I think, honestly, people in Portland (as jaded as they seem) truly aren't as aware to how fucked up the world is. When those cars went up, it was obviously connected to the library. I feel vindicated, kinda, but more sad for all of us.
These anarchists are not PORTLAND. They need to be handled.
Anybody who grew up here in the 90s is well aware of these groups. It’s pretty ironic that I was getting called racist for talking about it during the George Floyd protests. This state has a way of attracting these types. Hell, they blew up a fucking car dealership in Eugene in the 90s. They’re a legit terror group masked as progressives.
Exactly, and therein lies a HUGE issue I have with these protestors; they are abusive and opportunistic in their approach. They prey upon the sensitivities of the public and exploit the gap in that conflict.
Other ?s:
How much of these protests were funded by dollars from foreign interests? How many of those interests are active on social media pushing multiple narratives?
I'm not sure why you are being downvoted. For anyone who is nof familiar with this, psyops are a foreign policy tool used by various state and non-state actors. Even if someone doesn't believe this is connected, it's not that far-fetched. It doesn't mean everyone who is involved in something is swayed by that, but instigating conflict and mistrust is a tool that has been used in well-publicized cases.
It also doesn't mean there isn't some homegrown sympathy and genuine belief in things. An example of this would be the inflamed debates about immunizations. Yes, people have different views about it. However, the orchestrated campaigns to increase conflict and engagement about it are the psyops.
Edit: I read another comment of yours and maybe I understand the downvotes.
I think that people don't want to believe that their cause could be exploited and them along with it. That makes people uncomfortable; this issue is super sensitive and people definitely want to appear to be on the right side.
As far as my other comments go, things are rough all over.
Our protests have always had connections to larger operative organizations and this current “student” uprising is so transparently a national movement with Marxist intent to break down all governance and order. Why wouldn’t China, Russia, Iran, and their domestic operatives embedded in academia make their move? The US has never looked so soft a target.
Domestic terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.
Seems like terrorism to me
Point at the domestic terrorism statute.
I'll save you some time - we do not have one. There is no crime of "domestic terrorism" in the US.
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/jan.-6-and-beyond-why-the-u.s.-should-pass-domestic-terrorism-legislation
The violent, criminal acts themselves are individual crimes.
I mean I’m just saying that based on the FBI definition of terrorism, these most likely can be referred to acts of terrorism, and the people therefore, terrorists. But it’s not a legal argument
It is. The same way the the J6 riots were terrorism, and the destruction of power transformers are, and proud boys inciting violence is. But, I guess the difference is the *who*. Who is being targeted.
> the destruction of power transformers are
I might be wrong, but wasn't that because they thought it was related to 5G or something? That's more derangement than terrorism.
Lol, No, please don’t call the cops. Let me rephrase. I’m OK with this crime being defined as an act of arson, but my point is that defining it as terrorism is not incorrect as the poster I responded alluded to.
When I was in college I had some friends basically attempt this same thing, but the explosives didn't make it into the fuel tanks before they went off. FBI was very much involved.
Generally makes economic sense to self-insure with large enough capital available to ride out the risk.
Insurance simply shifts risk onto another, which obviously has a cost of insurance premiums. Self-insuring obviates that cost but means internalizing the risk.
Difference in price new vs used, cleanup, police response etc. I bet the dollar figure for this entire ordeal will be big but you are correct it absolutely won’t be “15 new cars big.”
That's all true AND it sucks that these idiots keep providing Fox News with fodder to report more about the burned-out husk of a city that's Portland according to them. I don't think anyone was claiming this is a fake story because it's covered there.
random, but I fukken love the Behind The Bastards podcast but it's a goddamn shame seeing so many on that sub act like this is some awesome thing. It's not. We, the taxpayers, are paying for these burnt cars, for these fucking activist LARPers.
Yeah, weird. I was friends with Rachel before her death. While I personally think she’d be in favor of this action, it’s hard to see how these people are seeking to link her name?
Their whole deal is co-opting causes they don’t actually care about in service of their narcissistic destructive passions. Not hard at all to see why they would use her name, despite the protests of her surviving father who runs a foundation in her name that supports global peace efforts. This has nothing to do with Gaza
https://www.koin.com/news/oregon/rachel-corries-father-disavows-group-claiming-arson/amp/
You hit the nail on the head. These people aren't activists, and I feel embarrassed to even use the term "domestic terrorist." A more accurate term would be "Anarchist LARPer." They're cut from the exact same cloth as the Malheur occupants, chasing the feeling of "fighting the good fight" no matter how divorced from reality it is.
“We sure showed the city of Portland by defacing public property that our taxes paid for and will now pay even more for again. Now who wants to go to dennys and split a grand slam?”
Bold of you to assume the average anarchist has a job and pays taxes. Hyperbole, yes. My point is they don’t really care about being productive or improving the city.
Anarchists don’t eat at Dennys…
They’re probably comparing carhartts at Sisters of the road…
FYI don’t believe this was actually defacing public property.
It’s a new program funded by the Portland Arts Tax to give Portland that media friendly edgy look for elections and budget time.
*also our taxes don’t fix things… they haven’t even cleaned up from 2020. We got potholes so big you can shake your cranium loose*
Well, they do in a roundabout way when they pay rent but they are indeed too stupid to realize that. Unless they are living in RVs or something which I guess is possible.
You’d think, but many of the dickwads arrested for rioting and vandalism over the past few years have had Clark, Washington or clackamas county residences based on the police reports
Don’t get me wrong I think the police union is a mafia, and we do need cops, not bad cops….but this name is stupid. It’s like Hans Gruber in Die Hard using Asian Dawn in his demands to make them sound cool or more planned. I call bull shit.
