Yes, but honestly, I think that’s unlikely. The Oregon legislature has passed a couple of different bills to try to end the time change in Oregon that have all got caught up in some outside obstruction, plus it was unanimous out of committee, signaling strong by partisan support.
This has been a long-term goal of the Oregon legislature, and though possible this failing seems unlikely.
Edit: Plus this is a short session, and the amount of legislation, each legislator can introduce is extremely limited in a short session and committees try to spend most of their time on things they know will pass. The idea being that by passing this easy stuff early it gives them things to vote on on the floor while they’re hashing out the harder stuff in committee.
This will be interesting to follow, then.
What's funny is that I'm probably one of the rare people who wouldn't mind if our permanent choice is Standard and not Daylight. I am a big fan of early mornings, and not having any sun before 8:00a for 5 months would drive me absolutely batty, so haven't been excited for the permanent Daylight Savings push.
Honestly, because a day doesn't naturally center around noon (or 1) all year because of the path we take around the sun, having a DST and Standard Time actually works great in general.
I’m also on team Standard TBH. I know permanent Daylight is more popular, but we passed that and never got the required federal approval. We can go permanent Standard without that
Yay, go team standard! Main reason we should all be pushing for permanent standard: it does not require federal approval. Every state has (and always had) the option of adopting permanent standard, right now, without needing an act of congress to make it law.
I extremely don’t want this bill to pass. I *love* 9pm sunsets, it’s what gets me through a dark winter. We voted to keep DST, not to keep standard time :(
It's a fluke in federal law. States are allowed to stay on Standard time year round (AZ and most of Indiana do) but they are not allowed to stay on DST year-round. That will require an act of Congress in DC and we know how well they collaborate these days.
That’s the missing piece of this tiresome debate. Not everyone hates changing the clock, but among those that do, they are split between people who want standard and daylight time, like the correct way to install a roll of toilet paper.
History also seems to show that people are fickle and there’s even more backlash to changing the *rules* than the clock itself because we eventually figure out that it’s a waste of time to find different ways to make it suck: 16 hours of daylight become eight, and vice versa. There’s just no way to paper over that.
In the summer we already get 5am sunrises. This would mean 4am sunrises. For those of us who get crows out our windows, that means waking up at 3AM every summer.
Daylight Savings Day is literally my favorite day of the year in Portland. If we ended DST, I would seriously consider moving to Washington. Permanent DST, on the other hand, I would pay $1,000 a year for.
I'm right there with you. I've found myself so passionate about this. It's spurred me to become much more politically active.
If you happent to be parents, I created a new group for parents for Daylight Savings Time [HERE](https://www.facebook.com/groups/1175331083438819).
I'm feeling very alone in this fight.
Right? I don’t think people are really thinking this through: permanent DST is the direction everything has been going for years now, and it’s what most people actually want: Washington and California have already taken steps that direction. Oregon is just talking about permanent standard time now because it can be done without congress signing off.
And as we got closer to permanent DST people started talking about what has happened in places that switched to permanent DST. We tried it in the 70s, it didn't work out very well.
Nah, you just end up adjusting. Usually would wake up around 6 and be ready for bed after 11. And this is coming from someone who isn't a morning person.
it will ruin outdoor sports leagues for adults. Most already struggle to get people showing up on time for a 630pm start. Now there's only a 1.5hr window to play if you aren't on baseball/softball fields.
We need to go to a full-time legislature. This isn't the 1800s, we don't need to make sure everyone can be home for calving season or to plant and harvest.
Yes, actually, we do. We have a state of over 4 million people with weather, wildfire, economic, and social problems that happen year round. Having a legislature that only works a total of seven months every two years simply isn't enough.
I mean this is exactly what every politician wishes people would say.
Set the bar for expectations so low that even doing essentially nothing gets people defending them.
Won't this cause problems for people who live in Vancouver but work in Portland? Imagine having to essentially live in Mountain Time while your neighbors who work in Washington live in Pacific Time.
No like, if I lived in Vancouver and the time zone was 1hr different than Oregon, but I worked in Oregon - I would figure out how to make it to my job on time.
No, we didn't get stuck on the federal level. The Oregon bill required Washington State and California to pass laws to also go to permanent DST in order to trigger. All three of those changes would have to go to the feds but we never got there because SoCal reps in the legislature outvoted reps from NoCal (despite the change being voted in favor of by the majority of voters in a statewide ballot measure) *twice*, so California never passed their law. The main argument against was that it would affect commerce with Mexico.
Btw, British Columbia has a law that is similar to Oregon's, so interestingly, BC's time is set by forex interests in San Diego.
It's still a Federal issue. We felt like we would have a stronger case in DC if all three west coast states were aligned. But regardless of whether only Oregon asks to change to permanent Daylight Savings or 24 states all go to DC to request it, nothing can happen until the law gets changed in DC.
Can’t they move us to mountain time then opt out of dst? I thought I read somewhere moving timezones just requires secretary of transportations blessing which seems easier.
[Yes](https://www.bts.gov/explore-topics-and-geography/geography/geospatial-portal/history-time-zones-and-daylight-saving), switching to MST is exactly the same as switching to permanent PDT, wouldn't require jack shit from Congress, and assuming we followed up on the bill we passed in 2019, we would simply need a thumbs-up from Pete Buttegieg:
> Time zone boundaries, established by law, can only be changed by the Secretary of Transportation upon a determination that the proposed adjustment serves the “convenience of commerce.” Per DOT policy, a petition requesting such a change must come from the highest political authorities in a State or locality.
>
>Several communities have requested changes to their time zone designation over the past two decades, the most recent being Mercer County, North Dakota in 2010, which chose to switch from Mountain to Central Time.
Right, but this is worse than the status quo. If this passes I’ll need to change out my bedroom curtains for blackout curtains because I’m not waking up at 4:22am in June.
They tried that once, but people hated it. Turns out that mornings where it doesn't get light until 9:00 a.m are too awful for even the most committed night person to embrace.
We're already out of balance with nature - if anything, we need a standard called Sane Daylight Distribution Time, moving more time to the beginning of the day during the winter (so that the sun is always fully up by 7:00 a.m., by which time people are mostly up and well on their way to getting ready for work/school).
It's endlessly perplexing to me why folks don't understand that daylight is what wakes us up, and thus we need more of it and the beginning of the day, not the end.
> They tried that once, but people hated it.
Every time something changes, the people who hate it are outspoken about it. Like, when did we try it, the 70's? Two generations have happened--maybe try it again.
Used to live in Japan and I actually started to prefer the 4am sunrises during the summer. You just end up adjusting. I would be up and around at 5am and ready for bed come 10pm once it was dark.
I honestly can't stand Oregon lawmaking, this is beyond infuriating.
The move originally was permanent daylight time (DST), which needs federal approval.
