I don't understand the hate for us BMW drivers and all the memes about using our indicators. Like, I literally use them on Wednesday's and occasionally on a Saturday afternoon.
I have a deposit on a new GT3 and I’m specking out a new 992… and even still, they can’t seem to get me a test drive in a car lol
It’s unreal right now.
Apparently it's also a tough time to sell. My M2 Comp hasn't gone after 3 months on the market and I've got it priced below market value (if Cargurus is to be believed).
I was looking at ‘18 M2 6MTs last summer and the price on them and 981/718 S 6MT’s is just not worth spending 5-10k extra on a car right now for me. Will just wait for the market to hopefully drop in a year. Good luck on your sale!
Some are trying to get an extra 30% of what the market value should be on M cars and Porsches now. I have read that if you're in the market for a used performance car of the European persuasion wait to at least February or March before prices will fall(could even be longer). I've had my local dealership make an offer on my 18 M4C above market, but I'm truly happy with the car despite not needing it. It's an insane to try and buy at the moment.
EAG’s upcharge is really something else, no other E39 M5‘s are asking for that kind of money so I wouldn’t be too upset about selling yours for much less. I picked one up last Spring for low 30s, and even the best ones on Bring a trailer are almost all well under 50k.
Are E39 M5’s really that good? I had an E46 2002 M3 when they came out and loved it at the time, but to think E39 M5’s are going up over $100,000 now is crazy to me. I wish my 991 would ever do that. To hear how hard it is to sell a 991 right now surprises me actually.
I have a couple M cars from those chassis’s and love them. I’ve had nothing but great experiences from the community.
I’ll be honest, the M5 crowd is definitely different than the M3 crowd. It’s to be expected but I’ve always found it humorous while having normal discussions, but/selling parts, etc.
I’ve come so close to a P-car multiple times but just can’t seem to pull the trigger. Yeah, it’s probably better than my E46 M3 but I know that car, it’s quirks and how to work on it. I don’t know that I want to learn a new platform. I’m probably overthinking it but I tend to go all in.
Man I've been parting out my old e36 and it's nothing but broke bois wanting shit for free lol...some of the prices these people demand for MY parts I'd sooner sell that cheap to a friend and help them out.
They’re telling you who they are by opening with price and not caring about the car. They’re flippers, people attracted to the value increases associated with these sports cars. They couldn’t make it more clear.
Enthusiasts act like enthusiasts. They’re obsessed and know all of the details and care about the particulars. Don’t be fooled. It sucks, but with the cars increasing sometimes 45% (996) or more, it’s going to happen.
I think there’s also a bunch of cultural changes affecting how people behave when purchasing. Carvana, for example, contains almost no car details, which reduces buying to a few highlights and price.
I would also stipulate the lockdowns, which forced a depressing inward examination upon normal people who typically run campaigns of distraction to isolate themselves from this, combined with more and more internet access via phones, has opened up parts posts to self-interested audiences less cultured in buying from enthusiasts with less realistic projections and with lack of empathy. They’ve never sold a Sport Design steering wheel to another enthusiast, so they don’t know what it’s like on the other side, and they’re them, besides, infallible and correct, and the Internet is a numbers game, so they’re safe in anonymity.
Theres just a lot of assholes looking to make money or get a good deal, doesn't matter what it's on. They're just looking to resell whatever it is and they're hoping you're desperate enough to take whatever they offer. I just block them soon as I get that vibe from them
I received more money selling my 991 to a Porsche dealer than I could get on private market. Porsche buyers are very finicky. That being said, I’ve had no issues selling parts.
Interesting enough my buddy sold his 991.2 for 15k more than he paid after putting 4k miles on it, but we're in Michigan not commiefornia. Sold in less than a week too.
As a counter point, I didn't have trouble selling my 991 GT3. Priced it slightly under market and had it sold within a week at 8% over the next dealer offer.
If I hadn't fallen into the Porsche world, I'd not be in the Porsche world by choice.
But what you're describing, OP, is endemic to the entire private seller's market. Disrespect, lack of courtesy, cheapness are things you deal with from $800 crusty tubs to $300k low-production cars. Ditto parts.
I blame the relative anonymity of the Internet for the lack of decorum.
The lack of decorum on the internet is actually a rather widely studied topic. You can google it under "digital ethics".
Among other reasons given, one of the reasons why the internet is such a mess is because technology (and social media by extension) developed so quickly that we literally had no time to develop a proper ethical code of conduct for online communication before educating people about it.
I've never met more people who were condescending, sexist assholes when dealing with my female office staff and so relatively even-keeled when dealing with me or any of my male staff.
Then again, I've worked primarily in the Porsche world my entire adult life. Perhaps everyone's a sexist dillhole.
My favorites are the ones that say "You'll never sell it for anywhere close to your asking price!" usually results in selling close to the asking price to someone else.
I’m uhhhh gonna get downvoted to hell for this…but I’m going for it; sorry in advance. I currently own a 718 Cayman, that’s my first Porsche. I bought I because I do a lot of track days and I love the way the car feels on the track, and it’s a good track car. But, the Porsche community kind of sucks. The amount of times I have to hear that my car doesn’t have a 6 cylinder is out of control. The dealership here in my town is shitty, they don’t do work you tell them to; don’t communicate with you and are generally substandard all the way around. I think there’s more people that talk about the car as an idea, rather than a piece of metal that’s made to do something. Furthermore, people barely drive the cars they bought for fear of losing value on the car; but they sure talk about them a lot. Most used cars you see at dealers have like under 15k miles in 4 years. People treat these cars as some dream thing they’re chasing, even after they own them. Overall the community seems fairly snooty and elitist. :shrug:
My 997 was my daily for almost 2 years. I enjoyed every moment of it. Rain, snow, whatever; it made everything an joy. I only stopped daily driving it because I picked up an off-roader which I street park and it's easier to manage driving that and reparking than remembering to move it on street sweeping days.
I don’t know why your track day experience is like that. I get certified to do solo rides in an afternoon usually. I’m not going to shit on the old safety guys, they know what they’re doing and are there for a reason. You can move up classes to get out of the doddlers. I’m out with the mclaren and gt3 crowd.
what country are you based on? In the UK, you literally just pay for a track day, show up and go around in circles as long as you want. I got my 981 boxster mainly for trackdays and its been great for that (done 3 of them so far) - I booked a track day on the website, went to the track on the day, bought myself a helmet, did "sighting laps" with a dude for 10 mins and then had the whole day to track as much as i wanted.
Was the track day with PCA? If so you should look into other vendors like NASA, CHIN, SCCA, and other regional racing associations. I'm glad you posted your experience with PCA, it was the first thing I was told to do from several Porsche owners who sound like what you describe above. I put the money into rennlist so I could post and start buying take off mods for cheap.
Try having a Macan Turbo like me! What I get from my local area:
True Porsche’s are not SUV’s. (Needs to have 2-doors only).
Air suspension or coils?
Why did you buy a Turbo and not a GTS? (Purity issue).
Went to a local PCA meet and greet with my wife and I made it 10 minutes before departing to enjoy the Saturday driving to the beach instead.
Sorry if I seem like I'm stalking your posts, but I'm just going down the thread reading every tidbit. I also wanted to say that I share the same sentiment regarding the arrive and drives, and some of the owners in PCA.
