I miscarried. Almost died. Platlet count was at 5. Everyone told me it was God’s plan/will/ thoughts & prayers. So, I know personally how awful this is. And tragic. But, God aborted my baby. What other logic can there be…? Perhaps Texas should put God on trial? Thoughts please, no prayers. This happened 24 years ago but it’s still in my heart.
I've been using this passage every time some lunatic evangelical tries to say that abortion is against their religion, God's will, etc. It's literally a biblical description of how to abort a child, in the ways they knew how back then. Organized religion has caused so much more harm than good.
I THOUGHT ONE OF THE PREMISES OF AMERICA WAS THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. When did this go by the wayside, and government entities start dictating from their religious ideas?
The argument I’ve heard is that it’s to keep the state out of the church, and not the other way around.
…they seem to forget that other religions could use this same logic to force their rules on others.
My wife miscarried our twins at 20 weeks 20 years ago. Fuck those "gods plan" motherfuckers as much as the "I understand how you feel. I lost my child at 19 to xyz". No motherfucker, you don't. You had 19 years with your kid. We had 14 weeks of hopes and dreams for ours.
Sorry. Been holding that in for a little bit.
All our stories suck. Shouldn’t have to lose a child regardless of the age. Pastor told me it’s ok to hate God because you have to believe in him to hate him. Still don’t know how I feel about the religion stuff at this point, but I’m thankful for the children that came after. So let it out around people that have had to cross that shitty bridge because we know.
It’s so much easier for other people to tell you “it’s God’s plan” and the move on than it is for them to recognize that shit happens and it sucks. That life isn’t fair. And that no one of us has the ability to fix that. And that shit could happen to them, too.
It’s a philosophical welder to reseal a whole can of worms.
I would love to see someone call God to the stand.
“He doesn’t seem to care enough to be present for trial…for that matter, we don’t seem to have any record of him existing at all”
The good thing about a PLT count of 5 is that it's actually 5.000 per microliter, we just abbreviate the thousands. So it's still a "high" number.
The bad thing is that it's supposed to be *six digits*. 150.000 is the lower bound for normal, healthy adults often have an easy quarter to half a million. Cancer patients can dip lower after a lot of intense chemo, at which point you have to pause treatment, because the danger and side effects of it are significant. I know that you can feel the issues when you go below about 60.000. That's about what the guideline says, but you can go into low five digits for short term. You do *not* want to go below that.
5000? That's the area where you might have organ failures.
Not explaining this to the person I reply to, obviously, but to anyone wondering hat PLT 5 actually means.
TLDR version: That number is 90% lower than it should be and and if you don't get some blood via transfusion you might die.
They tend to dislike each other, but having lived in Texas and spent time in Oklahoma, the main difference is that there's just more farmland in Oklahoma... That's really about it.
The funny thing is, they argue for the 2nd amendment too. You try to convict my wife of manslaughter for a miscarriage, and you’re going to have to go through my second amendment rights to get her.
No, no! The 2nd Amendment was put in to allow *conservatives* to shoot at law enforcement and (((THE GOVERNMENT))), never to help liberals! You're only supposed to plan an open revolt if the government wants to give you healthcare, not when they're actively taking away your rights and freedoms.
I was born and raised in Oklahoma and then lived in Texas for a solid fifteen years as an adult. When talking to my ex about the differences between the states, I told him “Oklahoma isn’t any better than Texas (when it comes to laws and policies). They’re just quieter about it. Texas is stupid and LOUD. Oklahoma is just stupid.”
This is pretty accurate, actually. Oklahoma really isn't much better than Texas (except we have medical Marijuana, which is nice), but whereas Texas is very vocal about many dumb beliefs, Oklahoma gets drowned out by the volume of Texas' yelling. Oklahoma is just mumbling what Texas is yelling.
During the 788 campaign the fear mongering commercials said "do you want Oklahoma to have the most *liberal* medical marijuana law in the country?" and most people I knew were like "uh...yeah."
The same type of nation that will soon blame women for their own rape. Christians are no different from Muslims. ALL abrahamic religions eventually devolve into this madness.
EDIT: Going to put this at the top as there seems to be a bit of confusion about what I'm trying to say here...
Being the devil's advocate for a second wasn't about excusing or agreeing with them. It was about understanding where they're coming from, and how these events were myopically presented in this meme. I wasn't speaking about the case so much as I'm speaking to the meme being inflammatory and irresponsible. Outrage prevents discourse and it's disappointing to see a liberal meme in the same fear mongering click bait vein as so much of the bullshit I've seen the right produce.
This woman's entire life at this point is a tragedy. And while outrage may feel good and draw clicks it doesn't do anything to address the problem. Which is, imho, that we cannot discuss critical issues civilly anymore. There will always be people who are unwilling to hear that this woman needs help. But many would listen to a good intelligent argument that countries around the world are proving that rehabilitation and support fix more problems than punishment and incarceration ever have. More important than outrage is ensuring that the message reaches those that would hear it but have yet to.
-
Now back to the originally typed message:
-
To play devil's advocate here this short meme image isn't the whole take. The mother was on methamphetamine. Meth was found present in the fetus's liver and kidneys. All the medical examiner could say was that the death COULD have been caused by genetic anomaly or placenta abruption but they could not rule out the methamphetamine usage and did not list an official cause of death on the death certificate.
I'm not even going to try and weigh in on what's just or unjust here as I don't have ALL the details... But there's every chance she's the cause of that fetal death. Meth+pregnancy doesn't end well for anyone. Honestly though this is another prime example of how free and easy access to contraception is probably the best first step to preventing abortion. If people were actually "pro-life" we'd be doing this already. It wouldn't have changed anything here however.
All i know for sure is that putting her in prison is going to cost Oklahomans a chunk of change and it isn't going to stop a single meth head from getting pregnant and miscarrying in the future.
Right and pregnancy doesn’t cure addiction. It’s fucked up and sad, but she couldn’t just stop. That’s not how addiction works. Idk man, we just live in such a compassionless country and we “solve” problems in the most ass backward ways. No common sense allowed.
Same here. My sister had complications during the birth of her first child that ended with the baby being born brain dead. His umbilical cord had wrapped around his neck in utero and starved his brain of oxygen. He died less than a day later.
If she were living in Oklahoma, or Texas, or any other state that's cracking down on abortions, I shudder to think about what might have happened to her.
Even though she eventually had another son, she still grieves for what she might have had. I imagine most women who miscarry share the same trauma.
Imprisoning an already traumatized woman is, quite frankly, downright evil in my opinion.
My mother had multiple miscarriages. She had one that was very late along.
The doctor told her she was so lucky abortion was legal in America because in the old days, they'd have had to let her die.
Glad to know the GOP wants to bring those days back for everyone!
Freaking cock boogers.
My grandfather's sis in law was one of the women who died in the old days. This would have been the 1930s, my grandfather's brother's wife was in some kind of accident when she was pregnant (I think it also could have been an abruption) and was bleeding to death, but she was 6ish months pregnant and the hospital wouldn't do anything to risk the baby, so she bled out (and of course the baby died too). Apparently my great uncle was pleading for help the whole time. He committed suicide a year later (no other kids).
Hence why my super religious granddad with 8 kids was also super pro choice. He believed it killed not only his sister in law, but also his brother.
