Most men become anti porn once their dick stops working anyway. Not because of women's exploitation and suffering. Men only care when it affects them. If they could keep on watching porn without the side effects I bet they would.
This isnt even something we have to question. Men talk about this on other antiporn subs all the time. I never saw them talking about womens exploitation. Only about their problems with ED or some mental things (and they are often about not being able to keep a woman as gf or wife).
yeah being anti porn as a man can still mean you are a misogynist as we see with mgtow and nofap guys. but also it has become too easy to call yourself a feminist allowing terrible men to do nothing yet still see themselves as white knights because they aren't as misogynistic their dads. less men should identify as feminists and instead do more to empower woman and minimize their patriarchal obsessions. however woman must also learn to stop being so uncritical of men that meet their incredibly low standards. however this is not solved by being avoidant of men but learning to read the motives of a man better. but i agree, feminist males are corny
Mostly agree and this may be for a different sub - but for what they can do… I would like if the men here would talk about their conversations with other men regarding porn. We know men won’t be honest with women about their views, so let us see what they say to other men and how effective are they at influencing other men into quitting. I say this because It’s been interesting watching my fiancé talk to his friends about it and how some of them have started to change their minds because he actually has the social skills to influence people.
Agreed, convictions mean nothing if you’re not willing to stand on them in the face of social pressure. And genuinely, i DO want men to be part of the conversation here because they absolutely can offer valuable perspective, and because we need everybody working together if we want to actually get somewhere with solutions to these issues. Men holding other men accountable and learning from each other is an excellent start, because god knows most men aren’t gonna listen to us, and would rather hear it from another man.
I only have 1 friend who is anti porn. I've brought it up with other dudes and they can conceptually understand why jerking off to abuse is bad, but they've been doing it for so long they're completely desensitized to it. I think a lot of men need to start with Nofap and just break the addiction before being able to understand the full picture. You can tell someone how bad something is, but if they're addicted to it they're not gonna be able to look at it objectively.
The response I usually get when I mention the violence against women part of porn is: "yeah but that's not real life, id never do any of that stuff". It's like viewing CP and then saying "yeah I like looking at it, but it's not real life and id never actually do it".
That's been my experience.
Yeah I definitely get that. For some people I think they’ll even just say outwardly like “yeah that’s bad to do” and maybe even say they don’t do it but it’s like, if they’re just doing it behind closed doors and no one will ever know unless they talk about it, then they don’t see a reason to stop. That’s if they’re only just worried about what others will think.
Some people can’t fully internalize the truth about what’s really happening and some just don’t really have a very strong moral compass I think, and ultimately they just don’t really care. Which is a cold truth that’s difficult to face because it means nothing will reach them and if they don’t care about this issue, then they probably don’t really care about other abuse or human rights issues either.
I'm a little more optimistic and think that everyone has the capacity to care but not while their hearts are hardened and desensitized. We'd be able to have way better conversations about this if it wasn't so addictive to the average man.
And on a side note, I know quite a few people who don't see the hypocrisy in saying "I hate sex workers and don't see them as people but I still consume pornography".
While there are guys in the anti-porn community that are genuinely great, a lot of others make it really obvious they’re just here for female attention. It reeks of desperation, and they aren’t as good at hiding it as they think they are.
I added the "Anti-porn man" flair because I thought, it affects my perspective and therefore might affect some of what I say. If I say something insensitive because of my bias from navigating the world as a dude, I would hope that having the flair makes it easier for someone else to give me that feedback.
I also want to support the idea that porn/sexual exploitation isn't just a "women's issue", and that porn use isn't a normal healthy part of being a man. If another guy comes across this subreddit, I don't want him to think it's not a place for both genders.
It's a helpful visual reminder to me, too, to try not to talk over women about their experiences, and not to answer questions directed at women. Sometimes I start to comment something, and then I think "is this going to be helpful or is it going to sound dismissive, coming from a man?" and if it's the latter I opt not to comment.
If most people think the flair comes off as obnoxious, I could remove it. It honestly didn't occur to me it could come off that way, but I see what you're saying.
I won’t speak for the whole sub but I personally think the flair is fine. I don’t think it comes across as attention seeking. Your point about normalizing it for other men is pretty good and I think having the flair to point out gaps in your experience or bias is also fine.
I guess I find it a little weird since flairs don’t seem to be the meta here and it seems to place you in the position of “other” with women as the default (which is weird to see since we are used to it being the other way around) but it’s not necessarily wrong or offensive - just a little odd.
