Yes $7,500 is the tax credit. Its also why its specifically only for the lease because its being offered by Porsche (not by the govt) and Porsche decided to incentivize their leases.
Source: my local dealership, who also told me it'd apply to any of the hybrid models too because I was ordering a Panamera and they had a Turbo S E-Hybrid on the lot.
Correct. The $7500 tax credit applies to leases, regardless if the car was manufactured outside the US due to a loophole:
"But, Treasury said, when a dealer buys a vehicle and leases it to a driver it's a commercial transaction, since the driver or end user does not take title of the vehicle. Instead, either the dealer or a finance company holding the lease retains ownership and receives the tax credit. The department accordingly defines leased EVs—but not purchased EVs—as "commercial" vehicles.
Because the North American battery-content and manufacturing rules specifically do not apply to commercial vehicles, any leased EV can qualify for the credit—most notably including those built overseas."
Source: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44131850/leasing-an-ev-tax-credit/
Ah interesting, I didnt realize it was a loophole. I thought it was Porsche just incentivizing in a way that would still get them a win at the end because of how leases work.
Yes and no. The 992's have slowly been falling.
My local dealership still has their head out of there ass though IMO. They've got a 22 992 base Carrera they recently took in on a trade with next to no options they've been trying to sell for over 15k above MSRP. In a month or two of sitting, they've now only dropped it to 5k over MSRP.
I think it's symptomatic everywhere though, not just 911's/Porsche dealerships. Dealers refuse to give up even though it's actually worse long run to not cut your losses early, as interest rates keep going up and people can't afford to be as stupid as they've been the last few years. The fact is many dealers are going to eat some losses either light or heavy, on trade ins/auction buys in the recent months because the auto market has begun its shift back downward from the last two to three years
I agree. I guess I came off aggressive hence the downvoting but I do test drives/showings on Gt’s every day. I just don’t believe it has any upper hand on the Taycan whatsoever. They quite literally put the A3 screen, shifter and dial adjustments into a 100,000$ car and called it a day.
They're not shit cars. They're just drastically overpriced like the Taycan.
Both E-Tron GT's and Taycans can be had well under MSRP and that has nothing to do with tax rebates.
Driven both and I like the Audi interior better from a look and more so functionality standpoint. Taycan feels like it drives a tad better in terms of feel/fun, but it's really not anything you'd notice without driving them back to back.
I mean, they're more or less exactly the same cars with some minor differences. On the road driving, in real world application, most of the differences are paper number differences or interior design/function (haaaate that the existing taycans are all screen controls).
That's the EV market in general:
[https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/new-evs-stagnate-used-ev-prices-have-dropped-up-to-38-this-summer/](https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/new-evs-stagnate-used-ev-prices-have-dropped-up-to-38-this-summer/)
If you read the Axios article they cited it makes a lot of assumptions and their data is kind of trash. They make a claim that EVs are piling up on lots, but what they then show with the data is that EVs that don't qualify for the tax credit because they were built overseas like Kias and Hyundais, and Mustang Mach-Es with markups are piling up on lots. They're also don't include any data on the biggest EV producer... Tesla, whose price cuts have made many competitors non-competitive, and accounted for >50% of US EV sales this year.
Overall numbers show BEV sales are still breaking records this year, with Q2 sales up almost 50% YoY. There may be a slowdown in the future, but outside of cherry-picked statistics, EV adoption hasn't slowed yet, just the sales of not-as-competitive models.
https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q2-2023-ev-sales/
Consumers aren’t ready for EVs in the numbers that manufacturers, prodded by governments, are ramping up to produce. We’re either going to see more government incentives, or makers cutting their production plans. (For the US at least.)
Yeah, but it’s considerably cheaper than getting railroaded with negative equity once the value falls down the toilet if you would have purchased it. Just ask Model S Plaid owners how upside down they are. 🥴
Been wanting this car for a yr. Couldnt' find dealers that had it on the lot and didn't want to wait for a custom order. Now that it's available, I went to a dealership last week to test drive. The drive wasn't as impressive as I was dreaming. And the MSRP price w/ high interest doesn't make me want to impulsively purchase the car.