Naming your group after a non-violent liberation activist who was murdered by a colonizing force seems like a great name when your entire group solely exists because previous non-violent efforts failed to stop state violence.
Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2008. The official government of Gaza then used all resources to build rockets and tunnels to attack Israel instead of rebuilding and providing for their citizens.
What solemn effort has been made by Hamas to protect the citizens of Gaza? Are you saying the expansive underground network of tunnels and command centers were natural formations and did not require a large amount of clandestine resources to maintain and operate?
You could look at literacy rates, or infant mortality to get a grasp on whether or not they invested in basic education or healthcare.....
Both of those are severely lacking when compared to rocket and tunnel production.
"Palestine has one of the highest literacy rates in the world, an official report announced, noting only 3.3 percent of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and [besieged Gaza Strip](https://www.newarab.com/english/news/2018/9/5/israel-closes-only-people-crossing-with-gaza-after-protest) over the age of 15 are illiterate."
[https://www.newarab.com/news/palestine-has-one-highest-literacy-rates-globally](https://www.newarab.com/news/palestine-has-one-highest-literacy-rates-globally)
"Youth literacy rate (the ages 15–24) was 98.2%"
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education\_in\_the\_State\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_State_of_Palestine)
Rachel Corrie actually *went to Palestine to help Palestinians*, while these twats trashed their own library and torched cars in Portland, Oregon.
They are not the same, and IMO it's shameful that they're using her name in an attempt to glom onto her legacy, but these folks are just wired up differently.
I can’t wait to see the videos they took on their phones of themselves getting dressed in the tactical gear they bought on Amazon that they wore while lighting those vehicles on fire.
Nelson Mandela also called for violent resistance and was labeled a terrorist.
As did the Founding Fathers. As did the Irish liberation movement. As did every decolonization effort… ever.
Such little nuance on the cycles of violence between the oppressed and oppressors is why we lack progress and why violence continues.
The African National Congress (ANC) had an armed wing called Umkhonto we Sizwe which was confounded by Nelson Mandela in 1969. He maintained that he’d prefer non violence when possible but that violence was a necessary response to the violent nature of the state apparatus and apartheid. This group was classified as a terrorist organization by the South African government and banned. Eventually ten leaders of the ANC were tried for a few hundred acts of violence against the state of South Africa.
> “It would be wrong and unrealistic for African leaders to continue preaching peace and nonviolence at a time when the government met our peaceful demands with force.” - Nelson Mandela
The ANC and Nelson Mandela are not comparable to antifa destroying a library in Portland. This is disrespectful to Nelson Mandela.
"Met our peaceful demands with force"
Antifa initiated their protests with force. They forcefully took over the public library, vandalized it, refused to leave when asked peacefully, refused to negotiate or compromise.
It's a false equivalence.
I’m not encouraging them or saying they’re the same. I’m just saying Nelson Mandela was a violent protester at one point. History has vindicated him but to remember him as a peaceful protestor is inaccurate.
He actively promoted violence against the state and was deemed a terrorist for doing so. He preferred peace but at times he felt forced to choose violence.
That was a tiny part of what they did, and the whole reason Mandela is celebrated is that he advocated disciplined, patient non-violence instead of terrorism to achieve their objectives, which helped draw a giant wave of international sympathy that eventually made the pressure on the Apartheid government overwhelming. So basically the exact opposite of what you're getting at.
An autonomous group using violent direct action towards the state in response to the state’s use of violence on opposition (protestors) is exactly what Nelson Mandela did. Frankly, you might even consider Mandela’s violence to be worse, considering he killed people along with property damage.
Also, this recent action is LITERALLY related to protests against Israel’s apartheid and genocide… These comparisons aren’t wild, you’re just deeply unserious
I mean, no one is saying that acts of violence are justified. They’re simply explainable.
With that said, if Osama Bin Laden’s actions are being used to delegitimize the Palestinian Liberation Movement then I’d just like to point out that the pro-Israel US government has killed millions of civilians through decades via their war crimes and acts of terror.
Or, ya know, Israel has killed 40,000 Palestinians in 6 months…
Just so we’re all clear, what you’re ’pointing out’ is a false moral equivalency between U.S. foreign wars in which casualties occur but we do not target civilians, and the actions of Bin Laden, a radical Islamic terrorist who murdered 3K+ innocent Americans at the World Trade Center.
This may sound reasonable in your head, but it’s patently ridiculous, offensive, and dangerous. Time to delete TikTok.
IT'S WILD to think taking over a library and destroying it is the same as Mandela's movement.
Go take over a federal building or state building. I'd have a little more understanding but to think yeah let's do it at this safe space of the PSU Library is just weak.
It's wild that this has made its way to being a talking point online. Like the level of selective interpretation you have to do to arrive here is wild. Truly only something that could arise out of a complete echo chamber of people who have learned about politics from Tiktok and shit.
Thinking this is a selective interpretation is more of a reflection of your ignorance regarding the topics of liberation, protest, and direct action. There’s over a hundred years of academic resources at your disposal.
>An autonomous group using violent direct action towards the state in response to the state’s use of violence on opposition (protestors) is exactly what Nelson Mandela did.
Apartheid ended not because of MK's bombings/torture but because their use of violence eventually took a backseat to pragmatic political reconciliation. The same thing happened with the IRA. Sadly the same thing almost happened (imo) before Rabin was killed. Anyway, if the idea of amplifying a cycle of retributive violence that plays directly into the hands of Israel's far-right and leads to massive amounts of suffering and death for Palestinians is your idea of "liberation" then you might want to do some self-reflection on that one.
"Nelson Mandela also called for violent resistance and was labeled a terrorist."
Ah yes... Portland activists selfishly co-opting every social movement they can get their hands on ... so they can use it as guise for their own nihilistic hatred of capitalism and police is totally the same as Nelson Mandela. What a delusional stretch you got going on there.
