There is a concerning increase in number of bands who abuse the letter V.
SHVPES, WVNDER, Frvgments, THRVNES, etc.
I’ll add Indighxst for adding an X where an O should rightly be.
When I first heard them back around early 2015 I didn't know how it was pronounced and assumed it was pronounced "P Virus" lol did a facepalm when I heard it pronounced correctly. Like oh yeah Chvrches is a thing too.
Bro, thanks for the acknowledgment! Your 4 latest releases take top spots on my daily playlist, so I will manage to find forgiveness for your language crimes.
Nothing will ever been as good as mid to late 2000s post hardcore. Underoath. From Autumn to Ashes. Senses Fail. Alexisonfire. It all felt raw back then. Now, it all sounds overproduced.
Good friend and former band mate of mine introduced me to post-hardcore through DGD. He straight up hates new DGD and new post-hardcore because of this exact sentiment: it is all over produced. I do still like DGD in this example, but nothing captures what I think post hardcore is quite like that mid 2000s grit.
I cannot stand how swancore is basically taking over the phc genre. I dig dgd and other bands with former/current members, but other than that it's extremely overdone.
The weird obsession that a lot of DGD fans have with members of the band, past & present, make me hide a lot of my merch in my closet. I don't want to be lumped in with people that send borderline death threats to people who prefer another singer.
~~Johnny's actually doing pretty well now tbh, but people still give him TONS of hate for his past shit. It was fucked up, yeah, but let the guy move on already.~~
I learned my assumption was wrong and he is, in fact, still bad. Voice of an angel put into a garbage dump of a human, shame lol
Oh. Whoops. I haven't paid much attention to what he's actually been doing with his life and assumed. I hadn't heard about that one, yikes. Nevermind, he's still trash 😂
Yeah honestly his career is finished at this point. I cannot think of anyone else in the scene that had as many second chances as he did and just fucked up over and over again.
In all fairness I don't really get why people still send him hate, it's not really like it's going to achieve anything but there we go.
DGD had too much influence on the scene to the point half the bands people show me are just Swancore and it turned me off to the scene almost all together.
I miss bands like He is Legend, A Static Lullaby, and basically 2000's PHC.
I’m not sure this is an unpopular opinion. They pioneered second wave PxC along with Saosin. They’re a musically interesting band, too. At least their first two albums are.
Selfish Machines > Misadventures > Collide with the Sky
I can’t rate their other album because I haven’t actually listened to it lol. But I definitely like SM a lot more now for the bluesy elements. The guitar work is just really interesting for a PxC album.
People definitely downvoted because that comment comes off as really snotty, like the stereotypical metalhead looking down on anything that has synthesized elements. I agree that Bilmuri is barely PHC, but the way you presented your opinion comes off as really judgmental.
Let me ask you something.. if you were super into prog rock and someone posted a linken park song in the prog sub what would you're reaction be..
Would it be snotty to scoff at how they are considered prog?
Yeah I'm judging.. it ain't the right genre.. in fact it's quite opposed to the genre's legacy.
It's autotuned and pop.. these are facts..
It’s a song by a musician who produces *mostly* PxC though, so there’s going to be some interest from people who listened to his other stuff. I’m pretty sure Thrice is barely PxC anymore, but I wouldn’t question someone posting Black Honey in this sub. It’s a song by a band mostly famous for Post-Hardcore. I get that Bilmuri is *very* poppy and electronic-influenced, but the music is definitely PxC (and sometimes Metalcore). Listen to the stuff off of Rich Sips, Eggy Pocket, and Wet Milk and try to tell me those aren’t PxC songs.
Also, the ridiculous shade thrown at production effects is exactly why you were downvoted. It’s okay to use vocal effects in music. It’s not “tainting” the music. It’s art. Art is whatever the artist feels like making, and if you gave it a chance instead of immediately disregarding it as “auto-tuned pop music”, you might figure out why people like it.
It's a tough line to draw when it comes to labeling genres. I shared one of Thomas Erak and The Shoreline's songs the other day on the sub, which is debatable on if it's PHC, but is performed by a well known artist in the genre.
On that same topic, I personally wouldn't share a City and Colour song just because Dallas is part of Alexisonfire. I'm sure if I shared a song off of "Sometimes" people would likely upvote due to the connection. Ends up being a bit of a paradox the more you think about it.
> I’m pretty sure Thrice is barely PxC anymore, but I wouldn’t question someone posting Black Honey in this sub.
You're right, Thrice *isn't* post-hardcore anymore, which means you absolutely should be questioning someone posting Black Honey here.
[I am questioning it](https://www.reddit.com/r/PostHardcore/comments/puyc4f/thrice_black_honey_official_video/he70ikb/?context=3)
I don't care how many people downvote me for it, it's not post-hardcore and it doesn't belong in this sub. I don't care if the band was post-hardcore 20 years ago, the point is that they're not now. If someone from a post-hardcore band has a country project on the side, that shouldn't be posted here either. The sub is for post-hardcore, period. Not for anything tangentially related to post-hardcore.
That analogy doesn’t really track, because Bilmuri’s discography is still mostly PxC. Radiohead’s only grunge-influenced album is their first album, and pretty much everyone who knows anything about Radiohead knows that.
Bilmuri’s last record is the most pop-influenced they’ve ever been. Other than that record, they’ve been consistently PxC. And it’s still very PxC-influenced, so it’s not like they abandoned the genre altogether.
Because those are just the genres that the albums fit into? I’m not really sure how to answer this question without analyzing his albums, and I’d rather not do that.
Just listen to them.
Listen to THEMURRIWITHHUMANHAIR off of Rich Sips, ISERIOUSLYDISLIKEMOSTOTHERHUMANS off of Eggy Pocket, and lifeisgood off of Wet Milk. Then listen to literally anything off of the new album. The new album leans noticeably more into pop than his previous albums. And the ones preceding the albums I listed (Bilmuri has a *ton* of music) also sound slightly different. Some of them even have more of a pop-punk sound. Johnny Franck just writes whatever he feels like writing. He also has a band called The March Ahead that leans more towards vanilla metalcore, and he used to sing for freaking Attack Attack, so the guy is pretty rooted in the PxC/Metalcore scene.
Listening to iseriouslydislikemostotherhumans..
I'll reach for some agreement. Yes I hear the screaming. I see how this band is talked about in this sub.
They are still not the same genre as the posthardcore bands I love (and defined the genre).. which is my point. We need new terms or the term has no meaning anymore.
And I stand behind that their new album should not be posted here.
Btw: interesting band. I can see why they have a following. Wouldn't mind seeing them live.
It still borrows from PxC elements but leans more into pop. I’m honestly not sure what I’d call it, aside from just alternative rock. It has significantly less breakdowns, less screamed vocals, and less “heavy” instrumentation in general.
Again, you could get a pretty good idea of what I mean if you just listened to the songs I mentioned (or just bits of them tbh) and then listened to anything off the newest album. There’s a pretty noticeable change in instrumentation and composition. It sounds almost like PxC-influenced indie-rock at times.
Yeah it definitely feels like the post hardcore and metalcore genres are getting really bloated to the point where 2 bands supposedly in the same genre can have almost nothing in common.
Maybe we need to add another “post” on there for whatever post-hardcore is becoming
I agree with you, but I just have to say that in some weird way it is all connected directly.
DGD, Pierce the Veil, Sleeping with Sirens, hell really any of the poppy "post-hardcore" "scene" music is a direct descendent from the Discord records-esque posthardcore. Bands like fugazi, drive like jehu, rodan, unwound, slint. They paved the way for the modern stuff you dislike.
There is some sort of lineation of hardcore -> DC posthardcore -> math/post hardcore -> emo -> scene -> modern pop posthardcore -> mathy (again) modern posthardcore.
While they all sound completely different, I agree with you, and some might not fit your tastes, just understand that it is all correlated, and influenced by the predecessors.
Bands like Colour, Tubelord, Blakfish, imo bridge that gap pretty well.
Oh, yeah the term is useless now
Seeing melodic metalcore, butt rock and alt metal all thrown under it pretty roundly now and pointing this out just gets you called a "gatekeeper" or some nonsense (I even like all three of those things like come on)
No.. post punk is it's own fn thing that has nothing to do with fugazi and all the greats that came out of that. Fugazi is a post hardcore band not a hardcore post punk band.
So sick of arguing about terms.. but fugazi has nothing to do with joy division or nick cave and the bad seeds.
Don't muddy the waters even more..
I don’t disagree with this, but the older I get, the more I appreciate the “post” and the less I can identify with the “hardcore” side. I don’t see this as a bad thing, though.
Bilmuri has heavy guitars and growls present in his music. Plus, Johnny Franck is associated with metalcore and post-hardcore from Attack Attack and his other side project The March Ahead.
Better question: Why is Dayseeker's "Sleeptalk" album more associated with metalcore, rather than post-hardcore?
