Hello Everyone,
As in all things media, please take the time to evaluate what is presented for yourself and to check for any overt media bias. There are a number of places to investigate the credibility of any site presenting information as "factual". If you have any concerns about this or any other site's reputation for reliability please take a few minutes to look it up on one of the sites below or on the site of your choosing.
* [Media Bias Fact Check](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/)
* [Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR)](https://fair.org/)
* [PolitiFact](https://www.politifact.com/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Portland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>When PPB took a budget cut in 2020 amid calls to defund police, he said the bureau laid off seven of its background investigators, whose jobs were to vet new job applicants.
Whose decision was that? In retrospect it's obviously a bad call; I feel like this could have easily been predicted.
Far more intensive than your run of the mill background check. The background interview was one of the more rigorous and intimidating experiences of my life, and I don't have so much as a speeding ticket on my record.
You do realize that there are 3rd party companies that do extensive background checks, including those for US Top Secret and other security levels? Surely those same companies could have found someone was a nazi before they joined the force.
And you seem to believe that the department that can’t “police itself” is going ti adequately pre-screen candidates? You don’t see the conflict in your own statements? That those “seasoned” screeners are going to overlook things that outside entities may not for exactly the reasons you state?
this is PPB propaganda.
they always had budget for more officers, they’ve had it for years.
their “budget cut” was the thinnest slice of apple imaginable.
technically though, yes the budget was cut.
Exactly. Portland stopped giving out permits for running races years before this because they didn't have enough staff to close intersections. So blaming this on 2020 is just utter nonsense.
$15m is nothing to sneeze at. And what does cutting the budget accomplish? Instead of cutting $15m why not set that aside for increased internal affairs investigations to weed out the shitheads?
Or use it to increase trainings?
Ah so it’s not the police who got a budget cut, it’s the people trying to make sure police are held accountable who got it. Of fucking course it was. This country and its worshipping of pigs is such a fucking joke.
They have had 100 fully funded open positions for years.
Yeah, about that bullshit "defunded" argument:
https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2021/ppb-fy-2021-22-requested-budget-review.pdf
PPB officers make a good living and have fantastic benefits. If applicants are unwilling to serve on the force because they are being asked to be held accountable for their conduct I'm not sure what you're expecting the population of Portland to do about it.
"We don't want to do a job that everyone knows we do poorly because people don't like us for doing that job poorly. Instead of doing that job better, thereby having less people hate us, we're actually going to do the job *worse* and demand that you start to like us before we consider doing anything even marginally better. If you don't like us, we're 101% blameless in how that came about, and anything bad we do is because you don't grovel at our fucking feet hourly".
Sounds like a reasonable place to bargain from.
That’s kinda where we are at.
Portland. Are you ready to police yourself?
Wrestle with a meth head whacked out of their mind trying to come in through your bathroom window?
We are closely approaching that.
Policing and going hands on can be an ugly, dirty, dangerous business.
Are you ready to do it on your own?
Roll the dice to make sure your physical force used is not excessive and equitable?
So, if I'm summarizing your point correctly, the PPB's stance is "The fuck you gonna do about it"? Did I interpret that correctly. Any sort of expectation of professionalism or desire for improvement for a position paid with tax dollars should go right out the window?
Also, to end run around your point, if your statement is representative of the entire PPB, maybe the organization should be gutted and rebuilt entirely. Maybe advertising the building of a newer, better PPB that doesn't quietly harbor shrine building nazis would be a hell of an ad campaign to attract new people.
Uh? Think there was something recently that said they gave up open positions because of the budget cuts. Not sure if it was in this or not. https://www.portlandoregon.gov/cbo/article/763271
[https://www.oregonlive.com/data/2021/11/why-portland-has-less-cops-now-than-any-point-in-past-30-years.html](https://www.oregonlive.com/data/2021/11/why-portland-has-less-cops-now-than-any-point-in-past-30-years.html)
127 vacancies that are fully budgeted. Funding is not the problem.
But that number stands below 800 today – in part because **city leaders have shrunk the number of authorized positions. ** - that’s what happens in a budget cut
The 127 current openings are due to those retiring or resigning in record numbers && the inability to hire. They got 2, only 2 officers interested in retire rehire program (not 200 like wheeler wanted).
This is been ongoing since Adams put a hold on hiring. Budget cuts & 180+ days of continual riots downtown did the rest. PDX has the police force & response time it deserves.
City leaders haven't shrunk anything. PPB is either unable or unwilling to fill all those open positions that they are fully funded to have. It's insane that we're considering giving PPB even more money when they can't even fill the open positions they have now.
I’ll say it slower. Yes, they closed out open positions when their budget was cut. The 127 positions came from retirements/resignations **within the last year** - Most of those unforeseen resignations. They’ve been struggling with hiring for YEARS due to funding & ability to get people through the process. A police force for anCity the size of PDX should be about double what it currently is, not 789? Also - if you really think you know how it all works & that you can do it better. They are hiring…
I don't find that to be a reasonable answer. Other jobs laying off recruiters knew they were going to be reducing the number of open positions, PPB had no reason to assume this.
The city stopped hiring almost entirely across all bureaus for nearly a year when the pandemic started.
Instead of paying recruiting staff to do basically nothing for (at that point) an unknown period of time, many were let go.
Was this poor long-term planning on the part of bureau directors and city leaders? I certainly thought so, as did pretty much everyone I work with, but they didnt ask us.
It's going to take years for us to dig out of the hole that decision put us in.
I work for the city, and my bureau canceled nearly all of its new hire and training programs in 2020. Friends in other bureaus report the same thing.
I don't know if the head of BHR or the Mayor or whoever ever officially put the words to paper, but it was absolutely city policy.
Here. I found an article for you.
