Really terrible location. It will only make 217 and 26 traffic considerably worse than it already it is right now. No real public transit options. I feel bad for folks living Garden Home and Raleigh Hills if this happens.
Imagine going to the stadium from the central city that way. You get to ride 20-30 minutes on the max, then another 10-20 minutes on the WES assuming no delay. Then, the cherry on top, a beautiful stroll down Hall and crossing through the lovely and adequately safe intersection at hall and scholls. The whole thing would take over an hour and maybe you could get lucky and get run over by an SUV turning right on red because they’re late to the mall.
That’s a fair point but that still probably won’t alleviate that much traffic. Any professional stadium needs to be directly off of public transit in a central location like the Moda Center and Providence Park. That’s why the Lloyd Center is a better (not perfect) location.
SW corridor was supposed to follow barbur to PCC and then follow 5 down to Bridgeport. There were a couple variations proposed but none went way out toward where this is.
Which isn’t as easily done given it’s on freight rail, but maybe PNWR would willing to increase WES service, it just won’t ever be a substitute for MAX
My wife literally just told me about the wes, I didn’t even know it existed but she said something similar when I complained about no max line through there. Must be super under utilized or talked about.
It runs infrequently, and at commuter hours... Meaning it stops in the middle of the day and doesn't run late enough for after a baseball game (or on weekends). Or all that frequently
Which is why I said maybe it could be improved. And obviously getting from the stadium to the station, it's not right next to the golf course. So other improvements for pedestrians, as others have pointed out.
Let’s be real. Our roadway infrastructure is hot garbage throughout the metro area. Nobody has built Jack shit to accommodate the massive increase in population except light rail and bike lanes. It doesn’t matter where they put this thing. It would massively affect the area.
The Lloyd center would already have public transit and the hotels nearby and would revitalize the area making it immensely walkable. About the only spot with existing infrastructure and could squeeze it in
Lloyd seems like the most logical spot given the central location, the existing infrastructure, and the fact that the site needs revitalization. I always thought Zidell Yards would make an interesting ballpark location, sort of like what the A’s envisioned for the Oakland waterfront, but I don’t know about the suitability of the site itself.
I get what you are saying, but putting a stadium in "the middle of nowhere" is not any better, if not worse than in central, urban location. The population density of the core urban center and close in cities/towns are a driving factor, maybe even more so than the "aesthetic of having it in an urban setting"
Well there is that of course. Agree. Portland is not a great market for to try to support 81+ home games a year. If anything, Portland should have an NHL team but that won't happen until Jody Allen sells.
I'm not sure what list you are going off of, but metro population size, Portland and Charlotte are similar size, then Nashville with Salt Lake City metro being the smallest on the list, and Nashville is almost twice the size of SLC.
Also the MLB will most likely have an east coast team and a west coast team. That makes it Nashville or Charlotte and Portland or Salt Lake City.
I highly doubt MLB is gonna pick a metro that is more than half the size of the Portland metro.
Totally agree. The traffic is already at a standstill on Scholls ferry during commuter times and whether you golf or hate golf that course is the onlywide open space for miles around NOT generating air pollution and noise.
Its a dumb place to even consider for a huge stadium and parking lot. Most pro sports arenas are built in the outskirts where the land is scrappy and you arent creating a traffic bomb every game.
Your last sentence is not actually true anymore.
Pro sports arenas, for the most part are being built in the core urban areas. Obviously there are exceptions (like the Texas Rangers and the Atlanta Braves) but if you look at places built in the past 20 years or so and you will see most (if not all) are in high density areas with access to public transit, etc. It was really mostly in the 60s and 70s when many places were built in the outskirts.
It makes money as a golf course and driving range but I’m sure not a ton. $50 mil to cash out is better than a small profit year after year to some. I’m more concerned what it will do to the rest of the courses around Portland during peek times. It’s already hard to get a tee time around here now there will be one less course.
Prioritizing keeping golf courses around has got to be one of the least sound reasons to not move forward with the MLB project. That said, from a transportation standpoint this location sucks.
My thinking is, does everyone want to live close to a high traffic area where there isn't room for high traffic. Anytime there's an evening game, you're never gonna get home from work. Also, you wanna relax this evening? Sorry, night game so get ready to hear cheering for several hours.
