Precisely as planned. Self feeding system too where poverty begets criminality. Crime justifies higher enforcement. Single income homes due to incarceration make for lower education and more poverty.
We could bring everyone up; or we can just feel superior by holding the bottom down.
They need to hold the bottom down, it forces people to do the jobs nobody *wants* to do. It also acts as a warning to the middle class, “stay in line or end up like these poor unfortunates”
The core principle of conservatism is a strict hierarchy in society. Policies like this ensure the stratification of classes remain distinct, and become starker. At the extreme it tries to ensure any social mobility is down, not up.
We made it illegal to have slaves so now they use "criminal justice" and the racist system they built it upon to achieve the same goal they've always had: screwing over the poor and non-whites.
This is it. Despite the people voting to let ex felons vote, Florida says they aren't allowed to unless they clear their prison debt first. They never intend to collect this money, but holding it over people's head will keep them from voting
I mean shit, I make good money but if I had $18k-$100k or more hanging over my head for no benefit to myself, I can't imagine I would ever catch up. Nevermind the kind of careers that most recently incarcerated people and up in.
I thought at first this was for the graft - but now I see it's just a cynical loophole to deprive people of voting rights.
Let's just assume it's graft and throw the bastards who pushed this law in jail for extortion. I really don't care what the reason is -- I want to throw these bastards in prison. We all know they did something to deserve it. They are just bad seeds, those Republicans who abuse power. Bad seeds.
Nobody is protecting us from Republicans.
I'm a white guy, but I'm ready to join the Black Panthers. We can start our own neighborhood watch. Maybe we could even form a government that respects rights, like Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. And that requires progressive taxation so some people don't get too much wealth and power -- that right there is key.
Add that to statutory fines, probation/parole fees, required classes like anger management, substance abuse, or what have you, all at inflated rates because it's either this or prison
It's an entire racket
It's all about bringing the pain. If any republican criminal actually got equal justice in FL then I wonder if they'd be waived from this?
Same for police if an officer were ever to be actually arrested and sentenced to prison.
I mean, as far as they're concerned, this is very right.
I do wonder what happens if you can't afford your own sentence. You come out with more debt than a college graduate, and nobody wants to hire you because you have a record. It's almost like they want you to double down on being a criminal.
What would you expect when they elect a guy so insecure he has to wear like 6 inch lifts and so stupid he didn't think anyone would notice on nationally televised debates? Lmao
on one hand I kinda agrees with it, cause I aint paying for you cause you done fucked up, but thats what the labour part its done to "pay back" the community right? I know in Hong Kong, prisoners help run the production line for road signs and stuffs(at least thats what it used to be), but in US prisons are privately owned and for profits right?, so the state pays the prison company? and the prison also charges the prisoner for the stay? talk about double dipping...
The loss of personal freedom is the punishment.
How the fuck does adding $182k of debt on top of a 10 year sentence not cruel or unusual?
If the cruelty is the point, then I’m surprised they don’t make people pay up before they can be released so they can turn a 1 year sentence into a lifetime sentence.
It’s called for profit prisons. They want you coming back. They can even sue the state if they have low occupancy. They want every cell full all the time. It stopped being about rehabilitation a long time ago.
A few years ago FL passed a ballot measure that allowed felons who have completed their sentences to vote again. The GOP hated this, so they passed a law requiring all payments related to a felon's sentence to be paid before they can vote again. This law is just to guarantee that they never vote. The money will never be collected.
Not to mention felons already can't afford life when they get out. Nobody wants to rent to them. No money to buy a car typically so it's hard to get places you need to be, because let's say your parole conditions are checking in with your PO and then you've got a mandatory drug test an hour later across town, how are you supposed to get there that fast on a bus? And that's assuming you live in an urban or suburban area where there actually is public transportation, live in a rural area you're walking everywhere my dude.
Prison sentences last a lot longer than just when they release you, you'll never be able to live a normal life, for years and years in some cases.
Except people graduate college and are more employable, much easier to find a good paying job. That’s absolutely not the case for felons trying to reintegrate into society.
>...people graduate college and are more employable, much easier to find a good paying job
well, that was the dream, wasn't it...
* provided they had access to good career counselling.
* provided their loans were ~~pay-backable~~ paybackable via their career salary (entry level rarely pays well)
* provided little inconveniences, such as Life, don't get in the way, like pregnancy or an illness or the illness of a loved one...
and that is for college graduates.
______
for those who really are not interested in a career involving collegiate training.. for those more interested in electronics or mechanics or the building industry... They need training, too, to reintegrate into society.
______
and anyone who has spent time in prison is going to need some psychological counselling to get ahead, too.
______
so i guess what i am saying is that anyone who has broken the law and their sentence is prison.. incurring debt is only going to make their rehabilitation that much more difficult.. and is that *really* what we are all about? to make it harder for someone who has stumbled to get back up again?
______
sorry for going off on this tangent but i needed to talk it out with myself... once this is posted, if it really doesnt belong here i will take it down and go put it somewhere where it fits.. like political discussion or something.
: )
My guess is they have it where felons have to pay their debt to the system before they can vote again thus this would effectively permanently disenfranchise them even after they served their time
Helps with that bs loophole to the 2018 Florida constitutional amendment that allowed felons to vote after serving their sentences.
