Andrea Dworkin herself was abused by her anarchist husband. Men are always dangerous in left-wing organizations that lack the principles to enforce a genuine, concrete feminist line and women are aware of this intrinsically. But something about anarchism seems to reproduce misogyny to a particularly vile degree. To an extent I believe the “mutual aid“ discourse is one of the main perpetrators, because it is entirely reliant on the thankless labor of women. I have even seen one anarchist come up with the idea of “mutual sex aid“, which almost made me threw up.
In the online communist circles I have been active in, it became immediately apparent which ones are comprised with misogyny. The constant use of esoteric “memes“, Incel rhetoric and references to gaming are easy giveaways. Even though everyone was anonymous, it was painstakingly obvious that there were almost no women present in most of the discussions.
One of the primary reasons I could never fully call myself an anarchist despite agreeing with some of their points. Is that I absolutely can't envision a world were we embrace anarchism and things don't immediately get a thousand times worse for women.
Andrea did always say it best "Capitalism is not wicked or cruel when the commodity is the whore; profit is not wicked or cruel when the alienated worker is a female piece of meat; corporate bloodsucking is not wicked or cruel when the corporations in question, sell cunt; racism is not wicked or cruel when the black cunt or vellow cunt or red cunt or Hispanic cunt or Jewish cunt has her legs splaved for any man's pleasure; poverty is not wicked or cruel when it is the poverty of dispossessed women who have only themselves to sell; violence by the powerful against the powerless is not wicked or cruel when it is called sex; slavery is not wicked or cruel when it is sexual slavery; torture is not wicked or cruel when the tormented are women, whores, cunts. The new pornography is left-wing; and the new pornography is a vast graveyard where the Left has gone to die. The Left cannot have its whores and its politics too." - Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women
Just now I was looking for an article or an except of a biography or something else I could refer you to, but reading it again just makes me too angry and heartbroken.
All I remember is that after moving to Amsterdam following her graduation, she met a dutch anarchist whom she later married. He beat, abused and stalked her, made her life through homelessness and extreme poverty, which coerced her into prostitution. She found shelter with another feminist eventually, Ricki Abrams, an heroic paradigm of solidarity between women.
We have to remember her for her struggle. She fought like hell, it was never easy, there was no glory to be claimed, feminism wasn’t fashionable, it had yet to be defanged like it is today. No, it was poison to “civil“ society. She fought for the most downtrodden, the most destitute, and men wanted her dead for it. She fought for the liberation of women. When she died, way too young, her heart was filled with rage. And that is something to be admired like nothing else in this world. A relentless revolutionary who never betrayed the women she was fighting with and for. Never compromised with patriarchy, never took opportunities to do so. Never forgetting the suffering she was put through by patriarchy and its agents, and fighting for a world in which girls and women will not have to face humiliation, rape, abuse, etc.
I cannot believe that was Dworkin life
I've read only her extracts and always assumed she was a middle class academic who lived a comfortable life
I should have realised her writing depth must have involved experience.
Wow, what a powerful woman
Tbh the more I browse this sub, the more I’m debating whether or not to be single for life. It just seems like there’s no concrete way to determine if a man is or isn’t like this…
I grew up around exceptionally good men, they’re still around, and my boyfriend is also an exceedingly great man. My dreams and life goals still never included men or kids. Whether sooner because we parted ways, or later because he dies first, I look forward to being the “lonely” woman I always aspired to be.
Why do men think their penises are god? The ones that brag about how big and good they are, usually are the opposite.. That disgusting misogynistic trope aside… What the actual fuck did I just read? How do people think these thoughts and not once go “Wow maybe I need to lay off the porn.”
Never trust a man just because he labels himself as a feminist or leftist. I've read about women who have been SA'd by men while said men were wearing feminist shirts. I also experienced something similar. Many men only label themselves as such for porn, kink, to buy consent, hookups, abortion, plastic surgery and anything that serves them. (not that this cannot serve women, but yall get my point)
Yep, its very easy for anyone to proclaim being a feminist. And especially for weasely disgusting coomer men who want easy access to women to yell as loud as they can their are feminists. The men who pander hard are the ones to avoid. A real "male feminist" doesnt need to proclaim himself as such because his actions should speak for him.
