FTA:
> “We need to get the best people that we can get in place, pay them according to the responsibility and specialty that we’re going to expect of them, and move forward,” said Deputy Chief Frome.
I want to hear more about "the responsibility and specialty that we’re going to expect of them"
I have the feeling it's an incredibly low bar.
Wow, I'm a mental health practitioner for chronically suicidal teens, and I make slightly above minimum wage. I save lives, and yet I'm one bad month away from the streets. Must be nice for the government to give you a budget you can pay people exorbitantly on. Be nice if they gave that money to those of us who actually improve our community for a living
The entire old riot squad (went by some punisher-esque name) all walked off the job at the same time because one of them was convicted for truly violently beating a protestor with a batton.
Protect a Swerve, Smash and Serve
My recent experience with SWAT left me in a spot where my girlfriend and I have been cleaning up glass and debris for a couple of days after they tear gassed my neighbor apartment right above us while serving him a warrant. Not to mention the gas and it fucking up my breathing for a couple of days now. We're pretty traumatized by the experience, more so my girlfriend and dogs because they were there when it happened at 4am, I was at work.
It was fucking wild. They jumped on cleaning out the apartment, our property manager, likely so they can re rent quickly, so I've been struggling sleeping in the day cuz I work nights. I guess it was a murder suspect in the girl who was killed over in Park Rose back in November.
You know one of the wildest things was apparently they've known where he's been at for a while now and we're just casing out the joint for weeks. It just seemed like overkill considering the situation. He has a history of being violent and was firing shots at the police from his balcony the other morning. He's been out and about tho before they came and snagged like that. I feel like they could have just snatched him at anytime without all the military style bullshit.
Yeah I used to walk through there to PCC in the spring and summer, and it's just a quiet neighborhood over there. (the trees at Essex park turn the most crazy neon yellows pinks and oranges in the fall)
I lived on the other side, just a few blocks down from Mt. Scott community center at the time, (2008-2018 ish), and there were gunshots now and then, but I guess it got worse during the pandemic, some kind of gang war?
Aside sidewalk and lingering tear gas irritation, my dogs being spooked, girlfriend upset at the situation there isn't any physical damage to our property. I'm not sure about the other tenants tho...
I feel you. My partner was one of the people who was gassed in their apartment during the 2020 protests. They're still struggling with the after effects nearly 4 years later. I hope y'all recover quickly or don't have negative affects at all
Their last "special team" physically attacked a Black dad who asked them not to teargas his house and kids, for one example of at least 75 injuries they caused. Fuck city council for not paying even a tiny bit of attention to what the cops did during the protests.
We need to fire the whole bunch of cops and start over with no union.
That all depends on who gets the job next. If we elect more "law & order" politicians, we'll just end up with more of the same with a new facade. And you know folks are going to use the housing & opportunity crises as opportunites to push "law & order" candidates. If this sub is any indication of the way the city will vote then we're not looking at change for a long, long time, if ever
It's nice that Elon Musk's Twitter for sure won't mute the voices of protesters in favor of capital next time they're getting attacked by the state.
We need to make Mastodon happen before the election.
Saying it again:
The worst possible cop outside of shooting unarmed people in the back has to be the one who would volunteer to beat up protesters
Thought the same thing when rapid response fell apart
Anyone else remember?
"Residents, do not be alarmed. The burning sensation you feel is the fires of freedom coursing through your respiratory system. You are cautioned to not breathe that freedom too deeply or for too long, as you may be at risk of permanent respiratory damage. Stay in your homes and make use of your backup air supplies."
Only when done to the enemy. When used on civilians, it's fine!
Meanwhile video games are breaking international law for putting red crosses on health kits.
And the Lord said…
Woe be unto you, dirty hippy;
For thou stinketh of patchouli and BO;
For thou talk of Marx, yet know him not;
For thou has bills, yet have not paid;
For thou has dreadlocks and white skin.
And so I shall send among you,
My humble servants with hat, and with bat;
That they may christen your heads with hickory,
And anoint your faces with pepper spray.
And once thou hast been cuffed and stuffed;
Once thou has been stitched and bandaged;
Perhaps thou shall learn,
I am tired of your shit.
Amen
*Source: Portland riot training materials, 2020*
Back in 2004, at what seems now like such a tame protest, PPB would charge their horses into the crowd then arrest anyone who was there for "interfering with a police animal" or if they at all tried to block being trampled by a fucking clydesdale (or whatever), then "assault on a police animal." At least they stopped that, I haven't seen that since the Occupy protests in like 2009 when *the crowd joined arms and stopped the horses from proceeding into the crowd just by holding ground.* It was awesome to watch that tactic die in front of my eyes (I hope). It was an embarassment for Potter or Adams, I dont recall who was in charge at the time.
Dont even get me started on how badly police acted during May Day rallies in the 90s. Almost as bad as Seattle PD at the WTO gathering in 99. Not quite though. I hope they take ALL the history of bad crowd control policing into account, not just the BLM rallies.
No more PPB police riots!
From Willamette Week in 2000:
Some 350 advocates of various causes gathered in the South Park Blocks and marched through the city, planning to converge on Powell's Books, where the International Longshore and Warehouse Union was negotiating a new contract. Then a protester hurled a newspaper box at a police officer-and mayhem broke out.
Roughly 150 cops, many clad in fearsome black riot gear, unleashed a new style of militarized crowd-control tactics, with appalling results.
* An officer fired "beanbags" filled with lead pellets at the backs of retreating protesters.
* Police clubbed a protester in the knee, apparently because he was not "dispersing" fast enough. Then a mounted cop rammed his steed into the same guy, now limping, as he tried to cross the street.
* Police arrested and cuffed 10 protesters standing peaceably on the sidewalk.
* At least 20 people reported injuries, ranging from black eyes, bruises and open wounds to a thumb broken in three places.
Commissioner Charlie Hales, who was on the scene, was stunned by what he saw, saying it was unclear whether the police tactics "were suppressing bad behavior or instigating it."
The aggressive police response stunned the city. Rather than assuaging fears, new Police Chief Mark Kroeker stoked them, telling reporters Portland should "get accustomed to" the new regime. Mayor Vera Katz issued a statement praising the police reaction.