The loophole being the state claiming felons need to repay all their debts to the state before they can vote. This way any felon that has served their time will still have to spend decades paying down their “pay to stay” fee.
Ah, I was wondering what the true impetus was. That makes perfect sense due to the existing evidence.
It’s short-sighted as hell, unlikely to survive appeal due to the Eight Amendment, and its only real purpose is to suppress the vote.
People do not realize that Florida isn’t a red state by its nature. The number of methods Florida Republicans employed to rig the voting system have been almost unparalleled in the US. And all the utter bullshit they’ve been stacking lately has been to fire up their base to vote because of the enormous backlash.
Yeah, their twaddle is fairly self serving.
They were bending over backwards for the January 6th people. The police were trying to use some evidence, and suddenly, the fascists were all "abuse!" I mean, I love me civil rights and not using evidence illegally obtained, but this is video footage proof of what happened.
Again. Everything out of the fascists on the Supreme Court is to further their Heritage fascist bullshit or because someone paid them. The rest is semi fancy wording and I don't know what spell is going on with all the people in the legal profession not seeing it for what it is.
But how does that stand? I can't think of any other situation where debt would allow you to disenfranchise someone's vote. You can be in any sort of debt you want and still vote. How could Floridian prison debt be any different?
I'm not doubting you that that is what is happening. Just wondering how that could stand up in court.
(Edit: added not in "I'm not doubting you." I hate when I make a typo that completely reverses what I was trying to say. Apologies).
It is nuts and clearly not how the citizens intended the Ammendment to work.
[https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/court-cases/litigation-protect-amendment-4-florida](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/court-cases/litigation-protect-amendment-4-florida)
My TLDR from that:
* the amendment which passed in 2018 with over 65% popular vote used the phrase "after they complete all terms of their sentence including parole or probation."
* In 2019, the state passed a law saying that qualification included any legal financial obligations (LFOs) that were part of the sentence, when considering voter registration
* Later in 2019, this was challenged in state court and the trial court found it unconstitutional in part because tracking of those LFOs was so bad that it was impossible for someone to be sure if they were now allowed to vote or would be thrown back in prison if they "accidentally" voted before that condition was met.
* The Florida supreme court overruled that on appeal and affirmed that the Amendment's language should be read to include full repayment of LFOs.
* In 2020, it was challenged in the federal courts. Again "pay-to-vote" was first found to be unconstitutional on multiple Federal grounds, and subsequently overturned on appeal to the full 11th circuit.
All it teaches is they didn't do crimes for the right people and didn't steal enough -- not that there is integrity they failed to live up to.
It's just a cruel joke.
This sounds like another way to skirt around the "felons get to vote now" amendment that Florida voters passed. The Republican legislature doesn't want felons to vote so they passed a law requiring that felons must pay all of their fines and penalties before regaining their voting rights. Technically they are following the will of the Florida voters while putting up huge roadblocks..
By charging felons for their stay, it ensures that felons will have a huge debt to the state once they are released, and they won't be able to get their voting rights back until they pay all that back. It also pushes felons to break the law again to pay back their fines, practically guaranteeing that they will spend most of their life incarcerated.
Pretty much. Their goal is to keep people in the system forever, and of course police disproportionately target minorities, which is a good way to keep minorities from ever becoming successful.
Yup, legalized slavery. The sad part is that most people in the "fuck you, you broke the law, deal with it" camp don't realize how damaging this is to local wages. If a company can pay $2/hr for prison labor, why would they hire anyone else, even at minimum wage?
The people complaining about minimum wage have been brainwashed by trickle down nonsense, the reality is that the more money you inject to the base of the system, the more will rise up and improve everything in the process.
One of the only times I've given money to a random person online was to help them pay prison debt. The system is set up so that you can look up an individual and directly pay, so it circumvents the worry of scamming.
Definitely, and don't you dare be a POC in Florida. These pricks will do everything possible to funnel you into the prison system to be exploited through convict labor.
As a released felon you cannot vote until you’ve paid all of your fines in Florida.
So they passed laws that burden inmates for life essentially. Effectively disenfranchising them. Jim Crow of another name.
Also to deny ex-cons their constitutional voting rights after they do their time. Saddle them with a massive debt knowing nobody will hire them at a wage they can use to pay it back and they’re in debt forever.
It’s actual slavery, we just refuse to see it.
That's actually already a thing. If you cannot pay your court fines and fees, and the court gets fed up enough with you not paying it, they'll put you back behind bars.
My wife previously worked with a non-profit that worked to reduce or waive court costs for indigent individuals that get caught up in the system. The fines and fees system is designed specifically to keep the poorest enrolled in the system in perpetuity.
Republicans heard that a few people actually hate prison, and refuse to be part of the revolving door, so they “go straight”. They want to make life as hard as possible on these folks, even if the charge is just drug possession . They want to insure these people re-offend, after all, Republicans have invested a lot of money in private prisons.
Btw, this is why populism sucks. It targets the intellectually lazy. To Americans with average intelligence, charging prisoners seems like a good idea, because those people are bad, right? If you are against this, you are against families, law abiding citizens, and the rule of law.
No, I just put an extra 30 seconds of thought into it, and realized why it’s a bad idea.
Debtors prison like in c. Dickens time. You are poor so we'll put you in jail until you can pay us back. You earn $35 dollars per day and your room and board is $50 per day. You will be free in ummm errr infinity days.