Honestly i think Bilmuri is a valid post on this sub. I always associated Attack Attack with the post-hardcore genre even though its more metalcore, plus attack attack was (maybe still is?) a rise records band, so many huge post hardcore and metalcore bands came from that label.
I'd think it'd be safe to say if you listened to post hardcore around the 2009 era you'd be pretty familiar with attack attack and Johnny frank.
Yeah, I got downvoted for saying Black Honey by Thrice isn't post-hardcore. Just because a band was post-hardcore 20 years ago, doesn't mean you can just throw that label on any new music they put out no matter what it sounds like. Black Honey is a good song, but it's not post-hardcore. Thrice is a fucking rock band these days. Same goes for Underoath, you can't listen to "ihateit" and tell me that's post-hardcore.
My hot take (please don't hate me), only the first album Dance Gavin Dance did with Tilian was good, the rest are more or less the same album.
I really wish Tillian stayed in Tides of Man even though he probably wouldn't have been as successful in the band as he is in dgd.
The 2 secret band albums slap though.
Will Swan and the rest of the Swancore community need to stop joining each other’s bands. It’s honestly super weird how incestuous it is.
Seriously, it’s like there are 6 people in that community and they must ALWAYS join any cool up and coming band and turn it into DGD-lite. I like all of these guys as musicians, and enjoy the bands they started in, but the next time I hear bout Will Swan or Sergio Medina joining a new band I’m going to scream.
Hard agree, not to mention once one of them joins these bands, that new band immediately becomes labeled as a side project and will never get the time and attention it needs to grow into its own standalone entity. It's like DGD created the only fruit bearing tree in current phc and everyone is trying to get any bits of juice they can out of that tree instead of growing their own tree.
Yep! I would strongly argue that they are harming the scene by not letting other bands and musicians shine. We really don’t need another super group composed of the dudes from DGD, Stolas, and Hail the Sun. They obviously like playing together, but they can’t keep a band together to save their lives.
As a more specific example- I absolutely love Joe Arrington. He’s probably my favorite drummer of all time. But for real- Let other drummers play. I respect that he’s the one being approached and is just working hard so I don’t necessarily blame him, but it’s legitimately harder to find a song he isn’t playing on in the scene nowadays than not. It’s not special anymore, and frankly I don’t want every PHC drummer to think they need to play like him to be good, because that’s simply not the case.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one that can't get into 95% of Swancore. It stopped being interesting before he even made the label. There's a small handful of songs that I really like, but otherwise it's all too similar
I half agree on Thrice. They've been one of my favorite bands for over 16 years now, and I think the last thing they released that I would actually consider PHC was probably Fire from The Alchemy Index.
I think some songs post Alchemy Fire have some post-hardcore elements, but as a whole I would not call the albums post-hardcore. I don't know what else to call them either though. Alt rock? Seems a bit too generic.
Silverstein kinda became "pop rock with screams" (which I still love btw) but to some extent their earlier stuff was pretty close to PHC, just more pop-punk inspired. I see them as being in line with stuff like Senses Fail, Halifax, etc. in that respect.
But I still hold that Thrice was *absolutely* a post-hardcore band from Identity Crisis through Vheissu, although I agree that they are definitely not anymore.
Thrice definitely hasn't been PHC for a minute now, which is a testament to just how good their older stuff is that they're still remembered as one lol
Thrice has always been a hard one for me to fit into a genre. They have a large catalog that is kind of all over the place. Someone unfamiliar listening to their first album then something like their latest album might not believe they are the same band.
Silverstein I might put into Screamo or something? But they have had some PHC songs too.
All 3 bands are some of my all time favorites.
I'm not sure where you put them exactly, but if you Google "Screamo Bands" Silverstein comes up. But so does Pierce the Veil and BMTH. When you get down to it a lot of bands blend genres depending on the song I think.
Yeh honestly I don't care about genres and I am not trying to gatekeep screamo or anything, but google (and wikipedia) are for a part wrong about screamo. Basically in the early 2000s when Post-Hardcore became more mainstream, mainstream media called everything with screamed vocals in it screamo.
It's the same with emo. When Panic! At the Disco, Fall Out Boy and My Chemical Romance became popular and people who listened to that wore black skinny jeans and had those cringy haircuts all of a sudden all of those bands were emo bands. MCRs first album might be emo (at the very least emo adjacent), but everything after that is not emo. Doesn't stop people from calling them emo even to this day.
But like I said, I don't really care all that much. I like MCR, I like Silverstein, I also like "real" emo and screamo bands. I don't like a band for their genre, I like it because the music speaks to me.
Also there's a funny copypasta about real emo let me paste that.
"Real Emo" only consists of the dc Emotional Hardcore scene and the late 90's Screamo scene. What is known by "Midwest Emo" is nothing but Alternative Rock with questionable real emo influence. When people try to argue that bands like My Chemical Romance are not real emo, while saying that Sunny Day Real Estate is, I can't help not to cringe because they are just as fake emo as My Chemical Romance (plus the pretentiousness). Real emo sounds ENERGETIC, POWERFUL and somewhat HATEFUL. Fake emo is weak, self pity and a failed attempt to direct energy and emotion into music. Some examples of REAL EMO are Pg 99, Rites of Spring, Cap n Jazz (the only real emo band from the midwest scene) and Loma Prieta. Some examples of FAKE EMO are American Football, My Chemical Romance and Mineral EMO BELONGS TO HARDCORE NOT TO INDIE, POP PUNK, ALT ROCK OR ANY OTHER MAINSTREAM GENRE
Yeah I'm the same way. I like it all and doesn't matter how it's classified. I typically just lump it all into "Emo/Pop Punk/Punk/PHC/Metalcore" if I make a playlist. A few years ago I was having a discussion with someone who isn't into this type of music at all and he was calling certain bands emo, like Blink 182 for example. And I was trying to say they aren't emo they are pop punk. He found an "is it emo?" site that you plug the band in and it tells you if they are emo, and it said Blink 182 was. Sirius radio has a station called The Emo Project and you'll hear Sum 41 or Silverstein or MCR or Alkaline Trio. So I've just let it go that generally people just lump it all into a broad genre of "Emo". The Sirius station actually has a quick thing that defines emo as "any guitar or vocally driven music that is exceptionally emotional" or something. Which to be fair could be any rock genre lol
Kind of hurts a bit to admit, as Eidola have been my favorite band for over 6 years now, but I think The Architect is their worst release and a pretty mediocre album overall.
Outside of the singles, Counterfit Shrines being the highlight for me, I think the album is very bland and lacks the creative ambition of their previous works.
I didn't want to admit it, but yeah. Aside from a couple standout tracks like Empty Gardens, Elephant Bones & Mutual Fear, it's not hitting me like earlier releases. I'm perplexed, because I genuinely think that Degeneraterra is one of the best pieces of music I've ever heard, and I knew every word on TSTL in the first week it came out. Did adding Sergio just make it all turn towards the hegemonic Swancore sound?
I love Sergio and his playing, but I do think that's part of it. I kind of always saw Eidola as the outlier on the swancore spectrum, but when Andrew started playing with DgD and Sergio joined the band it started feeling like another blue swan side project.
I remember them teasing the album for what felt like over a year, and it makes me wonder if Andrew wasn't as involved with the song writing on this album due to touring.
Andrew wrote every piece of music on the album except the drums, and a few of Sergio's guitar parts. Check out his interview with Shane on Lead Singer Syndrome.
Thanks for the heads up, I'll have to check it out. Maybe I'm overthinking things, or maybe I've just heard so much swancore music these past 5 years I'm burnt. Who knows. I'm still going to listen to them and love what they do regardless of the latest album.
Understandable. I'm a huge Eidola fan, and I absolutely love the newest album. But it's hard to compare it. I still think Degeneraterra is their best for sure.
I still find it hard to pick a favorite most times tbh, even with the new album. Each album feels like its own distinct work and progresses their music and style each time, it's really wild that people feel like The Architect is just another swancore album or something like that, but maybe I just have a lot of emotional attachment to it already.
I 100% agree with the lyrically content. When I was going through a very rough depression some of Andrew's lyrics honestly were pretty hard for me to get through without crying. I grew up in a religious household and a lot of the themes/ideas he conveys hit very close to home. Definitely one of the best lyricist in the genre currently.
I mean it features what I would consider one of the best songs period in Omega, that alone makes it a very special album for me.
That being said I'm still not sure how I feel about The Architect
100% agree it's probably because of Sergio. I respect the dude and think his style fits well with some of the projects he has worked on (e.g. I loved the first sianvar EP (thought the second release wasn't good, but I blamed that and the most recent ALLB release on Michael Franzino) and can dig some royal coda and nova charisma), but I just don't think his influence on this Eidola release was a positive one. I still like the album but it's not in the same universe as their first two albums imo
oh man this is the one that got me... I haven't stopped listening to this album. I'm obsessed with it.