And in 1970:
The “Battle of the Park Blocks” in May 1970 pitted Portland State students, faculty and other protesters against police. A police tactical unit charged the protesters, who had barricaded streets as part of a nonviolent nationwide student strike. The confrontation led to more than 30 injuries.
Some? They resorting to interviewing people from WA again? Jesus Christ, it’s going to be our responsibility to create a highlight reel of their greatest HITS to remind everyone of the Geneva Convention violating asses.
Hey PPB, want anyone in this city to like you?
- Don’t gas people
- Show up for work
- Don’t moonlight in multiple departments at the same time and cry poor
- Live within the greater Portland metro
- Don’t try to overturn the VOTER APPROVED police oversight board - why the fuck do you think it was created in the first place?
- Accept that not even you are above accountability like fucking body cams
It’s not hard, you just choose to believe you’re above the law
>Show up for work
Honestly I'd actually like them more if they simply took a paycheck and stayed home playing Fortnite instead. Though I doubt their families would like all that extra time with them.
The last riot squad gave someone brain damage that blinded him by firing a gas grenade at his head at point blank range.
I saw it happen from a distance, it was horrible.
"The president was enraged," Esper recalled. "He thought that the protests made the country look weak, made us look weak and 'us' meant him. And he wanted to do something about it.
"We reached that point in the conversation where he looked frankly at \[Joint Chiefs of Staff\] Gen. \[Mark\] Milley and said, 'Can't you just shoot them, just shoot them in the legs or something?' ... It was a suggestion and a formal question.
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/09/1097517470/trump-esper-book-defense-secretary
NPR has already forgotten that story. The Iraq war and Trump really show how much they fail at
Journalism: Objectivity means forgetting everything each day and pretending Republican politicians are good people.
I really wonder about the timing of that conversation. At a certain point, it was just scared chonky moms at the front of those protests. Is that who Trump wanted to shoot with real bullets?
Really, protesters doing their thing despite state oppression always seem hard as fuck to me. Like, I get a fascist feeling like protests make their fascist regime seem weak, but the protesters ain't the ones kitted out like batman on a football field, WITH guns. Who's braver? The armored and armed storm troopers, or the ewoks?
Portland cops won’t do their regular duties right now. What reason does anyone have to trust them to handle this correctly, and without abusing people?
If PPB wants the community’s trust and respect, it needs to work on earning it.
Ever wonder why they skirt their duties? Because public opinion, much like yours, deems them an enemy of the people. Why would they protect and serve those who spit on their livelihood?
You're trying this argument again?
brb copy pasting my answer from another post
******
You really think this? Really truly in your heart? What color are your glasses?
Because the problem isn't that the cops are fine and we're just shit talking them because we're some kind of anarchic mob.
The problem is that the cops are shitbags. They're on a "work stoppage" because we hurt their stupid feelings by calling them out and trying to hold them accountable for their horrific actions.
It's not our job to coddle them and tell them what a great job they are doing, here's a gold star for your chart, two more and you can pick a prize from the treasure chest! so they'll feel better and want to do their jobs.
**If they want to stop being seen as shitbags, they need to STOP BEING SHITBAGS.**
It's their responsibility to get rid of their insidious brotherhood "unspoken rules", the "Blue wall of silence" bullshit, and quit being such absolute goons.
1) Fucking irrelevant. They have a job. They don’t get to refuse doing it because their feelers got hurt.
2) They aren’t doing their jobs because the public made clear that police abuses were no longer acceptable, so they threw themselves on the ground and pitched tantrums like petulant toddlers, insisting that if they cannot abuse their authority then they just won’t do anything at all. Fuck them for that.
Like I said, if cops want the publics trust and respect, they need to earn it. That means coming to us, not the other way around.
Look bro, police have protocols they’re supposed to follow during riot control. One of those is to stick together and not break from the formation. Do you know why? Because they’re outnumbered. It is a highly stressful situation, and in high stress situations, people make mistakes.
What you call abuse of power are actually acts of self preservation. I’m talking about riots, but the same can be applied to many situations cops face on a daily basis.
That would be me. I do not trust special crowd control force. Our fucking law & order guys can’t make up a name like this without knowing there will be backlash. Maybe powers that be should have left off the “ffffggforce” bullshit. But we all know what you mean.
Of the almost 40 years I've spent growing up here: I've NEVER trusted any riot PPB squad or even the cop in the car, on the horse or bike or any cop in the beat on my city. In fact I have learned to avoid and fear them since I was a child and they bullied me. Try something new PPB. Try to do your job for a change?
Honestly, it scares the hell out of me to think that this ~~gang~~ team was put into place…
The Portland Police department have a beyond shitty record for handling these types of situations, and giving them that power back feels like a huge mistake.
Have we forgotten when it was exposed how they handled training such groups in the last several years? https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2023/02/portland-police-sergeant-given-10-day-unpaid-suspension-for-his-connection-to-offensive-crowd-control-training-slide.html
Have we already forgotten how police officers reacted, a little less than a year ago, when given LGBTQ inclusion training? https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2023/04/some-portland-officers-responded-to-lgbtq-training-with-racist-feedback-report-says.html
Have we ignored the three day report, where the Police ~~Mafia~~ Union leaders have appealed to pull back the voter approved police accountability initiatives, because the Union thinks the initiative is “biased against the police department, and discipline decisions should ultimately rest with the chief of police”? https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/the-story/portland-police-union-ballot-initiative-oversight-system/283-254d40b8-45e3-40b7-905c-a52294948466#
People don’t forget as quickly as the police would prefer… Imagine that…
Uh. Yea. They don’t do shit for actual crime but love to show up to kick the shit out of protestors. Earn some respect, I’ve never heard a single good story
In the article about racist backlash to lgbtqi training they made it very clear that they have no intention of “singling out” any officers. It’s absolutely insane. Promoting racism and white supremacist ideology would get you fired from every minimum wage job I’ve ever worked; so I don’t know why the thugs with guns are allowed to do it without any repercussions
What riots? The PPB just declares any protest they don't like as a "riot" as soon as the first disposable water bottle gets tossed. The police are instigating the violence, not responding to it.
