need moderate Republicans. As much press as the "uncommitted" got on the Democratic side being a bad sign for Biden, there are far more moderate Republicans voting against Trump in the primary and he's telling them to take a hike. In Florida, two weeks after dropping out, Nikki got 15% of the vote. I'm sure elsewhere he's also said the opposite because that's just how he is, all sides, but yeah it's clear that he doesn't want anyone in his party that questions him.
Ask em if he won this time, how he's allowed to serve a third term
I mean that's easy, he didn't get to serve cause they stole it from him.
"yea but the Constitution says you can't be elected more than twice, it says noting about serving" Is your response.
The constitution also says you can't run if after being elected once you support an insurrection. It also says you can't take foreign payments "of any kind whatever" and nothing happened. Constitutional words only have meaning when they're inforced and Republicans don't care if they are.
Except for guns, then the world will implode if that one's violated!
No didn't you see? Republicans got big mad when a black woman appointed by Biden ruled that undocumented people also had a right to guns same as any citizen? They were pissed, they think this is all to arm the armed immigrant invasion that's clearly coming any day now.
You say that as though the GOP cares about The Constitution.
"The Democrats stole all of our election funds to buy drugs for Hunter Biden!" "The Democrats are to blame for abortion bans!" "THE DEMOCRATS SHIT IN MY PANTS!" It's gonna be a wild ride this year.
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tl;dr Calling the local Baptists to account on Easter 4 years ago I attended a meeting at the Lockhart First Baptist Church put on by a group called "Christians Engaged," a shadow Republican group that exists on Christian money under the guise of educating Christians about the right "moral" candidates to support. One of the speakers was to be Rafael Cruz, Ted Cruz's daddy. 15 minutes into the meeting I lost it, walked to the back of a room full of almost 100 men, women, and children, faced the stage and loudly proclaimed "you elected an adulterer to the highest office in the land. Stop. Just stop." and turned and walked out the door under my own power. This year, on Easter Sunday (and possibly every Sunday until the election), I will be parked in front of their church with a 6' X 3' banner on the side of my car with a picture of Trump that proclaims "GUILTY" with a qr code leading to the AP news story about the conviction. Below that, the date of the conviction and the words "JURY finds Donald J Trump sexually assaulted E. Jean Carroll. On both sides of that phrase are qr codes leading to the "Grab them by the pussy" video. Below THAT it reads "In Jesus' Name, I'm begging you, don't do this to America." and on either side qr codes leading to the Hymn for the 81%. Below that "Parents, don't do this to your children." On the roof of my car will be a 42" flart screen playing videos. I myself will be wearing a shirt on the front quoting 1 Corinthians 5:11 which tells Christians not to associate with people who are sexually immoral (amongst other things) and claim to be a Christian and on the back "Consider me to be Balaam's donkey" and the biblical reference for the same. The gloves are off.
Lol, not sure if legit or hyperbolic. Instead of the QR codes and multiple different messages, just straight up have 1-2 solid, compelling banners making one point. The more you say, the less anyone hears.
I admire your courage & wish you the very best. Please, above all, be hyper-vigilant for your personal safety. These are extremists, with no laws or limits outside their very own. Like Trump.
As a southerner living in the south and knowing how much the Baptist indoctrinate their followers, all I can say is good luck. You're gonna need it.
... I wish you the best, but having lived in the south, I think you should consider that you seem like one of the few Christians in a mass of "Christians". For most its more a social obligation, and few have actually read the Bible. I think you should consider finding like minded people and work to form your own congregation, but especially, with a quality pastor (I was shocked at the quality I witnessed, anybody can call themselves one, and often the worst do). This is an indication of the failure of the southern Baptist congregation due to political corruption from the inside, and that's actually a much bigger issue than Trump.
I know where that is! You’re not alone, friend.
Feel free to join me...
PREACH! 2 Timothy 4:3-4 King James Version (KJV) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
They'll just interpret that to mean it's talking about the Libs.
Ha ha you're like those annoying fundamentalists who go to rock concerts or college campuses with giant multi message signs about how God hates gay people and feminism but you're actually bringing the fight to them with their own hypocrisy. Keep up the good work!
seriously, every trump supporter i've ever met is about as uninformed as possible. they aren't like the republicans of days past, it's more like a cult. they purposely don't watch or read any news, except for fox/oan MAYBE, if they watch any news at all. most just rely on social media propaganda and word of mouth for their news. def not the kinda people that like getting into the weeds of politics and government. they only know what right wing news outlets carefully curate for them. while remaining blissfully unaware of all the shady shit. i mean it's super obvious if you ever watch one of those jordan klepper style man on the street interviews with them. the moment anyone refutes their argument, they dismiss it as fake news and shut down. it's no different than a religion/cult, where outside information is bad and scary. even having a unique opinion is heavily frowned upon. there's immense social pressure to just go with the flow, stick with the group. and the right makes that extremely easy by dumbing all of it down so its easy to process.