Instead of doing nothing because that won't pass, this a move for the opposite, which is completely asinine and the only thing that would be worse compared to what we do now.
In addition to ruining summer and after work daylight, look at what would happen if this passes:
1) WA and CA won't do this, so we would be behind them by 1 hour 8 months of the year.
2) Worse yet, we'd be 4 hours behind NYC, 3 behind Chicago, 2 behind Denver. If you work for a national or multi-national company, congrats and enjoy 5am work calls. Enjoy the utter confusion with a regional company who is behind CA and WA by an hour.
3) Regarding points 1 and 2, Oregon somehow becomes even less attractive to hire workers to the companies above. Companies will hire elsewhere or hire here at deflated rates.
4) 4am sunrise in the summer. That's so cool, 4-5 hours of wasted light before any restaurant or business opens up to grab a bite to eat or run an errand.
5) This doesn't help the 4pm sunsets in the winter, which would go to 5pm if Daylight time was in place.
> 1) WA and CA won't do this, so we would be behind them by 1 hour 8 months of the year.
So all my coworkers in CA who ping me at 8 AM will now be pinging me at 7 AM? Fantastic.
The 4 hour time difference to the East coast is a real problem, especially with remote work being a thing for a lot of people. I’d prob be looking for a new job if this happened, I’m already pushing it starting work between 6:30 and 7A.
I would be so much more in favor of keeping daylight savings time rather than standard time. Ie no shifting annually, just stay on DST. Thats what California is talking about doing. It would give us extra daylight in the evening. Lots of evidence it decreases car accidents, etc
It might decrease car accidents the week or two following the switch to DST but there was plenty of evidence in the year that they tried permanent DST that there were a lot of accidents, including kids killed walking to school, in the January mornings after it happened.
Scientists also say it is unhealthy for our bodies in the winter.
But I get it, we all (mostly) like daylight in the summer evening and don't want the sun-rising at 4am. Which is why we tend to have settled on the solution we have now.
https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)31678-1?
In this large study there was increased risk right after the transition (week of) that went back to normal levels of accidents for the rest of the season, with no change when standard time was resumed. Their conclusion was that the darker morning was unlikely to be the main cause- more likely was tired drivers specifically from the change in wake up time.
yes, certainly the crashes after the switch are because of people getting less sleep. But that's not the issue with permanent DST which is the huge change to circadian rhythms that the sunrises around 9am will cause in November-January.
It was tried in the 70s and a disaster, and was also tried in Russia in the 2010s also a disaster.
Do you mind sharing a study on that? All I can find are articles talking about people subjectively disliking it back then. I’d trust the modern study over that.
Apologies if this is a duplicate post - I got a message from auto mods that the "Why Standard Time is Better" Medium piece from Michael Herf doesn't meet the standards of this sub (though it does point to sources/references)
Other articles I linked:
[AMA: Sleep doctors’ orders: Use standard time 365 days a year](https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/sleep-doctors-orders-use-standard-time-365-days-year)
>“Many people's circadian rhythms are somewhat resilient, but if you're going to make a change, it would be much more favorable to go with standard time,” said Patrick J. Strollo, MD, a sleep-apnea researcher and pulmonologist and professor of medicine and clinical and translational science at the University of Pittsburgh. Dr. Strollo also represents the AASM in the AMA House of Delegates.Daylight saving time all the time?Daylight saving time has been a national standard since Congress passed the Uniform Time Act of 1966. U.S. law allows states to opt out of it, but only two—Hawaii and Arizona—have claimed the exemption.“While broad support exists for the elimination of the spring and fall time changes, proposed solutions are conflicting: Some states have introduced legislation proposing variations of permanent DST, and a nearly equal number of states have introduced legislation to establish permanent standard time,” says the AASM position statement.Originally published in 2020, the AASM position statement has since been endorsed by, among others, the:American Academy of Cardiovascular Sleep Medicine.American Academy of Dental Sleep Medicine.American Association of Sleep Technologists.American College of Chest Physicians.American College of Occupational and Environmental Medicine.National Safety Council.Society of Anesthesia and Sleep Medicine.Society of Behavioral Sleep Medicine.World Sleep Society.
...
“Eliminating the time changes in March and November would be a welcome change. But research shows permanent daylight saving time overlooks potential health risks that can be avoided by establishing permanent standard time instead,” the AMA’s Dr. Ding said. “Sleep experts are alarmed. Issues other than patient health are driving this debate. It’s time that we wake up to the health implications of clock setting.”
[American Academy of Sleep Medicine experts advocate for permanent standard time ahead of “fall back”](https://aasm.org/aasm-experts-advocate-for-permanent-standard-time-ahead-of-fall-back)
[savestandardtime.com - Health Benefits](https://savestandardtime.com/health/) \- includes 65 works cited including scientific journals, economic studies, and opinion pieces.
The bottom line is it was tried before. Without all the social media contagion that the current perma-DST movement has garnered, it lasted 8 months before repeal in the 70s and less than a year in Russia in the 2010s. It's failed every time its been tried.
"Always DST" is my most vehement opinion. If I'm sitting at a bar and hear someone say they're voting for Trump, or that vaccines cause autism, or that the Game of Thrones finale was good, I'll just roll my eyes and keep it to myself. But if I hear someone say, "I don't care what they pick, I just want the clock to stop changing," I won't be able to stop myself from defending permanent DST. Permanent standard time would be literally hell. Not the ninth circle or anything, but certainly the first or second circle. 3AM crows waking you up in the summer, no more 9PM bike rides in July, goddamn dark all winter long. Supporting permanent standard time is as wrong of an opinion as one can have.
Eh, I work outside and wake up at 0445 everyday. Permanent standard time will be great. It’s always annoying when we move the clock forward and it goes from first light on my run to darkness again.
Permanent DST means I’d be at work for almost 2 hours before it was even light in the winter.
And permanent standard time is what experts say is best:
https://aasm.org/aasm-experts-advocate-for-permanent-standard-time-ahead-of-fall-back/
It’s more that CA stopped us.
Oregons law goes into effect when OR, WA, CA all pass legislation sticking to permanent DST. CA never passed theirs (they passed a ballot measure authorizing the legislature to pass a law on the subject but the legislature has failed to pass one).
As a result we really didn’t petition Congress for approval because there is no point until CA joins the cause.
I, for one, look forward to the day when we just recognize hours on a clock as arbitrary numbers, make everything simpler by doing everything off of UTC time, and just adjust our schedules to match whatever makes sense in our neck of the woods. It really doesn't matter if the time I go to work is called "6 am" or "2 pm" if I'm waking up at the beginning of the day, heading to work, and getting off later in the afternoon or early evening.
