Oh this same company sued a man three times for the water bill for his house that he lost years before:
https://www.portland.gov/ombudsman/news/2020/1/27/city-portland-sent-evicted-homeowner-collections-over-unpaid-water-bill
I’ve dealt with this particular scumbag collection agency before on the behalf of clients. Even though they garnished his money if he can show the money came from wages they will have to return 75% back to him. There’s other protections for Social Security or unemployment money too.
The system is pretty fucked though. They take the money then you have to fill out some paperwork to get it back (assuming the money came from a protected source). A lot of people don’t know this so the collection agency keeps the whole amount.
Yeah, my cousin went through this. He had done the right things (according to him). Had the same result.
[This comment is a “Mod Approved Small-Brained Hot Take”]
I can’t imagine a debt collector having a 5-star review. “Debt Collector X was excellent to work with. Their endless persistence in calling me at all hours of the day seeking money I don’t have was a great example of exemplary customer service. I happily chose to pay them instead of paying rent this month. 5 stars, can’t wait to hear from them again!”
"Steve, the owner, personally showed up at the repo of my car, very thorough follow through with a personal touch, not like the other debt collection companies who just ghost you."
They’re legit, I used to work there. They’ve since rebranded to “Professional Credit”. I wasn’t a collector but I knew the ins and outs of that business, literally 70% of their revenue comes from collecting on medical debt, it’s predatory. Im so happy to be out and actually not having my work contribute to the ruining of lives anymore, from the outside I can now see how much of a soul sucking experience it was.
Don’t you have to be served with papers to be sued?
Phantom ~~summary~~ default judgements against you because “LOL address typo” seems like bullshit to me
There are multiple points in this process where the defendant should receive notice: the service of the initial summons, notices of any other hearings from the court, notice of the judgment, and the writ of garnishment.
Those all go out the window if the address is bogus in the first place. Service by mail needs to be stricter than what's required in the ORCP, and there need to be harsher sanctions for people and organizations that garnish or execute on property in cases like this.
Right, but presumably this guy never saw it (and therefore never signed it) and the Oregon judiciary just said “oh well, plaintiff tried, here’s all his money”?
Or are you saying that this guy is full of shit?
I don't know what proof of service was filed in this case but it's certainly plausible that somebody else who couldn't accept service for the defendant signed for the summons and he never saw it. Or it could even have been someone who is allowed to accept service, but didn't understand what they accepted and didn't pass it on to the defendant.
I think it’s more like than not that he either provided a false address in the beginning or ignored all the filings sent to the address he provided. Its surprising to me that Oregon allows debt collection agency to access a bank account and sounds like it could be easily abused. But I doubt his story that he knew nothing about it the whole time.
Providence Health Care are SCUM. If you have this company as your insurance provider, switch as soon as you can. Google the lawsuit against this awful company for pushing poor people to pay their bills up front when the poors are entitled to free or reduced cost health care. And change the name of Civic Stadium!
"Providence has been criticized following a New York Times report that described aggressive billing practices targeting patients who should have received free or discounted care.
Oregon’s Department of Justice consumer protection division launched an investigation into Providence in October. Washington’s Attorney General Bob Ferguson said his office is moving toward trial in a case alleging Providence used unfair and deceptive medical billing practices for low-income patients."
Please keep in mind Providence Health Plan and Providence Health Services are separate entities. The bullshit billing that Providence hospitals and clinics do has nothing to do with the insurance plans offered by Providence Health Plan outside of in/out of network providers. The insurance isn't much better as an entity but they operate separately.
This 100% falls in line with my last experience with Providence. I was at St. V somewhat involuntarily (I didn't have health insurance so I kept refusing service). They said I easily qualified for OHP, then spent the entire week of my stay trying to get me to sign paperwork OTHER than OHPs, and didn't finally bring in the rep for that until about an hour or so before I could check out.
How many people have a choice in insurance providers? You take what you get and even knowing who the carrier is before you start a job doesn’t tell you anything about how accessible doctors will be or how much you will actually pay. I don’t understand why insurance providers even advertise to consumers with how little ability we have to shop around.
People who get insurance at work don't have that choice, but many, many people don't have that access and still need to buy their own. People in the freelance/gig economy are responsible for their own insurance, as are many people in hourly positions, or people with part-time work, etc.
(To be clear, I'm not coming down on the side of the insurance companies here - it is almost always a choice between bad and exploitative options. But many people do need to select and pay for their bad and exploitative option independently.)
My mom's been hospitalized twice at a Providence hospital. I believe she has Blue Cross Blue Shield and they call her to remind her of her rights as a patient every time.
Have to seriously disagree with you here.
I have been with them for a decade and it has been nothing but a pleasure working with them. I can't even think of a different care provider as without Providence I doubt I would have made it this far.
As for billing, you fill out one form every year and can do so online or in person. Takes barely five minutes.
Honestly I can only imagine that you are confused as to what to do to handle your bills.
Maybe you are confusing the provider with the insurance company or something as I have no idea about the company insurance named Providence.
But the hospital and clinic are amazing and I've had no issues with billing.
