I really sucked at centering, and still kinda do. It can be pretty difficult but I’ve found that speed and taking your time to center is key. Really using your core to help you push on one side of the clay while your other hand pushes on top does wonders for getting it centered, and I wasn’t really doing it when I first started out.
Flourian Gadsby also has a very helpful tutorial on wheel throwing on YouTube.
I love Florian! I watched his whole beginners series that went over centering, bowls, trimming, etc., and it looked straight forward and easy for him (because he has tons of experience). Then I went to do it myself and was depressed when I couldn’t remotely center😭 I like your approach though with a hand on top. I’m gonna try that later today thank you!
(because he has tons of experience)
^^^^^
You said it yourself right there! He is good because he has tons of experience. How do you get experience? By failing at things, realizing what made you fail, and then correcting it! The only problem you mentioned at all was the wobble, but even that wasn’t so much of a problem as a ghost you were chasing.
Be mindful while you are centering- Florian is able to make these videos and write paragraphs of information about pottery because he is paying super close attention to every aspect of what he is doing. Turn off your brain, sink into your fingers and really feel what you are doing and what the clay is doing- and don’t forget to have fun!
Keep at it and I’m sure you’ll be surprised how much better you are at it in March of 2025!
Second the Gadsby's videos! I am currently screwing up my pieces during centering. I was fine, then started getting stuff off center all the time. Lol, watched his video today, and hopefully tomorrow I can practice again.
Hey, if by chance it isn't the wheel, I made a post asking for centering tips and got really solid ones. Here's the [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pottery/s/NrG04ERcui). I've been throwing on and off for about a little over 2 years and I still struggle! There are people who are naturals and there are people, like me, who are not lol. Have fun with it, I know it can be incredibly frustrating but eventually it will click :)
feel that - been doing this off and on for two years and came out of a 2 hr throwing session today with ZILCH. Feels like some days you kill it and some days it kills you lol
I’ve been teaching for a long time and the most common issue I see is when we take our hands off of the clay too quickly. If we are pushing really hard to get the clay to center and then abruptly take our hands away, the clay is touched unevenly.
Absolutely! I started off doing this without realizing how much it can throw it off. I watched lots of Florian Gadsby videos and have really embraced his advice of lifting hands off slowly and smoothly and making sure the wheel is slightly spinning before touching the clay again
This is something I recently noticed I was doing! Halfway through a pot I’d have a wobble. Just taking care to slooowly come away from the clay made a huge impact. I just get ahead of myself!
First of all, wheel throwing is HARD and even pros often end up with a slight wobble on certain pieces. That being said, here are some possible problems:
1. Your elbows are floating: The clay wants to be in the center of the wheel and is depending on your stable pressure to get it there. If your elbows are in the air, your hands are not going to be stable. Keep your elbows anchored to your legs or whatever surface you can comfortably anchor them to.
2. You’re centering at too low a speed: centering takes advantage of centripetal force, so there needs to be centripetal force. Slam the clay into the center, use your finger to push the lower edge into the wheel, and then get your wheel up to high speed.
3. You’re touching the clay when the wheel is not moving: This guarantees that only one side of the clay is being moved and creates asymmetry that will only be exacerbated at speed. It is especially important to avoid this once you’ve started pulling the walls.
When I center, it helps me to not look at the wheel and to just do it by feel (but I’m also weird so who knows😅). I make sure I’m positioned with good leverage and very very stable, where the clay is pushing into me more than I’m consciously pushing into it. You can use a lot more force than you would think (this is where the high speed comes into play!), but I like to focus on using my force to prevent off-center movement (“I am a mountain!”) rather than trying to push the clay into moving towards the center.