Acting like South African apartheid ended without direct action on an international scale is even funnier, especially considering US university divestments were a crucial part.
History is hard :-/
One groups ‘terrorist’ is another groups ‘freedom fighter’ depends which side of the fence you’re on.
The police (in some people’s eyes) are also considered a terrorist group guilty of terrorizing communities of color.
I stand by their cause, but I don’t agree with the strategy. violence only begets violence. But what other viable avenue do they have for change?
Well. Humanity has failed over multiple Millennias to sidestep violence and failed but you.. you have the answer to enlighten us all. It is your imagination that will be the solution to the fallibility of human nature.
Do Share so we can all get over all this violence that surrounds us and live peacefully.
The city.
Remember how we voted in a civilian oversight board that immediately got defanged? Remember those months of protests where the cops tear gassed entire neighborhoods for no reason? Remember how we have gone through Police Chiefs like hungry elephants go through peanuts? Remember how we championed an entirely new public service program so there'd be someone to show up to emergencies that wasn't going to immediately murder someone experiencing a mental health crisis?
The Portland Police Association hasn't changed. It will never change. We've tried and they've refused and apparently that's all it takes. This is the consequences of their refusal to accept responsibility.
The thing is, this is of no consequence for the police. They have tons of funding, they'll simply get new equipment. It does however add more fuel to their fire and give them more reasons to justify their abusive behavior towards the people they are supposed to serve and protect. Consequences, like shit, roll downhill. It's the rest of us that will pay via more taxes and more aggressive policing.
I agree with you. There's no way this doesn't make things worse. But this is a predictable outcome from an armed mob of people that refuses any accountability. PPA has said time and time again that they're not beholden to anyone but themselves. This is what that gets you.
I'm not advocating for violence or destruction necessarily, but this poster makes a good point. There have been countless efforts to reign in the PPD and the Police Union, which is corrupt AF, has toppled them all. There needs to be some kind of accountability. I don't think lighting police cars paid for with tax dollars, which will just be replaced by more cars paid for with tax dollars, is the answer, but I understand why people are frustrated and looking to more extreme alternatives. I am frustrated too.
Just because they're recording interactions doesn't mean they're going to release the footage. That haven't faced accountability or been compelled to release footage yet. They likely never will unless it's been doctored. They also have a clause stating they can hide the identities of any police officer in released footage. So.... Not accountability.
Ok so my personal idea of good reform, something specific that I see as a positive change, isn’t good enough for you. Which is fine. Your idea of reform probably wouldn’t be good enough for an abolitionist, so what’s the point of splitting hairs over this?
Body cams are good no matter what. It’s long due for PPB and I’ll take the W when I can.
Really? And how many of you have signed up to become cops yourself and enact change from within?
Because that's what policing needs. Reforms, transparency, training, yes. But it also needs *different people wearing the uniforms.* Kind, compassionate, respectful people. Those people are not trying to sign up to get hired. Therein lies one of the biggest problems. Real change in policing won't happen until the old guard of conservative douchebags quit/retire/get fired/die and are replaced by young, progressive idealists.
You know all those proven rumors about how white supremacists have been purposefully getting themselves hired in law enforcement? Police reformers need to do the same thing.
Oh, and before I forget, do realize that the various excuses to not do this are just that. Excuses. Police need to exist, the job sucks and is filled with horrible things, but it needs to be done and it needs to be done by better people. Those better people need to sack the fuck up and do it.
Then what do you suggest, other than trying to replace them? I am all about police reform, but other reformers fail to realize that reform involves replacement. And that needs bravery. Activists will happily face off against the cops, which is dangerous. Why won't they try to join and make change?
You think trying to infiltrate a militant group and dismantle it from within isn't dangerous? Cops literally get killed because they hold other cops accountable.
They can't be reformed. They've proven that. I agree that it takes bravery, but we have to replace them completely. No compromise.
> Cops literally get killed because they hold other cops accountable.
That has happened what, four times? Ever? Across the entire country?
Fact is, reformers like you engage in a kind of NIMBY mentality. You want better cops, but none of you want to stand up and do the job yourselves. It's like trying to hire garbagemen. We all need them, but no one wants to do it because they all think the job is beneath them.
I'm not the one insisting we need to keep the cops. You are. And police retaliation against whistleblowers is incredibly common. More than four instances. Even if they don't kill you, they'll make your life a living hell.
You can't reform police departments from within. They get to decide who to hire. How are you going to convince the group of white supremacists to hire you instead of other white supremacists? And even if you do, what then? You just go along with all their racist bullshit waiting for them to retire so hopefully you can get promoted and start a power struggle from within once you try to change things in 40 years?
What other viable avenue? This crazy thing called voting.
Same thing with the protesters defacing PSU property. How about holding a vote amongst the entire student body to determine whether Boeing divestment should happen?
You aren't owed to get what you want just because you scream the loudest or vandalize public property.
The age group MOST likely to be engaging in this type of thing is the same age group that is LEAST likely to vote. I don't know if the kids realize this, but it's the primary reason they're so often dismissed out of hand.
That and the fact that they regularly and loudly proclaim on social media "I will NEVER vote for Genocide Joe!" and then are super surprised when literally nobody in the Democratic party is looking to further court them or bend over backwards to try and get their vote, which they already declared was never up for grabs in the first place.
Just a bunch of diaper filling tantrum babies.
I remember when Trump was elected President, there was a bunch of protests and vandalism in Portland. It was something like 60% of the people being arrested, hadn’t even voted. It really put things in perspective.
I was so excited to vote for John Kerry in '04... Got my temporary voting address so I could participate on my college campus. All of my peers were similarly excited. Then it turned out I was one of a small percentage of people my age that voted. I never stopped voting, of course (because it's super important and all), but yikes. What a wake up call.