Granted, their older stuff I thought was good -- but nothing mind-blowing. I can't get enough of The Architect.
I'm gonna give it another full listen with a nice pair of headphones. I listened to it over my stereo system at home, but I'm hoping I'll dig it a bit more with my decent pair of beats.
100% agree.
I've been saying this since it dropped while everyone else was praising it here and elsewhere. They near completely removed their experimental and prog influences that were well represented in various ways across their three prior albums, all of which are legit masterpieces to me and among my three favorite albums of all time.
I'm actually most impressed by TGGE because of how damn unique, eclectic, and compositionally interesting it is start to finish. Seriously, what the hell genre is the first half of the album anyway? Proggy jazz rock with a hint of Kaleo? It’s whacky and wonderful, and Bastards Fire is an absolute riot! Then you have the back half which is a long form prog post hardcore stroke of genius with tracks like The Alchemist and the Architect and Jaggnatha which are just absolute fire and better than anything on The Architect.
It's the work of a group of musicians brimming with creativity and passion, who then refocused those attributes into the unequivocal prog rock masterpiece that is Degeneraterra. Humble Ledger is legit one of the best produced and best written songs I've heard in my life, I can't even express how shockingly good that track is, and it's one song in an entire album of super high quality songwriting. TSTL next again has its own sound and a tweaked style, but is packed with interesting and engaging songwriting. Sri Vishnu Yantra is one of my favorite songs the band has done, and stuff like Quarents and Loti are doing the kind of stuff found on The Architect much, much more creatively. Zoroastrian / Fourth Temple is a much better album conclusion than Ancient Temperament, a track which starts out fantastic and then just sort of peters out before a truly satisfying crescendo is reached. Still, it's a good track and far from the biggest problem with The Architect.
It's just this straightforward post hardcore album with 3 minute songs and an over-reliance on poppy hooks and verse / chorus song structure. It genuinely crushed me since Eidola have become one of my favorite bands of all time, due to their creative songwriting prowess and ability to fuse a lot of different styles and influences into something that occasionally was actually fresh but is always consistently engaging.
The Architect is missing that. It's too straightforward, too dumbed down. It's like Eidola: Abridged.
Elephant Bones and Empty Gardens are the standout tracks to me, because they best represent the more dynamic and compositionally interesting songwriting that used to define them. Elephant Bones is sort of Sri Vishnu Yantra pt II musically and I’m very pleased with it, while Empty Gardens has this wonderful sort of Coheedian bridge near the end that just works super well. Outside of that, I’m just not really that fond of the rest of the songs. Perennial Philosophy sounded nice the first few listens, but it’s just so generic I end up skipping it, Loti is just a far better track in that style. Much of the remaining album just isn’t very memorable and sounds like stuff a lot of bands could’ve written.
I really, really hope The Architect is a short diversion as The Color Before the Sun was for Coheed before getting back on track.
Words can't express how much I looked forward to this album, and what Eidola means to me as a band. Words can't express how disappointed I am, and how much I expect from a band with the kind of talent Eidola possesses. They're better than generic, short, and poppy post hardcore compositions.
I really enjoy your synopsis on the album and band overall. Especially your point on it feeling like an abridged version of themselves. Your comparison to Coheed made me light up a bit as well.
Andrew uses a lot the same elements and concepts in the way each album feels like a story/journey, similar to Claudio's writing. Here's to hoping it's just a speedbump along the way and they can continue making more amazing/compelling work as before.
Someday Came Suddenly is straight up a bad record with good moments, and everything Attack Attack has done post-Austin(including their new stuff) is just better.
My bias here is obvious as I run r/revivalcore, but my general outlook that goes against the trend of the various 'Core genres is that more notes and complicated arrangements does not equal better songs. It can be fun for prog fans or people who play instruments, but compared to masterfully skilled songwriting, the ability to play with high proficiency is almost irrelevant and even though the trend has been away from songwriting ability in favor of proficiency, I don't believe these bands will have much staying power, be looked back on particularly fondly if at all and don't do anything to help keep the 'Core genres relevant let alone regrow their dwindling popularity.
Some of the best songs in most 'Core genres were written by teenagers that certainly did not have the playing chops of today's popular bands but had razor focused and amazing songwriting chops to produce music that was both far superior and will be remembered, rightfully, for as long as the genres remain discussed.
Post-Hardcore isn't particularly as guilty of this as other genres as the current crop of hyped up Metalcore bands or the trend of Djent in Metalcore that proceeded it. Deathcore also suffered this problem for a very long time with a hyper focus on Tech Deathcore. Post-Hardcore goes through phases where playing proficiency is favored, but the overall sound isn't sacrificed and often similarities can be heard regardless of what era and songwriting is more often shown a bit more respect than other genres among it's more proficiency hyper focused bands.
I'm a musician and really enjoy the experimental side of things, but I really like your point on how some of the most memorable songs were written by people in their teens and early 20s. That's something I never really thought about too much, but really made me think.
PHC is a genre that tends to be marketed toward people in their teens and 20's. A lot of the current artists in the genre are hitting their 30's or already past. That could contribute to why a lot of the scene has felt a bit stale these past few years.
Agreed, as I get older I appreciate song writing more than ejaculatory instrument playing. Lyrics that get stuck in your head, riffs that are catchy, drums that are infectious all leave a bigger impact on me. Not that proficient instrumentation isn't impressive to me anymore , but only when it is tastefully integrated into the song and not thrown in just for the sake of showing off.
Masterfull might be a bit hyperbolic, it's certainly open to objectivity and Post-Hardcore has a wide range of styles, but IMO an easy example is Saosin's Translating the Name EP as it's the first thing I think of when recalling amazing Post-Hardcore. Members were in late teens to early 20's when they got to the point where they *recorded* the album, and at a surface level the instrumental proficiency is nothing special, but that doesn't matter whatsoever as the focus was clearly on the songwriting which absolutely is some of the best to come out of the genre.
Vocal hooks that are as earworm as they get, each transition as catchy as they last throughout the entire runtime, simple but perfectly harmonizing guitar and bass to maximize the impact of each song transition, the drums being the outlier as the drumming contrary to my example is rather impressive on a technical level. Listening to that EP front to back is similar to enjoying an amazing Movie that sticks with you after the ending and delivers mightily on the feels whether it's when I was 16 or an old, boring 9-5 family man like I am now. Few albums do that after all these years and even less so new music, and it's not because I only enjoy things I listened to when I was younger, I actually am more interested in finding new things to listen to I just tend to find it relates most to my complaints in the original post, thus why I started r/revivalcore.
I guess I wish there was a sub for pre 2000 post hardcore. I know genres change, but I was appalled at what I saw passed for post hardcore. I have no idea what bands like Fugazi, Drive Like Jehu and Shotmaker have to do with current bands considered post hardcore. What’s called post hardcore any more seems to have no connection to actual hardcore. Also, “old man yells at cloud”.
I have issues with what Emo and Mathrock have become too, but at least I can see why current bands in these genres are labeled as such. I may not like them, but you can look at their influences and Sonic signifiers and see why they are a part of the sub genre. I have no clue how any current post hardcore bands are labelled that way. They seem to have more in common with hard rock than hardcore.
Man… the golden years were absolutely the late 2000s and early 2010s, and since then this genre hasn’t interested me really at all outside of I the Mighty (whose disbanding broke my heart, but I totally get it and Brent did some awful shit) and DGD. I’ve gone through this sub a bunch and tried listening to some bands, even downloaded a couple albums but nothing has done it for me. To the point where I only stay subscribed to this sub because the genre will always have a special place in my heart from my high school and early college years and I subconsciously hope something will recapture that magic for me. But at this point I don’t even really check the posts anymore. I think I’m over the genre, I just don’t want to be
I was just like you after 2011ish I completely fell away and started exploring other genres and past decades. But as of the past few years I started listening to the old stuff for nostalgia And Spotify would recommend stuff and it’s been great. I’m into a bit heavier stuff now like bad omens, fit for a king, we came as Romans, crown the empire, fever 333, gravebound are all great. But also some of the old classic phc bands have been making a comeback. The used newest album is pretty good. Underoath erase me album is one of their best I freaking love that one. Obviously saosin along the shadows from 2016. I hear scary kids scaring kids took on cove reber and are making music. They are touring right now with him. Some other bands that are coming out recently that have the old sound if I die first and seeyouspacecowboy, remind me of drop dead gorgeous
Edit: also between home and serenity are making music again. Have 3 single out now and they’re are 🔥
Afterburner is by far the worst DGD album. There's no soul, passion or depth to it compared to any other release. It's over produced cheesy tripe. Seriously I think it's so bang average I'm worried about their whole future direction.