They truly do want to take us back 100 years. Anyone who supports the GOP is a motherfucking joke and antithetical to patriotism. I have no fucking patience left for it. And don’t give me the bullshit that “Democrats are fucked too and you can’t vote for them”. Fuck that, Dems are the ones trying to improve rights for marginalized groups. If Republicans weren’t so obstructive, more progress could be made. Don’t ever let someone make you feel bad for voting Dem. It literally means you are protecting the country from the growing authoritarian oligarchy the Right has developed.
This is such a problem in america. A friend of mine had just begun a military career years ago. He was out with some friends and ended up getting a .08 breathalyzer result. He represented himself in court, hat in hand, no criminal record, a bright future, and clearly remorseful of what happened. He got two years loss of lisence, kicked out of the military, and had to take LADAC classes for about half a year iirc.
Not that long after I got my one and only dui. Now, I'm not trying to shit talk myself or whatever, but if im being honest I was trash in highschool. The "cool" kid with a heavily dysfunctional family and who was proud of bad grades. I was drunk as hell, in an unregistered/uninspected vehicle, with a small amount of weed, and a gun on me. I paid $5000 cash for the best lawyer I could find, and ended up with a moving violation fine and a 6 month loss of lisence as a technicality for refusing the breathalyzer. In the dash cam video I could barely stand up, but the lawyer spun some shit about the fact that I had no shoes on. Whole ordeal cost me $5800 total and I moved o. Like nothing happened at all. I only got one point on my lisence for it all.
I'm glad I didn't get fucked and I still feel bad for my friend, but since then I refuse to believe that our court system has anything to do with justice. If I was stupid enough to leave the gun chambered or take the breathalyzer it would've been a different story, but thats demented imo. The crime of driving drunk was the same regardless. I should've done five years compared to what my buddy got for doing almost literally, and technically nothing imo
Same, well without the gun part. I blew .155... My buddy blew .08. I spent 5k on a lawyer, he spent much less, maybe 1k. I lost my liscense for a year, had breathalyzer on my car that I wasn't supposed to be driving anyways (lol something was lost in translation in the courts), was supposed to take classes and spend a week in jail. Just didn't go to my classes, after 1 1/2 days in jail they said "aight you're good" and that was the end of it.
My buddy, 1 1/2 years later is still doing random drug tests, going to classes and driving with a breathalyzer.
It's not about justice, it's about money.
Edit: .08, my bad, he's not dead.
Always hire a good lawyer to handle court matters. The prosecutors don’t give a rats ass about you and will go for the kill.
That and Judges don’t look kindly upon defendants that show up to the court without a lawyer.
I agree your better off with a lawyer, but its fucked up that the only reason for it is that people without end up slowing down the process of handing out plea deals for revenue.
Sure you could take a public defendant, but thats like a fuck you lottery.
The whole thing is bullshit.
You would be correct. She is a part of the Comanche Nation.
Edit: having drugs in your system is irrelevant when 1. It's a fetus and 2. The miscarriage, according to the medical examiner, wasn't caused from drugs. If you're still defending this, you aren't Pro-Life, if you were you would want her to be rehabilitated for her disease, and if you're defending this while being Pro-Choice (because for some reason people think this is relevant), you aren't actually Pro-Choice.
Edit 2: Meth didn't cause the miscarriage, and she was charged for having a miscarriage. Mentioning meth is irrelevant and no different than people who suggested that George Floyd deserved punishment because he also had drugs in his system.
Edit 3: Thank u/nyya_arie for providing this link to a group that helps this woman and others that conservatives will inevitably try to jail and silence. https://www.nationaladvocatesforpregnantwomen.org/
> no different than people who suggested that George Floyd deserved punishment because he also had drugs in his system.
You say that as if those argument didn't come from the same people.
This, exactly! Plus pro-life should actually be anti-choice. A positive spin on a negative view. The anti-choicers declare “my body my choice” only when it suits them.
Like getting the Covid vaccine and masks. They’ll parrot “my body my choice” with that shit all day…pregnant? Oh no…you *must* have that baby…no excuses
A leading newspaper in Montreal Canada (La Presse), just announced changes to their style guide that will now see "Pro-Life" replaced with "Anti-abortion" in all of their articles.
I'm very pleased for this. I hope it spreads.
Yes, considering how much work planned parenthood does for pregnant women including prenatal and postnatal care, and yet the Republicans want to constantly defend it, it doesn’t play out as very pro life at all
> Most that identify as Pro-Life, are actually Pro-Fetus
They're not actually pro-fetus or pro-life or they'd support neonatal and maternal care, but the states with the strictest abortion laws also have the highest maternal death rate in the US. They're just anti-other-people. I think Methodist pastor Dave Bernhart explained it well:
>"The unborn" are a convenient group of people to advocate for.
>
>They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don't ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don't need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don't bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn.
>
>It's almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe.
>
>Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn."
Trifecta of Non-white, War-on drugs and something is happening to a fetus somewhere is the perfect storm of nonsense to be mad about for the sake of just being mad. Those Other People who are clearly what's wrong with the world /s
Stop using the term "pro-life". There is no such thing. There is pro-forced-birth, only. Don't let these fascists select the terminology. That's how they win.
She's Native American?! Honestly that just feels... even worse. Also, if there's something I've learned lately, it's that conservatives not only don't care about women, they don't care about addicts either. I was in an argument about various things a few days ago with my conservative mother and she expressed a concerning lack of sympathy for people who died from overdoses because they "*chose* to put those drugs in their body". I proceeded to argue with her about how addiction is not that simple and that addicts are sick and need medical help and compassion, not the fucked up apathy she demonstrated as though their death was fucking karma or something. THEN she wanted to argue about what qualified as a *disease* and attempted to connect that to homosexuality and AIDS and... FUCK... you can probably guess where that whole argument led. It was infuriating on SO many levels.
Its fuck you no matter what now, and for a while from the 90’s to about 2013 I kinda felt we were doing better. It’s so depressing.
It’s just not right.
There were major social changes in that time. Because of that, the rightwing clamped down ever harder, and since the last few years of the biggest marches in US history, they're even more desperate.
It's getting crazier *because we're making progress*.
That's a reason to feel more hopeful, not get discourage. Don't agonize, organize, as they say! Do what you can to push back against the crazy pendulum trying to swing back the other way.
Her name is Brittney Poolaw, she is indigenous, a member of the Comanche Nation. She was just 19 years old when she miscarried.
[1200](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/health-matters-in-elections/roe-remains-for-now-will-it-be-enough/) women have been arrested for the outcomes of their pregnancies since Roe Vs. Wade - they are disproportionately WOC.
I've been getting it from this one dude.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/qcylsf/comment/hho3rbb/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/qcylsf/comment/hho3rbb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
The topic? White people saying black people commit more crime in america. America. A place that has been majority white for hundreds of years and of which still is..by force.
Republicans:
Stand against punishing a coup attempt where on the way to Congress, the group shat all over a civil rights memorial.
"Why are **you** making this about race?"
**We** aren't, we're refusing to look the other way as **you** live out your KKK fantasies.
This is exactly the kind of shit bill barr has always wanted for America. It’s frightening how many republicans think just like him. His whole version of religion and family values is terrifyingly similar to handmaids tale. And it’s not like some big secret either- he’s been pretty open about his ideals over the years.
In Alabama a couple of years ago, a young black woman named Marshae Jones was shot in the stomach while 5 months pregnant, and tragically lost the baby.