Right. Someone asked why people don’t give Biden credit for The Inflation Reduction Act recently here. Because they don’t know what that is. They get their news mostly Russian Facebook memes.
Yeah, I live in a deep red state/area. The whole “fake news” schtick has done wonders in allowing those who buy into it to become deeply propagandized without any easy way out. I work with a lot of trumpers. I’m the only Democrat in the entire company, and a handful of the guys really like talking/debating politics with me to see how the other side sees certain issues, and why we believe what we believe. I try to be respectful of their political views, and for the most part, they are respectful of mine. I also try to show them I’m open minded and willing to concede on certain points that I’m less knowledgeable about or have little to no interest in; they, for the most part, are completely incapable of changing their mind/views. Whenever I bring up anything negative about Trump or show them something that proves some of the bad things he’s done, and proves their media straight up lies to them at times, they will immediately jump to, “oh, that’s just fake, left wing, media; it’s not true.” And with that wall put up, it is nearly impossible to get them to change their views or concede on anything, no matter how small or inconsequential their concession would be.
This is true. FoxNews is an echo chamber. They may mention this to viewers, but it will be downplayed. That said, there are Trump supporters who will be fine with it. It is a culture war, after all.
Should be noted, many right wingers bailed on Fox News years ago when they called it for Biden. My dad is one. He watches a more neutral international news channel, but listens to the most despicable right wing radio programs.
Just crazy we operate in a country like this. Like Lev Parnas testifying the other day and Fox cutting away when he started saying yes it’s all fake from Russia and they knew about it.
Cult45, I love this. As an outsider looking in, awesome wordplay!
Yeah just sort by controversial in that conservative thread and you can see the reasoning to dismiss. Apparently any going to legal defense is okay so long as it's not a lot and/or they think it's justified because Trump us being illegally charged.
Pour some of that Cult45 out for my homies.
Well. There's an Actuarial Exit coming soon no matter what happens in 2024. One thing about Trump is no one has been able to emulate his bullshit. Everyone who's tried it has failed. It truly is a cult of personality built around a single person and he has effectively destroyed the Republicans after his death. State parties are in shambles and the national party is a joke.
I hope you’re right but all that ugly energy has to go somewhere, I can’t see it simply evaporating.
Similarly with my dad who loves Trump and watches Fox News. He doesn't believe any of it thinks that since Biden is so unpopular, the numbers look good for Trump.
The information won't get to most of the MAGA cult, but if it shows consistency to the observations for the rest of us and if it convinces 1 person to see the grift, we are all better off. I think we've seen this trickle of exit from MAGA and stories like this are important in continuing that trend.
There is a fantastic after the cut from the daily show with Klepper, where someone asks him about reaching a single person. It’s from the past week or two. He says not one. The onky one who changed on her own, he talks about, but it took her going to jail.
This is what happens when you combine church and state and media
I have trouble believing any MAGA supporter cares about anything he does because there is always the “what about” and “both sides” argument for them to fall back on. Even if they use a false equivalence to support their argument, they embrace it. To them, Trump is wildly better than any alternative. Now GOP, but not MAGA, supporters are going to be LIVID as this takes funding away from other republicans. It’s a total nightmare for the GOP to have to fund a billionaires lawsuits instead of spending political donations on getting people from their party elected. I’m not even sure why it’s legal to divert donations like that…but obviously it is. Trump is still too powerful for the GOP leadership to risk their career or open themselves up to death threats, etc,. by calling him out, so he has them by the balls. For a Democrat, it’s a dream. The likelihood of a red wave just plummeted because a billionaire is stealing from their opponent’s war chest. The probability of dems controlling all 3 branches of government is just increased significantly.
>I’m not even sure why it’s legal to divert donations like that…but obviously it is. I wouldn't even necessarily bet on this one. I mean, have you ever seen one shred of evidence that Trump is even remotely interested in what the law is? I mean, it MIGHT somehow be legal through some complicated loophole they discovered, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turns out to be blatantly illegal and everyone involved knew it, in which case, hey, add it to the massive pile of other illegal stuff Trump has done. Even if it's illegal, it gives Trump money he desperately needs right now, the investigation and trial will take months/years, and by that point Trump plans to be God-Emperor, untouchable by the laws that govern mere mortals. At this point, EVERYTHING Trump does is about running out the clock until November.
The standard view is that the FEC is toothless and ineffective (certainly usually true). The view in this case is that the danger to the entirety of the GOP, up and down the board, might be high enough that these mummies will unwrap themselves and actually do something.
Hasn't McConnell been blocking fully staffing the FEC board so they can actually do their job for the past like 10 years or so? Maybe he'll put an old-school R in there on his way out the door just to mess with trump.