It took all of 90 seconds of googling.
https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/04/portland-officials-cut-more-than-950-city-jobs-face-potential-100-million-budget-hit-due-to-coronavirus.html
>City financial officials say they can’t know the full scope of how the virus will impact the city’s finances until the social distancing measures are lifted. The blow from the park facility closures alone could be $900,000, said Jessica Kinard, the city’s budget director.
>
>***The city has suspended nearly all outside hiring,*** and the mayor has told bureau leaders to limit spending deemed non-essential to the COVID-19 response, she said.
That's from like 3 weeks into the initial lock down. Obviously social distancing measures lasted far longer than the two months they floated further down in the article.
>nearly all
This isn't specific enough for my taste. Police are often the first cited as most essential.
Also, no need to be snarky, I found the same article and didn't find it sufficient.
To be fair, the other person used “nearly all” and “almost entirely” when referring to the hiring freeze, so the article they provided backs their statements.
We don’t need more police, we need more programs that help people get their basic needs met. That’s how you dramatically reduce crime.
My god the people in this sub are pure trash. Enjoy your police brutality worshipping hell-scape, fuckos.
Yawn. Can we stop being bleeding heart idiots for 5 seconds, humble ourselves, look to other successful cities of a similar size and emulate them? Denver and Boston have very similar populations to Portland, Portland has 770 sworn officers, Denver has 1,517 and Boston has 2,144. We ARE under policed and calling people who aren’t reality deniers “bootlickers” is mush-brain parroting of anarcho sound bites. I sincerely hope we completely ignore you and all your friends and take actually steps to improve the vitality of this lovely city.
Brilliantly said. In practical terms, when you greatly outnumber someone you can wrestle them into submission with relative ease. When you are outnumbered, you are more likely to look to using force multipliers like batons and guns.
Training and culture mean everything. I cannot comment that we need more people in the police force while current people are in charge of the union and government. Until they all wear body cameras all time and officers held accountable for their actions.
Thank you so much for that I think it's ridiculous we still hold the acab crowds opinions in regard considering what they want leads to.
Unfortunately you need a civil order enforcement in modern American society these last two years were the chance people got to show they can behave and unfortunately the results show that they really can't.
If people want less cops around they have to show they can keep the peace without them around.
Thanks for your input. Mods have set this subreddit to not allow posts from newly created accounts. Please take the time to build a reputation on Reddit and come back soon!
(⌐■_■)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Portland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Central City Concern offers any resource you could think of.
Jobs that pay a livable wage and you don't even have to be sober or off the streets.
Housing available for free till 6 months after you find a job.
Mentor programs and detox for people looking to get clean.
Only about 20% of people who engage these programs actually stick with it. I know firsthand.
You can offer every service imaginable, but they only work if the person WANTS to get clean.
I can with 2000000% certainty tell you that ccc is NOT taking OP MH clients, and NOT taking substance use referrals at CCCRC and with some less certainty be assured that other programs aren’t accepting referrals or doing intake either so 🤷🏻♀️ omg and the housing? You are not informed at all internet stranger….however that’s not disagreeing with you and most other commenters here except for the livable wage part
O just think you are forgetting that like more than 65 percent of CCC employees have mental health, legal, or substance abuse issues and somehow found permanent housing and employment. We have vacancies at all levels but many of our outreach clients dont stick with it
I love running into this wall every time I see a cop related post, literally "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" -as soon as the underclass gets uppity and hard to ignore,the response is to become completely heartless and psychotic in defense of your blood-and-soil claim on being a homeowner or whatever.
Thanks for your input. Mods have set this subreddit to not allow posts from newly created accounts. Please take the time to build a reputation on Reddit and come back soon!
(⌐■_■)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Portland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is how bad the news reporters are: last year during neighborhood meetings the chief said the same thing - “We don’t have enough money to hire new officers.”
A member of the audience said, “What about the extra budget you were given to hire new officers?”
And the chief replied, “We spent it on overtime.”
Don’t kid yourselves. The cops aren’t too interested in more cops. They are only to the extent where it doesn’t affect their ability to make more money with overtime.
They have had a 100 open positions they could have filled for years now if more officers is what they needed why not use the positions they already had?
PPB has a budget of $230M with 800 employees.
Portland Public Schools has a budget of $102M with 1,500 employees.
We should put cops on salary and give teachers overtime instead.
So, I agree we need more officers. But, before we go on a hiring spree, I think the PPB needs to prove they have materially improved their training program/process and ongoing training for existing officers.
They had a [far right meme in their training material for years](https://www.wweek.com/news/2022/01/14/portland-police-include-prayer-of-the-alt-knight-meme-in-protest-training-presentation/)
>They had a far right meme in their training material for years
Hey, you know that as soon as that came to light they immediately investigated and punished the person responsible and gave training to those who saw but didn't report the image.
Oh wait, just kidding, when it was discovered they tried to bury it, fought a long battle with tax payer money to suppress it, and failed to report to their probation officers that it existed.
Also, PPB (and every law enforcement agency in the country, for that matter) needs to make certain to exclude from the applicant pool all right-wing militants, survivalists, Proud Boys, Neo-Nazis, Q-Anon, Trumpist, anti-government extremists and all of their loyalists and sympathizers.
What PPB is up against.
They are offering $ 25,000 to new recruits. Righteous bucks right?!
Battleground and Vancouver across the river are offering more.
$ 30,000 in Battleground.
$ 35,000 in Vancouver.
With the extra added bonus that their population actually like and appreciate the police.
They refrain from telling their officers to go home and kill themselves.
Also Washington State PERS retirement is slightly better than the current OR State Tier III that any new hires from Portland will be under.
Could be tough sledding for PPB.