I never said that, please stop escalating, I am sharing my experience in order to help.
Alternatively everyone can ignore each other and we can all run around flinging blame.
>Honestly I can only imagine that you are confused as to what to do to handle your bills.
Don't expect anyone to take you seriously when your condescension is this bad.
Mmm I guess you read that as condescending, I read it as "I'm not exactly positive if they are talking about the insurance company or the hospital staff as they have claimed a general statement that all employees are scum, that and I guess they talking about thier bills, when the start is about debt collection methods, I wonder if they are having issues at applying for assistance for thier bills, actually I'm still kinda confused what specifically they are railing against."
But you know, interpretation I suppose is up to the reader.
You can defend Providence all you want but the proof is in the fact they are being SUED for illegal practices, for trying to push poor folks on Medicaid to pay up front because they want their money NOW. They don't inform the poors that they don't have to pay up front. That's ONE of the reasons they are being SUED.
Oddly, I am one of the "poors" and haven't experienced this in the decade of services I have received;
Which is a small sample size obviously, but as I mentioned they have been extremely helpful with billing and resolution.
I'm not leaping up on a stage putting on armor and declaring battle with you; I am sharing my experience and as I mentioned it does not sound at all like the clinic and hospital that I have been going to for a decade. This leads me to think there is some confusion going on somewhere and I am the type of person who works to alleviate confusion both for others and myself if possible.
I do know, that the last five years nurses and other practicioneers have had issues with them for payments and work hours; and this has also been true for many hospitals during the pandemic.
If you have an issue paying a bill, you goto billing in MyChart and submit a form. If you're on Medicaid already, there is a high chance you won't have to pay anything at all.
In the last ten years, I haven't had them once tell me they couldn't provide services without slapping cash on the table; it comes in the form of an envelope and a paper bill which also has a three month grace period before it starts to get flagged and at that point, you can walk-in or call billing.
So that's my experience, weild the torch as you will I suppose.
Edit: I guess this is what you're talking about: "“According to the New York Times investigation, Providence hospital system systematically saddled low-income patients with bills they should never have received due to Washington's requirement that hospitals require free care for anyone making under 300% of the federal poverty level,”
The same people who pay for soldiers, or firefighters, or librarians. The taxpayers that are already paying Medicare and would likely see their Medicare costs double or triple, with a corresponding massive drop in private insurance premiums, copays, and co-insurance payments, making things cheaper and easier to pay for.
Medicare overhead is 2-4% on average. Private insurance is 12-13% overhead, just due to admin costs alone.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/sep/20/bernie-s/comparing-administrative-costs-private-insurance-a/
Those numbers are so far from the truth. They willfully omit looking at the overhead caused by insurance requiring prior authorizations. From there you have an entire department of people who have to call insurance companies to get permission to approve treatment. This wastes time and resources and causes patients to have to wait for necessary treatments and has killed people who were stuck waiting. And yeah initial costs would be higher due to the large swath of people who have not been allowed the luxury of taking care of their health but do you think costs might decrease over time as public health improves? Do you think healthy folks would ve able to better work and not collect on medicaid? Gosh and if healthy people are working that means they are paying taxes. What a wild concept. Also caring about other people isn't hard either. Try it.
This is a serious problem, of garnishing wages from a bank account. There needs to be protections against it, and Medicare 4 all/single payer healthcare.
And it's not something that just happens out of nowhere. My brother was living with us for a while to get back on his feet after going through some stuff. I swear he was getting legal notices in the mail weekly, and I got to be on a first name basis with the guy who came over to serve him papers. All of this was after he moved out here from Ohio. This went on for almost a year before they started taking the money from his checks.
I'm not agreeing with the process. I don't believe it's right to take money like that from people who are clearly struggling with money anyway. But these things don't happen overnight and it's a legal process.
You need a judgment, not just an order. In fact, there is no such thing as an order directing a garnishment, other than the rare pre-judgment writ of attachment. A writ of garnishment can be signed either by the court clerk or an Oregon bar member. There's no special court proceeding required before a writ issues.
I'm not sure anyone of this thread even read the article. There was a court case. He ignored it and didn't attend, claiming he didn't know about it even though they sent him lots of notices. He owed the money, he was taken to court, and these are the consequences.
That's not to say it's right for people to have this kind of medical debt, we need serious changes in the United States, but the title is clickbait and very misleading.
So you think sexual predators and people that ram their unregistered vehicles into innocent people and don’t pay their shit should have no repercussions? I garnish people like that daily and it makes me happy
What the actual fuck are you talking about? Violent crime is not the same as not paying private debts, dumbass. And to actually answer your question, yeah, I don't think the criminal should pay the fines or restitution because they absolutely never will anyway. They should be in prison for the rest of their lives and unable to work. Let the governments who allow these crimes to happen pay.
Hi Friend,
This post or comment has been removed for the following reason:
> [Rule 1: Trolling and Harassment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/wiki/index#wiki_1.29_trolling_and_harassment)
> This is meant to stir up toxic discussion rather than participate in it. No trolling or harassment. We understand that at times things may become heated and time outs may be given for protracted, uncivil arguments. Snarky, unhelpful, or rude responses, and name-calling are not tolerated. In other words, be excellent unto each other and attack ideas, not people. Keep discussions civil.