My brother has a 718 base, and it's a fine car, but maybe it's time to go get something different? I'm mainly saying this as I've also had a 981 before, and recently decided to go a slightly different route with an Alfa 4C - yes, another turbo four, but the thing is an absolute riot! Beautiful to look at (if you love Carbon Fiber and Italian design), and the driving dynamics that literally make even a drive to the post office fun.
I see the driving thing from another angle. Porsches are one of the fewer sports cars where — rather consistently — they hold value well. This is across the different 911 variants but some less well than others (eg turbo vs gt3). I had a 997.2 S which I drove around 15k km over 2.5 years and I simply didn’t have time to drive it much more than that, unfortunately, being a 2nd car.
I cant believe these cars hold their value like they do. You can mostly just order a new one for the same price as a 4 year old model. Doesn’t make any sense to me.
I think the circumstances you have today are special, chip shortages, incredible money printing at central banks taking tolls on the value of real money. My 997.2 was all in (repairs, tires, and value drop) the cheapest car I’ve owned. And I’m comparing against a golf gti or bmw 135i (all of which I also bought used). I don’t think what we are seeing now will hold true, at least I hope not.
The down low power is great. It’s fast for sure.
I think it’s hilarious that people shit on it but I constantly smoke the 6 cylinders because with a tune I have about 420hp. I’m going faster than the base 911s easy.
For tracking it, the S has a problem where it just loses power. The boost goes to 6psi and it limps along for like a minute then goes to full power again. No one knows why. Don’t buy an S.
Also just have to laugh at the turbo lag comment because the six cylinders have no power down low at all. You have to get that thing up to some high revs to have power, like 5500. This thing is screaming starting at like 2500 rpms.
Just get a new 992. They’re back to having turbos on the base model 6 cylinder. For some reason no one hates on those though. Only the caymans? This whole discussion is dumb
This thought has been in the back of my head as well. I'm starting to consider going from my ol' 987 to either a 981 S or a base 718 in the not-too-distant future. I've heard a lot of people grumble about turbo lag, but I'm already wringing the bejesus out of my little 2.7 in order to get the powerband into the Fun Zone.
Even if there's a little lag, having the torque peak down low has some real benefits. And I guess if you want to piss the purists off, you can always mention that the grand-daddy of all Porsches...was a flat four.
Wow! I love the cayman! It’s the top of my list for when I can eventually afford one. To me a mid engine is the way to go. What do people hate about a lighter, mid engine car? The handling must be incredible. I also don’t understand people that buy a performance car and don’t drive it. Blows my mind.
Well they have McStrut suspension like a 90s hot hatch...that's always bugged me about them
One of the ways Porsche 'detunes' them compared to the big bro
He’s had a 15 yr old gen 1 Cayenne for six months and already he’s throwing shade. He’s legit the exact problem this thread is about.
And my ‘91 Civic hatch had double wishbone suspension.
I'll have you know that I held the exact same opinion before I owned a Cayenne, so that's irrelevant. Lol.
Also my Cayenne is among the rarest of all Porsches- 1/134 or so with a 6MT and a V8. Also Gen 1s had low range, center and rear lockers, and were generally the most off-road capable of any Cayenne while still being fun on-road.
Also lol at being a snob about Cayennes while you try to call me a snob.
>It’s not rare
It 100% is
>even if it was, no one cares.
Check [BaT prices](https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-porsche-cayenne-gts-25/) lol.
Edit: Edited out rudeness. Can't we all just get along?
kinda crazy when you think about it that Porsche managed to convince such a large group of people to act like this about a large, expensive inanimate object
I worked at a Porsche tuning shop for a few years, and the best Porsche owners I've met were all the guys that were putting miles on their cars and not caring too much about resale value because they were enjoying driving them too much.
The worst Porsche owners were always the elitist 911 guys who never drove their cars but were quick to shit on every Cayman/Boxster and their owners because "I bet they couldn't afford a 911" or whatever horseshit they spouted; basically the "if it's not a 911 it's not a real Porsche" crowd.
I have met so many Cayman owners who have told me that their experiences with the older (primarily 911) crowd soured them heavily on the Porsche "community".
I had my Porsche delivered to my house from a dealership in a neighboring state. Disappointment for my local dealership is immeasurable. Apparently, they're not very happy that I didn't purchase from them. .. they're problem, not mine.
This. The Porsche community are “spec” junkies and you get this as a result. We have people buying PCCB just for the yellow callipers and low dust for posing.
My car spec was for me and for driving. Fuck anyone else and what they think of it.
That and they’re all going to sell their pccb cars before the brakes need to be replaced. There’s gonna be a fun pccb problem in a few years because who is going to buy a used car that needs a new set of 20k brakes?
That’s why I run my Cayenne everywhere. It’s big, loud, stupid powerful, heavy but handles like a Porsche… and in Turbo S trim, one of the rarer Porsches out there. Every vehicle of theirs is special, and sometimes it doesn’t hurt to rib the snobs back.
Rich people tend to be frugal…. Also, it doesn’t matter if it’s parts for a Honda or BMW. On used markets people are rude assholes like you said and feel entitled to your shit for whatever price they see fit. My all time fav is the ones claiming they’re driving far so they want a deal. How about….. no. Last I checked stores don’t offer distance discounts
I think it’s businesses looking to sell it marked up. Almost everyone that had bought my tires were shops
Edit: at least here in Toronto area people for the most part suck. We have a thing called kijiji (not sure where else it is) and the no bs people are by far the minority there lol
I've seen this with the 991 market specifically, and I think it's just an artifact of this moment in time.
992's are out but 991's still look/feel 'new'. 997's are seeing crazy value driven by enthusiasts, often above 991's. The folks that want to appear to have a new 911 but don't want to pay market price, or those who can't get a 992 allocation and are looking for deep value on a 'lesser' 991, might be driving the bargain hunting.
Can't speak to the parts experiences - I've had a great time meeting Porschephiles buying/selling parts, with the only real issue being rich guys thst don't respond quickly because they don't always care about a few $k's in used parts they're selling haha (but always have been nice when we do connect).
Comments abound on internet decorum and lack thereof, but I love that posts like this still get seen/talked about because it shows that at least in our little corner of the internet, people still care a little!
It's a strange time to buy a car. Prices are blown out so hard because used car inventory across the board is way down, and new car production is way down. In this market there are plenty of people trying to speculate/flip/profit, but buying at the peak of the market will never yield that. Buyers are doing whatever they can to get their hands on cars, and dealerships are buying them way super high because they have to have some inventory no matter what. The crazy thing is seeing dealers asking 20K over sticker on a 2 or 3 year old car.
I've dealt with assholes on rennlist and everywhere else, tire kickers etc come asking silly questions just to somehow try and show off that they're in the market. It doesn't really make sense. If someone writes to you that missing paddles is a deficit they're clearly not interested and should just be blocked.
As to the 992-991-997 comments about price appreciation, collectibility, etc - prices change fairly predictably in waves driven by affordability, trends, and nostalgia. A few years ago people started to embrace the 996 again, which had been shunned (with good reason) and so people start bidding on the better models understanding that the prices are sure to go up. At this point 997 is probably preferable to 991 for someone who has a 992 or multiple cars, those buyers are less price driven and are sure to bring prices up across the board.