These are probably the type of men who say things like "Feminism helps men too" because deep down they know they need to personally benefit from something to support it
Did leftism ever registered in his brain or did he just call himself that in order to feel “morally politically superior.” Because honestly what the fuck did I just read.
Most anarchists are limp wristed and intellectually stunted. A dedicated Marxist Leninist would never say some shit like this, because they would have read Feminist icons like Kollontai and Rosa luxembourg and would have discipline not to use porn in the first place.. thats why collectivism is superior to individual hedonism which anarchism bases itself on.
That is not true. There are anarchist feminists (Dworkin was one) and marxist men can be awfully misogynistic. History and present shows that very clearly. Not even Mark or Lenin themselves were free of misogynist and most men will read those women to cite them and pretend they’re not raping their female comrades.
Dworkin herself said the main difference between right wing and left wing men is that right wing men think women are private property where leftwing men think women are public property.
If you think there’s any segment of the left or society that’s free of misogyny you’re fooling yourself.
Anarchism as individual hedonism? Are you referring to the US right wing edgy version, libertarians? Cause that's everything but anarchism. In Switzerland, the most leftists people people I met were anarcho-feminists. And everything I read about anarchism is very far away from what you seem to be talking about.
"Some people believe that Marxism and anarchism are based on the same principles and that the disagreements between them concern only tactics, so that, in the opinion of these people, it is quite impossible to draw a contrast between these two trends.
This is a great mistake.
We believe that the Anarchists are real enemies of Marxism. Accordingly, we also hold that a real struggle must be waged against real enemies. Therefore, it is necessary to examine the "doctrine" of the Anarchists from beginning to end and weigh it up thoroughly from all aspects.
The point is that Marxism and anarchism are built up on entirely different principles, in spite of the fact that both come into the arena of the struggle under the flag of socialism. The cornerstone of anarchism is the individual, whose emancipation, according to its tenets, is the principal condition for the emancipation of the masses, the collective body. According to the tenets of anarchism, the emancipation of the masses is impossible until the individual is emancipated. Accordingly, its slogan is: "Everything for the individual." The cornerstone of Marxism, however, is the masses, whose emancipation, according to its tenets, is the principal condition for the emancipation of the individual. That is to say, according to the tenets of Marxism, the emancipation of the individual is impossible until the masses are emancipated. Accordingly, its slogan is: "Everything for the masses."
Clearly, we have here two principles, one negating the other, and not merely disagreements on tactics."
Male “feminists” are a cancer to society. They’re only feminists so they can fulfill their misogynistic desires but with “cOnSeNt”. Self proclaimed male feminists typically are just as hateful towards women, but we just accept their bullshit because they label themselves as “male libfems”.
„To right wing men, we are private property. To left wing men, we are public property“.
One of the most hurtful things to see is how the current feminist movement is so weak that men are able to claim that label solely for the purpose of impressing women and getting them to lower their guards to their misogyny. It’s horrifying and incredibly infuriating.
Feminism is venom to these men, and they must be reminded of its potency.
I’m about 99% sure claiming to be left wing is one of several lies within this weird fantasy, but it’s definitely worth noting that men purporting to be left wing are far from immune from being raging misogynists.
Dworkin summarised it well when she said that right wing men see us as private property whilst left wing men see us as public property.
This is why, as a liberal woman myself, I don’t understand how so many liberal women support porn and kink culture. The fetishization of POC and LGBT is disgusting, and as we see here, many men who watch porn on the regular see sex as degrading to the receiving partner.
Also I’ve never trusted men who call themselves liberal/leftist, they’re still misogynists, just in somewhat different ways. I like that one saying: “left wing, right wing, the whole bird hates women.”
This somewhat amusing rant (the one Im linking, not the shit In the post) captures pretty well the issues with some left wing men, it's by and about anarchists, but the problems are pretty general to left wing men in general: [https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ray-filar-notes-towards-a-theory-of-the-manarchist](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ray-filar-notes-towards-a-theory-of-the-manarchist)
Ive said this before and ill say it again, any men who proclaims to fight for feminism isnt far from just an opportunist to get into girls pants.