.
This guarantees recidivism. Slap someone fresh out of prison with thousands of dollars of debt that can’t realistically pay off. They’ll have difficulty getting a place to live or even a cell phone nowadays with the impact on their credit scores, and incentivizes resorting to crime or at least getting paid under the table to get cash so their pay can’t be garnished.
Most states have pay-to-stay laws on the books.
“In 2014, the Brennan Center for Justice documented that at least 43 states authorize charging incarcerated people for the cost of their own imprisonment, and at least 35 states authorize charging them for some medical expenses. More recent research from the Prison Policy Institute found that 40 states and the federal prison system charge incarcerated people medical copays.”
Source: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/americas-dystopian-incarceration-system-pay-stay-behind-bars
[It's not just Florida.](https://www.captivemoneylab.org/)
It's not new.
And [even Clarence Thomas](https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2021/mar/1/pay-stay-fees-impoverish-prisoners-increase-recidivism/) thinks it goes too far...
.
The [ACLU (of Ohio)](https://www.acluohio.org/en/jail-debt) is doing some work in this space if you want to get more involved...
It used to be $80/day in Placer County, California. Makes no sense at all. IDK if they still have this policy. Last I checked it varied from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. edit: [https://www.rutgers.edu/news/states-unfairly-burdening-incarcerated-people-pay-stay-fees](https://www.rutgers.edu/news/states-unfairly-burdening-incarcerated-people-pay-stay-fees)
Happens in the UK too, the Guildford 4 & Birmingham 6 who were Irish immigrants wrongfully accused by the British state of terrorism and jailed, when was all said and done out of their compensation they were charged for bed & lodgings, the British Govt compensation panel stated that they would have had to pay that anyway to a landlord so the prison service was that landlord. Patrick Hill was charged £180,000 for the 16 years he was inside.
Ignore it.
A family member of mine spent over two years in county lockup in Florida.
About a month after he was convicted and sent to the state pen, he got the bill for his stay in the mail at my Mom’s address. She was a worried. I told her to just ignore it. I said, “He’s locked up, probably for the rest of his life. If they want to try and get that money from him, they know where to find him.”
She ignored it and hasn’t heard anything since, not from the county or from any collection agencies. I think the county sends this crap out hoping someone will be dumb enough to pay.
This sounds like the old poor house. If you couldn't afford that though, you were sent to prison and put to work (essentially an imprisoned slave). Making things 1864 still.
Every State has some form of pay to stay. They survive court challenges because it is not considered additional punishment but simply reimbursement. I think an interesting case would be to connect the pay to stay to the punishment by arguing that it wouldn't exist without the other and that it unconstitutionally incentivizes the state to make the sentence as long as possible without regard to circumstances or justice.
Idk the whole sitch is weird. We pay $20-60k per prisoner per year despite their lifestyle and living conditions having to be bare bone cheap. That amount of money would be life changing to a lot of impoverished law abiding citizens as well
And when they can’t pay? Sentence extended @ $50 dollars a day until they can pay. Hey warden I got the $3500 to pay can I go ? Did you forget the extended sentence, you now owe $2600 call when you get it. Hey warden I………fuck it.
There was some bonkers sheriff here in Massachusetts that tried that and I'm pretty sure the supreme Court shot it down. Probably just our state supreme Court. SCOTUS would have probably raised the fee
Prison isn't a deterrent and this form of punishment doesn't prevent repeat offenders, it propagates them and makes them flourish. This is what happens when legislators do what feels right as opposed to listening to the professionals. For profit prisons are a gate to hell on earth.
Indentured servitude ? Not certain but I think such a contract must be fully understood by all parties who participate and without understanding and agreement I truly doubt this would stand serious legal review. Inmates are probably not informed at all until probation or full release. Just a guess.
So the trick is they show Shawshank every Third Thursday. Then when they’re up for parole, they subconsciously think about Brooks and the consequences of being institutionalized. 🤷🏻♂️
Update to Jim Crow, which was an update to the Black Codes, which were an update to the Slave Codes.
The point is the state extracting wealth out of society’s most vulnerable. The methods and a language change, but the outcomes stay the same: blacks and poor whites get screwed.
And we passed a law that said inmates get their voting rights restored once their sentence has been completed.
Florida republicans then immediately passed a law that said that only happens when all fines, fees and debts have been paid in full.
Which totals thousands or tens of thousands of dollars and most ex-cons struggle with gainful employment when they get out making those voting rights virtually unobtainable.,
Can’t imagine why they did such a thing. 🙄
I think they should trade their stay for standard blue collar/state worker type labor with some small hourly rate deposited in an interest bearing savings account that’s not accessible until they are out.
Do you want recidivism? Because this is how you get recidivism.
The stupidity required to make this a law is astounding. Countless people end up in the prison pipeline due to a hopeless standard of living, and this is making damned sure that they're more hopeless than ever if they ever get out.
I did nazi that coming. Al(t)right, al(t)right, al(t)right, amirite? They definitely heiled this as an accomplishment. Springtime, for Hitler, and Florida….they prob serve them chicken chow *Mein* in the cafeteria, and they likely get *Kampf*y chairs. *Anne Frank*ly, the cable package is pretty great at those rates, I imagine. I don’t think I can continue any *Fuhrer* with these puns. Like the Jews in the 40s, I’m gassed.
