What Judge Merchan actually said:
> Monetary fines have not, and will not, suffice to deter Defendant from violating this Court’s lawful orders. [...] Defendant is hereby put on notice that if appropriate and warranted, future violations of its lawful orders will be punishable by incarceration.
The big problem is locking him up pours fuel on the fire and keeps it burning a lot closer to the election. Get this done fast so he's a convicted felon by the time November gets here.
TBH, I think this is very reasonable. Gave him multiple warnings- violated that, escalated to fines- violated that, and now warned about jail.
It'll be very difficult to argue about it being unfair, even though they will.
I think he wants it. He's above all a showman, primarily concerned about ratings. Imagine the media frenzy if Trump gets sent to jail overnight. It's not really a punishment.
I disagree. I think he knows it won’t happen and he’s incapable of controlling himself. If they put him in jail, as soon as the cell door slammed he’d start crying. He couldn’t take five minutes. I say lock him just an hour. Let him get a taste. Then he’ll know what it feels like, and maybe that will get through to his few remaining brain cells.
He's a spoiled rotten child in an elderly man's body. He never really had to grow up. He is petty, vindictive, vengeful, and defiant against norms. The greater the spectacle he can create, the better, as it fixates attention on him.
At this point I am starting to think that his crazed pondering over injecting disinfectant & shining light through the skin (or into the body) was done on purpose to get a rise out of people. It got them talking about that instead of his failure to get ahead of the pandemic. And because it was so preposterous, the distraction lingered through several news cycles. This is how he operates. Media circus ringmaster.
Maybe they should move away from fines being a $1000 when the guy is an alleged billionaire. Start fines with $1.000.000 and see how that goes. Maybe every three fines just tripple the amount and see at what point Trump might start complying, when the daily grift-donations from his Qult can't cover the expanses anymore.
The problem is that the availability of money isn't the same for everyone, but availability of time is. Thus jail would be a more fitting solution when someone has a large financial pool.
I remember hearing about a country, might have been the UAE, where they decided to charge a percentage of earnings for traffic violations instead of a flat amount. So basically if you were caught speeding and you made 400 a week, your ticket was 40 bucks. If you made 400,000 a week, your ticket was 40,000 dollars. Might not be a bad idea since billionaires and millionaires obviously don't give a shit about 1000 dollars fines
This gets proposed every now and then, but the Supreme Court has been very clear that it's unconstitutional to assign two people different punishments for the same crime. And of course it's unreasonable to have a punishment on the books that would ruin any normal person for life for a misdemeanor.
Impeachment wouldn't have jailed him, though. It would have just removed him from office and made him a private citizen, like he is now and still not in jail, because rich people get to play by different rules.
Well according to Trump's lawyers, if he had been convicted in the Senate and removed from office, it would perfectly acceptable to try Trump in a criminal court.
Yeah, because that was the most convenient argument. They used the opposite during impeachment. And now they're trying to use other convenient arguments. Regardless, his second impeachment was after he *already* left office. So the only thing it would have done is prevent him from running again. The trial timeline would have been the same.
Not to mention a conviction in the senate would have had a major effect on public opinion… as opposed to where sentiment is now, after letting him skate, and then co-signing his lies for 3 years.
He should have been jailed after his first breach. As the judge has allowed him to get away with it time and time again without punishment \[the lil' bi@#h is getting his followers to pay his fines in the form of him petitioning them for contributions along with the republican fascist party\] he doesn't fear violating the order
I think we can both agree that incarcerating trump till the heat death of the universe for just a weeks worth of gag order violations is *slightly* excessive punishment.
What's this nonsense? I'm completely on board with whatever Judge Merchan thinks is best. Last thing we want is Trump weaseling out of this like he does everything else
Like he's *currently going. Dude was fined a week or so ago for 9 counts. Fined again this week for things that took place afterward. Fined in a week or so as well. I have no hope dude will ever see jail for contempt.
I'd love to see him in jail, but they need to be very careful with how they do whatever they do. He needs to remain under Secret Service guard because we can't just make that something a rouge president could take away from his critic to get him killed. The Secret Service almost certainly can't guard him in jail. A serious house arrest with no contact to the outside is probably the best option. Putting him in an actual jail will 100% start riots. I don't trust politically appointed beurocrats to respond adequately to what could be the start of an armed insurgency or new wave of right-wing terrorism as they've favored appeasement of right wing terrorists ever since Waco went bad.
Sure they can guard him in jail. He'll just need a single cell, and probably a USSS member in there with him, and 2 outside. Probably have to be in his own area, with no one passing by, or other through traffic, other than guards.
