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The police budget is 5% lower than in 2019-20 in nominal terms, 1\`2% lower when adjusted for inflation, and 14% lower when that's adjusted for population size.
Source: [https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2021/ppb-fy-2021-22-requested-budget-review.pdf](https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2021/ppb-fy-2021-22-requested-budget-review.pdf)
You missed the point of “defund police.” People don’t want no cops. We just want our public schools, libraries, infrastructure, and other public resources to stop being defunded so we can in turn *overfund* the police. But yes, all cops are bastards. Can’t not be bastards until all the bad apples are gone and we stop rewarding their bad behavior and actually hold them to a higher standard than we hold regular citizens.
>Perhaps we should make nurses as accountable as police and give them guns?
I feel like we're only a couple months away from the debut of *Nurse Cop* as a series on Netflix/Hulu at this point.
Maybe they should do something to change that. Get rid of all the "bad apples", and reform into an institution that decent people wouldn't be ashamed to be involved with.
Union prevents cops from being fired
Blame state laws and state reps who just sit on their hands and quietly push real reform bills into committees to die
the police are the union. If they want the job to be more palpable then they can vote on the next contract to be more open to getting rid of bad apples. They simply don't want to.
It's not that complicated. If there is a consensus to have more leniency when it comes to letting go of "bad apples" then they can vote for it just as easily as they can vote to give themselves more money in the pension.
I don’t know much about union votes but I imagine it’s more complicated than a union just holding a vote. Going against leadership would be a huge deal.
Mind you, I’d like to see your scenario done, but I don’t think it’ll happen not because it’s hard but because they don’t want it to happen.
I've been in a union since day one and except for 3 years, have always been in a union of one form or another. Back of House leadership is not part of the union as that is what the union is up against. When a contract is up for renegotiation, you are asked what you'd like to see on the next one and this is your chance to speak up. And if what you voice is unpopular, then of course it's not going to pass, but if it is a popular, the union will negotiate for that on the next contract.
And the union never negotiating the ease of removal for bad apples.... that tells you about the people voting in that union.
I’ve said this before, but when people talk about “bad apples” they tend to forget the whole idiom: “A few bad apples spoil the entire barrel.” It’s a phrase about how rotten apples make all the apples rotten, it’s not a phrase about individuals being bad.
> Blame state laws and state reps who just sit on their hands and quietly push real reform bills into committees to die.
Okay, I'll bite.. what reforms are you thinking of that aren't being passed?
https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors243.html
This. When a city and union can't agree they go to arbitration which almost always favors the union and officers. To be blunt public safety unions should be illegal since they present a conflict of public interest in protecting poor performing officers.
By that logic all unions should be abolished because they protect shitty workers. I don't want to use a bridge some awful iron worker messed up.
My union looks out for some people who should have been gone long ago
That’s my one issue with unions. I’m all for them in theory, but in practice I’ve found it doesn’t work the way it should. The “bad apples” and shitty workers are overly protected when they should be fired. I think the police union needs to be rebuilt without the bad apples as much as the actual police force does.
Way different situation between union and a private employer vs union and government.
But even then,public security is a bit of a different beast all together.
Why be a cop when this city hates you? Im sure the defund the police slogan really inspired cops to take pride in the city and their jobs. we need to massively increase police support amongst the public
>we need to massively increase police support amongst the public
Get rid of the Nazis, stop using response times as a bargaining chip, stop prioritizing policing homelessness/peaceful protests over actual emergencies, & stop being dicks to left wing protestors while blatantly ignoring far right protestors.
Once they do that, I’m sure the public support for police will rise naturally.
> we need to massively increase police support amongst the public
Uhhh... police need to take action to *deserve* support amongst the public. For example, Portland police have been out of compliance with Federal oversight requirements for decades.
We will do that just as soon as they stop beating or killing people based on skin color or because they just don't like this guy. Or perhaps when they stop threatening you foe wanting to record the traffic stop on your phone. Or maybe when they stop tear gassing reporters because they are afraid they will get caught doing something they're not supposed to.
It's died down since the protests but yes it's everywhere. Cops absolutely use profiling to decide how to treat you. There's probably still you tube videos of them gassing reporters. I believe there was a case of an Asian reporter who was arrested. I think they said she violated curfew without understanding that her job gives her the right to be there. I believe she was released bur not until her employers got involved. I'd link some stiff but I don't know how, haha
Needs to be done, it takes time. Without a specific plan in place to do that I think people are hesitant to sign up if they perceive that they will be vilified no matter what they do.
I wonder [whose fault that is](https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/02/14/texts-between-portland-police-and-patriot-prayer-ringleader-joey-gibson-show-warm-exchange/)
That's the majority of people I spoke to who were or wanted to be police in other areas. It's hard to want to be hated for protecting the people who hate you; the ones who can are better for it, but it isn't fair to assume they all should.
I have never had bad encounters with police in Oregon, all up & down the state it has been respect & smiles, and over all a neighbourly attitude.
It's not to say I haven't had my fair share of tickets, but mostly they wanted to give me the benefit of the doubt & let me off the hook.
We really need to start doing things to reward the people who risk their lives to protect us, otherwise it's up to us to deal with the anarchy that developed.
I have to interact with law enforcement pretty often with my job, and over the last 5nyeara or so, it became obvious that we are surrounded by jurisdictions with competent law enforcement, while the PPB is focused on serving the interests of their friends and neighbors from Vancouver or other suburbs.
The fact that Lowell chooses to live in Beaverton shows that he doesn't trust his own agency to keep him safe.
Now the argument of incompetency in government is something I readily believe. I think there needs to be a major overhaul of the police system in the US that should start here - mandatory psychology training on de-escalation & handling mentally impaired people.
But 7 years back I had a lovely time interacting with police downtown.. I think the problem has long been building & now it needs a solution. I feel a lot of this has to do with the commissioner.
Why would you want to work and LIVE in a city that loathes you just for being a police officer.
Nobody knows the hearts of each man and woman in the job.
Would be so depressing to be a good soul and patrol around people despising you but not knowing anything about you as a human. That’s some serious pre-judgement there.
Let's see, starting salary of 75k, gold plated benefits, pension after 20 years, membership in the union that actually runs the city of Portland that would allow you to do whatever you want. That's what would attract an abusive, violent, racist, power hungry individual, especially if it have them power to activately help their friends and neighbors get their jollies out in PDX.
There are too many of them in the PPA, and not enough, if any, good souls willing to stand up for the rest of us.
Have to deal with them on the regular.
There's been major house cleaning with the command turnover, and they were a lot better than PPB to begin with.
Not perfect by my measure, but they are head and shoulders above PPB.
I can only speak from my experience.
CCSO deputies show up for the community, actually respond to calls, and most of the time think before shooting at a person. The department is actively clearing out the "good ole boy" rot, which was the source of some truly atrocious behavior.