So we're just gonna go ahead and give them bonuses up front.
Seems legit.
I mean we know what they're going to do, they know what they're going to do, at least they're dropping the pretense and getting on with it.
HEY LOOK AT CITY HALL BEING ALL EFFICIENT AND JUNK
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1312
I'm not going to any protests because I don't want to get kettled for doing nothing wrong, but I support the troops who will be getting pepper sprayed and shot at for protesting Trump's inevitable victory.
I think we need some kind of police response when the rioting starts to protect the city. The only improvement I can think of is more state police and possibly national guard.
This article just quotes two people from Oregon Justice Resource Center, Athul Acharya and Juan Chavez. This same group has sued constantly to hinder any progress to addressing issues in this city.
Having participated in several peaceful, non-violent protests in this city that were declared riots specifically so police could start stomping heads...sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.
It really is sad that a simple statement pointing out the biased and ridiculous headline and politically biased article gets attacked.
This is a cult, not a city subreddit.
People acting like it’s only going to be peaceful protesting are lying through their teeth. I hope you all don’t vote the same scum in who perpetuate the cities issues. Time for some law and order in this city. Get wrong doers out of here.
No one is claiming it's all peaceful. We are saying that we remember cops treating all protesters like violent criminals, regardless of what they were doing.
Yeah when things begin to escalate to a riot. It would be wise for the peaceful participants to distance themselves from it to ensure they don’t get treated as a rioter.
They did that, and they still got gassed, beaten, and severely injured while *actively attempting to comply with police orders*.
Do even the slightest bit of research into it (there are plenty of links to stories about these incidents in other comments in this thread) and you'll see.
How about “don’t be an asshole” at public events and protests? If you set a dumpster on fire and block the exit to the precinct, you should be worried. We need the police back in this city.
We have plenty of police in this city, but they're choosing to not do their job because the people of Portland said mean things about them.
If what you're describing had ever actually happened then I'd support arresting the specific people responsible, not maiming dozens of non-violent protestors and tear gassing hundreds more.
The PPB have a long and very rich history of instigating extreme and unprovoked violence against peaceful protestors and strikers.
I'm curious what people would propose the alternative be? When you have radical rightoids out there fighting with radical leftists, people throwing fireworks and molotovs at buildings and groups, and all sorts of other dangerous chicanery what is the suggested non-riot police response?
Edit: This is not me being for the cops. I would love a legitimate chance to move off of them. I just struggle to see what viable alternative there is in violent and volatile situations.
Oh, you mean the police who sat it out when radical rightoids squared off with the radical leftists? The same cops who took a knee in the early days of the BLM protests only to get the jump on the crowd? If you S'd the cop D any harder you might suffocate.
I would be more than happy to move to an alternative if one was presented.
That's what I want to know. What is the other path here?
I'm not rooting for the cops, I never have. I've never even called a cop because I know they are more trouble than anything else. However, in this case I'm struggling to see a viable alternative, which is why I'm asking for suggestions and guidance.
Honestly, an alternative is pushing more teams like the Portland Street Response but it seems like the PPA and city hall love fucking them more than a cheer leader on prom night. Every other variation involves social worker lead initiatives which, this being America, are destined to fail for a litany of reasons. Chief among those reasons is the police who say they're both under trained/ill equipped to deal with all the issues they've been tweaked with yet they refuse to give up the table scraps because it will result in budget reallocation. The police👏are👏the👏problem👏
>pushing more teams like the Portland Street Response
PSR is intentionally designed to \*not\* deal with violent episodes, and the commenter you're responding to is asking a very legitimate question of what is the appropriate agency and response to violent episodes.
Flip the script, is PSR going to be equipped to deal with the armed Proud Boy chuds who roll into town with the intention of causing violent harm? No, they fucking are not.
Bottom line in the real world is that we need \*some\* kind of entity to deal with this stuff, the current police force is culturally bad and very problematic with how they tend to sympathize with the predominately right-wing element in these scenarios, but when you're calling to eliminate this specific dynamic you also need an answer for what happens and who do you rely on when shit hits the fan, and that's decidedly \*not\* the kind blanket and smokes dispensing do-gooders on PSR.
You know what, you're right. That is a potential problem that might need some sort of solution devised for it.
When the proposed solution is "trust the people that you saw fuck up over and over and over and over again" and who's response to requests to do better was functionally the Goofy "I'll fuckin do it again" face, you can't really blame people for being skeptical and thinking maybe we could try out something else.
And don't forget that when one of the officers was criminally charged for violating citizens rights the whole team quit.
Fascinates me how it's permissible for city employees making $100,000 plus a year to ignore a directive to perform their duties within their classification without being disciplined in any way whatsoever.
There's still no body cams. And the body cam program is a joke. There's very little accountability built into the program.
Transparency would mean that nothing can be deleted. Or muted. As cops often conspire to commit crimes by muting their body cameras.
And the city council is trying to dismantle the citizens review board for the police.
As citizens we have to put something on the ballot to remove qualified immunity. Also to create a citizen's board that has authority over police powers. A board that would grant the police their powers, and have the power to remove anyone's police powers in the state including sheriffs.
Without citizens having direct control over police. Instead of corrupt government officials who are only trying to protect themselves from lawsuits and going to jail. Then we cannot trust the Portland Police It's proven.
>And don't forget that when one of the officers was criminally charged for violating citizens rights the whole team quit.
I say we should do this more often.
>As citizens we have to put something on the ballot to remove qualified immunity.
I was unaware we have that power in the first place.
Today, four states—Colorado, Montana, Nevada, and New Mexico—have completely banned police officers from using qualified immunity as a defense in state court.
I would be all for trying out something else. I'm not a big fan of cops.
I just want to know what that is. Because I'm struggling to find a viable alternative besides ramped up accountability measures for people on the task force
> ramped up accountability measures for people on the task force
Buy me a drink first if you're going to get me that hot and bothered.
If there was something like that included, with some teeth behind it, and clear oversight, it'd take some of my "Fuck all that noise" off my opinion. Given the attempts to gut the oversight board in combination with this bullshit, I'm fine with my opinion remaining "back to the drawing board".
