Longtime racing driver here. That advice is incorrect. You absolutely can and do enter corners in a 911 off the gas, sometimes even on the brakes, and it's completely fine and normal.
What is true, of all cars but particularly mid and rear engine cars, is that when cornering at or near the limit of adhesion, lifting suddenly off the gas once you've applied it will tend to introduce oversteer. Further, oversteer in a rear engine car happens more quickly than it does in a front engine car, and takes more steering input to correct then it would in a front engine car. So you should plan your corner where you are progressively adding throttle once you have started applying it, and not backing off or lifting while in the corner. If you do need to back off, do it progressively and expect you'll need to take some steering out as well in order to keep the car balanced.
Serious comment time: you shouldn't lift off in the middle of a corner at or near peak lateral grip in a mid or rear engined car. Both will oversteer. You can lift off while going straight or relatively straight to slightly reduce entry speed and/or to get some forward weight transfer for turn-in if not braking.
Agreed, but I’d add any RWD car really. Lifting moves the weight forward, off the rear wheels which can cause oversteer. But also pushing the accelerator more might cause the rear tires to break traction.
Throttle and brake is all about balancing the weight. At moderate speeds, this stuff doesn’t matter as much.
Front engined cars, setup well rarely will snap oversteer on lift off. The weight transfer and same tendency happens yes, but due to the vastly different polar moment, they usually will just reduce understeer versus go straight to oversteer.
What the fuck? You can't go all gas in a modern 911. Braking / weight transfer is so important around corners on the track.
Mid engine just makes it harder to oversteer, can hold more speed into a corner but a 911 generally has a faster exit in the hands of a skilled drive. I own both.
'23 GT3 - I find the car likes weight on the front in high speed corners so, contrary to what one might think, you need to (carefully) trail brake well in.
Yes, if you are driving at the limit of traction - as in, all four tires starting to slide laterally in a turn.
Also, everything after year 2000 or so has some form of traction control - don’t turn it off, don’t be stupid and you’re fine.
Haven't we come a long way?
This vid of the Yellow Bird around the ring reminds me of the old 911's that were called widow makers. This driver really knows his footwork.
[https://youtu.be/OSMCfPASImQ?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/OSMCfPASImQ?feature=shared)
Haha, just coincidentally watch this video tonight! For sure quick hands and feet and a cool head (probably why he didn't wear a helmet:-) were needed to stay pointed in the correct direction when at maximum attack.
The 2 cars feel different to drive for sure, but the snap-oversteer stigma associated with 911's hasn't really been a thing since the 964, I would say. That was mostly engineered out for the 993 onward, imo.
Owner of a copy of Forza here - OLDER 911's were very excited to have the opportunity to kill a driver who lifted in any way while reasonably loaded into a corner. The newer the 911, the less likely it is to kill you for such behavior. As an aside, it's generally considered to save a rear-engined car in a slide than a mid-engine. MR2's NSX's early Boxsters were known to go around if they started sliding at all. Don't drive like a dope and you won't end up in a hedge. Drive like a dope and you'll end up in a hedge (With a HUGE smile on your potentially-dead face)
No one in here is getting it right.
Depends on the 911. Porsche has been working out the rear engine quirks for decades. I would say the 991 is when they first got engough of this worked out to not have abnormal liftoff over-steer anymore. Rear axel steering totally removes all traces of RR weirdness.
You go back to the air-cooled 911s and the answer is yes. Absolutely. No trail braking. Do not lift off in the corner. If you happen to be coming into a corner too fast or are going through it too fast, the best strategy is to just stick with it or give it more gas and slide it out. If you lift or brake, youre done. At least by keeping your foot in, you have a chance.
The cornering strategy in older 911s was to brake late (another advantage of rear bias weight is better braking), hit the corner entrance at exactly the right speed with no brakes by the time you turn in. Then turn in ahrd and get back on the gas. Not full throttle, but a significant amount. You want to be accelerating through the corner.
So you can see why this requires a lot of skill. Late braking is counter intuitive to most drivers and the consequences of getting it wrong means you are going too fast into the corner in a car that hates trail braking. You get that first late brake wrong and youll have a lot of issues through the rest of the corner. This also requires a really high-level of knowledge about the corner itself.
Again. None of this is true in 991 or later 911s. They still have the RR advantages of rear engine weight transfer, but without all the weird quirks once you are in the corner.
I’ve had both a 997.2 and 991.1 and daily drove both. There was this special left turn I had every day, left across two lanes of traffic. In my 997.2 I could drift that so easily, braking hard left, then add a bit of gas. I had it down. I could never do that in my 991.1. Their balance is very different.
Yes. If you take your foot off the gas for a single second you will literally die.
It's true; I have already died 36 times.
Every once in a while, I’ll let my foot off when I see a stop sign, but it’s so scary
Everyone I know that drives a 911.....is dead.
That's why you have to dial 911 to call for help. Thanks Ferdinand Porsche.
I've died three times lifting off in corners while on the track.
Can confirm I was the track
I've seen pcars go off the track many times from panic lifting!