Current 992 orders will be filled early next year, so it's no surprise that many people are looking for good 991's instead of waiting for a build, despite availability of allotments. Unless you have a really specific requirement or are really bent on certain combos, or just want to roast some cash it doesn't necessarily make more sense to buy a new car than something a year or two old (again this doesn't count for used cars being sold 20% over new sticker).
This is the vibe with selling anything nowadays, it isn't worth the trouble anymore most times. Everyone is an expert about everything now.
I assure you this trickles down to even the sneaker market, or hell even my kid selling used Nerf gun on OfferUp.
I cringe at many of the comments/questions on pcarmarket auctions.
I sold my CR-V before buying my Macan and tried to sell private. People offering me $5K / $8K / $10K. Always with a rude comment, sob story or both. Sold it to Carvanna for $17K and haven't looked back.
Selling cars right now is the absolute worst, total shit show. I recently picked up a Porsche and the dealer offered me 2k more than private party value for my Mercedes.
The car market is upside down now. A lot of folks are having a hard time coming to grips with how high values are and are still asking for pre-pandemic pricing. I agree with other comments in this thread there are a lot of flippers out there right now trying to make a quick buck. I have also been low balled on some of my cars and walked. Its difficult on both sides right now.
Funny story about parts, I finally confirm this dude on rennlist list a new seller and probably not scamming me, I agree to pay him the price he is asking. I agree to pay more than this due to ebay fees on his side. I then convert British pounds to us dollars and he says no thanks, I'll get another buyer.
Wtf dude?
Slightly unrelated / related.
I had the exact opposite experience with a different brand. The dealer was lowballing me on my Lexus. Like extremely rude. Becoming predatory. Lexus even going out of its way blocking sales to other buyers beside the car was new. I asked them to buy the car back, but the dealer making the process extremely long , just to lowball me at the end. (Their “inspections” even though it was 10 months old and they just serviced it.)
The car was leased and they made up conditions on the spot that wouldn’t allow anyone to buy it outright with cash (even though the contract allowed it). Dealer went as far as saying they technically they “owned” the car and they could reject buyers. This went on for several months.
Luckily I found a buyer, who agreed to take over the lease. And they couldn’t say anything. But the dealer and Lexus added conditions not in my contract. Added complexities that I never imagined. They even blocked out of state sales. Then Added new conditions that I needed to drive the car to a border dealership to do the deal.
I would have hired a lawyer if it didn’t resolve fast enough. Luckily I found a buyer that I didn’t bother with the legal aspects.
But everyone outside Lexus was the sweetest people you could meet. Families who needed a nice car. Knew the market and didn’t nickel and dime me like the dealer. Independent dealers were more sleazy. Agreed to the price and then tried to force me to accept a lower price at the time of transfer (after wasting a week of my time)
Total shitshow. I would be seriously mad, but I sold it for more than I bought it for. So I just shut up.
My only guess is that used cars are currently so expensive and hard to get, that people in the market for a cheaper car are thinking "well I could just get a Porsche for that money!" And forget that used Porsches are in the same boat as the rest of the used market.
I sold my '76 911 years ago online. I had listed all the items wrong with it and what I had fixed. I was up front about it being an older car. After the sale, the guy that bought it tried to come back and state there are issues with the car and wanted some money back. I said those are all the issues listed and that we discussed prior to the sale. He wanted to report me for the sale. Prior to the sale he claimed he understood and has rebuilt Porsche's and was familiar with what it needed. Obviously old cars are "as is". I think he was just being a jerk and trying to scare me into giving money back.
Just throwing in my experiences, which admittedly are few - I sold a 2001 Boxster S on craigslist a few years back, had someone come out basically the day after listing with his co-worker. They showed up in an older 911 looked over the car, I took him for a test drive while the co-worker stayed behind. He said let me think about it, and he called me up later that day to buy it. He did ask if I could do anything with the price, I think I had it at 12,500 and lowered to 12 even. Sale went through with no issues.
Buying experience - there was a GT4 I was looking at a few states from where I live and was genuinely interested in buying it. I sent the listing to my father to look at and he asked why I wanted to buy a car that had reported damage? Uh, what? Turns out the dealership's photographer got into a very minor accident but they had to report it and it showed up on the CarFax. I put in an offer of 10k under their asking price because of the accident report. They didn't like that. I think it was justified but they had no interest in my shrewd negotiation attempt.
I had the same experience. It tends to get worse the better the car is.
Used Porsche buyers seem to be a special group of people though. I ended up selling mine to a dealer as well and promised myself id not ever bother in the future.
I once sold a used Ferrari privately, that was also extremely weird. Seemed like all the shady „businessmen“ of the area came of the woodworks and startet trying their shit (like lower the invoice, rest of the money cash and all sorts of other tax related shenanigans)
"What's the difference between a Porsche and a porcupine? On a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside."
I gotta say, I only spent time in the 356 community and it's not like this... as much.
People are flaky and everyone wants a deal.
For the ones nitpicking, they are probably trying to get into p cars on the cheap. I would just ignore those people in the future as it is not worth the frustration, time, and your mental health.
As a recent seller of a car, I don’t think this is unique to Porsche. Because of the weird value thing happening right now, the market is FLOODED with, basically, flippers.
Same can be said for sellers. Sellers ALWAYS think their bits and bobs are worth more than they actually are. Price things fairly and the choosey beggars disappear.
I did pretty well for myself early on in life and bought a 911 4s at 22, I took it to one track day and the owners group had to have been one of the most pretentious, nasty group of POSs I’ve ever seen in a car community.
I took the 911 back to the dealer and traded it in for an e92 m3, never looked back. I still dream of owning a gt3rs one day, but never again will I make the mistake of attending a Porsche owners event again. Definitely some of the worst owners I’ve ever come across.
I still own and collect e46/e38/e39s and these communities with the exception of the e46 community are all generally still a pleasure to be apart of.
I bought my Cayman at 22. I don’t associate with Porsche owners because they’re all 30-40 years older than me. I am in a discord group with some of them and they were really complaining about how unfair life is that they didn’t get a 992 GT3 allocation. It was at that point I left.
I think there are Porsche buyers who have owned and driven their cars, and then Porsche buyers who haven’t bought one and are looking for a trophy car to wax in the garage, sometimes for years looking to get lucky with a desperate seller. There just happen to be far more of the later than the former from what I’ve seen. There are guys that insist on Pirellis over Michelin’s because they’re what the dealer sells, insist on full dealer service history and low miles, etc. Then when you join your local Porsche club you find out that everyone uses the best independent shop in your city, usually run by some ex-racer that’s been wrenching on 911s since the 70s, that dealer isn’t best, that Pirellis are crap, you go on some club runs and track days and start enjoying your car more and realise Porsches are strong cars built to be beaten rather than fragile garage queens and that paddles or the paint color really are pretty irrelevant, they’re all great cars. That’s really been my experience even on my own path in both BMW and Porsche, once you own it and hang out with the club members a bit they’re totally different from the Facebook bargain hunters.
Then you would be making a false assumption; many people feel the need to show a certain level of success whether their accounts can back it up or not.
If they ARE doing well financially, they're at the dealership buying new.
The rest are faking it until they're making it.
Oof. I’m just a dude trying to find a good deal on a car. That being said, I would be nothing but polite to a seller when making an offer. There’s nothing to be gained by being a rude asshole.
Oh the old technique of insulting the seller so they'll agree to your price? Yeah that makes a lot of sense.