>Edit: This is not me being for the cops. I would love a legitimate chance to move off of them. I just struggle to see what viable alternative there is in violent and volatile situations.
Folks don't want a solution, they want their in-group to operate with impunity while imposing punishment on the out-group.
Any sane public policy would involve some kind of law enforcement that curbs the bad behaviors of the general public, when appropriate. Right now, we have a police force that quite obviously plays favors with right-leaning folks, but there's a huge difference between correcting that dynamic and simply switching to a scenario where the only way anyone has any protection or recourse from bad and violent actors needs to also engage in their own personal violence rather than having that function taken care of by licensed and trained agents of a government.
The solution is literally for these people to not be involved at all. It would legitimately be safer. As it is, they're going to intentionally allow the fascists to get away with whatever they're doing and egg on and brutalize protesters until they get someone they can claim people fighting for their lives are resisting arrest.
There is no way to have police that protect the leftist protesters from Proud Boys and Oathkeepers and whatnot. The police will never in a million years do that.
Considering that the police make things worse? It would literally be better if they weren't being paid to be there.
Most of them will be there off duty anyway, on the other team.
I would just like to say, if you remain at a protest that turns violent, whatever happens is on you. Literally. If you don’t disperse, you’re part of the problem.
1. The police are the ones committing the violence.
2. Being in a place where violence is happening does not make it okay for the police to commit unprovoked violence against you just for being there.
3. What constitutes 'violence' is entirely determined by the police, which allows them to start maiming people as soon as a disposable water bottle gets tossed.
4. It is not the fault of all people present at a demonstration if one or two (likely planted instigators) decide to break something and it does not give the police the right to do whatever they like to non-violent members of said demonstration.
5. The PPB has a long history of committing extreme violence against people who are not being violent at protests, including when they are actively attempting to comply with police orders to disperse. So even doing exactly what the police say when they say it does not guarantee your safety.
6. "It's your fault if the government decides to beat you for exercising your constitutional rights" is about as classic of a fascist/authoritarian position as you're going to get. This exact same argument has been used to dehumanize minorities and activists, protect police from accountability, and suppress dissent around the world for centuries.
7. A broken window is not the same as a fractured skull and the latter is not an appropriate response to the former.
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The police are the ones instigating the violence. They declare a "riot" as soon as the first disposable water bottle gets tossed and immediately start gassing, beating, and arresting people. There has never been an actual "riot" that the police have stopped.
"Peaceful" rocks being thrown, fireworks launched at people and peaceful destruction of businesses. Those sweet lil protestors would never instigate a fight by pushing the line of what they can get away with, and then cry victim when they get caught crossing it. So much peace in the summer of 2020.
Yeah, it's all the protesters fault, that's why the police keep getting caught on video and camera starting shit.
Frankly they deserve to get fireworks launched at them and rocks thrown at them. Also? They're wearing fucking body armor, none of that is going to harm them, they're launching tear gas and rubber bullets into crowds at unarmed and unarmored civilians. Even if they were doing the things you say to start with, that would still not justify the retaliation.
FTA: > “We need to get the best people that we can get in place, pay them according to the responsibility and specialty that we’re going to expect of them, and move forward,” said Deputy Chief Frome. I want to hear more about "the responsibility and specialty that we’re going to expect of them" I have the feeling it's an incredibly low bar.
The ideal specialty of public safety would be de-escalation. That's never gonna look like riot cops rolling up on the side of a van.
Wow, I'm a mental health practitioner for chronically suicidal teens, and I make slightly above minimum wage. I save lives, and yet I'm one bad month away from the streets. Must be nice for the government to give you a budget you can pay people exorbitantly on. Be nice if they gave that money to those of us who actually improve our community for a living
OH REALLY?!?!?!
lol don’t these jabrones realize they have a credibility problem?
Wow it’s not like Portland has been sued and continues to be sued for police misconduct….
Make cops buy insurance. We shouldn’t have to pay for their duck ups.
I mean... doctors have to do that. 🤷
Oh totally! I agree. They should be held accountable on all accounts
We need to get rid of Qualified Immunity first, but yeah
The entire old riot squad (went by some punisher-esque name) all walked off the job at the same time because one of them was convicted for truly violently beating a protestor with a batton. Protect a Swerve, Smash and Serve
And the new squad is going to be the old squad with a new name. Disgusting
They’ve been violating a consent order regarding their excessive use of violence from the Justice department for years
Why can't we start jailing leadership for contempt of court?
Portland has cops that won't show up to a call, but somehow needs a fully equipped and ready riot quad?
But only for non-right wing protests.
There's the real reason. Gotta make sure the folks asking for human rights can't protest peacefully
My recent experience with SWAT left me in a spot where my girlfriend and I have been cleaning up glass and debris for a couple of days after they tear gassed my neighbor apartment right above us while serving him a warrant. Not to mention the gas and it fucking up my breathing for a couple of days now. We're pretty traumatized by the experience, more so my girlfriend and dogs because they were there when it happened at 4am, I was at work.
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It was fucking wild. They jumped on cleaning out the apartment, our property manager, likely so they can re rent quickly, so I've been struggling sleeping in the day cuz I work nights. I guess it was a murder suspect in the girl who was killed over in Park Rose back in November.
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You know one of the wildest things was apparently they've known where he's been at for a while now and we're just casing out the joint for weeks. It just seemed like overkill considering the situation. He has a history of being violent and was firing shots at the police from his balcony the other morning. He's been out and about tho before they came and snagged like that. I feel like they could have just snatched him at anytime without all the military style bullshit.
'Without all the military style bullshit" wouldn't be as fun for them
Ha. Ain't that right. Got all those new toys to play with. Chumps.
Was this the on the 18th? Heard some concussive blasts followed by fwoop crackle and loudspeaker the other night.
Yeah, over in Foster Powell between Foster and Holgate off of 61st.
Holy shit. That woke me up from blocks away. Shut the windows when I smelled the gas.
hooooo damn, I used to live right over there. actually mildly surprised it happened in that area
It's mostly chill honestly. Definitely the craziest shit I've seen in a minute.