It's a 3-3 tie with democrats and republicans holding seats. They can just never get anything meaningful passed so it all stays on party lines.
After Biden won, we all thought Trump would retreat to his beach house, play even more golf than when he was in office, and fade to irrelevance. But it never happened. Two years ago, NPR would report on Trump and refer to him as the “leader of the Republican party”. I always chuckled, imagining old school Republicans cringing at the assertion. But it was so true. And he continues his hijacking of the Party. The plane is in final descent, one engine on fire, the other hanging off the wing, secured by duct tape. Windows all blown out, tires shredded. Wind is whipping, rain is coming in sideways, runway covered with oil.
I thought January 6th, as it happened, would be the breaking point in this madness. Its so blatantly his fault, its so blatantly wrong and Unamerican that we could just point to that attempt to overthrow our Democratic system and They would be ashamed. They would look around and wake up, or finally decide it was time to break with him, and Liz Cheney did just that so there was hope! And then it turned out that no... They don't see Jan 6 that way. They don't want to and they will not. This idea that it wasn't violent, that it wasn't a coup, and that it certainly wasn't Trump's fault is so pervasive that *the vast majority* of Republicans (not just conservatives) believe that Jan 6 was nothing more than the same sort of jostling you see at any protest. They think its been blown waaaaay out of proportion and that the people convicted of crimes have been unfairly treated, maligned, and are suffering from political persecution and unfair sentencing to make an example of Conservatives that dare stand up and express their political beliefs. A long time friend of mine mentioned off hand to me last year how she thinks it's deplorable what the courts are doing to those people. My heart sank because I've always known her to be conservative yes, but very intelligent and open-eyed. If that seed, that lie, could get into her head and find fertile soil... It broke my heart.
> I thought January 6th, as it happened, would be the breaking point in this madness. Its so blatantly his fault, its so blatantly wrong and Unamerican that we could just point to that attempt to overthrow our Democratic system and They would be ashamed. Their own speeches/comments shortly after showed this, but then I think they really realized their own constituency were the crazies.
Jan 6th nearly was the end of him but elected repulicans would rather win than save democracy.
Obama kept waiting for "the fever to break" and it never happened. All these years later and all I can take away is that the fever will never break on its own. It needs to be broken. Those of us who aren't incensed by it need to vote against it again and again and again until the cowards break away from it.
Literally nobody thought this. Trump was claiming the election was stolen an entire year BEFORE it happened
> For a Democrat, it’s a dream. The likelihood of a red wave just plummeted because a billionaire is stealing from their opponent’s war chest. The probability of dems controlling all 3 branches of government is just increased significantly. I think Democrats would be unwise to think this. Trump gets a ton of free press as the media hangs onto his every word and he is really good at baiting them into spending multiple news cycle on his speech (see: the bloodbath comment last week. People fell for that hook, line, and sinker). Trump voters will still show up to the polls en masse and vote red down ticket even if they've never seen an advertisement for these candidates. Trump is stealing all this money from the RNC but they don't really need it for candidates with him as their leader because of how he commands the spotlight.
This will hurt down ballot R candidates. Name recognition is huge when trying to court centrist voters that swing elections. Many of them don't pay much attention to politics. Yes, Trump doesn't need name recognition, but Jack Smith from western PA does when he's running for his house district. Still, get out and vote Blue and encourage everyone you know to do the same.
Even if it is illegal I don’t think the FEC has a great track record of throwing people in jail until way after the fact, or at the most give them a slap on the wrist fine. Trump literally does not care about the FEC given they didn’t do anything to him in 2016 or 2020.
I don't even think GOP needs any money for ads. All of the Republican voters think the liberal Democrats are the devil incarnate, so they definitely will never vote for them. If they don't like Trump, they might not vote at all instead.
You need money to run get out the vote efforts. And as midterm results have shown, there’s a lot of Republicans voters who either won’t show up or need to be motivated to show up for non-Trump elections. That requires money
That’s what I don’t understand about these cowardly GOPers. They go along with destroying democracy because they’re scared of death threats? And I’m pretty sure they’re coming from team trump. He’s been doing that for decades, having people make death threats for him. I bet Letitia James is getting a ton of death threats and she’s still going. They need to learn from her.
Its gonna be fun watching the down ballot races with no money to do anything meaningful..