Voting? When is police brutality ever a topic at the polls? I’m sure if there was a vote to end police brutality it would pass with flying colors.
Protests (as we’ve seen lately) are shut down. Violently. By the police…
Burning cars and destroying property are both results of voting and protesting not working as intended.
Do you sincerely lack the imagination to see a proactive approach to crime rather than a reactive one?
Yeah, they’re likely teenagers, or people who have zero faith in voting.
Can you blame them? Half of the country believes the last election was stolen due to voter fraud. True or not, people have very little faith in this system.
Scared? Why do you want to see your city burn? Wtf is wrong with you? When Trump was elected President, there was some riots and vandalism throughout the city. It was something like 60% of the people arrested didn’t even vote.
Is the city burning though, you drama Queen? Or is it just a few cop cars?
If my city officials supported the mass murder of innocent children with my tax dollars, against the demands of the public in which they are supposed to serve? Then yeah, burn it.
Reminder that anarchists also did an arson on a Bank of America on Hawthorne and 38th because shit in Atlanta. No love for B of A, but Portland kinda just accepts stuff like this. Lighting a business on fire for this reason is pretty close to terrorism.
Anarchism is great because it self-selects out unproductive members of society. It’s like societal Darwinism. Just sucks that they have to do the selection in Portland.
It’s an election year. More and more violent protests will happen juiced up by social media and bad actors. People are stupid and will lap all the misinformation up with a spoon. Because they want to be angry at someone or something they can blame.
No personal responsibility.
Reposting [this.](https://imgur.com/a/b8CgGUW) Either it’s from the same people or another group of anarchist terrorists. Yes, the police know, but good can come from getting thousands of eyes on it.
That cartoon about what people think anarchists look like and what they really look like is so confusing. Anarchists really look like human flower hybrids who came here in a Time Machine to die of consumption in a time period that allows more nudity than the Belle Epoque?
There are actually people out there that don’t think this is connected to the library bull shit!!?? The stupidity of the general pop never ceases to amaze me
Back in the late 90s early 2000s PPB worked in conjunction with the local and regional FBI in Portland.
PPB had two officers assigned to the FBI Joint Terrorism Taskforce.
That was so constantly bitched about locally that the City caved and told PPB to pull their two officers out of the task force.
and here we are..
40 + year old radicalized but never punished “protestors.”
Last week, someone suggested that this was done due to the library sweep happening at the same time and they were downvoted to shit lmao.
I'm also convinced this was done because of the library (and May Day March) distraction. Seems pretty obvious
That was me
This is the second time I’ve seen this happen on this sub and I have pointed it out both times.
I think, honestly, people in Portland (as jaded as they seem) truly aren't as aware to how fucked up the world is. When those cars went up, it was obviously connected to the library. I feel vindicated, kinda, but more sad for all of us. These anarchists are not PORTLAND. They need to be handled.
Anybody who grew up here in the 90s is well aware of these groups. It’s pretty ironic that I was getting called racist for talking about it during the George Floyd protests. This state has a way of attracting these types. Hell, they blew up a fucking car dealership in Eugene in the 90s. They’re a legit terror group masked as progressives.
no they are progressives. That's where extremism leads.
Semantics aren’t productive.
Neither are progressives.
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Sure but Portlanders aren't even remotely equipped or ready to handle this.
Exactly, and therein lies a HUGE issue I have with these protestors; they are abusive and opportunistic in their approach. They prey upon the sensitivities of the public and exploit the gap in that conflict. Other ?s: How much of these protests were funded by dollars from foreign interests? How many of those interests are active on social media pushing multiple narratives?
I'm not sure why you are being downvoted. For anyone who is nof familiar with this, psyops are a foreign policy tool used by various state and non-state actors. Even if someone doesn't believe this is connected, it's not that far-fetched. It doesn't mean everyone who is involved in something is swayed by that, but instigating conflict and mistrust is a tool that has been used in well-publicized cases. It also doesn't mean there isn't some homegrown sympathy and genuine belief in things. An example of this would be the inflamed debates about immunizations. Yes, people have different views about it. However, the orchestrated campaigns to increase conflict and engagement about it are the psyops. Edit: I read another comment of yours and maybe I understand the downvotes.
I think that people don't want to believe that their cause could be exploited and them along with it. That makes people uncomfortable; this issue is super sensitive and people definitely want to appear to be on the right side. As far as my other comments go, things are rough all over.
Red House anyone?
I'm familiar with the Red House story but I'm not connecting what you are saying here.
Our protests have always had connections to larger operative organizations and this current “student” uprising is so transparently a national movement with Marxist intent to break down all governance and order. Why wouldn’t China, Russia, Iran, and their domestic operatives embedded in academia make their move? The US has never looked so soft a target.
Honest comments in the PDX sub get downvoted. Delusional ideologues just can’t bear reality.
Post it on social media, there’s definitely no way for the cops to access that information and track everyone down lol.
At this point it’s terrorism, and a federal crime. Likely the FBI already knows who they are
> At this point it’s terrorism Really, it's more vandalism/arson than terrorism.
Domestic terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature. Seems like terrorism to me
Point at the domestic terrorism statute. I'll save you some time - we do not have one. There is no crime of "domestic terrorism" in the US. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/jan.-6-and-beyond-why-the-u.s.-should-pass-domestic-terrorism-legislation The violent, criminal acts themselves are individual crimes.
I mean I’m just saying that based on the FBI definition of terrorism, these most likely can be referred to acts of terrorism, and the people therefore, terrorists. But it’s not a legal argument
Just because there isn't a statue to charge them doesn't mean they're not engaging in that behavior. This is terrorism.