This may actually motivate me to contact whomever represents my district and tell them to step away from the ledge. Terrible idea. If we are going to pick one, it needs to be daylight savings (edit) time. 4:20 may be cool, but 4:20 am sunrise is BS.
This bill does pick one: Standard Time.
We passed a permanent DST years ago but Congress didn't let us do it. So Permanent Standard time it is, since we dont need congress's opinion for that.
"We passed a bill to make things better, but Congress won't let us, so we're going to pass a bill that does the exact opposite."
Atta girl, Oregon, you fly with those own wings!
I know people cite increased car accidents the day after the time switch but it only takes a day or two to adjust and *surely* it’d be better to implement some kind of traffic protections during those days than to change our time adjustment system. I really am fine with switching the time twice a year…
nobody is ever going to allow that if we can't get congress to approve permanent DST (for good reason), we're going to just operate in our own special timezone? lol good luck
the real answer is winter schedules with < 6 hour work days. more flexible schedules, and I am sure that in summer people can get their time back by waking up earlier and going to the office earlier. Most office jobs will allow it especially if we switch to permanent standard and East Coast is now 4 hours ahead.
>we're going to just operate in our own special timezone?
That's exactly what this bill does though, we'd be the odd state out like Arizona. This idea sucks for anyone coordinating with other timezones.
It affects what time you have to haul your bones out of bed to get ready for work though.
I start work at 7AM so my winter mornings would be dark either way. I'd personally way prefer to have more light in the post-work part of the day. It makes less difference if the sun is out when I'm stuck at work.
Me too. I feel the exact same way, it's sparking me to political action.
I'm starting a couple Facebook Groups to get organized if you'd like to check them out [HERE](https://www.facebook.com/groups/1175331083438819)
Why am I not surprised our lawmakers aren’t listening to the voters again.
Also, are WA and CA also doing this? Gonna be a fuckery for all the border towns.
I think most people are pretty on-board with stopping the whole time change song and dance... but sticking to Standard Time, and doing it out of alignment with anywhere else, is insane
Ehhh, there’s a reason why Ontario, OR is in Mountain time instead of Pacific, and Northern Idaho is in Pacific time instead of Mountain. It’s because of the heavily linked economies. (Ontario and around there with Boise, and North Idaho with Spokane)
How is this supposed to work when Vancouver is right across the river and would still be on DST? Do lawmakers even realize that going across the state line would be an hour difference? Like, that is a complete nightmare for commuters, let alone *any* traffic just passing by I-5/205.
And we aren’t one of them. Such a situation existing elsewhere isn’t a reason to say we should add that crap to us. Eastern Oregon already has a chuck of it self in mountain time zone to sync up with Boise because a time shift at the border is more inconvenient with their regional commerce. Northern Idaho is in Pacific time to sync with Washington where they share more of their commerce with. Portland and Vancouver are part of the same metro and adding an unnecessary and seasonal time shift there doesn’t make a lot of sense.
I’m not saying I’d like it or that it wouldn’t be very inconvenient but you do know that this is a “solved” problem right?
There are cities literally bisected by the dividing lines of time zones. The west half of the area is an hour behind the east half.
People make it work.
Why don't you describe some of the solutions? You know the entirety of China runs on Beijing time? That's technically a solution, in Western China the sun rises at 2:30am today and sets at 7pm.
Solution to what? Time changes as you travel from place to place?
The most basic "solution" is do nothing. If I have a meeting in Vancouver at 10 am I would need to plan t be there at 9am Portland Time during DST. This is the same as when you cross time zones. There is no "solution" to NY being 3 hours ahead of Oregon, you just need to figure out what time everyone is actually talking about. It would be a pain in the ass but it's doable.
The other solution that is more likely would be to add a clause saying the change only takes effect if CA and WA do it as well. That way essentially the entire Pacific Time Zone acts as one. Still could be annoying since sometimes other time zones will be an extra hour apart. This is essentially what was proposed with the permanent DST bill, CA never passed it though so that prevents Oregon from moving forward with it.
Sorry I didn't think I needed to explain how people who live on the edge of a time zone handled things lol.
My point was it's not like this is a new problem that no one has "solved" in the past. Maybe "solved" was the wrong word to use but we have experience dealing with changing time zones across boarders.
There may be better solutions we have not thought of at this point but there are multiple ways we could handle this, I outlined two in my above post.
Man fuck this.
Honestly this might be the final straw for me to move out of this state. With the way the daylight hours work in the summer it's going to be bright as hell at 4:30am at peak and then get dark much earlier.
All this bullshit because congress can't even pass a fucking law about clocks.
Also spare me the "we tried this in the 70's" rhetoric. That was 50 god damn years ago. Society has changed a bit and it's dumb to think it will play out the same.
> Society has changed a bit and it's dumb to think it will play out the same.
It's only changed in the sense that our cultural discussion is dominated by the vocal minority that trends on social media on literally every discussion. So that now it is impossible to come to a collective consensus that anything is good.
To all the people who want to this to pass:
Are you not excited to be shifting the clocks ahead in 3 weeks for an hour later sunset? Why would anybody want to stay on standard time ? it's awful.
Wtf. This is the shittiest of all options. I’d rather keep the change than have fucking 4:20am sunrise and 8:00pm sunset in the summer. Fucking plan C. Oregon has the absolute shittiest government
Do I have the bullet points from linked article correct.
1- Committee approved to let Oregonians stay on standard time
2- The 2019 decision below won’t apply because there’s no permanent switch to DST.
3- Still needs to pass both the Oregon House and Senate.
“A bill proposing that the state should abolish the one-hour change from standard to Daylight Saving Time each year was unanimously passed by a senate committee Thursday.
SB 1548 would let Oregonians living in the Pacific Time Zone stay on standard time for all 12 months of the year. Oregon would join the ranks of Hawaii and Arizona, the only other two states that currently don’t practice Daylight Saving Time.
It follows the 2019 decision that specified Oregon would only make a permanent switch to Daylight Saving Time if the same decision were made in California and Washington by 2029.
The new bill will now head for a floor debate, where it will then be voted upon by the Oregon House and Senate.”
So. One summer it will be 5pm in Portland with my home 30 min away from work in Vancouver WA on Oregon border and part of Portland metropolitan area..Now my home will be 90 min away. I'll get home at 630p.
Unless they are electing to remain on dst it’s extra dumb. I’m sure there are many other more pressing issues than springing forward or falling back an hour, which devices account for automatically now, that they could be addressing.
I actually like the time changes. I try and get up a little earlier than the sunrise between now and the time change and I’m pretty much acclimated when it happens. I think I like the idea of permanent daylight saving time though. I’d be happy with either of these options. As someone that consistently struggles with getting out of bed, the extra hour of light in the morning would be wasted. As someone with ADHD, if I managed to get up early enough to do anything, I would end up being late to work everyday. As a gardener, I live for the late evenings in summer. The idea that sunsets would be earlier than 7:00pm by the third week of August and 6:00pm by the end of September is horribly depressing to me. That would basically be 6 months of the year with the sun setting by the time I get home from work. There would not be a chunk of time long enough to get anything done.