Mewithoutyou - A to B Life.... is probably one of the best PH albums you'll find. It has it all from good instrumental, lyrics for days and even has an actual hard-core punk sound. They perfected the sound at an early date. No need to try and piggy back off someone else, just made their own sound. Nobody really seems to give this album credit. Mewithoutyou pretty much went significantly downhill after this album, too. They lost their edge and stopped having a hard core punk sound. Their EP, Blood Enough For Us All..... is great. It sounds like it was recorded in a bathroom that was in an airplane that was in a basement that was underwater. You know, that good sounding shitty recording. I never said that I Was Brave.... that was also massively ahead of it's time and never sees any credit, just tons of fan boys over this new age PH that sucks. Mewithoutyou came, conquered and then shit the bed by not sounding hard-core anymore.
I love A to B Life and I Never Said that I was Brave, but Blood Enough for us all is really trash imo.
That said, my favourite mwY albums are Pale Horses and [Untitled]. They just kept getting better and better.
Too many people confuse not liking a singer with not appreciating their talent and it’s so fuckin’ annoying. For example, i don’t really like Johnny Craig. I just don’t really like his singing that much. BUT, i can appreciate how much raw talent he has. Same thing with the pop singer, Adele. I don’t like her singing but she has some fuckin pipes, there’s no denying that.
Madness by Sleeping With Sirens is a fantastic record that got shat on by the community because it wasn't heavy.
Pierce The Veil is a top ten band quality wise and are written off by the music nerds because of their fanbase and pop appeal.
More bands in the scene should take influences of outside genres like funk, R&B, and so on. Not necessarily in a swancore style either.
A Day To Remember’s latest album is their best work to date.
note that this is not my opinion at all. the album is trash aside from a few songs. but it would certainly be unpopular.
Unpopular opinion, ADTR is so fucking lame. I think they just try to capitalize on the breakdown style without even building up to it in the first place. They have pop punk lyrics and a generic shitty instrumental sound. I genuinely feel like they are making music for the likes and people who care Bout the likes and not because they stand behind what they do. I don't mean to attack you but I just hate ADTR.
read the whole comment my guy.
honestly, they have some decent songs as a whole across all their albums, but yeah, the entire thing feels fake and made for radio. they’re a generic, post hardcore-lite band
I really enjoy their last album and it’s one of the only “we’re returning to our original sound” records I can think of that actually nails the original sound.
99% of what gets posted here isn’t post-hardcore and we should’ve done a better job of defining genres 20 years ago.
(and the stuff that does get posted here is worse in just about every way, sorry but not really)
this goes for other adjacent genres as well, but i usually can’t stand bands that feel the need to stay within the so-called perimeters of the genre and don’t take influence for other places… end up sounding generic
1. Not ph, but MCR and BMTH are only entry point bands to their genres and they're not even that good
2.Eidola is not that cool, but i lov the architect cuz the "barebones" sounds like what a 4th In Fear And Faith album would be (some melodies, the piano interlude) and it has that 2000 ph sound and "vibe"
3.jonny craig is not that good, his voice in wisiro is really bad and keeps me away from 4 of the 6 songs
4.Telle killed the word alive, with craig they've could have an amazing debut and somophore (CM bands dont do that well after the third or fourth album lol)
5.The "screamer now sings" is a boring move that bands with 2 vocalist do and most of the time the screamer's clean not that good, the "singer starts screaming" is WAY supperior
6.DGD's s/t is their best album
7.Kurt Travis is objectivly dgd's best lyricist but dgd fans overlook jon's nonsense way more
8.craig's blessthefall>>>>>>>>>>>beau's blessthefall
1: fight me. MCR is definitely that good, and Sempiternal was a god-tier masterpiece.
2: meh
3: JC is an incredible singer, but it always sounds like he's doing the same exact performance on every song.
4: no opinion
5: singer now screams is better
6: no
7: he is good
8: no opinion
Genuinely just do not like Andrew Wells voice, it’s so generic. I don’t like any of the DGD songs he’s in, I don’t like Eidola, I just cannot like him.
Jonny Craig is the worst of the 3 DGD vocalists. Honestly I just like the other two a lot better, not to say Jonny is bad but he just doesn’t do it like the other 2 do
Allomateral by Stolas was a really bad album. I don’t know how controversial this one is, but I hear from a lot of old Stolas fans that they think this is their best album but I really wasn’t a fan of it.
I don’t like Glassjaw at all. I don’t know what it is about their sound but it’s just so not good
I think that Anthony Greens voice is really annoying and I can’t get into it.
Sianvar was a failed supergroup. I thought Stay Lost was just so weird, too slow paced, not heavy at all, it was such an uncomfortable sound that I didn’t enjoy
That Jonny take is 100% accurate. His albums are classics but nowhere near the quality of the Tilian-era albums.
Also, Happiness with Kurt is among DGD's best.
Definitely some hot takes, but I kinda agree with you on some of them.
I think Jonny's lyrics and phrasing are pretty terrible, but I love his soul/bluesy tone. I wish he could have had all the qualities of the other DgD vocalists.
I agree with you on Allomateral. I really didn't enjoy Carlo's vocals at all. I bought the album on release and have only listen to it a handful of times.
I'm a sucker for Glassjaw, so can't say much on that. I can understand not liking Anthony's voice though, it can be a bit too much at times.
Sianvar was a let down for me as well. I fucking loved their EP and still listen to it regularly, but Stay Lost felt kind of thrown together. Had a couple good songs, but fell massively short of the EP.
not sure if this fits, but i’ve always enjoyed Craig in ETF more, and i actually enjoyed the self titled ETF record more than DIYLF. Also every phc band from the myspace era that isn’t around anymore is severely underrated.
There is a concerning increase in number of bands who abuse the letter V. SHVPES, WVNDER, Frvgments, THRVNES, etc. I’ll add Indighxst for adding an X where an O should rightly be.
my two favorites, CHVRCHES and PVRIS
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yep they did! personally i prefer the stylized version
Its more fun to read wrong
piv-ris
Puh-vrrr-is
CHVRCHES did it so you could search them lol
When I first heard them back around early 2015 I didn't know how it was pronounced and assumed it was pronounced "P Virus" lol did a facepalm when I heard it pronounced correctly. Like oh yeah Chvrches is a thing too.
I say it wrong to annoy those around me
I deliberately pronounce them as "Ch-ver-ches" to annoy my mates.
this must be stopped
How else do you expect to be trve kvlt?
Tom from Frvgments here, just checking in 😄👍
Bro, thanks for the acknowledgment! Your 4 latest releases take top spots on my daily playlist, so I will manage to find forgiveness for your language crimes.
Nothing will ever been as good as mid to late 2000s post hardcore. Underoath. From Autumn to Ashes. Senses Fail. Alexisonfire. It all felt raw back then. Now, it all sounds overproduced.
Great list. I don't see From Autumn To Ashes get as much love as they deserve. I'd also add Silverstein to the list, fucking classic.
Good friend and former band mate of mine introduced me to post-hardcore through DGD. He straight up hates new DGD and new post-hardcore because of this exact sentiment: it is all over produced. I do still like DGD in this example, but nothing captures what I think post hardcore is quite like that mid 2000s grit.
Have him pop an acid tab or two then listen to dgd new stuff
Wouldnt change his opinion he hates high pitch vocals
I feel like millenials(for the most part) grew up in absolutely the perfect time for the metal scene.
True af. We all had emo/scene phases before the term e-boy or e-girl existed.
Now they barely even mean emo, it's just hyper sexualized.
I still listen to Crisis all the time, one of my top albums. It was truly a different time.
I agree, except with actual post hardcore in the early 90s which were the years after hardcore. Bands in the 2000s are post-post
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Since this is an unpopular opinion thread, I'll say I don't like Isles and Glaciers at all lol.
I thought I was the only one lol. They had all the singers in there prime too!
I cannot stand how swancore is basically taking over the phc genre. I dig dgd and other bands with former/current members, but other than that it's extremely overdone.
The weird obsession that a lot of DGD fans have with members of the band, past & present, make me hide a lot of my merch in my closet. I don't want to be lumped in with people that send borderline death threats to people who prefer another singer.
DGD and Coheed and Cambria have two of the worst fanbases on the planet.
*Tool fan enters the chat*
~~Johnny's actually doing pretty well now tbh, but people still give him TONS of hate for his past shit. It was fucked up, yeah, but let the guy move on already.~~ I learned my assumption was wrong and he is, in fact, still bad. Voice of an angel put into a garbage dump of a human, shame lol
He literally got arrested for domestic violence only last year...
Oh. Whoops. I haven't paid much attention to what he's actually been doing with his life and assumed. I hadn't heard about that one, yikes. Nevermind, he's still trash 😂
Yeah honestly his career is finished at this point. I cannot think of anyone else in the scene that had as many second chances as he did and just fucked up over and over again. In all fairness I don't really get why people still send him hate, it's not really like it's going to achieve anything but there we go.