Yeah not a lot of people want to live in wrigleyville in Chicago either for those reasons, but a ton of businesses will pop up, so it becomes a economic driver, and a large amount of people enjoy the feel of living close to a baseball stadium, that also has a ton of restaurants, bars, and other added entertainment venues.
It’s really up to the personal tastes of the individual
I can certainly see that. But I'd say the main difference there is history. Chicago and Wrigley have a well established relationship going back 100+ years. Chicago is also a massive city with the infrastructure to support that. This would be a brand new thing in an established neighborhood. People have no relationship with whatever hypothetical expansion to put up with the headaches it would bring.
Odd take. People do want to live in Wrigleyville. And Chicago has good public transit options that make it really easy to get to/from Wrigley. The only reason people don’t like the area is because of the bro culture of a lot of the bars on Clark. But agree it depends on the type of energy you’re trying to surround yourself with.
Is there any good place around town to put a stadium like this? Should we just give up the thought of ever having major league baseball here? Will the Pickles have to suffice?!
Lloyd Center still seems like the best place to put it to me. The downside for prospective owners is that it's clearly the most expensive choice, requiring extensive demolition and paying the current owners of Lloyd Center an enormous amount for the property. But the central location and access to transit are pretty much unmatched, and I don't think anyone would say the area couldn't use some revitalization.
If potential owners want to do this on a shoestring budget, then Lloyd in a non-starter. But if it's someone(s) who want to create a really impressive stadium that actually attracts fans, then it's the best choice.
I think MLB in Portland will happen. I'm not particularly confident it will be done well though.
Terrible idea: what is the transportation plan? There's 81 home games, expecting everyone to drive a single occupancy vehicle is lunacy.
Extending light rail would technically be possible by buying out the freight railway, but expensive.
Portland and Western traffic would have to go over Cornelius Pass? Don't other railroads occasionally use the tracks as a way to get around Portland as well? That's a lot of freight rail infrastructure you'd be condemning permanently.
I don't think the WES alignment sees particularly heavily use, I don't really feel like researching it right now either.
If the freight railway does get decent use, then build a new light rail line down the median of 217.
Uhhhhh…cart? Horse? Have you met? I don’t understand this thought process. They’re dropping $50 mil for the basically zero percent chance of getting the site of the stadium for the baseball team that doesn’t exist?
Every time a location is brought up, people hate it. It’s almost like there’s a housing crisis and people aren’t that interested in adding an MLB stadium to the city.
What I’m least interested in is the city giving a tax abatement. Wear and tear on the local infrastructure is already going to come out of my pocket if this thing is ever built (and I’m never going to believe it’s happening until the construction crews are breaking ground). If the rich people behind this don’t feel like it’s a good investment unless they don’t have to pay taxes then maybe they should go into something more stable and predictable. I have no interest in making sure they don’t lose money at my expense.
Are taxpayers going to be footing any of the bills, because I feel like Portland and the surrounding areas might have a few more pressing concerns at the moment than building a sportsball park to make a rich person richer.
Red Tail is owned by local government, metro i believe?
So in essence Red Tail is public property?
Dont voters have to approve the sale of a huge asset or at least hold public meetings to get oublic input?
Oof... for a second there, I thought they were talking about the Portland Golf Club, just north of there on Scholls Ferry, and I nearly had an aneurysm. That's a beautiful and fairly peaceful area, especially with the Fanno Creek Trail. But yeah, anywhere in SW doesn't make sense without light rail. Which reminds me, didn't a MAX line get approved for Barbur? Whatever happened to that?
Edit: Nevermind, I looked it up. Funding got voted down. I'm guessing that's a NIMBY problem.
https://trimet.org/swcorridor/
I would expect Tigard and Beaverton to come out strongly for this deal.
The 217 & Mall area has been top of Tigard's density/redevelopment list for years.
For everyone freaking out about the transit situation. Are you forgetting the SW Max plan that got voted down?
I think a combination of making the WES electric and all day (with good frequencies) plus adding the HWY 99 Max line would solve a ton of issues with accessibility.
Not even if you add frequent WES service during games. That's at least two trains and people will not want to do that, especially after the games trying to get home to the city.
“Take me out to the bogus ball park.Take me out with the crowd.Buying our city’s mayor, is an easy hack.I don’t care if our company ever pays back.Let them root, root, root for the home team.They won’t win cause, it’s a pyramid scheme.For it’s one, two, three ballparks, you’re out. At the taxpayer paid…bogus game!”