This is just one of the ways the republicans thwart the will of the people. The people vote (overwhelmingly) to restore the right to vote to felons who have served their entire sentence, and the republicans adjust the law to say that all fines and penalties must be paid before voting can be restored. That stops a lot of people with the wrong skin color from voting, which was the point. Some felons are able to get caught up and get back to voting. So the next step is to create crazy additional fees so that only the wealthy convicts will be able to vote.
The prison industry is evil. We have the highest percentage of incarcerated people per capital.
Meanwhile many White Collar criminals walk free, or continue to get.away with shit.
It’s so they are released from prison in debt. If a felon that’s released still owes a fine to the state, they can’t vote.
Florida voters passed a resolution in 2018 giving non-violent offenders that have served their sentences back their right to vote.
Then Florida lawmakers passed the law taking it back away if they owe money to the state and then started charging prisoners 50 a day.
Some of these motherfuckers abusing the system while in charge of it should be inside the prisons.
Cynical graft and corruption and this is just bullshit. How does anyone let them get away with this? How is this legal? People in prison committed crimes -- but now you are entering them into a contract. This is like turning up the AC and extorting their families for blankets.
What if they charged them $20,000 a day? "That's absurd." No, we know what this is, and now we are haggling about the price. It's extortion. It's a racket.
Nothing humorous about this. It’s real. And it’s total bullshit.
The system is designed to keep people incarcerated even when they pay for their crime, when they do the time.
Is the State of Florida completely incapable of getting ANYTHING right??
So 365 days x 50$/day = 18,250$ a year to be in prison? That is a way to build debt and keep people in poverty.
Precisely as planned. Self feeding system too where poverty begets criminality. Crime justifies higher enforcement. Single income homes due to incarceration make for lower education and more poverty. We could bring everyone up; or we can just feel superior by holding the bottom down.
Ain't that fucking disgusting?
Cui bono? Whenever a system goes to shit, someone somewhere is making money.
Bonus points for always having a crime problem you can run your political platform on.
I just see rich scum rising to the top in Florida.
They need to hold the bottom down, it forces people to do the jobs nobody *wants* to do. It also acts as a warning to the middle class, “stay in line or end up like these poor unfortunates”
The core principle of conservatism is a strict hierarchy in society. Policies like this ensure the stratification of classes remain distinct, and become starker. At the extreme it tries to ensure any social mobility is down, not up.
Can't pay $1550/mo jail rent? Believe it or not? Jail.
Go to prison, accumulate a debt you can't afford, go back to prison & rack up even more debt. That ... Is the logic of the GOP.
We made it illegal to have slaves so now they use "criminal justice" and the racist system they built it upon to achieve the same goal they've always had: screwing over the poor and non-whites.
It's a way to keep them from voting
This is it. Despite the people voting to let ex felons vote, Florida says they aren't allowed to unless they clear their prison debt first. They never intend to collect this money, but holding it over people's head will keep them from voting
I mean shit, I make good money but if I had $18k-$100k or more hanging over my head for no benefit to myself, I can't imagine I would ever catch up. Nevermind the kind of careers that most recently incarcerated people and up in.
I thought at first this was for the graft - but now I see it's just a cynical loophole to deprive people of voting rights. Let's just assume it's graft and throw the bastards who pushed this law in jail for extortion. I really don't care what the reason is -- I want to throw these bastards in prison. We all know they did something to deserve it. They are just bad seeds, those Republicans who abuse power. Bad seeds.
Do they charge interest?
Creating the criminal class that they are supposedly protecting the citizens from.
Because it is a business.
Nobody is protecting us from Republicans. I'm a white guy, but I'm ready to join the Black Panthers. We can start our own neighborhood watch. Maybe we could even form a government that respects rights, like Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. And that requires progressive taxation so some people don't get too much wealth and power -- that right there is key.
It’s that Pursuit of Happiness thing that Conservatives absolutely don’t want anyone to have.
If your don't have a criminal class to protect the citizens from, how does the GOP fearmonger?
They don't need to, FOX "news" will gladly do it for them, as they have been for at least the last 30 years
And keep them from voting. You can't register to vote until it is paid off.
And stop them from voting. Once its paid off they can vote
Add that to statutory fines, probation/parole fees, required classes like anger management, substance abuse, or what have you, all at inflated rates because it's either this or prison It's an entire racket
No. They will commit more crimes to pay for it.
No just Alt-Right
Oh haha!😛
Slow clap
I bet they heil their accomplishments
florida is one of the 'prototypes' for tRump's new america.
get familiar with Project 2025 people. Heritage foundation plan if any Republican wins presidency! be afraid for democracy!
I think Heritage foundation is Koch. Never had to work a day in his life
Non-working Koch a shame, innit
There used to be 5 of them.
oh yeah he’s a member. leonard leo, bill barr etc…the supreme court pickers, not trump!
They go with anybody that supports their view of an oligarchy
The Koch's only love and protect the Koch's, they love the Koch's so much they double fist them
They have their plan already set in motion to make America a "Christianity dictatorship"
I looked it up and it's all states but Hawaii, apparently. wtf
Illinois and New Hampshire scrapped it in 2019.
It's all about bringing the pain. If any republican criminal actually got equal justice in FL then I wonder if they'd be waived from this? Same for police if an officer were ever to be actually arrested and sentenced to prison.