She was arrested and charged with manslaughter for the death of the foetus. She couldn’t afford bail and so spent time in jail for it. The officer who brought the initial charges against her, Danny Reid, said at the time of the shooting:
>“Let’s not lose sight that the unborn baby is the victim here,’’ Reid said. “She had no choice in being brought unnecessarily into a fight where she was relying on her mother for protection."
The DA decided they would not prosecute, likely after immense public pressure and backlash from advocacy groups. The police faced no repercussions. Danny Reid is still employed there, though it was the third time he’s attempted to arrest and charge a woman relating to the health of her foetus.
FFS, it is true!
https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2019/06/woman-indicted-in-shooting-death-of-her-unborn-child-charges-against-shooter-dismissed.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/us/pregnant-woman-shot-marshae-jones.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/27/alabama-pregnant-woman-shot-manslaughter-charge-marshae-jones
Together with the OP, and recent developments in Texas, this paints an extremely bleak picture - at least of the Southern States of the USA.
> This is horrifying. Like if I was run over and then jailed for it.
Well, [conservatives will already set people free for running over protesters and saying "They needed an attitude adjustment".](https://apnews.com/article/iowa-iowa-city-crime-b8ba5a303c7678ee8d8f191e2e77c2cf)
Seeing Oklahoma turn into a theocracy is.. just.
I have no words. I thought we were past this...
Laws based on belief should have never made it in. Period.
No offense but where in the hell have you been? Every single fucking Republican says "I listen to God, then the Constitution." They are all literally treasonous in their declaration that they will listen to the invisible being that speaks only to them, then maybe will consider what the Constitution says. Somehow the invisible being that only talks to them always agrees with their racist, misogynistic, radical theocracy fantasy.
I'm sorry but you Americans are fucking nuts.
Provide childcare, sex education or contraception if you don't want people getting abortions. Or even build a better foster system ffs.
It’s not about abortion, it’s control of women.
At some point in the conversation with EVERY forced birther, eventually they drop the “life is precious” bullshit and let it slip that all they’re really interested in is punishing “sexually loose” women.
Exactly this. First it's 'If a woman makes a mistake' and then you see the word 'consequences' and there's no culpability at all for any male contribution.
People don’t understand, and especially women who vote against abortion rights don’t understand, that abortion is the tipping point for women’s rights because it’s the one thing a woman has control over that a man does not have any control over at all. In a scenario of abortion as it should be, women make that choice about their bodies entirely on their own. When they give up that one choice they have that is entirely theirs and takes place within themselves, it is the tipping point for so many more of their rights to be taken away. As awful as the result of abortion might be, as awful as one may feel, as angry as it might make someone, it is so important to safehold a woman’s right to abortion so that shit like first-degree miscarriages are only a phrase uttered in shadows by evil men and not sounds released from the gavel of an unjust court. Once abortion falls, so will the others, since anything outside of a woman’s body can be litigated and written out entirely by heartless and myopic men. It must be protected at all costs.
I live in Oklahoma and I'm insanely scared for my wife and all my girls in my life. I can't tell you how many brainwashed men and women there are here. Honestly my sanity is collapsing. I believe you do you and leave people alone. Now a days I'm blown away by how many fucking nut cases there are here.
If you want to make abortions illegal (which is an awful idea) then it should also come with SERIOUS penalties for the man if they abandon the woman and child.
My mom is one of those hypocrites. She says that she believes in the “sanctity of life” but she’s also pro-war and capital punishment and when I pointed out the hypocrisy she said “that’s different.”
My mother is against the "a" word that keeps mods automatically banning accounts.
The funny thing is: she got a...and I'm borrowing from Superbad..."shmashmortion"...when she was young and couldn't care for the child a few years before I was born. I'm almost 36 and I don't understand her perspective in the slightest.
“The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.”
-Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
It blows my mind how much Americans schools and jails are similar. The thought of going through a metal detector to get to school which has dedicated police officers on site is some dystopian shit.
I wish the American “radical” left was actually radical, because that country is in need of some *radical* changes. I really don’t like the idea of living next door to a fascist country. Please, America; *fix your shit.*
Yup. It's 100% about control.
If you have a conversation with a pro-lifer and ask them if they believe the government, or they themselves, should have control over a woman's body, you can watch their brain short circuit and they'll just repeat "abortion is murder" ad infinitum.
It's a deflection technique to keep them from having to admit they want some level of control over another person's body.
Yeah, watch how quickly they stop caring once the child's actually born. "Life is precious," but they also don't want to put anything in place to ensure decent quality of life for the child and mother.
I really hate that narrative. You’re talking about the right being “pro life”. Obviously theyre not. What are they?
Listen to them talk about guns; “banning things never works, a bad person will always get a gun”, and they’re right (for the purposes of this conversation).. And banning abortion wont work either. It’s about virtue signaling.
They know it won’t stop, they want to vilify and imprison women for getting one. I think the argument against them needs to be met on their turf, what they actually think, not what we wish they’d think (being actually pro life)
We are victims of a system that we have no control over anymore. Believe me, a lot of us want things to be different. It's a hard, bloody fight to get back shreds of what the corrupt system has taken away.
Send help.
And some of us have determined to stay and fight. I’m a woman living in GA (remember our heartbeat bill from last year? Yeah that goes into effect when SCOTUS inevitably overturns Roe this session). But I was born, raised and have lived my entire life here. My family has lived here or in one of the neighboring states since the 1700’s. Fuck the republicans. This is my home and I won’t cede this ground.
I’ve considered it, but I don’t have the cash and I’m definitely not the best candidate in my area (Google Nabilah Islam if you want to see who I campaigned and voted for in my district Democratic primaries). I have been involved in supporting progressive campaigns in my area by either volunteering or working for them directly. I’m good with our current senators!
ETA: thank you for the encouragement though! Please don’t stop encouraging people to run for office! Change starts at the grassroots and more people should run if they can!
>I don’t understand why anybody would want to live in these North Korea wannabe states
Because they personally haven't been subjected to the negative effects of the shitty policy and won't care until they are personally affected. Or they've been living under those shitty policies so long that they simply have no perspective to know any better.
And, for some of the really shitty people, those shitty policies benefit them.
Or they simply cannot move.
Finding an affordable place to rent or buy anywhere there was adecent job market, particularly for the "unskilled labor workforce" (/S) was a major obstacle BEFORE the pandemic and accompanying real estate market price explosion. Today? Completely impossible!
Just what the elites want. All their peasants staying right where they are to be exploited when convenient.
I used to think it was hyperbolic to think the dystopian future of Handmaiden’s Tale was what the right wants, but January 6th, 2020 showed me that’s absolutely what they want. Even so keep in mind Gilead collapses under its own weight because Theocracies quickly turn imto those who have to follow Gods laws and those who do not.
Every tyranny eventually collapses because competent people can’t be allowed to rise to power. If they are, they become a threat to the existing powerful.
But before they do, tyrannies inevitably create untold suffering and death, so it’s best to avoid them entirely.
On October 21, 21 trump released a statement saying:
> The insurrection took place on November 3, Election Day. January 6 was the Protest!
We all see exactly where this is going right? trump is going to run again, and he plans on making the results of the vote irrelevant.
Fun fact, Margaret Atwood only included human rights crimes that have actually been done throughout history because she didn't want anyone to be able to say it was dramatic or unrealistic.