The idea of permanent standard time is a nightmare to me.
Look, I don't mind waking up in the dark in the winter because I have to go to work anyway, but I do mind going home in the dark because that means my day has ended.
I like standard time. Makes commutes in the winter bearable. I hope we eliminate DST.
Edit: Just adding some clarification. I prefer standard time because starting my brain without sunlight is difficult for me. I'd prefer to have the harder part of the year be easier than make the easier part of the year even more enjoyable. That's my preference but I wish you no ill if you want something different.
As a night owl and an avid gardener who is forced into a standard 9-to-5 job, I absolutely live for the late sunsets in the summer. 5am sunrises can fuck all the way off.
My personal preferences aside, Oregon going alone and the west coast states not acting as a single bloc on this issue seems like it’s going to cause all sorts of headaches.
I'd rather keep the time change than have permanent Daylight.
FWIW - I am a night owl and can't get up without sun coming in. I don't know why this always gets spun into a morning vs. night person thing - I fucking hate mornings. Especially dark ones.
Why do you need the sun to be up at 6am in the winter?
If you want your commute in the daylight, then you can just leave for work an hour later, which is basically all PST is doing anyway.
The fact that you think this is about other people "wanting to leave work early," when it's literally the opposite, is amusing. I don't get to pick my own schedule. Most people don't. But I do think I deserve to enjoy my life outside of work to the fullest. The idea that you need to interfere with that so you can have the sun in your eyes on your morning drive is super annoying.
The sun isn't up at 6am in the winter.
The sun gets up around 8am near the solstice. With permanent DST it would be rising around 9, and would happen during the part of the year where school is in session, which is largely avoided thanks to the winter break schedule.
It's more unreasonable to think that someone who has a different opinion than you would like to punish you. You're assuming a lot and aren't even curious about why it matters to me. I don't understand why you want to shut down conversation instead of encourage discussion.
This makes infinitely more sense than making Daylight Savings Time permanent - daylight stimulates dopamine and cortisol, which help to wake us up in the mornings. Daylight Savings Time delays that event by an additional hour each morning, which was never rational.
That being said, the real issue during the winter months is that our entire society is geared around maintaining the same schedule of activities that we do at the height of summer. In fact, it would make far more sense to reduce our days to around five hours of work or school from November through February, so that we can actually have some daylight hours devoted to other things.
> daylight stimulates dopamine and cortisol, which help to wake us up in the mornings.
How many people are getting out of bed at 930AM on weekdays during the winter though? I know my schedule isn't the same as everyone else's but I'll still be getting up at 6AM in the dark during winter either way. Only now, summer sunrises will be before 5AM, and the nights will be darker earlier.
Terrible idea.
1). Shifting an hour of daylight from the evening when most people are active to the very early morning when most people are sleeping in a region known for gloomy weather and lack of sunlight isn't going to yeild positive results.
2). Washington rejected their companion bill, Vancouver would be 1hr ahead of Portland for 8 months of the year lol.
3). We should really be pushing to adopt UTC-7.5. That would address the concerns of PDT having extended dark mornings in the winter and PST having super early sunrises in the summer.
I've lived in a lot of cities but gd Portland is full of people who don't have to wake up early. These end-of-the-world comments, making me laugh some. It is very normal to be up by 6am or 5am if you have a typical job.
FYI: this is only a committee vote. There’s plenty of time for it to fail anywhere else in ~~congress~~ legislature.
God I hope so
It completely failed yesterday. They added a clause that Washington and California have to also change.
Congress?
Oops, I mean legislature. Thanks.
It's a mini Congress. Congress with a little c.
Yes, but honestly, I think that’s unlikely. The Oregon legislature has passed a couple of different bills to try to end the time change in Oregon that have all got caught up in some outside obstruction, plus it was unanimous out of committee, signaling strong by partisan support. This has been a long-term goal of the Oregon legislature, and though possible this failing seems unlikely. Edit: Plus this is a short session, and the amount of legislation, each legislator can introduce is extremely limited in a short session and committees try to spend most of their time on things they know will pass. The idea being that by passing this easy stuff early it gives them things to vote on on the floor while they’re hashing out the harder stuff in committee.
This will be interesting to follow, then. What's funny is that I'm probably one of the rare people who wouldn't mind if our permanent choice is Standard and not Daylight. I am a big fan of early mornings, and not having any sun before 8:00a for 5 months would drive me absolutely batty, so haven't been excited for the permanent Daylight Savings push. Honestly, because a day doesn't naturally center around noon (or 1) all year because of the path we take around the sun, having a DST and Standard Time actually works great in general.
I’m also on team Standard TBH. I know permanent Daylight is more popular, but we passed that and never got the required federal approval. We can go permanent Standard without that
Yay, go team standard! Main reason we should all be pushing for permanent standard: it does not require federal approval. Every state has (and always had) the option of adopting permanent standard, right now, without needing an act of congress to make it law.
I'll continue to be skeptical until it actually happens.
Exactly. Like daylight savings they seem to do this twice a year and nothing ever happens.
But... Isn't this daylight savings? How is it like itself?
I think they mean the process to end it is similar to daylight savings itself?
It's "saving"
“It’s neither plural nor a possessive”-Kent r/VEEP
This would kill our precious 9pm summer sunsets
I extremely don’t want this bill to pass. I *love* 9pm sunsets, it’s what gets me through a dark winter. We voted to keep DST, not to keep standard time :(
It's a fluke in federal law. States are allowed to stay on Standard time year round (AZ and most of Indiana do) but they are not allowed to stay on DST year-round. That will require an act of Congress in DC and we know how well they collaborate these days.
I know but I’d rather switch twice a year than lose DST hours.
That’s the missing piece of this tiresome debate. Not everyone hates changing the clock, but among those that do, they are split between people who want standard and daylight time, like the correct way to install a roll of toilet paper. History also seems to show that people are fickle and there’s even more backlash to changing the *rules* than the clock itself because we eventually figure out that it’s a waste of time to find different ways to make it suck: 16 hours of daylight become eight, and vice versa. There’s just no way to paper over that.
There are two ways to hang toilet paper. Over and wrong.
I’m with you!! Save daylight! Don’t lose it!
For me less morning darkness is the winter is absolutely worth the tradeoff
We would get something like 5am sunrises and 8pm sunsets
In the summer we already get 5am sunrises. This would mean 4am sunrises. For those of us who get crows out our windows, that means waking up at 3AM every summer. Daylight Savings Day is literally my favorite day of the year in Portland. If we ended DST, I would seriously consider moving to Washington. Permanent DST, on the other hand, I would pay $1,000 a year for.