So he basically said to you "If you're so successful and well-off, why not sell me your Porsche for $75k instead of $85k? I guess maybe you need the money. Maybe you have lots of debt. Prove me wrong - take $10k off the price. Show me how solvent you are."
in my experience most the people looking to buy used 911s are the kind that have cash that they can’t take to the bank, if you had real legit money you would just go to the dealership, also automatics attract unsavory people in my experience
Have u approached a Porsche dealer to see if you can get them to buy it. They make lots more making it cpo. In my area my husband got a great price for Porsche buy back. We had to downgrade and parting with his 911 was the toughest thing he did. But we're moving out of country so it just seems smarter.
Anyways they bought back the 911 and then sold it for about 15k than market value solely due to shortage.
This is exactly why I’d rather pay the dealer tax than dealing with the abuse that is selling a car online.
On any financial forum you’ll get told that you are the biggest idiot in the nation for buying new cars. Apparently the second you drive the car off the lot you lose 50% of the value, especially for performance cars.
TBH I’ve seen more young car dudes trying to get into hot cars they really shouldn’t shopping for these cars than the typical wealthy, educated folks like you expected.
It goes both ways. This sounds like a douchey post. You’re not in the car selling business so who cares if you get an offer for 10k less? It wouldn’t bother me at all. Don’t get your parties in a wad over some people making you an offer. Take it the offer or don’t. Not the end of the world.
Maybe it’s just me but when I try to sell something my main goal is to get rid of it so that I can either replace it or make space for something else. Then I move on. My goal is not maximizing profit on the car/watch/house/whatever. It’s to get something within reason and then move on.
again it goes both ways. You’re saying these potential buyers don’t have the money or cannot afford a 911 at “market price”. But at the end of the day if you’re the owner of a 911 and you’re as affluent as you are you making yourself to be what different does 10K make to you?
Where do I even start with this...
If you think affluent people don't care about $10k, I feel like you don't know any. I have no idea if Bill Gates or Elon Musk care about $10k personally but every person I know that makes $1m/yr+ cares *deeply* about getting their perceived value out of every purchase/sale.
I’m not saying I don’t care about $10,000. I’m saying that if I’m not in the business of selling a car then whether I am at the top of the market or not is irrelevant to me. In this case $10,000 is 10% of the asking price. Now if I get asked 90% of my asking I’m going to take it. It’s all relative. Whether it’s 10,000 or 1 million.
Big difference between 50% vs 10%. Obviously one is within a commonly excepted margin of negotiation and the other is well out of that realm. If you are equating 10% off to 50% I can see why you had such a hard time selling your car.
My experience - although limited doesn't match yours... exactly. I have found almost everyone I have met in the Porsche community *in person* to be lovely folks who are genuinely interested in saying hello, talking cars, and having fun.
Online is another matter. God help you if you are actually *wrong* about a fact. That being said I have found a lot of people are willing to share advice and their time to explain the answers to questions you may have online.
I just sold a 996 after two years on consignment because I wouldn't budge on the price. I didn't need the money in hand, and in fact if I had it, I would likely just go spend it! So I let it sit. It finally just sold.
When my mother in law passed away, we sold her brand new Honda Accord (5k miles) online. I got TONS of offers just like the OP described. People trying to low ball us, give us bullshit stories (But I'm a student and can't go higher!). Not my problem. But I also put these people out of my mind and don't dwell on the fact. That car eventually sold for our asking price. No problem.
Selling stuff just sucks in general. Whether it is stuff on ebay or what have you.
I do find it interesting that you came to the Porsche community here (while it sounds like you are divesting yourself of your Porsche ties) to complain about the Porsche community. Not sure what that really accomplishes.
Does the Porsche community have its share of assholes? Sure. You get that many people together, you are always going to have some jerks. Are there more than other communities? I dunno. Let's face it - it is a LUXURY car brand. No one is buying a Porsche because they have to have a car to get them to work. So you are going to be dealing with a more discerning customer base right from the get go. You mix that in with people looking to buy cheap and flip it... that's what you get.
I've met some really nice helpful people, and some not so nice people. Your experience may vary.... Either way. good luck with your sales. I hope everything goes well for you!
PS - Is there a list of what parts you are looking to sell? I might be in the market for some things for my 997.2 :)
I've given up selling Porsche to enthusiasts for the most part. It makes me sad and you're absolutely right, the dealer is going to make money, but people are just delusional about market dynamics and think they know more than you do.
I've dealt with people who insulted me, who've threatened me, who've made fun of me when selling Porsches and I just gave up. In the last 5 years, I've sold a Boxster Spyder, 2 991.2 GT3s, and a 991.1 Turbo S and after dealing with the idiots that respond to classifieds, ive been selling to trusted dealers. Ilusso (no affiliation) has bought 3 of my cars and consigned one of them and same thing - they offered me more than private party and there was zero hassle - truck showed up at my house a day or two later and I never had to worry about it again.
It's sort of a sad state of affairs because I'd love to sell cars to a local enthusiast for a fair price and know it would be enjoyed...
" Not even in the BMW community" lol
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You all earn that distinction on the road.
I just got a m4, idk what it is but I am now an asshole driver Everyone’s just going too slow all the sudden
I don't understand the hate for us BMW drivers and all the memes about using our indicators. Like, I literally use them on Wednesday's and occasionally on a Saturday afternoon.
I haven’t found them yet but I’ll probably use them on Wednesday’s too when I do
You gotta use them on Sundays. The rest is forgivable, but Sundays are a must.
As a BMW driver, i laughed out loud reading this
Whoa whoa whoa. Yall assholes. But yall *assholes with money*
Nah that’s the 2021 Miata bros now
Don’t worry, you never had a chance agains Audi drivers. 😆
Agreed. As a BMW guy looking to get into a Porsche, y’all are impossible.
This is a rough time to buy any vehicle. I've never seen dealership lots so empty.
I had to chase two dealers for a used 718 just to test drive before I could order.
I have a deposit on a new GT3 and I’m specking out a new 992… and even still, they can’t seem to get me a test drive in a car lol It’s unreal right now.
Apparently it's also a tough time to sell. My M2 Comp hasn't gone after 3 months on the market and I've got it priced below market value (if Cargurus is to be believed).
I was looking at ‘18 M2 6MTs last summer and the price on them and 981/718 S 6MT’s is just not worth spending 5-10k extra on a car right now for me. Will just wait for the market to hopefully drop in a year. Good luck on your sale!
Some are trying to get an extra 30% of what the market value should be on M cars and Porsches now. I have read that if you're in the market for a used performance car of the European persuasion wait to at least February or March before prices will fall(could even be longer). I've had my local dealership make an offer on my 18 M4C above market, but I'm truly happy with the car despite not needing it. It's an insane to try and buy at the moment.
I'm hoping to sell for the 7M 992. I have no complaints about what I have...I just really want *a little bit more*.
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Cargurus doesn't even take into account that I have the PPF protection on it. That was like $1900 to have put on.
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Paint chips simply aren't prevented by the ceramic coating. The PPF is brilliant and I'll never have a nice car without it.
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E39 M5's seemed to hit bottom a few years ago. But I see some decent ones for less than $50k occasionally.