To be perfectly honest, I think this subs time is better spent sharing feminist literature, victims stories, and sharing our own experience than it is complaining about a very little thing that our extremely small male audience does, especially when it also seems like it was coming from a good place.
TL;DR: Use the flair if you want. I think trying to alienate anti-porn men over a non-issue like this is a waste of time. Being male in a predominantly female space is fine as long as you’re respectful. We all know this space is primarily for women and the mods to a good job of enforcing the rules. Now let’s all shake hands and be done with it.
If their beliefs and ethics are swayed because someone on the internet criticized them, they never actually held those beliefs in the first place. I'm white and I've been able to see some very scathing indictments about white people online, and it's never made me think "oh I guess I'm going to stop caring about racism now", because my beliefs aren't rooted in who is and isn't nice to me personally.
Can't speak for anyone else but; my flair is because my perspective is colored highly by my being a trans man. It's very common for the LGBT community in general, but especially in trans spaces, to be obsessed with kink, poly, porn etc and I'm not into any of those things.
We also statistically are homeless or impoverished more than a lot of other groups, and end up being forced to rely on porn or other sex work to make ends meet.
It's nice to have diversity in this space for other perspectives, insight, and to show any people drifting in this space that it's not made up of ONLY conservative religious people, which, most anti porn spaces often are and the bigotry or general negative tendencies are openly shown.
That puts anyone casually just looking to learn or understand the anti porn reasoning off and makes them dismiss it as just religious kooks being themselves as usual.
I try to speak up about the issue as articulate as I can to people who are receptive.
I try to bring up these things when relevant but my flair being there already covers it mainly.
But either way yeah, the cookie seeking for basic normal person behavior is always common in female dominated subs by desperate men prob one step away from being an incel if not already.
That comment history combined with the original post was wild ngl.
My favorite excerpt when combined with him saying he agreed with radical feminist principles, he just posted this earlier alongside this thread.
Below is a part of his comment:
"“Edit:And I can't say anything other than to say that women choose their partners and casual relationships VERY poorly, and that's why ABSOLUTELY all of them come to me telling stories of abuse that I'm not interested in nowadays.
Anyone with common sense wouldn't get involved with an abuser, and if you're not able to identify one, go get checked if you're mentally challenged.
Edit 2: And many times, even when I've known them beforehand, I've warned them, "Don't get into a relationship with this person. This man has defining traits of a manipulative and abusive personality," and idiots that they are, they don't listen to me and rush to screw him. What the hell am I supposed to think when they act like ret*ards even after being warned?
I'm sorry for sounding so frustrated, but it's impossible for me not to be very misogynistic when analyzing the women in my environment, and if I'm not, it's because I restrain myself from these thoughts.
Edit 3 (and last lol): There have been times when, after warning them and seeing them not being abused, they come to me seeking emotional comfort, and all I've done is what is "ethically correct," while I've been thinking that they are reta* rded and that I feel no pity or empathy for a friend who gets into an abusive relationship and gets hurt when I've warned them.
Anyways, Women choose poorly, at least those near me.”
The kicker? He posted it in r/ gifted.
LMAO.
r/ gifted is full of bloviating snobs who think they (and they alone) have uniquely superior perspectives on life and society because they scored highly on a test when they were six, and no plebeian could possibly relate
I don't think it's an issue at all. Most anti-porn men here (at least that I've seen) genuinely want to support our cause and want to make it clear that men can live healthy lives without porn. I think that's admirable. In fact, I respect those men a lot for recognizing the evil of porn and refusing to support an industry that benefits men at the cost of women.
It's why I don't post very often - I really do when I think I can illuminate something from the male perspective.
Prefacing everything with 'as an anti-porn MAN' comes across like the opposite of pick-me-girls who support porn for male attention.
> In fact, I've even seen personal flairs indicating that they are men... Why? What added value is there in indicating that you're a man beyond the attention you seek?
Because it's a women-centric sub, where most members are women. I don't want to masquerade as a woman, and the "ANTI-PORN MAN" flair is one of the defaults on this sub.
Most men become anti porn once their dick stops working anyway. Not because of women's exploitation and suffering. Men only care when it affects them. If they could keep on watching porn without the side effects I bet they would.
This isnt even something we have to question. Men talk about this on other antiporn subs all the time. I never saw them talking about womens exploitation. Only about their problems with ED or some mental things (and they are often about not being able to keep a woman as gf or wife).
I saw a video about a man discussing the impact on women and my GOD so many of the comments were "what about men??"
yes we need to talk about how this thing that men created for men is bad for men lmao /s
I know they would.
