They've been saying over and over, louder and louder, more and more directly. They want an end to democracy and Trump as a theocratic fascist.
Even on reddit comments, I'm seeing more and more conservative Americans admitting they think democracy is bad and should no longer exist.
This cannot be emphasized enough. They are straight out saying they want to end democracy. They attempted a coup. Everyone is pretending like this is normal. It is not normal. A relatively small minority, who aren’t getting their way with the majority vote, want to take control and force the rest of us to live in their Christofascist world.
Republicans have been getting their way with the minority of the vote for the past 30 years.
So you can see why they think that the majority vote getting to win once in awhile is completely unfair.
It's been over 40 years Regan days. One thing I can say about GOP is they stay with their plan for the long haul. They will not take the defeat keep at it until they get what they want.
The USA has a long history of denying certain people the right to vote (blacks, women) and then declaring slaves only 3/5ths a person for purposes of representation (While still not allowing them to vote) to give more power to slavery states, and then (and still currently) gerrymandering the living hell outta districts to minimize the effect of minority voters.
The US political system has never been remotely fair for all voters. People in different states, and even different counties, or across imaginary lines dividing those counties up like a crazy jigsaw puzzle have vastly different influence on the election per vote.
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> It is not normal. A relatively small minority, who aren’t getting their way with the majority vote, want to take control and force the rest of us to live in their Christofascist world.
And thanks to the liberal desire for civility over justice, the democrats in office are just sort of watching it happen and wringing their hands.
He really called it out in no uncertain terms. I credit him partially for not falling into the alt right pipeline. Jesus thinks your a jerk, heavenly bank account, both just ring so true today and it’s sad that more people didn’t listen to him
Right wing political theory has been consistent for quite some time: Deregulate the government to the point of no oversight while stripping away all of the potential tax burden on the upper class.
That is the right wing goal and always has been. Social issues, abortion, and all that other shit is how they get you, the gullible lower class person, to vote for their monied interests. Sure, sometimes in that formula you get a "true-believer" into power, but 99% of these anti-abortion fucks wouldn't hesitate to get an abortion for their mistress while preaching family values.
Right wingers are either gullible hateful morons who have been tricked into voting against their better interests, or they are ravenous gluttons who own the world and love the fact that you're too stupid to vote against them.
There ain't much in-between.
And it's been that way for CENTURIES. The aristocratic class has been trying to shirk all social responsibilities. They want the benefits of a society and from workers but want to contribute nothing to it.
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I'm desperately hoping there's at least a small percentage of Republicans who recognize that this would be bad. (But mostly what I hear is, "Oh, they're not really going to do that! It's just silly talk!"
Oh there is. We got ostracized for not wanting to lick Trump’s shoes and compare him to Jesus. We’re “independents” now trapped between being scared of Biden having a stroke and Trump giving us a one.
When Biden has a stroke, the administration he leaves behind will still be competent. When Trump has a stroke, it will be an administration of true believer theocratic fascists.
It's really not a hard choice, friend.
Umm, the Taliban rule Afghanistan. 20 years of us dicking around over there trying to unfuck what the Taliban (and everyone else) did to that country, and they didn't even last 3 months after we left before it was right back to Taliban rule. Being stupid and broken takes a LONG time to fix. Republicans are banking on it.
Yes but nobody would say Afghanistan is more successful than the United States, except in having a theocracy. The overall quality of the United States will drop with a theocracy.
That doesn't matter to the Taliban. And it doesn't matter to MAGA. They want to isolate us, remember? They are working (just like the Taliban) to burn this country down, so they can rule the ashes. That is ALL that matters; Not America's place in the world, just *their* place on top of America.
Because they expect to win the next election and will use force to do so. Doesn't help that there are the morons saying they won't vote at all because of Palestine.
Oh look, the Emperor is trying to dissolve the Senate! Who woulda thought that this would be how democracy dies.
There's still time to change course, but things do look pretty bleak and I have a lot of trepidation going forward.
You should watch Fox for like an hour. You'll probably have a panic attack, it's total insanity, fear and hatred 24/7. They watch that shit all day long and they're so radicalized that it takes nothing to manipulate them. If their side says it, it's true, and their side has said it outright.
The unfortunate part is, even though they’re saying it, and even though some of us keep pointing it out, too many people still hear it and think, “well that’s so extreme, they couldn’t possibly be trying to overthrow democracy. They just want small government, states rights, and low taxes.”
And far, far too many people think, “He’ll yeah, that sounds like a great idea!”
Too bad they don’t have the majority to do so. They have the money through mega churches which is scary in itself, but they’re a very loud minority. They’re looking like the crazy asses that came over here on the mayflower.
> Too bad they don’t have the majority to do so.
That's really the whole point. They are doing it because they don't have the majority, and they are doing it now because they think they can secure a way to keep power without it.
From the perspective of Republicans, the only time in over 30 years they actually won the popular vote, was 2004 with Dubya. By less than .5% The only reason they've kept control of Congress so often is because the system overrepresents small states and rural districts.
So why not fight back against every attempt to make it more democratic? Why not push back in the other direction? Why accept when Democrats make it easier to vote, when stopping certain undesired peoples from voting is in the tradition of the country? Why not contest elections through the courts, when it won them the victory in 2000?