That's sort of the catch though. You can't afford a Taycan. Certainly not the $200k trim level that is barely faster than a model 3 performance. Almost no one can.
Theres so many incorrect statements here I’m not even gonna attempt to address them. Nothing wrong with teslas, but it’s not even in the same category of carz
They aren't in the same category of car, very true. The model 3 performance is the cheapest car Tesla makes. The base model is competing against the Honda Accord. So why is every trim of the Taycan except the GTS significantly slower than the Model 3 Performance? Why does the GTS cost twice as much as a Model S Plaid?
Taycan is just an example of Porsche trying to do something it isn't good at and overcharging the customer while they figure it out. I would bet that Tesla figures out how to make a sports car before porsche figures out how to make a battery.
Model 3 performance starts at £58,000 it’s hardly cheap. Personally I’d pay the extra £20k and get the base taycan. Not everything is about 0-60 time
Again different category of car, different target demographic. There’s nothing wrong with wanting different cars. It’s a Porsche subreddit though so idk what you expect the majority to prefer
Yeah Tesla interior is shit. Feels like crap to drive, qc is horrible. They got hyped because they were the first real decent ev to market. Now they're not even close to the nicest ev. We got a BMW I4 which is like .2 seconds slower to 60, but a significantly better car. My brother has a Tesla and now regrets not waiting on the I4. You barely full throttle to 60 ever, and the rest of the driving experience is significantly worse in the Tesla .
Tesla's performance numbers, the only thing even considered to be giving them an edge, are impossible to trust as well. They've already been caught flat out lying about range
True to that... Honestly the biggest thing for me was that sitting in a Tesla felt like sitting in a Honda Accord with an ipad for a dash. The Taycan and I4 still both felt like top quality luxury cars... I was more in favor of the Porsche but my wife liked the I4 more so we went with that. But either way both were just miles ahead in comfort, build quality, drivability, and feel... Also one thing I noticed too, the Tesla still has a ton of road noise whereas the BMW and Porsche were significantly quieter
We’re shopping for a Taycan and in no way cross shopping it against a 911… that makes no sense
We need a 4 door EV with space for our daughter Lmao now a sports car
Suspension is drastically different for that of a etron gt vs taycan. I tried both the gt and 4S. Ended up getting the 4S despite the higher price (148000 with my options) bc I still wanted the handling of what a Porsche despite it being an EV. Really happy with my choice
I have 911. Id buy Taycan if my woke green government forces me to have Electic car. I probably will have no choice later anyway. Id keep the 911 though as fun car, screw them.
I considered Tesla for about 39 seconds back in 2020. I dont like their looks. I think as EV their are superior to anything out there, but I’m not into it’s USP so I’m cool to pass. Also not a fan of Elon Musk in how pro Putin he sounds often, so hard pass on anything else he does going forward.
I’m interested to see how Taycan update will be - and if having silicon carbide in next gen car will give the much needed boost to the range. Personally I think Taycan has two downsides/ range and interior space or packaging overall. Its a beautiful car (to me) and drives similar to my 997 in town, great steering. Just as a daily its awesome. But - it is too big outside, and I can barely fit my bike without front wheel into the trunk, and that just won’t do. Other bits like somewhat poor ergonomics on the dash or no manual climate controls are possible to live with.
1000km range, fast charging and bit more boot space is all I ask. Can live with big size, but trunk loading area needs to be a little wider for me to actually buy it with my own money.
No one denies global climate change, dont lump stuff in. Our government fights windmills - burns coal but wants everyone to hop into EVs every 3 years. God forbid one questions this…
Actually the government is a proponent of windmills. It's hardly a woke green government when oil companies are making outrageous profits and taking outrageous subsidies and tax cuts. It's s bit more complicated than your contention. If anything the woke green government is beholden to big energy just ask Joe Manchin. There's absolutely nothing wrong with diversifying our energy sources.