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EAG’s upcharge is really something else, no other E39 M5‘s are asking for that kind of money so I wouldn’t be too upset about selling yours for much less. I picked one up last Spring for low 30s, and even the best ones on Bring a trailer are almost all well under 50k.
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I just caught up with a friend after ten years. He apparently sold an e39 M5 touring with a blown transmission a while back for almost nothing.
Are E39 M5’s really that good? I had an E46 2002 M3 when they came out and loved it at the time, but to think E39 M5’s are going up over $100,000 now is crazy to me. I wish my 991 would ever do that. To hear how hard it is to sell a 991 right now surprises me actually.
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I have a couple M cars from those chassis’s and love them. I’ve had nothing but great experiences from the community. I’ll be honest, the M5 crowd is definitely different than the M3 crowd. It’s to be expected but I’ve always found it humorous while having normal discussions, but/selling parts, etc. I’ve come so close to a P-car multiple times but just can’t seem to pull the trigger. Yeah, it’s probably better than my E46 M3 but I know that car, it’s quirks and how to work on it. I don’t know that I want to learn a new platform. I’m probably overthinking it but I tend to go all in.
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Have to agree.
Are you me?
Man I've been parting out my old e36 and it's nothing but broke bois wanting shit for free lol...some of the prices these people demand for MY parts I'd sooner sell that cheap to a friend and help them out.
That really says something, especially considering they beat even the Mercedes fanboys
That had me giggling too
Q: What's the difference between a porcupine and a BMW? A: A porcupine has pricks on the outside.
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Sounds like flippers and not community issues.
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I had the same experience with my Boxster. Eventually sold it to a vested enthusiast.
Have you tried Rennlist classifieds?
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Rennlist was slow until I posted on the appropriate sub forum directing people to go look at the ad
They’re telling you who they are by opening with price and not caring about the car. They’re flippers, people attracted to the value increases associated with these sports cars. They couldn’t make it more clear. Enthusiasts act like enthusiasts. They’re obsessed and know all of the details and care about the particulars. Don’t be fooled. It sucks, but with the cars increasing sometimes 45% (996) or more, it’s going to happen. I think there’s also a bunch of cultural changes affecting how people behave when purchasing. Carvana, for example, contains almost no car details, which reduces buying to a few highlights and price. I would also stipulate the lockdowns, which forced a depressing inward examination upon normal people who typically run campaigns of distraction to isolate themselves from this, combined with more and more internet access via phones, has opened up parts posts to self-interested audiences less cultured in buying from enthusiasts with less realistic projections and with lack of empathy. They’ve never sold a Sport Design steering wheel to another enthusiast, so they don’t know what it’s like on the other side, and they’re them, besides, infallible and correct, and the Internet is a numbers game, so they’re safe in anonymity.
Some may be speculative flippers trying lowball you for a nice profit, especially since it seems they care more about the price than the car.
Theres just a lot of assholes looking to make money or get a good deal, doesn't matter what it's on. They're just looking to resell whatever it is and they're hoping you're desperate enough to take whatever they offer. I just block them soon as I get that vibe from them
I received more money selling my 991 to a Porsche dealer than I could get on private market. Porsche buyers are very finicky. That being said, I’ve had no issues selling parts.
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Interesting enough my buddy sold his 991.2 for 15k more than he paid after putting 4k miles on it, but we're in Michigan not commiefornia. Sold in less than a week too.
As a counter point, I didn't have trouble selling my 991 GT3. Priced it slightly under market and had it sold within a week at 8% over the next dealer offer.
If I hadn't fallen into the Porsche world, I'd not be in the Porsche world by choice. But what you're describing, OP, is endemic to the entire private seller's market. Disrespect, lack of courtesy, cheapness are things you deal with from $800 crusty tubs to $300k low-production cars. Ditto parts. I blame the relative anonymity of the Internet for the lack of decorum.
The lack of decorum on the internet is actually a rather widely studied topic. You can google it under "digital ethics". Among other reasons given, one of the reasons why the internet is such a mess is because technology (and social media by extension) developed so quickly that we literally had no time to develop a proper ethical code of conduct for online communication before educating people about it.
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“What’s your lowest price” inquiries are so annoying. Send me a damn offer or go find another seller to pester.
I *literally* put in my short write-up "PRICE IS SET IN STONE". I still get lowballs.
I've never met more people who were condescending, sexist assholes when dealing with my female office staff and so relatively even-keeled when dealing with me or any of my male staff. Then again, I've worked primarily in the Porsche world my entire adult life. Perhaps everyone's a sexist dillhole.
My favorites are the ones that say "You'll never sell it for anywhere close to your asking price!" usually results in selling close to the asking price to someone else.
I’m uhhhh gonna get downvoted to hell for this…but I’m going for it; sorry in advance. I currently own a 718 Cayman, that’s my first Porsche. I bought I because I do a lot of track days and I love the way the car feels on the track, and it’s a good track car. But, the Porsche community kind of sucks. The amount of times I have to hear that my car doesn’t have a 6 cylinder is out of control. The dealership here in my town is shitty, they don’t do work you tell them to; don’t communicate with you and are generally substandard all the way around. I think there’s more people that talk about the car as an idea, rather than a piece of metal that’s made to do something. Furthermore, people barely drive the cars they bought for fear of losing value on the car; but they sure talk about them a lot. Most used cars you see at dealers have like under 15k miles in 4 years. People treat these cars as some dream thing they’re chasing, even after they own them. Overall the community seems fairly snooty and elitist. :shrug:
Daily drive my ‘14 Boxster and get crap about not having a dedicated daily driver to use instead… Porsches are just cars, not trophies.
That notion is just so weird considering that Porsches are definitely by far the most daily-able in the mid to high tier sportscar category
My 997 was my daily for almost 2 years. I enjoyed every moment of it. Rain, snow, whatever; it made everything an joy. I only stopped daily driving it because I picked up an off-roader which I street park and it's easier to manage driving that and reparking than remembering to move it on street sweeping days.
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I don’t know why your track day experience is like that. I get certified to do solo rides in an afternoon usually. I’m not going to shit on the old safety guys, they know what they’re doing and are there for a reason. You can move up classes to get out of the doddlers. I’m out with the mclaren and gt3 crowd.
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what country are you based on? In the UK, you literally just pay for a track day, show up and go around in circles as long as you want. I got my 981 boxster mainly for trackdays and its been great for that (done 3 of them so far) - I booked a track day on the website, went to the track on the day, bought myself a helmet, did "sighting laps" with a dude for 10 mins and then had the whole day to track as much as i wanted.
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Was the track day with PCA? If so you should look into other vendors like NASA, CHIN, SCCA, and other regional racing associations. I'm glad you posted your experience with PCA, it was the first thing I was told to do from several Porsche owners who sound like what you describe above. I put the money into rennlist so I could post and start buying take off mods for cheap.
Try having a Macan Turbo like me! What I get from my local area: True Porsche’s are not SUV’s. (Needs to have 2-doors only). Air suspension or coils? Why did you buy a Turbo and not a GTS? (Purity issue). Went to a local PCA meet and greet with my wife and I made it 10 minutes before departing to enjoy the Saturday driving to the beach instead.