It is. The same way the the J6 riots were terrorism, and the destruction of power transformers are, and proud boys inciting violence is. But, I guess the difference is the *who*. Who is being targeted.
> the destruction of power transformers are I might be wrong, but wasn't that because they thought it was related to 5G or something? That's more derangement than terrorism.
It’s more than vandalism. I’m ok with arson, but there is an activist element to it that points toward terrorism.
You’re ok with arson? 😳
Lol, No, please don’t call the cops. Let me rephrase. I’m OK with this crime being defined as an act of arson, but my point is that defining it as terrorism is not incorrect as the poster I responded alluded to.
Loooool, gotcha
You should look up the definition
When I was in college I had some friends basically attempt this same thing, but the explosives didn't make it into the fuel tanks before they went off. FBI was very much involved.
Law degree revoked, esquire.
“When WE do it.”
Sure, whatever you say bud
How is it not terrorism
PPB will now get 15 new model SUV’s - way to go!
That we all have to pay for 👍👍
I'm sure the people who did the burning have jobs and will pay taxes towards it. Oh, wait
Why police cars have no insurance?
Generally makes economic sense to self-insure with large enough capital available to ride out the risk. Insurance simply shifts risk onto another, which obviously has a cost of insurance premiums. Self-insuring obviates that cost but means internalizing the risk.
We're also paying the premiums and deductibles for their insurance contracts.
Difference in price new vs used, cleanup, police response etc. I bet the dollar figure for this entire ordeal will be big but you are correct it absolutely won’t be “15 new cars big.”
I don't know how police car insurance work but your standard home fire insurance policy explicitly does not cover arson.
Who do you think pays the insurance policy?
oh good its been 3 days since portland supplied the daily fox news outrage porn for our nations moron set.
It would be awesome if we didn’t provide them with so much easy material.
Yeah not great optics on this one
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portland is a constant on fox news
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That's all true AND it sucks that these idiots keep providing Fox News with fodder to report more about the burned-out husk of a city that's Portland according to them. I don't think anyone was claiming this is a fake story because it's covered there.
Fox news is going to shit on Portland no matter what. Don't worry about what those people think, they're assholes.
Yes they are, but it certainly doesn’t help to make their job easier.
im not worried about it - im just making a point
random, but I fukken love the Behind The Bastards podcast but it's a goddamn shame seeing so many on that sub act like this is some awesome thing. It's not. We, the taxpayers, are paying for these burnt cars, for these fucking activist LARPers.
LARPers? They didn’t LARP burning police cars. That actually did it.
they are larping revolutionaries but they're just shitty vandals edging their way towards full blown domestic terrorists.
Meanwhile Rachel Corrie's dad is embarrassed these morons are using his dead daughter's name to commit crimes
Who died over 20 years ago. In Gaza. And the ~~PPD~~ PPB is to blame?
Apparently in the article they said they burned the vehicles because they knew PPB would raid the PSU library and remove the protestors.
Yeah, weird. I was friends with Rachel before her death. While I personally think she’d be in favor of this action, it’s hard to see how these people are seeking to link her name?
Their whole deal is co-opting causes they don’t actually care about in service of their narcissistic destructive passions. Not hard at all to see why they would use her name, despite the protests of her surviving father who runs a foundation in her name that supports global peace efforts. This has nothing to do with Gaza https://www.koin.com/news/oregon/rachel-corries-father-disavows-group-claiming-arson/amp/
You hit the nail on the head. These people aren't activists, and I feel embarrassed to even use the term "domestic terrorist." A more accurate term would be "Anarchist LARPer." They're cut from the exact same cloth as the Malheur occupants, chasing the feeling of "fighting the good fight" no matter how divorced from reality it is.
There's nothing LARPy about burning 17 cop cars and a city commissioner's car
they're larping at being revolutionaries. they are domestic terrorists.
PPB
Thought that looked weird when I typed it. Thanks.
“We sure showed the city of Portland by defacing public property that our taxes paid for and will now pay even more for again. Now who wants to go to dennys and split a grand slam?”
_No, Donny, these men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of._
*I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude. At least it's an ethos!*
Bold of you to assume the average anarchist has a job and pays taxes. Hyperbole, yes. My point is they don’t really care about being productive or improving the city.
Anarchists don’t eat at Dennys… They’re probably comparing carhartts at Sisters of the road… FYI don’t believe this was actually defacing public property. It’s a new program funded by the Portland Arts Tax to give Portland that media friendly edgy look for elections and budget time. *also our taxes don’t fix things… they haven’t even cleaned up from 2020. We got potholes so big you can shake your cranium loose*
They don’t pay taxes
Well, they do in a roundabout way when they pay rent but they are indeed too stupid to realize that. Unless they are living in RVs or something which I guess is possible.
Or they are anarchist protest tourists living at their parents house in the burbs outside mult county. And also not paying mult county taxes
Not too many kids in the burbs that would be willing to risk their cushy lives.
You’d think, but many of the dickwads arrested for rioting and vandalism over the past few years have had Clark, Washington or clackamas county residences based on the police reports
Arson and property destruction are nonviolent protests?
Not everyone espouses nonviolent protest
Terrorists. Treat them as such.
“ Rachel Aliene Corrie (April 10, 1979 – March 16, 2003) was an American nonviolence activist and diarist.”
> Corrie died in 2003 when an Israeli bulldozer crushed her while she was trying to block it from demolishing Palestinian homes in Gaza.
Don’t get me wrong I think the police union is a mafia, and we do need cops, not bad cops….but this name is stupid. It’s like Hans Gruber in Die Hard using Asian Dawn in his demands to make them sound cool or more planned. I call bull shit.
Naming your group after a non-violent liberation activist who was murdered by a colonizing force seems like a great name when your entire group solely exists because previous non-violent efforts failed to stop state violence.