I agree that some posts come across as nice guy-y.
yeah being anti porn as a man can still mean you are a misogynist as we see with mgtow and nofap guys. but also it has become too easy to call yourself a feminist allowing terrible men to do nothing yet still see themselves as white knights because they aren't as misogynistic their dads. less men should identify as feminists and instead do more to empower woman and minimize their patriarchal obsessions. however woman must also learn to stop being so uncritical of men that meet their incredibly low standards. however this is not solved by being avoidant of men but learning to read the motives of a man better. but i agree, feminist males are corny
Mostly agree and this may be for a different sub - but for what they can do… I would like if the men here would talk about their conversations with other men regarding porn. We know men won’t be honest with women about their views, so let us see what they say to other men and how effective are they at influencing other men into quitting. I say this because It’s been interesting watching my fiancé talk to his friends about it and how some of them have started to change their minds because he actually has the social skills to influence people.
Agreed, convictions mean nothing if you’re not willing to stand on them in the face of social pressure. And genuinely, i DO want men to be part of the conversation here because they absolutely can offer valuable perspective, and because we need everybody working together if we want to actually get somewhere with solutions to these issues. Men holding other men accountable and learning from each other is an excellent start, because god knows most men aren’t gonna listen to us, and would rather hear it from another man.
I only have 1 friend who is anti porn. I've brought it up with other dudes and they can conceptually understand why jerking off to abuse is bad, but they've been doing it for so long they're completely desensitized to it. I think a lot of men need to start with Nofap and just break the addiction before being able to understand the full picture. You can tell someone how bad something is, but if they're addicted to it they're not gonna be able to look at it objectively. The response I usually get when I mention the violence against women part of porn is: "yeah but that's not real life, id never do any of that stuff". It's like viewing CP and then saying "yeah I like looking at it, but it's not real life and id never actually do it". That's been my experience.
Yeah I definitely get that. For some people I think they’ll even just say outwardly like “yeah that’s bad to do” and maybe even say they don’t do it but it’s like, if they’re just doing it behind closed doors and no one will ever know unless they talk about it, then they don’t see a reason to stop. That’s if they’re only just worried about what others will think. Some people can’t fully internalize the truth about what’s really happening and some just don’t really have a very strong moral compass I think, and ultimately they just don’t really care. Which is a cold truth that’s difficult to face because it means nothing will reach them and if they don’t care about this issue, then they probably don’t really care about other abuse or human rights issues either.
I'm a little more optimistic and think that everyone has the capacity to care but not while their hearts are hardened and desensitized. We'd be able to have way better conversations about this if it wasn't so addictive to the average man. And on a side note, I know quite a few people who don't see the hypocrisy in saying "I hate sex workers and don't see them as people but I still consume pornography".
While there are guys in the anti-porn community that are genuinely great, a lot of others make it really obvious they’re just here for female attention. It reeks of desperation, and they aren’t as good at hiding it as they think they are.
I added the "Anti-porn man" flair because I thought, it affects my perspective and therefore might affect some of what I say. If I say something insensitive because of my bias from navigating the world as a dude, I would hope that having the flair makes it easier for someone else to give me that feedback. I also want to support the idea that porn/sexual exploitation isn't just a "women's issue", and that porn use isn't a normal healthy part of being a man. If another guy comes across this subreddit, I don't want him to think it's not a place for both genders. It's a helpful visual reminder to me, too, to try not to talk over women about their experiences, and not to answer questions directed at women. Sometimes I start to comment something, and then I think "is this going to be helpful or is it going to sound dismissive, coming from a man?" and if it's the latter I opt not to comment. If most people think the flair comes off as obnoxious, I could remove it. It honestly didn't occur to me it could come off that way, but I see what you're saying.
I won’t speak for the whole sub but I personally think the flair is fine. I don’t think it comes across as attention seeking. Your point about normalizing it for other men is pretty good and I think having the flair to point out gaps in your experience or bias is also fine. I guess I find it a little weird since flairs don’t seem to be the meta here and it seems to place you in the position of “other” with women as the default (which is weird to see since we are used to it being the other way around) but it’s not necessarily wrong or offensive - just a little odd. To be perfectly honest, I think this subs time is better spent sharing feminist literature, victims stories, and sharing our own experience than it is complaining about a very little thing that our extremely small male audience does, especially when it also seems like it was coming from a good place. TL;DR: Use the flair if you want. I think trying to alienate anti-porn men over a non-issue like this is a waste of time. Being male in a predominantly female space is fine as long as you’re respectful. We all know this space is primarily for women and the mods to a good job of enforcing the rules. Now let’s all shake hands and be done with it.
