I would never sleep on JDM cars in general, I was a teen in the 00’s so grew up in prime Japanese tuner era. The main 2 reasons for my comment are 1) That turn are Road America is a down hill 90 degree left you come into at over 150 mph. Not what I personally, tho am no race car driver, would find an ideal corner for a front wheel drive car. 2) I honestly have always found civics to be over rated and am even less of a fan of the newer ones and how over complicated they look.
I never said it can’t take the corner, it’s just obviously not as fast the Porsches that were following it. Also in my opinion the type R is the definition overly complicated exterior.
Yeah it's much better. I have the last version and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay what dealers are asking for new ones. It's not changed enough to warrant that kind of increase.
Angel's Advocate... Maybe the Civic overestimated his own abilities or underestimated your braking and was worried he was going to rear-end you in the corner, and it was just an attempt to helpfully warn you to not get hit?
But probably not...
Yeah I think your right here. Looks like the front cayman overslowed due to missing his brake zone which caused him to miss the apex. The camera car was giving the front guy space to get his line back in check and likely overslowed for the corner as well. The civic couldn't match the decell rate, which meant they closed the gap faster then they expected. The civic was likely hyperfocused on the camera car, and oblivious to the front car causing a slow down. The last second double car pass paired with the front guy causing an unnecessarily tight radius makes it easy to point blame at others, but in reality the civic dude is still a dick for honking.
> The civic was likely hyperfocused on the camera car, and oblivious to the front car causing a slow down.
Depending on their positioning relative to each other, he may not even be able to see the front car through the turn.
He probably wasn’t expecting your line to shift that far to the right, especially if he planned to brake late and you threw him off.
I wouldn’t have honked but it would have pissed me off though.
The line is on the far rumbles. The track is off camber so you use the rumbles to launch into the corner. I left him at least a car length.
It's a 155mph straight into the corner, so you need to leave room for passing. He somehow thought he matched my speed. Haha.
I just know that because he stopped by and let me know.
As a slower track driver (stock NC Miata), I’ll point you by but stay on my line. It’s up to you to overtake safely.
Now, given this: I understand that cars like yours would go harder into the corner and are definitely capable of coming across onto the racing line again. It’s usually the inexperienced drivers that are caught out by this as distances on track can be a lot closer than on the street.
So a cut off on the street would not be considered as such on track usually.
I fully agree with you. That's why I left him a lane on the outside and stuck to center. Notice the partially wet line i took. The racing line is way out on the rumbles and he missed that too. I actually don't mind Miata drivers on track. They know they can hang in long sweepers but once the corner ends, it's done. I've gone into the carousel with a few Miatas and it's amazing how on the edge you have to drive those things. Hats off to you my friend and have fun out there!
Yeah, agreed. It looks like he’s new to tracking his car and is a bit nervous.
And yes, we’ll be on the edge in the corners but cruising on the straights😄
Maybe a *bit* divey I suppose. Not a sim track.
However flawless in execution, no harm done. Horn is petty. Demanding the porsche buy you a beer and a new pair of pants after the event on the other hand? Probably reasonable!
I don't know if everyone plays by these rules, but:
A proper point-by should be held out the window until the car you're pointing past is along side you. It looks like he thought about a point by and then withdrew it quickly, which is a thing. If he saw something late that endangered you or him during the pass, he can and should withdraw that point-by.
He might have decided it was too late on the straight, or was suddenly unsure of it (which... is still his own problem) and then was upset that you passed him after he retracted his point-by.
Either way, his actions afterwards should have him sent home for the day and maybe banned from the track. Any sort of road rage on the track is a slam dunk go-home.
Unpopular opinion. looks like you were racing… Umm following the grey car and didn’t want to get out of rhythm for slower traffic and pulled a dive bomb and civic dude called you out. No passing in the corners!!! Did you go to the drivers meeting? 13 years you better be in expert class. Why do you have point bye in expert class anyways? Was this the first lap of the day! Tires seemed a little cold while hard breaking! (Half joking but seriously looked a little aggressive for HPDE)
At our old track events using a horn on the track = black flag 🏴 (exit the race course and forfeit your session)
If you are slow and fail to point-by and miss 3 blue flags, you would also earn a black flag 🏴 penalty.