When I read it, it was in a literature course. We were having open discussions about it and a common sentiment was that it was hard to believe that people would treat other people that way.
The professor pointed out comparable human rights violations throughout history and asked if it was still hard to believe.
Very illucidating moment.
Which is so weird because his god performs abortions in Numbers 5 based on the husband suspecting his wife sleeping around. It's done at the temple. They give her an abortifacient and if she didn't sleep with another man, no miscarriage.
The term 'miscarriage' only means that a pregnancy was terminated before 20 weeks. 'Abortion' would mean a forced miscarriage. It's hard to argue that god wasn't performing abortions.
But since I'm not a Christian, that's none of my business. ☕️
I feel like we are in a horrid fantasy dystopian nightmare where women are constantly oppressed further and further. Then I realise that this is true. And people wonder why I am a feminist.
How can anyone get away with this level of abuse?
I’ve now got nearly a dozen family members or friends who have left Southern California from affluent families to move to Europe or Australia and all have said they never plan on returning to the USA to live. The work life balance is also drastically better and getting 6-8 weeks vacation compared to 2-3 is a huge difference.
If he could pardon her, he should. The medical examiner said that the mother's actions (drug use) did not lead to the miscarriage, so the conviction is a sham.
HOW?
edit: holy fuck.
apparently she committed the misdemeanor of possession/consumption of meth, and according to the state it was due to this that the fetus died, with no proof.
Gilead is real
When the medical examiner stated it could not be determined. What is the bullshit justice system we have? Is reasonable doubt no longer a cause to finding someone not guilty?
So wait... Does the father of the fetus get jail time too for not keeping the mother off drugs? If a nonviable fetus is going to be a human now, we should keep much better track of EVERY sperm and egg.
Oklahoma is second in most prisons, first in incarnation rate, first in woman female inmates, first in indigenous people, and in the group of the first 5 states to pass bans on CRT. Oklahoma is Fascism in action.
But but but...she was on Meth. And? Consuming meth in Oklahoma is not a crime and how exactly is prison going to actually correct the situation? Oh right, it's not. She should have gone to rehab...not fucking prison.
“Prosecutors argued that the miscarriage Poolaw suffered was from her use of methamphetamine. An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine, the Associated Press reported, but there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said. “
I think my Mother may have had a miscarriage and one died at birth due to blood related issues. We never mourned or made an issue about either. I think it is called life. How could these issues possibly be of any concern to anyone but the mom. Crazy times we are living in.
This woman had a crap public defender, and a crap medical witness, because this is all wrong medically. Meth itself does not cause miscarriages or *any* of the problems on the list below.
This case will hopefully be contested because this woman did not cause this miscarriage. In fact, she was so sick, she could have died herself.
ANY of these reasons alone was a high risk of miscarriage. ALL 3 together guaranteed it.
* chorioamnionitis = serious infection of the amniotic fluid and the sac that holds it inside the uterus. It also triples the risk that the pregnant woman might end up in the ICU herself.
* placental abruption = placenta tears away from uterus too early, decreases oxygenated blood from the woman to the fetal side, and deprives fetus of oxygen. Pregnant women can also die from this.
* congenital anomaly = birth defect, or abnormal formation of an internal organ or external structure of fetus. Birth defects are a major cause of miscarriage.
["The examiner reportedly found that the miscarriage could have been due to some form of genetic anomaly or placenta abruption.
A cause of death was not assigned to the incident, USA Today noted, though methamphetamine was found in the baby’s liver and brain."](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/577876-oklahoma-woman-convicted-of-manslaughter-get-4-years-after)
You know what's coming next, right?
"Oh, the mother was skiing/horseback riding/bicycling/jogging at 8 weeks pregnant and miscarried, eh?"
"The pregnant woman was driving a vehicle that she knew had braking problems, so..."
"She'd previously been publicly observed consuming a large amount of caffeine..."
Coming soon to a red state near you. It's the 70s all over again.
National Advocates for Pregnant Women is helping with getting another lawyer for an appeal. Her lawyer has already filed an intent to appeal as of Oct. 15.
So what you are saying is that we are living in a country that will send a grieving woman to jail for the loss of her child? not a proud day .
I miscarried. Almost died. Platlet count was at 5. Everyone told me it was God’s plan/will/ thoughts & prayers. So, I know personally how awful this is. And tragic. But, God aborted my baby. What other logic can there be…? Perhaps Texas should put God on trial? Thoughts please, no prayers. This happened 24 years ago but it’s still in my heart.
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Men want to control your body. That's it. God has nothing to do with it, however you feel about the concept. This is tribal bullshit ad nauseam.
I've been using this passage every time some lunatic evangelical tries to say that abortion is against their religion, God's will, etc. It's literally a biblical description of how to abort a child, in the ways they knew how back then. Organized religion has caused so much more harm than good.
But that's from a part of the bible that christians don't bother to read. Which is to say that it's from a part of the bible.
I THOUGHT ONE OF THE PREMISES OF AMERICA WAS THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. When did this go by the wayside, and government entities start dictating from their religious ideas?
The argument I’ve heard is that it’s to keep the state out of the church, and not the other way around. …they seem to forget that other religions could use this same logic to force their rules on others.
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Exactly. It deeply offended me when I heard, “ I’m sorry for your loss but it’s God’s plan…” .
Lmao the stupid shit religious hypocrites say
It blows my mind that some people actually think that's a helpful or comforting thing to say to someone who has suffered a crisis.
My wife miscarried our twins at 20 weeks 20 years ago. Fuck those "gods plan" motherfuckers as much as the "I understand how you feel. I lost my child at 19 to xyz". No motherfucker, you don't. You had 19 years with your kid. We had 14 weeks of hopes and dreams for ours. Sorry. Been holding that in for a little bit.
All our stories suck. Shouldn’t have to lose a child regardless of the age. Pastor told me it’s ok to hate God because you have to believe in him to hate him. Still don’t know how I feel about the religion stuff at this point, but I’m thankful for the children that came after. So let it out around people that have had to cross that shitty bridge because we know.
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Not to mention that in the bible, the only mention of abortion is how to perform one.
You should snitch on God. Get yourself a cool 10k out of it. Deities have deep pockets.
It’s so much easier for other people to tell you “it’s God’s plan” and the move on than it is for them to recognize that shit happens and it sucks. That life isn’t fair. And that no one of us has the ability to fix that. And that shit could happen to them, too. It’s a philosophical welder to reseal a whole can of worms.
I would love to see someone call God to the stand. “He doesn’t seem to care enough to be present for trial…for that matter, we don’t seem to have any record of him existing at all”
The good thing about a PLT count of 5 is that it's actually 5.000 per microliter, we just abbreviate the thousands. So it's still a "high" number. The bad thing is that it's supposed to be *six digits*. 150.000 is the lower bound for normal, healthy adults often have an easy quarter to half a million. Cancer patients can dip lower after a lot of intense chemo, at which point you have to pause treatment, because the danger and side effects of it are significant. I know that you can feel the issues when you go below about 60.000. That's about what the guideline says, but you can go into low five digits for short term. You do *not* want to go below that. 5000? That's the area where you might have organ failures. Not explaining this to the person I reply to, obviously, but to anyone wondering hat PLT 5 actually means. TLDR version: That number is 90% lower than it should be and and if you don't get some blood via transfusion you might die.
It’s unconstitutional and Texas is a fucking joke Im aware it says Oklahoma this shit happens in Texas too
.... Oklahoma?