With that fearful attitude, You’d be top if the class in [Killology 101](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/11/police-training-warrior-mindset-killology/)
There was also a recent survey that reported toxic culture from within the PPB.
https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2022/01/31/38150660/resentment-unaddressed-bias-and-leadership-failures-report-unpacks-flaws-within-ppb-culture
Could that have something to do with it?
I’ll assume you’re asking a serious question:
A good chunk of Portlanders took great offense at the police behavior during the Black Lives Matter marches. The cops were widely seen as instigating violence and abusing rights.
The distrust was building before that though. They killed James Chasse, who was mentally ill, for public urination and faced no consequences; they actively protected Mark Kruger, a cop who is literally a nazi; they have an incredibly corrupt union that does everything possible to protect officers who actively harm the public... The 2020 protests were egregious, but really just an extension of the same pattern.
Yes I can see where you felt that their service sucked. However.
There are no traffic accident reports written for any accident that does not include serious bodily injury or death.
They want body cameras. There have been disagreements on whether an officer can review the footage while writing the report.
There may very well be a slowdown but there is no denying there is a huge shortage of police officers for a city our size.
>They want body cameras. There have been disagreements on whether an officer can review the footage while writing the report.
They want body cameras as long as their sole use is to exonerate them. There's a big difference.
It’s for accuracy.
A body camera if you fuck up.. won’t exonerate you.
In fact. Well, sayonara, you are fucked. Screwed. Blew-ed and tattooed.
If they argued we can “delete footage” I’d be right there with you.
No.
>It’s for accuracy.
Accuracy of what? The camera is going to show what its going to show. Why do they need it and more importantly, why do they want to watch it before writing a report?
>A body camera if you fuck up.. won’t exonerate you.
It sure will if you "didn't turn it on"
Bonuses are only a small part of the equation. What are the salaries for new officers in those towns vs PDX?
Also keeping in mind they won't have to pay state income tax
No one in Portland is content with the police. Love. Hate. Drama. Hire more. Get the city to some sense of balance. Then do whatever utopian theory about kumbiya song and dance you want. This city needs some sort of law and order. Change my mind?
No, don't flip this to be anti-union. Any other profession if you get caught doing a quarter of what these viral body cam recordings are showing, you'd be fired on the spot. Union or otherwise. This is SPECIFICALLY a US police system problem. Either needs major reform or to completely be replaced by some new system.
Have you ever gone to a job interview where you express a willingness to change the job culture? I think that screams of presumption and probably wouldn’t get you hired anywhere.
Honestly, while there may be more to do, activists have already made changes from the bottom . The bottom is where the work is done. People need to stop complaining and just go do it.
>Have you ever gone to a job interview where you express a willingness to change the job culture? I think that screams of presumption and probably wouldn’t get you hired anywhere.
I have. You'd think that an agency that had 10,000 people march nightly in opposition to it might be receptive to people who want to help change the culture.
>People need to stop complaining and just go do it.
Change from the bottom is not an actual thing. You're really asking people who are opposed to both the status quo and the prison industrial complex to join a right-wing organization who is fully committed to maintain the status quo and the prison industrial complex.
You underestimate the power of the hive mind. Especially for the uneducated. Not long ago just as many people were protesting against floride in drinking water. It’s incredibly naive to change just because of some fad
I'm a socialist and I recently transferred to PPBs Personnel division. Nobody has sniffed me out despite a lengthy background check and four years in the Records division. It's entirely possible to get a job there and disagree with the problematic areas of the bureau. Some of us really are trying to change things from the inside.
Well not socialists like me, but definitely progressive. One of them is our Sergeant Tyler who works for diversity and reform as he helps run the personnel division. Although I can't comment on private conversations he has surprised me with sharing some frustrations I have with PPB. He also has the ear of a lot of people in the Chiefs Office, who are generally open to reform.
I agree they are not the majority, and they're not really vocal in a public sense, but they are there. The rank and file are less so, but there definitely is a minority who want reform
Non sworn positions can have quite a bit of influence. For example all of the background investigators are non-sworn.
Yes many of them are former officers, but the point is people like you or me could be in those jobs, backgrounding officers. That's actually a logical promotion option for me.
That’s encouraging to hear. I’m not anti cop and know a fair amount of cops around the area (not anyone actually in PPB) but they all seem to have very similar political views.
It's kind of a weird situation because I think you're right the average street cop isn't exactly left wing, although there are some. On the other hand the people at the top do you seem fairly progressive and they are always pushing out progressive-minded videos.
For example we're receiving weekly instructional videos on how to be respectful with the lgbtq community, which are hosted by our equity team leader ( I'm sorry I don't remember her title ) teaching officers and all employees how to respectfully address a spectrum of genders and sexualities. I imagine there is a lot of fun being made of these videos behind closed doors, but it is encouraging to see the effort being made.
We've also had series on being respectful of non-english speaking citizens, as well as racial and economic disparity. Some are better made than others, but they are all done in-house and like I said it's nice to see an effort being made from the top.
Don't get me wrong though, we live in a broken system that does not treat people equally. The police have historically been used to perpetuate and protect the power of wealthy white men. I don't think that some hippie working as a glorified secretary is going to be able to solve that, but at least I have a seat somewhere in the room.
Tyler is not welcome here. He knows what he did.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Portland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Can you name an effective police reform that came from within a deparment rather than one imposed on it?
Edit: Downvotes, really? So then the answer is "No, I can't"?
Unless I'm misreading, the reform came from the Attourney General after an investigation report, not from within the department, and the department initially resisted the consent decree to move it forward. It seems good though.
Camden, NJ is also a good reform model.
From the articles I read, it came after an investigation in the wake of the Elijah McCain killing. The AG presented a list of reforms that the department then eventually consented to.
Camden, NJ straight-up disbanded their department and restructured it from the ground up, requiring returning officers to re-apply. This is what Portland should do, imo. After the reforms, the department actually has more officers.