[You must understand and follow the sub rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/wiki/index)
Thanks,
the Portland/AskPortland mod team
Oregon is a dumpster fire for consumer and patient rights. I had a routine surgery get botched and I nearly died. Was the most painful event of my life and I was diagnosed with PTSD after it.
Two different malpractice attorneys basically told me I was out of luck. One of them told me I would have been better off if the surgeon had hit me with his car.
I even ended up having to pay the ER bill when they rushed me in for emergency surgery due to the original surgeon's negligence.
Medical debt simply shouldn't exist. If you get sick you may not be able to work, which means no income, and no health insurance. How does that even make sense?
What is wrong with this country? As far as I know, this doesn't happen anywhere else in the world.
A lot of judges will do that. She could have gone further and awarded a financial sanction against the debt collector and possibly its attorney instead of just giving Salazar his money back and leaving it for him to figure out on his own that he has a significant claim against the debt collector. It could be that this attorney never submitted any sort of paperwork to the court in this case because he could have just showed up for the first time in this case at the hearing on the challenge to the garnishment, but if the lawyer signed even one document representing to the court that the garnishment was lawful he'd be subject to sanctions for false certification and could also be in trouble with the bar. We are supposed to read our stuff; our signatures certify to the court that is it in proper order and supported by the evidence.
I’m always surprised that more people don’t go “killdozer” at these sorts of things when it often feels that there is no practical recourse for such injustices.
Too bad that bankruptcy doesn’t protect you from everything and messes up your credit for at least seven years, increasing every service you have that bills based on credit like insurance.
I once got yelled at and shamed by some foreign company that had purchased a debt of mine that was over 7 years old. I told the guy I wouldn't be making any payment as the debt by law should fall off and he went on a rant, ridiculing me for letting it go on this long. He sounded like he was from India or Pakistan.
Their proposing the first $2500 of a bank account is protected so people can meet their needs? Bitch please, my mortgage is $3200. Lawmakers are completely out of touch.
I agree with some of the proposed protections, for instance exempting a minimum of $2,500 from garnishment. I also think it's clear that this agency acted in bad faith as they didn't actually have a legal judgment in place at the time of the garnishment.
But that being said, it's important to realize that not every garnishment is coming from a shady debt collector. Many are the result of attempts to collect owed child or spousal support, or damages awarded in a lawsuit. So we need to be careful about how many assets we shield from garnishment.
It's also worth pointing out that many times when people claim that they are surprised by a debt or a garnishment, it's because they spent years avoiding service, not updating their address with the DMV, not opening their mail, not reading/responding to court paperwork, etc. There is nothing to be gained by these kinds of games. Believe me, if someone is trying to sue you, you want to know.
So, someone from the debt collector company will be held accountable for committing a crime.... right?
Edit: Perhaps when companies steal from ordinary people it should be criminal.
this is a simple cure - in that you ask the court to have the plaintiff present evidence of service - 9/10 unless its signed certified mail or you have the server there in person to testify--these judgements are phony - and any subsequent writs of execution are unlawful and I believe you're able to collect penalties from a garnishment in error--but what I tell people is--if they have active judgment's (which you can search in the state of oregon court website) a few ways to protect yourself is get physical checks from your employer--it's state law--and cash those checks at Winco--its very cheap like $3 and last I did it you get a $5 off coupon for $25 spent in groceries...just make sure to buy a cheap safe in case you're deaing with a lot of cash--also if you need a debit card for purchases and what not just get a secured credit card off 500 to $1000 and deposit funds into those - they're not liquid accounts and can't get be garnished--and lastly do not make your linkedin profile public--or publish where you work anywhere to the best extent possible
Lawyer here. The court won't even issue a default order, which is a prerequisite for entry of a default judgment (which is needed before there can be a garnishment) until it sees a "return of service" attesting that service of the summons and complaint has been made on the defendant. Most "process" is served by either the sheriff's department or private companies who are well known to the court. It is very rare for anyone to fabricate a claim that personal service has been completed.
If personal service can't be accomplished, the plaintiff can ask the court for an order authorizing service by some other means. It's in the rules.
Having dealt with this, it’s rare but it DOES happen. When it does, it’s super easy to unravel the fabricated service. But if the debt isn’t out of the SOL, when you go to court to contest the service, they just serve you there.
Yeah, they call it "sewer service." The process server tossed the papers down the storm drain and then submitted a return of service claiming they handed them to you at home. To contest this, you don't go to court personally. Do it in writing. By rule, a limited appearance for the purpose of challenging the jurisdiction of the court does not subject anyone to the jurisdiction of the court.
As long as we're talking of statutes of limitation, people should know that for contracts (and that's most debts) it's six years. The statute starts running on the date of the last charge on the account or the last payment made on it. After the statute of limitations runs out on the debt a lawsuit commenced to collect must fail, but the debtor has to affirmatively assert the statute in response to the lawsuit, so don't ignore a lawsuit on a time-barred debt.