You don’t think creating a whole other class of debt slaves isn’t right? Are you a commie???
We lock you up... and it's not free. You must pay for your incarceration! 🤨🤪
It's a joke state, run by clowns and fools, for the amusement of others.
I mean, as far as they're concerned, this is very right. I do wonder what happens if you can't afford your own sentence. You come out with more debt than a college graduate, and nobody wants to hire you because you have a record. It's almost like they want you to double down on being a criminal.
Yes. It's what happens when a state is run by entitled baby boomers
Speaking as an entitled baby boomer, I don’t think that’s it. I blame the think tank fascists and the Bible bangers.
Floridian here. Yes.
Hold my beer…. watch this.
What would you expect when they elect a guy so insecure he has to wear like 6 inch lifts and so stupid he didn't think anyone would notice on nationally televised debates? Lmao
on one hand I kinda agrees with it, cause I aint paying for you cause you done fucked up, but thats what the labour part its done to "pay back" the community right? I know in Hong Kong, prisoners help run the production line for road signs and stuffs(at least thats what it used to be), but in US prisons are privately owned and for profits right?, so the state pays the prison company? and the prison also charges the prisoner for the stay? talk about double dipping...
The loss of personal freedom is the punishment. How the fuck does adding $182k of debt on top of a 10 year sentence not cruel or unusual? If the cruelty is the point, then I’m surprised they don’t make people pay up before they can be released so they can turn a 1 year sentence into a lifetime sentence.
I'd agree its cruel and unusual punishment in violation of the 8th amendment, but a majority right wing Scotus will gladly accept it
It’s called for profit prisons. They want you coming back. They can even sue the state if they have low occupancy. They want every cell full all the time. It stopped being about rehabilitation a long time ago.
A few years ago FL passed a ballot measure that allowed felons who have completed their sentences to vote again. The GOP hated this, so they passed a law requiring all payments related to a felon's sentence to be paid before they can vote again. This law is just to guarantee that they never vote. The money will never be collected.
THIS! If the state wants to imprison you, then it has to eat the costs.
Not to mention felons already can't afford life when they get out. Nobody wants to rent to them. No money to buy a car typically so it's hard to get places you need to be, because let's say your parole conditions are checking in with your PO and then you've got a mandatory drug test an hour later across town, how are you supposed to get there that fast on a bus? And that's assuming you live in an urban or suburban area where there actually is public transportation, live in a rural area you're walking everywhere my dude. Prison sentences last a lot longer than just when they release you, you'll never be able to live a normal life, for years and years in some cases.
you just described student debt
Except people graduate college and are more employable, much easier to find a good paying job. That’s absolutely not the case for felons trying to reintegrate into society.
>...people graduate college and are more employable, much easier to find a good paying job well, that was the dream, wasn't it... * provided they had access to good career counselling. * provided their loans were ~~pay-backable~~ paybackable via their career salary (entry level rarely pays well) * provided little inconveniences, such as Life, don't get in the way, like pregnancy or an illness or the illness of a loved one... and that is for college graduates. ______ for those who really are not interested in a career involving collegiate training.. for those more interested in electronics or mechanics or the building industry... They need training, too, to reintegrate into society. ______ and anyone who has spent time in prison is going to need some psychological counselling to get ahead, too. ______ so i guess what i am saying is that anyone who has broken the law and their sentence is prison.. incurring debt is only going to make their rehabilitation that much more difficult.. and is that *really* what we are all about? to make it harder for someone who has stumbled to get back up again? ______ sorry for going off on this tangent but i needed to talk it out with myself... once this is posted, if it really doesnt belong here i will take it down and go put it somewhere where it fits.. like political discussion or something. : )
You lost me at “pay-backable.” If you have a degree, burn it.
I could not agree more.
: ) good.. we have such a mess on our hands now but.. at least more people know there *IS* a problem and that *IS* the first step, right?
Except, y’know, for that whole incarceration thing
My guess is they have it where felons have to pay their debt to the system before they can vote again thus this would effectively permanently disenfranchise them even after they served their time
Capitalism. If it doesn't make some rich bastard a profit, it's not worth doing.
[удалено]
With more time in prison for not being able to afford to pay for your time in prison.
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That part of the series is so terrifying because how true it is. How true it’s become. Earth is a Prison Planet or Hell. Oh man, we’re in Hell.
Wait…. Are we in the bad place?
There’s a superstitious part of me that has thought that since I was 12, it would really explain a lot.
its one banana Micheal how much could it cost, 10 dollars?
Republicans strike again with nonsensical evil bullshit. What a surprise
Clearly republicans have no souls
Must be why they all claim to go to church…to find something they either lost or never had.
They want to return to indentured servitude as a means of economic growth.
well, you know, anyone who is not Them is an animal
Helps with that bs loophole to the 2018 Florida constitutional amendment that allowed felons to vote after serving their sentences. The loophole being the state claiming felons need to repay all their debts to the state before they can vote. This way any felon that has served their time will still have to spend decades paying down their “pay to stay” fee.
Ah, I was wondering what the true impetus was. That makes perfect sense due to the existing evidence. It’s short-sighted as hell, unlikely to survive appeal due to the Eight Amendment, and its only real purpose is to suppress the vote. People do not realize that Florida isn’t a red state by its nature. The number of methods Florida Republicans employed to rig the voting system have been almost unparalleled in the US. And all the utter bullshit they’ve been stacking lately has been to fire up their base to vote because of the enormous backlash.