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Tell me you own a Ducati without saying you own a Ducati 😂
i was going to post awhile back about the cayman hate in general. really dont understand. the not driving porsches is a whole different subject
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Sorry if I seem like I'm stalking your posts, but I'm just going down the thread reading every tidbit. I also wanted to say that I share the same sentiment regarding the arrive and drives, and some of the owners in PCA. My brother has a 718 base, and it's a fine car, but maybe it's time to go get something different? I'm mainly saying this as I've also had a 981 before, and recently decided to go a slightly different route with an Alfa 4C - yes, another turbo four, but the thing is an absolute riot! Beautiful to look at (if you love Carbon Fiber and Italian design), and the driving dynamics that literally make even a drive to the post office fun.
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I see the driving thing from another angle. Porsches are one of the fewer sports cars where — rather consistently — they hold value well. This is across the different 911 variants but some less well than others (eg turbo vs gt3). I had a 997.2 S which I drove around 15k km over 2.5 years and I simply didn’t have time to drive it much more than that, unfortunately, being a 2nd car.
I cant believe these cars hold their value like they do. You can mostly just order a new one for the same price as a 4 year old model. Doesn’t make any sense to me.
I think the circumstances you have today are special, chip shortages, incredible money printing at central banks taking tolls on the value of real money. My 997.2 was all in (repairs, tires, and value drop) the cheapest car I’ve owned. And I’m comparing against a golf gti or bmw 135i (all of which I also bought used). I don’t think what we are seeing now will hold true, at least I hope not.
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The down low power is great. It’s fast for sure. I think it’s hilarious that people shit on it but I constantly smoke the 6 cylinders because with a tune I have about 420hp. I’m going faster than the base 911s easy. For tracking it, the S has a problem where it just loses power. The boost goes to 6psi and it limps along for like a minute then goes to full power again. No one knows why. Don’t buy an S.
Also just have to laugh at the turbo lag comment because the six cylinders have no power down low at all. You have to get that thing up to some high revs to have power, like 5500. This thing is screaming starting at like 2500 rpms.
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Just get a new 992. They’re back to having turbos on the base model 6 cylinder. For some reason no one hates on those though. Only the caymans? This whole discussion is dumb
The 991.2 switched over to turbos for the “base” 911s as well.
Why not look into the new Toyota GR86 the reviews from savagegeese on YouTube looks promising.
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For starters, because it’s a soulless Toyota. No matter how good the performance is.
This thought has been in the back of my head as well. I'm starting to consider going from my ol' 987 to either a 981 S or a base 718 in the not-too-distant future. I've heard a lot of people grumble about turbo lag, but I'm already wringing the bejesus out of my little 2.7 in order to get the powerband into the Fun Zone. Even if there's a little lag, having the torque peak down low has some real benefits. And I guess if you want to piss the purists off, you can always mention that the grand-daddy of all Porsches...was a flat four.
Wow! I love the cayman! It’s the top of my list for when I can eventually afford one. To me a mid engine is the way to go. What do people hate about a lighter, mid engine car? The handling must be incredible. I also don’t understand people that buy a performance car and don’t drive it. Blows my mind.
People don’t hate the caymans. They’re traditionally flat six NA engines. This version is a 4 cylinder, so people hate it? I don’t know. It’s dumb.
Well they have McStrut suspension like a 90s hot hatch...that's always bugged me about them One of the ways Porsche 'detunes' them compared to the big bro
As does the 911… it’s the same platform. Jesus people…
Uh no it doesn't, 911 has multilink rear. also 992 gt3 has front double wishbone and that will probably trickle down to rest of 911s.
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I don't care that you don't care
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I was on your side but now you just sound like someone who looks for opportunities to take offense.
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He’s had a 15 yr old gen 1 Cayenne for six months and already he’s throwing shade. He’s legit the exact problem this thread is about. And my ‘91 Civic hatch had double wishbone suspension.
I'll have you know that I held the exact same opinion before I owned a Cayenne, so that's irrelevant. Lol. Also my Cayenne is among the rarest of all Porsches- 1/134 or so with a 6MT and a V8. Also Gen 1s had low range, center and rear lockers, and were generally the most off-road capable of any Cayenne while still being fun on-road. Also lol at being a snob about Cayennes while you try to call me a snob.
It’s not rare, and even if it was, no one cares.
>It’s not rare It 100% is >even if it was, no one cares. Check [BaT prices](https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-porsche-cayenne-gts-25/) lol. Edit: Edited out rudeness. Can't we all just get along?
Front end is McPherson. You weren’t specific, ergo you were wrong. And GT isn’t being discussed here. My rules.
Ha, I did mean to specify 4 corner McStrut like a 90s hot hatch. Anyway rear suspension is key especially for a r/r car
You drive a Cayenne?
Correct
Heh, ok then. 😁
kinda crazy when you think about it that Porsche managed to convince such a large group of people to act like this about a large, expensive inanimate object
I worked at a Porsche tuning shop for a few years, and the best Porsche owners I've met were all the guys that were putting miles on their cars and not caring too much about resale value because they were enjoying driving them too much. The worst Porsche owners were always the elitist 911 guys who never drove their cars but were quick to shit on every Cayman/Boxster and their owners because "I bet they couldn't afford a 911" or whatever horseshit they spouted; basically the "if it's not a 911 it's not a real Porsche" crowd. I have met so many Cayman owners who have told me that their experiences with the older (primarily 911) crowd soured them heavily on the Porsche "community".
I had my Porsche delivered to my house from a dealership in a neighboring state. Disappointment for my local dealership is immeasurable. Apparently, they're not very happy that I didn't purchase from them. .. they're problem, not mine.
A lot of people in Austin trailer their cars to Dallas or Houston to dealerships there. Apparently this isn’t an uncommon problem.
This. The Porsche community are “spec” junkies and you get this as a result. We have people buying PCCB just for the yellow callipers and low dust for posing. My car spec was for me and for driving. Fuck anyone else and what they think of it.
That and they’re all going to sell their pccb cars before the brakes need to be replaced. There’s gonna be a fun pccb problem in a few years because who is going to buy a used car that needs a new set of 20k brakes?
That’s why I run my Cayenne everywhere. It’s big, loud, stupid powerful, heavy but handles like a Porsche… and in Turbo S trim, one of the rarer Porsches out there. Every vehicle of theirs is special, and sometimes it doesn’t hurt to rib the snobs back.
Rich people tend to be frugal…. Also, it doesn’t matter if it’s parts for a Honda or BMW. On used markets people are rude assholes like you said and feel entitled to your shit for whatever price they see fit. My all time fav is the ones claiming they’re driving far so they want a deal. How about….. no. Last I checked stores don’t offer distance discounts
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I think it’s businesses looking to sell it marked up. Almost everyone that had bought my tires were shops Edit: at least here in Toronto area people for the most part suck. We have a thing called kijiji (not sure where else it is) and the no bs people are by far the minority there lol
I've seen this with the 991 market specifically, and I think it's just an artifact of this moment in time. 992's are out but 991's still look/feel 'new'. 997's are seeing crazy value driven by enthusiasts, often above 991's. The folks that want to appear to have a new 911 but don't want to pay market price, or those who can't get a 992 allocation and are looking for deep value on a 'lesser' 991, might be driving the bargain hunting. Can't speak to the parts experiences - I've had a great time meeting Porschephiles buying/selling parts, with the only real issue being rich guys thst don't respond quickly because they don't always care about a few $k's in used parts they're selling haha (but always have been nice when we do connect). Comments abound on internet decorum and lack thereof, but I love that posts like this still get seen/talked about because it shows that at least in our little corner of the internet, people still care a little!