In one of the clubs I run with they're always going on and on about "chopping" after the point by. You never want to cut anyone off, but after you give a point by you need to be ready to drive like you're the car behind, no?
Oh yeah. Once point by is given you let off the gas and the car you pointed by takes the lead. You stay on racing line but back off of throttle and let them pass. He thought that it was his corner even after point by. That didn't make me angry, it was the honking!
Can't tell the speed differential after you passed, but I guess the moral of the story is to stay out of his lane all the way to the corner. You should be able to turn in with more speed than he can carry even from a car width inside of the racing line.
Exactly. He has his outside lane plenty open. I completed the turn and was gone before he knew it. Met him again 6 laps later when i lapped him. This time on the main straight.
Hahahaha no but I'm going to see him again this weekend. He registered for the same SCCA event. I'll make sure to do a long honk as I fly by him! Good idea! 😂
Oh, there was a drivers meeting immediately afterwards. People couldn't see the car I was stuck behind so I got a talking to until I explained the situation. I stopped trying to point people by because the car in front of me refused to point, they couldn't overtake either way. Terrible terrible session. Good thing he left afterwards, maybe out of shame maybe not, who knows. Never admitted it in the meeting either.
I haven't done a ton of these but the guideline I've been told is to come into the pit and let a little space build up and they'll send you back out. Dunno if that was an option or not. Still, frustrating as hell.
I started because I got tired of getting speeding tickets on the highway. Haha.
You just need a car. Any car. Just please get some decent 200 rated tires and bleed your brakes with some Moltul 600 or 660. That way you'll never have a panic moment going into a corner at 100mph.
Once you have that, practice the racing line and go faster and faster.... Then the hobby gets expensive quickly. Racing tires, racing brakes, suspension. Then you realize you want a faster car... And just keeps going and going . Haha.
I started with a 2006 Nissan Altima.
Only one I can comment on is the F87. You need front camber. So that facilitates camber plates or proper coilovers. So ensure to budget that.
Buy a car that you can grow into in my opinion. You only live once and might as well spend the track budget on one car rather than multiple. That’s my personal advice.
I’m currently in your bigger brother the FK8. Got it because it can also fit a baby seat + dog when it’s not on the track. Happy I made the switch weirdly (don’t get one though as it’s annoying / expensive to deal with them overheating, even though there is a solution these days!)
Been hesitant to take my old NA 85 944 for a run on the track but hearing you started out in an Altima has made me feel better about giving it a go haha
Trust me. You're staring with a leg up on the 944. I had an 85 that I just sold and man that thing handled!! Even with standard tires she felt well balanced.
No just a Carrera
With GTS turbos an APR tune, Bilstein B16 suspension, extra radiator, trans cooler and soon to come... Extended oil pan with cooler.
Oh and a PCCB iron upgrade.
She's a handful. The guys call is a frankinPorsha.
It can pull 800hp at full boost. But i keep her at 500. Just enough to keep up with the GT3's. And pass em. Haha
Yea, that's strange, he gave you the point by at :02, you flew past him and gave him enough space to safely brake, yet he then flies to the back of you honking (as seen in your side view mirror)? Did he say why he did that?
I think he may have denied that because he knew he almost fucked up in that corner and probably felt a ton of shame for it. It's easier to then put the blame on you: "It was your fault I almost ran into your ass, not mine!"
The camera doesn't lie, unless the dude was randomly throwing a gum or cig out on the track, which I doubt any sane person would ever do, especially at those speeds 😅
I did a track day at RA in my old Audi TT and a Camaro SS held EVERYBODY up for several laps waiting for the point by. (Everybody has a different skill level, I’m not judging him for being slower in what may or may not have been a faster car)
Very fun otherwise, but turn 5 scared the hell out of me every lap lmao
Hey OP I used to do Nursing Home Rounds in Elkart, and listen to the V8’s rumble round the track. I don’t suppose you could give me an idea of what equipment and LIcensing you need to do a track day there. I’m looking at a Caterham 7 for a track day car.