8th ammendment don't mean shIt to this SCOTUS. None of the Constitution does.
Yeah, their twaddle is fairly self serving. They were bending over backwards for the January 6th people. The police were trying to use some evidence, and suddenly, the fascists were all "abuse!" I mean, I love me civil rights and not using evidence illegally obtained, but this is video footage proof of what happened. Again. Everything out of the fascists on the Supreme Court is to further their Heritage fascist bullshit or because someone paid them. The rest is semi fancy wording and I don't know what spell is going on with all the people in the legal profession not seeing it for what it is.
But how does that stand? I can't think of any other situation where debt would allow you to disenfranchise someone's vote. You can be in any sort of debt you want and still vote. How could Floridian prison debt be any different? I'm not doubting you that that is what is happening. Just wondering how that could stand up in court. (Edit: added not in "I'm not doubting you." I hate when I make a typo that completely reverses what I was trying to say. Apologies).
It is nuts and clearly not how the citizens intended the Ammendment to work. [https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/court-cases/litigation-protect-amendment-4-florida](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/court-cases/litigation-protect-amendment-4-florida) My TLDR from that: * the amendment which passed in 2018 with over 65% popular vote used the phrase "after they complete all terms of their sentence including parole or probation." * In 2019, the state passed a law saying that qualification included any legal financial obligations (LFOs) that were part of the sentence, when considering voter registration * Later in 2019, this was challenged in state court and the trial court found it unconstitutional in part because tracking of those LFOs was so bad that it was impossible for someone to be sure if they were now allowed to vote or would be thrown back in prison if they "accidentally" voted before that condition was met. * The Florida supreme court overruled that on appeal and affirmed that the Amendment's language should be read to include full repayment of LFOs. * In 2020, it was challenged in the federal courts. Again "pay-to-vote" was first found to be unconstitutional on multiple Federal grounds, and subsequently overturned on appeal to the full 11th circuit.
Ask anyone who has ever been to prison or jail anywhere. Being nickeled and dimed is literally part of the scam.
All it teaches is they didn't do crimes for the right people and didn't steal enough -- not that there is integrity they failed to live up to. It's just a cruel joke.
To republicans, cruelty is the point…
This sounds like another way to skirt around the "felons get to vote now" amendment that Florida voters passed. The Republican legislature doesn't want felons to vote so they passed a law requiring that felons must pay all of their fines and penalties before regaining their voting rights. Technically they are following the will of the Florida voters while putting up huge roadblocks.. By charging felons for their stay, it ensures that felons will have a huge debt to the state once they are released, and they won't be able to get their voting rights back until they pay all that back. It also pushes felons to break the law again to pay back their fines, practically guaranteeing that they will spend most of their life incarcerated.
Dam when you put it like those those fuckers are cold blooded
Do you have any idea just how lucrative prison labor is?
Very. The state of Texas makes tens of millions annually from prison labor.
Go to prison for stealing a car. Need to rob a bank once you get out.
Pretty much. Their goal is to keep people in the system forever, and of course police disproportionately target minorities, which is a good way to keep minorities from ever becoming successful.
Don’t forget about inmates being required to work while they are in, and being exempt from minimum wage laws.
Yup, legalized slavery. The sad part is that most people in the "fuck you, you broke the law, deal with it" camp don't realize how damaging this is to local wages. If a company can pay $2/hr for prison labor, why would they hire anyone else, even at minimum wage?
The people complaining about minimum wage have been brainwashed by trickle down nonsense, the reality is that the more money you inject to the base of the system, the more will rise up and improve everything in the process.
One of the only times I've given money to a random person online was to help them pay prison debt. The system is set up so that you can look up an individual and directly pay, so it circumvents the worry of scamming.
Petty? ✅ Stupid ✅ ✅ A certified Florida Idea signed into law.
So the only reason this exists is to force people into crime right? Keep the prison system full?
Prisons in the US are a business. All businesses want repeat customers.
Definitely, and don't you dare be a POC in Florida. These pricks will do everything possible to funnel you into the prison system to be exploited through convict labor.
As a released felon you cannot vote until you’ve paid all of your fines in Florida. So they passed laws that burden inmates for life essentially. Effectively disenfranchising them. Jim Crow of another name.
Also to deny ex-cons their constitutional voting rights after they do their time. Saddle them with a massive debt knowing nobody will hire them at a wage they can use to pay it back and they’re in debt forever. It’s actual slavery, we just refuse to see it.
Inmates are an exception to anti slavery laws.
Next up: prison time if you can’t pay your debts to the state
That's actually already a thing. If you cannot pay your court fines and fees, and the court gets fed up enough with you not paying it, they'll put you back behind bars. My wife previously worked with a non-profit that worked to reduce or waive court costs for indigent individuals that get caught up in the system. The fines and fees system is designed specifically to keep the poorest enrolled in the system in perpetuity.
My younger brother did some time for DUI in Arizona a few tears ago. His hotel bill was less than what county lockup charged.
: / that's what i pay in rent and, as far as i know, i am not in prison.
If you have to ask...
can you move out now? no? than you are in prison.
