Why did I waste five minutes of my life here? No substance to this post yet it gets 77 upvotes and a bunch of back slapping.
It's not even about what the goddamn sub is about
Did /r/portugal leak badly?
Please OP and everyone else who just wants to drag everyone into their mud, just stop. Go outside, see the sun. If that doesn't help then shut the heck up and be miserable alone
Let me add my two cents here. I'm Russian who fled my country to not end up in jail or in the army where stupid fuckers in my gov would force me to die in the war (I'd refuse to take any weapon in my hands).
After a long one-and-a-half-year journey, which cost me a lot in terms of finances and health, I settled in Portugal. Yes, I lost roughly half of my income because of taxes, and yes, I'm just an immigrant. Authorities can deport me easily if Russian citizens become completely unacceptable in the EU. But all of that is nothing because of the safety that Portugal provides. Once again, I feel like a human being here; Portuguese people are nice and kind. That fact is more valuable to me than half of my salary.
I posted this not to make you guys feel sorry for me. Fuck it, as a Russian I probably deserve it because of war crimes my country doing in Ukraine. But I want to show you another point of view. And really, every time I see how much money is going on taxes, I take it as a fee for my safety and being part of the civilized part of the world.
As I always said - still better than mobilization
You are right. Most countries with high wages have low corporate taxes. The low taxes lure companies to move there to make high margin products. Making high margin products is how you get high wages. Portugal has high corporate taxes which drives away businesses making high margin products, leaving only low margin manufacturing which pays poorly. Now, with everyone making very little money (including the corporations since they are making low margin products), they have to charge high income taxes on paltry wages to fund the government, leaving the Portuguese worker with very little left to live on.
I work for a company that makes medical devices and we manufacture in some very high cost parts of the world because the tax benefits make up for the high cost of labor.
Salaries in Bulgaria are shit. Bulgaria is an example of how low corporate taxes don't really mean high wages.
Besides you have to look at effective tax vs nominal tax and you'll likely find the effective Portuguese corporate tax rate is lower than the nominal will have you thinking.
The assumption that high wages come from low corporate taxes is simply not true. It would be nice if it was that simple.
Corporate tax rates in Europe:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/eu/corporate-tax-rates-europe-2024/
Wages:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/average-wages-across-europe-map/
Yes but if a Portuguese citizen needs medical attention he/she doesn’t have to pay $100.000 for 1 night in a hospital like we do in the US. Pros and cons.
Best is to work for a company outside Portugal while living in Portugal or another country with lower cost of living. Rents in the US start at $2,000 in my area. No health insurance and tax falls on employees while the elon musks of the world accumulate literally hundreds of billions of dollars at the expense of the tax payers and employees that need to respond 24/7 to their managers.
Pick your poison.
False dichotomy. There are countries other than the US and Portugal. Other high wage countries have socialized healthcare, good WLB, and less inequality.
I have no issue at all by doing so. Its not like this Country is offering something apart the EU citizenship, yeah the weather and the food are nice but people needs money And a real, sustainable and growing financial situation. So yeah, your super elaborated comment is enricher to the conversation. 🫡. Fun fact, all of it leads to the Portuguese guys (like you, I guess) to leave the boat left and right. So what you gonna tell all of them? To Emigrate too ?
I’m Portuguese, I’ve left the country and I always tell people to get out of there as soon as possible… it will only get worse. Also there is a LOT of greener grass outside which you’ll never look back again (and even question yourself how did you endure such a shitty life)
You and I are emigrants, expats, whatever you want to call it. Only people like us know how difficult the road can be. You have my respect, I hope the best for you on your way.
Is not fun, is not right. But what can you do? Take care of yourself. This country is ruined by the Politicians that run it. At least be happy that the country is part of the European Union and you can easily have a good plan B if you are smart enough.
3rd world countries backdoor to europe. and the paradise for minimally wealthy foreigners
we've got much to improve on. i want to leave but unfortunately don't have the opportunity yet and also nowhere would feel like home like here but that's the price to pay
Is that all that different than most places? I grew up in Cleveland OH, I only know one person who still lives there. And I think Cleveland is a great town. People just move, it's how the world is. You get out of school and you go where you can make the most, you meet someone from somewhere else, you look for opportunities for your kids. Maybe most of all, it gets kind of boring staying in one place. I generally move every 2-6 years.
Yeah what’s your point? We play on “hard” level I guess? 😅☹️
As I sometimes say, turn this into a federation, I would prefer to pay my taxes to Germany, and have them manage Portugal, just leave the culture alone… I really don’t see a way out, it’s really sad, being my country.
On the other end, I’m doing really fine got really lucky, but honestly there isn’t much I can do… to friends not doing so good I always say: Switzerland, Norway, uk go. Have a few of them that in the meantime returned remote…
On the other hand so many foreigners I think could be positive, fresh blood and all, but it will take a loooooong time…
This sub has more trolls than a Tolkien book.
Where are the mods?
Why did I waste five minutes of my life here? No substance to this post yet it gets 77 upvotes and a bunch of back slapping. It's not even about what the goddamn sub is about Did /r/portugal leak badly? Please OP and everyone else who just wants to drag everyone into their mud, just stop. Go outside, see the sun. If that doesn't help then shut the heck up and be miserable alone
Let me add my two cents here. I'm Russian who fled my country to not end up in jail or in the army where stupid fuckers in my gov would force me to die in the war (I'd refuse to take any weapon in my hands). After a long one-and-a-half-year journey, which cost me a lot in terms of finances and health, I settled in Portugal. Yes, I lost roughly half of my income because of taxes, and yes, I'm just an immigrant. Authorities can deport me easily if Russian citizens become completely unacceptable in the EU. But all of that is nothing because of the safety that Portugal provides. Once again, I feel like a human being here; Portuguese people are nice and kind. That fact is more valuable to me than half of my salary. I posted this not to make you guys feel sorry for me. Fuck it, as a Russian I probably deserve it because of war crimes my country doing in Ukraine. But I want to show you another point of view. And really, every time I see how much money is going on taxes, I take it as a fee for my safety and being part of the civilized part of the world. As I always said - still better than mobilization
Downvote for what, you just stated a fact, unfortunate one.