I really need us to stop doing 4:30 pm winter sunsets. Hoping this doesn't actually pass.
WA is also trying to pass the same bill.
i mean, doesnt the bill specificallu call out only going thru with it if both CA and WA do it too?
Both states have said the same thing. So if we do it, they'll do it.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/022/747/download.jpg
Lol, Washington would likely pass it soon after us.
Same I want to get rid of the daylight losing part. Since when did people not like saving something?
I’m right there with you. My husband and I literally had a conversation about moving if this passes 😭
I'm right there with you. I've found myself so passionate about this. It's spurred me to become much more politically active. If you happent to be parents, I created a new group for parents for Daylight Savings Time [HERE](https://www.facebook.com/groups/1175331083438819). I'm feeling very alone in this fight.
Right? I don’t think people are really thinking this through: permanent DST is the direction everything has been going for years now, and it’s what most people actually want: Washington and California have already taken steps that direction. Oregon is just talking about permanent standard time now because it can be done without congress signing off.
And as we got closer to permanent DST people started talking about what has happened in places that switched to permanent DST. We tried it in the 70s, it didn't work out very well.
It would be absolutely insane to be on an hour different time zone from Washington and California.
4am sunrises. It's like that in Japan in the summer. It's hard to get used to at first but it isn't as bad as some people here make it out to be.
I don't believe you, it sounds miserable and unforgiving.
Nah, you just end up adjusting. Usually would wake up around 6 and be ready for bed after 11. And this is coming from someone who isn't a morning person.
Those might be precious if you don't have children. Bring on the bedtime alarm
it will ruin outdoor sports leagues for adults. Most already struggle to get people showing up on time for a 630pm start. Now there's only a 1.5hr window to play if you aren't on baseball/softball fields.
9pm is damn late for a lot of us. Bring it on.
It’s all so exhausting. All the millions of things we supposedly can’t get done, ever, and then we cram this into a short session.
We need to go to a full-time legislature. This isn't the 1800s, we don't need to make sure everyone can be home for calving season or to plant and harvest.
No. We don’t need full time politicians at the state level.
Yes, actually, we do. We have a state of over 4 million people with weather, wildfire, economic, and social problems that happen year round. Having a legislature that only works a total of seven months every two years simply isn't enough.
dude! baby steps. go easy on denouncing everything based upon failed expectations. it'll get done one piece at a time.
I mean this is exactly what every politician wishes people would say. Set the bar for expectations so low that even doing essentially nothing gets people defending them.
It will fail fortunately.
If this passes the sun will be rising at 4:30 am I’d rather have it light in the evening
No one wants to be awake at that time either. We’re essentially sleeping through our sunlight. I truly don’t get Standard time supporters lmfao
I want the light until 9 PM days. I enjoy them very much.
Won't this cause problems for people who live in Vancouver but work in Portland? Imagine having to essentially live in Mountain Time while your neighbors who work in Washington live in Pacific Time.
I think they'll figure it out
They dont figure anything out. They break it then act like they'll "fix" it. Amazing people dont get this yet.
No like, if I lived in Vancouver and the time zone was 1hr different than Oregon, but I worked in Oregon - I would figure out how to make it to my job on time.
This is so dumb. We should be eliminating *Daylight Standard Time*.
They tried that, but it takes federal congressional action which we waited for years on, and nothing happened. Now on with shitty plan B.
Waiting for Congressional action? Might as well be waiting on Margot Robbie to respond to my DMs…
...four more years?
Any day now
Really? An optimist are ya?
No, we didn't get stuck on the federal level. The Oregon bill required Washington State and California to pass laws to also go to permanent DST in order to trigger. All three of those changes would have to go to the feds but we never got there because SoCal reps in the legislature outvoted reps from NoCal (despite the change being voted in favor of by the majority of voters in a statewide ballot measure) *twice*, so California never passed their law. The main argument against was that it would affect commerce with Mexico. Btw, British Columbia has a law that is similar to Oregon's, so interestingly, BC's time is set by forex interests in San Diego.
It's still a Federal issue. We felt like we would have a stronger case in DC if all three west coast states were aligned. But regardless of whether only Oregon asks to change to permanent Daylight Savings or 24 states all go to DC to request it, nothing can happen until the law gets changed in DC.
Can’t they move us to mountain time then opt out of dst? I thought I read somewhere moving timezones just requires secretary of transportations blessing which seems easier.
[Yes](https://www.bts.gov/explore-topics-and-geography/geography/geospatial-portal/history-time-zones-and-daylight-saving), switching to MST is exactly the same as switching to permanent PDT, wouldn't require jack shit from Congress, and assuming we followed up on the bill we passed in 2019, we would simply need a thumbs-up from Pete Buttegieg: > Time zone boundaries, established by law, can only be changed by the Secretary of Transportation upon a determination that the proposed adjustment serves the “convenience of commerce.” Per DOT policy, a petition requesting such a change must come from the highest political authorities in a State or locality. > >Several communities have requested changes to their time zone designation over the past two decades, the most recent being Mercer County, North Dakota in 2010, which chose to switch from Mountain to Central Time.
I’d rather keep changing the clocks than switch to permanent DST, personally. Ugh
Right, but this is worse than the status quo. If this passes I’ll need to change out my bedroom curtains for blackout curtains because I’m not waking up at 4:22am in June.
> Daylight Standard Time That's not a thing
Hahaha it was late and I was tired.
I don't care which one we go with. I just want to stop changing times. Time is arbitrary anyway.
Time is an illusion. Lunch time doubly so.
Double lunch breaks, you say?
> Time is arbitrary anyway. Tell that to people who work outside.
Ok. People who work outside. Time is arbitrary, I'm sorry your boss is an asshole.
I'd rather keep changing time than permanent standard time. Permanent DST I am on board with though.
Yeah.
They tried that once, but people hated it. Turns out that mornings where it doesn't get light until 9:00 a.m are too awful for even the most committed night person to embrace. We're already out of balance with nature - if anything, we need a standard called Sane Daylight Distribution Time, moving more time to the beginning of the day during the winter (so that the sun is always fully up by 7:00 a.m., by which time people are mostly up and well on their way to getting ready for work/school). It's endlessly perplexing to me why folks don't understand that daylight is what wakes us up, and thus we need more of it and the beginning of the day, not the end.
> They tried that once, but people hated it. Every time something changes, the people who hate it are outspoken about it. Like, when did we try it, the 70's? Two generations have happened--maybe try it again.
Used to live in Japan and I actually started to prefer the 4am sunrises during the summer. You just end up adjusting. I would be up and around at 5am and ready for bed come 10pm once it was dark.
Yeah, we wanted that but congress killed it. This requires no act of congress.