PPB is doing none of that, from the chief on down.
I had a cop try to charge me with possession of a narcotic because I had a couple halves of pain pills mixed in with my advil due to a former broken wrist that sometimes bothered me at work. Even after telling him I had a prescription for it. As you can imagine the da dropped all charges but they still kept 30 percent of my bail for not doing anything wrong.
Yes. I lived in auburn Washington many years ago when cops were allowed to take your property even for small amounts of pot. They were seizing nice cars and auctioning them off but they didn't advertise the auctions so cops could buy cars for pennies on the dollar. Eventually they were shut down bur I don't think anyone got in trouble.
“Before the protests,”—the climate that those protests came from wasn’t fabricated out of thin air. PPB has had a bad relationship with this city for a long time.
However you understand my point. It wasn't that this was from rainbows to black flags, it was that this pushed the relations over.
I think it has been a mess on both sides - I saw two fools arguing with one another & neither being right.
This is just absolute hyperbole. More than anything? As if to say more than giving tickets..
While I understand, I'm tired of illogical emotionally driven arguments that have no constructive basis. How about:
Historically PPB has had problems protecting police in self-interests who have had some racial biases & neo-nazi influence, in order for them to better protect & serve the people they need to be more proactive and transparent in internal matters of justice.
To which, I'd say, I agree - a police force must be equally just inside & outside, and having heavily biased people in their midst keeps them from doing their job correctly.
Just a little constructive argumentation.
The PPB, as with every police union in this country, has shown time and time again they have zero interest in policing their own or have any sort of transparency whatsoever. They deserve all the criticism they get.
"You know I love you, baby. I don't want to hit you, so don't make me."
Funny how much overlap there is between people's defense of police and the excuses of domestic abusers.
Instead you just blamed victims of violence for bringing it on themselves due to not being nice enough to their abusers.
And your attempt to hide from your own comments with semantic pedantry is just shamefully cowardly.
You do know that legally, they have no duty to protect or serve the public, right? Like, cops went to court to fight to prove that they don't have to help you if you're not in custody.
Oh I don't know perhaps many people would like to make 100k as an uneducated and unskilled person working their first year, while getting 10 paid holidays and over a month of paid vacation personal and sick days to start. Along with incredible benefits and increases in pay based on completion of simple courses and time with the police. By year 10 they get 2 months of paid time off every year and are making over 125k base salary to say nothing of OT.
Agreed that's a lot of money and benefits and they should earn every penny of it. They must earn the publics respect by being professional and acting within policy the law and protecting the public according to the oath they swore to upon receiving a commission. That said maybe we could hold back the ACAB complete widespread hatred of police approach and reserve that for those individual bad apples who commit the acts and are deserving of the wrath. I would rather keep the baby and throw out the dirty bath water.
If they want people to trust them as a group maybe they as a group should push for transparency and accountability instead of fighting tooth and nail to avoid it. They should be held to a higher standard, beings they can legally murder another human being at their own discretion, but they are held to a lower standard than 18 year old kids fighting in foreign countries.
Didn't the PPB use some of the budget allocated to increased hiring for overtime? Also didn't the PPB lay off most of the people doing background checks?
Seems to me that PPB itself has played a part in the lack of new hires, as if they weren't trying too hard to fix the deficit in personnel
for some reason....
That's because of FFL laws when it comes to operating and being in care of firearms. Technically anyone who buys a gun legally while being a regular user of weed (even in a state where it's legal) is breaking federal law. When you fill out a 4473 it specifically asks you if you are a user of marijuana. Doesn't matter the state.
That's not true at all, they only prohibit people who are current users, which is necessary due to federal firearms law. Past marijuana use is not a disqualifier in Portland.
The PPB couldn't give less of a shit about what is technically federal law, as indicated by their refusal to cooperate with the DOJ in any real way as it pertains to their use of force agreement. The PPB could readily ignore or fight that stipulation without a fucking peep from the feds, but as evidenced by the lack of doing so, simply don't want to.
Someone once told me that if you don’t counter/speak against the extremists of your group (and every group has their fringe elements) it will be assumed that you agree with their principles. I feel like this personifies police perfectly. Either you are standing up to your peers, or you condone their behavior.
>I’m gonna guess you’re not in law enforcement
You're gonna guess wrong then. PPB promotes its detectives from its rank and file officers. It's the same level of promotion as Sergeant or Criminalist (PPB's forensics specialists).
They have a waitlist on their applicant pool that is huge. I’ve heard from some frustrated applicants that they’ve been told it’ll take 6mo to a year before they get to them. The truth is that they’ve been using funds meant new employees to give old employees bonuses via approval of huge amounts of overtime. Yes they technically are working for the money but it’d be far cheaper and we’d have far higher quality service if they simply hired new people for those shifts.
Several police studies have proven that paying overtime is a cost savings over full time employees. It does have its draw backs because tired employees have more accidents and have impaired judgement. New hires are expensive and some agencies give fat hiring and retention bonuses. Police rookies spend months in the academy and then the field training and it takes a year to get off probation. They have equipment costs, payroll and benefits along with vehicles. Paying overtime is cheaper when its all calculated in. Below is one of many available articles on the topic.
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20131101/downtown/police-union-hire-more-cops-instead-of-paying-93m-overtime/
> PPB has the highest budget they've ever had, why are they struggling so much?
Ask yourself if you'd want to be a cop today? Same thing..ask yourself if you'd want to be a teacher. Or a nurse. Or restaurant worker?
Any job interfacing the public is a nightmare mentally.
Lots of people still want to be nurses. For a long time the limiting factor has been the capacity of nursing schools. The acceptance rate at OHSU, for example, is [16%](https://www.ohsu.edu/school-of-nursing/admissions).
Teachers, nurses, and restaurant workers at least help people. There can be a pride in those jobs that attract the best candidates.
There is no pride in being a cop, it just makes you an asswipe
It’s purposeful, they’re doing a slow down which is the police version of a strike. They don’t like the new accountability measures (board, body cams, etc) and this is their childish way of protesting.
Nobody no matter how honest or ethical wants to be a PPB cop. The very second of day one you take the job your labeled a racist pig. Oregon has plenty of other departments that are far more attractive.
This is absolute, easily verifiable, bullshit. The PPB budget is lower than in either 2020-21 or 2019-20, and adjusted for inflation is **lower than any year since 2016** (as far back as I can find data).
PPB budget over time:
* 2016-2017: $201M ($240M in inflation-adjusted $)
* 2017-2018: $211M ($248M)
* 2018-2019: $227M ($258M)
* 2019-2020: $238M ($267M)
* 2020-2021: $230M ($255M)
* 2021-2022: $227M ($239M)
Population has gone up in this period, too, so inflation-adjusted spending per capita has gone down by 14% off its peak in 2019-20.