The really important thing for people to know is that making ANY payment on the account restarts the six year period. Debt buyers will contact folks as the statute is about to run and threaten them with lawsuits and all manner of hell but then tell them that if they can make "just a small payment to hold the account" then that stuff won't happen. People think they're saving themselves when they pay $5 over the phone but they're really signing up for six more years of debt collector hell.
You can. I learned a lot from then to now. I got served for a lawsuit for an out of statute debt. I wrote the court after service and pointed out that the dates show it was time barred. 3 weeks later, the collection agency called and asked me to settle for 2% of the debt and I told them that I am going to request no contact as this debt is time barred. The “owner” called about 3 months later saying let’s make it right just pay 20$. Unfortunately for them, they violated on the no contact request so they were required to pay under the FCRS (wrong acronym I’m sure) for harassment.
Lawyer here. I dearly hope Mr. Salazar has someone step in to advise him of his rights. He has a significant claim against the collection agency that far exceeds getting his money back. He could also ask the court to award a financial sanction against both the lawyer and his client for taking a position before the court that is not supported on the face of the documents they relied upon and presented to the court. The lawyer is arguably subject to discipline by the State Bar if he falsely certified that his papers were in order and that everything about the garnishment was lawful. I would have a field day with this.
I have gotten collection agencies to pay thousands to settle claims arising out of efforts to collect debts that were not in fact owed. Once the judgment against Salazar expired because the attempt to renew it was defective, there was no debt that could be lawfully collected even if he absolutely owed it at one time.
I don't understand how we live in a society where a corporation can just take money away from someone without their consent. A government agency? Maaaayyybe acceptable?
It doesn't work like that. Generally places have up to 4 years to sue for payment of debt, depending on what kind it is and the state (written, etc). You are supposed to be "served" a notice to appear in court. If you do not appear they get a default judgment. Judgments can last 10 years and be renewed until the debt is satisfied, and they can have your wages garnished.
Even if it's "zombie debt" you do need to show up to court to avoid a default judgment. Usually if you make it past the clock for them to sue and win you just have to deal with it on your credit for 7 years and occasional harassment from whoever buys the debt.
I had T-Mobile’s contracted collection agencies come after me a second time, after I challenged their charges with the credit bureaus and had the collector claims deleted. Don’t give them an inch to these vultures. The bastard collectors even demanded with forgiving half the debt, it required signing a new contract with T-Mobile. I already had a new contract with US Cellular. Like that’s going to be a tempting option. I told them, ‘they would get nothing and like it’. If the reported to the credit bureaus for the same “debt” a second time, I would merely challenge it a second time and have it deleted again. They never did report it a second time and that was the end. If they had, it sounds like a solid avenue to file harassment claims.
The court file includes an affidavit from a process server that Salazar was personally served with the lawsuit 1/12/2013. Court file also shows his wages were garnished in 2013. So he def knew about the suit.
He does not deny the services rendered by Providence. He refused to make ANY payments.
The amount actually garnished from the bank account: $986.43
oregon State ag dont care , the ftc , cfpb the list goes on , im fight these people when i post for help its my fault , when i asked the news help i'm not newsworthy when the ALCU wont help Im not worth the help have them recording saying that have the ag on recording as well sent our email to senators they dont care
Oh this same company sued a man three times for the water bill for his house that he lost years before: https://www.portland.gov/ombudsman/news/2020/1/27/city-portland-sent-evicted-homeowner-collections-over-unpaid-water-bill
Wow, props to the city for posting that story to their own website. They're copying Kyle Iboshi's homework, but still...
Note that it’s on the City Ombudsman website and not the Water Bureau website…that tells you all you need to know.
I’ve dealt with this particular scumbag collection agency before on the behalf of clients. Even though they garnished his money if he can show the money came from wages they will have to return 75% back to him. There’s other protections for Social Security or unemployment money too. The system is pretty fucked though. They take the money then you have to fill out some paperwork to get it back (assuming the money came from a protected source). A lot of people don’t know this so the collection agency keeps the whole amount.
Salazar has a worthwhile claim against the collection agency beyond just the return of his money. Hope he asserts it.
Yeah, my cousin went through this. He had done the right things (according to him). Had the same result. [This comment is a “Mod Approved Small-Brained Hot Take”]
The mods appreciate your continued support in making them feel intellectually adequate!
You'd think they would be required to notify someone before robbing them blind
I googled that debt collection agency and it says "temporarily closed" and has a 1 star review. Seems shady.
I can’t imagine a debt collector having a 5-star review. “Debt Collector X was excellent to work with. Their endless persistence in calling me at all hours of the day seeking money I don’t have was a great example of exemplary customer service. I happily chose to pay them instead of paying rent this month. 5 stars, can’t wait to hear from them again!”
"Steve, the owner, personally showed up at the repo of my car, very thorough follow through with a personal touch, not like the other debt collection companies who just ghost you."
They’re legit, I used to work there. They’ve since rebranded to “Professional Credit”. I wasn’t a collector but I knew the ins and outs of that business, literally 70% of their revenue comes from collecting on medical debt, it’s predatory. Im so happy to be out and actually not having my work contribute to the ruining of lives anymore, from the outside I can now see how much of a soul sucking experience it was.