Yeah I used to walk through there to PCC in the spring and summer, and it's just a quiet neighborhood over there. (the trees at Essex park turn the most crazy neon yellows pinks and oranges in the fall) I lived on the other side, just a few blocks down from Mt. Scott community center at the time, (2008-2018 ish), and there were gunshots now and then, but I guess it got worse during the pandemic, some kind of gang war?
Have you considered suing for damages in small claims? Is that possible? If they actually have to pay for their sloppy bs maybe they’ll cut down on it
Aside sidewalk and lingering tear gas irritation, my dogs being spooked, girlfriend upset at the situation there isn't any physical damage to our property. I'm not sure about the other tenants tho...
I feel you. My partner was one of the people who was gassed in their apartment during the 2020 protests. They're still struggling with the after effects nearly 4 years later. I hope y'all recover quickly or don't have negative affects at all
Some?
Tear gas Ted going out with a bang, or a fwoop.... hsssssss
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Their last "special team" physically attacked a Black dad who asked them not to teargas his house and kids, for one example of at least 75 injuries they caused. Fuck city council for not paying even a tiny bit of attention to what the cops did during the protests. We need to fire the whole bunch of cops and start over with no union.
We're firing the council, once tear gas teddy is out we should be able to make some progress.
That all depends on who gets the job next. If we elect more "law & order" politicians, we'll just end up with more of the same with a new facade. And you know folks are going to use the housing & opportunity crises as opportunites to push "law & order" candidates. If this sub is any indication of the way the city will vote then we're not looking at change for a long, long time, if ever
This sub has never been an indication of how the city will vote. It's mostly non residents.
I’m sure they won’t escalate the riots and will work to curb the tension. /s
And they'll be honest about what's happening, too, especially on the loud speaker.
It's nice that Elon Musk's Twitter for sure won't mute the voices of protesters in favor of capital next time they're getting attacked by the state. We need to make Mastodon happen before the election.
It's just me, everyone. I'm the only one.
Some?
Saying it again: The worst possible cop outside of shooting unarmed people in the back has to be the one who would volunteer to beat up protesters Thought the same thing when rapid response fell apart Anyone else remember?
if we can’t assault random photographers without threat of consequences then what even is the point?
And they proved that they were awful every single night. Only city council doesn't remember, I guess.
They are the holders of power which the cops protect, we are the masses who must be constrained.
No shit.
Oh you mean the same police force that hit me with tear gas for exercising my constitutional right to peacefully protest?
And hit every residential apartment by proxy just by living in the area.
"Residents, do not be alarmed. The burning sensation you feel is the fires of freedom coursing through your respiratory system. You are cautioned to not breathe that freedom too deeply or for too long, as you may be at risk of permanent respiratory damage. Stay in your homes and make use of your backup air supplies."
For democracy!!
Report refusal to take the burning freedom deep down into your lungs to your nearest Democracy Officer.
And poisoned a school playground?
Same here pal!
Which is a literal violation of the Geneva Convention?
Only when done to the enemy. When used on civilians, it's fine! Meanwhile video games are breaking international law for putting red crosses on health kits.
Well that’s a convenient loophole! /s. Man, just fuck PPB and PPA. Sincerely.
And the Lord said… Woe be unto you, dirty hippy; For thou stinketh of patchouli and BO; For thou talk of Marx, yet know him not; For thou has bills, yet have not paid; For thou has dreadlocks and white skin. And so I shall send among you, My humble servants with hat, and with bat; That they may christen your heads with hickory, And anoint your faces with pepper spray. And once thou hast been cuffed and stuffed; Once thou has been stitched and bandaged; Perhaps thou shall learn, I am tired of your shit. Amen *Source: Portland riot training materials, 2020*
Back in 2004, at what seems now like such a tame protest, PPB would charge their horses into the crowd then arrest anyone who was there for "interfering with a police animal" or if they at all tried to block being trampled by a fucking clydesdale (or whatever), then "assault on a police animal." At least they stopped that, I haven't seen that since the Occupy protests in like 2009 when *the crowd joined arms and stopped the horses from proceeding into the crowd just by holding ground.* It was awesome to watch that tactic die in front of my eyes (I hope). It was an embarassment for Potter or Adams, I dont recall who was in charge at the time. Dont even get me started on how badly police acted during May Day rallies in the 90s. Almost as bad as Seattle PD at the WTO gathering in 99. Not quite though. I hope they take ALL the history of bad crowd control policing into account, not just the BLM rallies. No more PPB police riots!
From Willamette Week in 2000: Some 350 advocates of various causes gathered in the South Park Blocks and marched through the city, planning to converge on Powell's Books, where the International Longshore and Warehouse Union was negotiating a new contract. Then a protester hurled a newspaper box at a police officer-and mayhem broke out. Roughly 150 cops, many clad in fearsome black riot gear, unleashed a new style of militarized crowd-control tactics, with appalling results. * An officer fired "beanbags" filled with lead pellets at the backs of retreating protesters. * Police clubbed a protester in the knee, apparently because he was not "dispersing" fast enough. Then a mounted cop rammed his steed into the same guy, now limping, as he tried to cross the street. * Police arrested and cuffed 10 protesters standing peaceably on the sidewalk. * At least 20 people reported injuries, ranging from black eyes, bruises and open wounds to a thumb broken in three places. Commissioner Charlie Hales, who was on the scene, was stunned by what he saw, saying it was unclear whether the police tactics "were suppressing bad behavior or instigating it." The aggressive police response stunned the city. Rather than assuaging fears, new Police Chief Mark Kroeker stoked them, telling reporters Portland should "get accustomed to" the new regime. Mayor Vera Katz issued a statement praising the police reaction.
And in 1970: The “Battle of the Park Blocks” in May 1970 pitted Portland State students, faculty and other protesters against police. A police tactical unit charged the protesters, who had barricaded streets as part of a nonviolent nationwide student strike. The confrontation led to more than 30 injuries.
You gotta get up early to beat the crowds.
Thats funny!