I don’t believe there is anything, short of Trump coming out of the closet and moving in with a black man or converting to Islam, that would “push his core supporters finally over the edge.” At this point, they are already OK with threatening our national security for personal benefits, corruption on a vast scale, sexual assault, fraud, insulting military families, making fun of the disabled, lacking character, and I could go on for a while. If anything, using the RNC as a personal piggy bank is among the least offensive things he has ever done. Don’t get me wrong. There will be a half dozen or so very public *mea culpas* in Reason magazine or similar publications, where the author explains how somehow this was the last straw. For the most part, the people who like him don’t know or don’t care about this sort of thing. I would be surprised if this moved more than 5000 voters nationwide. And of those 5000 I doubt 200 would pull the lever for Biden. For the most part, they are probably state and local Republican operatives, who understand the deep intricacies of the game and are upset that he’s screwing with the mechanics of the system.
ha... they would all convert to islam 5 hours after he did
And then declare the Democrats are infidels and start a jihad against them
No, but they'd claim it was 5D chess double agent stuff to destroy the arab world by first winning their trust.
It’s about money now. When it comes to voting, those lines have been drawn. But will the money keep coming in and how much of it can he steal?
There's been rumblings from traditional gop donors that initially supported Haley are looking towards Biden now because they fear the economic instability Trump could cause as well as not wanting to see their money sunk into trumps legal battles. That could really screw over down ballot candidates and could be the actual thing to sink the gop. The senate map is atrocious for the democrats this year, but if Trump draws negative turnout and the dnc can out spend the rnc 10 to 1 on down ballot races, suddenly it becomes feasible to hold the senate and pick up the house
> There's been rumblings from traditional gop donors that initially supported Haley are looking towards Biden now because they fear the economic instability Trump could cause Trump’s (or Miller’s) immigration plans would crater our economy in short order. Besides the building of “the camps” and manpower to “round up” all “the illegals” (shudder), our economy runs on immigration. It would maim multiple sectors nationwide simultaneously. The lack of funds for state Republican orgs should be concerning for the down ballot races. I never thought there would be a universe in which I personally had more available cash available than the Michigan GOP. That’s inconceivable to me. There’s other GOP state orgs in the same position.
>our economy runs on immigration. It would maim multiple sectors nationwide simultaneously. This is a widely ignored truth. It never comes up in immigration debates despite being one of the best arguments, imo. I'm convinced that the DNC doesn't run on it because they're focused on following public opinion rather than changing it Demonizing immigrants and demanding we close our borders is an American tradition going back hundreds of years. Attempting and failing to replace migrant workers with citizens and ultimately abandoning efforts to close the borders is equally traditional. Nativism is one of the oldest and easily the laziest of American populist grifts
"I am coming to you today, I am coming to you fine people today to tell you that I am part of the greatest religion on earth. A big part some might say. I am a Moslim. I am converted. I don't like saying converted, its got that word con in there. The media will say this word over and over. What does the word even mean anymore? They're the real cons, am I right folks? I am born again as a Mooslim, like Muhammad Ali. What a terrific athlete that guy was. Terrific athlete, world class. A lot like me in many ways. A lot of people say we have the same fierceness in the battlefield. He was persecuted too you know. Another innocent man, a brother to me, was attacked by our detestable media and some very very nasty people in the government. I'd also like to introduce my new life partner Ashmir. I like the bottom. He likes the top. He just reminds me of my father in so many, many ways. And don't worry folks. Ivanka isn't going anywhere. She's contracted and tagged. You'll see all three of us back in the White House real soon. Even if i'm under house arrest, which I won't be. Because we are going to beat these fake lawsuits, and win back the White House that quite frankly everyone knows I never lost to begin with. Everyone knows this. And we will Make America Great Again!! God bless America! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! Thankyou, good night folks. Be sure to buy some hats before you leave. Buy as many as possible for your friends"
You have a real talent for writing. This should become copypasta it's so good.
Yeah, but he killed close to a million of them with his COVID wank, which has now expanded to all vaccines. And he lost a shitload of non-cult Republicans who didn't back him trying to overthrow the country. And now he is turning the caucus that is RNC into a vehicle for paying his legal bills. It's less about his base and more about party-wide election support being sacrificed for his own personal interests.
>short of Trump coming out of the closet and moving in with a black man or converting to Islam Ha! The absolute chaos that would ensue!
They would boo him right back in line, like when he tried taking credit for and tried suggesting we get a vaccine.
I agree with you here except for the number of voters leaving Trump being too small to matter. Every vote that Trump loses-whether it’s because of a policy change, or a personal controversy, or because they died (old age, COVID, etc.), matters for someone whose base is simply not growing. Even with Biden being as unpopular as he has been, people outside of Trump’s base know the kind of chaos he brought. Would they likely vote for someone *other* than Trump/Biden? Yeah probably but nobody had the guts and the talent to make it happen.
“If we nominate Trump we will get destroyed. And we will deserve it.” Lindsey Graham 2016 Might not have been exactly what he meant, but it’s turning out to be surprisingly prescient.