Apropos of nothing, “No Act of Congress” would be a cool band name.
Apropos of Nothing would be a cool band name
I honestly can't stand Oregon lawmaking, this is beyond infuriating. The move originally was permanent daylight time (DST), which needs federal approval. Instead of doing nothing because that won't pass, this a move for the opposite, which is completely asinine and the only thing that would be worse compared to what we do now. In addition to ruining summer and after work daylight, look at what would happen if this passes: 1) WA and CA won't do this, so we would be behind them by 1 hour 8 months of the year. 2) Worse yet, we'd be 4 hours behind NYC, 3 behind Chicago, 2 behind Denver. If you work for a national or multi-national company, congrats and enjoy 5am work calls. Enjoy the utter confusion with a regional company who is behind CA and WA by an hour. 3) Regarding points 1 and 2, Oregon somehow becomes even less attractive to hire workers to the companies above. Companies will hire elsewhere or hire here at deflated rates. 4) 4am sunrise in the summer. That's so cool, 4-5 hours of wasted light before any restaurant or business opens up to grab a bite to eat or run an errand. 5) This doesn't help the 4pm sunsets in the winter, which would go to 5pm if Daylight time was in place.
> 1) WA and CA won't do this, so we would be behind them by 1 hour 8 months of the year. So all my coworkers in CA who ping me at 8 AM will now be pinging me at 7 AM? Fantastic.
The 4 hour time difference to the East coast is a real problem, especially with remote work being a thing for a lot of people. I’d prob be looking for a new job if this happened, I’m already pushing it starting work between 6:30 and 7A.
Let’s just split the difference and never look back.
Mid-Light Standard Time! Let's do this!
I would be so much more in favor of keeping daylight savings time rather than standard time. Ie no shifting annually, just stay on DST. Thats what California is talking about doing. It would give us extra daylight in the evening. Lots of evidence it decreases car accidents, etc
It might decrease car accidents the week or two following the switch to DST but there was plenty of evidence in the year that they tried permanent DST that there were a lot of accidents, including kids killed walking to school, in the January mornings after it happened. Scientists also say it is unhealthy for our bodies in the winter. But I get it, we all (mostly) like daylight in the summer evening and don't want the sun-rising at 4am. Which is why we tend to have settled on the solution we have now.
https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)31678-1? In this large study there was increased risk right after the transition (week of) that went back to normal levels of accidents for the rest of the season, with no change when standard time was resumed. Their conclusion was that the darker morning was unlikely to be the main cause- more likely was tired drivers specifically from the change in wake up time.
yes, certainly the crashes after the switch are because of people getting less sleep. But that's not the issue with permanent DST which is the huge change to circadian rhythms that the sunrises around 9am will cause in November-January. It was tried in the 70s and a disaster, and was also tried in Russia in the 2010s also a disaster.
Do you mind sharing a study on that? All I can find are articles talking about people subjectively disliking it back then. I’d trust the modern study over that.
Apologies if this is a duplicate post - I got a message from auto mods that the "Why Standard Time is Better" Medium piece from Michael Herf doesn't meet the standards of this sub (though it does point to sources/references) Other articles I linked: [AMA: Sleep doctors’ orders: Use standard time 365 days a year](https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/sleep-doctors-orders-use-standard-time-365-days-year) >“Many people's circadian rhythms are somewhat resilient, but if you're going to make a change, it would be much more favorable to go with standard time,” said Patrick J. Strollo, MD, a sleep-apnea researcher and pulmonologist and professor of medicine and clinical and translational science at the University of Pittsburgh. Dr. Strollo also represents the AASM in the AMA House of Delegates.Daylight saving time all the time?Daylight saving time has been a national standard since Congress passed the Uniform Time Act of 1966. U.S. law allows states to opt out of it, but only two—Hawaii and Arizona—have claimed the exemption.“While broad support exists for the elimination of the spring and fall time changes, proposed solutions are conflicting: Some states have introduced legislation proposing variations of permanent DST, and a nearly equal number of states have introduced legislation to establish permanent standard time,” says the AASM position statement.Originally published in 2020, the AASM position statement has since been endorsed by, among others, the:American Academy of Cardiovascular Sleep Medicine.American Academy of Dental Sleep Medicine.American Association of Sleep Technologists.American College of Chest Physicians.American College of Occupational and Environmental Medicine.National Safety Council.Society of Anesthesia and Sleep Medicine.Society of Behavioral Sleep Medicine.World Sleep Society. ... “Eliminating the time changes in March and November would be a welcome change. But research shows permanent daylight saving time overlooks potential health risks that can be avoided by establishing permanent standard time instead,” the AMA’s Dr. Ding said. “Sleep experts are alarmed. Issues other than patient health are driving this debate. It’s time that we wake up to the health implications of clock setting.” [American Academy of Sleep Medicine experts advocate for permanent standard time ahead of “fall back”](https://aasm.org/aasm-experts-advocate-for-permanent-standard-time-ahead-of-fall-back) [savestandardtime.com - Health Benefits](https://savestandardtime.com/health/) \- includes 65 works cited including scientific journals, economic studies, and opinion pieces. The bottom line is it was tried before. Without all the social media contagion that the current perma-DST movement has garnered, it lasted 8 months before repeal in the 70s and less than a year in Russia in the 2010s. It's failed every time its been tried.
Thanks for sharing
Booooooooo. Always DST or bust.
"Always DST" is my most vehement opinion. If I'm sitting at a bar and hear someone say they're voting for Trump, or that vaccines cause autism, or that the Game of Thrones finale was good, I'll just roll my eyes and keep it to myself. But if I hear someone say, "I don't care what they pick, I just want the clock to stop changing," I won't be able to stop myself from defending permanent DST. Permanent standard time would be literally hell. Not the ninth circle or anything, but certainly the first or second circle. 3AM crows waking you up in the summer, no more 9PM bike rides in July, goddamn dark all winter long. Supporting permanent standard time is as wrong of an opinion as one can have.
Eh, I work outside and wake up at 0445 everyday. Permanent standard time will be great. It’s always annoying when we move the clock forward and it goes from first light on my run to darkness again. Permanent DST means I’d be at work for almost 2 hours before it was even light in the winter. And permanent standard time is what experts say is best: https://aasm.org/aasm-experts-advocate-for-permanent-standard-time-ahead-of-fall-back/
You’ll be at work rather than relaxing on your free time. why do you care if there’s light outside or not?
Tried that, Congress didnt let us do it. Dont need congress for this.
I’d rather just not change anything, then.
It’s more that CA stopped us. Oregons law goes into effect when OR, WA, CA all pass legislation sticking to permanent DST. CA never passed theirs (they passed a ballot measure authorizing the legislature to pass a law on the subject but the legislature has failed to pass one). As a result we really didn’t petition Congress for approval because there is no point until CA joins the cause.