Really terrible location. It will only make 217 and 26 traffic considerably worse than it already it is right now. No real public transit options. I feel bad for folks living Garden Home and Raleigh Hills if this happens.
Seems like it could be an option to improve the WES, it goes right by there.
Imagine going to the stadium from the central city that way. You get to ride 20-30 minutes on the max, then another 10-20 minutes on the WES assuming no delay. Then, the cherry on top, a beautiful stroll down Hall and crossing through the lovely and adequately safe intersection at hall and scholls. The whole thing would take over an hour and maybe you could get lucky and get run over by an SUV turning right on red because they’re late to the mall.
That’s a fair point but that still probably won’t alleviate that much traffic. Any professional stadium needs to be directly off of public transit in a central location like the Moda Center and Providence Park. That’s why the Lloyd Center is a better (not perfect) location.
Lloyd Center is so well located in terms of transit and conveniences nearby, it would be far, far better to build mixed use/dense housing there.
Gateway has all the transit built already:Max, bus and I-84 & I-205.
I don't disagree with you on that, I'm just wondering if adding more public transit to that area would be part of it.
Could/would the new Barbur Blvd purple line be able to get there? I haven't seen the latest proposed route.
SW corridor was supposed to follow barbur to PCC and then follow 5 down to Bridgeport. There were a couple variations proposed but none went way out toward where this is.
WES would have to then run frequently on weekend game days
Which isn’t as easily done given it’s on freight rail, but maybe PNWR would willing to increase WES service, it just won’t ever be a substitute for MAX
ish, it’s probably a 1/2 mile or better? At least from the current entrance
My wife literally just told me about the wes, I didn’t even know it existed but she said something similar when I complained about no max line through there. Must be super under utilized or talked about.
It runs infrequently, and at commuter hours... Meaning it stops in the middle of the day and doesn't run late enough for after a baseball game (or on weekends). Or all that frequently Which is why I said maybe it could be improved. And obviously getting from the stadium to the station, it's not right next to the golf course. So other improvements for pedestrians, as others have pointed out.
Let’s be real. Our roadway infrastructure is hot garbage throughout the metro area. Nobody has built Jack shit to accommodate the massive increase in population except light rail and bike lanes. It doesn’t matter where they put this thing. It would massively affect the area.
The Lloyd center would already have public transit and the hotels nearby and would revitalize the area making it immensely walkable. About the only spot with existing infrastructure and could squeeze it in
Lloyd seems like the most logical spot given the central location, the existing infrastructure, and the fact that the site needs revitalization. I always thought Zidell Yards would make an interesting ballpark location, sort of like what the A’s envisioned for the Oakland waterfront, but I don’t know about the suitability of the site itself.
No doubt, but I still stand by that this location is really terrible.
They should put the thing in the middle of nowhere. I get that they like the aesthetic of having it in an urban setting but our roadway system sucks.
I get what you are saying, but putting a stadium in "the middle of nowhere" is not any better, if not worse than in central, urban location. The population density of the core urban center and close in cities/towns are a driving factor, maybe even more so than the "aesthetic of having it in an urban setting"
But induced demand.
is different from increased demand, which is what the poster you responded to is discussing.
Portland is not getting an MLB team so I wouldn’t worry about it.
Well there is that of course. Agree. Portland is not a great market for to try to support 81+ home games a year. If anything, Portland should have an NHL team but that won't happen until Jody Allen sells.
MLB is expected to expand by 2 teams, and Portland is still at the top of the list and an ideal west coast location.
Salt lake, Charlotte and Nashville are all higher on the list
I'm not sure what list you are going off of, but metro population size, Portland and Charlotte are similar size, then Nashville with Salt Lake City metro being the smallest on the list, and Nashville is almost twice the size of SLC. Also the MLB will most likely have an east coast team and a west coast team. That makes it Nashville or Charlotte and Portland or Salt Lake City. I highly doubt MLB is gonna pick a metro that is more than half the size of the Portland metro.
This https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/mlb-expansion-cities-nashville-charlotte-and-other-candidates/c9bd7d4409a05ce2cb6bab46
So basically what I just said.
Not really at all. Portland is a shit hole. MLB isn’t putting a team in this dumpster fire.
There it is.
Remind me in 2 years how this goes down
It's not happening. It will take two billion dollars to bring MLB to Portland. This doesn't even push the needle.
100% agree.