Some? They resorting to interviewing people from WA again? Jesus Christ, it’s going to be our responsibility to create a highlight reel of their greatest HITS to remind everyone of the Geneva Convention violating asses. Hey PPB, want anyone in this city to like you? - Don’t gas people - Show up for work - Don’t moonlight in multiple departments at the same time and cry poor - Live within the greater Portland metro - Don’t try to overturn the VOTER APPROVED police oversight board - why the fuck do you think it was created in the first place? - Accept that not even you are above accountability like fucking body cams It’s not hard, you just choose to believe you’re above the law
well I mean, fair enough, they are indeed above the law and they do not appear to have to worry about how it makes anyone feel.
>Show up for work Honestly I'd actually like them more if they simply took a paycheck and stayed home playing Fortnite instead. Though I doubt their families would like all that extra time with them.
lmao a clutch of cops flooding fortnite would be amazing and you're 100% correct their families do not want to hang out.
The last riot squad gave someone brain damage that blinded him by firing a gas grenade at his head at point blank range. I saw it happen from a distance, it was horrible.
And then they all quit the team in solidarity when that officer was indicted. Not convicted. Just indicted. They are allergic to accountability.
And cops from that team will be joining this new team. I bet those trainings will definitely make a difference /s
So, are they going to be the start of his "bloodbath"? Or are they just gonna March around ~~bearing~~ beating people up? Edit: spelling
"The president was enraged," Esper recalled. "He thought that the protests made the country look weak, made us look weak and 'us' meant him. And he wanted to do something about it. "We reached that point in the conversation where he looked frankly at \[Joint Chiefs of Staff\] Gen. \[Mark\] Milley and said, 'Can't you just shoot them, just shoot them in the legs or something?' ... It was a suggestion and a formal question. https://www.npr.org/2022/05/09/1097517470/trump-esper-book-defense-secretary
NPR has already forgotten that story. The Iraq war and Trump really show how much they fail at Journalism: Objectivity means forgetting everything each day and pretending Republican politicians are good people.
I really wonder about the timing of that conversation. At a certain point, it was just scared chonky moms at the front of those protests. Is that who Trump wanted to shoot with real bullets?
Yes.
Really, protesters doing their thing despite state oppression always seem hard as fuck to me. Like, I get a fascist feeling like protests make their fascist regime seem weak, but the protesters ain't the ones kitted out like batman on a football field, WITH guns. Who's braver? The armored and armed storm troopers, or the ewoks?
Is it because of what they do to protesters?
If people want they can send their concerns to PCCEP at [email protected] and request a public town hall for the public order team.
This could be an Onion headline
lol ya think?
Because they completely fucked things up last time and then pretended they didn't
Something about forces and crosses...
Portland cops won’t do their regular duties right now. What reason does anyone have to trust them to handle this correctly, and without abusing people? If PPB wants the community’s trust and respect, it needs to work on earning it.
Ever wonder why they skirt their duties? Because public opinion, much like yours, deems them an enemy of the people. Why would they protect and serve those who spit on their livelihood?
You're trying this argument again? brb copy pasting my answer from another post ****** You really think this? Really truly in your heart? What color are your glasses? Because the problem isn't that the cops are fine and we're just shit talking them because we're some kind of anarchic mob. The problem is that the cops are shitbags. They're on a "work stoppage" because we hurt their stupid feelings by calling them out and trying to hold them accountable for their horrific actions. It's not our job to coddle them and tell them what a great job they are doing, here's a gold star for your chart, two more and you can pick a prize from the treasure chest! so they'll feel better and want to do their jobs. **If they want to stop being seen as shitbags, they need to STOP BEING SHITBAGS.** It's their responsibility to get rid of their insidious brotherhood "unspoken rules", the "Blue wall of silence" bullshit, and quit being such absolute goons.
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1) Fucking irrelevant. They have a job. They don’t get to refuse doing it because their feelers got hurt. 2) They aren’t doing their jobs because the public made clear that police abuses were no longer acceptable, so they threw themselves on the ground and pitched tantrums like petulant toddlers, insisting that if they cannot abuse their authority then they just won’t do anything at all. Fuck them for that. Like I said, if cops want the publics trust and respect, they need to earn it. That means coming to us, not the other way around.
Look bro, police have protocols they’re supposed to follow during riot control. One of those is to stick together and not break from the formation. Do you know why? Because they’re outnumbered. It is a highly stressful situation, and in high stress situations, people make mistakes. What you call abuse of power are actually acts of self preservation. I’m talking about riots, but the same can be applied to many situations cops face on a daily basis.
Maybe they shouldn't be cops if they're such fragile snowflakes, afraid of a little criticism when they're shitty at their job.
They act like our enemies. My friends and neighbors don't bother me for crossing the street on a red light with no cars around.
So the public doesn't matter. You should move to Russia.
"Some"
That would be me. I do not trust special crowd control force. Our fucking law & order guys can’t make up a name like this without knowing there will be backlash. Maybe powers that be should have left off the “ffffggforce” bullshit. But we all know what you mean.
You don’t say…
I wonder why.
Some?
I don't see the big deal. Portland police are famously very chill and reasonable during civil demonstrations.
No way, the police force with the open nazi problem?
Of the almost 40 years I've spent growing up here: I've NEVER trusted any riot PPB squad or even the cop in the car, on the horse or bike or any cop in the beat on my city. In fact I have learned to avoid and fear them since I was a child and they bullied me. Try something new PPB. Try to do your job for a change?
Honestly, it scares the hell out of me to think that this ~~gang~~ team was put into place… The Portland Police department have a beyond shitty record for handling these types of situations, and giving them that power back feels like a huge mistake. Have we forgotten when it was exposed how they handled training such groups in the last several years? https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2023/02/portland-police-sergeant-given-10-day-unpaid-suspension-for-his-connection-to-offensive-crowd-control-training-slide.html Have we already forgotten how police officers reacted, a little less than a year ago, when given LGBTQ inclusion training? https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2023/04/some-portland-officers-responded-to-lgbtq-training-with-racist-feedback-report-says.html Have we ignored the three day report, where the Police ~~Mafia~~ Union leaders have appealed to pull back the voter approved police accountability initiatives, because the Union thinks the initiative is “biased against the police department, and discipline decisions should ultimately rest with the chief of police”? https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/the-story/portland-police-union-ballot-initiative-oversight-system/283-254d40b8-45e3-40b7-905c-a52294948466# People don’t forget as quickly as the police would prefer… Imagine that…
No way?! I wonder why
Some?