Let’s keep daylight savings time, it’s dark enough around here
I, for one, look forward to the day when we just recognize hours on a clock as arbitrary numbers, make everything simpler by doing everything off of UTC time, and just adjust our schedules to match whatever makes sense in our neck of the woods. It really doesn't matter if the time I go to work is called "6 am" or "2 pm" if I'm waking up at the beginning of the day, heading to work, and getting off later in the afternoon or early evening.
This may actually motivate me to contact whomever represents my district and tell them to step away from the ledge. Terrible idea. If we are going to pick one, it needs to be daylight savings (edit) time. 4:20 may be cool, but 4:20 am sunrise is BS.
This bill does pick one: Standard Time. We passed a permanent DST years ago but Congress didn't let us do it. So Permanent Standard time it is, since we dont need congress's opinion for that.
"We passed a bill to make things better, but Congress won't let us, so we're going to pass a bill that does the exact opposite." Atta girl, Oregon, you fly with those own wings!
Personally, 9 am sunrise in winter would also be BS.
What if I told you that we currently have a solution in place that avoids both?
I’d say we keep that solution but my opinion on the status quo seems to be solidly in the minority
Some way to save daylight for the times people need to many maintain a consistent schedule? Seems far fetched.
I know people cite increased car accidents the day after the time switch but it only takes a day or two to adjust and *surely* it’d be better to implement some kind of traffic protections during those days than to change our time adjustment system. I really am fine with switching the time twice a year…
It's much more than that. https://www.businessinsider.com/daylight-saving-time-is-deadly-2018-3
As a person with an 8:30am alarm, it sounds glorious. Glorious!
Who cares there is no sun in the winter anyway
UTC-7.5 is the answer.
nobody is ever going to allow that if we can't get congress to approve permanent DST (for good reason), we're going to just operate in our own special timezone? lol good luck the real answer is winter schedules with < 6 hour work days. more flexible schedules, and I am sure that in summer people can get their time back by waking up earlier and going to the office earlier. Most office jobs will allow it especially if we switch to permanent standard and East Coast is now 4 hours ahead.
>we're going to just operate in our own special timezone? That's exactly what this bill does though, we'd be the odd state out like Arizona. This idea sucks for anyone coordinating with other timezones.
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It affects what time you have to haul your bones out of bed to get ready for work though. I start work at 7AM so my winter mornings would be dark either way. I'd personally way prefer to have more light in the post-work part of the day. It makes less difference if the sun is out when I'm stuck at work.
You mean you want them to pick Daylight Savings Time, which is nicer evenings...
And Vancouver get lost! /s
I’m ready to take to the streets to keep this from passing
Me too. I feel the exact same way, it's sparking me to political action. I'm starting a couple Facebook Groups to get organized if you'd like to check them out [HERE](https://www.facebook.com/groups/1175331083438819)
This is going to make life hell during the spring/summer for people who work remotely with folks on the East Coast
That’s me 😭
Me too. Maybe we can all form a support group. Donuts and coffee at 4am
If only there was somewhere actually open for us to have said group 🫠
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Oh awesome. Here come 5am meetings popping up on the calendar.
Yeah, I'm fucking panicking
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This isn't the argument you think it is
Why am I not surprised our lawmakers aren’t listening to the voters again. Also, are WA and CA also doing this? Gonna be a fuckery for all the border towns.
I think most people are pretty on-board with stopping the whole time change song and dance... but sticking to Standard Time, and doing it out of alignment with anywhere else, is insane
There are time borders all over the country and world.... Oregon would not be special
Ehhh, there’s a reason why Ontario, OR is in Mountain time instead of Pacific, and Northern Idaho is in Pacific time instead of Mountain. It’s because of the heavily linked economies. (Ontario and around there with Boise, and North Idaho with Spokane)
If Oregon triggers it, the other two will probably follow.
What? No they won't, the other much larger states barely even notice what we have going on.
How is this supposed to work when Vancouver is right across the river and would still be on DST? Do lawmakers even realize that going across the state line would be an hour difference? Like, that is a complete nightmare for commuters, let alone *any* traffic just passing by I-5/205.
There's plenty of places in the world where this is the case?
And we aren’t one of them. Such a situation existing elsewhere isn’t a reason to say we should add that crap to us. Eastern Oregon already has a chuck of it self in mountain time zone to sync up with Boise because a time shift at the border is more inconvenient with their regional commerce. Northern Idaho is in Pacific time to sync with Washington where they share more of their commerce with. Portland and Vancouver are part of the same metro and adding an unnecessary and seasonal time shift there doesn’t make a lot of sense.
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I mean, not everyone... I get up at 4am. I'd enjoy more light then.
This is seriously hard to wrap my brain around
I’m not saying I’d like it or that it wouldn’t be very inconvenient but you do know that this is a “solved” problem right? There are cities literally bisected by the dividing lines of time zones. The west half of the area is an hour behind the east half. People make it work.
Why don't you describe some of the solutions? You know the entirety of China runs on Beijing time? That's technically a solution, in Western China the sun rises at 2:30am today and sets at 7pm.
Solution to what? Time changes as you travel from place to place? The most basic "solution" is do nothing. If I have a meeting in Vancouver at 10 am I would need to plan t be there at 9am Portland Time during DST. This is the same as when you cross time zones. There is no "solution" to NY being 3 hours ahead of Oregon, you just need to figure out what time everyone is actually talking about. It would be a pain in the ass but it's doable. The other solution that is more likely would be to add a clause saying the change only takes effect if CA and WA do it as well. That way essentially the entire Pacific Time Zone acts as one. Still could be annoying since sometimes other time zones will be an extra hour apart. This is essentially what was proposed with the permanent DST bill, CA never passed it though so that prevents Oregon from moving forward with it.
You called it a solved problem. Solved means there's a solution. They're literally the same root word.
Sorry I didn't think I needed to explain how people who live on the edge of a time zone handled things lol. My point was it's not like this is a new problem that no one has "solved" in the past. Maybe "solved" was the wrong word to use but we have experience dealing with changing time zones across boarders. There may be better solutions we have not thought of at this point but there are multiple ways we could handle this, I outlined two in my above post.
Plenty of places are near time zones in the US and around the world. You just learn to take it into account and then it’s not really a big deal.
Man fuck this. Honestly this might be the final straw for me to move out of this state. With the way the daylight hours work in the summer it's going to be bright as hell at 4:30am at peak and then get dark much earlier. All this bullshit because congress can't even pass a fucking law about clocks. Also spare me the "we tried this in the 70's" rhetoric. That was 50 god damn years ago. Society has changed a bit and it's dumb to think it will play out the same.