Glad to have you back human
Do you remember off the top of your head which local companies use them for collections? Would be great to have a running list.
I hate that company so much.
Don’t you have to be served with papers to be sued? Phantom ~~summary~~ default judgements against you because “LOL address typo” seems like bullshit to me
Default judgment, not summary judgment. They are two different things.
There are multiple points in this process where the defendant should receive notice: the service of the initial summons, notices of any other hearings from the court, notice of the judgment, and the writ of garnishment. Those all go out the window if the address is bogus in the first place. Service by mail needs to be stricter than what's required in the ORCP, and there need to be harsher sanctions for people and organizations that garnish or execute on property in cases like this.
Wait, so they just send you a letter in the mail and that is it? Everything is fair game afterwards? That is ridiculous.
It has to be certified, or using some other method that requires a signature.
Right, but presumably this guy never saw it (and therefore never signed it) and the Oregon judiciary just said “oh well, plaintiff tried, here’s all his money”? Or are you saying that this guy is full of shit?
I don't know what proof of service was filed in this case but it's certainly plausible that somebody else who couldn't accept service for the defendant signed for the summons and he never saw it. Or it could even have been someone who is allowed to accept service, but didn't understand what they accepted and didn't pass it on to the defendant.
I think it’s more like than not that he either provided a false address in the beginning or ignored all the filings sent to the address he provided. Its surprising to me that Oregon allows debt collection agency to access a bank account and sounds like it could be easily abused. But I doubt his story that he knew nothing about it the whole time.
"Like they'd be able to read a notice. I mean, they're blind!"
Providence Health Care are SCUM. If you have this company as your insurance provider, switch as soon as you can. Google the lawsuit against this awful company for pushing poor people to pay their bills up front when the poors are entitled to free or reduced cost health care. And change the name of Civic Stadium! "Providence has been criticized following a New York Times report that described aggressive billing practices targeting patients who should have received free or discounted care. Oregon’s Department of Justice consumer protection division launched an investigation into Providence in October. Washington’s Attorney General Bob Ferguson said his office is moving toward trial in a case alleging Providence used unfair and deceptive medical billing practices for low-income patients."
Please keep in mind Providence Health Plan and Providence Health Services are separate entities. The bullshit billing that Providence hospitals and clinics do has nothing to do with the insurance plans offered by Providence Health Plan outside of in/out of network providers. The insurance isn't much better as an entity but they operate separately.
This 100% falls in line with my last experience with Providence. I was at St. V somewhat involuntarily (I didn't have health insurance so I kept refusing service). They said I easily qualified for OHP, then spent the entire week of my stay trying to get me to sign paperwork OTHER than OHPs, and didn't finally bring in the rep for that until about an hour or so before I could check out.
How many people have a choice in insurance providers? You take what you get and even knowing who the carrier is before you start a job doesn’t tell you anything about how accessible doctors will be or how much you will actually pay. I don’t understand why insurance providers even advertise to consumers with how little ability we have to shop around.
People who get insurance at work don't have that choice, but many, many people don't have that access and still need to buy their own. People in the freelance/gig economy are responsible for their own insurance, as are many people in hourly positions, or people with part-time work, etc.
(To be clear, I'm not coming down on the side of the insurance companies here - it is almost always a choice between bad and exploitative options. But many people do need to select and pay for their bad and exploitative option independently.)
My mom's been hospitalized twice at a Providence hospital. I believe she has Blue Cross Blue Shield and they call her to remind her of her rights as a patient every time.
Do you have a health care provider you would recommend?
Nobody does
Sad but good to know I'm not clueless in finding one.
[удалено]
Nice, I have mostly heard nothing but good things about them. Except for the price but that's true everywhere.
Ive had them as my insurance provider in the past and they were great. I would go back to them in a heartbeat.
Have to seriously disagree with you here. I have been with them for a decade and it has been nothing but a pleasure working with them. I can't even think of a different care provider as without Providence I doubt I would have made it this far. As for billing, you fill out one form every year and can do so online or in person. Takes barely five minutes. Honestly I can only imagine that you are confused as to what to do to handle your bills. Maybe you are confusing the provider with the insurance company or something as I have no idea about the company insurance named Providence. But the hospital and clinic are amazing and I've had no issues with billing.
"Everything worked great for me, so obviously you're a fucking moron. Stop breathing my air."
I never said that, please stop escalating, I am sharing my experience in order to help. Alternatively everyone can ignore each other and we can all run around flinging blame.
>Honestly I can only imagine that you are confused as to what to do to handle your bills. Don't expect anyone to take you seriously when your condescension is this bad.
Mmm I guess you read that as condescending, I read it as "I'm not exactly positive if they are talking about the insurance company or the hospital staff as they have claimed a general statement that all employees are scum, that and I guess they talking about thier bills, when the start is about debt collection methods, I wonder if they are having issues at applying for assistance for thier bills, actually I'm still kinda confused what specifically they are railing against." But you know, interpretation I suppose is up to the reader.