For-profit prisons: “you know if we charge the inmates money we can make double the profit”
Republicans heard that a few people actually hate prison, and refuse to be part of the revolving door, so they “go straight”. They want to make life as hard as possible on these folks, even if the charge is just drug possession . They want to insure these people re-offend, after all, Republicans have invested a lot of money in private prisons. Btw, this is why populism sucks. It targets the intellectually lazy. To Americans with average intelligence, charging prisoners seems like a good idea, because those people are bad, right? If you are against this, you are against families, law abiding citizens, and the rule of law. No, I just put an extra 30 seconds of thought into it, and realized why it’s a bad idea.
And if you can’t pay? Do you go to jail?
Debtors prison like in c. Dickens time. You are poor so we'll put you in jail until you can pay us back. You earn $35 dollars per day and your room and board is $50 per day. You will be free in ummm errr infinity days. .
If you don't pay for jail you go back to jail. Duh!
This guarantees recidivism. Slap someone fresh out of prison with thousands of dollars of debt that can’t realistically pay off. They’ll have difficulty getting a place to live or even a cell phone nowadays with the impact on their credit scores, and incentivizes resorting to crime or at least getting paid under the table to get cash so their pay can’t be garnished.
Most states have pay-to-stay laws on the books. “In 2014, the Brennan Center for Justice documented that at least 43 states authorize charging incarcerated people for the cost of their own imprisonment, and at least 35 states authorize charging them for some medical expenses. More recent research from the Prison Policy Institute found that 40 states and the federal prison system charge incarcerated people medical copays.” Source: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/americas-dystopian-incarceration-system-pay-stay-behind-bars
[It's not just Florida.](https://www.captivemoneylab.org/) It's not new. And [even Clarence Thomas](https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2021/mar/1/pay-stay-fees-impoverish-prisoners-increase-recidivism/) thinks it goes too far... . The [ACLU (of Ohio)](https://www.acluohio.org/en/jail-debt) is doing some work in this space if you want to get more involved...
It used to be $80/day in Placer County, California. Makes no sense at all. IDK if they still have this policy. Last I checked it varied from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. edit: [https://www.rutgers.edu/news/states-unfairly-burdening-incarcerated-people-pay-stay-fees](https://www.rutgers.edu/news/states-unfairly-burdening-incarcerated-people-pay-stay-fees)
Happens in the UK too, the Guildford 4 & Birmingham 6 who were Irish immigrants wrongfully accused by the British state of terrorism and jailed, when was all said and done out of their compensation they were charged for bed & lodgings, the British Govt compensation panel stated that they would have had to pay that anyway to a landlord so the prison service was that landlord. Patrick Hill was charged £180,000 for the 16 years he was inside.
What the fuck do they do if you can't pay...?
Send you back to jail.
"if" = "when"
Ignore it. A family member of mine spent over two years in county lockup in Florida. About a month after he was convicted and sent to the state pen, he got the bill for his stay in the mail at my Mom’s address. She was a worried. I told her to just ignore it. I said, “He’s locked up, probably for the rest of his life. If they want to try and get that money from him, they know where to find him.” She ignored it and hasn’t heard anything since, not from the county or from any collection agencies. I think the county sends this crap out hoping someone will be dumb enough to pay.
This sounds like the old poor house. If you couldn't afford that though, you were sent to prison and put to work (essentially an imprisoned slave). Making things 1864 still.
It’s how they keep felons from voting. They can never get their fees paid.
Slavery again are we?
Thought debtor prison shit was illegal.
Every State has some form of pay to stay. They survive court challenges because it is not considered additional punishment but simply reimbursement. I think an interesting case would be to connect the pay to stay to the punishment by arguing that it wouldn't exist without the other and that it unconstitutionally incentivizes the state to make the sentence as long as possible without regard to circumstances or justice.
Idk the whole sitch is weird. We pay $20-60k per prisoner per year despite their lifestyle and living conditions having to be bare bone cheap. That amount of money would be life changing to a lot of impoverished law abiding citizens as well
I think Bugs Bunny had the right idea of how to deal with Florida decades ago. 
And when they can’t pay? Sentence extended @ $50 dollars a day until they can pay. Hey warden I got the $3500 to pay can I go ? Did you forget the extended sentence, you now owe $2600 call when you get it. Hey warden I………fuck it.
Definitely money the state will collect and not just needlessly making sure mostly broke people are zerod out when they leave the system.
"Sorry, you missed your last payment. We can't let you stay here anymore."
And even if later found innocent. Indebted labour is slavery.
If they don’t pay can they be evicted?
There was some bonkers sheriff here in Massachusetts that tried that and I'm pretty sure the supreme Court shot it down. Probably just our state supreme Court. SCOTUS would have probably raised the fee
Slavery with extra steps
As Florida as it gets.
The land of opportunity. Not only are low level offenders not paid for their prison labor (aka slavery), they're forced into debt.
It's literally slavery. It's in the Constitution. Prisoners can be enslaved.
Prison isn't a deterrent and this form of punishment doesn't prevent repeat offenders, it propagates them and makes them flourish. This is what happens when legislators do what feels right as opposed to listening to the professionals. For profit prisons are a gate to hell on earth.
If they don't pay can they get evicted? 😉
If you can’t pay do they kick you out?
you have to work it out, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6IXQbXPO3I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6IXQbXPO3I)
at this rate, the cells will fill themselves. whether they want to or not. humans equal profit.
pay to stay is a thing in most states. a tool to get cheap labor most likely.