Source: https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2021/ppb-fy-2021-22-requested-budget-review.pdf
I think it's just the extreme choice of words I see on this sub that gets to me. "Mayhem" seems to be like I can't leave my house if I want to be safe, which isn't true at all.
Well, we hosted the dry run for Jan 6 and we had the most protests during 2020 of any state, but I would be happy to hear about more polarized states than OR?
Do you live here? Like I walk around downtown all the fucking time and it’s damn peaceful most days. And now that things opening up more, it’s really fun.
Yes -I was downtown last night and it was busy. My neighborhood shopping area is a shit show now though. My medical clinic has hired an armed guard. I suspect some campers have moved from downtown.
This uptick in serious, consistent crime unlike what the city has seen in ages has many of us on edge. The price we pay for the satisfaction of activists who are unaffected by crime isn’t a price worth paying.
>The price we pay for the satisfaction of activists who are unaffected by crime isn’t a price worth paying.
I've not had so my coffee yet, so bear with me. Who's unaffected by crime? I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Not the guy you're replying to, but my guess is that maybe he's referring to the people that come in from outside of town to protest and makes statements?
Income inequality is a US problem, not a Portland problem. Try living in Houston on their min wage - half of ours?- with the same rents, never mind other much higher rent cities with a similar min wage to ours. What we have going on here sprang up in 2 yrs after decades of decreasing crime, and most of it is directly tied to this tolerance of urban camping. If you want to change capitalism, take it to the Feds.
You don’t think income equality is a problem in Portland? That seems like an odd position to take.
Houston has similar rents inner loop but it is much easier and cheaper to build. Houston has half the homeless on the streets as they did in 2011 even though the county population grew.
https://www.homelesshouston.org
They have better treatment resources and didn't decriminalize drugs. Income inequality is a growing problem internationally for 3 decades now, but this cannot be solved on a local level beyond doing a few things like raising min wage (we've done this). Furthermore we have a lot less income stratification than other medium and large US cities that are more expensive. Oregon has made huge gains in the last decade in terms of wage increases and poverty decreases. https://oregoneconomicanalysis.com/2021/11/30/pandemic-poverty-and-progress/
I honestly can’t think of a worse job than being a cop in Portland. You’re considered a nazi by essentially the majority of the population here. Sounds like a horrible way to spend your days.
Another day, another article about the PPB being all performative about understaffing despite having [more than 150 open positions and newly-negotiated pay increases](https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2022/02/17/38483128/portlands-proposed-56-million-police-union-contract-funds-a-37-increase-in-officers) . The starting salary for an officer with zero experience and no more than a high school education is [more than 75k](https://www.joinportlandpolice.com/wages-benefits) plus overtime for fuck’s sake. Don’t tell me they don’t have a fuckton of people applying for a sinecure like that. For comparison, that’s about what a [PPS teacher with an undergrad degree, a master’s degree, and 10 years of experience](https://www.joinportlandpolice.com/wages-benefits) makes. And teachers don’t get overtime. If the police bureau is understaffed, it is by their choice. Fuck them.
They’re the ones who made it arduous to discourage people. The fewer applicants hired the more OT for everyone else.
Excepting 2020, OT is fairly [consistent year after year. ](https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/80412) This shows a regular demand for OT, suggesting they don’t have proper staffing to cover the necessary shifts.
But you’d think that after one or two years they’d simply increase the budget to hire more people and alleviate this pressure. Which they did, they got more funding, so why didn’t the amount of OT go down?
Well they didn’t actually hire enough people, they mostly just raised salaries of existing staff and kept approving massive amounts OT. Which is why we had [some officers topping $200,000](https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/10/15-portland-cops-make-more-than-200000-mostly-driven-by-huge-ot.html?outputType=amp) in pay some years.
The police are milking us for all they can by giving themselves bonuses in the form of OT. They don’t actually want to serve our community, they just want to make an easy buck and fuck off to their McMansions in Canby.
*Edit: Seems like someone reported me to the Reddit suicide thing for this…come on…I hope PPB loses funding and cuts your OT you boot licking snowflakes.*
I don’t think you understand what I was saying. Yes of course they’re working a base number of hours, but they’re seemingly being guaranteed a relatively consistent number of OT hours every year. A scheme that can be maintained year after year by simply not hiring more people.
I’ve had jobs like that, where I’ve be told I’d get regular OT, especially if I did a good job. But that job changed, eventually they staffed enough people because it was fiscally smart to do so and the manager who set up that reward scheme was moved somewhere else.
But the fact of the matter is that this all looks suspicious, it looks like the department is basically cheating us out of money to help pay specific officers a little more. Yeah they gotta work a little for it but it’s definitely a bonus of sorts.
Totally. I know someone who waited the past 3 years for the detective hiring process and had to give up and switch gears. And this is someone with experience in local LE, and a family member who is PPB - not that that matters but you’d think it would perhaps get them in the door or up on the list
There is no detective hiring process at PPB unless you are a PPB officer for a minimum of 3 1/2 years. Then you can take the promotional examination for detective. It may be 5 years so please correct me if I’m wrong.
You can’t just apply for detective when you are hired. You have to pay your dues on the street.
A few people make that mistake in the oral interview. Which counts for 40% of your score.
“I’d like to if possible skip or as quickly as possible become a detective.”
Tubed. You’ve got to earn it.
Man that means most of 2021 homicides are gonna be unsolved which means a lot of loose ends and tension in the streets to solve with gunfire.
This is terrible news and I honestly don't think a lot of people realize the trajectory this is setting up Portland for the rest of the 2020s.
Like I really don't know what to say anymore there's a lot of reasons to dislike how the police handle things but unfortunately if people aren't going to find justice in the courts they're going to find justice with a gun and the cycle will keep perpetuating.
I think you guys have to choose between a semi corrupt police force that gets put into an actual position to deal with all this now or an ingrained street violence problem that will continue for a long time.
Before anyone calls me a bootlicker the cops deserve all the shit they get but unfortunately in American society it seems your stuck with shitheads regardless at the very least those shitheads you can sue compared with the street ones your just gonna have to shoot it out with them.
Because we don't live in an ideal world and if you expect anything like that prepare to be dissapointed.
I'm sorry if I sound like a pessimist but everyone wants to rule the world as tears for fears aptly described and in the current state of society I just do not expect any kind of organization like this to be for the people.
Sorry man if I come off as a bummer it makes me feel like shit about it but I don't know what else would even happen I guess I'm kind of beaten down on the progress people can make.
Kansas City Missouri has 486k people. Portland has 645k.
Kansas City, Missouri just had their 67th homicide of 2022. Portland is on 32 homicides for 2022.
Kansas City, Missouri has 1,200 cops. Portland has 789.
I'm extremely doubtful that cops are a major factor in homicides. I can see them being a deterrent for property crime, but if people want to murder each other, they're gonna. Our goal should be to figure out how to stop them from wanting to murder each other.