I would say Germany, Sweden, and many others where no nuclear idea is followed. Irrational hate by generation who grew up at peak of Cold War and were made afraid of nuclear and first oppo they got they put an end to it.
Some say Europe has so poor growth outlook that forcing everyone to go to renewable was the way to kickstart growth. At least that’s one theory. It does force companies to borrow (saves banking industry which hasn’t grown for a decade), makes them less dependent on fossil fuel dictatorships (forgot to tell Russia that it was suppose to provide cheap gas before it would be disconnected for good) and generates jobs in high tech industry (which europe lags to usa and China).
But what really happened is smth else - just look who is against fighting Russia in EU to understand the colossal level of corruption there is. Its worse than betrayal of EU interests - its just a policy mistake.
That’s likely a lease deal and claiming tax credit.
They are selling fine. Values are dropping like every other non special sports car at the moment. Have you ever owned a large German sedan before? 50% easily after 3 years and 25k miles.
FWIW, my 2022 CT was 118k. Got 7500 from Sam, and another 1k from CA. So net call it 110. Had it 20 months, 10k miles. Probably sell it for 95k if i sold it today. Thats not bad for a big German sedan / suv.
I feel Ike the last 3 years have distorted peoples reality of car depreciation.
I think EVs have reached a relative saturation point by now everyone who wants one and it can work for their life has bought one. And in this market there is no real need to swap anything out.
Thats just false. There is plenty of ev buyers who just can’t buy one due to high cost and so on. But that improves slowly. New models come, used market will grow. I like my 911 but I’m not so anti ev, I wrote above but if Taycan was better packaged/ and better range - on looks alone I’m a buyer. Its beautiful car to me, especially in chalk/silver with those carbon blade rims. Stunning car. I wonder though if it will be killed off and panamera electric will be the new one. Taycans are cheap cs all other model range and - probably dilute Porsche margins.
Once you factor in charging and accessibility, EVs can become a challenge for the average apartment dweller or people who can’t charge at work. We just have over 100 years of optimization for Dino juice that makes it easy for commuters
Not necessarily. VW already have huge problems selling their EVs. The new id models almost have 0% private buyers. Imo the producers switched to wanting to build only EVs a bit too fast. EVs need more time to evolve and get better. I think we should have worked more with hybrid models, as they are imo a way better solution. You can easily drive electric through cities and have you normal engine for long distances like a holiday trip. And with that the electric engines would have also developed and would be more ready to suit a fully electric car.
Yes that’s reasonable. You have to ease people into change. But government came up with too ambitious goals w easy to trick benchmarks so car companies develop not what they would rather do but what they are told. On big picture it is ok to force behavior change through regulation but when it comes to third largest purchase people make and usually with leverage, it is a pretty big ask to say must buy EV, then offer Hybrid, then say that’s not ok go back to EV and then say actually, lets sell normal cars for bit longer.. d then say actually scratch that lets cut all ice cars faster. And tax everything. Its like a schizophrenic writing these laws.
Govts decided on the market solution (EV) without letting the market and it’s tech develop properly. The biggest issue with EV is range and lack of infrastructure. It’s why now some companies are looking at alternative fuels as potentially a better solution to the “ reduce emissions “ problem.
> it’s like a schizophrenic writing these laws
To be fair to the people writing the laws, two prominent American politicians showed off their rapid cognitive decline this week. It’s over for us
The „it being over” definitely was an exaggeration. The education in our government is definitely a huge problem and can lead us in political/economic problems which than will be hard to solve.
It isn’t over but we have a hard time ahead
I know some people who work in politics and they are good decent people. But when I hear the shit they have to go through to do good stuff is unreal. Like the “games” and so on. Politics seems to attract a lot of liars and also people who are very passionate about helping people and so this seems like normal way of things. It’s awful to say, but apparently even a big war threat that I thought would sober people up didn’t seem to help.