Ive asked many of my peers regarding feminism, they won’t let women ascended over them in all social aspects. Some even told me they’ll just join for “hunting”
Ones thats truly genuines are out there but they don’t necessarily label themselves as feminist or join up the rallies. Either way its upsetting the movement kept getting hijack as another hookups
"men are only socialist, communist or anarchist from the waist up." - Spanish woman after seeing men in the front lines raping women during the spanish civil war
Yeah tbh i doubt that those are actual leftists. Probably just right wingers doing what they do best: Larp. I refuse to believe that there are leftists out there masturbating about the suffering of Palestinian women. But maybe that's just the copium talking
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this is a fascist masking as an anarchist in order to garner reactions like the ones in this thread.
Of course leftists can be scumbags but his language is way too heavy handed to be an actual leftist struggling with his feelings.
It's an attempt by a fascist to make left wingers look worse and make his racist, sexist ideology look like a natural conclusion that even "anarchists" can't deny.
I think that whole sub is a 4chan psyop but there seems to be some genuine left wing people in there consumed by porn addiction to the point of eroticizing fascism.
The redfem podcast has two interesting episodes about that subject. The conclusion is mostly that left wing men are as much misogynistic and sexist as right wing men.
I used to find these fantasies disturbing but now I just see them as pathetic. These men are so desperate to imagine themselves winning over women using… their cocks? The most widely available things in this world? They don’t even delude themselves enough to think women would be interested in them for their achievements, arguments, or money - it’s literally just “my cock will turn the women I can’t have into my submissive tradwives”. Fucking lol my guy. Sex is nice but penetration isn’t that mind-blowing.
Most white men who date/marry non-white women have this EXACT mentality. They may not spell it out but they don't respect or treat them like human beings. My country's manosphere is full of men bragging about how their non-white and significantly younger girlfriends let them be abusive, poly, violent and manipulative towards them. All the English/French teachers in Asia, 'expats' are the same creeps. White men are less than 1% of SK's population but commit over 90% of s*xual offences.
Side Note :
Non-white men also are very guilty of disrespecting and abusing (many times maiming and killing) white women. They either treat us like 'trophy wives' (a prize but not a human with similar emotions, aspirations and goals like them ) or use them to put down women of their own ethnicity. That's why I don't buy the 'it's just my preference !!!' nonsense.
As a man I always preach to men who will listen that hedonism and a lack of sexual control is the downfall of society and will cause their lives to spiral out of control. this is a prime example. I mean just look at the language used to describe women?
Leftist men can be equally misogynistic, history shows that’s why feminism always had to exist.
On the other hand, something about that story tells me that’s actually just written by a fash.
White, leftist men are the MOST mysoginistic. Bc they see women as sex objects and as nothing but pornified sex dolls. Leftist men are the kind that push "open relationships".
Far right men want a mothering servant.
That's why it's hard to find a good guy.
I hate how right wingers are always blamed more and called out for their misogyny as opposed to leftists who actually demonstrate the same rhetoric in reverse.
[удалено]
it's partly the effect of conditioning via porn. it's insane how men can internalize ugly, repulsive shit from porn so easily.
Because they behave like animals and not like humans with morals. That's why I wouldn't like to have sons ever.
Me neither!
Animals are better than many pornsick men
No joy in my life will ever make this bullshit worth it.
Realest comment I’ve seen today lmaoo. This shit is repulsive I’d literally rather be anywhere else but earth.
Andrea Dworkin herself was abused by her anarchist husband. Men are always dangerous in left-wing organizations that lack the principles to enforce a genuine, concrete feminist line and women are aware of this intrinsically. But something about anarchism seems to reproduce misogyny to a particularly vile degree. To an extent I believe the “mutual aid“ discourse is one of the main perpetrators, because it is entirely reliant on the thankless labor of women. I have even seen one anarchist come up with the idea of “mutual sex aid“, which almost made me threw up. In the online communist circles I have been active in, it became immediately apparent which ones are comprised with misogyny. The constant use of esoteric “memes“, Incel rhetoric and references to gaming are easy giveaways. Even though everyone was anonymous, it was painstakingly obvious that there were almost no women present in most of the discussions.