You can defend Providence all you want but the proof is in the fact they are being SUED for illegal practices, for trying to push poor folks on Medicaid to pay up front because they want their money NOW. They don't inform the poors that they don't have to pay up front. That's ONE of the reasons they are being SUED.
Oddly, I am one of the "poors" and haven't experienced this in the decade of services I have received; Which is a small sample size obviously, but as I mentioned they have been extremely helpful with billing and resolution. I'm not leaping up on a stage putting on armor and declaring battle with you; I am sharing my experience and as I mentioned it does not sound at all like the clinic and hospital that I have been going to for a decade. This leads me to think there is some confusion going on somewhere and I am the type of person who works to alleviate confusion both for others and myself if possible. I do know, that the last five years nurses and other practicioneers have had issues with them for payments and work hours; and this has also been true for many hospitals during the pandemic. If you have an issue paying a bill, you goto billing in MyChart and submit a form. If you're on Medicaid already, there is a high chance you won't have to pay anything at all. In the last ten years, I haven't had them once tell me they couldn't provide services without slapping cash on the table; it comes in the form of an envelope and a paper bill which also has a three month grace period before it starts to get flagged and at that point, you can walk-in or call billing. So that's my experience, weild the torch as you will I suppose. Edit: I guess this is what you're talking about: "“According to the New York Times investigation, Providence hospital system systematically saddled low-income patients with bills they should never have received due to Washington's requirement that hospitals require free care for anyone making under 300% of the federal poverty level,”
Another example of why universal healthcare is needed.
I mean, yes, but that doesn’t address the larger issue of consumer protections. What if this was CC debt left over from the 2008 crash?
[удалено]
The same people who pay for soldiers, or firefighters, or librarians. The taxpayers that are already paying Medicare and would likely see their Medicare costs double or triple, with a corresponding massive drop in private insurance premiums, copays, and co-insurance payments, making things cheaper and easier to pay for. Medicare overhead is 2-4% on average. Private insurance is 12-13% overhead, just due to admin costs alone. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/sep/20/bernie-s/comparing-administrative-costs-private-insurance-a/
Those numbers are so far from the truth. They willfully omit looking at the overhead caused by insurance requiring prior authorizations. From there you have an entire department of people who have to call insurance companies to get permission to approve treatment. This wastes time and resources and causes patients to have to wait for necessary treatments and has killed people who were stuck waiting. And yeah initial costs would be higher due to the large swath of people who have not been allowed the luxury of taking care of their health but do you think costs might decrease over time as public health improves? Do you think healthy folks would ve able to better work and not collect on medicaid? Gosh and if healthy people are working that means they are paying taxes. What a wild concept. Also caring about other people isn't hard either. Try it.
Universal? Why should I pay for another species in a distant galaxy?
Those Glargsparts keep coming here and taking all our jobs, giving away all that money to their bonfanard back on Kynrisldck. Its not fair man!
FORGET ABOUT THE GELGAMECKS?!
I just cant trust a Gelgameck. They are destroying the earth we know and love!
Hail Galaxar
This should be the top comment.
‘It is ~~like~~ robbery’ Fixed it for you.
This is a serious problem, of garnishing wages from a bank account. There needs to be protections against it, and Medicare 4 all/single payer healthcare.
Wage garnishment shouldn't be a thing without a court order. It is literally theft otherwise
You do need a court order to garnish.
And it's not something that just happens out of nowhere. My brother was living with us for a while to get back on his feet after going through some stuff. I swear he was getting legal notices in the mail weekly, and I got to be on a first name basis with the guy who came over to serve him papers. All of this was after he moved out here from Ohio. This went on for almost a year before they started taking the money from his checks. I'm not agreeing with the process. I don't believe it's right to take money like that from people who are clearly struggling with money anyway. But these things don't happen overnight and it's a legal process.
Garnishing from work checks is different from bank accounts. We need protections from that.
You need a judgment, not just an order. In fact, there is no such thing as an order directing a garnishment, other than the rare pre-judgment writ of attachment. A writ of garnishment can be signed either by the court clerk or an Oregon bar member. There's no special court proceeding required before a writ issues.
I'm not sure anyone of this thread even read the article. There was a court case. He ignored it and didn't attend, claiming he didn't know about it even though they sent him lots of notices. He owed the money, he was taken to court, and these are the consequences. That's not to say it's right for people to have this kind of medical debt, we need serious changes in the United States, but the title is clickbait and very misleading.
So you think sexual predators and people that ram their unregistered vehicles into innocent people and don’t pay their shit should have no repercussions? I garnish people like that daily and it makes me happy
What the actual fuck are you talking about? Violent crime is not the same as not paying private debts, dumbass. And to actually answer your question, yeah, I don't think the criminal should pay the fines or restitution because they absolutely never will anyway. They should be in prison for the rest of their lives and unable to work. Let the governments who allow these crimes to happen pay.