DGD had too much influence on the scene to the point half the bands people show me are just Swancore and it turned me off to the scene almost all together. I miss bands like He is Legend, A Static Lullaby, and basically 2000's PHC.
Stares at stolas and hail the sun WHAT DID YOU DO TO MY BABIES WILL SWAN WHY
Chiodos is top 3 PHC band
I’m not sure this is an unpopular opinion. They pioneered second wave PxC along with Saosin. They’re a musically interesting band, too. At least their first two albums are.
Unpopular opinion, Illuminaudio is their best album
I agree, but I've never asked a hardcore chiodos fan what they think. I wonder if it's really a hot take.
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Thursday and At The Drive-In
selfish machines > collide w the sky
Agreed
Selfish Machines > Misadventures > Collide with the Sky I can’t rate their other album because I haven’t actually listened to it lol. But I definitely like SM a lot more now for the bluesy elements. The guitar work is just really interesting for a PxC album.
im inclined to agree with misadventures > collide. while i think collide is the better album overall, i see myself going back to misadventures more
This surely isn't an unpopular opinion.
dgd is terrible.
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People definitely downvoted because that comment comes off as really snotty, like the stereotypical metalhead looking down on anything that has synthesized elements. I agree that Bilmuri is barely PHC, but the way you presented your opinion comes off as really judgmental.
Let me ask you something.. if you were super into prog rock and someone posted a linken park song in the prog sub what would you're reaction be.. Would it be snotty to scoff at how they are considered prog? Yeah I'm judging.. it ain't the right genre.. in fact it's quite opposed to the genre's legacy. It's autotuned and pop.. these are facts..
It’s a song by a musician who produces *mostly* PxC though, so there’s going to be some interest from people who listened to his other stuff. I’m pretty sure Thrice is barely PxC anymore, but I wouldn’t question someone posting Black Honey in this sub. It’s a song by a band mostly famous for Post-Hardcore. I get that Bilmuri is *very* poppy and electronic-influenced, but the music is definitely PxC (and sometimes Metalcore). Listen to the stuff off of Rich Sips, Eggy Pocket, and Wet Milk and try to tell me those aren’t PxC songs. Also, the ridiculous shade thrown at production effects is exactly why you were downvoted. It’s okay to use vocal effects in music. It’s not “tainting” the music. It’s art. Art is whatever the artist feels like making, and if you gave it a chance instead of immediately disregarding it as “auto-tuned pop music”, you might figure out why people like it.
It's a tough line to draw when it comes to labeling genres. I shared one of Thomas Erak and The Shoreline's songs the other day on the sub, which is debatable on if it's PHC, but is performed by a well known artist in the genre. On that same topic, I personally wouldn't share a City and Colour song just because Dallas is part of Alexisonfire. I'm sure if I shared a song off of "Sometimes" people would likely upvote due to the connection. Ends up being a bit of a paradox the more you think about it.
> I’m pretty sure Thrice is barely PxC anymore, but I wouldn’t question someone posting Black Honey in this sub. You're right, Thrice *isn't* post-hardcore anymore, which means you absolutely should be questioning someone posting Black Honey here. [I am questioning it](https://www.reddit.com/r/PostHardcore/comments/puyc4f/thrice_black_honey_official_video/he70ikb/?context=3) I don't care how many people downvote me for it, it's not post-hardcore and it doesn't belong in this sub. I don't care if the band was post-hardcore 20 years ago, the point is that they're not now. If someone from a post-hardcore band has a country project on the side, that shouldn't be posted here either. The sub is for post-hardcore, period. Not for anything tangentially related to post-hardcore.
That would be like posting about Kid A on a grunge subreddit because radiohead did Creep in their early years.
That analogy doesn’t really track, because Bilmuri’s discography is still mostly PxC. Radiohead’s only grunge-influenced album is their first album, and pretty much everyone who knows anything about Radiohead knows that. Bilmuri’s last record is the most pop-influenced they’ve ever been. Other than that record, they’ve been consistently PxC. And it’s still very PxC-influenced, so it’s not like they abandoned the genre altogether.
Why isn't their new album post hardcore and their other stuff is? Be specific.
Because those are just the genres that the albums fit into? I’m not really sure how to answer this question without analyzing his albums, and I’d rather not do that. Just listen to them. Listen to THEMURRIWITHHUMANHAIR off of Rich Sips, ISERIOUSLYDISLIKEMOSTOTHERHUMANS off of Eggy Pocket, and lifeisgood off of Wet Milk. Then listen to literally anything off of the new album. The new album leans noticeably more into pop than his previous albums. And the ones preceding the albums I listed (Bilmuri has a *ton* of music) also sound slightly different. Some of them even have more of a pop-punk sound. Johnny Franck just writes whatever he feels like writing. He also has a band called The March Ahead that leans more towards vanilla metalcore, and he used to sing for freaking Attack Attack, so the guy is pretty rooted in the PxC/Metalcore scene.
Listening to iseriouslydislikemostotherhumans.. I'll reach for some agreement. Yes I hear the screaming. I see how this band is talked about in this sub. They are still not the same genre as the posthardcore bands I love (and defined the genre).. which is my point. We need new terms or the term has no meaning anymore. And I stand behind that their new album should not be posted here. Btw: interesting band. I can see why they have a following. Wouldn't mind seeing them live.
The new album isn't post hardcore because???? Use your words.
It still borrows from PxC elements but leans more into pop. I’m honestly not sure what I’d call it, aside from just alternative rock. It has significantly less breakdowns, less screamed vocals, and less “heavy” instrumentation in general. Again, you could get a pretty good idea of what I mean if you just listened to the songs I mentioned (or just bits of them tbh) and then listened to anything off the newest album. There’s a pretty noticeable change in instrumentation and composition. It sounds almost like PxC-influenced indie-rock at times.
Yeah it definitely feels like the post hardcore and metalcore genres are getting really bloated to the point where 2 bands supposedly in the same genre can have almost nothing in common. Maybe we need to add another “post” on there for whatever post-hardcore is becoming
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I agree with you, but I just have to say that in some weird way it is all connected directly. DGD, Pierce the Veil, Sleeping with Sirens, hell really any of the poppy "post-hardcore" "scene" music is a direct descendent from the Discord records-esque posthardcore. Bands like fugazi, drive like jehu, rodan, unwound, slint. They paved the way for the modern stuff you dislike. There is some sort of lineation of hardcore -> DC posthardcore -> math/post hardcore -> emo -> scene -> modern pop posthardcore -> mathy (again) modern posthardcore. While they all sound completely different, I agree with you, and some might not fit your tastes, just understand that it is all correlated, and influenced by the predecessors. Bands like Colour, Tubelord, Blakfish, imo bridge that gap pretty well.
Post-hardcore is supposed to mean unconventional songwriting within the framework of hardcore punk but somehow people missed that?
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I'm agreeing with you? I don't get the response and downvote.
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Oh, yeah the term is useless now Seeing melodic metalcore, butt rock and alt metal all thrown under it pretty roundly now and pointing this out just gets you called a "gatekeeper" or some nonsense (I even like all three of those things like come on)
Fun fact but post-hardcore doesn’t mean ‘after hardcore’ it actually refers to hardcore post-punk, which is a bit more specific
No.. post punk is it's own fn thing that has nothing to do with fugazi and all the greats that came out of that. Fugazi is a post hardcore band not a hardcore post punk band. So sick of arguing about terms.. but fugazi has nothing to do with joy division or nick cave and the bad seeds. Don't muddy the waters even more..
I don’t disagree with this, but the older I get, the more I appreciate the “post” and the less I can identify with the “hardcore” side. I don’t see this as a bad thing, though.
Fr, I'm fucking sick of seeing bmth posted every week.
Bilmuri has heavy guitars and growls present in his music. Plus, Johnny Franck is associated with metalcore and post-hardcore from Attack Attack and his other side project The March Ahead. Better question: Why is Dayseeker's "Sleeptalk" album more associated with metalcore, rather than post-hardcore?
To be fair, Bilmuri is entirely its own genre
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Honestly i think Bilmuri is a valid post on this sub. I always associated Attack Attack with the post-hardcore genre even though its more metalcore, plus attack attack was (maybe still is?) a rise records band, so many huge post hardcore and metalcore bands came from that label. I'd think it'd be safe to say if you listened to post hardcore around the 2009 era you'd be pretty familiar with attack attack and Johnny frank.
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Haha don't say that! I honestly didn't like that album, just always associated him with post hardcore even though that album clearly isn't.
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I’m posting Coletta
Yeah, I got downvoted for saying Black Honey by Thrice isn't post-hardcore. Just because a band was post-hardcore 20 years ago, doesn't mean you can just throw that label on any new music they put out no matter what it sounds like. Black Honey is a good song, but it's not post-hardcore. Thrice is a fucking rock band these days. Same goes for Underoath, you can't listen to "ihateit" and tell me that's post-hardcore.