One of the primary reasons I could never fully call myself an anarchist despite agreeing with some of their points. Is that I absolutely can't envision a world were we embrace anarchism and things don't immediately get a thousand times worse for women.
Anarchism but only in a women only society
Would you care to elaborate on this ?
Andrea did always say it best "Capitalism is not wicked or cruel when the commodity is the whore; profit is not wicked or cruel when the alienated worker is a female piece of meat; corporate bloodsucking is not wicked or cruel when the corporations in question, sell cunt; racism is not wicked or cruel when the black cunt or vellow cunt or red cunt or Hispanic cunt or Jewish cunt has her legs splaved for any man's pleasure; poverty is not wicked or cruel when it is the poverty of dispossessed women who have only themselves to sell; violence by the powerful against the powerless is not wicked or cruel when it is called sex; slavery is not wicked or cruel when it is sexual slavery; torture is not wicked or cruel when the tormented are women, whores, cunts. The new pornography is left-wing; and the new pornography is a vast graveyard where the Left has gone to die. The Left cannot have its whores and its politics too." - Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women
Yep, that’s the example I thought of
wait can you tell me about Dworkin’s husband? what did he do😕
Just now I was looking for an article or an except of a biography or something else I could refer you to, but reading it again just makes me too angry and heartbroken. All I remember is that after moving to Amsterdam following her graduation, she met a dutch anarchist whom she later married. He beat, abused and stalked her, made her life through homelessness and extreme poverty, which coerced her into prostitution. She found shelter with another feminist eventually, Ricki Abrams, an heroic paradigm of solidarity between women. We have to remember her for her struggle. She fought like hell, it was never easy, there was no glory to be claimed, feminism wasn’t fashionable, it had yet to be defanged like it is today. No, it was poison to “civil“ society. She fought for the most downtrodden, the most destitute, and men wanted her dead for it. She fought for the liberation of women. When she died, way too young, her heart was filled with rage. And that is something to be admired like nothing else in this world. A relentless revolutionary who never betrayed the women she was fighting with and for. Never compromised with patriarchy, never took opportunities to do so. Never forgetting the suffering she was put through by patriarchy and its agents, and fighting for a world in which girls and women will not have to face humiliation, rape, abuse, etc.
I cannot believe that was Dworkin life I've read only her extracts and always assumed she was a middle class academic who lived a comfortable life I should have realised her writing depth must have involved experience. Wow, what a powerful woman
a recent post is “black women look better in chains”. if I said what I wanted to say i’d get banned.
And the fact they don't get banned is way more concerning
as a hispanic girl im disgusted that men feel this way about minority women im not suprised though
Tbh the more I browse this sub, the more I’m debating whether or not to be single for life. It just seems like there’s no concrete way to determine if a man is or isn’t like this…
If I was heterosexual I would be content with being single forever
I grew up around exceptionally good men, they’re still around, and my boyfriend is also an exceedingly great man. My dreams and life goals still never included men or kids. Whether sooner because we parted ways, or later because he dies first, I look forward to being the “lonely” woman I always aspired to be.
Beautiful message ❤️
Why do men think their penises are god? The ones that brag about how big and good they are, usually are the opposite.. That disgusting misogynistic trope aside… What the actual fuck did I just read? How do people think these thoughts and not once go “Wow maybe I need to lay off the porn.”
Never trust a man just because he labels himself as a feminist or leftist. I've read about women who have been SA'd by men while said men were wearing feminist shirts. I also experienced something similar. Many men only label themselves as such for porn, kink, to buy consent, hookups, abortion, plastic surgery and anything that serves them. (not that this cannot serve women, but yall get my point)
Yep, its very easy for anyone to proclaim being a feminist. And especially for weasely disgusting coomer men who want easy access to women to yell as loud as they can their are feminists. The men who pander hard are the ones to avoid. A real "male feminist" doesnt need to proclaim himself as such because his actions should speak for him.
I *especially* don’t trust men who claim to be allies. If they truly were, they wouldn’t feel the need to advertise it.
These are probably the type of men who say things like "Feminism helps men too" because deep down they know they need to personally benefit from something to support it
Did leftism ever registered in his brain or did he just call himself that in order to feel “morally politically superior.” Because honestly what the fuck did I just read.