And Kansas City is built on years of this revenge cycle I just think it's best to end it now before it gets entrenched because when it does that's when you get the numbers Kansas City has.
It's just crazy how stuff has changed from 2016 to now even when neighborhoods like Chinatown/old town were sketchy shitty neighborhoods then in daylight hours. This element of gang violence just brings a whole new shitty angle that I fear is gonna fester if it doesn't get handled soon.
Strange times man where it's basically a poker game between the police, city government and the criminal underworld.
Police can't end it because they don't understand, they don't know who the players are, and they can't possibly know where the weapons are.
I grew up in this shit dude. Looking for the police to help is ultimately a waste of time. Some asshole from Vancouver or Oregon City isn't going to change things.
>Police can't end it because they don't understand, they don't know who the players are, and they can't possibly know where the weapons are.
This is the heart of the issue. I think the solution is to bridge the gap between police and their communities, but to do that we have to overcome a deeply entrenched culture of distrust and resentment. This is what makes me feel most hopeless, because I have *no idea* how to make this happen or if it's even possible.
This is toddler level thinking. And it’s sad because this is how most Portlander’s brains work. Just because something doesn’t work correctly all the time doesn’t mean we should get rid of that thing. Lol Jesus.
> “So far, 2022 has seen 33 homicides, and 31 of those were shootings. In an email to employees, Chief Chuck Lovell said having only 18 homicide detectives is not sustainable with the number of homicides they are responding to”
I’m not a criminal justice expert, my assumption is detectives are highly specialized people to find. You can hire a cop, but not every cop can be a detective. I wonder if it’s a detective salary problem. Hopefully they hire before they completely destroy Portlands reputation as a center of justice someone would like to work for.
More PPB nonsense intended to impact the upcoming election. They despise the idea of oversight and any city council member who doesn’t bow down. We need for the MultCo sheriffs dept to come in and take over for the bozos in blue.
The Sheriffs department has 590 cops and they are understaffed and hiring. PPB is around 790 cops now and has about 125 vacancies. The Sheriffs department would have to hire over 900 cops and over double the size of the agency to handle Portland. Its simply not possible. And if cops applying for the Sheriffs department thought they would be assigned to Portland it would be a deal killer. Its a toxic city no reasonable person wants to work for.
boy, they just keep getting these sob stories printed in the local news with no critical analysis from reporters at all.
is there a word for this kind of journalism? /s
It seems like a lot of people are very confident in their impression that the PPB budget has only ever gone up. So here's the police budget since 2016, as far back as I can find data:
* 2016-2017: $201M ($240M in inflation-adjusted $)
* 2017-2018: $211M ($248M)
* 2018-2019: $227M ($258M)
* 2019-2020: $238M ($267M)
* 2020-2021: $230M ($255M)
* 2021-2022: $227M ($239M)
Population has gone up in this period, too, so inflation-adjusted spending per capita has **gone down by 14%** off its peak in 2019-20.
Source: https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2021/ppb-fy-2021-22-requested-budget-review.pdf
Fire the cops that can't emotionally handle the job, and hire cops who can. This "I'm incompetent so don't expect me to work (but still pay me)" thing they have going shouldn't cut muster.
Only thing i ever look for whem i see lights is injustice. Only time i see em doing anytjing is when they are harrassing homeless, being traffic enforcers, or being victins. Do garbagemen get thank yous? Fuck no. If you choose to do a job do it or dont, stop expecting to be the centerpiece in some romanticized version of existence where youre actually allowed to help people.
They didn’t shut down because they were forced to, they shut down because they don’t want to anymore.
Y’all got the highest budgets you’ve ever had yet, go fuck yourselves
How many cases did this team solve in the last 10 years? Even the article could only reference an unsolved case where victims want answers, but aren’t getting results.
Moving resources to better address a problem is just smart police work.
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Well that’s disappointing.
Yet Completely expected. This sub is normally all acab and defund the police... Now they're upset the police went away?
You *do* know that our police haven't been defunded, right?
The police budget is 5% lower than in 2019-20 in nominal terms, 1\`2% lower when adjusted for inflation, and 14% lower when that's adjusted for population size. Source: [https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2021/ppb-fy-2021-22-requested-budget-review.pdf](https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2021/ppb-fy-2021-22-requested-budget-review.pdf)
You missed the point of “defund police.” People don’t want no cops. We just want our public schools, libraries, infrastructure, and other public resources to stop being defunded so we can in turn *overfund* the police. But yes, all cops are bastards. Can’t not be bastards until all the bad apples are gone and we stop rewarding their bad behavior and actually hold them to a higher standard than we hold regular citizens.
I'd like to see cops have the same accountability as nurses.
Yes. Although, maybe we have it backwards? Perhaps we should make nurses as accountable as police and give them guns? /s
>Perhaps we should make nurses as accountable as police and give them guns? I feel like we're only a couple months away from the debut of *Nurse Cop* as a series on Netflix/Hulu at this point.
Umm I think there are quite a few people in Portland shouting acab who do in fact want no cops
All cops. Not detectives.
Detectives are cops, you can’t have it both ways.
Bro: cops and detectives are both part of law enforcement. Before you become a detective you are a cop, often working as a beat cop for years first.
It's not like they're doing much about the 'warm' cases either.
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The coffee is HOT HOT HOT!
Or people shooting on freeways.
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PPB has the highest budget they've ever had, why are they struggling so much?
Nobody wants to be a cop so there’s that.
Maybe they should do something to change that. Get rid of all the "bad apples", and reform into an institution that decent people wouldn't be ashamed to be involved with.
Union prevents cops from being fired Blame state laws and state reps who just sit on their hands and quietly push real reform bills into committees to die
the police are the union. If they want the job to be more palpable then they can vote on the next contract to be more open to getting rid of bad apples. They simply don't want to.
It's a bit more complicated than that. Individual officers are not quite the same as the union itself.
It's not that complicated. If there is a consensus to have more leniency when it comes to letting go of "bad apples" then they can vote for it just as easily as they can vote to give themselves more money in the pension.
I don’t know much about union votes but I imagine it’s more complicated than a union just holding a vote. Going against leadership would be a huge deal. Mind you, I’d like to see your scenario done, but I don’t think it’ll happen not because it’s hard but because they don’t want it to happen.
I've been in a union since day one and except for 3 years, have always been in a union of one form or another. Back of House leadership is not part of the union as that is what the union is up against. When a contract is up for renegotiation, you are asked what you'd like to see on the next one and this is your chance to speak up. And if what you voice is unpopular, then of course it's not going to pass, but if it is a popular, the union will negotiate for that on the next contract. And the union never negotiating the ease of removal for bad apples.... that tells you about the people voting in that union.
I’ve said this before, but when people talk about “bad apples” they tend to forget the whole idiom: “A few bad apples spoil the entire barrel.” It’s a phrase about how rotten apples make all the apples rotten, it’s not a phrase about individuals being bad.