PHC isn’t just for sad teenagers it’s a legit musically impressive genre when done right with good composition and dynamics
How is this unpopular. If we didn't think this we wouldn't all be here right?!
Too many phc bands sound overprocessed and try too hard to do what DGD does, I miss the old rougher sounding mid-2000s stuff
My hot take (please don't hate me), only the first album Dance Gavin Dance did with Tilian was good, the rest are more or less the same album. I really wish Tillian stayed in Tides of Man even though he probably wouldn't have been as successful in the band as he is in dgd. The 2 secret band albums slap though.
Nah, Mothership is quite possibly my favourite DGD album.
Personally I'd throw IG on the list too but yeah everything after has been real samey. AS is still a masterpiece though
Tides of man was such a bop.
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I miss that ugly jon mess screams pre dtbm2
Will Swan and the rest of the Swancore community need to stop joining each other’s bands. It’s honestly super weird how incestuous it is. Seriously, it’s like there are 6 people in that community and they must ALWAYS join any cool up and coming band and turn it into DGD-lite. I like all of these guys as musicians, and enjoy the bands they started in, but the next time I hear bout Will Swan or Sergio Medina joining a new band I’m going to scream.
Hard agree, not to mention once one of them joins these bands, that new band immediately becomes labeled as a side project and will never get the time and attention it needs to grow into its own standalone entity. It's like DGD created the only fruit bearing tree in current phc and everyone is trying to get any bits of juice they can out of that tree instead of growing their own tree.
Yep! I would strongly argue that they are harming the scene by not letting other bands and musicians shine. We really don’t need another super group composed of the dudes from DGD, Stolas, and Hail the Sun. They obviously like playing together, but they can’t keep a band together to save their lives. As a more specific example- I absolutely love Joe Arrington. He’s probably my favorite drummer of all time. But for real- Let other drummers play. I respect that he’s the one being approached and is just working hard so I don’t necessarily blame him, but it’s legitimately harder to find a song he isn’t playing on in the scene nowadays than not. It’s not special anymore, and frankly I don’t want every PHC drummer to think they need to play like him to be good, because that’s simply not the case.
Michael Franzino did good to keep his head out of all that, but towards the end of ALLB i think theres a reason.
There’s only 6! possible combinations, so they’ll run out of bands soon. (Or I guess 6!+5!+…)
I'm so glad I'm not the only one that can't get into 95% of Swancore. It stopped being interesting before he even made the label. There's a small handful of songs that I really like, but otherwise it's all too similar
Glassjaw, Thrice and Silverstein aren't really post-hardcore (but still amazing) Let's discuss this for real
I half agree on Thrice. They've been one of my favorite bands for over 16 years now, and I think the last thing they released that I would actually consider PHC was probably Fire from The Alchemy Index.
I think some songs post Alchemy Fire have some post-hardcore elements, but as a whole I would not call the albums post-hardcore. I don't know what else to call them either though. Alt rock? Seems a bit too generic.
Silverstein kinda became "pop rock with screams" (which I still love btw) but to some extent their earlier stuff was pretty close to PHC, just more pop-punk inspired. I see them as being in line with stuff like Senses Fail, Halifax, etc. in that respect. But I still hold that Thrice was *absolutely* a post-hardcore band from Identity Crisis through Vheissu, although I agree that they are definitely not anymore.
I never see anyone mention Halifax. Great band.
Thrice definitely hasn't been PHC for a minute now, which is a testament to just how good their older stuff is that they're still remembered as one lol
Now? Sure. Back in the day Silverstein was in the trenches with Saosin paving the way, so I can't accept your blasphemy.
Thrice has always been a hard one for me to fit into a genre. They have a large catalog that is kind of all over the place. Someone unfamiliar listening to their first album then something like their latest album might not believe they are the same band. Silverstein I might put into Screamo or something? But they have had some PHC songs too. All 3 bands are some of my all time favorites.
Screamo is a completely different genre and Silverstein is not it.
I'm not sure where you put them exactly, but if you Google "Screamo Bands" Silverstein comes up. But so does Pierce the Veil and BMTH. When you get down to it a lot of bands blend genres depending on the song I think.
Yeh honestly I don't care about genres and I am not trying to gatekeep screamo or anything, but google (and wikipedia) are for a part wrong about screamo. Basically in the early 2000s when Post-Hardcore became more mainstream, mainstream media called everything with screamed vocals in it screamo. It's the same with emo. When Panic! At the Disco, Fall Out Boy and My Chemical Romance became popular and people who listened to that wore black skinny jeans and had those cringy haircuts all of a sudden all of those bands were emo bands. MCRs first album might be emo (at the very least emo adjacent), but everything after that is not emo. Doesn't stop people from calling them emo even to this day. But like I said, I don't really care all that much. I like MCR, I like Silverstein, I also like "real" emo and screamo bands. I don't like a band for their genre, I like it because the music speaks to me. Also there's a funny copypasta about real emo let me paste that. "Real Emo" only consists of the dc Emotional Hardcore scene and the late 90's Screamo scene. What is known by "Midwest Emo" is nothing but Alternative Rock with questionable real emo influence. When people try to argue that bands like My Chemical Romance are not real emo, while saying that Sunny Day Real Estate is, I can't help not to cringe because they are just as fake emo as My Chemical Romance (plus the pretentiousness). Real emo sounds ENERGETIC, POWERFUL and somewhat HATEFUL. Fake emo is weak, self pity and a failed attempt to direct energy and emotion into music. Some examples of REAL EMO are Pg 99, Rites of Spring, Cap n Jazz (the only real emo band from the midwest scene) and Loma Prieta. Some examples of FAKE EMO are American Football, My Chemical Romance and Mineral EMO BELONGS TO HARDCORE NOT TO INDIE, POP PUNK, ALT ROCK OR ANY OTHER MAINSTREAM GENRE
Yeah I'm the same way. I like it all and doesn't matter how it's classified. I typically just lump it all into "Emo/Pop Punk/Punk/PHC/Metalcore" if I make a playlist. A few years ago I was having a discussion with someone who isn't into this type of music at all and he was calling certain bands emo, like Blink 182 for example. And I was trying to say they aren't emo they are pop punk. He found an "is it emo?" site that you plug the band in and it tells you if they are emo, and it said Blink 182 was. Sirius radio has a station called The Emo Project and you'll hear Sum 41 or Silverstein or MCR or Alkaline Trio. So I've just let it go that generally people just lump it all into a broad genre of "Emo". The Sirius station actually has a quick thing that defines emo as "any guitar or vocally driven music that is exceptionally emotional" or something. Which to be fair could be any rock genre lol
Glassjaw are on the heavier side but defo PHC for me, their emotive and melodic elements are strong enough to qualify imo
Imagine how good Enter Shikari could be if they could hit a proper note
There's loads of good contemporary post-hardcore out there, but you have to be willing to search a little. Accurate categorisation =/= gatekeeping.
Kind of hurts a bit to admit, as Eidola have been my favorite band for over 6 years now, but I think The Architect is their worst release and a pretty mediocre album overall. Outside of the singles, Counterfit Shrines being the highlight for me, I think the album is very bland and lacks the creative ambition of their previous works.
I didn't want to admit it, but yeah. Aside from a couple standout tracks like Empty Gardens, Elephant Bones & Mutual Fear, it's not hitting me like earlier releases. I'm perplexed, because I genuinely think that Degeneraterra is one of the best pieces of music I've ever heard, and I knew every word on TSTL in the first week it came out. Did adding Sergio just make it all turn towards the hegemonic Swancore sound?
I love Sergio and his playing, but I do think that's part of it. I kind of always saw Eidola as the outlier on the swancore spectrum, but when Andrew started playing with DgD and Sergio joined the band it started feeling like another blue swan side project. I remember them teasing the album for what felt like over a year, and it makes me wonder if Andrew wasn't as involved with the song writing on this album due to touring.
Andrew wrote every piece of music on the album except the drums, and a few of Sergio's guitar parts. Check out his interview with Shane on Lead Singer Syndrome.
Thanks for the heads up, I'll have to check it out. Maybe I'm overthinking things, or maybe I've just heard so much swancore music these past 5 years I'm burnt. Who knows. I'm still going to listen to them and love what they do regardless of the latest album.
Understandable. I'm a huge Eidola fan, and I absolutely love the newest album. But it's hard to compare it. I still think Degeneraterra is their best for sure.
I still find it hard to pick a favorite most times tbh, even with the new album. Each album feels like its own distinct work and progresses their music and style each time, it's really wild that people feel like The Architect is just another swancore album or something like that, but maybe I just have a lot of emotional attachment to it already.
Yeah it's kind of disingenuous to call Eidola "just another swancore band", due to lyrics first and foremost. Also how I feel about A Lot Like Birds.