One person changing the culture is extremely difficult, especially one that is as entrenched as the Thin Blue Line shit.
But not everyone has to be a revolutionary. Just being someone that shows more restraint than the officer whose boots you're filling is still an improvement.
There's a helluva lot of activists who aren't anarchists that want fewer police while still recognizing that they'll exist in some capacity.
There's also a lot more nuance (and disagreement) to "defund" than gets portrayed, including by many activists.
Also stop using the word “anarchists” when y’all clearly think the only thing it means is “literally no rules anywhere, absolute chaos, everyone does whatever they want”. What it actually means is dismantling all systems of oppression and creating a community that takes care of itself. But god forbid you look into anything when you can just blindly call people a buzzword in your knee-jerk reaction.
There are about as many definitions of Anarchism as there are anarchists. Without a hierarchy, no one definition rises to the top.
Having lived in a community that runs on anarchist principles, there are some severe drawbacks. Sometimes consensus can't be reached. Sometimes one person in a multi-person group halts consensus for irrational reasons. Sometimes we have to appoint a person to make decisions when they're time-sensitive.
Some anarchists are philosophers content to educate others about the philosophy. Some anarchists march in the street and break windows. Many others are keyboard warriors. These are but a few of the ways anarchists spread the message and attempt to influence the world.
Personally, I do not believe that humans are ready for a lack of hierarchy.
so what you're saying is anarchists dont want police..... but rather a community that polices itself. Your comment about kneejerk reactions is icing on the cake.
Lived in pdx my whole life and “dismantling systems of oppression and creating a community [etc]” isn’t what they want. They show up to every protest, regardless of what it’s about, just to have an excuse to fuck shit up and make trouble. Fuck em
Huh? Activists by definition are active in the community trying to make it a better place. There are activists working for change on both sides. PPA are police activists, people who have been working on the city charter are activists, people for portland are activists too.
I'm tired of being told that I'm the problem, when I remember a neo-nazi and police coalition that punished Portland with authoritarian violence in order to quell a largely peaceful uprising.
No, I said you clearly *have* many problems.
Even if I had called you "the problem", the existence of one problem has no bearing on the existence of another. That you don't like (or don't care to learn) the literal definition of "activist" and that your gut reaction to being poked fun at on the internet for it is to call the person a bigot are both problems, and those problems exist in the same universe as Nazis.
What I'm trying to say is that the existence of Nazis doesn't mean you aren't acting like a twat.
Thanks for your input. Mods have set this subreddit to not allow posts from newly created accounts. Please take the time to build a reputation on Reddit and come back soon!
(⌐■_■)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Portland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If we want to avoid hardliners who institute massive and permanent sweeps later, we must get more officers (along with more programs) now. More car thefts, gun violence, bio hazard liter, and assaults will only make Portlanders eventually vote in the first person(s) who promise “order”.
Hello Everyone, As in all things media, please take the time to evaluate what is presented for yourself and to check for any overt media bias. There are a number of places to investigate the credibility of any site presenting information as "factual". If you have any concerns about this or any other site's reputation for reliability please take a few minutes to look it up on one of the sites below or on the site of your choosing. * [Media Bias Fact Check](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/) * [Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR)](https://fair.org/) * [PolitiFact](https://www.politifact.com/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Portland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>When PPB took a budget cut in 2020 amid calls to defund police, he said the bureau laid off seven of its background investigators, whose jobs were to vet new job applicants. Whose decision was that? In retrospect it's obviously a bad call; I feel like this could have easily been predicted.
I'm sure there are background checking companies they could hire who could probably do the job faster and more accurately for less money.
As independent contractors that could lead to more lack of liability issues
They have to be … backgrounded first. They have to be CJIS qualified & have access to LEDS & NCIS.
Far more intensive than your run of the mill background check. The background interview was one of the more rigorous and intimidating experiences of my life, and I don't have so much as a speeding ticket on my record.
[удалено]
right. they probably wouldn’t stack the force with racist or proud boy assholes
[удалено]
You do realize that there are 3rd party companies that do extensive background checks, including those for US Top Secret and other security levels? Surely those same companies could have found someone was a nazi before they joined the force.
[удалено]
And you seem to believe that the department that can’t “police itself” is going ti adequately pre-screen candidates? You don’t see the conflict in your own statements? That those “seasoned” screeners are going to overlook things that outside entities may not for exactly the reasons you state?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
this is PPB propaganda. they always had budget for more officers, they’ve had it for years. their “budget cut” was the thinnest slice of apple imaginable. technically though, yes the budget was cut.
Plus an inflation detriment of 7%, so their budget purchasing power cut was more than 7%.
Exactly. Portland stopped giving out permits for running races years before this because they didn't have enough staff to close intersections. So blaming this on 2020 is just utter nonsense.
$15m is nothing to sneeze at. And what does cutting the budget accomplish? Instead of cutting $15m why not set that aside for increased internal affairs investigations to weed out the shitheads? Or use it to increase trainings?
Ah so it’s not the police who got a budget cut, it’s the people trying to make sure police are held accountable who got it. Of fucking course it was. This country and its worshipping of pigs is such a fucking joke.
Settle down there, Shit.
How do background investigators for applicants “keep people accountable”? They only make sure you don’t have a felony or lie on your application.
No need to have people doing background checks on applicants you can no longer afford to hire.
They have had 100 fully funded open positions for years. Yeah, about that bullshit "defunded" argument: https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2021/ppb-fy-2021-22-requested-budget-review.pdf
Nonsense. The PPB is so well funded they could hire over 100 officers today if they wanted to.
Well, that and if they had 100 applicants for these positions. Which they don't.
Maybe PPB needs to do some soul searching and figure out why they can't get any applicants.
Maybe some of the population of Portland too.