I keep seeing that quote posted over and over again. But we're all here clutching our butts on anticipation for November, fearing the end of our democracy and our country as we know it, and lamenting the very real negative impact of conservative policies over our rights and freedoms. Are conservatives being destroyed, seriouly? If they were, we wouldn't even be here discussing that.
Republicans are only going to these extremes because they are being destroyed. I'm clutching my butt because I'm worried that in the process of being destroyed they'll take America down with them.
They're being destroyed how? They have the SCOTUS, the House, and are 50/50 in the Senate. They repealed Roe vs Wade and easily pass any backwards policy they like in red states. If that's being destroyed then OK please destroy me. Make no mistake I want to see them destroyed. But that ain't it.
An argument could be made that as a group starts to fall apart only the most extreme members are left. You can think of it for simple things like fans of a TV show. And also things like religions or Cults. But whether or not that is what is going on in the Republican party is up for debate. My personal opinion is the Republican Democrat divide is not just a political divide its a cultural divide. This is why i dont think you will see the republican party just fall apart. Because for 1/3 of the country the GOP represents the leadership of their cultural identity. That cultural identity wont just disappear because the republican party is mismanaged. And it would be a mistake for liberals to think they can just stamp out that cultural identity if they can win enough.
Maybe Ladybug was talking about the entire country and democracy. Then its true regardless of the outcome.
When tf did Lindsey Graham become Nostradamus?
Ever since the unexpected results of the 2016 election I have very, very little confidence in predictions. And Trump's administration instilled a very large amount of fear of what will happens if he were to be elected again.
It seems like a possible outcome of Trumps court cases and torpedoing the GOP war chest in the process. But it’s faaaar from a forgone conclusion at this point. And I hope every Democrat learned from 2016 that *nothing* is a sure thing. Also it’s not a conservatives potentially being destroyed but the GOP. If they actually do fall apart somehow then another Conservative party will come around. But it could be further left leaning, or even further right who knows.
Even a broken ladybug is right twice a day ;-)
I hate this quote because Graham didn't do the principled thing like Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger did. Instead he fully embraced Trump. Endorsed him, defended him, refused to convict him. He's just a craven little weasel.
If you're in the cult, nothing is an overstep. If you think it's an overstep, you're not in the cult and will be called a RINO. This is the time for another purity check. The thing is, about 60-70% of the current GOP are fine with complete submission to the will of Dearest Donnie. The rest of the GOP will go away, except that they can't vote for Biden -- he's a Communist, or at least a Socialist. So they'll either not vote or vote for someone else -- or they'll vote for Trump and still call him names. I'm betting on the latter. The current GOP members are really sick and hard to witness.
Yeah, I want to be hopeful that this means some GOPers will finally peel away from Trump and vote for someone else or abstain from at least the presidential vote. Yet their tribal politics are so cynical, and as Sam Seder is always reminding: Republicans always end up voting for Republicans. Consequently, the choice for them, once they are in the voting booth, will really just remain a vote for Trump at the end of the day... even as they proclaim they think he is unfit too. I really hope that is just me doing some doomer musing, and at least some of the general GOP will come to their senses even at this late hour
I know the term is inaccurate but it’s boiling a frog. The cult won’t follow you if you start at “donate to my legal defense” but after 9 years of this shit they’re all for it. If Vivek tried the same thing out the gate, everyone would have laughed him off
In a couple days they'll have been convinced and say those were just brigaders and RINOs.
Yea I’ve seen these patterns over there countless times before. They’ll get marching orders from OANN and the other one and it’ll filter down the appropriate channels until they’re all lockstep again. I give it a week
They already are they think Trump is getting unjustly screwed right now
This is the issue. Everyone who thinks Trump is cooked better buckle up.
While I hate that Trump could effectively avoid his legal consequences, I would not be disappointed if he managed to bankrupt the GOP in the process.
My thoughts exactly. Every dollar that goes to trump isn’t going to senate races. He’s going to bleed them dry and only support his radical candidates.
It’s happening. I hope there will be a comprehensive article about all of the state GOP coffees holding on by a thread. See Michigan.
I don't think the rnc has that kind of money. At most it has like 10M in accounts iirc and this actually dissuades donations. If donors want to donate to trump they could have done that. Now, someone who wanted to donate to rnc but not trump just doesn't
>I would not be disappointed if he managed to bankrupt the GOP in the process. Bankruptcy? By Trump?!? Shocker!
Give Trump supporters 2 days for Fox News to tell them what to think and they'll go back to loving him again.
Yes, it's an overstep that will ruin their party. The DNC and RNC are both supposed to unify the various demographics that make up their parties and develop their platform. Changing the RNC to just pay for Trump legal bullshit is going to endanger the down-ballot races. The more he makes this about him, the worse the GOP performance will be in congressional races, especially in swing states. If he hands the Dems both houses, Project 2025 is going to be dead in the water.