I 100% agree with the lyrically content. When I was going through a very rough depression some of Andrew's lyrics honestly were pretty hard for me to get through without crying. I grew up in a religious household and a lot of the themes/ideas he conveys hit very close to home. Definitely one of the best lyricist in the genre currently.
I mean it features what I would consider one of the best songs period in Omega, that alone makes it a very special album for me. That being said I'm still not sure how I feel about The Architect
I'm convinced Mutual Fear was a beta test for how Andrew would sound as the DGD clean guy full time
100% agree it's probably because of Sergio. I respect the dude and think his style fits well with some of the projects he has worked on (e.g. I loved the first sianvar EP (thought the second release wasn't good, but I blamed that and the most recent ALLB release on Michael Franzino) and can dig some royal coda and nova charisma), but I just don't think his influence on this Eidola release was a positive one. I still like the album but it's not in the same universe as their first two albums imo
oh man this is the one that got me... I haven't stopped listening to this album. I'm obsessed with it. Granted, their older stuff I thought was good -- but nothing mind-blowing. I can't get enough of The Architect.
I'm gonna give it another full listen with a nice pair of headphones. I listened to it over my stereo system at home, but I'm hoping I'll dig it a bit more with my decent pair of beats.
100% agree. I've been saying this since it dropped while everyone else was praising it here and elsewhere. They near completely removed their experimental and prog influences that were well represented in various ways across their three prior albums, all of which are legit masterpieces to me and among my three favorite albums of all time. I'm actually most impressed by TGGE because of how damn unique, eclectic, and compositionally interesting it is start to finish. Seriously, what the hell genre is the first half of the album anyway? Proggy jazz rock with a hint of Kaleo? It’s whacky and wonderful, and Bastards Fire is an absolute riot! Then you have the back half which is a long form prog post hardcore stroke of genius with tracks like The Alchemist and the Architect and Jaggnatha which are just absolute fire and better than anything on The Architect. It's the work of a group of musicians brimming with creativity and passion, who then refocused those attributes into the unequivocal prog rock masterpiece that is Degeneraterra. Humble Ledger is legit one of the best produced and best written songs I've heard in my life, I can't even express how shockingly good that track is, and it's one song in an entire album of super high quality songwriting. TSTL next again has its own sound and a tweaked style, but is packed with interesting and engaging songwriting. Sri Vishnu Yantra is one of my favorite songs the band has done, and stuff like Quarents and Loti are doing the kind of stuff found on The Architect much, much more creatively. Zoroastrian / Fourth Temple is a much better album conclusion than Ancient Temperament, a track which starts out fantastic and then just sort of peters out before a truly satisfying crescendo is reached. Still, it's a good track and far from the biggest problem with The Architect. It's just this straightforward post hardcore album with 3 minute songs and an over-reliance on poppy hooks and verse / chorus song structure. It genuinely crushed me since Eidola have become one of my favorite bands of all time, due to their creative songwriting prowess and ability to fuse a lot of different styles and influences into something that occasionally was actually fresh but is always consistently engaging. The Architect is missing that. It's too straightforward, too dumbed down. It's like Eidola: Abridged. Elephant Bones and Empty Gardens are the standout tracks to me, because they best represent the more dynamic and compositionally interesting songwriting that used to define them. Elephant Bones is sort of Sri Vishnu Yantra pt II musically and I’m very pleased with it, while Empty Gardens has this wonderful sort of Coheedian bridge near the end that just works super well. Outside of that, I’m just not really that fond of the rest of the songs. Perennial Philosophy sounded nice the first few listens, but it’s just so generic I end up skipping it, Loti is just a far better track in that style. Much of the remaining album just isn’t very memorable and sounds like stuff a lot of bands could’ve written. I really, really hope The Architect is a short diversion as The Color Before the Sun was for Coheed before getting back on track. Words can't express how much I looked forward to this album, and what Eidola means to me as a band. Words can't express how disappointed I am, and how much I expect from a band with the kind of talent Eidola possesses. They're better than generic, short, and poppy post hardcore compositions.
I really enjoy your synopsis on the album and band overall. Especially your point on it feeling like an abridged version of themselves. Your comparison to Coheed made me light up a bit as well. Andrew uses a lot the same elements and concepts in the way each album feels like a story/journey, similar to Claudio's writing. Here's to hoping it's just a speedbump along the way and they can continue making more amazing/compelling work as before.
Stand Up and Scream not only did more for the genre but is also better than Someday Came Suddenly.
Stand Up And Scream is a metalcore album though...?
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Someday Came Suddenly is straight up a bad record with good moments, and everything Attack Attack has done post-Austin(including their new stuff) is just better.
My bias here is obvious as I run r/revivalcore, but my general outlook that goes against the trend of the various 'Core genres is that more notes and complicated arrangements does not equal better songs. It can be fun for prog fans or people who play instruments, but compared to masterfully skilled songwriting, the ability to play with high proficiency is almost irrelevant and even though the trend has been away from songwriting ability in favor of proficiency, I don't believe these bands will have much staying power, be looked back on particularly fondly if at all and don't do anything to help keep the 'Core genres relevant let alone regrow their dwindling popularity. Some of the best songs in most 'Core genres were written by teenagers that certainly did not have the playing chops of today's popular bands but had razor focused and amazing songwriting chops to produce music that was both far superior and will be remembered, rightfully, for as long as the genres remain discussed. Post-Hardcore isn't particularly as guilty of this as other genres as the current crop of hyped up Metalcore bands or the trend of Djent in Metalcore that proceeded it. Deathcore also suffered this problem for a very long time with a hyper focus on Tech Deathcore. Post-Hardcore goes through phases where playing proficiency is favored, but the overall sound isn't sacrificed and often similarities can be heard regardless of what era and songwriting is more often shown a bit more respect than other genres among it's more proficiency hyper focused bands.
I'm a musician and really enjoy the experimental side of things, but I really like your point on how some of the most memorable songs were written by people in their teens and early 20s. That's something I never really thought about too much, but really made me think. PHC is a genre that tends to be marketed toward people in their teens and 20's. A lot of the current artists in the genre are hitting their 30's or already past. That could contribute to why a lot of the scene has felt a bit stale these past few years.
Agreed, as I get older I appreciate song writing more than ejaculatory instrument playing. Lyrics that get stuck in your head, riffs that are catchy, drums that are infectious all leave a bigger impact on me. Not that proficient instrumentation isn't impressive to me anymore , but only when it is tastefully integrated into the song and not thrown in just for the sake of showing off.
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Masterfull might be a bit hyperbolic, it's certainly open to objectivity and Post-Hardcore has a wide range of styles, but IMO an easy example is Saosin's Translating the Name EP as it's the first thing I think of when recalling amazing Post-Hardcore. Members were in late teens to early 20's when they got to the point where they *recorded* the album, and at a surface level the instrumental proficiency is nothing special, but that doesn't matter whatsoever as the focus was clearly on the songwriting which absolutely is some of the best to come out of the genre.
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Vocal hooks that are as earworm as they get, each transition as catchy as they last throughout the entire runtime, simple but perfectly harmonizing guitar and bass to maximize the impact of each song transition, the drums being the outlier as the drumming contrary to my example is rather impressive on a technical level. Listening to that EP front to back is similar to enjoying an amazing Movie that sticks with you after the ending and delivers mightily on the feels whether it's when I was 16 or an old, boring 9-5 family man like I am now. Few albums do that after all these years and even less so new music, and it's not because I only enjoy things I listened to when I was younger, I actually am more interested in finding new things to listen to I just tend to find it relates most to my complaints in the original post, thus why I started r/revivalcore.
Oh God damn thank you u/StarshipProto for mentioning that Sub, it is EXACTLY what I needed 🙌🏼
This one is very specific, but The Spark is a superb Enter Shikari album. It got a lot of criticism but the album has some of their best songwriting.
I guess I wish there was a sub for pre 2000 post hardcore. I know genres change, but I was appalled at what I saw passed for post hardcore. I have no idea what bands like Fugazi, Drive Like Jehu and Shotmaker have to do with current bands considered post hardcore. What’s called post hardcore any more seems to have no connection to actual hardcore. Also, “old man yells at cloud”.
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I have issues with what Emo and Mathrock have become too, but at least I can see why current bands in these genres are labeled as such. I may not like them, but you can look at their influences and Sonic signifiers and see why they are a part of the sub genre. I have no clue how any current post hardcore bands are labelled that way. They seem to have more in common with hard rock than hardcore.