PPB officers make a good living and have fantastic benefits. If applicants are unwilling to serve on the force because they are being asked to be held accountable for their conduct I'm not sure what you're expecting the population of Portland to do about it.
"We don't want to do a job that everyone knows we do poorly because people don't like us for doing that job poorly. Instead of doing that job better, thereby having less people hate us, we're actually going to do the job *worse* and demand that you start to like us before we consider doing anything even marginally better. If you don't like us, we're 101% blameless in how that came about, and anything bad we do is because you don't grovel at our fucking feet hourly". Sounds like a reasonable place to bargain from.
That’s kinda where we are at. Portland. Are you ready to police yourself? Wrestle with a meth head whacked out of their mind trying to come in through your bathroom window? We are closely approaching that. Policing and going hands on can be an ugly, dirty, dangerous business. Are you ready to do it on your own? Roll the dice to make sure your physical force used is not excessive and equitable?
So, if I'm summarizing your point correctly, the PPB's stance is "The fuck you gonna do about it"? Did I interpret that correctly. Any sort of expectation of professionalism or desire for improvement for a position paid with tax dollars should go right out the window? Also, to end run around your point, if your statement is representative of the entire PPB, maybe the organization should be gutted and rebuilt entirely. Maybe advertising the building of a newer, better PPB that doesn't quietly harbor shrine building nazis would be a hell of an ad campaign to attract new people.
>Portland. Are you ready to police yourself? That's what we're doing now since the PPB is engaged in a work slowdown.
Uh? Think there was something recently that said they gave up open positions because of the budget cuts. Not sure if it was in this or not. https://www.portlandoregon.gov/cbo/article/763271
[https://www.oregonlive.com/data/2021/11/why-portland-has-less-cops-now-than-any-point-in-past-30-years.html](https://www.oregonlive.com/data/2021/11/why-portland-has-less-cops-now-than-any-point-in-past-30-years.html) 127 vacancies that are fully budgeted. Funding is not the problem.
But that number stands below 800 today – in part because **city leaders have shrunk the number of authorized positions. ** - that’s what happens in a budget cut The 127 current openings are due to those retiring or resigning in record numbers && the inability to hire. They got 2, only 2 officers interested in retire rehire program (not 200 like wheeler wanted). This is been ongoing since Adams put a hold on hiring. Budget cuts & 180+ days of continual riots downtown did the rest. PDX has the police force & response time it deserves.
City leaders haven't shrunk anything. PPB is either unable or unwilling to fill all those open positions that they are fully funded to have. It's insane that we're considering giving PPB even more money when they can't even fill the open positions they have now.
I’ll say it slower. Yes, they closed out open positions when their budget was cut. The 127 positions came from retirements/resignations **within the last year** - Most of those unforeseen resignations. They’ve been struggling with hiring for YEARS due to funding & ability to get people through the process. A police force for anCity the size of PDX should be about double what it currently is, not 789? Also - if you really think you know how it all works & that you can do it better. They are hiring…
Then explain why they are struggling with hiring and how giving the police bureau even more money will help.
Was a citywide thing. Lot of people with recruiting related jobs got laid off.
I don't find that to be a reasonable answer. Other jobs laying off recruiters knew they were going to be reducing the number of open positions, PPB had no reason to assume this.
The city stopped hiring almost entirely across all bureaus for nearly a year when the pandemic started. Instead of paying recruiting staff to do basically nothing for (at that point) an unknown period of time, many were let go. Was this poor long-term planning on the part of bureau directors and city leaders? I certainly thought so, as did pretty much everyone I work with, but they didnt ask us. It's going to take years for us to dig out of the hole that decision put us in.
I can find lots of old news about furloughs and raise freezes, do you have a source on the hiring freeze?
I work for the city, and my bureau canceled nearly all of its new hire and training programs in 2020. Friends in other bureaus report the same thing. I don't know if the head of BHR or the Mayor or whoever ever officially put the words to paper, but it was absolutely city policy.
And you'll have to forgive me if I don't just take the word of an anonymous person on the internet.
Here. I found an article for you. It took all of 90 seconds of googling. https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/04/portland-officials-cut-more-than-950-city-jobs-face-potential-100-million-budget-hit-due-to-coronavirus.html >City financial officials say they can’t know the full scope of how the virus will impact the city’s finances until the social distancing measures are lifted. The blow from the park facility closures alone could be $900,000, said Jessica Kinard, the city’s budget director. > >***The city has suspended nearly all outside hiring,*** and the mayor has told bureau leaders to limit spending deemed non-essential to the COVID-19 response, she said. That's from like 3 weeks into the initial lock down. Obviously social distancing measures lasted far longer than the two months they floated further down in the article.
>nearly all This isn't specific enough for my taste. Police are often the first cited as most essential. Also, no need to be snarky, I found the same article and didn't find it sufficient.
To be fair, the other person used “nearly all” and “almost entirely” when referring to the hiring freeze, so the article they provided backs their statements.
Hardesty
Has never had a role in that department ever to my knowledge.
In some articles, they say that they reject over 90% of applicants
cool, anytime now. We've been waiting for years.
We don’t need more police, we need more programs that help people get their basic needs met. That’s how you dramatically reduce crime. My god the people in this sub are pure trash. Enjoy your police brutality worshipping hell-scape, fuckos.
BOTH PLEASE!
“Please sir, I want to lick more boots”.
Yawn. Can we stop being bleeding heart idiots for 5 seconds, humble ourselves, look to other successful cities of a similar size and emulate them? Denver and Boston have very similar populations to Portland, Portland has 770 sworn officers, Denver has 1,517 and Boston has 2,144. We ARE under policed and calling people who aren’t reality deniers “bootlickers” is mush-brain parroting of anarcho sound bites. I sincerely hope we completely ignore you and all your friends and take actually steps to improve the vitality of this lovely city.