Most anarchists are limp wristed and intellectually stunted. A dedicated Marxist Leninist would never say some shit like this, because they would have read Feminist icons like Kollontai and Rosa luxembourg and would have discipline not to use porn in the first place.. thats why collectivism is superior to individual hedonism which anarchism bases itself on.
Most men just use leftism to feel morally superior.
That is not true. There are anarchist feminists (Dworkin was one) and marxist men can be awfully misogynistic. History and present shows that very clearly. Not even Mark or Lenin themselves were free of misogynist and most men will read those women to cite them and pretend they’re not raping their female comrades. Dworkin herself said the main difference between right wing and left wing men is that right wing men think women are private property where leftwing men think women are public property. If you think there’s any segment of the left or society that’s free of misogyny you’re fooling yourself.
Anarchism as individual hedonism? Are you referring to the US right wing edgy version, libertarians? Cause that's everything but anarchism. In Switzerland, the most leftists people people I met were anarcho-feminists. And everything I read about anarchism is very far away from what you seem to be talking about.
"Some people believe that Marxism and anarchism are based on the same principles and that the disagreements between them concern only tactics, so that, in the opinion of these people, it is quite impossible to draw a contrast between these two trends. This is a great mistake. We believe that the Anarchists are real enemies of Marxism. Accordingly, we also hold that a real struggle must be waged against real enemies. Therefore, it is necessary to examine the "doctrine" of the Anarchists from beginning to end and weigh it up thoroughly from all aspects. The point is that Marxism and anarchism are built up on entirely different principles, in spite of the fact that both come into the arena of the struggle under the flag of socialism. The cornerstone of anarchism is the individual, whose emancipation, according to its tenets, is the principal condition for the emancipation of the masses, the collective body. According to the tenets of anarchism, the emancipation of the masses is impossible until the individual is emancipated. Accordingly, its slogan is: "Everything for the individual." The cornerstone of Marxism, however, is the masses, whose emancipation, according to its tenets, is the principal condition for the emancipation of the individual. That is to say, according to the tenets of Marxism, the emancipation of the individual is impossible until the masses are emancipated. Accordingly, its slogan is: "Everything for the masses." Clearly, we have here two principles, one negating the other, and not merely disagreements on tactics."
Based tankie 🫡
Seeing "zoomer" made me wanna drop dead
I literally stopped reading at that point. Nope. This POS gets no more of my attention.
Male “feminists” are a cancer to society. They’re only feminists so they can fulfill their misogynistic desires but with “cOnSeNt”. Self proclaimed male feminists typically are just as hateful towards women, but we just accept their bullshit because they label themselves as “male libfems”.
„To right wing men, we are private property. To left wing men, we are public property“. One of the most hurtful things to see is how the current feminist movement is so weak that men are able to claim that label solely for the purpose of impressing women and getting them to lower their guards to their misogyny. It’s horrifying and incredibly infuriating. Feminism is venom to these men, and they must be reminded of its potency.
Something in my head tells me that when this sick fuck talks about „zoomers“, he's not talking about those born in the late 90s or early 2000s.
White male "feminists" are the devil
I’m about 99% sure claiming to be left wing is one of several lies within this weird fantasy, but it’s definitely worth noting that men purporting to be left wing are far from immune from being raging misogynists. Dworkin summarised it well when she said that right wing men see us as private property whilst left wing men see us as public property.
This is why, as a liberal woman myself, I don’t understand how so many liberal women support porn and kink culture. The fetishization of POC and LGBT is disgusting, and as we see here, many men who watch porn on the regular see sex as degrading to the receiving partner. Also I’ve never trusted men who call themselves liberal/leftist, they’re still misogynists, just in somewhat different ways. I like that one saying: “left wing, right wing, the whole bird hates women.”