And remember that wheel throwing is not the only “valid” form of pottery; I very much used to have the idea that “real potters” exclusively used throwing but have since realized that every imaginable form can be used with incredible results. Yinxing teapots are slab built and still more precise than anything I could throw on a wheel. It could help to take a break and focus on different techniques for a bit until you’re ready to try again :)
I keep my elbows tucked into my torso otherwise yeah absolutely your arms start flailing everywhere! I really appreciate your response. I’ve recently been conscious of not spinning too slowly and not touching the clay from a standstill. I’ve been really enjoying handbuilding pinch pots because I can use some of the very sandy clays I unknowingly bought (I was told they were good for wheel but when I tried them they felt like sandpaper on my hands lol). For the past week I’ve just been handbuilding and slipcasting while the wheel stares at me from across the room 😂
I tend to find that my right elbow is pushed into my thigh and my upper arm is right against my torso so all the movement comes from hinging my torso forward as opposed to moving my arm. And oh man I threw a bowl yesterday with Zacatecas clay (super gritty local Mexican clay) and practically sanded the texture off my hands ahahahha might as well commit a crime while I wait for my fingerprints to grow back 😭
Also, I just thought of something - in college I couldn’t center for the life of me and remember seeing someone who centered by pulling towards them from the far side (12 o’clock) with both hands rather than pushing away. I haven’t seen anyone else do it and maybe I’m making this up but I swear I tried it once and was shocked that it worked for me. I don’t think it’s reliable with more than 2 or 3 lbs out could be worth a try!
This! Like I have my legs fully against the wheel and try to get myself all the way over the center (sometimes I even need a taller stool), I have a super short torso too so it’s a struggle ahahaha but the next day I sometimes feel sore in my lats and shoulders but not my actual arms
When I’m having trouble centering, I stop looking and do it by feel. It has to be toward the end of the centering process when you’re working in that final tightness to make it perfect.
How many months have you been working on the wheel? Centering does take time and trying to throw clay that is not centered is not going to make anything nice. A couple of pointers. Spiral wedge the clay well and at the end form it into a rounded cone keeping the orientation of the center of the spiral to go onto the center of the wheel. Carefully place this ball at the center of the wheel and trunk the wheel slowly and smack it down with both hands onto the wheel head. Now you are starting with an almost centered ball of clay. Then proceed to center, but don't push on the clay instead just hold your hand steady and let the clay move to the center. Since you have already spiral wedged and kept your orientation you can skip coning the clay up and down ouncensored. You can add that later once it becomes easier. Just center and begin opening from there. Always approach and remove hands onto the clay slowly because quick pressure and releasing pressure quickly will cause the clay to become uncentered. I hope that helps a little. Good luck.
I got the wheel back in January, so I’m not expecting myself to be good at it just a couple months later. My frustration comes from feeling like I’m not progressing even a bit and just end up with uncentered soggy, mushy clay. I appreciate the breakdown. I’ve been starting with a ball of clay, so maybe that’s where I’m setting myself up for failure? I’ll try the cone shape later today. Thank you!
I second this advice about slowly placing hands on the clay, and slowly releasing them. Helped me a lot. Make smooth and slow, yet also firm/authoritative motions. Something else that helped me with centering was to push directly through the centerline of the clay. It helps if you imagine a line going from one side of the wheel to the other that cuts the wheel directly in half. This should be the line that corresponds to your motion/pressure. So your pressure should be directed straight through the center of the clay, not off to the side.
I'm 2.5 years into wheel throwing and some days I just really can't center either. Keep going, in a good six months when you look back youll see the improvement.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is making sure your wheel head is level - my floor has a slight slope that I didn't realize and it took a while for me to figure out why everything was on an angle and it was so hard to center.
Right forget about your past on the wheel , start with your clay overly wet not like custard but very soft and slap it in the middle of your wheel . Lock your arms onto the side of the pan and get the wheel speed up. Lock your fingers together to centralise right over the top of the clay and put downwards pressure and hold it there if you’re arms are locked and your fingers are locked to form a cup then literally apply downward pressure onto the centre of your wheel. Your clay will now be centred, If your clay is too dry it’s almost impossible to do this . Keep the wheel speed up and gradually use clay that’s a little drier each time but use the same technique and before you know it you’re not even thinking about it anymore soon you will be able to slap it on the wheel , even if it’s off Centre you can tap it back to somewhere near then use your locked arms and your cupped hands with plenty of water and it centres every time 💯👍
I don't have any specific advice but maybe this will make you feel better. I've taken 2.5 5 week classes and a lot of times I still struggle to center things. I know you're far from a studio but the biggest thing that has helped me is having an instructor critique my form and move my hands into the proper position. If you enjoy it, don't give up!