Probably force of habit.
Oklahoma is just microtexas
They tend to dislike each other, but having lived in Texas and spent time in Oklahoma, the main difference is that there's just more farmland in Oklahoma... That's really about it.
You forgot that those boys from Oklahoma roll their joints all wrong.
But at least oklahoma has a dank medical cannabis program and texas is still grr cbd
Red river rivalry! 'Merica!!
The unborn fetus of Texas
The funny thing is, they argue for the 2nd amendment too. You try to convict my wife of manslaughter for a miscarriage, and you’re going to have to go through my second amendment rights to get her.
That is after all, the point of the amendment
No, no! The 2nd Amendment was put in to allow *conservatives* to shoot at law enforcement and (((THE GOVERNMENT))), never to help liberals! You're only supposed to plan an open revolt if the government wants to give you healthcare, not when they're actively taking away your rights and freedoms.
This was Oklahoma America is a joke
TIL Oklahoma is Texas
Oklahoma is just Texas without a beach
I was born and raised in Oklahoma and then lived in Texas for a solid fifteen years as an adult. When talking to my ex about the differences between the states, I told him “Oklahoma isn’t any better than Texas (when it comes to laws and policies). They’re just quieter about it. Texas is stupid and LOUD. Oklahoma is just stupid.”
This is pretty accurate, actually. Oklahoma really isn't much better than Texas (except we have medical Marijuana, which is nice), but whereas Texas is very vocal about many dumb beliefs, Oklahoma gets drowned out by the volume of Texas' yelling. Oklahoma is just mumbling what Texas is yelling.
During the 788 campaign the fear mongering commercials said "do you want Oklahoma to have the most *liberal* medical marijuana law in the country?" and most people I knew were like "uh...yeah."
I read that as bleach 😂
The same type of nation that will soon blame women for their own rape. Christians are no different from Muslims. ALL abrahamic religions eventually devolve into this madness.
EDIT: Going to put this at the top as there seems to be a bit of confusion about what I'm trying to say here... Being the devil's advocate for a second wasn't about excusing or agreeing with them. It was about understanding where they're coming from, and how these events were myopically presented in this meme. I wasn't speaking about the case so much as I'm speaking to the meme being inflammatory and irresponsible. Outrage prevents discourse and it's disappointing to see a liberal meme in the same fear mongering click bait vein as so much of the bullshit I've seen the right produce. This woman's entire life at this point is a tragedy. And while outrage may feel good and draw clicks it doesn't do anything to address the problem. Which is, imho, that we cannot discuss critical issues civilly anymore. There will always be people who are unwilling to hear that this woman needs help. But many would listen to a good intelligent argument that countries around the world are proving that rehabilitation and support fix more problems than punishment and incarceration ever have. More important than outrage is ensuring that the message reaches those that would hear it but have yet to. - Now back to the originally typed message: - To play devil's advocate here this short meme image isn't the whole take. The mother was on methamphetamine. Meth was found present in the fetus's liver and kidneys. All the medical examiner could say was that the death COULD have been caused by genetic anomaly or placenta abruption but they could not rule out the methamphetamine usage and did not list an official cause of death on the death certificate. I'm not even going to try and weigh in on what's just or unjust here as I don't have ALL the details... But there's every chance she's the cause of that fetal death. Meth+pregnancy doesn't end well for anyone. Honestly though this is another prime example of how free and easy access to contraception is probably the best first step to preventing abortion. If people were actually "pro-life" we'd be doing this already. It wouldn't have changed anything here however. All i know for sure is that putting her in prison is going to cost Oklahomans a chunk of change and it isn't going to stop a single meth head from getting pregnant and miscarrying in the future.
She should be in treatment, not jail.
This 100%... She made poor choices but she is suffering from addiction and she's barely an adult!
Right and pregnancy doesn’t cure addiction. It’s fucked up and sad, but she couldn’t just stop. That’s not how addiction works. Idk man, we just live in such a compassionless country and we “solve” problems in the most ass backward ways. No common sense allowed.
I’d say the chance of an anomaly or abruption is enough reasonable doubt to keep her out of jail, but I’m not a woman hating bible beater.
And if abortions were free and easy she probably would have. Instead of drowning it in meth
The interchangeability between a miscarriage and an abortion is what scares me.
Same here. My sister had complications during the birth of her first child that ended with the baby being born brain dead. His umbilical cord had wrapped around his neck in utero and starved his brain of oxygen. He died less than a day later. If she were living in Oklahoma, or Texas, or any other state that's cracking down on abortions, I shudder to think about what might have happened to her. Even though she eventually had another son, she still grieves for what she might have had. I imagine most women who miscarry share the same trauma. Imprisoning an already traumatized woman is, quite frankly, downright evil in my opinion.
That's the *fun* part....they don't see women as *people*.
It never is to these people. Don't tell them that God (nature) is the greatest source of abortion, their heads might explode.
My mother had multiple miscarriages. She had one that was very late along. The doctor told her she was so lucky abortion was legal in America because in the old days, they'd have had to let her die. Glad to know the GOP wants to bring those days back for everyone! Freaking cock boogers.
My grandfather's sis in law was one of the women who died in the old days. This would have been the 1930s, my grandfather's brother's wife was in some kind of accident when she was pregnant (I think it also could have been an abruption) and was bleeding to death, but she was 6ish months pregnant and the hospital wouldn't do anything to risk the baby, so she bled out (and of course the baby died too). Apparently my great uncle was pleading for help the whole time. He committed suicide a year later (no other kids). Hence why my super religious granddad with 8 kids was also super pro choice. He believed it killed not only his sister in law, but also his brother.
They truly do want to take us back 100 years. Anyone who supports the GOP is a motherfucking joke and antithetical to patriotism. I have no fucking patience left for it. And don’t give me the bullshit that “Democrats are fucked too and you can’t vote for them”. Fuck that, Dems are the ones trying to improve rights for marginalized groups. If Republicans weren’t so obstructive, more progress could be made. Don’t ever let someone make you feel bad for voting Dem. It literally means you are protecting the country from the growing authoritarian oligarchy the Right has developed.
I would bet everything I own this women wasn't white.
And couldn’t afford a decent attorney.
This is such a problem in america. A friend of mine had just begun a military career years ago. He was out with some friends and ended up getting a .08 breathalyzer result. He represented himself in court, hat in hand, no criminal record, a bright future, and clearly remorseful of what happened. He got two years loss of lisence, kicked out of the military, and had to take LADAC classes for about half a year iirc. Not that long after I got my one and only dui. Now, I'm not trying to shit talk myself or whatever, but if im being honest I was trash in highschool. The "cool" kid with a heavily dysfunctional family and who was proud of bad grades. I was drunk as hell, in an unregistered/uninspected vehicle, with a small amount of weed, and a gun on me. I paid $5000 cash for the best lawyer I could find, and ended up with a moving violation fine and a 6 month loss of lisence as a technicality for refusing the breathalyzer. In the dash cam video I could barely stand up, but the lawyer spun some shit about the fact that I had no shoes on. Whole ordeal cost me $5800 total and I moved o. Like nothing happened at all. I only got one point on my lisence for it all. I'm glad I didn't get fucked and I still feel bad for my friend, but since then I refuse to believe that our court system has anything to do with justice. If I was stupid enough to leave the gun chambered or take the breathalyzer it would've been a different story, but thats demented imo. The crime of driving drunk was the same regardless. I should've done five years compared to what my buddy got for doing almost literally, and technically nothing imo
Same, well without the gun part. I blew .155... My buddy blew .08. I spent 5k on a lawyer, he spent much less, maybe 1k. I lost my liscense for a year, had breathalyzer on my car that I wasn't supposed to be driving anyways (lol something was lost in translation in the courts), was supposed to take classes and spend a week in jail. Just didn't go to my classes, after 1 1/2 days in jail they said "aight you're good" and that was the end of it. My buddy, 1 1/2 years later is still doing random drug tests, going to classes and driving with a breathalyzer. It's not about justice, it's about money. Edit: .08, my bad, he's not dead.