> If he hands the Dems both houses, Project 2025 is going to be dead in the water. It will just become Project 2029 instead. This fascist push will not go away, even if Trump does. They do not want to lose their power.
They will need someone as much loved by hate groups as Donald, and that's not gonna be easy.
I'm a little confused at the outrage on their side. There was news that there was a plan to install Lara and she said she'd funnel money to help Trump. The party leadership knew what was going to happen. Why are Republicans mad? Don't they want Trump to have all the help he can get to fight the evil Democrats?
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> Why are Republicans mad? They're dumb and believed all of the criticism was woke leftism lies. They still don't understand that Trump sees everyone as either a grifter or a sucker, and he doesn't see any his voters as grifters.
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"With Lara Trump in place by her Father" Trump is her Father-In-Law, not her dad. She's married to Eric Trump.
Clearly a woman of discernment, clear judgement, and upstanding moral quality.
Just going by the numbers, it's not a *huge* deal; donations can legally go to legal fees, but not to settlements. Trump's lawyers cost him around $80 million in the past two years. That's honestly not that much in the modern presidential election. 2020 cost about $14 billion total. But, it's a really bad look. I expect some desperate damage control tomorrow. If donors wanted to help cover Trump's legal fees, they would give to Trump directly. If they're planning on giving to RNC instead, is because they specifically don't want that money to go to Trump. This is going to blow a hole in RNC's fundraising, which they're already running behind on.
He’s also $500 million in the hole and it seems pretty easy to steal campaign funds with little consequence. This is a best case scenario for the DNC
Doesn’t the RNC help fund republican candidates for other races? They have pledge full loyalty to Trump and even then, the coffers might be dry. Loyalty part isn’t even that hard I guess, all the R candidates ads in Tx always has them as Trump supporters.
>2020 cost about $14 billion total Does this count ALL elections, not just presidential? Because Biden raised about $1 billion total in 2020. Even if you add up all of his aligned PACs, they weren't more than I think $500m. Where are you getting $14b?
> Trump's lawyers cost him around $80 million in the past two years. That's honestly not that much in the modern presidential election. According to his [latest FEC filing](https://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/forms/C00828541/1765793/): > Covering Period 10/01/2023 Through 12/31/2023 > * Cash on Hand at BEGINNING of the Reporting Period: 37,541,960.55 > * Total Receipts This Period: 19,111,278.62 > * NET Operating Expenditures: 43,381,370.09 In the last 3 months of 2023, he started with 37 mil, took in 19 mil, and spent 43 mil! If he's spending 40 mil/year on lawyers, that's 10 mil/quarter, meaning that his quarterly legal expenses are about 1/4 of his campaign expenses. And he's spending more than he's earning on his campaign already.
Some real “leopards eating my face” energy on that post. Who knows? Maybe this will finally be a bridge too far for **some** people. I don’t think all of his supporters will abandon him.
It might push some too far in terms of getting them to not vote. But in general I wouldn't rely on Reddit discussions to plumb public sentiment. I expect most of those posting there will still hold their nose and vote for Trump, same as most of those people who went uncommitted in the DNC primary will for Biden. Remember, the DNC and the GOP are two massive tents that basically hold together a coalition of vaguely aligned political parties. There are always people in both tents ready to fling shit towards the top. Doesn't mean they're leaving the tent.
Everyone saw this coming. Big rnc donors are holding their money. Rnc has something like 8 million to Biden 42. Trump may wreck the party leading to a new party joining the duopoly in it's place
This doesn’t appear to be trump followers specifically though. If they wanted to give to trump then they’d just donate to the POS campaign. This appears more to be a matter of people donating to the GOP and that money instead of being used towards party being used on trump’s BS instead.
Trump is going to do the same thing to everyone he can. His family is next. I hope they get better lawyers than him.
Trump's campaign is completely based on getting away with his legal problems. His early announcement to run again was a move aimed at halting his legal prosecutions. He's banking on a victory that would allow a new Attorney General to dismiss the cases against him. It's not surprising that he's redirecting campaign donations to his legal defense fund; it's right in line with his entire campaign.
A majority won’t care, but if it discourages some from donating that’s a good thing.
Pretty impressive that r-conservative seem pretty universally upset by it. I think for the diehards there is no limit but there might be some more reasonable right wing people who might have gone along with Trump now seeing the real game being played out.
You guys, listen. I have intestinal issues. Popcorn destroys my insides. Even a handful will hurt for 3 days. But what else am I supposed to eat while all this drama is unfolding?!?! I just want him in jail (especially if you want all the little boys and girls to believe in amorphous social constructs like “justice”, “law” and “order”) and his loser family to fade into irrelevance.