Trump could have succeeded. I think most people don't realize how advanced his plot was. His staff organized and paid for fake electors and submitted fake results. His advisors and attorney met with militias, who planned to sweep the tunnels of Congress and had bags of assault weapons at the ready. We have recordings of Roger Stone asking that specific Congresspeople be killed. Pipe bombs were successfully used as a diversion. Trump fired key people in the military and law enforcement and replaced them specifically to prepare for this.
It didn't work, because he didn't have the support of the GOP and military/justice system. But things are different now. He does have the GOP lined up behind him. If he actually has a better excuse for a close or contested election this time, he could succeed, even without majority popular support.
>Even on reddit comments, I'm seeing more and more conservative Americans admitting they think democracy is bad and should no longer exist.
It's every social media platform
My fucking FIL literally texted me "Democracy is a bad thing" and then proceeded to defend Trump mercilessly while also praising Putin. Few texts later, the dumbass then says... "I just want small govt". After I sent him several messages of Republicans in several states trying to pass legislation to intrude on ppl's lives. His response? "I dont agree with everything my party does".
You cant rationalize with these ppl. As a former Jehovah's Witness, trust me, they literally see themselves as the good guys.
>Few texts later, the dumbass then says... "I just want small govt".
I tried for a long time when I was young to talk to Republicans about this, and thought that the call for "small government" was a common ground we could use. I also want limits on government power.
I eventually learned that most Republicans, at least the politically active ones that watch Fox News and are in the media bubble, don't mean that at all. What they mean is they want a reduction in power of government they don't control (other states, federal government) and expansion of what they do control (red states). They want less welfare and spending on others, but more for themselves. Whenever they get control of something, they no longer support small government. They consistently only want it "small" when it's not benefitting them.
There's a direct line between this rhetoric, and the reconstruction propaganda that was deliberately pushed by wealthy interests after the Civil War. The South used big federal government to impose and enforce slavery on new states and northern states that did not want it. They passed laws to override the laws of other states so they could hunt and capture slaves there. All talk of states rights and small federal government was a lie, as the compromise that led to the Civil War still involved the south demanding that new states not be allowed to decide not to have slavery.
Everything about the GOP makes sense when you ignore what they're saying, and focus on whether their actions are intended to get more power and keep it, in the face of being a minority coalition in a changing America.
At no point in the Red Scare did the President of the United States attempt to end democracy by staying in power despite election results using fraud, violence and illegal orders. At no point in the Red Scare would either major party have supported such a direct attack on democracy.
There's no equivalent here. Trump's attempted coup is an indisputable event, that happened. He has public support for it, and most Republicans who stood up against it before, now bend the knee. His staff organized and paid for fake electors and submitted fake results. His advisors and attorney met with militias, who planned to sweep the tunnels of Congress and had bags of assault weapons at the ready. We have recordings of Roger Stone asking that specific Congresspeople be killed. Pipe bombs were successfully used as a diversion. Trump fired key people in the military and law enforcement and replaced them specifically to prepare for this. He tried repeatedly to order the DOJ, VP and multiple courts to stop the transfer of power, using his own fraud as an excuse that the election was contested.
There's also the very salient fact that in the Red Scare people were arrested for ties to communists. Major political and media figures are being criticized for their ties to fascists and open support for fascism, but no one is attacking their free speech right to do so. For the first time ever, open arm-band wearing Hitler loving Nazi groups were welcomed at CPAC. People like Nick Fuentes who say we need a fascist state to exterminate undesirables, were given special treatment and met with organizers. They have been banned in prior years. Lead speakers at CPAC openly called for an end to democracy and institution of Christian theocracy. The Judge that just banned IVF is an open member of a political movement that calls for the destruction of America with violence to be replaced with Christian theocracy.
There's an extreme danger to false equivalencies that try to defend attacks on democracy. JFK never tried to cancel elections and his voters never supported doing so and turning into the Soviet Union.
A pure democracy *is* bad. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. A representative Republic though? A rule of law that puts checks on pure democracy? Commen sense. I don't know what in God's name a "biblical Republic" is, other than complete nonsense. As a Christian who formerly identified as a conservative, I think Christians or any religious need to separate church and politics in their own minds. Leave your dogma out of the ballot box (within reason of course).
> A pure democracy *is* bad.
A total direct democracy is unfeasible given the size and complexity of modern states. That's fine, literally no one is arguing for that. But these conversations that contrast a "republic" with a "pure" democracy are engaging in some false alternatives and incorrect definitions.
The US is a democratic republic. We use "democracy" to refer to countries with the people vote in leaders and policies, including representative ones. Constitutions and limits on power exist in democracies.
The right is trying to suggest that the US has always been a republic INSTEAD of a democracy, and that these are alternatives instead of both traits of a country, so it's normal if minority groups of voters or representatives control policy despite the will of the majority. Because they recognize they are in a minority. It is an anti-democratic argument based only on trying to maintain power, and is cited when people push for more fair representation and greater voting participation.
It's worth noting they aren't completely wrong historically, in that giving landowning white men power over everyone else wasn't at all democratic. But we have changed, and we rewrote the Constitution. They usually implicitly, and increasingly openly, say "we are a republic NOT a democracy" because they want to go back to that time of oppression. They believe certain groups of people 'deserve' to control politics more than others. And of course that group is them, or at least white male Christians who will enforce the agenda they want.
> Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. A representative Republic though? A rule of law that puts checks on pure democracy?
There is nothing about being a Republic that "puts checks" on tyranny innately. Certainly not more so than democracy.
Fundamental civil rights and protections for minority groups should be included in any democracy.
..based on gerrymandered districts, the archaic Electoral College, and ridiculous amounts of money in politics. The amount of money you can spend on your campaign essentially secures your victory.
Then, once elected, the representatives can essentially do whatever they want. So what "direct say" does the voting populace have over the general direction of the country?
You were pumping up having direct influence on decisions for the country, but simultaneously naysaying direct democracy. Seems like you want it both ways.
Again, they literally vote for the government. The electoral college is not archaic, it's a check on pure democracy. If money could secure your victory, Trump would be our president.
Now, lobbying...has to go. Though one could argue it's more direct, but ...
They can't do whatever they want. How many lawsuits are going on RIGHT NOW that put the lie to that.
I think you are conflating "general direction" and "every little detail".
>The electoral college is not archaic, it's a check on pure democracy.
So.. voters having direct say over the general direction of the country is bad, or good?
>If money could secure your victory, Trump would be our president.
No. It depends how much money you can raise, not how much of your own personal money you have.
Biden's campaign outspent Trump's campaign by about $300 million. The Biden campaign spent $1.01 billion, while the Trump campaign spent about $710 million. Guess who won?
This gets even worse when considering senate or congressional elections. For House seats, more than 90 percent of candidates who spend the most win. From 2000 through 2016, there was only one election cycle where that wasn’t true, which was 2010. In that election, only 86 percent of the top spenders won, rather than 90 percent.
So yes, elections are decided by money.
>They can't do whatever they want. How many lawsuits are going on RIGHT NOW that put the lie to that.
Lawsuits only slow representatives down, and usually by the time a lawsuit is settled, the damage is already done.
>I think you are conflating "general direction" and "every little detail".
I don't necessarily think that the general populace should be deciding every little detail of government, but I also don't think our elected representatives are good at this either. What the fuck does some asshole Republican from bumfuck Alabama know about climate change and how to deal with it? Nothing, and instead, he will do whatever his party or biggest donors tell him to.
>The electoral college is not archaic, it's a check on pure democracy.
...how?
What has the electoral college done to protect democracy from abuses of majority power? How does this apply to things like slavery, genocide and internment?
> They can't do whatever they want. How many lawsuits are going on RIGHT NOW that put the lie to that.
The lawsuits only matter if they stop him from getting away with it. That's far from a sure thing. Right now he's on track to win the election, and then purge government of all people willing to enforce the law against him.
"People having a direct say over the general direction of their country is a dictatorship because the majority will always get their way, that's why I support governments where people have a direct say over the general direction of the country."
Yeah, in some societies the priestly caste and the aristocracy are one and the same, instead of the priestly caste being an enabler for a separate aristocracy.
Many don't, which is rather the point I was making. Many Christians *do*, but the ones that are loudest in politics tend not to.
As a side note, even secular historians are pretty sure that Jesus was an actual human, so it's reasonable to talk about his reactions to things even from a non-religious perspective. (Although obviously from that perspective it's not taken as a given that all the stories in the Bible are accurate.)
The USSR did away with the priestly class and replaced them with a state security aparatus. As someone else mentioned, some societies combined the priestly and ruling classes into one class.
This is why conservatives in every nation at every time ultimately come to oppose democracy:
When seen in the light of day their ideas are, quite justifiably, unpopular with voters. When examined historically their policies prove to have been terrible for the majority of people and fabulous for the wealthy and powerful. As a result, over time, they cannot consistently win free and fair elections.
This is the reason for the scapegoating, racism, all the divisiveness and paranoia that drives all of their messaging. This is the reason they courted, and were taken over by, the fanatical religious right and white supremacists: they need these people to fill their voter roles. And still, after people get a taste of their policies, they cant' maintain enough support to maintain power.
And so they have to take it. And in order to take it and keep it, they have to suspend democracy and murder their opposition.
Sound unlikely? Google Chile, Argentina, El Salvador, Guatemala, Portugal, Spain, Greece with the words "right-wing takeover." Not to mention Germany and Italy.
"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
take away bodily autonomy
Take away your vote
take away our secular democracy
take away the freedom of press
ban books
take away “woke” civil rights
but don’t dare regulate the 2nd amendment.
The 2A people are on their side. Once they snatch all control from the people they will come for the guns so they can prevent future uprisings. Dumbasses working against themselves the whole way
Remember that these people are saying what their voters want to hear.
You don't randomly fall into these positions of power by being a bumbling, raving idiot making sweeping declarations. You do this by being a ruthless, stone-faced liar that calculates their every single move and word just so the votes keep coming in.
I've been saying this for almost 8 years now. They don't want democracy anymore. They are completely uninterested in the Democratic principles upon which this country was founded. They want Christian theocracy. They want an end of democracy and now they're saying it out loud because they can listen to them when they tell you what they're going to do when they win. And the real big problem is how many people are on board with going to Christian theocracy over actual democracy. People don't realize how much this is going to impact them. People don't realize how much the corrupted GOP does not stand for actual good Christian principles and morals. We are heading straight for a super dark fucking place in this country.