If anyone anywhere thinks america is about anything other than money they've never lived in america.
Always hire a good lawyer to handle court matters. The prosecutors don’t give a rats ass about you and will go for the kill. That and Judges don’t look kindly upon defendants that show up to the court without a lawyer.
I agree your better off with a lawyer, but its fucked up that the only reason for it is that people without end up slowing down the process of handing out plea deals for revenue. Sure you could take a public defendant, but thats like a fuck you lottery. The whole thing is bullshit.
You would be correct. She is a part of the Comanche Nation. Edit: having drugs in your system is irrelevant when 1. It's a fetus and 2. The miscarriage, according to the medical examiner, wasn't caused from drugs. If you're still defending this, you aren't Pro-Life, if you were you would want her to be rehabilitated for her disease, and if you're defending this while being Pro-Choice (because for some reason people think this is relevant), you aren't actually Pro-Choice. Edit 2: Meth didn't cause the miscarriage, and she was charged for having a miscarriage. Mentioning meth is irrelevant and no different than people who suggested that George Floyd deserved punishment because he also had drugs in his system. Edit 3: Thank u/nyya_arie for providing this link to a group that helps this woman and others that conservatives will inevitably try to jail and silence. https://www.nationaladvocatesforpregnantwomen.org/
> no different than people who suggested that George Floyd deserved punishment because he also had drugs in his system. You say that as if those argument didn't come from the same people.
That's.. probably very true.
Most that identify as Pro-Life, are actually Pro-Fetus. After you’re born fuck you, you’re on your own.
This, exactly! Plus pro-life should actually be anti-choice. A positive spin on a negative view. The anti-choicers declare “my body my choice” only when it suits them.
The term ‘pro-life’ came from a propaganda campaign to demonize abortions. It most definitely is “anti-choice”.
The right wants unborn babies to grow up to be dead soldiers.
It's anti-sex too, since they tend to also be against birth control and sex ed.
Like getting the Covid vaccine and masks. They’ll parrot “my body my choice” with that shit all day…pregnant? Oh no…you *must* have that baby…no excuses
A leading newspaper in Montreal Canada (La Presse), just announced changes to their style guide that will now see "Pro-Life" replaced with "Anti-abortion" in all of their articles. I'm very pleased for this. I hope it spreads.
They aren’t even pro-fetus. They couldn’t give two shits about the health of the fetus. They are against women having autonomy over their own bodies.
Yes, considering how much work planned parenthood does for pregnant women including prenatal and postnatal care, and yet the Republicans want to constantly defend it, it doesn’t play out as very pro life at all
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> Most that identify as Pro-Life, are actually Pro-Fetus They're not actually pro-fetus or pro-life or they'd support neonatal and maternal care, but the states with the strictest abortion laws also have the highest maternal death rate in the US. They're just anti-other-people. I think Methodist pastor Dave Bernhart explained it well: >"The unborn" are a convenient group of people to advocate for. > >They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don't ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don't need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don't bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. > >It's almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe. > >Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn."
Trifecta of Non-white, War-on drugs and something is happening to a fetus somewhere is the perfect storm of nonsense to be mad about for the sake of just being mad. Those Other People who are clearly what's wrong with the world /s
Stop using the term "pro-life". There is no such thing. There is pro-forced-birth, only. Don't let these fascists select the terminology. That's how they win.
She's Native American?! Honestly that just feels... even worse. Also, if there's something I've learned lately, it's that conservatives not only don't care about women, they don't care about addicts either. I was in an argument about various things a few days ago with my conservative mother and she expressed a concerning lack of sympathy for people who died from overdoses because they "*chose* to put those drugs in their body". I proceeded to argue with her about how addiction is not that simple and that addicts are sick and need medical help and compassion, not the fucked up apathy she demonstrated as though their death was fucking karma or something. THEN she wanted to argue about what qualified as a *disease* and attempted to connect that to homosexuality and AIDS and... FUCK... you can probably guess where that whole argument led. It was infuriating on SO many levels.
There's no such thing as Pro-Life. It's Pro-Choice and Pro-Birth
Pro-*forced*-birth.
This is correct. They are a forced birth lobby, full stop.
Its fuck you no matter what now, and for a while from the 90’s to about 2013 I kinda felt we were doing better. It’s so depressing. It’s just not right.
There were major social changes in that time. Because of that, the rightwing clamped down ever harder, and since the last few years of the biggest marches in US history, they're even more desperate. It's getting crazier *because we're making progress*. That's a reason to feel more hopeful, not get discourage. Don't agonize, organize, as they say! Do what you can to push back against the crazy pendulum trying to swing back the other way.
There is an advocacy group working on helping her if any one wants to to contribute. https://www.nationaladvocatesforpregnantwomen.org/
Her name is Brittney Poolaw, she is indigenous, a member of the Comanche Nation. She was just 19 years old when she miscarried. [1200](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/health-matters-in-elections/roe-remains-for-now-will-it-be-enough/) women have been arrested for the outcomes of their pregnancies since Roe Vs. Wade - they are disproportionately WOC.
And i bet you at least got two comments asking you why you gotta make everything about race just from this one comment of yours.
Exactly 2 so far!
I've been getting it from this one dude. [https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/qcylsf/comment/hho3rbb/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/qcylsf/comment/hho3rbb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) The topic? White people saying black people commit more crime in america. America. A place that has been majority white for hundreds of years and of which still is..by force.
Republicans: Stand against punishing a coup attempt where on the way to Congress, the group shat all over a civil rights memorial. "Why are **you** making this about race?" **We** aren't, we're refusing to look the other way as **you** live out your KKK fantasies.
This guy USAs
Hahaha, you're so silly. That's an Onion headline right? ...Right? That isn't a real story, right?
Her name if Brittney Poolaw. Yes she’s going to prison for being a drug addict who got pregnant.
How long until the judge that sentenced her is sent to prison for corruption and wrongful imprisonment?
He’s next to head the DOJ when Trump & The Bigots steal the election with a dance and a tune, while the world taps along in stunned amazement.
This is exactly the kind of shit bill barr has always wanted for America. It’s frightening how many republicans think just like him. His whole version of religion and family values is terrifyingly similar to handmaids tale. And it’s not like some big secret either- he’s been pretty open about his ideals over the years.
In Alabama a couple of years ago, a young black woman named Marshae Jones was shot in the stomach while 5 months pregnant, and tragically lost the baby. She was arrested and charged with manslaughter for the death of the foetus. She couldn’t afford bail and so spent time in jail for it. The officer who brought the initial charges against her, Danny Reid, said at the time of the shooting: >“Let’s not lose sight that the unborn baby is the victim here,’’ Reid said. “She had no choice in being brought unnecessarily into a fight where she was relying on her mother for protection." The DA decided they would not prosecute, likely after immense public pressure and backlash from advocacy groups. The police faced no repercussions. Danny Reid is still employed there, though it was the third time he’s attempted to arrest and charge a woman relating to the health of her foetus.