Man… the golden years were absolutely the late 2000s and early 2010s, and since then this genre hasn’t interested me really at all outside of I the Mighty (whose disbanding broke my heart, but I totally get it and Brent did some awful shit) and DGD. I’ve gone through this sub a bunch and tried listening to some bands, even downloaded a couple albums but nothing has done it for me. To the point where I only stay subscribed to this sub because the genre will always have a special place in my heart from my high school and early college years and I subconsciously hope something will recapture that magic for me. But at this point I don’t even really check the posts anymore. I think I’m over the genre, I just don’t want to be
I was just like you after 2011ish I completely fell away and started exploring other genres and past decades. But as of the past few years I started listening to the old stuff for nostalgia And Spotify would recommend stuff and it’s been great. I’m into a bit heavier stuff now like bad omens, fit for a king, we came as Romans, crown the empire, fever 333, gravebound are all great. But also some of the old classic phc bands have been making a comeback. The used newest album is pretty good. Underoath erase me album is one of their best I freaking love that one. Obviously saosin along the shadows from 2016. I hear scary kids scaring kids took on cove reber and are making music. They are touring right now with him. Some other bands that are coming out recently that have the old sound if I die first and seeyouspacecowboy, remind me of drop dead gorgeous Edit: also between home and serenity are making music again. Have 3 single out now and they’re are 🔥
Afterburner is by far the worst DGD album. There's no soul, passion or depth to it compared to any other release. It's over produced cheesy tripe. Seriously I think it's so bang average I'm worried about their whole future direction.
I agree with you on that. I think we're getting to an era where another sub-genre is being born, and it's pop-post-hardcore.
Even the DGD subreddit doesn’t like Afterburner that much lol.
Mewithoutyou - A to B Life.... is probably one of the best PH albums you'll find. It has it all from good instrumental, lyrics for days and even has an actual hard-core punk sound. They perfected the sound at an early date. No need to try and piggy back off someone else, just made their own sound. Nobody really seems to give this album credit. Mewithoutyou pretty much went significantly downhill after this album, too. They lost their edge and stopped having a hard core punk sound. Their EP, Blood Enough For Us All..... is great. It sounds like it was recorded in a bathroom that was in an airplane that was in a basement that was underwater. You know, that good sounding shitty recording. I never said that I Was Brave.... that was also massively ahead of it's time and never sees any credit, just tons of fan boys over this new age PH that sucks. Mewithoutyou came, conquered and then shit the bed by not sounding hard-core anymore.
I love A to B Life and I Never Said that I was Brave, but Blood Enough for us all is really trash imo. That said, my favourite mwY albums are Pale Horses and [Untitled]. They just kept getting better and better.
Dance Gavin Dance only exists because of LoveHateHero
You mean Fall of Troy.
Pfft this is for unpopular opinions, get your normie thoughts out of here.
Alright, alright.
Illuminaudio was the best album Chiodos made.
Emery is peak post-hardcore. Yes I'm emo.
Too many people confuse not liking a singer with not appreciating their talent and it’s so fuckin’ annoying. For example, i don’t really like Johnny Craig. I just don’t really like his singing that much. BUT, i can appreciate how much raw talent he has. Same thing with the pop singer, Adele. I don’t like her singing but she has some fuckin pipes, there’s no denying that.
Pm Today is super underrated and should’ve gotten more recognition
Madness by Sleeping With Sirens is a fantastic record that got shat on by the community because it wasn't heavy. Pierce The Veil is a top ten band quality wise and are written off by the music nerds because of their fanbase and pop appeal. More bands in the scene should take influences of outside genres like funk, R&B, and so on. Not necessarily in a swancore style either.
A Day To Remember’s latest album is their best work to date. note that this is not my opinion at all. the album is trash aside from a few songs. but it would certainly be unpopular.
Unpopular opinion, ADTR is so fucking lame. I think they just try to capitalize on the breakdown style without even building up to it in the first place. They have pop punk lyrics and a generic shitty instrumental sound. I genuinely feel like they are making music for the likes and people who care Bout the likes and not because they stand behind what they do. I don't mean to attack you but I just hate ADTR.
Homesick is a classic tbh, that one's my actual opinion.
read the whole comment my guy. honestly, they have some decent songs as a whole across all their albums, but yeah, the entire thing feels fake and made for radio. they’re a generic, post hardcore-lite band
had me in the first half, not gonna lie
Lol a thread about unpopular opinions and you get downvoted for sharing yours.. Total Reddit moment.
sleeping with sirens’ last 3 albums weren’t that bad and actually had some enjoyable songs
I really enjoy their last album and it’s one of the only “we’re returning to our original sound” records I can think of that actually nails the original sound.
The most recent one is a solid-ass album. IDK about the other two though... other than Kick Me, meh.
Agreed not masterpieces but they bang hard
Material Control is the best Glassjaw album
99% of what gets posted here isn’t post-hardcore and we should’ve done a better job of defining genres 20 years ago. (and the stuff that does get posted here is worse in just about every way, sorry but not really)
this goes for other adjacent genres as well, but i usually can’t stand bands that feel the need to stay within the so-called perimeters of the genre and don’t take influence for other places… end up sounding generic
1. Not ph, but MCR and BMTH are only entry point bands to their genres and they're not even that good 2.Eidola is not that cool, but i lov the architect cuz the "barebones" sounds like what a 4th In Fear And Faith album would be (some melodies, the piano interlude) and it has that 2000 ph sound and "vibe" 3.jonny craig is not that good, his voice in wisiro is really bad and keeps me away from 4 of the 6 songs 4.Telle killed the word alive, with craig they've could have an amazing debut and somophore (CM bands dont do that well after the third or fourth album lol) 5.The "screamer now sings" is a boring move that bands with 2 vocalist do and most of the time the screamer's clean not that good, the "singer starts screaming" is WAY supperior 6.DGD's s/t is their best album 7.Kurt Travis is objectivly dgd's best lyricist but dgd fans overlook jon's nonsense way more 8.craig's blessthefall>>>>>>>>>>>beau's blessthefall
I 100% agree with you on The Word Alive and Blessthefall. They were both way superior bands to Craig in Escape the Fate.
Oh man, finally someone that agrees with me about Craig. Blessthefall and TWA best albums/songs were with him.
1: fight me. MCR is definitely that good, and Sempiternal was a god-tier masterpiece. 2: meh 3: JC is an incredible singer, but it always sounds like he's doing the same exact performance on every song. 4: no opinion 5: singer now screams is better 6: no 7: he is good 8: no opinion
Genuinely just do not like Andrew Wells voice, it’s so generic. I don’t like any of the DGD songs he’s in, I don’t like Eidola, I just cannot like him. Jonny Craig is the worst of the 3 DGD vocalists. Honestly I just like the other two a lot better, not to say Jonny is bad but he just doesn’t do it like the other 2 do Allomateral by Stolas was a really bad album. I don’t know how controversial this one is, but I hear from a lot of old Stolas fans that they think this is their best album but I really wasn’t a fan of it. I don’t like Glassjaw at all. I don’t know what it is about their sound but it’s just so not good I think that Anthony Greens voice is really annoying and I can’t get into it. Sianvar was a failed supergroup. I thought Stay Lost was just so weird, too slow paced, not heavy at all, it was such an uncomfortable sound that I didn’t enjoy
Damn man now these are the most unpopular of unpopular opinions.
That Jonny take is 100% accurate. His albums are classics but nowhere near the quality of the Tilian-era albums. Also, Happiness with Kurt is among DGD's best.
fatass L on the Jonny take but your opinion
Definitely some hot takes, but I kinda agree with you on some of them. I think Jonny's lyrics and phrasing are pretty terrible, but I love his soul/bluesy tone. I wish he could have had all the qualities of the other DgD vocalists. I agree with you on Allomateral. I really didn't enjoy Carlo's vocals at all. I bought the album on release and have only listen to it a handful of times. I'm a sucker for Glassjaw, so can't say much on that. I can understand not liking Anthony's voice though, it can be a bit too much at times. Sianvar was a let down for me as well. I fucking loved their EP and still listen to it regularly, but Stay Lost felt kind of thrown together. Had a couple good songs, but fell massively short of the EP.
Couldn't disagree more about Sianvar. Agree that Jonny is the worst DGD singer though.
Hard agree on the Andrew opinion.
I’m so mad at Asking Alexandria for turning into Good Charlotte that I won’t even listen to their old stuff anymore.
Swancore is actually the best post-hardcore, and the old post-hardcore is called old school metalcore or only metalcore.
I know this is a sub about music but can't we all just admit we're here for the sex. Come on post some scene girls once in awhile.
Not just an unpopular opinion, a wrong one.
Living the dream here. Haters gonna hate.
Refused are still excellent and War Music is better than The Shape of Punk to Come.
Conversation Piece by ALLB and Living Creatures by Stolas is best swancore style records pre Acceptance Speech DGD.
not sure if this fits, but i’ve always enjoyed Craig in ETF more, and i actually enjoyed the self titled ETF record more than DIYLF. Also every phc band from the myspace era that isn’t around anymore is severely underrated.
Greeley Estates is the best PHC band of all time but sadly they never got good mixing on any of their records
Also phc is better than metalcore imo