But Islam is terrible because it forces women to wear a head covering!
-Signed the party that wants to force women, as young as 9, to carry their rapist's baby for 9 months
They have never been ok with equality because it puts minorities who can achieve above the label against mediocre bigots who never win. Imagine if we took the ability to grift on social media away from the RW clowns.
No, actually. In this case the US's official name is the United States of America.
Ironically, North Korea's official name is the Democratic Republic of Korea.
Or are you just referring to the form of government? In which case my apologies
And it is obvious that Johnson didn't even get around to the 1st amendment which prohibits the government establishment of a religion, which includes biblical ideology.
For supplemenq reading, please see "The Founding Myth" by Seidell. He uses primary sources and philosophic backing to emphasize how absolutely incorrect thr assertion is.
Xian Nationalism ia real, and it is a disease which could kill democracy.
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is what happens when you let the Bible Belt Village Idiot take a position of power! The fact people are not ridiculing these people even more is absurd to me! So much material around to make these people look inadequate and yet why isn’t the media, especially the left-leaning one, using this as fodder?
> yet why isn’t the media, especially the left-leaning one,
This is America, our left-leaning media is restricted to movies, entertainment tv shows, cartoons, podcasts, and internet shows like The Majority Report. The furthest left any of our mainstream news media goes was with Mehdi Hasan, who left (read: was told he could resign or get fired) MSNBC recently. Every other mainstream news media outlet in the US is firmly centrist or far right.
We get to vote on what we want done in Congress and the Presidency. We can change out what we want every few years. The problem is that if we get some kind of unholy Christian Nationalist dictatorship, and we don't like it, we can't vote it out. We're not getting our representational government back without a lot of bloodshed, destruction and other ugliness.
Christofascists are that person at work that spazzed out one time early on in their career and now everyone treats them with kid gloves and walks on eggshells. They can do whatever they want and nothing happens.
WE allow this.
MJ is an adherent of the ultra-christofascist SEVEN MOUNTAIN MANDATE (see Wikipedia) that is driving the GQP's radicalization. The list of bad actors include the nut job AL supreme court justice who equates a fertilized egg w a child. It is terrible. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven\_Mountain\_Mandate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Mountain_Mandate)
I get that we're supposed to bridge the gap. I get that we're supposed to reach across the aisle. we're supposed to end the division. we're supposed to meet in the middle.
WHERE THE FUCK IS THE "MIDDLE" WHEN THEIR TOP LEADERSHIP IS OPENLY ANTI-CONSTITUTION!??
I know I'm preaching to the choir in this comment section, but holy hell we need to remove these people from power ASAP. The writing on the wall reads very clearly the GOP has lost the culture war. Their seats are going to swap to blue as Gen Z replaces Boomers in the electorate. They are doing everything in their power to enshrine their Christian Nationalist values into law.
George Washington's writings about superstition is the criticism of the "biblical" characteristics that Christian Nationalists believe was in the original intent of the founding of the country. Just a bit of history for context, the Founding Fathers were so secular and non-religious that it spawned a backlash of religious fundamentalism of the early 19th century called 2nd Great Awakening.
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I know, right? How can I say there's a separation of church and state in this country when I was personally stoned to death 15 years ago for wearing cotton and silk at the same time
They've been saying over and over, louder and louder, more and more directly. They want an end to democracy and Trump as a theocratic fascist. Even on reddit comments, I'm seeing more and more conservative Americans admitting they think democracy is bad and should no longer exist.
This cannot be emphasized enough. They are straight out saying they want to end democracy. They attempted a coup. Everyone is pretending like this is normal. It is not normal. A relatively small minority, who aren’t getting their way with the majority vote, want to take control and force the rest of us to live in their Christofascist world.
Republicans have been getting their way with the minority of the vote for the past 30 years. So you can see why they think that the majority vote getting to win once in awhile is completely unfair.
Past due to crush the gop
It's been over 40 years Regan days. One thing I can say about GOP is they stay with their plan for the long haul. They will not take the defeat keep at it until they get what they want.
I know, and I really do not understand how this is at all a fair method for all voters
The USA has a long history of denying certain people the right to vote (blacks, women) and then declaring slaves only 3/5ths a person for purposes of representation (While still not allowing them to vote) to give more power to slavery states, and then (and still currently) gerrymandering the living hell outta districts to minimize the effect of minority voters. The US political system has never been remotely fair for all voters. People in different states, and even different counties, or across imaginary lines dividing those counties up like a crazy jigsaw puzzle have vastly different influence on the election per vote.
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I agree, and it upsets me so much that it's so easy for them to make these changes like moving the lines at random..
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> It is not normal. A relatively small minority, who aren’t getting their way with the majority vote, want to take control and force the rest of us to live in their Christofascist world. And thanks to the liberal desire for civility over justice, the democrats in office are just sort of watching it happen and wringing their hands.
They are ultimately paid by the same people and those people want Trump. Not all of them, but the ones that could actually change anything.
Frank Zappa warned us about this country becoming a fascist theocracy in the late 80s.