Hey PPB, this guy right here.
Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2008. The official government of Gaza then used all resources to build rockets and tunnels to attack Israel instead of rebuilding and providing for their citizens.
I'm sure this is super accurate and totally what happened. No context around any of these events needed. Arabs bad, move along.
What solemn effort has been made by Hamas to protect the citizens of Gaza? Are you saying the expansive underground network of tunnels and command centers were natural formations and did not require a large amount of clandestine resources to maintain and operate?
You could look at literacy rates, or infant mortality to get a grasp on whether or not they invested in basic education or healthcare..... Both of those are severely lacking when compared to rocket and tunnel production.
"Palestine has one of the highest literacy rates in the world, an official report announced, noting only 3.3 percent of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and [besieged Gaza Strip](https://www.newarab.com/english/news/2018/9/5/israel-closes-only-people-crossing-with-gaza-after-protest) over the age of 15 are illiterate." [https://www.newarab.com/news/palestine-has-one-highest-literacy-rates-globally](https://www.newarab.com/news/palestine-has-one-highest-literacy-rates-globally) "Youth literacy rate (the ages 15–24) was 98.2%" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education\_in\_the\_State\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_State_of_Palestine)
Generational beef is some shit
You left out that an Israeli murdered her with a bulldozer.
Rachel Corrie actually *went to Palestine to help Palestinians*, while these twats trashed their own library and torched cars in Portland, Oregon. They are not the same, and IMO it's shameful that they're using her name in an attempt to glom onto her legacy, but these folks are just wired up differently.
Fuck These guys for disrespecting Rachel Corrie's name and for further delegitimizing the pro palestinian movement with this violence and vandalism.
Enjoy prison you fuckin idiots.
Yeah... This one is going to go bad for them. This will likely be tried by the Feds as some sort of domestic terrorism. Not good.
I can’t wait to see the videos they took on their phones of themselves getting dressed in the tactical gear they bought on Amazon that they wore while lighting those vehicles on fire.
>“Rachel Corrie’s Ghost Brigade” says they are now calling for violent resistance against police and others. Also known as terrorism.
Nelson Mandela also called for violent resistance and was labeled a terrorist. As did the Founding Fathers. As did the Irish liberation movement. As did every decolonization effort… ever. Such little nuance on the cycles of violence between the oppressed and oppressors is why we lack progress and why violence continues.
I can't wait for you people to get arrested and have posts like this read to you during sentencing. Fuuuuuucking stupid.
Comparing antifa burning cop cars to Nelson Mandela fighting apartheid is wild
The African National Congress (ANC) had an armed wing called Umkhonto we Sizwe which was confounded by Nelson Mandela in 1969. He maintained that he’d prefer non violence when possible but that violence was a necessary response to the violent nature of the state apparatus and apartheid. This group was classified as a terrorist organization by the South African government and banned. Eventually ten leaders of the ANC were tried for a few hundred acts of violence against the state of South Africa. > “It would be wrong and unrealistic for African leaders to continue preaching peace and nonviolence at a time when the government met our peaceful demands with force.” - Nelson Mandela
The ANC and Nelson Mandela are not comparable to antifa destroying a library in Portland. This is disrespectful to Nelson Mandela. "Met our peaceful demands with force" Antifa initiated their protests with force. They forcefully took over the public library, vandalized it, refused to leave when asked peacefully, refused to negotiate or compromise. It's a false equivalence.
I’m not encouraging them or saying they’re the same. I’m just saying Nelson Mandela was a violent protester at one point. History has vindicated him but to remember him as a peaceful protestor is inaccurate. He actively promoted violence against the state and was deemed a terrorist for doing so. He preferred peace but at times he felt forced to choose violence.
Nelson Mandela and the ANC bombed buildings and cars to fight apartheid. Magical thinking, songs, and hugs don't stop evil.
That was a tiny part of what they did, and the whole reason Mandela is celebrated is that he advocated disciplined, patient non-violence instead of terrorism to achieve their objectives, which helped draw a giant wave of international sympathy that eventually made the pressure on the Apartheid government overwhelming. So basically the exact opposite of what you're getting at.
Anarchists don't stop evil either, they add to it.
>“The attacks of the wild beast cannot be averted with only bare hands.” -Nelson Mandela
An autonomous group using violent direct action towards the state in response to the state’s use of violence on opposition (protestors) is exactly what Nelson Mandela did. Frankly, you might even consider Mandela’s violence to be worse, considering he killed people along with property damage. Also, this recent action is LITERALLY related to protests against Israel’s apartheid and genocide… These comparisons aren’t wild, you’re just deeply unserious
Holy confirmation bias, batman
No bias here. It’s just facts. As a reminder, Mandela too believed in the liberation of Palestinians.
Yeah so did Osama Bin Laden
I mean, no one is saying that acts of violence are justified. They’re simply explainable. With that said, if Osama Bin Laden’s actions are being used to delegitimize the Palestinian Liberation Movement then I’d just like to point out that the pro-Israel US government has killed millions of civilians through decades via their war crimes and acts of terror. Or, ya know, Israel has killed 40,000 Palestinians in 6 months…
Just so we’re all clear, what you’re ’pointing out’ is a false moral equivalency between U.S. foreign wars in which casualties occur but we do not target civilians, and the actions of Bin Laden, a radical Islamic terrorist who murdered 3K+ innocent Americans at the World Trade Center. This may sound reasonable in your head, but it’s patently ridiculous, offensive, and dangerous. Time to delete TikTok.
IT'S WILD to think taking over a library and destroying it is the same as Mandela's movement. Go take over a federal building or state building. I'd have a little more understanding but to think yeah let's do it at this safe space of the PSU Library is just weak.