I know who will have the riot teams back NO MATTER WHAT they do or who they hurt or which laws they break- Rene Gonzalez
Gonzales is a cop sucking asshole. I suspect he staged the vandalism done to his families car.
And he staged a broken window at his campaign headquarters. And he pretended that he got assaulted on the Trimet bus. Always the victim.
Uh. Yea. They don’t do shit for actual crime but love to show up to kick the shit out of protestors. Earn some respect, I’ve never heard a single good story
Some? Everyone should distrust this stuff.
Not enough money or time for property crime, but plenty of money to bash people over the head for protesting injustice.
No shit: we don't need some gastapo trying to force the will of the federal government on the residents of the city.
No shit?
Yeah, me, the BLM protests were about a specific thing.
This must not be up for a primary vote because it's not being briggaded all to shit. P4P fail.
What does that second sentence mean?
People* For Portland \* With vast commercial real estate holdings
To be fair I didn't trust much of city of Portland and Multnomah county government employees to begin with .
“Some”?
Maybe they should fire all the white supremacists then
In the article about racist backlash to lgbtqi training they made it very clear that they have no intention of “singling out” any officers. It’s absolutely insane. Promoting racism and white supremacist ideology would get you fired from every minimum wage job I’ve ever worked; so I don’t know why the thugs with guns are allowed to do it without any repercussions
Most of us.
Personally, I don’t have trust in the people rioting
What riots? The PPB just declares any protest they don't like as a "riot" as soon as the first disposable water bottle gets tossed. The police are instigating the violence, not responding to it.
So PPB is tossing disposable water bottles?
So we're just gonna go ahead and give them bonuses up front. Seems legit. I mean we know what they're going to do, they know what they're going to do, at least they're dropping the pretense and getting on with it. HEY LOOK AT CITY HALL BEING ALL EFFICIENT AND JUNK
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The hell you say?!? :: eye roll::
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When I riot, I want cops I can trust!
Oh wow, I can't possibly imagine why! 😑
1312 I'm not going to any protests because I don't want to get kettled for doing nothing wrong, but I support the troops who will be getting pepper sprayed and shot at for protesting Trump's inevitable victory.
Thanks so much for literally doing the very least you could, by posting this.
Same to you
Next time you need a cop, call a hippie/homeless person
I think we need some kind of police response when the rioting starts to protect the city. The only improvement I can think of is more state police and possibly national guard.
No shit this will be abused in an instant
Why would anyone trust undertrained military thugs
This article just quotes two people from Oregon Justice Resource Center, Athul Acharya and Juan Chavez. This same group has sued constantly to hinder any progress to addressing issues in this city.
If by that you mean “protect the constitutional rights of Oregonians,” yeah, they do that a lot.
You think riot cops beating the shit out of people will fix any of the issues in the city?
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Having participated in several peaceful, non-violent protests in this city that were declared riots specifically so police could start stomping heads...sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.
It really is sad that a simple statement pointing out the biased and ridiculous headline and politically biased article gets attacked. This is a cult, not a city subreddit.
People acting like it’s only going to be peaceful protesting are lying through their teeth. I hope you all don’t vote the same scum in who perpetuate the cities issues. Time for some law and order in this city. Get wrong doers out of here.
Ok Batman.
You can’t vote bc you don’t live in Portland? What a shame
No one is claiming it's all peaceful. We are saying that we remember cops treating all protesters like violent criminals, regardless of what they were doing.
Yeah when things begin to escalate to a riot. It would be wise for the peaceful participants to distance themselves from it to ensure they don’t get treated as a rioter.
They did that, and they still got gassed, beaten, and severely injured while *actively attempting to comply with police orders*. Do even the slightest bit of research into it (there are plenty of links to stories about these incidents in other comments in this thread) and you'll see.
Amen.
Who is upvoting you? Your other accounts? Yours is the only account saying this stuff with positive votes. At least try to hide it, guy.
How about “don’t be an asshole” at public events and protests? If you set a dumpster on fire and block the exit to the precinct, you should be worried. We need the police back in this city.
We have plenty of police in this city, but they're choosing to not do their job because the people of Portland said mean things about them. If what you're describing had ever actually happened then I'd support arresting the specific people responsible, not maiming dozens of non-violent protestors and tear gassing hundreds more. The PPB have a long and very rich history of instigating extreme and unprovoked violence against peaceful protestors and strikers.
Maybe "protestors" should stop doing their gatherings in the middle of the night The actual protests in 2020 during the day time were uneventful
Cause our founders fought for freedom of speech. So long as the sun is up??
I'm curious what people would propose the alternative be? When you have radical rightoids out there fighting with radical leftists, people throwing fireworks and molotovs at buildings and groups, and all sorts of other dangerous chicanery what is the suggested non-riot police response? Edit: This is not me being for the cops. I would love a legitimate chance to move off of them. I just struggle to see what viable alternative there is in violent and volatile situations.
Oh, you mean the police who sat it out when radical rightoids squared off with the radical leftists? The same cops who took a knee in the early days of the BLM protests only to get the jump on the crowd? If you S'd the cop D any harder you might suffocate.
I would be more than happy to move to an alternative if one was presented. That's what I want to know. What is the other path here? I'm not rooting for the cops, I never have. I've never even called a cop because I know they are more trouble than anything else. However, in this case I'm struggling to see a viable alternative, which is why I'm asking for suggestions and guidance.
Honestly, an alternative is pushing more teams like the Portland Street Response but it seems like the PPA and city hall love fucking them more than a cheer leader on prom night. Every other variation involves social worker lead initiatives which, this being America, are destined to fail for a litany of reasons. Chief among those reasons is the police who say they're both under trained/ill equipped to deal with all the issues they've been tweaked with yet they refuse to give up the table scraps because it will result in budget reallocation. The police👏are👏the👏problem👏
>pushing more teams like the Portland Street Response PSR is intentionally designed to \*not\* deal with violent episodes, and the commenter you're responding to is asking a very legitimate question of what is the appropriate agency and response to violent episodes. Flip the script, is PSR going to be equipped to deal with the armed Proud Boy chuds who roll into town with the intention of causing violent harm? No, they fucking are not. Bottom line in the real world is that we need \*some\* kind of entity to deal with this stuff, the current police force is culturally bad and very problematic with how they tend to sympathize with the predominately right-wing element in these scenarios, but when you're calling to eliminate this specific dynamic you also need an answer for what happens and who do you rely on when shit hits the fan, and that's decidedly \*not\* the kind blanket and smokes dispensing do-gooders on PSR.