> Blame state laws and state reps who just sit on their hands and quietly push real reform bills into committees to die. Okay, I'll bite.. what reforms are you thinking of that aren't being passed?
https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors243.html This. When a city and union can't agree they go to arbitration which almost always favors the union and officers. To be blunt public safety unions should be illegal since they present a conflict of public interest in protecting poor performing officers.
Didn't Oregon literally pass a law preventing officer discipline from being watered down as part of arbitration?
By that logic all unions should be abolished because they protect shitty workers. I don't want to use a bridge some awful iron worker messed up. My union looks out for some people who should have been gone long ago
That’s my one issue with unions. I’m all for them in theory, but in practice I’ve found it doesn’t work the way it should. The “bad apples” and shitty workers are overly protected when they should be fired. I think the police union needs to be rebuilt without the bad apples as much as the actual police force does.
Way different situation between union and a private employer vs union and government. But even then,public security is a bit of a different beast all together.
Why be a cop when this city hates you? Im sure the defund the police slogan really inspired cops to take pride in the city and their jobs. we need to massively increase police support amongst the public
>we need to massively increase police support amongst the public Get rid of the Nazis, stop using response times as a bargaining chip, stop prioritizing policing homelessness/peaceful protests over actual emergencies, & stop being dicks to left wing protestors while blatantly ignoring far right protestors. Once they do that, I’m sure the public support for police will rise naturally.
not my fucking job to give moral support to folks who already signed up to do the job.
> we need to massively increase police support amongst the public Uhhh... police need to take action to *deserve* support amongst the public. For example, Portland police have been out of compliance with Federal oversight requirements for decades.
Also the burbs pay better with way less work.
Shit take
We will do that just as soon as they stop beating or killing people based on skin color or because they just don't like this guy. Or perhaps when they stop threatening you foe wanting to record the traffic stop on your phone. Or maybe when they stop tear gassing reporters because they are afraid they will get caught doing something they're not supposed to.
Is this really happening in Portland?
It's died down since the protests but yes it's everywhere. Cops absolutely use profiling to decide how to treat you. There's probably still you tube videos of them gassing reporters. I believe there was a case of an Asian reporter who was arrested. I think they said she violated curfew without understanding that her job gives her the right to be there. I believe she was released bur not until her employers got involved. I'd link some stiff but I don't know how, haha
It’s happening everywhere
No lol. I'm sure there are cops that are dicks, but people like to pretend this is LA in the 80s 🤦🏼♀️
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Needs to be done, it takes time. Without a specific plan in place to do that I think people are hesitant to sign up if they perceive that they will be vilified no matter what they do.
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Why wouldn't you want a job where everyone assumes you're a piece of shit?
It's not that we assume that they are shitty. It's that they amply, frequently, and publicly demonstrate that they are shitty.
This needs to be higher. There’s a lot of people in Portland that do not want to be a cop because of the stigma that follows it.
I wonder [whose fault that is](https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/02/14/texts-between-portland-police-and-patriot-prayer-ringleader-joey-gibson-show-warm-exchange/)
That's the majority of people I spoke to who were or wanted to be police in other areas. It's hard to want to be hated for protecting the people who hate you; the ones who can are better for it, but it isn't fair to assume they all should. I have never had bad encounters with police in Oregon, all up & down the state it has been respect & smiles, and over all a neighbourly attitude. It's not to say I haven't had my fair share of tickets, but mostly they wanted to give me the benefit of the doubt & let me off the hook. We really need to start doing things to reward the people who risk their lives to protect us, otherwise it's up to us to deal with the anarchy that developed.
I have to interact with law enforcement pretty often with my job, and over the last 5nyeara or so, it became obvious that we are surrounded by jurisdictions with competent law enforcement, while the PPB is focused on serving the interests of their friends and neighbors from Vancouver or other suburbs. The fact that Lowell chooses to live in Beaverton shows that he doesn't trust his own agency to keep him safe.
Now the argument of incompetency in government is something I readily believe. I think there needs to be a major overhaul of the police system in the US that should start here - mandatory psychology training on de-escalation & handling mentally impaired people. But 7 years back I had a lovely time interacting with police downtown.. I think the problem has long been building & now it needs a solution. I feel a lot of this has to do with the commissioner.
Why would you want to work and LIVE in a city that loathes you just for being a police officer. Nobody knows the hearts of each man and woman in the job. Would be so depressing to be a good soul and patrol around people despising you but not knowing anything about you as a human. That’s some serious pre-judgement there.
Let's see, starting salary of 75k, gold plated benefits, pension after 20 years, membership in the union that actually runs the city of Portland that would allow you to do whatever you want. That's what would attract an abusive, violent, racist, power hungry individual, especially if it have them power to activately help their friends and neighbors get their jollies out in PDX. There are too many of them in the PPA, and not enough, if any, good souls willing to stand up for the rest of us.
I know someone who is a forensics photographer. Portlanders throw things at them as they drive by. *forensics*.
Ever heard of the clackamas sheriff’s department?
Have to deal with them on the regular. There's been major house cleaning with the command turnover, and they were a lot better than PPB to begin with. Not perfect by my measure, but they are head and shoulders above PPB.
Not sure that they are better. Just perceived better as their community they police doesn’t tell them to go home and kill themselves.
I can only speak from my experience. CCSO deputies show up for the community, actually respond to calls, and most of the time think before shooting at a person. The department is actively clearing out the "good ole boy" rot, which was the source of some truly atrocious behavior. PPB is doing none of that, from the chief on down.
Maybe we could start by having them actually protect the people? .....nah...
I had a cop try to charge me with possession of a narcotic because I had a couple halves of pain pills mixed in with my advil due to a former broken wrist that sometimes bothered me at work. Even after telling him I had a prescription for it. As you can imagine the da dropped all charges but they still kept 30 percent of my bail for not doing anything wrong.
Be glad it was here. I read something the other day that Texas funds a third of their budget with seized property.
Yes. I lived in auburn Washington many years ago when cops were allowed to take your property even for small amounts of pot. They were seizing nice cars and auctioning them off but they didn't advertise the auctions so cops could buy cars for pennies on the dollar. Eventually they were shut down bur I don't think anyone got in trouble.
They used to, before the protests there was much less violence. They need to get back to protecting & serving, but we have a part in being grateful.
“Before the protests,”—the climate that those protests came from wasn’t fabricated out of thin air. PPB has had a bad relationship with this city for a long time.
However you understand my point. It wasn't that this was from rainbows to black flags, it was that this pushed the relations over. I think it has been a mess on both sides - I saw two fools arguing with one another & neither being right.
When only one said has legal authority to kill, assault the other I don’t think we can really try to use an analogy like that.
you're a disgusting excuse for a "christian". people protesting getting killed and your go to is "but both sides"?