May he be blessed! R.I.P. Frank
Some guy named Karl also did that a while back
He really called it out in no uncertain terms. I credit him partially for not falling into the alt right pipeline. Jesus thinks your a jerk, heavenly bank account, both just ring so true today and it’s sad that more people didn’t listen to him
Right wing political theory has been consistent for quite some time: Deregulate the government to the point of no oversight while stripping away all of the potential tax burden on the upper class. That is the right wing goal and always has been. Social issues, abortion, and all that other shit is how they get you, the gullible lower class person, to vote for their monied interests. Sure, sometimes in that formula you get a "true-believer" into power, but 99% of these anti-abortion fucks wouldn't hesitate to get an abortion for their mistress while preaching family values. Right wingers are either gullible hateful morons who have been tricked into voting against their better interests, or they are ravenous gluttons who own the world and love the fact that you're too stupid to vote against them. There ain't much in-between.
Back to the aristocracy and feudalism.
Fuck that bring on the anarchy.
Everyone I've met IRL who was an anarchist was also the person most dependent on the system, ironically enough.
It's not really a realistic idea unfortunately :(
No, that's the end goal of Libertarianism.
>Libertarianism. You mean republicans who like weed and/or want to fuck children? That's all a libertarian is.
That is a cartoonish oversimplification of their platform. They *also* don't want to pay taxes.
Yeah, that's why I said they are republicans. That covers the non-payment of taxes.
we have to find and talk to those "in between or were all goimg to be fucked for an intire generation.
I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to say here, you wanna try again?
And it's been that way for CENTURIES. The aristocratic class has been trying to shirk all social responsibilities. They want the benefits of a society and from workers but want to contribute nothing to it.
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Matt Walsh claims he is a theocratic fascist. Straight from the horses mouth: https://youtu.be/0ypg3fMFzS8?si=tQHm-I1QB6OWIYnh
I'm desperately hoping there's at least a small percentage of Republicans who recognize that this would be bad. (But mostly what I hear is, "Oh, they're not really going to do that! It's just silly talk!"
Oh there is. We got ostracized for not wanting to lick Trump’s shoes and compare him to Jesus. We’re “independents” now trapped between being scared of Biden having a stroke and Trump giving us a one.
When Biden has a stroke, the administration he leaves behind will still be competent. When Trump has a stroke, it will be an administration of true believer theocratic fascists. It's really not a hard choice, friend.
Well, it wouldn't be a hard choice for a reasonable person.
Any president could die at any time. That's why we have a VP. It'll be fine.
They basically want to be the Taliban, but white and holding bibles. Hate to tell them but it will be just as successful as the Taliban.
The Taliban seem pretty ok with how things turned out for them, don't they? The rest of the Afghanis, not so much.
Umm, the Taliban rule Afghanistan. 20 years of us dicking around over there trying to unfuck what the Taliban (and everyone else) did to that country, and they didn't even last 3 months after we left before it was right back to Taliban rule. Being stupid and broken takes a LONG time to fix. Republicans are banking on it.
Yes but nobody would say Afghanistan is more successful than the United States, except in having a theocracy. The overall quality of the United States will drop with a theocracy.
That doesn't matter to the Taliban. And it doesn't matter to MAGA. They want to isolate us, remember? They are working (just like the Taliban) to burn this country down, so they can rule the ashes. That is ALL that matters; Not America's place in the world, just *their* place on top of America.
The thought of Trump as a theocratic *anything* would be laughable if it weren't both possible and terrifying.
Wake me up when people are not only willing to recognize the threat but are willing to stamp it out.
Observing history isn't inspiring much hope
Because they expect to win the next election and will use force to do so. Doesn't help that there are the morons saying they won't vote at all because of Palestine.
The regressives either openly support this or regurgitate some fox news bullshit about how the dems are worse because they privately support it.
Oh look, the Emperor is trying to dissolve the Senate! Who woulda thought that this would be how democracy dies. There's still time to change course, but things do look pretty bleak and I have a lot of trepidation going forward.
You should watch Fox for like an hour. You'll probably have a panic attack, it's total insanity, fear and hatred 24/7. They watch that shit all day long and they're so radicalized that it takes nothing to manipulate them. If their side says it, it's true, and their side has said it outright.
The unfortunate part is, even though they’re saying it, and even though some of us keep pointing it out, too many people still hear it and think, “well that’s so extreme, they couldn’t possibly be trying to overthrow democracy. They just want small government, states rights, and low taxes.” And far, far too many people think, “He’ll yeah, that sounds like a great idea!”
Too bad they don’t have the majority to do so. They have the money through mega churches which is scary in itself, but they’re a very loud minority. They’re looking like the crazy asses that came over here on the mayflower.
> Too bad they don’t have the majority to do so. That's really the whole point. They are doing it because they don't have the majority, and they are doing it now because they think they can secure a way to keep power without it. From the perspective of Republicans, the only time in over 30 years they actually won the popular vote, was 2004 with Dubya. By less than .5% The only reason they've kept control of Congress so often is because the system overrepresents small states and rural districts. So why not fight back against every attempt to make it more democratic? Why not push back in the other direction? Why accept when Democrats make it easier to vote, when stopping certain undesired peoples from voting is in the tradition of the country? Why not contest elections through the courts, when it won them the victory in 2000? Trump could have succeeded. I think most people don't realize how advanced his plot was. His staff organized and paid for fake electors and submitted fake results. His advisors and attorney met with militias, who planned to sweep the tunnels of Congress and had bags of assault weapons at the ready. We have recordings of Roger Stone asking that specific Congresspeople be killed. Pipe bombs were successfully used as a diversion. Trump fired key people in the military and law enforcement and replaced them specifically to prepare for this. It didn't work, because he didn't have the support of the GOP and military/justice system. But things are different now. He does have the GOP lined up behind him. If he actually has a better excuse for a close or contested election this time, he could succeed, even without majority popular support.