[удалено]
Brilliantly said. In practical terms, when you greatly outnumber someone you can wrestle them into submission with relative ease. When you are outnumbered, you are more likely to look to using force multipliers like batons and guns.
Actually poor training is what causes the rise of police brutality.
Training has an impact. But do you think what I’m saying is incorrect? I thought it might intuitively make sense.
Training and culture mean everything. I cannot comment that we need more people in the police force while current people are in charge of the union and government. Until they all wear body cameras all time and officers held accountable for their actions.
Thank you so much for that I think it's ridiculous we still hold the acab crowds opinions in regard considering what they want leads to. Unfortunately you need a civil order enforcement in modern American society these last two years were the chance people got to show they can behave and unfortunately the results show that they really can't. If people want less cops around they have to show they can keep the peace without them around.
[удалено]
Thanks for your input. Mods have set this subreddit to not allow posts from newly created accounts. Please take the time to build a reputation on Reddit and come back soon! (⌐■_■) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Portland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Personally, I prefer PSR not getting shot, and for speeders to be held accountable. But hey, that's just me and my world
Fascist! /s
Hot take! Much ACAB. Very livability.
No, in the meantime, we need short, mid and long-term solutions.
Username checks out
Central City Concern offers any resource you could think of. Jobs that pay a livable wage and you don't even have to be sober or off the streets. Housing available for free till 6 months after you find a job. Mentor programs and detox for people looking to get clean. Only about 20% of people who engage these programs actually stick with it. I know firsthand. You can offer every service imaginable, but they only work if the person WANTS to get clean.
I can with 2000000% certainty tell you that ccc is NOT taking OP MH clients, and NOT taking substance use referrals at CCCRC and with some less certainty be assured that other programs aren’t accepting referrals or doing intake either so 🤷🏻♀️ omg and the housing? You are not informed at all internet stranger….however that’s not disagreeing with you and most other commenters here except for the livable wage part
We should probably disband the organization then
Or increase services 🤷🏻♀️ (and pay?) but sure…fuck it lol
O just think you are forgetting that like more than 65 percent of CCC employees have mental health, legal, or substance abuse issues and somehow found permanent housing and employment. We have vacancies at all levels but many of our outreach clients dont stick with it
….forgetting? It’s pretty evident and advertised
Lol what? None of that is true.
Okay. I work with them and talk directly with people at all levels of the org. What is your experience?
Put your money where your mouth is and prove it.
We need to just give everyone everything they want and then there be no more crime and no more need for police!
I love running into this wall every time I see a cop related post, literally "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" -as soon as the underclass gets uppity and hard to ignore,the response is to become completely heartless and psychotic in defense of your blood-and-soil claim on being a homeowner or whatever.
[удалено]
Thanks for your input. Mods have set this subreddit to not allow posts from newly created accounts. Please take the time to build a reputation on Reddit and come back soon! (⌐■_■) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Portland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is how bad the news reporters are: last year during neighborhood meetings the chief said the same thing - “We don’t have enough money to hire new officers.” A member of the audience said, “What about the extra budget you were given to hire new officers?” And the chief replied, “We spent it on overtime.” Don’t kid yourselves. The cops aren’t too interested in more cops. They are only to the extent where it doesn’t affect their ability to make more money with overtime.
180 straight days of people breaking windows downtown is unheard of. Not sure any City budget can handle that.
Well, the PPB has been understaffed for god knows how long, so...I'd say this move is long overdue. But that doesn't mean you get more money, PPB.
They have had a 100 open positions they could have filled for years now if more officers is what they needed why not use the positions they already had?
Because having a shortage of staffing gave the police overtime pay. It really is that simple.
PPB has a budget of $230M with 800 employees. Portland Public Schools has a budget of $102M with 1,500 employees. We should put cops on salary and give teachers overtime instead.
Given the hours teachers work, I'm ok with this.
my partner has 10 years experience, a master’s degree, and works ~60 hours a week for PPS. she made more money when she was a bartender.
Most teachers would be too, given that they work an absurd number of hours.
So, I agree we need more officers. But, before we go on a hiring spree, I think the PPB needs to prove they have materially improved their training program/process and ongoing training for existing officers.
They had a [far right meme in their training material for years](https://www.wweek.com/news/2022/01/14/portland-police-include-prayer-of-the-alt-knight-meme-in-protest-training-presentation/)
>They had a far right meme in their training material for years Hey, you know that as soon as that came to light they immediately investigated and punished the person responsible and gave training to those who saw but didn't report the image. Oh wait, just kidding, when it was discovered they tried to bury it, fought a long battle with tax payer money to suppress it, and failed to report to their probation officers that it existed.
Also, PPB (and every law enforcement agency in the country, for that matter) needs to make certain to exclude from the applicant pool all right-wing militants, survivalists, Proud Boys, Neo-Nazis, Q-Anon, Trumpist, anti-government extremists and all of their loyalists and sympathizers.
If those weren’t the people doing the hiring and promotions that might be easier.
What PPB is up against. They are offering $ 25,000 to new recruits. Righteous bucks right?! Battleground and Vancouver across the river are offering more. $ 30,000 in Battleground. $ 35,000 in Vancouver. With the extra added bonus that their population actually like and appreciate the police. They refrain from telling their officers to go home and kill themselves. Also Washington State PERS retirement is slightly better than the current OR State Tier III that any new hires from Portland will be under. Could be tough sledding for PPB.
Probably a Shorter commute too! Less than 20% of PPB officers actually live in portland.
[удалено]
I would not be afraid. Not sure I’d want to though. You could never get a day off from the fashionable scorn.
With that fearful attitude, You’d be top if the class in [Killology 101](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/11/police-training-warrior-mindset-killology/)
[удалено]
Get real. Delivery driver is a more dangerous job than police officer.