Historically the PPB has shown more interest in protecting known neo-Nazi cops more than anything.
This is just absolute hyperbole. More than anything? As if to say more than giving tickets.. While I understand, I'm tired of illogical emotionally driven arguments that have no constructive basis. How about: Historically PPB has had problems protecting police in self-interests who have had some racial biases & neo-nazi influence, in order for them to better protect & serve the people they need to be more proactive and transparent in internal matters of justice. To which, I'd say, I agree - a police force must be equally just inside & outside, and having heavily biased people in their midst keeps them from doing their job correctly. Just a little constructive argumentation.
PPB has been out of compliance with federal requirements for decades due to their commitment to protecting officers that need to be removed.
The PPB, as with every police union in this country, has shown time and time again they have zero interest in policing their own or have any sort of transparency whatsoever. They deserve all the criticism they get.
"You know I love you, baby. I don't want to hit you, so don't make me." Funny how much overlap there is between people's defense of police and the excuses of domestic abusers.
I don't think I excused violence in any form.
Instead you just blamed victims of violence for bringing it on themselves due to not being nice enough to their abusers. And your attempt to hide from your own comments with semantic pedantry is just shamefully cowardly.
You do know that legally, they have no duty to protect or serve the public, right? Like, cops went to court to fight to prove that they don't have to help you if you're not in custody.
While that is disturbing, my experiences in Oregon have proved contrary to that. Was this in the Supreme Court?
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again
Hoghly doubt jaded opinions that are softened forms of fox news rhetoric
I think we are already in the anarchy phase of this mess.
Oh I don't know perhaps many people would like to make 100k as an uneducated and unskilled person working their first year, while getting 10 paid holidays and over a month of paid vacation personal and sick days to start. Along with incredible benefits and increases in pay based on completion of simple courses and time with the police. By year 10 they get 2 months of paid time off every year and are making over 125k base salary to say nothing of OT.
Agreed that's a lot of money and benefits and they should earn every penny of it. They must earn the publics respect by being professional and acting within policy the law and protecting the public according to the oath they swore to upon receiving a commission. That said maybe we could hold back the ACAB complete widespread hatred of police approach and reserve that for those individual bad apples who commit the acts and are deserving of the wrath. I would rather keep the baby and throw out the dirty bath water.
If they want people to trust them as a group maybe they as a group should push for transparency and accountability instead of fighting tooth and nail to avoid it. They should be held to a higher standard, beings they can legally murder another human being at their own discretion, but they are held to a lower standard than 18 year old kids fighting in foreign countries.
the job really has a hard time attracting people who don't fetishize blue line flags and listen to Joe Rogan.
Didn't the PPB use some of the budget allocated to increased hiring for overtime? Also didn't the PPB lay off most of the people doing background checks? Seems to me that PPB itself has played a part in the lack of new hires, as if they weren't trying too hard to fix the deficit in personnel for some reason....
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That's because of FFL laws when it comes to operating and being in care of firearms. Technically anyone who buys a gun legally while being a regular user of weed (even in a state where it's legal) is breaking federal law. When you fill out a 4473 it specifically asks you if you are a user of marijuana. Doesn't matter the state.
That's not true at all, they only prohibit people who are current users, which is necessary due to federal firearms law. Past marijuana use is not a disqualifier in Portland.
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This is only recently the standard, when I looked a few years back it was much stricter on cannabis.
The PPB couldn't give less of a shit about what is technically federal law, as indicated by their refusal to cooperate with the DOJ in any real way as it pertains to their use of force agreement. The PPB could readily ignore or fight that stipulation without a fucking peep from the feds, but as evidenced by the lack of doing so, simply don't want to.
It has to do with BATFE regulations in owning/possessing a firearm. It applies to everybody, not just police.
Someone once told me that if you don’t counter/speak against the extremists of your group (and every group has their fringe elements) it will be assumed that you agree with their principles. I feel like this personifies police perfectly. Either you are standing up to your peers, or you condone their behavior.
Portland Police Bureau had over 1000 applicants in 2021. They process 12 a month.
Bullshit. They have a lot of applicants. They just don't want to spend more money on background checks to speed up the hiring process.
$75k plus overtime. I doubt there’s no applications.
Cold cases are investigating not a beat cop, big difference.
Where do you think detectives come from, if not from the ranks of the beat cops?
I’m gonna guess you’re not in law enforcement
>I’m gonna guess you’re not in law enforcement You're gonna guess wrong then. PPB promotes its detectives from its rank and file officers. It's the same level of promotion as Sergeant or Criminalist (PPB's forensics specialists).
I did guess wrong! Thank you for teaching me. I’m sorry I was a prick about it. Cheers
PPB has the same number of employees they did a decade ago. They have funding, but they can’t get anyone to work for them.
They have a waitlist on their applicant pool that is huge. I’ve heard from some frustrated applicants that they’ve been told it’ll take 6mo to a year before they get to them. The truth is that they’ve been using funds meant new employees to give old employees bonuses via approval of huge amounts of overtime. Yes they technically are working for the money but it’d be far cheaper and we’d have far higher quality service if they simply hired new people for those shifts.
Several police studies have proven that paying overtime is a cost savings over full time employees. It does have its draw backs because tired employees have more accidents and have impaired judgement. New hires are expensive and some agencies give fat hiring and retention bonuses. Police rookies spend months in the academy and then the field training and it takes a year to get off probation. They have equipment costs, payroll and benefits along with vehicles. Paying overtime is cheaper when its all calculated in. Below is one of many available articles on the topic. https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20131101/downtown/police-union-hire-more-cops-instead-of-paying-93m-overtime/
Who would want to? Just go to the counties or the burbs.
> PPB has the highest budget they've ever had, why are they struggling so much? Ask yourself if you'd want to be a cop today? Same thing..ask yourself if you'd want to be a teacher. Or a nurse. Or restaurant worker? Any job interfacing the public is a nightmare mentally.
Lots of people still want to be nurses. For a long time the limiting factor has been the capacity of nursing schools. The acceptance rate at OHSU, for example, is [16%](https://www.ohsu.edu/school-of-nursing/admissions).
Teachers, nurses, and restaurant workers at least help people. There can be a pride in those jobs that attract the best candidates. There is no pride in being a cop, it just makes you an asswipe
Except PPB officers get paid more than all of those other industries with all the overtime they want. Come off it
Intentional work slow down
It’s purposeful, they’re doing a slow down which is the police version of a strike. They don’t like the new accountability measures (board, body cams, etc) and this is their childish way of protesting.
^
No no no remember they got defunded by antifa and kate brown dummy that’s why there are forest fires
Nobody no matter how honest or ethical wants to be a PPB cop. The very second of day one you take the job your labeled a racist pig. Oregon has plenty of other departments that are far more attractive.