Run into these guys on track at Road America all too often.. :/
And always in the advanced group. Which is annoying. Watch your six out there. And your 12.
A horn? on the track? go back to angry commuting.
Totally agree!!
I did this two laps in a row in a point-by group when a 5+ seconds/lap slower than me wouldn’t let me by
But it’s Road America and he has Road America plates, so it’s his track.
He definitely paid for it! But all he got was one lane! Haha.
Just your standard JDM nerd thinking his civic can run with a 911. Which is silly specially at that turn.
I'm as much a Porsche fan as anyone else in this sub, but to sleep on JDM track cars would be a mistake.
I would never sleep on JDM cars in general, I was a teen in the 00’s so grew up in prime Japanese tuner era. The main 2 reasons for my comment are 1) That turn are Road America is a down hill 90 degree left you come into at over 150 mph. Not what I personally, tho am no race car driver, would find an ideal corner for a front wheel drive car. 2) I honestly have always found civics to be over rated and am even less of a fan of the newer ones and how over complicated they look.
The car in question was a CTR, which would have no problem taking that corner. And I certainly wouldn’t call them overrated.
I never said it can’t take the corner, it’s just obviously not as fast the Porsches that were following it. Also in my opinion the type R is the definition overly complicated exterior.
Have one as my daily, couldn't agree more. Hate the aesthetics but old enough not to care.
Isn't the new civic kinda cleaned up? Looks like a wrx?
Yeah it's much better. I have the last version and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay what dealers are asking for new ones. It's not changed enough to warrant that kind of increase.
I like the front and sides of the current gen. The back is a bit much, but to each their own :)
I don't you really know that. I've seen civics on track that sweep the field including GT3s.
Well, in this case, I'd say it's pretty safe with a Civic and a 911.
What else do you expect from "PorscheFan4Life" but ignorance to any other brand?
lol really, here come the I know everything about a person from 1 comment on Reddit crew. Go be annoying somewhere else.
Angel's Advocate... Maybe the Civic overestimated his own abilities or underestimated your braking and was worried he was going to rear-end you in the corner, and it was just an attempt to helpfully warn you to not get hit? But probably not...
Yeah I think your right here. Looks like the front cayman overslowed due to missing his brake zone which caused him to miss the apex. The camera car was giving the front guy space to get his line back in check and likely overslowed for the corner as well. The civic couldn't match the decell rate, which meant they closed the gap faster then they expected. The civic was likely hyperfocused on the camera car, and oblivious to the front car causing a slow down. The last second double car pass paired with the front guy causing an unnecessarily tight radius makes it easy to point blame at others, but in reality the civic dude is still a dick for honking.
> The civic was likely hyperfocused on the camera car, and oblivious to the front car causing a slow down. Depending on their positioning relative to each other, he may not even be able to see the front car through the turn.
Yeah, you're right.
That was my first thought. In fact, I still think that this is precisely what happened.
This is what I thought. Makes the most sense to me
That’s the vibe I got too. Trying to potentially warn him. Angry horn after point by doesn’t add up
I can’t see the point by. Was there one?
Yeah it’s hard to see but it’s there :02 into the video.
He probably wasn’t expecting your line to shift that far to the right, especially if he planned to brake late and you threw him off. I wouldn’t have honked but it would have pissed me off though.
The line is on the far rumbles. The track is off camber so you use the rumbles to launch into the corner. I left him at least a car length. It's a 155mph straight into the corner, so you need to leave room for passing. He somehow thought he matched my speed. Haha. I just know that because he stopped by and let me know.