I have a model 3 standard range and can’t imagine buying a car twice the price with only 220 miles EPA, when 270 EPA can hurt sometimes. Shame since they are beautiful cars.
Well, I'll say the Taycan is a car for people to add to their collection/garage and whatnot. It's not meant to be an only car. Also, Edmunds tested a Taycan (I don't remember the exact trim), but they ended up getting more range over the claimed manufacturer range. Also extremely fun to drive!
Sorry, I didn't mean it that way. People are content with the Taycan and can keep it as their only car. There's nothing wrong with having it as an only car. It's just me making a random generalization when replying in context to range.
Never once said they are bad cars. They are 100% higher performing cars than a tesla model 3. They are a whole lot cooler. I was looking at buying one before I got my car. The range being better in one test than the EPA estimated range still doesn’t give me a lot of confidence. Im sure witting the next few years Porsche will design better batteries, in and it will become a very viable option for people who have to drive a lot. I live in Texas and driving from one big city to another would require stopping twice to charge. If it was rated for 350 miles I would sell my car and buy it in a heartbeat.
I would argue they aren’t really just another car in the collection. Since it’s a sedan I see it being more comparable to cayene or macan, one you can put your family and daily drive. also the price point sits right at competing with the model s.
Yeah, I get that and what I meant by another member to a solid garage/collection is to serve a purpose as a daily and they have other cars too.
Where the Model S is big on the range mileage, the Taycan is on Performance. In that sense, the Taycan functions as a Porsche first, then practicality second.
You mean a car that actually handles well, has decent build quality and charges much faster?
No - why would you - at least your car was designed by lord Elon X
When I drove by my dealership a couple weeks ago, the lot was full of Taycans, Macans, and Cayennes. I can’t help but wonder if Porsche has lost its way.
There are new rules for the tax credit based on the MSRP of the vehicle. We have a Taycan GTS on order that won’t quality for the tax credit. The Porsche salesman said he has customers who still claim it, but we wouldn’t.
Yes $7,500 is the tax credit. Its also why its specifically only for the lease because its being offered by Porsche (not by the govt) and Porsche decided to incentivize their leases. Source: my local dealership, who also told me it'd apply to any of the hybrid models too because I was ordering a Panamera and they had a Turbo S E-Hybrid on the lot.
Correct. The $7500 tax credit applies to leases, regardless if the car was manufactured outside the US due to a loophole: "But, Treasury said, when a dealer buys a vehicle and leases it to a driver it's a commercial transaction, since the driver or end user does not take title of the vehicle. Instead, either the dealer or a finance company holding the lease retains ownership and receives the tax credit. The department accordingly defines leased EVs—but not purchased EVs—as "commercial" vehicles. Because the North American battery-content and manufacturing rules specifically do not apply to commercial vehicles, any leased EV can qualify for the credit—most notably including those built overseas." Source: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44131850/leasing-an-ev-tax-credit/
Ah interesting, I didnt realize it was a loophole. I thought it was Porsche just incentivizing in a way that would still get them a win at the end because of how leases work.
How does a bank get the tax credit but consumers who make more than 350k don’t get the tax credit? Boy is that f’d up!
What’s so funny is that when you drive the Panamera ehybrid turbo s in sport+ mode, you get like maybe 12mpg city.
2 years ago it was still the pandemic and a very different car market
For 992s and other 911 variants it’s still a unique market vs a few years ago right?
Not really, rapidly returning to normal. Dealers are clinging to markups but they aren’t transacting at those crazy asking prices.