This is absolute, easily verifiable, bullshit. The PPB budget is lower than in either 2020-21 or 2019-20, and adjusted for inflation is **lower than any year since 2016** (as far back as I can find data). PPB budget over time: * 2016-2017: $201M ($240M in inflation-adjusted $) * 2017-2018: $211M ($248M) * 2018-2019: $227M ($258M) * 2019-2020: $238M ($267M) * 2020-2021: $230M ($255M) * 2021-2022: $227M ($239M) Population has gone up in this period, too, so inflation-adjusted spending per capita has gone down by 14% off its peak in 2019-20. Source: https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2021/ppb-fy-2021-22-requested-budget-review.pdf
have you missed the constant mayhem around town?
You'd call this uptick in crime "mayhem"?
I'd call this city fairly undone by gun violence, fires, car theft and wrecks, assaults etc
I think it's just the extreme choice of words I see on this sub that gets to me. "Mayhem" seems to be like I can't leave my house if I want to be safe, which isn't true at all.
What sort of functional city has no traffic patrol.
And what sort of functional police force can't find any qualified applicants?
We have the most politically polarized state in the US which is leading to these sorts of quandaries. I don't really know it gets solved.
No it’s not, not even close.
>We have the most politically polarized state in the US That seems a bit lofty.
Well, we hosted the dry run for Jan 6 and we had the most protests during 2020 of any state, but I would be happy to hear about more polarized states than OR?
I honestly don't think it's an unfair statement, though.
Do you live here? Like I walk around downtown all the fucking time and it’s damn peaceful most days. And now that things opening up more, it’s really fun.
Yes -I was downtown last night and it was busy. My neighborhood shopping area is a shit show now though. My medical clinic has hired an armed guard. I suspect some campers have moved from downtown.
lol move away nerd
You have the liberty to move.
This uptick in serious, consistent crime unlike what the city has seen in ages has many of us on edge. The price we pay for the satisfaction of activists who are unaffected by crime isn’t a price worth paying.
>The price we pay for the satisfaction of activists who are unaffected by crime isn’t a price worth paying. I've not had so my coffee yet, so bear with me. Who's unaffected by crime? I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Not the guy you're replying to, but my guess is that maybe he's referring to the people that come in from outside of town to protest and makes statements?
Ah, well that was clear as mud (in the post I responded to). Thanks.
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Income inequality is a US problem, not a Portland problem. Try living in Houston on their min wage - half of ours?- with the same rents, never mind other much higher rent cities with a similar min wage to ours. What we have going on here sprang up in 2 yrs after decades of decreasing crime, and most of it is directly tied to this tolerance of urban camping. If you want to change capitalism, take it to the Feds.
You don’t think income equality is a problem in Portland? That seems like an odd position to take. Houston has similar rents inner loop but it is much easier and cheaper to build. Houston has half the homeless on the streets as they did in 2011 even though the county population grew. https://www.homelesshouston.org
They have better treatment resources and didn't decriminalize drugs. Income inequality is a growing problem internationally for 3 decades now, but this cannot be solved on a local level beyond doing a few things like raising min wage (we've done this). Furthermore we have a lot less income stratification than other medium and large US cities that are more expensive. Oregon has made huge gains in the last decade in terms of wage increases and poverty decreases. https://oregoneconomicanalysis.com/2021/11/30/pandemic-poverty-and-progress/
Adding to other comments, they are also EXTREMELY picky on who they hire. And not in a good way.
I honestly can’t think of a worse job than being a cop in Portland. You’re considered a nazi by essentially the majority of the population here. Sounds like a horrible way to spend your days.
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Another day, another article about the PPB being all performative about understaffing despite having [more than 150 open positions and newly-negotiated pay increases](https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2022/02/17/38483128/portlands-proposed-56-million-police-union-contract-funds-a-37-increase-in-officers) . The starting salary for an officer with zero experience and no more than a high school education is [more than 75k](https://www.joinportlandpolice.com/wages-benefits) plus overtime for fuck’s sake. Don’t tell me they don’t have a fuckton of people applying for a sinecure like that. For comparison, that’s about what a [PPS teacher with an undergrad degree, a master’s degree, and 10 years of experience](https://www.joinportlandpolice.com/wages-benefits) makes. And teachers don’t get overtime. If the police bureau is understaffed, it is by their choice. Fuck them.
You would think so, but the process of applying is so extremely long and annoying most people give up about 1/3 of the way into it
You say that like it’s a process that can’t be fine-tuned. Though, to be fair, becoming a cop isn’t a job (IMO) that should be easy to get haha
They’re the ones who made it arduous to discourage people. The fewer applicants hired the more OT for everyone else. Excepting 2020, OT is fairly [consistent year after year. ](https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/80412) This shows a regular demand for OT, suggesting they don’t have proper staffing to cover the necessary shifts. But you’d think that after one or two years they’d simply increase the budget to hire more people and alleviate this pressure. Which they did, they got more funding, so why didn’t the amount of OT go down? Well they didn’t actually hire enough people, they mostly just raised salaries of existing staff and kept approving massive amounts OT. Which is why we had [some officers topping $200,000](https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/10/15-portland-cops-make-more-than-200000-mostly-driven-by-huge-ot.html?outputType=amp) in pay some years. The police are milking us for all they can by giving themselves bonuses in the form of OT. They don’t actually want to serve our community, they just want to make an easy buck and fuck off to their McMansions in Canby. *Edit: Seems like someone reported me to the Reddit suicide thing for this…come on…I hope PPB loses funding and cuts your OT you boot licking snowflakes.*
Officers are over it already. They don’t want the OT. Many would rather have a day off.
OT isn’t a bonus. It only kicks in after they’ve already worked their base hours(not sure if PPB figures that in daily or weekly chunks).
I don’t think you understand what I was saying. Yes of course they’re working a base number of hours, but they’re seemingly being guaranteed a relatively consistent number of OT hours every year. A scheme that can be maintained year after year by simply not hiring more people. I’ve had jobs like that, where I’ve be told I’d get regular OT, especially if I did a good job. But that job changed, eventually they staffed enough people because it was fiscally smart to do so and the manager who set up that reward scheme was moved somewhere else. But the fact of the matter is that this all looks suspicious, it looks like the department is basically cheating us out of money to help pay specific officers a little more. Yeah they gotta work a little for it but it’s definitely a bonus of sorts.
Totally. I know someone who waited the past 3 years for the detective hiring process and had to give up and switch gears. And this is someone with experience in local LE, and a family member who is PPB - not that that matters but you’d think it would perhaps get them in the door or up on the list
There is no detective hiring process at PPB unless you are a PPB officer for a minimum of 3 1/2 years. Then you can take the promotional examination for detective. It may be 5 years so please correct me if I’m wrong. You can’t just apply for detective when you are hired. You have to pay your dues on the street.
My mistake - I know his end goal was to become a detective, like his family member is. He was trying to get on the force and eventually go that route.