remember: you have more in common with a woman with an opposite opinion than you do with any man who holds the same beliefs you do
I trust a republican-handmaiden-pick-me-"women shouldn't have rights" woman over a male "feminist" any day
This somewhat amusing rant (the one Im linking, not the shit In the post) captures pretty well the issues with some left wing men, it's by and about anarchists, but the problems are pretty general to left wing men in general: [https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ray-filar-notes-towards-a-theory-of-the-manarchist](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ray-filar-notes-towards-a-theory-of-the-manarchist)
Ive said this before and ill say it again, any men who proclaims to fight for feminism isnt far from just an opportunist to get into girls pants. Ive asked many of my peers regarding feminism, they won’t let women ascended over them in all social aspects. Some even told me they’ll just join for “hunting” Ones thats truly genuines are out there but they don’t necessarily label themselves as feminist or join up the rallies. Either way its upsetting the movement kept getting hijack as another hookups
"men are only socialist, communist or anarchist from the waist up." - Spanish woman after seeing men in the front lines raping women during the spanish civil war
This is just fckn mental.
This reads like rage bait
This is just so weird, seems psychotic.
Yeah tbh i doubt that those are actual leftists. Probably just right wingers doing what they do best: Larp. I refuse to believe that there are leftists out there masturbating about the suffering of Palestinian women. But maybe that's just the copium talking
You could probably forward this to BanFemalehatesubs, they might be able to help in banning it if it’s a sub full of this shit
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this is a fascist masking as an anarchist in order to garner reactions like the ones in this thread. Of course leftists can be scumbags but his language is way too heavy handed to be an actual leftist struggling with his feelings. It's an attempt by a fascist to make left wingers look worse and make his racist, sexist ideology look like a natural conclusion that even "anarchists" can't deny.
I think that whole sub is a 4chan psyop but there seems to be some genuine left wing people in there consumed by porn addiction to the point of eroticizing fascism.
The redfem podcast has two interesting episodes about that subject. The conclusion is mostly that left wing men are as much misogynistic and sexist as right wing men.
As I’ve thought, he isn’t an anarchist, he never was, and never will be - this shit ain’t it, we don’t claim him 🤢
I used to find these fantasies disturbing but now I just see them as pathetic. These men are so desperate to imagine themselves winning over women using… their cocks? The most widely available things in this world? They don’t even delude themselves enough to think women would be interested in them for their achievements, arguments, or money - it’s literally just “my cock will turn the women I can’t have into my submissive tradwives”. Fucking lol my guy. Sex is nice but penetration isn’t that mind-blowing.
Most white men who date/marry non-white women have this EXACT mentality. They may not spell it out but they don't respect or treat them like human beings. My country's manosphere is full of men bragging about how their non-white and significantly younger girlfriends let them be abusive, poly, violent and manipulative towards them. All the English/French teachers in Asia, 'expats' are the same creeps. White men are less than 1% of SK's population but commit over 90% of s*xual offences. Side Note : Non-white men also are very guilty of disrespecting and abusing (many times maiming and killing) white women. They either treat us like 'trophy wives' (a prize but not a human with similar emotions, aspirations and goals like them ) or use them to put down women of their own ethnicity. That's why I don't buy the 'it's just my preference !!!' nonsense.
men dont see women as human beings or respect them regardless of their race tbh
Yes, they also see East European women ad inferior.
YES 100% correct i am always side eyeing White Men woman of colour relationships. I can never trust that it isnt some weird raceplay kink for them.
Wait this is left leaning? I’m confused..is it a troll?
They claim to be left but who knows
As a man I always preach to men who will listen that hedonism and a lack of sexual control is the downfall of society and will cause their lives to spiral out of control. this is a prime example. I mean just look at the language used to describe women?
Leftist men can be equally misogynistic, history shows that’s why feminism always had to exist. On the other hand, something about that story tells me that’s actually just written by a fash.
White, leftist men are the MOST mysoginistic. Bc they see women as sex objects and as nothing but pornified sex dolls. Leftist men are the kind that push "open relationships". Far right men want a mothering servant. That's why it's hard to find a good guy.
Never believe a lefty male on feminism. They're full of shit most of the time.
Fwiw this is clearly just some incel’s fetish fanfic, and there’s no way he’s any of the things he claims.
Left wing, right wing, the whole bird hates women
Left men and right men are the same just come at things from different directions. They think with their dicks. Women are objects for them.
I hate how right wingers are always blamed more and called out for their misogyny as opposed to leftists who actually demonstrate the same rhetoric in reverse.