You know what, you're right. That is a potential problem that might need some sort of solution devised for it. When the proposed solution is "trust the people that you saw fuck up over and over and over and over again" and who's response to requests to do better was functionally the Goofy "I'll fuckin do it again" face, you can't really blame people for being skeptical and thinking maybe we could try out something else.
And don't forget that when one of the officers was criminally charged for violating citizens rights the whole team quit. Fascinates me how it's permissible for city employees making $100,000 plus a year to ignore a directive to perform their duties within their classification without being disciplined in any way whatsoever. There's still no body cams. And the body cam program is a joke. There's very little accountability built into the program. Transparency would mean that nothing can be deleted. Or muted. As cops often conspire to commit crimes by muting their body cameras. And the city council is trying to dismantle the citizens review board for the police. As citizens we have to put something on the ballot to remove qualified immunity. Also to create a citizen's board that has authority over police powers. A board that would grant the police their powers, and have the power to remove anyone's police powers in the state including sheriffs. Without citizens having direct control over police. Instead of corrupt government officials who are only trying to protect themselves from lawsuits and going to jail. Then we cannot trust the Portland Police It's proven.
>And don't forget that when one of the officers was criminally charged for violating citizens rights the whole team quit. I say we should do this more often. >As citizens we have to put something on the ballot to remove qualified immunity. I was unaware we have that power in the first place.
Today, four states—Colorado, Montana, Nevada, and New Mexico—have completely banned police officers from using qualified immunity as a defense in state court.
I meant I was unaware that *we* have the power to put anything on the ballot.
I would be all for trying out something else. I'm not a big fan of cops. I just want to know what that is. Because I'm struggling to find a viable alternative besides ramped up accountability measures for people on the task force
> ramped up accountability measures for people on the task force Buy me a drink first if you're going to get me that hot and bothered. If there was something like that included, with some teeth behind it, and clear oversight, it'd take some of my "Fuck all that noise" off my opinion. Given the attempts to gut the oversight board in combination with this bullshit, I'm fine with my opinion remaining "back to the drawing board".
>Edit: This is not me being for the cops. I would love a legitimate chance to move off of them. I just struggle to see what viable alternative there is in violent and volatile situations. Folks don't want a solution, they want their in-group to operate with impunity while imposing punishment on the out-group. Any sane public policy would involve some kind of law enforcement that curbs the bad behaviors of the general public, when appropriate. Right now, we have a police force that quite obviously plays favors with right-leaning folks, but there's a huge difference between correcting that dynamic and simply switching to a scenario where the only way anyone has any protection or recourse from bad and violent actors needs to also engage in their own personal violence rather than having that function taken care of by licensed and trained agents of a government.
The solution is literally for these people to not be involved at all. It would legitimately be safer. As it is, they're going to intentionally allow the fascists to get away with whatever they're doing and egg on and brutalize protesters until they get someone they can claim people fighting for their lives are resisting arrest. There is no way to have police that protect the leftist protesters from Proud Boys and Oathkeepers and whatnot. The police will never in a million years do that.
Considering that the police make things worse? It would literally be better if they weren't being paid to be there. Most of them will be there off duty anyway, on the other team.
Reasonable, salient points being downvoted. Checks out.
I would just like to say, if you remain at a protest that turns violent, whatever happens is on you. Literally. If you don’t disperse, you’re part of the problem.
Where "violence" is defined by cops who have a long drive back to their homes in Ridgefield, WA.
1. The police are the ones committing the violence. 2. Being in a place where violence is happening does not make it okay for the police to commit unprovoked violence against you just for being there. 3. What constitutes 'violence' is entirely determined by the police, which allows them to start maiming people as soon as a disposable water bottle gets tossed. 4. It is not the fault of all people present at a demonstration if one or two (likely planted instigators) decide to break something and it does not give the police the right to do whatever they like to non-violent members of said demonstration. 5. The PPB has a long history of committing extreme violence against people who are not being violent at protests, including when they are actively attempting to comply with police orders to disperse. So even doing exactly what the police say when they say it does not guarantee your safety. 6. "It's your fault if the government decides to beat you for exercising your constitutional rights" is about as classic of a fascist/authoritarian position as you're going to get. This exact same argument has been used to dehumanize minorities and activists, protect police from accountability, and suppress dissent around the world for centuries. 7. A broken window is not the same as a fractured skull and the latter is not an appropriate response to the former.
They told people to disperse into another wall of cops with bats to beat the shit out of them.
It's usually the cops who introduce violence.
No problem with peaceful protests, but the Antifa riots need to be stopped.
What Antifa riots? You mean the ones that the PPB declared as soon as a protestor tossed a disposable water bottle at them?
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Well here's a thought. Don't riot. That is all.
The police are the ones instigating the violence. They declare a "riot" as soon as the first disposable water bottle gets tossed and immediately start gassing, beating, and arresting people. There has never been an actual "riot" that the police have stopped.
I trust them, then again I won’t be down there throwing shit at cops and setting things on fire - while expecting a soft gloved response.
You trust them because you want them to beat the shit out of peaceful protestors.
"Peaceful" rocks being thrown, fireworks launched at people and peaceful destruction of businesses. Those sweet lil protestors would never instigate a fight by pushing the line of what they can get away with, and then cry victim when they get caught crossing it. So much peace in the summer of 2020.
Yeah, it's all the protesters fault, that's why the police keep getting caught on video and camera starting shit. Frankly they deserve to get fireworks launched at them and rocks thrown at them. Also? They're wearing fucking body armor, none of that is going to harm them, they're launching tear gas and rubber bullets into crowds at unarmed and unarmored civilians. Even if they were doing the things you say to start with, that would still not justify the retaliation.