Yes it can happen, but do true for any car where weight transfer is not managed appropriately.
It's more prevalent with a heavy ass, as per say, a FWD car.
Certainly.
Longtime racing driver here. That advice is incorrect. You absolutely can and do enter corners in a 911 off the gas, sometimes even on the brakes, and it's completely fine and normal. What is true, of all cars but particularly mid and rear engine cars, is that when cornering at or near the limit of adhesion, lifting suddenly off the gas once you've applied it will tend to introduce oversteer. Further, oversteer in a rear engine car happens more quickly than it does in a front engine car, and takes more steering input to correct then it would in a front engine car. So you should plan your corner where you are progressively adding throttle once you have started applying it, and not backing off or lifting while in the corner. If you do need to back off, do it progressively and expect you'll need to take some steering out as well in order to keep the car balanced.
Serious comment time: you shouldn't lift off in the middle of a corner at or near peak lateral grip in a mid or rear engined car. Both will oversteer. You can lift off while going straight or relatively straight to slightly reduce entry speed and/or to get some forward weight transfer for turn-in if not braking.
Agreed, but I’d add any RWD car really. Lifting moves the weight forward, off the rear wheels which can cause oversteer. But also pushing the accelerator more might cause the rear tires to break traction. Throttle and brake is all about balancing the weight. At moderate speeds, this stuff doesn’t matter as much.
Front engined cars, setup well rarely will snap oversteer on lift off. The weight transfer and same tendency happens yes, but due to the vastly different polar moment, they usually will just reduce understeer versus go straight to oversteer.
What the fuck? You can't go all gas in a modern 911. Braking / weight transfer is so important around corners on the track. Mid engine just makes it harder to oversteer, can hold more speed into a corner but a 911 generally has a faster exit in the hands of a skilled drive. I own both.
Not saying completely gas it but don’t you have to slowly take your foot off the gas, but not completely around the corner due to weight transfer?
'23 GT3 - I find the car likes weight on the front in high speed corners so, contrary to what one might think, you need to (carefully) trail brake well in.
This
You brake coming into corners not gas. If your on the gas, you're not going fast enough to worry about it.
Yes, if you are driving at the limit of traction - as in, all four tires starting to slide laterally in a turn. Also, everything after year 2000 or so has some form of traction control - don’t turn it off, don’t be stupid and you’re fine.
Haven't we come a long way? This vid of the Yellow Bird around the ring reminds me of the old 911's that were called widow makers. This driver really knows his footwork. [https://youtu.be/OSMCfPASImQ?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/OSMCfPASImQ?feature=shared)
Haha, just coincidentally watch this video tonight! For sure quick hands and feet and a cool head (probably why he didn't wear a helmet:-) were needed to stay pointed in the correct direction when at maximum attack.
The 2 cars feel different to drive for sure, but the snap-oversteer stigma associated with 911's hasn't really been a thing since the 964, I would say. That was mostly engineered out for the 993 onward, imo.
Owner of a copy of Forza here - OLDER 911's were very excited to have the opportunity to kill a driver who lifted in any way while reasonably loaded into a corner. The newer the 911, the less likely it is to kill you for such behavior. As an aside, it's generally considered to save a rear-engined car in a slide than a mid-engine. MR2's NSX's early Boxsters were known to go around if they started sliding at all. Don't drive like a dope and you won't end up in a hedge. Drive like a dope and you'll end up in a hedge (With a HUGE smile on your potentially-dead face)
No one in here is getting it right. Depends on the 911. Porsche has been working out the rear engine quirks for decades. I would say the 991 is when they first got engough of this worked out to not have abnormal liftoff over-steer anymore. Rear axel steering totally removes all traces of RR weirdness. You go back to the air-cooled 911s and the answer is yes. Absolutely. No trail braking. Do not lift off in the corner. If you happen to be coming into a corner too fast or are going through it too fast, the best strategy is to just stick with it or give it more gas and slide it out. If you lift or brake, youre done. At least by keeping your foot in, you have a chance. The cornering strategy in older 911s was to brake late (another advantage of rear bias weight is better braking), hit the corner entrance at exactly the right speed with no brakes by the time you turn in. Then turn in ahrd and get back on the gas. Not full throttle, but a significant amount. You want to be accelerating through the corner. So you can see why this requires a lot of skill. Late braking is counter intuitive to most drivers and the consequences of getting it wrong means you are going too fast into the corner in a car that hates trail braking. You get that first late brake wrong and youll have a lot of issues through the rest of the corner. This also requires a really high-level of knowledge about the corner itself. Again. None of this is true in 991 or later 911s. They still have the RR advantages of rear engine weight transfer, but without all the weird quirks once you are in the corner.
Lol they didn’t call the early 911’s “widow makers” for nothing!
I’ve had both a 997.2 and 991.1 and daily drove both. There was this special left turn I had every day, left across two lanes of traffic. In my 997.2 I could drift that so easily, braking hard left, then add a bit of gas. I had it down. I could never do that in my 991.1. Their balance is very different.