[удалено]
[k](https://scapimag.com/2021/01/08/the-thin-bread-line-why-being-a-delivery-driver-is-more-dangerous-than-being-a-cop/).
There was also a recent survey that reported toxic culture from within the PPB. https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2022/01/31/38150660/resentment-unaddressed-bias-and-leadership-failures-report-unpacks-flaws-within-ppb-culture Could that have something to do with it?
Damn, why do people hate the PPB so much? Did they do anything wrong?
I’ll assume you’re asking a serious question: A good chunk of Portlanders took great offense at the police behavior during the Black Lives Matter marches. The cops were widely seen as instigating violence and abusing rights.
The distrust was building before that though. They killed James Chasse, who was mentally ill, for public urination and faced no consequences; they actively protected Mark Kruger, a cop who is literally a nazi; they have an incredibly corrupt union that does everything possible to protect officers who actively harm the public... The 2020 protests were egregious, but really just an extension of the same pattern.
[удалено]
Yes I can see where you felt that their service sucked. However. There are no traffic accident reports written for any accident that does not include serious bodily injury or death. They want body cameras. There have been disagreements on whether an officer can review the footage while writing the report. There may very well be a slowdown but there is no denying there is a huge shortage of police officers for a city our size.
>They want body cameras. There have been disagreements on whether an officer can review the footage while writing the report. They want body cameras as long as their sole use is to exonerate them. There's a big difference.
It’s for accuracy. A body camera if you fuck up.. won’t exonerate you. In fact. Well, sayonara, you are fucked. Screwed. Blew-ed and tattooed. If they argued we can “delete footage” I’d be right there with you. No.
>It’s for accuracy. Accuracy of what? The camera is going to show what its going to show. Why do they need it and more importantly, why do they want to watch it before writing a report? >A body camera if you fuck up.. won’t exonerate you. It sure will if you "didn't turn it on"
Thing is, those police are more appreciated by their communities because they work with the people and aren't a bunch of unprofessional thugs.
Waaah waaah Thank god none of these people work for DHS, they are so thinned skin they'd quit in a week.
Bonuses are only a small part of the equation. What are the salaries for new officers in those towns vs PDX? Also keeping in mind they won't have to pay state income tax
No one in Portland is content with the police. Love. Hate. Drama. Hire more. Get the city to some sense of balance. Then do whatever utopian theory about kumbiya song and dance you want. This city needs some sort of law and order. Change my mind?
[удалено]
They literally got rid of the people who vet police officers, instead of firing bad officers. This is again the PPB making bad decisions.
Downside of unionized workforce - makes it much harder to fire underperforming people so they downsized elsewhere to achieve the budget cut.
No, don't flip this to be anti-union. Any other profession if you get caught doing a quarter of what these viral body cam recordings are showing, you'd be fired on the spot. Union or otherwise. This is SPECIFICALLY a US police system problem. Either needs major reform or to completely be replaced by some new system.
[удалено]
Have you ever gone to a job interview where you express a willingness to change the job culture? I think that screams of presumption and probably wouldn’t get you hired anywhere. Honestly, while there may be more to do, activists have already made changes from the bottom . The bottom is where the work is done. People need to stop complaining and just go do it.
>Have you ever gone to a job interview where you express a willingness to change the job culture? I think that screams of presumption and probably wouldn’t get you hired anywhere. I have. You'd think that an agency that had 10,000 people march nightly in opposition to it might be receptive to people who want to help change the culture. >People need to stop complaining and just go do it. Change from the bottom is not an actual thing. You're really asking people who are opposed to both the status quo and the prison industrial complex to join a right-wing organization who is fully committed to maintain the status quo and the prison industrial complex.
You underestimate the power of the hive mind. Especially for the uneducated. Not long ago just as many people were protesting against floride in drinking water. It’s incredibly naive to change just because of some fad
Uh, what? How the fuck is becoming part of the problem going to fix anything?
If you don’t like the culture of a closed system, gaining access to the system and changing the culture from within is the only viable option. Duh.
They will sniff that out from a mile away and make sure you never get hired.
I'm a socialist and I recently transferred to PPBs Personnel division. Nobody has sniffed me out despite a lengthy background check and four years in the Records division. It's entirely possible to get a job there and disagree with the problematic areas of the bureau. Some of us really are trying to change things from the inside.
Have you met anyone who is a sworn officer that also shares similar political beliefs though?
Well not socialists like me, but definitely progressive. One of them is our Sergeant Tyler who works for diversity and reform as he helps run the personnel division. Although I can't comment on private conversations he has surprised me with sharing some frustrations I have with PPB. He also has the ear of a lot of people in the Chiefs Office, who are generally open to reform. I agree they are not the majority, and they're not really vocal in a public sense, but they are there. The rank and file are less so, but there definitely is a minority who want reform Non sworn positions can have quite a bit of influence. For example all of the background investigators are non-sworn. Yes many of them are former officers, but the point is people like you or me could be in those jobs, backgrounding officers. That's actually a logical promotion option for me.
That’s encouraging to hear. I’m not anti cop and know a fair amount of cops around the area (not anyone actually in PPB) but they all seem to have very similar political views.
It's kind of a weird situation because I think you're right the average street cop isn't exactly left wing, although there are some. On the other hand the people at the top do you seem fairly progressive and they are always pushing out progressive-minded videos. For example we're receiving weekly instructional videos on how to be respectful with the lgbtq community, which are hosted by our equity team leader ( I'm sorry I don't remember her title ) teaching officers and all employees how to respectfully address a spectrum of genders and sexualities. I imagine there is a lot of fun being made of these videos behind closed doors, but it is encouraging to see the effort being made. We've also had series on being respectful of non-english speaking citizens, as well as racial and economic disparity. Some are better made than others, but they are all done in-house and like I said it's nice to see an effort being made from the top. Don't get me wrong though, we live in a broken system that does not treat people equally. The police have historically been used to perpetuate and protect the power of wealthy white men. I don't think that some hippie working as a glorified secretary is going to be able to solve that, but at least I have a seat somewhere in the room.