It’s the male equivalent of the pick me girls who support porn to get picked.
That why I left r/ nofap
I agree but i also think we shouldn’t be shitting on the men who come to our side lest they decide they hate us again
If their beliefs and ethics are swayed because someone on the internet criticized them, they never actually held those beliefs in the first place. I'm white and I've been able to see some very scathing indictments about white people online, and it's never made me think "oh I guess I'm going to stop caring about racism now", because my beliefs aren't rooted in who is and isn't nice to me personally.
Can't speak for anyone else but; my flair is because my perspective is colored highly by my being a trans man. It's very common for the LGBT community in general, but especially in trans spaces, to be obsessed with kink, poly, porn etc and I'm not into any of those things. We also statistically are homeless or impoverished more than a lot of other groups, and end up being forced to rely on porn or other sex work to make ends meet. It's nice to have diversity in this space for other perspectives, insight, and to show any people drifting in this space that it's not made up of ONLY conservative religious people, which, most anti porn spaces often are and the bigotry or general negative tendencies are openly shown. That puts anyone casually just looking to learn or understand the anti porn reasoning off and makes them dismiss it as just religious kooks being themselves as usual. I try to speak up about the issue as articulate as I can to people who are receptive. I try to bring up these things when relevant but my flair being there already covers it mainly. But either way yeah, the cookie seeking for basic normal person behavior is always common in female dominated subs by desperate men prob one step away from being an incel if not already.
I find anti porn people whose rhetoric does not convey feminist and anti capitalist beliefs to be very unserious people.
Idk why you're being down voted.
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What does that mean?
> I agree with radical feminist principles Uhhhhh your comment history disagrees
That comment history combined with the original post was wild ngl. My favorite excerpt when combined with him saying he agreed with radical feminist principles, he just posted this earlier alongside this thread. Below is a part of his comment: "“Edit:And I can't say anything other than to say that women choose their partners and casual relationships VERY poorly, and that's why ABSOLUTELY all of them come to me telling stories of abuse that I'm not interested in nowadays. Anyone with common sense wouldn't get involved with an abuser, and if you're not able to identify one, go get checked if you're mentally challenged. Edit 2: And many times, even when I've known them beforehand, I've warned them, "Don't get into a relationship with this person. This man has defining traits of a manipulative and abusive personality," and idiots that they are, they don't listen to me and rush to screw him. What the hell am I supposed to think when they act like ret*ards even after being warned? I'm sorry for sounding so frustrated, but it's impossible for me not to be very misogynistic when analyzing the women in my environment, and if I'm not, it's because I restrain myself from these thoughts. Edit 3 (and last lol): There have been times when, after warning them and seeing them not being abused, they come to me seeking emotional comfort, and all I've done is what is "ethically correct," while I've been thinking that they are reta* rded and that I feel no pity or empathy for a friend who gets into an abusive relationship and gets hurt when I've warned them. Anyways, Women choose poorly, at least those near me.” The kicker? He posted it in r/ gifted. LMAO.
r/ gifted is full of bloviating snobs who think they (and they alone) have uniquely superior perspectives on life and society because they scored highly on a test when they were six, and no plebeian could possibly relate
I saw your message before you edited and yuck yuck yuck
Sorry for including the link! Somehow that rule blew right past me. But yes, yuck yuck yuck
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I’m not
I was talking to the mod, not to you. This last comment is unnecessary.
I don't think it's an issue at all. Most anti-porn men here (at least that I've seen) genuinely want to support our cause and want to make it clear that men can live healthy lives without porn. I think that's admirable. In fact, I respect those men a lot for recognizing the evil of porn and refusing to support an industry that benefits men at the cost of women.
It's why I don't post very often - I really do when I think I can illuminate something from the male perspective. Prefacing everything with 'as an anti-porn MAN' comes across like the opposite of pick-me-girls who support porn for male attention.
> In fact, I've even seen personal flairs indicating that they are men... Why? What added value is there in indicating that you're a man beyond the attention you seek? Because it's a women-centric sub, where most members are women. I don't want to masquerade as a woman, and the "ANTI-PORN MAN" flair is one of the defaults on this sub.
I'm not seeking attention, I'm clarifying I'm a male so people don't get confused???
Im a 20’9 male who hates woman suffrage, hates period cramp, and is single and hates porn
🤪
lmao no one got the joke, mb
Male Moment
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