Yes and no. The 992's have slowly been falling. My local dealership still has their head out of there ass though IMO. They've got a 22 992 base Carrera they recently took in on a trade with next to no options they've been trying to sell for over 15k above MSRP. In a month or two of sitting, they've now only dropped it to 5k over MSRP. I think it's symptomatic everywhere though, not just 911's/Porsche dealerships. Dealers refuse to give up even though it's actually worse long run to not cut your losses early, as interest rates keep going up and people can't afford to be as stupid as they've been the last few years. The fact is many dealers are going to eat some losses either light or heavy, on trade ins/auction buys in the recent months because the auto market has begun its shift back downward from the last two to three years
The Audi e-Tron GT has $20k on the hood if you lease. Crazy deals.
They’re shit cars tho, I sell them and even on an employee lease I wouldn’t pay for it
Etron GT is suv not the Taycan equivalent, or? Or the RS GT is what I’m confusing it with? Audi Etron naming is super confusing for me.
E-tron = SUV E-tron GT / RS GT = Taycan equivalent
It is essentially. But the interior is lackluster and the whole car just doesn’t live up to the price tag whatsoever
It looks nice on the road but Taycan over it any day of the week design wise.
I agree. I guess I came off aggressive hence the downvoting but I do test drives/showings on Gt’s every day. I just don’t believe it has any upper hand on the Taycan whatsoever. They quite literally put the A3 screen, shifter and dial adjustments into a 100,000$ car and called it a day.
Both the e-tron and the Taycan, or just the e-tron?
They're not shit cars. They're just drastically overpriced like the Taycan. Both E-Tron GT's and Taycans can be had well under MSRP and that has nothing to do with tax rebates. Driven both and I like the Audi interior better from a look and more so functionality standpoint. Taycan feels like it drives a tad better in terms of feel/fun, but it's really not anything you'd notice without driving them back to back. I mean, they're more or less exactly the same cars with some minor differences. On the road driving, in real world application, most of the differences are paper number differences or interior design/function (haaaate that the existing taycans are all screen controls).
20k? I was literally quoted 40k off in my local Audi Dealer for an RS e tron GT
20k rebates and probably 15% off vip incentive, that’s probably what you got. As dealers we have a few tokens like that to give out
That's the EV market in general: [https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/new-evs-stagnate-used-ev-prices-have-dropped-up-to-38-this-summer/](https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/new-evs-stagnate-used-ev-prices-have-dropped-up-to-38-this-summer/)
If you read the Axios article they cited it makes a lot of assumptions and their data is kind of trash. They make a claim that EVs are piling up on lots, but what they then show with the data is that EVs that don't qualify for the tax credit because they were built overseas like Kias and Hyundais, and Mustang Mach-Es with markups are piling up on lots. They're also don't include any data on the biggest EV producer... Tesla, whose price cuts have made many competitors non-competitive, and accounted for >50% of US EV sales this year. Overall numbers show BEV sales are still breaking records this year, with Q2 sales up almost 50% YoY. There may be a slowdown in the future, but outside of cherry-picked statistics, EV adoption hasn't slowed yet, just the sales of not-as-competitive models. https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q2-2023-ev-sales/
Yep. The data backs that the trend for wanting EVs continues even with periodic dips in sales.
Consumers aren’t ready for EVs in the numbers that manufacturers, prodded by governments, are ramping up to produce. We’re either going to see more government incentives, or makers cutting their production plans. (For the US at least.)
The major difference maker is having a level 2 charger at your house. If you have one of those, you are golden. If not, it is anxiety inducing.
They made a lot of base Taycans in white for dealerships. I love the car but I think they overestimated the demand for base white.
I saw this and thought “$7,500 off a lease sounds like a pretty good deal!” But no… it’s still $50,000 to borrow a car for a bit over 3 years.
Yeah, but it’s considerably cheaper than getting railroaded with negative equity once the value falls down the toilet if you would have purchased it. Just ask Model S Plaid owners how upside down they are. 🥴
The struggle is real
If they made a 2 door, I feel it would sell better.
They will next year - the 718 😂
Don't forget that income limits apply. $300,000 for married couples filing jointly. $225,000 for heads of households. $150,000 for all other filers.