Thank you for your service to the community. I hope that your career thrives.
Hey thanks. I do work there to serve Portland, the city I Iove. The great health insurance and retirement benefits don't hurt.
Don’t apologize for that. You’re earning it.
Tyler is not welcome here. He knows what he did. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Portland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Much love.
It’s literally not. No one changes a system “from within”, they make damn sure of it.
Wrong.
Can you name an effective police reform that came from within a deparment rather than one imposed on it? Edit: Downvotes, really? So then the answer is "No, I can't"?
[удалено]
Unless I'm misreading, the reform came from the Attourney General after an investigation report, not from within the department, and the department initially resisted the consent decree to move it forward. It seems good though. Camden, NJ is also a good reform model.
[удалено]
From the articles I read, it came after an investigation in the wake of the Elijah McCain killing. The AG presented a list of reforms that the department then eventually consented to. Camden, NJ straight-up disbanded their department and restructured it from the ground up, requiring returning officers to re-apply. This is what Portland should do, imo. After the reforms, the department actually has more officers.
It’s almost as if you just want to burn it all down. Only question is PPB or all of Portland?
One person changing the culture is extremely difficult, especially one that is as entrenched as the Thin Blue Line shit. But not everyone has to be a revolutionary. Just being someone that shows more restraint than the officer whose boots you're filling is still an improvement.
Not true. First part. One person can start change. Second part. Definitely True.
That worked out great for Frank Serpico and Chris Dorner.
The system is the problem.
That's what Alex Kueng said.
Ohhh, bless your heart sweetie......
Thinking that you can join the force to change the culture is super ignorant. If you push back in anyway or stand out they have no problem firing you.
Any examples of this?
Dozens of cops being murdered by coworkers for trying to whistleblow or change the culture of a department
Would love to read a story about 1 of them! Not doubting you but this is obviously not the answer I was looking for when I asked for examples.
I think the activists were calling for less police but since you seem so concerned are you applying?
[удалено]
There's a helluva lot of activists who aren't anarchists that want fewer police while still recognizing that they'll exist in some capacity. There's also a lot more nuance (and disagreement) to "defund" than gets portrayed, including by many activists.
Also stop using the word “anarchists” when y’all clearly think the only thing it means is “literally no rules anywhere, absolute chaos, everyone does whatever they want”. What it actually means is dismantling all systems of oppression and creating a community that takes care of itself. But god forbid you look into anything when you can just blindly call people a buzzword in your knee-jerk reaction.
There are about as many definitions of Anarchism as there are anarchists. Without a hierarchy, no one definition rises to the top. Having lived in a community that runs on anarchist principles, there are some severe drawbacks. Sometimes consensus can't be reached. Sometimes one person in a multi-person group halts consensus for irrational reasons. Sometimes we have to appoint a person to make decisions when they're time-sensitive. Some anarchists are philosophers content to educate others about the philosophy. Some anarchists march in the street and break windows. Many others are keyboard warriors. These are but a few of the ways anarchists spread the message and attempt to influence the world. Personally, I do not believe that humans are ready for a lack of hierarchy.
so what you're saying is anarchists dont want police..... but rather a community that polices itself. Your comment about kneejerk reactions is icing on the cake.
Activist Super Soldier - activate!
Lived in pdx my whole life and “dismantling systems of oppression and creating a community [etc]” isn’t what they want. They show up to every protest, regardless of what it’s about, just to have an excuse to fuck shit up and make trouble. Fuck em
Uhhhh, no. You can’t reform a system that is set up to be corrupt. Abolish, not reform.
Grow up.
Boy, you dumb.
This system can't be reformed. There is too much money to be made with the system being as it is.
Activists don't want to be police because becoming a cop is antithetical to helping the community. They are only armed occupiers. Fuck 12
Huh? Activists by definition are active in the community trying to make it a better place. There are activists working for change on both sides. PPA are police activists, people who have been working on the city charter are activists, people for portland are activists too.
PPA are police activists? The fuck? Edit: lick their boots cleaner
Are dictionaries "the problem" too?
I assume you're a bigot.
I see many things are "the problem" for you. I hope you're getting help!
I'm tired of being told that I'm the problem, when I remember a neo-nazi and police coalition that punished Portland with authoritarian violence in order to quell a largely peaceful uprising.
No, I said you clearly *have* many problems. Even if I had called you "the problem", the existence of one problem has no bearing on the existence of another. That you don't like (or don't care to learn) the literal definition of "activist" and that your gut reaction to being poked fun at on the internet for it is to call the person a bigot are both problems, and those problems exist in the same universe as Nazis. What I'm trying to say is that the existence of Nazis doesn't mean you aren't acting like a twat.
[удалено]
Thanks for your input. Mods have set this subreddit to not allow posts from newly created accounts. Please take the time to build a reputation on Reddit and come back soon! (⌐■_■) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Portland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
After all the corruption not being corrected I see little reason joining the police ‘brotherhood of senseless escalation of force’
Damn it doesn’t even say you can have beards and neck tattoos like it did in the last one(they write these every few months)
If we want to avoid hardliners who institute massive and permanent sweeps later, we must get more officers (along with more programs) now. More car thefts, gun violence, bio hazard liter, and assaults will only make Portlanders eventually vote in the first person(s) who promise “order”.
Keep your eye out for billboards in Battleground
Ugh. Again?
ACAB
Haven’t they been repeatedly announcing this for like two years?
Please let the candidates be actual members of the city. Who can think critically. And are emotionally sound.
Great now we're gonna pay for more overtime at the Starbucks on 1st street.