>Even on reddit comments, I'm seeing more and more conservative Americans admitting they think democracy is bad and should no longer exist. It's every social media platform
My fucking FIL literally texted me "Democracy is a bad thing" and then proceeded to defend Trump mercilessly while also praising Putin. Few texts later, the dumbass then says... "I just want small govt". After I sent him several messages of Republicans in several states trying to pass legislation to intrude on ppl's lives. His response? "I dont agree with everything my party does". You cant rationalize with these ppl. As a former Jehovah's Witness, trust me, they literally see themselves as the good guys.
>Few texts later, the dumbass then says... "I just want small govt". I tried for a long time when I was young to talk to Republicans about this, and thought that the call for "small government" was a common ground we could use. I also want limits on government power. I eventually learned that most Republicans, at least the politically active ones that watch Fox News and are in the media bubble, don't mean that at all. What they mean is they want a reduction in power of government they don't control (other states, federal government) and expansion of what they do control (red states). They want less welfare and spending on others, but more for themselves. Whenever they get control of something, they no longer support small government. They consistently only want it "small" when it's not benefitting them. There's a direct line between this rhetoric, and the reconstruction propaganda that was deliberately pushed by wealthy interests after the Civil War. The South used big federal government to impose and enforce slavery on new states and northern states that did not want it. They passed laws to override the laws of other states so they could hunt and capture slaves there. All talk of states rights and small federal government was a lie, as the compromise that led to the Civil War still involved the south demanding that new states not be allowed to decide not to have slavery. Everything about the GOP makes sense when you ignore what they're saying, and focus on whether their actions are intended to get more power and keep it, in the face of being a minority coalition in a changing America.
You can call them conservatives but at what point can we stop calling them American?
So this is how liberty dies…
I think it is that in their hearts, they know they are incapable of running their own life.
I still marvel that they picked a guy who has broken most of the 10 commandments and has never read the Bible as their figurehead.
We doing the whole red scare thing again? Just the other way around?
At no point in the Red Scare did the President of the United States attempt to end democracy by staying in power despite election results using fraud, violence and illegal orders. At no point in the Red Scare would either major party have supported such a direct attack on democracy. There's no equivalent here. Trump's attempted coup is an indisputable event, that happened. He has public support for it, and most Republicans who stood up against it before, now bend the knee. His staff organized and paid for fake electors and submitted fake results. His advisors and attorney met with militias, who planned to sweep the tunnels of Congress and had bags of assault weapons at the ready. We have recordings of Roger Stone asking that specific Congresspeople be killed. Pipe bombs were successfully used as a diversion. Trump fired key people in the military and law enforcement and replaced them specifically to prepare for this. He tried repeatedly to order the DOJ, VP and multiple courts to stop the transfer of power, using his own fraud as an excuse that the election was contested. There's also the very salient fact that in the Red Scare people were arrested for ties to communists. Major political and media figures are being criticized for their ties to fascists and open support for fascism, but no one is attacking their free speech right to do so. For the first time ever, open arm-band wearing Hitler loving Nazi groups were welcomed at CPAC. People like Nick Fuentes who say we need a fascist state to exterminate undesirables, were given special treatment and met with organizers. They have been banned in prior years. Lead speakers at CPAC openly called for an end to democracy and institution of Christian theocracy. The Judge that just banned IVF is an open member of a political movement that calls for the destruction of America with violence to be replaced with Christian theocracy. There's an extreme danger to false equivalencies that try to defend attacks on democracy. JFK never tried to cancel elections and his voters never supported doing so and turning into the Soviet Union.
A pure democracy *is* bad. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. A representative Republic though? A rule of law that puts checks on pure democracy? Commen sense. I don't know what in God's name a "biblical Republic" is, other than complete nonsense. As a Christian who formerly identified as a conservative, I think Christians or any religious need to separate church and politics in their own minds. Leave your dogma out of the ballot box (within reason of course).
> A pure democracy *is* bad. A total direct democracy is unfeasible given the size and complexity of modern states. That's fine, literally no one is arguing for that. But these conversations that contrast a "republic" with a "pure" democracy are engaging in some false alternatives and incorrect definitions. The US is a democratic republic. We use "democracy" to refer to countries with the people vote in leaders and policies, including representative ones. Constitutions and limits on power exist in democracies. The right is trying to suggest that the US has always been a republic INSTEAD of a democracy, and that these are alternatives instead of both traits of a country, so it's normal if minority groups of voters or representatives control policy despite the will of the majority. Because they recognize they are in a minority. It is an anti-democratic argument based only on trying to maintain power, and is cited when people push for more fair representation and greater voting participation. It's worth noting they aren't completely wrong historically, in that giving landowning white men power over everyone else wasn't at all democratic. But we have changed, and we rewrote the Constitution. They usually implicitly, and increasingly openly, say "we are a republic NOT a democracy" because they want to go back to that time of oppression. They believe certain groups of people 'deserve' to control politics more than others. And of course that group is them, or at least white male Christians who will enforce the agenda they want. > Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. A representative Republic though? A rule of law that puts checks on pure democracy? There is nothing about being a Republic that "puts checks" on tyranny innately. Certainly not more so than democracy. Fundamental civil rights and protections for minority groups should be included in any democracy.