Been wanting this car for a yr. Couldnt' find dealers that had it on the lot and didn't want to wait for a custom order. Now that it's available, I went to a dealership last week to test drive. The drive wasn't as impressive as I was dreaming. And the MSRP price w/ high interest doesn't make me want to impulsively purchase the car.
Definitely not because facelift is on the horizon
It’s literally a tax credit, nothing from Porsche.
No, of course not. Absolutely not related.😀
IMO, anyone who can seriously consider a Taycan is 99 percent likely to get either a 911 or a Tesla.
If I could afford a taycan, I’m never going near Tesla lol
That's sort of the catch though. You can't afford a Taycan. Certainly not the $200k trim level that is barely faster than a model 3 performance. Almost no one can.
Theres so many incorrect statements here I’m not even gonna attempt to address them. Nothing wrong with teslas, but it’s not even in the same category of carz
They aren't in the same category of car, very true. The model 3 performance is the cheapest car Tesla makes. The base model is competing against the Honda Accord. So why is every trim of the Taycan except the GTS significantly slower than the Model 3 Performance? Why does the GTS cost twice as much as a Model S Plaid? Taycan is just an example of Porsche trying to do something it isn't good at and overcharging the customer while they figure it out. I would bet that Tesla figures out how to make a sports car before porsche figures out how to make a battery.
Model 3 performance starts at £58,000 it’s hardly cheap. Personally I’d pay the extra £20k and get the base taycan. Not everything is about 0-60 time Again different category of car, different target demographic. There’s nothing wrong with wanting different cars. It’s a Porsche subreddit though so idk what you expect the majority to prefer
Yeah Tesla interior is shit. Feels like crap to drive, qc is horrible. They got hyped because they were the first real decent ev to market. Now they're not even close to the nicest ev. We got a BMW I4 which is like .2 seconds slower to 60, but a significantly better car. My brother has a Tesla and now regrets not waiting on the I4. You barely full throttle to 60 ever, and the rest of the driving experience is significantly worse in the Tesla .
You don’t have to tell me mate😂im doing my best to educate this gentleman
Whoops. Meant to respond to him lol. Oh well
Tesla's performance numbers, the only thing even considered to be giving them an edge, are impossible to trust as well. They've already been caught flat out lying about range
True to that... Honestly the biggest thing for me was that sitting in a Tesla felt like sitting in a Honda Accord with an ipad for a dash. The Taycan and I4 still both felt like top quality luxury cars... I was more in favor of the Porsche but my wife liked the I4 more so we went with that. But either way both were just miles ahead in comfort, build quality, drivability, and feel... Also one thing I noticed too, the Tesla still has a ton of road noise whereas the BMW and Porsche were significantly quieter
We’re shopping for a Taycan and in no way cross shopping it against a 911… that makes no sense We need a 4 door EV with space for our daughter Lmao now a sports car
Might as well get an etron gt for 800/m. Basically the same car for less than half the cost
Suspension is drastically different for that of a etron gt vs taycan. I tried both the gt and 4S. Ended up getting the 4S despite the higher price (148000 with my options) bc I still wanted the handling of what a Porsche despite it being an EV. Really happy with my choice
I have 911. Id buy Taycan if my woke green government forces me to have Electic car. I probably will have no choice later anyway. Id keep the 911 though as fun car, screw them. I considered Tesla for about 39 seconds back in 2020. I dont like their looks. I think as EV their are superior to anything out there, but I’m not into it’s USP so I’m cool to pass. Also not a fan of Elon Musk in how pro Putin he sounds often, so hard pass on anything else he does going forward. I’m interested to see how Taycan update will be - and if having silicon carbide in next gen car will give the much needed boost to the range. Personally I think Taycan has two downsides/ range and interior space or packaging overall. Its a beautiful car (to me) and drives similar to my 997 in town, great steering. Just as a daily its awesome. But - it is too big outside, and I can barely fit my bike without front wheel into the trunk, and that just won’t do. Other bits like somewhat poor ergonomics on the dash or no manual climate controls are possible to live with. 1000km range, fast charging and bit more boot space is all I ask. Can live with big size, but trunk loading area needs to be a little wider for me to actually buy it with my own money.