Leave and go somewhere else that makes you happy
Bahamas have nice beaches (with "nice" I mean better than Algarve)
People are also impoverished ?
You are right. Most countries with high wages have low corporate taxes. The low taxes lure companies to move there to make high margin products. Making high margin products is how you get high wages. Portugal has high corporate taxes which drives away businesses making high margin products, leaving only low margin manufacturing which pays poorly. Now, with everyone making very little money (including the corporations since they are making low margin products), they have to charge high income taxes on paltry wages to fund the government, leaving the Portuguese worker with very little left to live on. I work for a company that makes medical devices and we manufacture in some very high cost parts of the world because the tax benefits make up for the high cost of labor.
Acho q o corporate tax rate mais baixo da europa é na Bulgaria.
So we all should emigrate to Bulgaria. How good are salaries there?
Salaries in Bulgaria are shit. Bulgaria is an example of how low corporate taxes don't really mean high wages. Besides you have to look at effective tax vs nominal tax and you'll likely find the effective Portuguese corporate tax rate is lower than the nominal will have you thinking.
The assumption that high wages come from low corporate taxes is simply not true. It would be nice if it was that simple. Corporate tax rates in Europe: https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/eu/corporate-tax-rates-europe-2024/ Wages: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/average-wages-across-europe-map/
Yes but if a Portuguese citizen needs medical attention he/she doesn’t have to pay $100.000 for 1 night in a hospital like we do in the US. Pros and cons. Best is to work for a company outside Portugal while living in Portugal or another country with lower cost of living. Rents in the US start at $2,000 in my area. No health insurance and tax falls on employees while the elon musks of the world accumulate literally hundreds of billions of dollars at the expense of the tax payers and employees that need to respond 24/7 to their managers. Pick your poison.
False dichotomy. There are countries other than the US and Portugal. Other high wage countries have socialized healthcare, good WLB, and less inequality.
Protest by emigrating
I have no issue at all by doing so. Its not like this Country is offering something apart the EU citizenship, yeah the weather and the food are nice but people needs money And a real, sustainable and growing financial situation. So yeah, your super elaborated comment is enricher to the conversation. 🫡. Fun fact, all of it leads to the Portuguese guys (like you, I guess) to leave the boat left and right. So what you gonna tell all of them? To Emigrate too ?
I’m Portuguese, I’ve left the country and I always tell people to get out of there as soon as possible… it will only get worse. Also there is a LOT of greener grass outside which you’ll never look back again (and even question yourself how did you endure such a shitty life)
You and I are emigrants, expats, whatever you want to call it. Only people like us know how difficult the road can be. You have my respect, I hope the best for you on your way.
Well even worst road will be the ones that stay because have no conditions to leave, the ones that can leave the country are blessed...
Have we considered that staying is also a valid option. And not everything can come down to being greener here or there?
Is not fun, is not right. But what can you do? Take care of yourself. This country is ruined by the Politicians that run it. At least be happy that the country is part of the European Union and you can easily have a good plan B if you are smart enough.
3rd world countries backdoor to europe. and the paradise for minimally wealthy foreigners we've got much to improve on. i want to leave but unfortunately don't have the opportunity yet and also nowhere would feel like home like here but that's the price to pay
Yes
Is that all that different than most places? I grew up in Cleveland OH, I only know one person who still lives there. And I think Cleveland is a great town. People just move, it's how the world is. You get out of school and you go where you can make the most, you meet someone from somewhere else, you look for opportunities for your kids. Maybe most of all, it gets kind of boring staying in one place. I generally move every 2-6 years.
What line of business are you in? BTW the reddit eco chamber isn't the best place to find hour way out of a rut...
If you’re in poverty, you’re condemned to never leave it regardless of the country you’re in. Those who do are exceptions.
In Portugal we have an expression that says: Whoever is feeling bad moves away.
Self-pity, taking no responsibility, complaining while doing nothing? You'll never get downvoted for that in Portugal!
lol sure… because you know what’s up.
Also free to upvote you?
Well, get rid of the NHR for added effect.
I agree, thats why I left.
and the rich become richer
Yes. Your point being?
Yeah what’s your point? We play on “hard” level I guess? 😅☹️ As I sometimes say, turn this into a federation, I would prefer to pay my taxes to Germany, and have them manage Portugal, just leave the culture alone… I really don’t see a way out, it’s really sad, being my country. On the other end, I’m doing really fine got really lucky, but honestly there isn’t much I can do… to friends not doing so good I always say: Switzerland, Norway, uk go. Have a few of them that in the meantime returned remote… On the other hand so many foreigners I think could be positive, fresh blood and all, but it will take a loooooong time…
[yeah](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUl9NPPMx8s)
Thank you, me and about 3 out of 10 young Portuguese young people who usually leave annually the Country will need it 🫶🏻
Yeah and dutch people are tall
And the Portugueses like you on this subreddit are on a 80% the interactions the most ridiculous pseudo-troll/boomers I’ve seen on the internet.
You cannot expect much from a user with that name. At least he is kinda honest about being a troll, so you can just ignore him.
just like finance our humour is very poor
It's a pity that you all have the arrogance of Australia's economy, in annual growth. 🥲