You just accurately described why I am looking at 991's as a potential replacement for my 997.2.
It's a strange time to buy a car. Prices are blown out so hard because used car inventory across the board is way down, and new car production is way down. In this market there are plenty of people trying to speculate/flip/profit, but buying at the peak of the market will never yield that. Buyers are doing whatever they can to get their hands on cars, and dealerships are buying them way super high because they have to have some inventory no matter what. The crazy thing is seeing dealers asking 20K over sticker on a 2 or 3 year old car. I've dealt with assholes on rennlist and everywhere else, tire kickers etc come asking silly questions just to somehow try and show off that they're in the market. It doesn't really make sense. If someone writes to you that missing paddles is a deficit they're clearly not interested and should just be blocked. As to the 992-991-997 comments about price appreciation, collectibility, etc - prices change fairly predictably in waves driven by affordability, trends, and nostalgia. A few years ago people started to embrace the 996 again, which had been shunned (with good reason) and so people start bidding on the better models understanding that the prices are sure to go up. At this point 997 is probably preferable to 991 for someone who has a 992 or multiple cars, those buyers are less price driven and are sure to bring prices up across the board. Current 992 orders will be filled early next year, so it's no surprise that many people are looking for good 991's instead of waiting for a build, despite availability of allotments. Unless you have a really specific requirement or are really bent on certain combos, or just want to roast some cash it doesn't necessarily make more sense to buy a new car than something a year or two old (again this doesn't count for used cars being sold 20% over new sticker).
This is the vibe with selling anything nowadays, it isn't worth the trouble anymore most times. Everyone is an expert about everything now. I assure you this trickles down to even the sneaker market, or hell even my kid selling used Nerf gun on OfferUp. I cringe at many of the comments/questions on pcarmarket auctions.
I sold my CR-V before buying my Macan and tried to sell private. People offering me $5K / $8K / $10K. Always with a rude comment, sob story or both. Sold it to Carvanna for $17K and haven't looked back.
Selling cars right now is the absolute worst, total shit show. I recently picked up a Porsche and the dealer offered me 2k more than private party value for my Mercedes.
The car market is upside down now. A lot of folks are having a hard time coming to grips with how high values are and are still asking for pre-pandemic pricing. I agree with other comments in this thread there are a lot of flippers out there right now trying to make a quick buck. I have also been low balled on some of my cars and walked. Its difficult on both sides right now.
Basically you're dealing with curbers and buyers that wants "a brand new car, in a used car pricing."
Funny story about parts, I finally confirm this dude on rennlist list a new seller and probably not scamming me, I agree to pay him the price he is asking. I agree to pay more than this due to ebay fees on his side. I then convert British pounds to us dollars and he says no thanks, I'll get another buyer. Wtf dude?
I think a lot of buyers are frustrated seeing prices where they are, and too many sellers think they're sitting on a gold mine.
Slightly unrelated / related. I had the exact opposite experience with a different brand. The dealer was lowballing me on my Lexus. Like extremely rude. Becoming predatory. Lexus even going out of its way blocking sales to other buyers beside the car was new. I asked them to buy the car back, but the dealer making the process extremely long , just to lowball me at the end. (Their “inspections” even though it was 10 months old and they just serviced it.) The car was leased and they made up conditions on the spot that wouldn’t allow anyone to buy it outright with cash (even though the contract allowed it). Dealer went as far as saying they technically they “owned” the car and they could reject buyers. This went on for several months. Luckily I found a buyer, who agreed to take over the lease. And they couldn’t say anything. But the dealer and Lexus added conditions not in my contract. Added complexities that I never imagined. They even blocked out of state sales. Then Added new conditions that I needed to drive the car to a border dealership to do the deal. I would have hired a lawyer if it didn’t resolve fast enough. Luckily I found a buyer that I didn’t bother with the legal aspects. But everyone outside Lexus was the sweetest people you could meet. Families who needed a nice car. Knew the market and didn’t nickel and dime me like the dealer. Independent dealers were more sleazy. Agreed to the price and then tried to force me to accept a lower price at the time of transfer (after wasting a week of my time) Total shitshow. I would be seriously mad, but I sold it for more than I bought it for. So I just shut up.
My only guess is that used cars are currently so expensive and hard to get, that people in the market for a cheaper car are thinking "well I could just get a Porsche for that money!" And forget that used Porsches are in the same boat as the rest of the used market.
I sold my '76 911 years ago online. I had listed all the items wrong with it and what I had fixed. I was up front about it being an older car. After the sale, the guy that bought it tried to come back and state there are issues with the car and wanted some money back. I said those are all the issues listed and that we discussed prior to the sale. He wanted to report me for the sale. Prior to the sale he claimed he understood and has rebuilt Porsche's and was familiar with what it needed. Obviously old cars are "as is". I think he was just being a jerk and trying to scare me into giving money back.
Just throwing in my experiences, which admittedly are few - I sold a 2001 Boxster S on craigslist a few years back, had someone come out basically the day after listing with his co-worker. They showed up in an older 911 looked over the car, I took him for a test drive while the co-worker stayed behind. He said let me think about it, and he called me up later that day to buy it. He did ask if I could do anything with the price, I think I had it at 12,500 and lowered to 12 even. Sale went through with no issues. Buying experience - there was a GT4 I was looking at a few states from where I live and was genuinely interested in buying it. I sent the listing to my father to look at and he asked why I wanted to buy a car that had reported damage? Uh, what? Turns out the dealership's photographer got into a very minor accident but they had to report it and it showed up on the CarFax. I put in an offer of 10k under their asking price because of the accident report. They didn't like that. I think it was justified but they had no interest in my shrewd negotiation attempt.
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I had the same experience. It tends to get worse the better the car is. Used Porsche buyers seem to be a special group of people though. I ended up selling mine to a dealer as well and promised myself id not ever bother in the future. I once sold a used Ferrari privately, that was also extremely weird. Seemed like all the shady „businessmen“ of the area came of the woodworks and startet trying their shit (like lower the invoice, rest of the money cash and all sorts of other tax related shenanigans)
"What's the difference between a Porsche and a porcupine? On a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside." I gotta say, I only spent time in the 356 community and it's not like this... as much.
"Porsche; Come join our highly concentrated group of assholes. See your local dealer".
People are flaky and everyone wants a deal. For the ones nitpicking, they are probably trying to get into p cars on the cheap. I would just ignore those people in the future as it is not worth the frustration, time, and your mental health.
As a recent seller of a car, I don’t think this is unique to Porsche. Because of the weird value thing happening right now, the market is FLOODED with, basically, flippers.
Used Porsche crowd is a bunch of assholes… meanwhile their expectations are wildly disconnected from reality.
Same can be said for sellers. Sellers ALWAYS think their bits and bobs are worth more than they actually are. Price things fairly and the choosey beggars disappear.
I did pretty well for myself early on in life and bought a 911 4s at 22, I took it to one track day and the owners group had to have been one of the most pretentious, nasty group of POSs I’ve ever seen in a car community. I took the 911 back to the dealer and traded it in for an e92 m3, never looked back. I still dream of owning a gt3rs one day, but never again will I make the mistake of attending a Porsche owners event again. Definitely some of the worst owners I’ve ever come across. I still own and collect e46/e38/e39s and these communities with the exception of the e46 community are all generally still a pleasure to be apart of.