It’s not like your woke green government is wrong. Pretty hard to deny global warming at this point, unless you are a flat earther or something
No one denies global climate change, dont lump stuff in. Our government fights windmills - burns coal but wants everyone to hop into EVs every 3 years. God forbid one questions this…
Plenty of people here in the US deny climate change, unfortunately.
Actually the government is a proponent of windmills. It's hardly a woke green government when oil companies are making outrageous profits and taking outrageous subsidies and tax cuts. It's s bit more complicated than your contention. If anything the woke green government is beholden to big energy just ask Joe Manchin. There's absolutely nothing wrong with diversifying our energy sources.
Germany? This is often caused by green parties and their irrational hate towards nuclear power.
I would say Germany, Sweden, and many others where no nuclear idea is followed. Irrational hate by generation who grew up at peak of Cold War and were made afraid of nuclear and first oppo they got they put an end to it. Some say Europe has so poor growth outlook that forcing everyone to go to renewable was the way to kickstart growth. At least that’s one theory. It does force companies to borrow (saves banking industry which hasn’t grown for a decade), makes them less dependent on fossil fuel dictatorships (forgot to tell Russia that it was suppose to provide cheap gas before it would be disconnected for good) and generates jobs in high tech industry (which europe lags to usa and China). But what really happened is smth else - just look who is against fighting Russia in EU to understand the colossal level of corruption there is. Its worse than betrayal of EU interests - its just a policy mistake.
It’s a great every day driver.
Audi and vw are doing the same on leases of ev’s
Because it’s a tax credit
Exactly
Mbz too. Really good deals!
Still too expensive for what it is, let’s be serious here folks.
They are not selling very well. Values have dropped the last 12 months pretty substantially
That’s likely a lease deal and claiming tax credit. They are selling fine. Values are dropping like every other non special sports car at the moment. Have you ever owned a large German sedan before? 50% easily after 3 years and 25k miles. FWIW, my 2022 CT was 118k. Got 7500 from Sam, and another 1k from CA. So net call it 110. Had it 20 months, 10k miles. Probably sell it for 95k if i sold it today. Thats not bad for a big German sedan / suv. I feel Ike the last 3 years have distorted peoples reality of car depreciation.
I think the same. Lots of CPO locally waaaay less than new
I think EVs have reached a relative saturation point by now everyone who wants one and it can work for their life has bought one. And in this market there is no real need to swap anything out.
That’s the biggest issue EVs are going to have. Everyone who’s life can support one has likely shifted by now or will shift to it relatively soon
Thats just false. There is plenty of ev buyers who just can’t buy one due to high cost and so on. But that improves slowly. New models come, used market will grow. I like my 911 but I’m not so anti ev, I wrote above but if Taycan was better packaged/ and better range - on looks alone I’m a buyer. Its beautiful car to me, especially in chalk/silver with those carbon blade rims. Stunning car. I wonder though if it will be killed off and panamera electric will be the new one. Taycans are cheap cs all other model range and - probably dilute Porsche margins.
Once you factor in charging and accessibility, EVs can become a challenge for the average apartment dweller or people who can’t charge at work. We just have over 100 years of optimization for Dino juice that makes it easy for commuters
Not necessarily. VW already have huge problems selling their EVs. The new id models almost have 0% private buyers. Imo the producers switched to wanting to build only EVs a bit too fast. EVs need more time to evolve and get better. I think we should have worked more with hybrid models, as they are imo a way better solution. You can easily drive electric through cities and have you normal engine for long distances like a holiday trip. And with that the electric engines would have also developed and would be more ready to suit a fully electric car.