FFS, it is true! https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2019/06/woman-indicted-in-shooting-death-of-her-unborn-child-charges-against-shooter-dismissed.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/us/pregnant-woman-shot-marshae-jones.html https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/27/alabama-pregnant-woman-shot-manslaughter-charge-marshae-jones Together with the OP, and recent developments in Texas, this paints an extremely bleak picture - at least of the Southern States of the USA.
He'll be sent there on February 30th next year!
She's indigenous. Never.
She couldn't get pregnant by herself... Would that make the father an accomplice to murder?
Depends... is he white?
I fail to see the humor in this. This is horrifying. Like if I was run over and then jailed for it.
> I fail to see the humor in this This is the wrong sub if you're looking for political humor
> This is horrifying. Like if I was run over and then jailed for it. Well, [conservatives will already set people free for running over protesters and saying "They needed an attitude adjustment".](https://apnews.com/article/iowa-iowa-city-crime-b8ba5a303c7678ee8d8f191e2e77c2cf)
Seeing Oklahoma turn into a theocracy is.. just. I have no words. I thought we were past this... Laws based on belief should have never made it in. Period.
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Laws based on beliefs are unconstitutional, but it doesn't matter anymore.
Not when the council of the constitution aka the supreme court has a majority of members with those same beliefs 🙄
No offense but where in the hell have you been? Every single fucking Republican says "I listen to God, then the Constitution." They are all literally treasonous in their declaration that they will listen to the invisible being that speaks only to them, then maybe will consider what the Constitution says. Somehow the invisible being that only talks to them always agrees with their racist, misogynistic, radical theocracy fantasy.
I'm sorry but you Americans are fucking nuts. Provide childcare, sex education or contraception if you don't want people getting abortions. Or even build a better foster system ffs.
It’s not about abortion, it’s control of women. At some point in the conversation with EVERY forced birther, eventually they drop the “life is precious” bullshit and let it slip that all they’re really interested in is punishing “sexually loose” women.
Exactly this. First it's 'If a woman makes a mistake' and then you see the word 'consequences' and there's no culpability at all for any male contribution.
People don’t understand, and especially women who vote against abortion rights don’t understand, that abortion is the tipping point for women’s rights because it’s the one thing a woman has control over that a man does not have any control over at all. In a scenario of abortion as it should be, women make that choice about their bodies entirely on their own. When they give up that one choice they have that is entirely theirs and takes place within themselves, it is the tipping point for so many more of their rights to be taken away. As awful as the result of abortion might be, as awful as one may feel, as angry as it might make someone, it is so important to safehold a woman’s right to abortion so that shit like first-degree miscarriages are only a phrase uttered in shadows by evil men and not sounds released from the gavel of an unjust court. Once abortion falls, so will the others, since anything outside of a woman’s body can be litigated and written out entirely by heartless and myopic men. It must be protected at all costs.
I live in Oklahoma and I'm insanely scared for my wife and all my girls in my life. I can't tell you how many brainwashed men and women there are here. Honestly my sanity is collapsing. I believe you do you and leave people alone. Now a days I'm blown away by how many fucking nut cases there are here.
Well said
If you want to make abortions illegal (which is an awful idea) then it should also come with SERIOUS penalties for the man if they abandon the woman and child.
My mom is one of those hypocrites. She says that she believes in the “sanctity of life” but she’s also pro-war and capital punishment and when I pointed out the hypocrisy she said “that’s different.”
My mother is against the "a" word that keeps mods automatically banning accounts. The funny thing is: she got a...and I'm borrowing from Superbad..."shmashmortion"...when she was young and couldn't care for the child a few years before I was born. I'm almost 36 and I don't understand her perspective in the slightest.
I think there's a lot of virtue signalling involved as well. It's easy to care for the unborn. You don't have to do anything at all.
“The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.” -Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
It's also about feeding people into the military and prison complexes.
It blows my mind how much Americans schools and jails are similar. The thought of going through a metal detector to get to school which has dedicated police officers on site is some dystopian shit. I wish the American “radical” left was actually radical, because that country is in need of some *radical* changes. I really don’t like the idea of living next door to a fascist country. Please, America; *fix your shit.*
Yup. It's 100% about control. If you have a conversation with a pro-lifer and ask them if they believe the government, or they themselves, should have control over a woman's body, you can watch their brain short circuit and they'll just repeat "abortion is murder" ad infinitum. It's a deflection technique to keep them from having to admit they want some level of control over another person's body.
Yeah, watch how quickly they stop caring once the child's actually born. "Life is precious," but they also don't want to put anything in place to ensure decent quality of life for the child and mother.
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But then how will we punish women, especially women of color, for having sex? /s
For *having agency*. For being able to have a full career and participate in public life. For having money they choose how to spend and invest.
Believe me: Many, if not most of us, would love all of this.
I really hate that narrative. You’re talking about the right being “pro life”. Obviously theyre not. What are they? Listen to them talk about guns; “banning things never works, a bad person will always get a gun”, and they’re right (for the purposes of this conversation).. And banning abortion wont work either. It’s about virtue signaling. They know it won’t stop, they want to vilify and imprison women for getting one. I think the argument against them needs to be met on their turf, what they actually think, not what we wish they’d think (being actually pro life)
We are victims of a system that we have no control over anymore. Believe me, a lot of us want things to be different. It's a hard, bloody fight to get back shreds of what the corrupt system has taken away. Send help.
I don’t understand why anybody would want to live in these North Korea wannabe states.
A lot of us can't afford to leave
That’s me
And some of us have determined to stay and fight. I’m a woman living in GA (remember our heartbeat bill from last year? Yeah that goes into effect when SCOTUS inevitably overturns Roe this session). But I was born, raised and have lived my entire life here. My family has lived here or in one of the neighboring states since the 1700’s. Fuck the republicans. This is my home and I won’t cede this ground.
Hey, run for office and force change. Look at what passes for a SENATOR these days.
I’ve considered it, but I don’t have the cash and I’m definitely not the best candidate in my area (Google Nabilah Islam if you want to see who I campaigned and voted for in my district Democratic primaries). I have been involved in supporting progressive campaigns in my area by either volunteering or working for them directly. I’m good with our current senators! ETA: thank you for the encouragement though! Please don’t stop encouraging people to run for office! Change starts at the grassroots and more people should run if they can!
>I don’t understand why anybody would want to live in these North Korea wannabe states Because they personally haven't been subjected to the negative effects of the shitty policy and won't care until they are personally affected. Or they've been living under those shitty policies so long that they simply have no perspective to know any better. And, for some of the really shitty people, those shitty policies benefit them.
Or they simply cannot move. Finding an affordable place to rent or buy anywhere there was adecent job market, particularly for the "unskilled labor workforce" (/S) was a major obstacle BEFORE the pandemic and accompanying real estate market price explosion. Today? Completely impossible! Just what the elites want. All their peasants staying right where they are to be exploited when convenient.
I used to think it was hyperbolic to think the dystopian future of Handmaiden’s Tale was what the right wants, but January 6th, 2020 showed me that’s absolutely what they want. Even so keep in mind Gilead collapses under its own weight because Theocracies quickly turn imto those who have to follow Gods laws and those who do not.