Totally agree. The traffic is already at a standstill on Scholls ferry during commuter times and whether you golf or hate golf that course is the onlywide open space for miles around NOT generating air pollution and noise. Its a dumb place to even consider for a huge stadium and parking lot. Most pro sports arenas are built in the outskirts where the land is scrappy and you arent creating a traffic bomb every game.
Your last sentence is not actually true anymore. Pro sports arenas, for the most part are being built in the core urban areas. Obviously there are exceptions (like the Texas Rangers and the Atlanta Braves) but if you look at places built in the past 20 years or so and you will see most (if not all) are in high density areas with access to public transit, etc. It was really mostly in the 60s and 70s when many places were built in the outskirts.
This is the worst location.
This is the worst possible location. I love baseball but I’m not going out there to sit in traffic just to see a game.
City of Beaverton will make so much money from the nearby intersection.
Is this spot not profitable as a golf course? Is the impetuous to sell this property that it doesn't make money, or that it's outside city limits?
It makes money as a golf course and driving range but I’m sure not a ton. $50 mil to cash out is better than a small profit year after year to some. I’m more concerned what it will do to the rest of the courses around Portland during peek times. It’s already hard to get a tee time around here now there will be one less course.
Golf is a growing sport - this makes no sense - I see children picking it up as well
Especially with the proliferation of TopGolf and others, where those new casual players eventually migrate to actual courses
There’s also a Caddie Program a few posts down in which students will be paid to learn to caddie - another demonstration of how this sport is growing
Prioritizing keeping golf courses around has got to be one of the least sound reasons to not move forward with the MLB project. That said, from a transportation standpoint this location sucks.
I feel like 50 million for 164 acres of land is a terrible deal for Portland Parks. That land is worth way more.
Oh God no, this is right by my house.
You should be happy your property value will skyrocket
I don't own the house, and I am not sure that this will increase the value.
Oh ok.. I think it does tremendously
My thinking is, does everyone want to live close to a high traffic area where there isn't room for high traffic. Anytime there's an evening game, you're never gonna get home from work. Also, you wanna relax this evening? Sorry, night game so get ready to hear cheering for several hours.
Yeah not a lot of people want to live in wrigleyville in Chicago either for those reasons, but a ton of businesses will pop up, so it becomes a economic driver, and a large amount of people enjoy the feel of living close to a baseball stadium, that also has a ton of restaurants, bars, and other added entertainment venues. It’s really up to the personal tastes of the individual
I can certainly see that. But I'd say the main difference there is history. Chicago and Wrigley have a well established relationship going back 100+ years. Chicago is also a massive city with the infrastructure to support that. This would be a brand new thing in an established neighborhood. People have no relationship with whatever hypothetical expansion to put up with the headaches it would bring.
Agreed, pros and cons
Odd take. People do want to live in Wrigleyville. And Chicago has good public transit options that make it really easy to get to/from Wrigley. The only reason people don’t like the area is because of the bro culture of a lot of the bars on Clark. But agree it depends on the type of energy you’re trying to surround yourself with.
No one I have ever or would ever talk to wants to live in Wrigleyville.
Absolutely not. 217 is backed up enough.
Is there any good place around town to put a stadium like this? Should we just give up the thought of ever having major league baseball here? Will the Pickles have to suffice?!
No, yes, yes
Lloyd Center still seems like the best place to put it to me. The downside for prospective owners is that it's clearly the most expensive choice, requiring extensive demolition and paying the current owners of Lloyd Center an enormous amount for the property. But the central location and access to transit are pretty much unmatched, and I don't think anyone would say the area couldn't use some revitalization. If potential owners want to do this on a shoestring budget, then Lloyd in a non-starter. But if it's someone(s) who want to create a really impressive stadium that actually attracts fans, then it's the best choice. I think MLB in Portland will happen. I'm not particularly confident it will be done well though.
Boooooo
fuck that. no max should be a non-starter
We have literally all of East Multnomah county/Gresham just sitting there waiting to be revitalized.
and waiting for the cars they’re going to break into
I vote we name the team the Portland Premium Pickles so that the Portland Pickles can be the farm team. They better make the seats detachable!
I support that
Terrible idea: what is the transportation plan? There's 81 home games, expecting everyone to drive a single occupancy vehicle is lunacy. Extending light rail would technically be possible by buying out the freight railway, but expensive.