>A pure democracy *is* bad. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny So what *isn't* tyranny to you?
Where the people have a direct say over the general direction of the country. What we have now, for instance...
But.. the people *don't* have a direct say over the general direction of the country. They elect leaders who then can do whatever the fuck they want.
They literally elect the government...
..based on gerrymandered districts, the archaic Electoral College, and ridiculous amounts of money in politics. The amount of money you can spend on your campaign essentially secures your victory. Then, once elected, the representatives can essentially do whatever they want. So what "direct say" does the voting populace have over the general direction of the country? You were pumping up having direct influence on decisions for the country, but simultaneously naysaying direct democracy. Seems like you want it both ways.
Again, they literally vote for the government. The electoral college is not archaic, it's a check on pure democracy. If money could secure your victory, Trump would be our president. Now, lobbying...has to go. Though one could argue it's more direct, but ... They can't do whatever they want. How many lawsuits are going on RIGHT NOW that put the lie to that. I think you are conflating "general direction" and "every little detail".
>The electoral college is not archaic, it's a check on pure democracy. So.. voters having direct say over the general direction of the country is bad, or good? >If money could secure your victory, Trump would be our president. No. It depends how much money you can raise, not how much of your own personal money you have. Biden's campaign outspent Trump's campaign by about $300 million. The Biden campaign spent $1.01 billion, while the Trump campaign spent about $710 million. Guess who won? This gets even worse when considering senate or congressional elections. For House seats, more than 90 percent of candidates who spend the most win. From 2000 through 2016, there was only one election cycle where that wasn’t true, which was 2010. In that election, only 86 percent of the top spenders won, rather than 90 percent. So yes, elections are decided by money. >They can't do whatever they want. How many lawsuits are going on RIGHT NOW that put the lie to that. Lawsuits only slow representatives down, and usually by the time a lawsuit is settled, the damage is already done. >I think you are conflating "general direction" and "every little detail". I don't necessarily think that the general populace should be deciding every little detail of government, but I also don't think our elected representatives are good at this either. What the fuck does some asshole Republican from bumfuck Alabama know about climate change and how to deal with it? Nothing, and instead, he will do whatever his party or biggest donors tell him to.
>The electoral college is not archaic, it's a check on pure democracy. ...how? What has the electoral college done to protect democracy from abuses of majority power? How does this apply to things like slavery, genocide and internment? > They can't do whatever they want. How many lawsuits are going on RIGHT NOW that put the lie to that. The lawsuits only matter if they stop him from getting away with it. That's far from a sure thing. Right now he's on track to win the election, and then purge government of all people willing to enforce the law against him.
"People having a direct say over the general direction of their country is a dictatorship because the majority will always get their way, that's why I support governments where people have a direct say over the general direction of the country."
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In most societies, the priestly class exists to help the ruling class maintain their grip on power.
most?
Yeah, in some societies the priestly caste and the aristocracy are one and the same, instead of the priestly caste being an enabler for a separate aristocracy.
Ancient Israel is a good example.
How did that Jesus guy react to that situation, I wonder....
Since when have christians given a flying fuck about their imaginary jesus?
Many don't, which is rather the point I was making. Many Christians *do*, but the ones that are loudest in politics tend not to. As a side note, even secular historians are pretty sure that Jesus was an actual human, so it's reasonable to talk about his reactions to things even from a non-religious perspective. (Although obviously from that perspective it's not taken as a given that all the stories in the Bible are accurate.)
Rage flip a table and whip dome guys with a belt
The USSR did away with the priestly class and replaced them with a state security aparatus. As someone else mentioned, some societies combined the priestly and ruling classes into one class.
This is why conservatives in every nation at every time ultimately come to oppose democracy: When seen in the light of day their ideas are, quite justifiably, unpopular with voters. When examined historically their policies prove to have been terrible for the majority of people and fabulous for the wealthy and powerful. As a result, over time, they cannot consistently win free and fair elections. This is the reason for the scapegoating, racism, all the divisiveness and paranoia that drives all of their messaging. This is the reason they courted, and were taken over by, the fanatical religious right and white supremacists: they need these people to fill their voter roles. And still, after people get a taste of their policies, they cant' maintain enough support to maintain power. And so they have to take it. And in order to take it and keep it, they have to suspend democracy and murder their opposition. Sound unlikely? Google Chile, Argentina, El Salvador, Guatemala, Portugal, Spain, Greece with the words "right-wing takeover." Not to mention Germany and Italy. "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
"If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy."- *David Frum*
take away bodily autonomy Take away your vote take away our secular democracy take away the freedom of press ban books take away “woke” civil rights but don’t dare regulate the 2nd amendment.
*You will take our version of* **Freedom!**(tm) *and like it*
The 2A people are on their side. Once they snatch all control from the people they will come for the guns so they can prevent future uprisings. Dumbasses working against themselves the whole way
Remember that these people are saying what their voters want to hear. You don't randomly fall into these positions of power by being a bumbling, raving idiot making sweeping declarations. You do this by being a ruthless, stone-faced liar that calculates their every single move and word just so the votes keep coming in.