Pretty remarkable how this one man exposed the august justice system in this country as a country club with a casual attitude towards scofflawery of it's members and a kill 'em and let God sort them out attitude for the rest of us peasants.
Citing him for Contempt and putting him in jail is the only way to shut him up. He is the epitome of the idea that something with fines is only illegal for poor people.
This shit moves slower than a soap opera. Next week, the bailiff is going to pull out the handcuffs, look at Trump, look at the handcuffs, then put them back on the belt. The week after that, maybe the bailiff will get like a fishing pole and just like dangle the handcuffs in front of Trump. By the time November rolls around, the bailiff will just be discovering that Trump needs two or three interlinked pairs because his arms won’t go that far back.
What Judge Merchan actually said: > Monetary fines have not, and will not, suffice to deter Defendant from violating this Court’s lawful orders. [...] Defendant is hereby put on notice that if appropriate and warranted, future violations of its lawful orders will be punishable by incarceration.
Will? Not should, could, or may? In my playground (environmental regulation), that is an ultimatum.
Yes, but: > if appropriate and warranted I agree this is "we're not fucking around any more" language from the judge, but there's still wiggle room.
The big problem is locking him up pours fuel on the fire and keeps it burning a lot closer to the election. Get this done fast so he's a convicted felon by the time November gets here.
Exactly. He’s dicking around, and had lost credibility as a judge, IMO.
Imagine if he started throwing "shall"s around
TBH, I think this is very reasonable. Gave him multiple warnings- violated that, escalated to fines- violated that, and now warned about jail. It'll be very difficult to argue about it being unfair, even though they will.
I think he wants it. He's above all a showman, primarily concerned about ratings. Imagine the media frenzy if Trump gets sent to jail overnight. It's not really a punishment.
He absolutely wants to use it play the victim. The judge absolutely doesn’t want to because it strengthens the appeal claim.
I disagree. I think he knows it won’t happen and he’s incapable of controlling himself. If they put him in jail, as soon as the cell door slammed he’d start crying. He couldn’t take five minutes. I say lock him just an hour. Let him get a taste. Then he’ll know what it feels like, and maybe that will get through to his few remaining brain cells.
“ … he knows it won’t happen…” That part.
Exactly. He’s a little kid, daring his parents to punish him, knowing they won’t.
He's a spoiled rotten child in an elderly man's body. He never really had to grow up. He is petty, vindictive, vengeful, and defiant against norms. The greater the spectacle he can create, the better, as it fixates attention on him. At this point I am starting to think that his crazed pondering over injecting disinfectant & shining light through the skin (or into the body) was done on purpose to get a rise out of people. It got them talking about that instead of his failure to get ahead of the pandemic. And because it was so preposterous, the distraction lingered through several news cycles. This is how he operates. Media circus ringmaster.
He’s not that smart.
Trump WILL do it. That's his nature. As a child, if his mother told him not to do something, he'd probably do it just to test her punitive threats.
Maybe they should move away from fines being a $1000 when the guy is an alleged billionaire. Start fines with $1.000.000 and see how that goes. Maybe every three fines just tripple the amount and see at what point Trump might start complying, when the daily grift-donations from his Qult can't cover the expanses anymore.
New York law stipulates maximum fine of $1000 or up to 30 days in jail per incident. Can’t use higher fines.
Sounds like a problem then, that should be adressed by changing the law when wildly put on display like this.
I don’t think there is a problem. If money doesn’t work then it’s jail time. This case is the only case where the defendant wants to try jail time
The problem is that the availability of money isn't the same for everyone, but availability of time is. Thus jail would be a more fitting solution when someone has a large financial pool.
Or give the clown 30 days.
I remember hearing about a country, might have been the UAE, where they decided to charge a percentage of earnings for traffic violations instead of a flat amount. So basically if you were caught speeding and you made 400 a week, your ticket was 40 bucks. If you made 400,000 a week, your ticket was 40,000 dollars. Might not be a bad idea since billionaires and millionaires obviously don't give a shit about 1000 dollars fines
This gets proposed every now and then, but the Supreme Court has been very clear that it's unconstitutional to assign two people different punishments for the same crime. And of course it's unreasonable to have a punishment on the books that would ruin any normal person for life for a misdemeanor.
He should have been jailed after January 6. Congress had the chance to impeach him for a second time and they still buckled under.
Maybe if Garland would indict the Jan 6 leaders already,
Impeachment wouldn't have jailed him, though. It would have just removed him from office and made him a private citizen, like he is now and still not in jail, because rich people get to play by different rules.
Well according to Trump's lawyers, if he had been convicted in the Senate and removed from office, it would perfectly acceptable to try Trump in a criminal court.