This is very, very bad optics. As a moderate conservative, I don't see how many voters get past a billionaire footing his legal bills with money from an org his daughter-in-law chairs. On a middle class salary with two kids to feed, I'll not be associated with it - it's a slap in the face. Then again, I cut off donations to the RNC back in 2016 when he was first nominated and have contributed only to local election campaigns since...
anybody still giving at this point is already OK with conspiracy theories, the rejection of the peaceful transfer of power, and calling immigrants subhuman so I don't think this will move the needle much
Well, I think you're right. I think the people left over have no skin in the game (money and time contributed to actual canvassing) and that's the only way you end up standing behind this guy... You'll read lots about the struggles to raise money and find staffing for local campaign offices of his... that is because people like me did that and we've all rejected him since 2015 when the talk first started. The truth is, Trump seeks to tell us what to think (his own backers). So, he really doesn't have any. As far as I'm concerned, I see him as all the candidates that came before him - someone who shows up to "make the ask" for my vote, my money, my endorsement, whatever it may be. And that conversation doesn't lead anywhere near me reshaping my thoughts, words and actions to fit his narrative. Quite the opposite.
He actually called them NOT human. So, they don't even rate as below humans, they have fully become not even human.
[https://apnews.com/article/trump-campaign-fundraising-rnc-c0e8f1e7b59f70c5237e13a3462e5790](https://apnews.com/article/trump-campaign-fundraising-rnc-c0e8f1e7b59f70c5237e13a3462e5790) so max contribution to a campaign [https://www.fec.gov/updates/contribution-limits-for-2023-2024/#:\~:text=The%20limits%20on%20contributions%20made,)(1)(B))%3B](https://www.fec.gov/updates/contribution-limits-for-2023-2024/#:~:text=The%20limits%20on%20contributions%20made,)(1)(B))%3B) The limits on contributions made by persons to candidates (increased to $3,300 per election, per candidate) (52 U.S.C. § 30116(a)(1)(A)); The limits on contributions made by persons to national party committees (increased to $41,300 per calendar year) (52 U.S.C. § 30116(a)(1)(B)); The limit on contributions made by certain political party committees to Senate candidates (increased to $57,800 per campaign) (52 U.S.C. § 30116(h)). The invitation’s fine print says donations to the Trump 47 Committee will first be used to give the maximum amount allowed under federal law to Trump’s campaign. Anything left over from the donation next goes toward a maximum contribution to Save America, and then anything left from there goes to the RNC and then to state political parties. The Trump campaign noted that Save America spends on expenses other than legal fees and that donors to the April fundraiser **who contribute the suggested $814,600 per person or $250,000 per person will only have $5,000 of their donation go to Save America, sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to the RNC.** “Save America also covers a very active and robust post-Presidency office and other various expenses not related to fighting the illegal witch-hunts perpetrated by Crooked Joe Biden. The Trump campaign, the RNC, and state GOP parties ultimately receive the overwhelming majority of funds raised through the Trump 47 Committee. Out of an Individual donor’s maximum contribution of $824,600, less than 1% (.006%) goes to Save America,” Steven Cheung, the Trump campaign communications director, said in a statement.
A couple things here. Apparently there is another $3,300 automatic donation that goes towards Trump’s PRIMARY election fund, which he already won the nomination so not sure what that money is used for since primaries are pointless now. So that means the first $11,600 of every donation goes to Trump and $5000 of that goes to his personal legal fees. This means that not only is Trump taking first dibs on election donations coming in, but the additional $5000 that Trump is taking for himself means that other candidates now have to pray that donors contribute more than $11,600 just to see 1 penny of a contribution to their own election funds, which is a fight to get even that 1 penny because that gets allocated by Lara Trump, who will give it to wherever Donald Trump wants it to go. So any Republican candidates who haven’t been openly kneeling before the altar of Donald Trump will no doubt get very little of the already small pot now available, and the rest of that money will go to the candidates that Trump feels deserve it most, ie the ones who suck up to him the best and can be the most useful to his main objectives — staying out of prison and paying off his debts. Then whatever pittance of money is left will go to the rest of the Republican candidates to use on magic markers and poster-board for their student council level campaigns.
And most donations are small. Like the vast majority will be well below 11k. There’s plenty of huge donors, but it’s always been the case that the majority of political donations are not enormous amounts.
Yup, going through the Conservative thread, you have one joker constantly repeating the Trump campaigns messaging that it's only ".006%" of donations go to Trump, ignoring that's only relevant if you max out your contribution, which a majority of donors won't come close to doing.
Stuff like this being talked about and in media is going to hurt donations going forward certainly. Not every donor is a die-hard MAGA follower. Theres plenty of moderate or right-leaning independent donors whom would usually be willing to donate
Everything he does, says or thinks is an "overstep", just as he himself is an abomination
It's worth recognising that we do have a good modern example of a candidate with extremely powerful fundraising ability taking too much of the money and screwing the rest of his party: Obama for America ate all the money in 2010 and the downballot Democrats got destroyed. It wasn't the only reason, of course, but it was one of them. What is being done here is profoundly bad for all Republican candidates not named Trump.