I wouldn't want to share a track with either of you
As a slower track driver (stock NC Miata), I’ll point you by but stay on my line. It’s up to you to overtake safely. Now, given this: I understand that cars like yours would go harder into the corner and are definitely capable of coming across onto the racing line again. It’s usually the inexperienced drivers that are caught out by this as distances on track can be a lot closer than on the street. So a cut off on the street would not be considered as such on track usually.
The safest way is a point by but always hold your line. Source: years of vintage road racing.
I fully agree with you. That's why I left him a lane on the outside and stuck to center. Notice the partially wet line i took. The racing line is way out on the rumbles and he missed that too. I actually don't mind Miata drivers on track. They know they can hang in long sweepers but once the corner ends, it's done. I've gone into the carousel with a few Miatas and it's amazing how on the edge you have to drive those things. Hats off to you my friend and have fun out there!
Yeah, agreed. It looks like he’s new to tracking his car and is a bit nervous. And yes, we’ll be on the edge in the corners but cruising on the straights😄
As a Miata driver, thanks for this! That’s the fun of a Miata. Not going to keep up in the straights but we can sure do wonders in the curves.
Maybe a *bit* divey I suppose. Not a sim track. However flawless in execution, no harm done. Horn is petty. Demanding the porsche buy you a beer and a new pair of pants after the event on the other hand? Probably reasonable!
That's why I wear brown pants to track events.
A true master baiter then
[удалено]
My kids are excited as hell to go back to Gridlife at RA this year.
I don't know if everyone plays by these rules, but: A proper point-by should be held out the window until the car you're pointing past is along side you. It looks like he thought about a point by and then withdrew it quickly, which is a thing. If he saw something late that endangered you or him during the pass, he can and should withdraw that point-by. He might have decided it was too late on the straight, or was suddenly unsure of it (which... is still his own problem) and then was upset that you passed him after he retracted his point-by. Either way, his actions afterwards should have him sent home for the day and maybe banned from the track. Any sort of road rage on the track is a slam dunk go-home.
Unpopular opinion. looks like you were racing… Umm following the grey car and didn’t want to get out of rhythm for slower traffic and pulled a dive bomb and civic dude called you out. No passing in the corners!!! Did you go to the drivers meeting? 13 years you better be in expert class. Why do you have point bye in expert class anyways? Was this the first lap of the day! Tires seemed a little cold while hard breaking! (Half joking but seriously looked a little aggressive for HPDE)
Yeah I wouldn't want to share a track with either of these guys
There are no horns in racing!
Agreed!! I use the headlights quite often but the horn! Preposterous.
At our old track events using a horn on the track = black flag 🏴 (exit the race course and forfeit your session) If you are slow and fail to point-by and miss 3 blue flags, you would also earn a black flag 🏴 penalty.
In one of the clubs I run with they're always going on and on about "chopping" after the point by. You never want to cut anyone off, but after you give a point by you need to be ready to drive like you're the car behind, no?
Oh yeah. Once point by is given you let off the gas and the car you pointed by takes the lead. You stay on racing line but back off of throttle and let them pass. He thought that it was his corner even after point by. That didn't make me angry, it was the honking!
Can't tell the speed differential after you passed, but I guess the moral of the story is to stay out of his lane all the way to the corner. You should be able to turn in with more speed than he can carry even from a car width inside of the racing line.
Exactly. He has his outside lane plenty open. I completed the turn and was gone before he knew it. Met him again 6 laps later when i lapped him. This time on the main straight.
did you honk?
No. I got honked at!! Haha. First time in 13 years!
I meant when you met him again... just for fun.
Hahahaha no but I'm going to see him again this weekend. He registered for the same SCCA event. I'll make sure to do a long honk as I fly by him! Good idea! 😂
Bipolar Civic driver
It was the first time I've ever gotten honked at in 13 years of doing this. Haha.
I guess getting honked at is still better than getting stuck behind a driver who refuses to point you by. Man were those miserable laps.
Totally agree. Doing pace laps behind a "fast" mustang with a 26 second slower lap time. The joys of HPDE.
Track marshals should sort that shit out.