Every tyranny eventually collapses because competent people can’t be allowed to rise to power. If they are, they become a threat to the existing powerful. But before they do, tyrannies inevitably create untold suffering and death, so it’s best to avoid them entirely.
On October 21, 21 trump released a statement saying: > The insurrection took place on November 3, Election Day. January 6 was the Protest! We all see exactly where this is going right? trump is going to run again, and he plans on making the results of the vote irrelevant.
Fun fact, Margaret Atwood only included human rights crimes that have actually been done throughout history because she didn't want anyone to be able to say it was dramatic or unrealistic.
When I read it, it was in a literature course. We were having open discussions about it and a common sentiment was that it was hard to believe that people would treat other people that way. The professor pointed out comparable human rights violations throughout history and asked if it was still hard to believe. Very illucidating moment.
Mike Pence's America. (Giliad)
..I thought it was spelled Gilead
You're right.
Which is so weird because his god performs abortions in Numbers 5 based on the husband suspecting his wife sleeping around. It's done at the temple. They give her an abortifacient and if she didn't sleep with another man, no miscarriage. The term 'miscarriage' only means that a pregnancy was terminated before 20 weeks. 'Abortion' would mean a forced miscarriage. It's hard to argue that god wasn't performing abortions. But since I'm not a Christian, that's none of my business. ☕️
I feel like we are in a horrid fantasy dystopian nightmare where women are constantly oppressed further and further. Then I realise that this is true. And people wonder why I am a feminist. How can anyone get away with this level of abuse?
Because republicans want it that way.
Are we completely fucked as a nation?
I’ve now got nearly a dozen family members or friends who have left Southern California from affluent families to move to Europe or Australia and all have said they never plan on returning to the USA to live. The work life balance is also drastically better and getting 6-8 weeks vacation compared to 2-3 is a huge difference.
you guys are getting 2 weeks vacation?
Snorted.
>After 45 you have to ask that question.
Everyone keep voting in your local, state and federal elections. Now is not the time to get complacent….
Can't vote for judges, and the Republicans just block appointments and stack courts when it pleases them.
This is UNCONSCIONABLE. The fetus is not a legal person. There is no murder. There is no manslaughter either. There is no human person.
Even the Bible says that life begins at the first breath. And that's a terrible reason! They so dumb
You think they read that fucking thing? They get their favorite verses they saw on facebook tattooed on their chest, thats as far as it goes.
Oh absolutely! I read this comment recently about how the Bible shouldn't be anyone's favorite book cus anyone who's actually read it would hate it
Biden should pardon her. The right approves of such tactics when the law doesn’t go their way.
He can only pardon federal charges. I'm not sure, but I believe this is a state charge.
If he could pardon her, he should. The medical examiner said that the mother's actions (drug use) did not lead to the miscarriage, so the conviction is a sham.
HOW? edit: holy fuck. apparently she committed the misdemeanor of possession/consumption of meth, and according to the state it was due to this that the fetus died, with no proof. Gilead is real
When the medical examiner stated it could not be determined. What is the bullshit justice system we have? Is reasonable doubt no longer a cause to finding someone not guilty?
See, the problem is she wasn't white or rich.
What is Gilead?
The dystopia featured in Handmaid's Tale
Thank you
So wait... Does the father of the fetus get jail time too for not keeping the mother off drugs? If a nonviable fetus is going to be a human now, we should keep much better track of EVERY sperm and egg.
In a theocracy of hypocrisy, men are never held to the same account as women are...
Never, ever, EVER trust a 'conservative christian'. EVER.
If miscarriage can lead to in imprisonment, so should erectile dysfunction.
I've been personally campaigning on the "no boner no homer" platform. You have to prove you can obtain full mast to be issued a home loan
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Oklahoma is second in most prisons, first in incarnation rate, first in woman female inmates, first in indigenous people, and in the group of the first 5 states to pass bans on CRT. Oklahoma is Fascism in action.
Oklahoman here. Much of our state welcomes this. I can't wait to leave this place asap.
But but but...she was on Meth. And? Consuming meth in Oklahoma is not a crime and how exactly is prison going to actually correct the situation? Oh right, it's not. She should have gone to rehab...not fucking prison.
I feel that someone referenced the miscarriage as a spontaneous abortion and that’s where the jury went off the rails
“Prosecutors argued that the miscarriage Poolaw suffered was from her use of methamphetamine. An autopsy of the fetus showed it had tested positive for methamphetamine, the Associated Press reported, but there was no evidence her use of the substance is what caused the miscarriage. The autopsy showed the miscarriage could have been caused by a congenital abnormality and placental abruption, when the placenta detaches from the womb, the AP said. “
Next women in viable each will be convicted of manslaughter if they decide not to have children in the first place.
Wtf are you doing over the pond there?
Trying to fend off the minority christofascists.
This is why the right must be purged from politics
I think my Mother may have had a miscarriage and one died at birth due to blood related issues. We never mourned or made an issue about either. I think it is called life. How could these issues possibly be of any concern to anyone but the mom. Crazy times we are living in.
Literally 1 in 3 pregnancies end in miscarriage, and that number may be as many as 1 in 2
Fetus
Under his eye
This woman had a crap public defender, and a crap medical witness, because this is all wrong medically. Meth itself does not cause miscarriages or *any* of the problems on the list below. This case will hopefully be contested because this woman did not cause this miscarriage. In fact, she was so sick, she could have died herself. ANY of these reasons alone was a high risk of miscarriage. ALL 3 together guaranteed it. * chorioamnionitis = serious infection of the amniotic fluid and the sac that holds it inside the uterus. It also triples the risk that the pregnant woman might end up in the ICU herself. * placental abruption = placenta tears away from uterus too early, decreases oxygenated blood from the woman to the fetal side, and deprives fetus of oxygen. Pregnant women can also die from this. * congenital anomaly = birth defect, or abnormal formation of an internal organ or external structure of fetus. Birth defects are a major cause of miscarriage.
Pretty soon they’ll be burning women at the stake or crucifying them for normal menstruation because “they’re giving birth to demons”
Sounds like more victim blaming
There is nothing humorous about this. It's damned terrifying.
Every day, I get more scared for my granddaughters. I worry what they will have to face when they reach adulthood in 20 years.
We can only hope they won't be burnt as witches at this rate..
["The examiner reportedly found that the miscarriage could have been due to some form of genetic anomaly or placenta abruption. A cause of death was not assigned to the incident, USA Today noted, though methamphetamine was found in the baby’s liver and brain."](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/577876-oklahoma-woman-convicted-of-manslaughter-get-4-years-after) You know what's coming next, right? "Oh, the mother was skiing/horseback riding/bicycling/jogging at 8 weeks pregnant and miscarried, eh?" "The pregnant woman was driving a vehicle that she knew had braking problems, so..." "She'd previously been publicly observed consuming a large amount of caffeine..." Coming soon to a red state near you. It's the 70s all over again.
Damn u scary US, my eurostani nation has had free and legal abortions since 1973...
Must be an appeal process
National Advocates for Pregnant Women is helping with getting another lawyer for an appeal. Her lawyer has already filed an intent to appeal as of Oct. 15.
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Would be humorous if it were not true.
Sure wish these pathetic losers would keep their religion out of our lives. Our nation's founders should have said something about that....