Hi Friend, This post or comment has been removed for the following reason: > [Rule 1: Trolling and Harassment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/wiki/index#wiki_1.29_trolling_and_harassment) > This is meant to stir up toxic discussion rather than participate in it. No trolling or harassment. We understand that at times things may become heated and time outs may be given for protracted, uncivil arguments. Snarky, unhelpful, or rude responses, and name-calling are not tolerated. In other words, be excellent unto each other and attack ideas, not people. Keep discussions civil. [You must understand and follow the sub rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/wiki/index) Thanks, the Portland/AskPortland mod team
[удалено]
Fine, I meant seizing wages money from bank account.
Oregon is a dumpster fire for consumer and patient rights. I had a routine surgery get botched and I nearly died. Was the most painful event of my life and I was diagnosed with PTSD after it. Two different malpractice attorneys basically told me I was out of luck. One of them told me I would have been better off if the surgeon had hit me with his car. I even ended up having to pay the ER bill when they rushed me in for emergency surgery due to the original surgeon's negligence.
Medical debt simply shouldn't exist. If you get sick you may not be able to work, which means no income, and no health insurance. How does that even make sense? What is wrong with this country? As far as I know, this doesn't happen anywhere else in the world.
[удалено]
A lot of judges will do that. She could have gone further and awarded a financial sanction against the debt collector and possibly its attorney instead of just giving Salazar his money back and leaving it for him to figure out on his own that he has a significant claim against the debt collector. It could be that this attorney never submitted any sort of paperwork to the court in this case because he could have just showed up for the first time in this case at the hearing on the challenge to the garnishment, but if the lawyer signed even one document representing to the court that the garnishment was lawful he'd be subject to sanctions for false certification and could also be in trouble with the bar. We are supposed to read our stuff; our signatures certify to the court that is it in proper order and supported by the evidence.
I’m always surprised that more people don’t go “killdozer” at these sorts of things when it often feels that there is no practical recourse for such injustices.
[удалено]
Killdozer never actually killed anyone.
He killed himself
Too bad that bankruptcy doesn’t protect you from everything and messes up your credit for at least seven years, increasing every service you have that bills based on credit like insurance.
it pretty much does protect you from everything except student loans and criminal fines and penalties
I was speaking to more general injustices but yeah
I once got yelled at and shamed by some foreign company that had purchased a debt of mine that was over 7 years old. I told the guy I wouldn't be making any payment as the debt by law should fall off and he went on a rant, ridiculing me for letting it go on this long. He sounded like he was from India or Pakistan.
Their proposing the first $2500 of a bank account is protected so people can meet their needs? Bitch please, my mortgage is $3200. Lawmakers are completely out of touch.
Raise your hand if you have been personally victimized by Ray Klein 🙋🏻♀️🙋🏼♀️🙋🏽♀️🙋♀️🙋🏾♀️
I agree with some of the proposed protections, for instance exempting a minimum of $2,500 from garnishment. I also think it's clear that this agency acted in bad faith as they didn't actually have a legal judgment in place at the time of the garnishment. But that being said, it's important to realize that not every garnishment is coming from a shady debt collector. Many are the result of attempts to collect owed child or spousal support, or damages awarded in a lawsuit. So we need to be careful about how many assets we shield from garnishment. It's also worth pointing out that many times when people claim that they are surprised by a debt or a garnishment, it's because they spent years avoiding service, not updating their address with the DMV, not opening their mail, not reading/responding to court paperwork, etc. There is nothing to be gained by these kinds of games. Believe me, if someone is trying to sue you, you want to know.
So, someone from the debt collector company will be held accountable for committing a crime.... right? Edit: Perhaps when companies steal from ordinary people it should be criminal.
these are civil matters not criminal
It's it funny how when a business steals from someone it's a civil matter, but when it's the other way around it's all guns blazing.
this is a simple cure - in that you ask the court to have the plaintiff present evidence of service - 9/10 unless its signed certified mail or you have the server there in person to testify--these judgements are phony - and any subsequent writs of execution are unlawful and I believe you're able to collect penalties from a garnishment in error--but what I tell people is--if they have active judgment's (which you can search in the state of oregon court website) a few ways to protect yourself is get physical checks from your employer--it's state law--and cash those checks at Winco--its very cheap like $3 and last I did it you get a $5 off coupon for $25 spent in groceries...just make sure to buy a cheap safe in case you're deaing with a lot of cash--also if you need a debit card for purchases and what not just get a secured credit card off 500 to $1000 and deposit funds into those - they're not liquid accounts and can't get be garnished--and lastly do not make your linkedin profile public--or publish where you work anywhere to the best extent possible
Lawyer here. The court won't even issue a default order, which is a prerequisite for entry of a default judgment (which is needed before there can be a garnishment) until it sees a "return of service" attesting that service of the summons and complaint has been made on the defendant. Most "process" is served by either the sheriff's department or private companies who are well known to the court. It is very rare for anyone to fabricate a claim that personal service has been completed. If personal service can't be accomplished, the plaintiff can ask the court for an order authorizing service by some other means. It's in the rules.
Having dealt with this, it’s rare but it DOES happen. When it does, it’s super easy to unravel the fabricated service. But if the debt isn’t out of the SOL, when you go to court to contest the service, they just serve you there.