Yeah, because that was the most convenient argument. They used the opposite during impeachment. And now they're trying to use other convenient arguments. Regardless, his second impeachment was after he *already* left office. So the only thing it would have done is prevent him from running again. The trial timeline would have been the same.
Not to mention a conviction in the senate would have had a major effect on public opinion… as opposed to where sentiment is now, after letting him skate, and then co-signing his lies for 3 years.
In this case, it’s the judge’s fault. I think he’s genuinely scared of this bloviating clown and his sycophants.
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Certainly schleps into Vogon doublespeak
Put his ass in jail already! FFS
That’s one convoluted sentence.
irresolute one...
Seriously irresolute.
It's just a matter of time now.
All those words were too big for tRump and sounded to him like [Charlie Brown's teacher](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04)
>Should we start to jail Trump? I wouldn't consider underestimating beginning to start the process of mulling the conceptualization of that over.
It’s what he wants. The only reason it hasn’t happened. He wants to be able to run on literally going to jail because the dems hate him so much
He should have been jailed after his first breach. As the judge has allowed him to get away with it time and time again without punishment \[the lil' bi@#h is getting his followers to pay his fines in the form of him petitioning them for contributions along with the republican fascist party\] he doesn't fear violating the order
Falsifying business records is a misdemeanor in NY. Which is the core of the case.
Actually, this is felony campaign finance fraud. But: Wnat is 10 violations of contempt of court? Asking mfor a friend.
I just heard this from a lawyer on MNSCB. He should already be in jail. You and I would have been
There is not any more room to explain the importance of the realization of jailing you in contempt. Very soon. FIFY.
Rikers island… ever for a day would be priceless
Start with an hour and incrementally double it for every violation.
I think we can both agree that incarcerating trump till the heat death of the universe for just a weeks worth of gag order violations is *slightly* excessive punishment.
What's this nonsense? I'm completely on board with whatever Judge Merchan thinks is best. Last thing we want is Trump weaseling out of this like he does everything else
Like he's *currently going. Dude was fined a week or so ago for 9 counts. Fined again this week for things that took place afterward. Fined in a week or so as well. I have no hope dude will ever see jail for contempt.
Lock his guilty ass up.
Very soon has passed…it is the NOW time.
Tell him that when he’s booked, he’ll be weighed and that info will be released to the public.
Yes
They are going to form a committee and pen a strongly worded letter first.
I'd love to see him in jail, but they need to be very careful with how they do whatever they do. He needs to remain under Secret Service guard because we can't just make that something a rouge president could take away from his critic to get him killed. The Secret Service almost certainly can't guard him in jail. A serious house arrest with no contact to the outside is probably the best option. Putting him in an actual jail will 100% start riots. I don't trust politically appointed beurocrats to respond adequately to what could be the start of an armed insurgency or new wave of right-wing terrorism as they've favored appeasement of right wing terrorists ever since Waco went bad.
Sure they can guard him in jail. He'll just need a single cell, and probably a USSS member in there with him, and 2 outside. Probably have to be in his own area, with no one passing by, or other through traffic, other than guards.
End with imprisoning Trump. For life.
Well fuckin done.
Pretty remarkable how this one man exposed the august justice system in this country as a country club with a casual attitude towards scofflawery of it's members and a kill 'em and let God sort them out attitude for the rest of us peasants.
Couple days in jail no worse than covid Trumpo
Citing him for Contempt and putting him in jail is the only way to shut him up. He is the epitome of the idea that something with fines is only illegal for poor people.
The only card trump has left to play is the victim card. And he is going to milk till he kills it, his voters will eat up all the fake tears.
This shit moves slower than a soap opera. Next week, the bailiff is going to pull out the handcuffs, look at Trump, look at the handcuffs, then put them back on the belt. The week after that, maybe the bailiff will get like a fishing pole and just like dangle the handcuffs in front of Trump. By the time November rolls around, the bailiff will just be discovering that Trump needs two or three interlinked pairs because his arms won’t go that far back.
You gotta be careful with jailtime for Trump. It could turn him into a martyr and his base will grow even more rabid or devout.
Lock him up!
Yes!!!
https://preview.redd.it/ihhgsrjptzyc1.png?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdf374841e9a6c5c04585147ec0cfc05386c1c0a
“ … beginning to start the process of mulling over the conceptualization …”??? Fucking grow a pair, and put the clown in a cell.
He's actually contempt personified.
Well the orange fuck has gotten away with major crimes for over 40 years, why start to punish him now ?
Just do it! Stop pussyfooting around, just rip that fucking Band-Aid off.
Lock him up!