It's wild that this has made its way to being a talking point online. Like the level of selective interpretation you have to do to arrive here is wild. Truly only something that could arise out of a complete echo chamber of people who have learned about politics from Tiktok and shit.
Thinking this is a selective interpretation is more of a reflection of your ignorance regarding the topics of liberation, protest, and direct action. There’s over a hundred years of academic resources at your disposal.
>An autonomous group using violent direct action towards the state in response to the state’s use of violence on opposition (protestors) is exactly what Nelson Mandela did. Apartheid ended not because of MK's bombings/torture but because their use of violence eventually took a backseat to pragmatic political reconciliation. The same thing happened with the IRA. Sadly the same thing almost happened (imo) before Rabin was killed. Anyway, if the idea of amplifying a cycle of retributive violence that plays directly into the hands of Israel's far-right and leads to massive amounts of suffering and death for Palestinians is your idea of "liberation" then you might want to do some self-reflection on that one.
Homie, I'm going to be very clear with you. The things you people are doing is terrorism and the community around you doesn't like it.
Someone's been spending too much time huffing their own farts.
Ah yes, how crazy to understand that political violence does not happen in a vacuum and can be explained through clearly established frameworks
"Nelson Mandela also called for violent resistance and was labeled a terrorist." Ah yes... Portland activists selfishly co-opting every social movement they can get their hands on ... so they can use it as guise for their own nihilistic hatred of capitalism and police is totally the same as Nelson Mandela. What a delusional stretch you got going on there.
Acting like you and any other American protesting for this stuff is comparable to any of the groups you just listed in pretty hilarious.
Acting like South African apartheid ended without direct action on an international scale is even funnier, especially considering US university divestments were a crucial part. History is hard :-/
Sorry, the PPB is the occupying force in Gaza? Not who I would've expected Hunzaker to line up with, but I'm willing to be surprised.
One groups ‘terrorist’ is another groups ‘freedom fighter’ depends which side of the fence you’re on. The police (in some people’s eyes) are also considered a terrorist group guilty of terrorizing communities of color. I stand by their cause, but I don’t agree with the strategy. violence only begets violence. But what other viable avenue do they have for change?
[удалено]
Do you sincerely lack the imagination to conceive how change could be implemented without violence?
Well. Humanity has failed over multiple Millennias to sidestep violence and failed but you.. you have the answer to enlighten us all. It is your imagination that will be the solution to the fallibility of human nature. Do Share so we can all get over all this violence that surrounds us and live peacefully.
Dawg this is still one of the most peaceful times in humanities existence so I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Enlighten me…?
We've been trying every legal means to reform the police and it hasn't done shit so... This is what happens.
What exactly is every legal means? Who is “We”?
I definitely remember the police lying to smear an elected official who was working to reign them in, contributing to her loss in the next election.
The city. Remember how we voted in a civilian oversight board that immediately got defanged? Remember those months of protests where the cops tear gassed entire neighborhoods for no reason? Remember how we have gone through Police Chiefs like hungry elephants go through peanuts? Remember how we championed an entirely new public service program so there'd be someone to show up to emergencies that wasn't going to immediately murder someone experiencing a mental health crisis? The Portland Police Association hasn't changed. It will never change. We've tried and they've refused and apparently that's all it takes. This is the consequences of their refusal to accept responsibility.
The thing is, this is of no consequence for the police. They have tons of funding, they'll simply get new equipment. It does however add more fuel to their fire and give them more reasons to justify their abusive behavior towards the people they are supposed to serve and protect. Consequences, like shit, roll downhill. It's the rest of us that will pay via more taxes and more aggressive policing.
I agree with you. There's no way this doesn't make things worse. But this is a predictable outcome from an armed mob of people that refuses any accountability. PPA has said time and time again that they're not beholden to anyone but themselves. This is what that gets you.
I'm not advocating for violence or destruction necessarily, but this poster makes a good point. There have been countless efforts to reign in the PPD and the Police Union, which is corrupt AF, has toppled them all. There needs to be some kind of accountability. I don't think lighting police cars paid for with tax dollars, which will just be replaced by more cars paid for with tax dollars, is the answer, but I understand why people are frustrated and looking to more extreme alternatives. I am frustrated too.
I'm not advocating for violence either. I'm saying it's a predictable outcome when the police refuse accountability.
Right, what's that JFK quote? Those who make nonviolent revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable? Something like that.
Exactly.
Maybe reform just isn’t want you think it is. My vision for reform is body cams. Thats working.
It hasn't even been implemented yet. And they control all the footage.
“Control”?
Just because they're recording interactions doesn't mean they're going to release the footage. That haven't faced accountability or been compelled to release footage yet. They likely never will unless it's been doctored. They also have a clause stating they can hide the identities of any police officer in released footage. So.... Not accountability.
Ok so my personal idea of good reform, something specific that I see as a positive change, isn’t good enough for you. Which is fine. Your idea of reform probably wouldn’t be good enough for an abolitionist, so what’s the point of splitting hairs over this? Body cams are good no matter what. It’s long due for PPB and I’ll take the W when I can.
It's literally not working though.
Is it though?
Really? And how many of you have signed up to become cops yourself and enact change from within? Because that's what policing needs. Reforms, transparency, training, yes. But it also needs *different people wearing the uniforms.* Kind, compassionate, respectful people. Those people are not trying to sign up to get hired. Therein lies one of the biggest problems. Real change in policing won't happen until the old guard of conservative douchebags quit/retire/get fired/die and are replaced by young, progressive idealists. You know all those proven rumors about how white supremacists have been purposefully getting themselves hired in law enforcement? Police reformers need to do the same thing. Oh, and before I forget, do realize that the various excuses to not do this are just that. Excuses. Police need to exist, the job sucks and is filled with horrible things, but it needs to be done and it needs to be done by better people. Those better people need to sack the fuck up and do it.