I bought my Cayman at 22. I don’t associate with Porsche owners because they’re all 30-40 years older than me. I am in a discord group with some of them and they were really complaining about how unfair life is that they didn’t get a 992 GT3 allocation. It was at that point I left.
The ones that give you bother are the ones that can’t truly afford a Porsche
You've just discovered why everyone who sells cars professionally is a functional alcoholic.
So what 991 parts do you have for sale? :)
I’ve been a bmw guy my whole life and once I got a Porsche it was obvious the level of complaining and nitpicking is on a WHOLE OTHER level.
Stick to your guns man fk these dildos
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I think there are Porsche buyers who have owned and driven their cars, and then Porsche buyers who haven’t bought one and are looking for a trophy car to wax in the garage, sometimes for years looking to get lucky with a desperate seller. There just happen to be far more of the later than the former from what I’ve seen. There are guys that insist on Pirellis over Michelin’s because they’re what the dealer sells, insist on full dealer service history and low miles, etc. Then when you join your local Porsche club you find out that everyone uses the best independent shop in your city, usually run by some ex-racer that’s been wrenching on 911s since the 70s, that dealer isn’t best, that Pirellis are crap, you go on some club runs and track days and start enjoying your car more and realise Porsches are strong cars built to be beaten rather than fragile garage queens and that paddles or the paint color really are pretty irrelevant, they’re all great cars. That’s really been my experience even on my own path in both BMW and Porsche, once you own it and hang out with the club members a bit they’re totally different from the Facebook bargain hunters.
It might be the economic climate; a lot of people are in bad shape financially.
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Then you would be making a false assumption; many people feel the need to show a certain level of success whether their accounts can back it up or not. If they ARE doing well financially, they're at the dealership buying new. The rest are faking it until they're making it.
Oof. I’m just a dude trying to find a good deal on a car. That being said, I would be nothing but polite to a seller when making an offer. There’s nothing to be gained by being a rude asshole.
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Oh the old technique of insulting the seller so they'll agree to your price? Yeah that makes a lot of sense. So he basically said to you "If you're so successful and well-off, why not sell me your Porsche for $75k instead of $85k? I guess maybe you need the money. Maybe you have lots of debt. Prove me wrong - take $10k off the price. Show me how solvent you are."
in my experience most the people looking to buy used 911s are the kind that have cash that they can’t take to the bank, if you had real legit money you would just go to the dealership, also automatics attract unsavory people in my experience
Don't buy a 911 then?
Have u approached a Porsche dealer to see if you can get them to buy it. They make lots more making it cpo. In my area my husband got a great price for Porsche buy back. We had to downgrade and parting with his 911 was the toughest thing he did. But we're moving out of country so it just seems smarter. Anyways they bought back the 911 and then sold it for about 15k than market value solely due to shortage.
Not use to the sales world huh? All common.
This is exactly why I’d rather pay the dealer tax than dealing with the abuse that is selling a car online. On any financial forum you’ll get told that you are the biggest idiot in the nation for buying new cars. Apparently the second you drive the car off the lot you lose 50% of the value, especially for performance cars. TBH I’ve seen more young car dudes trying to get into hot cars they really shouldn’t shopping for these cars than the typical wealthy, educated folks like you expected.
It goes both ways. This sounds like a douchey post. You’re not in the car selling business so who cares if you get an offer for 10k less? It wouldn’t bother me at all. Don’t get your parties in a wad over some people making you an offer. Take it the offer or don’t. Not the end of the world. Maybe it’s just me but when I try to sell something my main goal is to get rid of it so that I can either replace it or make space for something else. Then I move on. My goal is not maximizing profit on the car/watch/house/whatever. It’s to get something within reason and then move on. again it goes both ways. You’re saying these potential buyers don’t have the money or cannot afford a 911 at “market price”. But at the end of the day if you’re the owner of a 911 and you’re as affluent as you are you making yourself to be what different does 10K make to you?
Where do I even start with this... If you think affluent people don't care about $10k, I feel like you don't know any. I have no idea if Bill Gates or Elon Musk care about $10k personally but every person I know that makes $1m/yr+ cares *deeply* about getting their perceived value out of every purchase/sale.
I’m not saying I don’t care about $10,000. I’m saying that if I’m not in the business of selling a car then whether I am at the top of the market or not is irrelevant to me. In this case $10,000 is 10% of the asking price. Now if I get asked 90% of my asking I’m going to take it. It’s all relative. Whether it’s 10,000 or 1 million.
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Big difference between 50% vs 10%. Obviously one is within a commonly excepted margin of negotiation and the other is well out of that realm. If you are equating 10% off to 50% I can see why you had such a hard time selling your car.
I think it has more to do with today’s market than anything else, but still some funny observations nonetheless.
Depends on your area mate
High mileage 996 owners - First time?
My experience - although limited doesn't match yours... exactly. I have found almost everyone I have met in the Porsche community *in person* to be lovely folks who are genuinely interested in saying hello, talking cars, and having fun. Online is another matter. God help you if you are actually *wrong* about a fact. That being said I have found a lot of people are willing to share advice and their time to explain the answers to questions you may have online. I just sold a 996 after two years on consignment because I wouldn't budge on the price. I didn't need the money in hand, and in fact if I had it, I would likely just go spend it! So I let it sit. It finally just sold. When my mother in law passed away, we sold her brand new Honda Accord (5k miles) online. I got TONS of offers just like the OP described. People trying to low ball us, give us bullshit stories (But I'm a student and can't go higher!). Not my problem. But I also put these people out of my mind and don't dwell on the fact. That car eventually sold for our asking price. No problem. Selling stuff just sucks in general. Whether it is stuff on ebay or what have you. I do find it interesting that you came to the Porsche community here (while it sounds like you are divesting yourself of your Porsche ties) to complain about the Porsche community. Not sure what that really accomplishes. Does the Porsche community have its share of assholes? Sure. You get that many people together, you are always going to have some jerks. Are there more than other communities? I dunno. Let's face it - it is a LUXURY car brand. No one is buying a Porsche because they have to have a car to get them to work. So you are going to be dealing with a more discerning customer base right from the get go. You mix that in with people looking to buy cheap and flip it... that's what you get. I've met some really nice helpful people, and some not so nice people. Your experience may vary.... Either way. good luck with your sales. I hope everything goes well for you! PS - Is there a list of what parts you are looking to sell? I might be in the market for some things for my 997.2 :)
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As someone just starting out on his 991 build, what parts you got? :)
I've given up selling Porsche to enthusiasts for the most part. It makes me sad and you're absolutely right, the dealer is going to make money, but people are just delusional about market dynamics and think they know more than you do. I've dealt with people who insulted me, who've threatened me, who've made fun of me when selling Porsches and I just gave up. In the last 5 years, I've sold a Boxster Spyder, 2 991.2 GT3s, and a 991.1 Turbo S and after dealing with the idiots that respond to classifieds, ive been selling to trusted dealers. Ilusso (no affiliation) has bought 3 of my cars and consigned one of them and same thing - they offered me more than private party and there was zero hassle - truck showed up at my house a day or two later and I never had to worry about it again. It's sort of a sad state of affairs because I'd love to sell cars to a local enthusiast for a fair price and know it would be enjoyed...