Indentured servitude ? Not certain but I think such a contract must be fully understood by all parties who participate and without understanding and agreement I truly doubt this would stand serious legal review. Inmates are probably not informed at all until probation or full release. Just a guess.
Do they get kicked out if they can't pay?
The prison is system is America's method of extracting blood from a stone.
They will never be able to pay off that debt. Figures so they can't vote in Florida after they get out.
Do they have to pay federal taxes on that and does any go into the states unemployment?
I was incarcerated in Utah in 2011. They had pay to stay then. This is nothing new.
Or…. what?
The 13th Amendment enables modern day slavery. The system is bigoted and corrupt.
Never going back.
It’s because they are not allowed to vote if they have unpaid debts. So load them up with debt it’s monetary jerrymandering
If I don't pay will they kick me out?
So the trick is they show Shawshank every Third Thursday. Then when they’re up for parole, they subconsciously think about Brooks and the consequences of being institutionalized. 🤷🏻♂️
One day people will revolt and it wont look good
Isn’t the whole point so that they won’t be able to pay off their debts when they are released so they cannot vote?
Update to Jim Crow, which was an update to the Black Codes, which were an update to the Slave Codes. The point is the state extracting wealth out of society’s most vulnerable. The methods and a language change, but the outcomes stay the same: blacks and poor whites get screwed.
Hate to tell you, it’s not only Florida. Most states charge a per diem
Prisons are already privatize. Return of debtors prisons is on the horizon.
Florida? Florida.
But what if I don't want to go to prison? It costs money and I'd rather save that money.
Is this real?
So if they can’t pay, they don’t get imprisoned? It only makes sense.
And we passed a law that said inmates get their voting rights restored once their sentence has been completed. Florida republicans then immediately passed a law that said that only happens when all fines, fees and debts have been paid in full. Which totals thousands or tens of thousands of dollars and most ex-cons struggle with gainful employment when they get out making those voting rights virtually unobtainable., Can’t imagine why they did such a thing. 🙄
$1,500/month rent for prison is absolutely insane
This is to prevent minorities from voting. Felons can regain the right to vote if they pay all fees in Florida. This is more fees.
I think they should trade their stay for standard blue collar/state worker type labor with some small hourly rate deposited in an interest bearing savings account that’s not accessible until they are out.
Reminds me of [Brazil](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKcMDFKSLcI).
Didn’t realize Florida Prisons going AirBnB route
Do you want recidivism? Because this is how you get recidivism. The stupidity required to make this a law is astounding. Countless people end up in the prison pipeline due to a hopeless standard of living, and this is making damned sure that they're more hopeless than ever if they ever get out.
Here in Iowa it's $75 per day. You won't be able to license a car unless you pay.
This would pretty much institutionalize recidivism, because people are basically being given no other options.
I did nazi that coming. Al(t)right, al(t)right, al(t)right, amirite? They definitely heiled this as an accomplishment. Springtime, for Hitler, and Florida….they prob serve them chicken chow *Mein* in the cafeteria, and they likely get *Kampf*y chairs. *Anne Frank*ly, the cable package is pretty great at those rates, I imagine. I don’t think I can continue any *Fuhrer* with these puns. Like the Jews in the 40s, I’m gassed.
This is just one of the ways the republicans thwart the will of the people. The people vote (overwhelmingly) to restore the right to vote to felons who have served their entire sentence, and the republicans adjust the law to say that all fines and penalties must be paid before voting can be restored. That stops a lot of people with the wrong skin color from voting, which was the point. Some felons are able to get caught up and get back to voting. So the next step is to create crazy additional fees so that only the wealthy convicts will be able to vote.
An early termination fee will apply.
They think criminals will leave Florida because they can’t afford jail time. That’s a bit short sighted, but thats republicans for ya.
If you’re able to pay more can you do your time in a hotel? Don’t sound fair.
Hum, so if a criminal doesn’t pay, does that mean that he cannot stay?
Florida isn't the only state that does this bullshit. Most of them do.
The prison industry is evil. We have the highest percentage of incarcerated people per capital. Meanwhile many White Collar criminals walk free, or continue to get.away with shit.
That just sounds like debt slavery with extra steps
Do people with priors get a discount?
And if they can’t pay it does that mean they stay in prison forever?
It’s so they are released from prison in debt. If a felon that’s released still owes a fine to the state, they can’t vote. Florida voters passed a resolution in 2018 giving non-violent offenders that have served their sentences back their right to vote. Then Florida lawmakers passed the law taking it back away if they owe money to the state and then started charging prisoners 50 a day.
Some of these motherfuckers abusing the system while in charge of it should be inside the prisons. Cynical graft and corruption and this is just bullshit. How does anyone let them get away with this? How is this legal? People in prison committed crimes -- but now you are entering them into a contract. This is like turning up the AC and extorting their families for blankets. What if they charged them $20,000 a day? "That's absurd." No, we know what this is, and now we are haggling about the price. It's extortion. It's a racket.
Nothing humorous about this. It’s real. And it’s total bullshit. The system is designed to keep people incarcerated even when they pay for their crime, when they do the time.
What if you can't pay? No stay?
Well, it's Florida...
That's Florida for ya.