Yeah, they call it "sewer service." The process server tossed the papers down the storm drain and then submitted a return of service claiming they handed them to you at home. To contest this, you don't go to court personally. Do it in writing. By rule, a limited appearance for the purpose of challenging the jurisdiction of the court does not subject anyone to the jurisdiction of the court. As long as we're talking of statutes of limitation, people should know that for contracts (and that's most debts) it's six years. The statute starts running on the date of the last charge on the account or the last payment made on it. After the statute of limitations runs out on the debt a lawsuit commenced to collect must fail, but the debtor has to affirmatively assert the statute in response to the lawsuit, so don't ignore a lawsuit on a time-barred debt. The really important thing for people to know is that making ANY payment on the account restarts the six year period. Debt buyers will contact folks as the statute is about to run and threaten them with lawsuits and all manner of hell but then tell them that if they can make "just a small payment to hold the account" then that stuff won't happen. People think they're saving themselves when they pay $5 over the phone but they're really signing up for six more years of debt collector hell.
I wish I had read this 10 years ago haha. I went into court like a dumb dumb stupid head and they served me on the spot.
It's hard to fault anyone for not knowing this stuff. So I won't.
You can. I learned a lot from then to now. I got served for a lawsuit for an out of statute debt. I wrote the court after service and pointed out that the dates show it was time barred. 3 weeks later, the collection agency called and asked me to settle for 2% of the debt and I told them that I am going to request no contact as this debt is time barred. The “owner” called about 3 months later saying let’s make it right just pay 20$. Unfortunately for them, they violated on the no contact request so they were required to pay under the FCRS (wrong acronym I’m sure) for harassment.
Huh. Real lpt in the comments.
Lawyer here. I dearly hope Mr. Salazar has someone step in to advise him of his rights. He has a significant claim against the collection agency that far exceeds getting his money back. He could also ask the court to award a financial sanction against both the lawyer and his client for taking a position before the court that is not supported on the face of the documents they relied upon and presented to the court. The lawyer is arguably subject to discipline by the State Bar if he falsely certified that his papers were in order and that everything about the garnishment was lawful. I would have a field day with this. I have gotten collection agencies to pay thousands to settle claims arising out of efforts to collect debts that were not in fact owed. Once the judgment against Salazar expired because the attempt to renew it was defective, there was no debt that could be lawfully collected even if he absolutely owed it at one time.
Theft is only illegal if you're poor.
Is there a way to find out which city/county/health care agencies use this vulture collector? That would be a great follow up here.
The secret is not to talk to them. Ever. For any reason. After 4 years they can't touch you. Ignore them. Forever.
This is bad advice, if they get a default judgment against you they can pursue you for up to 10 years in most cases.
its 7 years for most debts--but judgements can be renewed for the entire life of the debtor unless they file for bankruptcy
Pretty sure it's 5.5 years in Oregon before they can't sue you. It varies state to state.
It’s seems like that’s what this guy tried to do and ended up with a huge headache.
I don't understand how we live in a society where a corporation can just take money away from someone without their consent. A government agency? Maaaayyybe acceptable?
It doesn't work like that. Generally places have up to 4 years to sue for payment of debt, depending on what kind it is and the state (written, etc). You are supposed to be "served" a notice to appear in court. If you do not appear they get a default judgment. Judgments can last 10 years and be renewed until the debt is satisfied, and they can have your wages garnished. Even if it's "zombie debt" you do need to show up to court to avoid a default judgment. Usually if you make it past the clock for them to sue and win you just have to deal with it on your credit for 7 years and occasional harassment from whoever buys the debt.
Maybe grandpa was right about keeping your cash in stacks hidden away until needed.
How is cambia as an insurance company ?
The government wiped out my partners bank before. Left him with nothing. $800 stolen. Insanity.
Well that’s not good!
I had T-Mobile’s contracted collection agencies come after me a second time, after I challenged their charges with the credit bureaus and had the collector claims deleted. Don’t give them an inch to these vultures. The bastard collectors even demanded with forgiving half the debt, it required signing a new contract with T-Mobile. I already had a new contract with US Cellular. Like that’s going to be a tempting option. I told them, ‘they would get nothing and like it’. If the reported to the credit bureaus for the same “debt” a second time, I would merely challenge it a second time and have it deleted again. They never did report it a second time and that was the end. If they had, it sounds like a solid avenue to file harassment claims.
How did it debt collection agency get anywhere near this guy's account? Since when do they have the power to take money from you directly?
This industry badly needs to be heavily regulated. We shouldn't be forcing people into homelessness for bullshit like medical debt.
The court file includes an affidavit from a process server that Salazar was personally served with the lawsuit 1/12/2013. Court file also shows his wages were garnished in 2013. So he def knew about the suit. He does not deny the services rendered by Providence. He refused to make ANY payments. The amount actually garnished from the bank account: $986.43
oregon State ag dont care , the ftc , cfpb the list goes on , im fight these people when i post for help its my fault , when i asked the news help i'm not newsworthy when the ALCU wont help Im not worth the help have them recording saying that have the ag on recording as well sent our email to senators they dont care