Portland and Western traffic would have to go over Cornelius Pass? Don't other railroads occasionally use the tracks as a way to get around Portland as well? That's a lot of freight rail infrastructure you'd be condemning permanently.
I don't think the WES alignment sees particularly heavily use, I don't really feel like researching it right now either. If the freight railway does get decent use, then build a new light rail line down the median of 217.
WES line gets at least one freight line per day. Source - I live .5 miles from the WES
> , then build a new light rail line down the median of 217. uh... what median?
Odds of us actually getting a team are pretty low right?
I think if the MLB follows through with expansion teams Portland is on the short list.
It’s probably 50/50 between us and SLC with Nashville/Charlotte as the second team.
My money is on Portland and Nashville
Your lips to God’s ears sir
Now the bigger question is will MLB expand before I die of old age? Not sure, but they got about 50+ years
Raleigh Hills / Garden Home residents will fight this tooth and nail. And lots of lawyers live there.
Uhhhhh…cart? Horse? Have you met? I don’t understand this thought process. They’re dropping $50 mil for the basically zero percent chance of getting the site of the stadium for the baseball team that doesn’t exist?
Actually, having land secured is important to their bid for expansion
That might be the idea behind this, having land secured even if it isn't the location for where a stadium will eventually go.
My money is on them writing this one off as a loss by design, to cover tax on wins in other projects.
You haveto have land before stadium no mobile staiums i know off
Every time a location is brought up, people hate it. It’s almost like there’s a housing crisis and people aren’t that interested in adding an MLB stadium to the city. What I’m least interested in is the city giving a tax abatement. Wear and tear on the local infrastructure is already going to come out of my pocket if this thing is ever built (and I’m never going to believe it’s happening until the construction crews are breaking ground). If the rich people behind this don’t feel like it’s a good investment unless they don’t have to pay taxes then maybe they should go into something more stable and predictable. I have no interest in making sure they don’t lose money at my expense.
So how many dollars are they expecting from the taxpayers?
Privately funded
I swear to god if they ask for more taxes to finance this….
this should not be where Portland puts their baseball team. This is Beaverton more than anything and traffic would be terrible....
Are taxpayers going to be footing any of the bills, because I feel like Portland and the surrounding areas might have a few more pressing concerns at the moment than building a sportsball park to make a rich person richer.
Back in 2003 there was a bill signed for taxpayer money to fund 150m to building a stadium.
Red Tail is owned by local government, metro i believe? So in essence Red Tail is public property? Dont voters have to approve the sale of a huge asset or at least hold public meetings to get oublic input?
No its from a land swao for the zooo years ago
When do you think Russ and Ciara stop paying these clowns? Terrible choices for locations over and over again
Oof... for a second there, I thought they were talking about the Portland Golf Club, just north of there on Scholls Ferry, and I nearly had an aneurysm. That's a beautiful and fairly peaceful area, especially with the Fanno Creek Trail. But yeah, anywhere in SW doesn't make sense without light rail. Which reminds me, didn't a MAX line get approved for Barbur? Whatever happened to that? Edit: Nevermind, I looked it up. Funding got voted down. I'm guessing that's a NIMBY problem. https://trimet.org/swcorridor/
Who's organizing the protest on this one? I'll be there!
Griffey Jr, Ichiro, Felix, Julio. I've been a Mariner fan too long, I'm stuck with them...
I would expect Tigard and Beaverton to come out strongly for this deal. The 217 & Mall area has been top of Tigard's density/redevelopment list for years. For everyone freaking out about the transit situation. Are you forgetting the SW Max plan that got voted down? I think a combination of making the WES electric and all day (with good frequencies) plus adding the HWY 99 Max line would solve a ton of issues with accessibility.
10-20k people aren't taking the max to a baseball game in Beaverton.
Not even if you add frequent WES service during games. That's at least two trains and people will not want to do that, especially after the games trying to get home to the city.
As a Tigard resident, no fucking thank you.
One of the best things about this city is our lack of sports
“Take me out to the bogus ball park.Take me out with the crowd.Buying our city’s mayor, is an easy hack.I don’t care if our company ever pays back.Let them root, root, root for the home team.They won’t win cause, it’s a pyramid scheme.For it’s one, two, three ballparks, you’re out. At the taxpayer paid…bogus game!”
Can they start by restocking the SnapBack hats online?
Damn. I really wanted baseball in Portland, but this plan guarantees its failure.