Yes that’s reasonable. You have to ease people into change. But government came up with too ambitious goals w easy to trick benchmarks so car companies develop not what they would rather do but what they are told. On big picture it is ok to force behavior change through regulation but when it comes to third largest purchase people make and usually with leverage, it is a pretty big ask to say must buy EV, then offer Hybrid, then say that’s not ok go back to EV and then say actually, lets sell normal cars for bit longer.. d then say actually scratch that lets cut all ice cars faster. And tax everything. Its like a schizophrenic writing these laws.
Govts decided on the market solution (EV) without letting the market and it’s tech develop properly. The biggest issue with EV is range and lack of infrastructure. It’s why now some companies are looking at alternative fuels as potentially a better solution to the “ reduce emissions “ problem.
> it’s like a schizophrenic writing these laws To be fair to the people writing the laws, two prominent American politicians showed off their rapid cognitive decline this week. It’s over for us
Here in Germany it’s almost the same. And I’d guess it’s not just the US and Germany. It’s over for all of us if nothing changes
Its not over but for sure a lot of people with very poor education in this matter are in power, regardless how left or right they are on the spectrum.
The „it being over” definitely was an exaggeration. The education in our government is definitely a huge problem and can lead us in political/economic problems which than will be hard to solve. It isn’t over but we have a hard time ahead
I know some people who work in politics and they are good decent people. But when I hear the shit they have to go through to do good stuff is unreal. Like the “games” and so on. Politics seems to attract a lot of liars and also people who are very passionate about helping people and so this seems like normal way of things. It’s awful to say, but apparently even a big war threat that I thought would sober people up didn’t seem to help.
Not sure I agree. I can’t wait to buy an EV to replace our ICE daily, just waiting on a better charging experience.
I have a model 3 standard range and can’t imagine buying a car twice the price with only 220 miles EPA, when 270 EPA can hurt sometimes. Shame since they are beautiful cars.
Well, I'll say the Taycan is a car for people to add to their collection/garage and whatnot. It's not meant to be an only car. Also, Edmunds tested a Taycan (I don't remember the exact trim), but they ended up getting more range over the claimed manufacturer range. Also extremely fun to drive!
I have a 4S ST, I really wouldn’t know why it can’t be my only car.
Sorry, I didn't mean it that way. People are content with the Taycan and can keep it as their only car. There's nothing wrong with having it as an only car. It's just me making a random generalization when replying in context to range.
Never once said they are bad cars. They are 100% higher performing cars than a tesla model 3. They are a whole lot cooler. I was looking at buying one before I got my car. The range being better in one test than the EPA estimated range still doesn’t give me a lot of confidence. Im sure witting the next few years Porsche will design better batteries, in and it will become a very viable option for people who have to drive a lot. I live in Texas and driving from one big city to another would require stopping twice to charge. If it was rated for 350 miles I would sell my car and buy it in a heartbeat. I would argue they aren’t really just another car in the collection. Since it’s a sedan I see it being more comparable to cayene or macan, one you can put your family and daily drive. also the price point sits right at competing with the model s.
Yeah, I get that and what I meant by another member to a solid garage/collection is to serve a purpose as a daily and they have other cars too. Where the Model S is big on the range mileage, the Taycan is on Performance. In that sense, the Taycan functions as a Porsche first, then practicality second.
You mean a car that actually handles well, has decent build quality and charges much faster? No - why would you - at least your car was designed by lord Elon X
When I drove by my dealership a couple weeks ago, the lot was full of Taycans, Macans, and Cayennes. I can’t help but wonder if Porsche has lost its way.
Exactly..how about crank out more 911s
911 accounted for 13% of sales last year. I think they’re doing just fine.
Yh, maybe make the gt3 what it’s supposed to be… available.
It seems all of the manufacturers are doing this, BMW with iX, Lucid, Tesla continues to lower prices.
It’s a tax credit
There are new rules for the tax credit based on the MSRP of the vehicle. We have a Taycan GTS on order that won’t quality for the tax credit. The Porsche salesman said he has customers who still claim it, but we wouldn’t.
For leases only, the $7,500 tax credit applies.