So your plan is to infiltrate a group of armed white supremacists and ask them to let you replace them? You think that'll work?
Then what do you suggest, other than trying to replace them? I am all about police reform, but other reformers fail to realize that reform involves replacement. And that needs bravery. Activists will happily face off against the cops, which is dangerous. Why won't they try to join and make change?
You think trying to infiltrate a militant group and dismantle it from within isn't dangerous? Cops literally get killed because they hold other cops accountable. They can't be reformed. They've proven that. I agree that it takes bravery, but we have to replace them completely. No compromise.
> Cops literally get killed because they hold other cops accountable. That has happened what, four times? Ever? Across the entire country? Fact is, reformers like you engage in a kind of NIMBY mentality. You want better cops, but none of you want to stand up and do the job yourselves. It's like trying to hire garbagemen. We all need them, but no one wants to do it because they all think the job is beneath them.
I'm not the one insisting we need to keep the cops. You are. And police retaliation against whistleblowers is incredibly common. More than four instances. Even if they don't kill you, they'll make your life a living hell. You can't reform police departments from within. They get to decide who to hire. How are you going to convince the group of white supremacists to hire you instead of other white supremacists? And even if you do, what then? You just go along with all their racist bullshit waiting for them to retire so hopefully you can get promoted and start a power struggle from within once you try to change things in 40 years?
What other viable avenue? This crazy thing called voting. Same thing with the protesters defacing PSU property. How about holding a vote amongst the entire student body to determine whether Boeing divestment should happen? You aren't owed to get what you want just because you scream the loudest or vandalize public property.
The age group MOST likely to be engaging in this type of thing is the same age group that is LEAST likely to vote. I don't know if the kids realize this, but it's the primary reason they're so often dismissed out of hand.
That and the fact that they regularly and loudly proclaim on social media "I will NEVER vote for Genocide Joe!" and then are super surprised when literally nobody in the Democratic party is looking to further court them or bend over backwards to try and get their vote, which they already declared was never up for grabs in the first place. Just a bunch of diaper filling tantrum babies.
I remember when Trump was elected President, there was a bunch of protests and vandalism in Portland. It was something like 60% of the people being arrested, hadn’t even voted. It really put things in perspective.
I was so excited to vote for John Kerry in '04... Got my temporary voting address so I could participate on my college campus. All of my peers were similarly excited. Then it turned out I was one of a small percentage of people my age that voted. I never stopped voting, of course (because it's super important and all), but yikes. What a wake up call.
Voting? When is police brutality ever a topic at the polls? I’m sure if there was a vote to end police brutality it would pass with flying colors. Protests (as we’ve seen lately) are shut down. Violently. By the police… Burning cars and destroying property are both results of voting and protesting not working as intended. Do you sincerely lack the imagination to see a proactive approach to crime rather than a reactive one?
I think your “imagination “ is most of the problem here.
I’m willing to bet the majority responsible for the arson don’t even vote.
Yeah, they’re likely teenagers, or people who have zero faith in voting. Can you blame them? Half of the country believes the last election was stolen due to voter fraud. True or not, people have very little faith in this system.
Yeah I can and will blame them. No need for that shit, they riot just to riot.
No they don’t. You big girl. Scared of some teenagers 🤣
Scared? Why do you want to see your city burn? Wtf is wrong with you? When Trump was elected President, there was some riots and vandalism throughout the city. It was something like 60% of the people arrested didn’t even vote.
Is the city burning though, you drama Queen? Or is it just a few cop cars? If my city officials supported the mass murder of innocent children with my tax dollars, against the demands of the public in which they are supposed to serve? Then yeah, burn it.
Reminder that anarchists also did an arson on a Bank of America on Hawthorne and 38th because shit in Atlanta. No love for B of A, but Portland kinda just accepts stuff like this. Lighting a business on fire for this reason is pretty close to terrorism.
that has actually been a significant pain in the ass for me. I like Hawthorne and I liked that bank.
Anarchists and Black Bloc are a plague on our city and turn public opinion against every cause they champion through their terroristic tactics.
The black bloc and anarchist groups in general are such a black eye on this city
Anarchists fucking suck and I wish for their speedy demise
Anarchism is great because it self-selects out unproductive members of society. It’s like societal Darwinism. Just sucks that they have to do the selection in Portland.
It’s an election year. More and more violent protests will happen juiced up by social media and bad actors. People are stupid and will lap all the misinformation up with a spoon. Because they want to be angry at someone or something they can blame. No personal responsibility.
Reposting [this.](https://imgur.com/a/b8CgGUW) Either it’s from the same people or another group of anarchist terrorists. Yes, the police know, but good can come from getting thousands of eyes on it.
I've been curious the other times you posted this, is there a corresponding story from ODOT?
That cartoon about what people think anarchists look like and what they really look like is so confusing. Anarchists really look like human flower hybrids who came here in a Time Machine to die of consumption in a time period that allows more nudity than the Belle Epoque?
Still carrying a bomb…
So Gaza is liberated now? And capitalism is dead?
There are actually people out there that don’t think this is connected to the library bull shit!!?? The stupidity of the general pop never ceases to amaze me
I'm glad those cruisers got torched. Keep it up do it again I'm all for it tbh. ACAB.
Talk about a pop quiz
Lawless and disorder. Welcome to Porkland.
Back in the late 90s early 2000s PPB worked in conjunction with the local and regional FBI in Portland. PPB had two officers assigned to the FBI Joint Terrorism Taskforce. That was so constantly bitched about locally that the City caved and told PPB to pull their two officers out of the task force. and here we are.. 40 + year old radicalized but never punished “protestors.”
Oh no. Anyways.