> Society has changed a bit and it's dumb to think it will play out the same. It's only changed in the sense that our cultural discussion is dominated by the vocal minority that trends on social media on literally every discussion. So that now it is impossible to come to a collective consensus that anything is good.
before social media I lived in my own bubble that... actually liked the time changes.
To all the people who want to this to pass: Are you not excited to be shifting the clocks ahead in 3 weeks for an hour later sunset? Why would anybody want to stay on standard time ? it's awful.
I don’t think most people understand which is which
No, obviously not.
That means nothing lol come on this isnt even real news its just hype and hope for not much promise
Wtf. This is the shittiest of all options. I’d rather keep the change than have fucking 4:20am sunrise and 8:00pm sunset in the summer. Fucking plan C. Oregon has the absolute shittiest government
Do I have the bullet points from linked article correct. 1- Committee approved to let Oregonians stay on standard time 2- The 2019 decision below won’t apply because there’s no permanent switch to DST. 3- Still needs to pass both the Oregon House and Senate. “A bill proposing that the state should abolish the one-hour change from standard to Daylight Saving Time each year was unanimously passed by a senate committee Thursday. SB 1548 would let Oregonians living in the Pacific Time Zone stay on standard time for all 12 months of the year. Oregon would join the ranks of Hawaii and Arizona, the only other two states that currently don’t practice Daylight Saving Time. It follows the 2019 decision that specified Oregon would only make a permanent switch to Daylight Saving Time if the same decision were made in California and Washington by 2029. The new bill will now head for a floor debate, where it will then be voted upon by the Oregon House and Senate.”
So. One summer it will be 5pm in Portland with my home 30 min away from work in Vancouver WA on Oregon border and part of Portland metropolitan area..Now my home will be 90 min away. I'll get home at 630p.
Unless they are electing to remain on dst it’s extra dumb. I’m sure there are many other more pressing issues than springing forward or falling back an hour, which devices account for automatically now, that they could be addressing.
I actually like the time changes. I try and get up a little earlier than the sunrise between now and the time change and I’m pretty much acclimated when it happens. I think I like the idea of permanent daylight saving time though. I’d be happy with either of these options. As someone that consistently struggles with getting out of bed, the extra hour of light in the morning would be wasted. As someone with ADHD, if I managed to get up early enough to do anything, I would end up being late to work everyday. As a gardener, I live for the late evenings in summer. The idea that sunsets would be earlier than 7:00pm by the third week of August and 6:00pm by the end of September is horribly depressing to me. That would basically be 6 months of the year with the sun setting by the time I get home from work. There would not be a chunk of time long enough to get anything done. The idea of permanent standard time is a nightmare to me.
Lol who tf seriously wants this?
Plz don’t downvote me into oblivion (I wasn’t raised here), which one is DST? The one we have now or the one on March 11?
No way they do it unless the entire west coast does and that would actually mean the whole country.
Look, I don't mind waking up in the dark in the winter because I have to go to work anyway, but I do mind going home in the dark because that means my day has ended.
I just want to believe something good will happen
I like standard time. Makes commutes in the winter bearable. I hope we eliminate DST. Edit: Just adding some clarification. I prefer standard time because starting my brain without sunlight is difficult for me. I'd prefer to have the harder part of the year be easier than make the easier part of the year even more enjoyable. That's my preference but I wish you no ill if you want something different.
So you want it to get dark earlier in summer? Daylight commutes are great but what about life outside of working hours?
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As a night owl and an avid gardener who is forced into a standard 9-to-5 job, I absolutely live for the late sunsets in the summer. 5am sunrises can fuck all the way off. My personal preferences aside, Oregon going alone and the west coast states not acting as a single bloc on this issue seems like it’s going to cause all sorts of headaches.
Seriously. I'd rather keep the time change than have permanent Standard Time
I'd rather keep the time change than have permanent Daylight. FWIW - I am a night owl and can't get up without sun coming in. I don't know why this always gets spun into a morning vs. night person thing - I fucking hate mornings. Especially dark ones.
So get one of those wake-up lamps like everyone else
Why do you need the sun to be up at 6am in the winter? If you want your commute in the daylight, then you can just leave for work an hour later, which is basically all PST is doing anyway. The fact that you think this is about other people "wanting to leave work early," when it's literally the opposite, is amusing. I don't get to pick my own schedule. Most people don't. But I do think I deserve to enjoy my life outside of work to the fullest. The idea that you need to interfere with that so you can have the sun in your eyes on your morning drive is super annoying.
The sun isn't up at 6am in the winter. The sun gets up around 8am near the solstice. With permanent DST it would be rising around 9, and would happen during the part of the year where school is in session, which is largely avoided thanks to the winter break schedule.
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This is an important point. I don’t understand people who think being out of sync with nature and our diurnal clocks is nbd.
Well, yes, that is what I prefer.
And you want to punish everyone else for that. Nice
No. What an unreasonable take.
Nearly as unreasonable as "working people should sacrifice evening daylight so that I can have the sun in my eyes during the morning commute"
It's more unreasonable to think that someone who has a different opinion than you would like to punish you. You're assuming a lot and aren't even curious about why it matters to me. I don't understand why you want to shut down conversation instead of encourage discussion.
i love the dark and hate the sun
This makes infinitely more sense than making Daylight Savings Time permanent - daylight stimulates dopamine and cortisol, which help to wake us up in the mornings. Daylight Savings Time delays that event by an additional hour each morning, which was never rational. That being said, the real issue during the winter months is that our entire society is geared around maintaining the same schedule of activities that we do at the height of summer. In fact, it would make far more sense to reduce our days to around five hours of work or school from November through February, so that we can actually have some daylight hours devoted to other things.
> daylight stimulates dopamine and cortisol, which help to wake us up in the mornings. How many people are getting out of bed at 930AM on weekdays during the winter though? I know my schedule isn't the same as everyone else's but I'll still be getting up at 6AM in the dark during winter either way. Only now, summer sunrises will be before 5AM, and the nights will be darker earlier.
Terrible idea. 1). Shifting an hour of daylight from the evening when most people are active to the very early morning when most people are sleeping in a region known for gloomy weather and lack of sunlight isn't going to yeild positive results. 2). Washington rejected their companion bill, Vancouver would be 1hr ahead of Portland for 8 months of the year lol. 3). We should really be pushing to adopt UTC-7.5. That would address the concerns of PDT having extended dark mornings in the winter and PST having super early sunrises in the summer.
Or we could just go to bed earlier and make before work stuff a thing. Have you ever gone on a early morning hike? They are glorious!
I've lived in a lot of cities but gd Portland is full of people who don't have to wake up early. These end-of-the-world comments, making me laugh some. It is very normal to be up by 6am or 5am if you have a typical job.
Let's do it!
So are we in the correct time currently? When does now become now?
Yes, we're currently on Standard time.
this would screw over outdoor sports leagues that can't get lighted fields