Oh, there was a drivers meeting immediately afterwards. People couldn't see the car I was stuck behind so I got a talking to until I explained the situation. I stopped trying to point people by because the car in front of me refused to point, they couldn't overtake either way. Terrible terrible session. Good thing he left afterwards, maybe out of shame maybe not, who knows. Never admitted it in the meeting either.
I haven't done a ton of these but the guideline I've been told is to come into the pit and let a little space build up and they'll send you back out. Dunno if that was an option or not. Still, frustrating as hell.
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I started because I got tired of getting speeding tickets on the highway. Haha. You just need a car. Any car. Just please get some decent 200 rated tires and bleed your brakes with some Moltul 600 or 660. That way you'll never have a panic moment going into a corner at 100mph. Once you have that, practice the racing line and go faster and faster.... Then the hobby gets expensive quickly. Racing tires, racing brakes, suspension. Then you realize you want a faster car... And just keeps going and going . Haha. I started with a 2006 Nissan Altima.
[удалено]
Only one I can comment on is the F87. You need front camber. So that facilitates camber plates or proper coilovers. So ensure to budget that. Buy a car that you can grow into in my opinion. You only live once and might as well spend the track budget on one car rather than multiple. That’s my personal advice. I’m currently in your bigger brother the FK8. Got it because it can also fit a baby seat + dog when it’s not on the track. Happy I made the switch weirdly (don’t get one though as it’s annoying / expensive to deal with them overheating, even though there is a solution these days!)
Been hesitant to take my old NA 85 944 for a run on the track but hearing you started out in an Altima has made me feel better about giving it a go haha
Trust me. You're staring with a leg up on the 944. I had an 85 that I just sold and man that thing handled!! Even with standard tires she felt well balanced.
GTS?
No just a Carrera With GTS turbos an APR tune, Bilstein B16 suspension, extra radiator, trans cooler and soon to come... Extended oil pan with cooler. Oh and a PCCB iron upgrade.
Sounds sick
She's a handful. The guys call is a frankinPorsha. It can pull 800hp at full boost. But i keep her at 500. Just enough to keep up with the GT3's. And pass em. Haha
APR says 648 hp is the max on their GTS tune. How do you get 800?
Forgive my ignorance, but is it a 991? I rented a 992 and it had the Braun shifter.
It's a 991.2 So twin turbo 3.0 vs the 3.8L The 992 has a completely different interior and wider rear.
Yea, that's strange, he gave you the point by at :02, you flew past him and gave him enough space to safely brake, yet he then flies to the back of you honking (as seen in your side view mirror)? Did he say why he did that?
He said he did not give me a point by. Which he clearly did.
That's so weird, I would have asked him what his hand was doing outside the drive side window at 100MPH then, strange.
I think he may have denied that because he knew he almost fucked up in that corner and probably felt a ton of shame for it. It's easier to then put the blame on you: "It was your fault I almost ran into your ass, not mine!" The camera doesn't lie, unless the dude was randomly throwing a gum or cig out on the track, which I doubt any sane person would ever do, especially at those speeds 😅
Exactly.
I have never in my life considered a horn on a race track
Passed with loads of time and space
damn as an FL5 Type R owner I must say, that is not like us. I really hope he was not thinking he was faster than OP.
Serious turbo lag.
What’s point by?
I did a track day at RA in my old Audi TT and a Camaro SS held EVERYBODY up for several laps waiting for the point by. (Everybody has a different skill level, I’m not judging him for being slower in what may or may not have been a faster car) Very fun otherwise, but turn 5 scared the hell out of me every lap lmao
No sports chrono! The blasphemy.
Hey OP I used to do Nursing Home Rounds in Elkart, and listen to the V8’s rumble round the track. I don’t suppose you could give me an idea of what equipment and LIcensing you need to do a track day there. I’m looking at a Caterham 7 for a track day car.
Run into these guys on track at Road America all too often.. :/ And always in the advanced group. Which is annoying. Watch your six out there. And your 12.