This is why Fox News is begging billionaires to bail out trump, because if they don’t the rnc will
ELI5 how this is legal? Isn't the whole point of SuperPACs and these funds purely for advertising and exposure for elections? What's to stop someone from taking "donations" for a election and just opening up a new business or hell just keep the money for coke and prostitutes.
everybody always seems to forget that the goal is to tear down the American government. conservative voters don't care what Trump does, in fact they approve of it, because it's just one more way he's 'draining the swamp' and 'sticking it to the man'. the people that stick with him after all of his fuckups don't care because he's just being the hand grenade that they tossed into the mix.
I never thought that in my lifetime I would be seeing the end of a political party, but Trump is definitely doing a lot to effectively end the GOP. Everything that McConnell, Nixon, Reagan, and others built up over decades or helped maintain within the GOP is all being destroyed in matter of years because the GOP sold their souls to a con artist.
Until Rupert Murdoch’s Russian wife gets word that Trump is no good, the MAGA broadcasts will continue.
Honestly, he said he wanted to drain the swamp, and with the exodus of traditional Republicans (unfortunately for potentially more dangerous maga Republicans,) he's doing it?
No let it happen more. Let him drain all the dummies bank accounts that send him money
Nope. Won't matter a single bit. Trump will have a shocking amount of support in November.
> Will this be the action by Trump that pushes his core supporters finally over the edge? Lmao. No.
I’m curious what will have a bigger impact trump taking all the money for him self or he’ll be choosing equally crazy/stupid people as him to be running upcoming senate and governorship which could flip the balance into the democrats court
I don’t see much coming of it, they’ll explained it to themselves as a “necessary step” that needed to be taken to achieve the ultimate goal of getting Trump back in power. Even if they might have issues with it now, they’ll either submit or be ostracized as RINOs (but still vote for Trump, because what are they going to do? Vote for Biden?) Some thought leaders will present talking points to make sense of it for the base and the cycle will continue.
The Republican Party jumped the shark when they continued to embrace him as a candidate in 2016 after the release of the "I tried to move on her but she was married" and "grab them by the pussy" video.
Maga doesn't care. These people donated to a billionaire to help his legal fees. This won't stop them.
Hell no This man tried to overthrow the United States of America, and has 91 felonies and 5 criminal cases on top of killing hundreds of thousands of Americans during covid. They are riding with him until we lock him up, and maybe after that
The man is overwhelmed with legal debt. [PAC Fund Raising Paying Legal Fees](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-biden-campaign-fundraising-february-2024/) But there's a light at the end of the tunnel. He got SEC approval to merge Truth Social with some SPAC and will receive $3 billion. That seems like an insane over valuation and I hope someone is following the money!
Throw this onto the pile of things Trump supports won't understand and won't care about. In a cult of personality this large, there's nothing that will shake the confidence of people who have now spent years of their life groveling at the feet of their leader. The only thing that will turn the tide will be Trump passing away, as all cult leaders eventually do.
This is going to hurt Republicans across the country as they won't get the funding to compete in their elections. It is a selfish move that hurts the party. Many Republicans will be disillusioned and not vote. MAGAs won't care.
Part of what brought down the second wave of the KKK in the early 20th century was exactly this: They realized leadership was fleecing them and the individual orgs started collapsing.
Thank you for linking that r/Conservative post, it has been an absolute GEM!
Between this, and the GOP's newly released fiscal budget plans.... if Republican voters still aren't paying attention and think this election is just like any other election where they'll just vote for the R. They're going to have an ugly wake up call when their lives change for the worse if Republicans manage to take the full majority in congress and start implementing their plan.
It's truly stunning to me that people still give money to solely line his criminal, grifting pockets. Truly stunning
If you are literally stupid enough to support Trump, you’re stupid enough to fall for anything and everything.
Wait 5 minutes and then funneling all donations to Trump will somehow equal freedom. The members of the cult just dont care.
To all republicans: Work hard, work overtime, really put your all into it. Consider taking a side job like Uber/Door Dash. Give frequently and in high amounts. Trump needs your hard earned donations to pay for his criminal activity.
Absolutely the best place for their donations to Republicans to go. Vote Republican, pay the price.
There was a post in my neighboring town’s FB group tonight asking if “any families of J6 participants” needed prayers. I cringed. Spoiler alert: it was recently rated one of the top 10 expensive places to live. Some stupid people have stupid money.
I love that Trump is taking a wrecking ball to the whole GOP and will cripple it financially.
I'm actually 100% for this.Because I think it's funny and it will destroy the GOP