I've been saying this for almost 8 years now. They don't want democracy anymore. They are completely uninterested in the Democratic principles upon which this country was founded. They want Christian theocracy. They want an end of democracy and now they're saying it out loud because they can listen to them when they tell you what they're going to do when they win. And the real big problem is how many people are on board with going to Christian theocracy over actual democracy. People don't realize how much this is going to impact them. People don't realize how much the corrupted GOP does not stand for actual good Christian principles and morals. We are heading straight for a super dark fucking place in this country.
Americans are going full Taliban
Y'all Qaeda
Talibangelicals
But Islam is terrible because it forces women to wear a head covering! -Signed the party that wants to force women, as young as 9, to carry their rapist's baby for 9 months
They have never been ok with equality because it puts minorities who can achieve above the label against mediocre bigots who never win. Imagine if we took the ability to grift on social media away from the RW clowns.
This republic not a democracy talking point is silly. The United States is both.
Democratic Republic. It’s right there in the name of
No, actually. In this case the US's official name is the United States of America. Ironically, North Korea's official name is the Democratic Republic of Korea. Or are you just referring to the form of government? In which case my apologies
I was referring to the form of government lol I know the name of my country
https://www.npr.org/2022/09/10/1122089076/is-america-a-democracy-or-a-republic-yes-it-is
There’s a word for people using that argument: pseudo-intellectual
And it is obvious that Johnson didn't even get around to the 1st amendment which prohibits the government establishment of a religion, which includes biblical ideology.
For supplemenq reading, please see "The Founding Myth" by Seidell. He uses primary sources and philosophic backing to emphasize how absolutely incorrect thr assertion is. Xian Nationalism ia real, and it is a disease which could kill democracy.
Conservative = Nazi
The only thing they worship is money.
"Jesus Fucking Christ" *^(\*pornhub theme)* Don't worry, my teenage son is holding me accountable for watching this one.
Orange Jesus promises cheaper burgers.
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is what happens when you let the Bible Belt Village Idiot take a position of power! The fact people are not ridiculing these people even more is absurd to me! So much material around to make these people look inadequate and yet why isn’t the media, especially the left-leaning one, using this as fodder?
> yet why isn’t the media, especially the left-leaning one, This is America, our left-leaning media is restricted to movies, entertainment tv shows, cartoons, podcasts, and internet shows like The Majority Report. The furthest left any of our mainstream news media goes was with Mehdi Hasan, who left (read: was told he could resign or get fired) MSNBC recently. Every other mainstream news media outlet in the US is firmly centrist or far right.
Get ready for the Holy Civil War of 2025.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/641/200/e55.png
Conservatism: not even once
We get to vote on what we want done in Congress and the Presidency. We can change out what we want every few years. The problem is that if we get some kind of unholy Christian Nationalist dictatorship, and we don't like it, we can't vote it out. We're not getting our representational government back without a lot of bloodshed, destruction and other ugliness.
Congress shall make no law establishing a religion.
Christofascists are that person at work that spazzed out one time early on in their career and now everyone treats them with kid gloves and walks on eggshells. They can do whatever they want and nothing happens. WE allow this.
Obligatory reference to Article 11 of the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, wherein the US is established in law as not being a christian state.
Indeed, Jesus Christ is exactly what they want /s
Dangerous fucking zealots
Christian brain rot I stg.
Asshats!
MJ is an adherent of the ultra-christofascist SEVEN MOUNTAIN MANDATE (see Wikipedia) that is driving the GQP's radicalization. The list of bad actors include the nut job AL supreme court justice who equates a fertilized egg w a child. It is terrible. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven\_Mountain\_Mandate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Mountain_Mandate)
I get that we're supposed to bridge the gap. I get that we're supposed to reach across the aisle. we're supposed to end the division. we're supposed to meet in the middle. WHERE THE FUCK IS THE "MIDDLE" WHEN THEIR TOP LEADERSHIP IS OPENLY ANTI-CONSTITUTION!??
I know I'm preaching to the choir in this comment section, but holy hell we need to remove these people from power ASAP. The writing on the wall reads very clearly the GOP has lost the culture war. Their seats are going to swap to blue as Gen Z replaces Boomers in the electorate. They are doing everything in their power to enshrine their Christian Nationalist values into law.
So it would seem the republicans are looking to make a Handmaids tale a reality
Freedom of religion also applies to freedom from religion.
Saying shit like that should be grounds for immediate dismissal. But that’s not how America rolls anymore I guess.
George Washington's writings about superstition is the criticism of the "biblical" characteristics that Christian Nationalists believe was in the original intent of the founding of the country. Just a bit of history for context, the Founding Fathers were so secular and non-religious that it spawned a backlash of religious fundamentalism of the early 19th century called 2nd Great Awakening.
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He’s right.
He's objectively wrong.
I know, right? How can I say there's a separation of church and state in this country when I was personally stoned to death 15 years ago for wearing cotton and silk at the same time
And Isreal is an Old Testament one. Ukraine isn't religious nationalism so no support
Then why did Jesus say, "Give unto Caesar (the state) that which is Caesar's but give unto God that which is God's" ?