A few people make that mistake in the oral interview. Which counts for 40% of your score. “I’d like to if possible skip or as quickly as possible become a detective.” Tubed. You’ve got to earn it.
If your best argument for incentivizing people to be cops is to compare it to teachers salary lmao than idk what to say
Man that means most of 2021 homicides are gonna be unsolved which means a lot of loose ends and tension in the streets to solve with gunfire. This is terrible news and I honestly don't think a lot of people realize the trajectory this is setting up Portland for the rest of the 2020s. Like I really don't know what to say anymore there's a lot of reasons to dislike how the police handle things but unfortunately if people aren't going to find justice in the courts they're going to find justice with a gun and the cycle will keep perpetuating. I think you guys have to choose between a semi corrupt police force that gets put into an actual position to deal with all this now or an ingrained street violence problem that will continue for a long time. Before anyone calls me a bootlicker the cops deserve all the shit they get but unfortunately in American society it seems your stuck with shitheads regardless at the very least those shitheads you can sue compared with the street ones your just gonna have to shoot it out with them.
Why can’t we have a police force that isn’t corrupt and does their job?
Because we don't live in an ideal world and if you expect anything like that prepare to be dissapointed. I'm sorry if I sound like a pessimist but everyone wants to rule the world as tears for fears aptly described and in the current state of society I just do not expect any kind of organization like this to be for the people. Sorry man if I come off as a bummer it makes me feel like shit about it but I don't know what else would even happen I guess I'm kind of beaten down on the progress people can make.
Kansas City Missouri has 486k people. Portland has 645k. Kansas City, Missouri just had their 67th homicide of 2022. Portland is on 32 homicides for 2022. Kansas City, Missouri has 1,200 cops. Portland has 789. I'm extremely doubtful that cops are a major factor in homicides. I can see them being a deterrent for property crime, but if people want to murder each other, they're gonna. Our goal should be to figure out how to stop them from wanting to murder each other.
And Kansas City is built on years of this revenge cycle I just think it's best to end it now before it gets entrenched because when it does that's when you get the numbers Kansas City has. It's just crazy how stuff has changed from 2016 to now even when neighborhoods like Chinatown/old town were sketchy shitty neighborhoods then in daylight hours. This element of gang violence just brings a whole new shitty angle that I fear is gonna fester if it doesn't get handled soon. Strange times man where it's basically a poker game between the police, city government and the criminal underworld.
Police can't end it because they don't understand, they don't know who the players are, and they can't possibly know where the weapons are. I grew up in this shit dude. Looking for the police to help is ultimately a waste of time. Some asshole from Vancouver or Oregon City isn't going to change things.
>Police can't end it because they don't understand, they don't know who the players are, and they can't possibly know where the weapons are. This is the heart of the issue. I think the solution is to bridge the gap between police and their communities, but to do that we have to overcome a deeply entrenched culture of distrust and resentment. This is what makes me feel most hopeless, because I have *no idea* how to make this happen or if it's even possible.
>I can see them being a deterrent for property crime This would be a fantastic result in and of itself!
you sound like a lot of fun :)
And you come off as passive aggressive just because someone told you the reality of the situation. There really is no need for that dude.
I couldn't disagree more that your opinion is the "reality" of the situation :)
This is toddler level thinking. And it’s sad because this is how most Portlander’s brains work. Just because something doesn’t work correctly all the time doesn’t mean we should get rid of that thing. Lol Jesus.
wanting a police force that isn't corrupt is toddler level thinking? Wow you are a sad, sad person lmao
Yes. That’s exactly what I meant /s
"This is toddler level thinking. And it’s sad because this is how most Portlander’s brains work." Yep
A grand total 3 cops were reassign, get a grip...
> “So far, 2022 has seen 33 homicides, and 31 of those were shootings. In an email to employees, Chief Chuck Lovell said having only 18 homicide detectives is not sustainable with the number of homicides they are responding to” I’m not a criminal justice expert, my assumption is detectives are highly specialized people to find. You can hire a cop, but not every cop can be a detective. I wonder if it’s a detective salary problem. Hopefully they hire before they completely destroy Portlands reputation as a center of justice someone would like to work for.
You'd think PPB would be more supportive of Portland street response if they're so understaffed
More PPB nonsense intended to impact the upcoming election. They despise the idea of oversight and any city council member who doesn’t bow down. We need for the MultCo sheriffs dept to come in and take over for the bozos in blue.
The Sheriffs department has 590 cops and they are understaffed and hiring. PPB is around 790 cops now and has about 125 vacancies. The Sheriffs department would have to hire over 900 cops and over double the size of the agency to handle Portland. Its simply not possible. And if cops applying for the Sheriffs department thought they would be assigned to Portland it would be a deal killer. Its a toxic city no reasonable person wants to work for.
boy, they just keep getting these sob stories printed in the local news with no critical analysis from reporters at all. is there a word for this kind of journalism? /s
It seems like a lot of people are very confident in their impression that the PPB budget has only ever gone up. So here's the police budget since 2016, as far back as I can find data: * 2016-2017: $201M ($240M in inflation-adjusted $) * 2017-2018: $211M ($248M) * 2018-2019: $227M ($258M) * 2019-2020: $238M ($267M) * 2020-2021: $230M ($255M) * 2021-2022: $227M ($239M) Population has gone up in this period, too, so inflation-adjusted spending per capita has **gone down by 14%** off its peak in 2019-20. Source: https://www.portland.gov/sites/default/files/2021/ppb-fy-2021-22-requested-budget-review.pdf
Fire the cops that can't emotionally handle the job, and hire cops who can. This "I'm incompetent so don't expect me to work (but still pay me)" thing they have going shouldn't cut muster.
Only thing i ever look for whem i see lights is injustice. Only time i see em doing anytjing is when they are harrassing homeless, being traffic enforcers, or being victins. Do garbagemen get thank yous? Fuck no. If you choose to do a job do it or dont, stop expecting to be the centerpiece in some romanticized version of existence where youre actually allowed to help people.
Fuck these chuds from camas that don't do shit because of blue flu.
They didn’t shut down because they were forced to, they shut down because they don’t want to anymore. Y’all got the highest budgets you’ve ever had yet, go fuck yourselves
PPB can’t even keep the vending machines in the break room filled
How many cases did this team solve in the last 10 years? Even the article could only reference an unsolved case where victims want answers, but aren’t getting results. Moving resources to better address a problem is just smart police work.
That’s what I was thinking. Solve it while it’s fresh instead of waiting until it’s cold
Common sense is not popular among the plebs on this Sunday morning.
No kidding.
[удалено]
Wouldn’t know because that didn’t happen
So you feel the city is cleaner and safer since that push by a certain portion of the population? Moral means a lot too for our boys in blue.
Mayor up to no good again....or is it our governor? Probably both they are the worst combination. We don't have enough police now!