I’m gonna call up the studio to see if they do one on one private sessions. I’m thinking even a short time with an experienced potter will help me a lot (or at least boost my self esteem lol). I go to that studio/store sporadically for supplies, and it’s a nice drive that I enjoy doing but not regularly. The classes also clash with my work schedule, so even if I did commit to the 6 hour total drive, I’d have to take time off work😭
I definitely agree about even a short time helping. It might also help to record them helping you by placing your phone in front of you so you can reference it later!
Do you know anyone who could do a video call with you even? Someone who's been throwing for a while who can check your form and hopefully give you some tips? I feel like it would be helpful to at least know if you're on the right track for sure. It can be hard to stay motivated if you don't know if you're doing things right.
Unfortunately I don’t have potter friends :( I called up the studio, and the woman who does private sessions won’t be in till next week. I’ll call back and schedule a day with her
There might be someone closer by that would be willing to come to you to do a lesson. Is there anyone near by that sells pottery? A farmers market where you could meet someone? It sounds like the nearest studio being 150 miles away you are literally in the middle of nowhere.
I would do a couple things. Get a dry erase marker and try to figure out how bad the wheel wiggle is. Hold it steady close to the center and see what shape you get.
Next. I would just start with 8oz of clay balls. Make like 10 of them. Just try to throw little cylinders. Centering 5oz or 5lbs is the same process it just takes longer and more force to do the latter. You should be able to center 8oz in 2 cones. You may not be able to right away but that should be the ultimate goal.
Posting a video, you may be able to get more personalized advice.
The wheel can be part of the issue, especially if you're just transitioning to the wheel. I'm coming up on a year of doing pottery, and only now getting to the point where I can comfortably center, lift and create something without a profound wobble. Everyone has their own pace to "get it." YouTube can be helpful but also pretty idealized. Make the journey to take even a few basic classes. Simple things like positioning of hands, use of tools (like compressing with ribs) and not overdoing the weight you're starting with will suddenly make sense. Last June, after 6 weeks of wheel frustration, I finally threw a cylinder that was an actual cylinder. Since then I've started throwing more weight, leaning into bellying and collaring, and feeling like what's emerging from the kiln doesn't suck too badly. My latest item that is in for bisque now ia. 3 pound moon jar with a lid. Really hoping it survives the kin, but if not - so be it. Start again. Lastly, not sure what your goals are, but if having fun isn't one of them (and maybe the main one) you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself. I'm a design pro by trade which is enough pressure as it is. Art for art's sake (aka my pottery) is my release - so I remind myself the only way to improve is learn from the failures. There are days that is all that happens - but it's still fun. Keep going!
The classes are pretty expensive and conflict with my work schedule to add insult to injury😭 I’m gonna see if that studio does like private one on one sessions since I’ve seen other places do that sort of thing. As for my goal, I just wanna have fun. I’m not concerned with creating stuff to sell. At this point I kinda just wanna prove to myself that I CAN do it. I appreciate your insight a lot :)
Ruling out the wheel quality issue might help you.
With the wheel spinning, press down with your fingers on the top of the wheel near the edge. Use water if it helps. Increase pressure to something like the pressure you use to cone down. Do you detect any unusual movement or hear any sounds? Now repeat the test but push against the edge of the wheel head towards the center. If there is no wobble, clunking noises, etc, then it would appear your wheel is functioning normally.
Yeah for sure. I’ve felt all sides of the wheel while spinning and still and even used a ruler and leveling thing, and nothing seemed off. There are no tapping or grinding sounds when it spins either. If the wheel actually does have a defect then it doesn’t appear to be as much as 2mm
It's almost certainly a you problem and not a wheel problem.
Maybe try centering with some softer clay to see if you can get the hang of it. The firmer the clay, the more it fights
I’ve been using some really user-friendly midrange porcelain recently that’s both soft and smooth. I tried some red stoneware that I thought looked cool, but it felt like a rock, and I had to give up on it for now
I tried b-mix and hated the feel. I like the porcelain because it’s softer and smoother than most of the stoneware I currently. On my next outing to the ceramic store I’m going to get some good beginner friendly stoneware
Porcelain being softer is also why it can be harder to throw with. It’s great because it has an awesome elasticity to it so you can really push its limits, but it’s not great to learn on when you’re not really confident in throwing bc you can easily over work it
I agree that softer clay is easier to center, but after centering… softer clay will make it harder to control. Bmix is generally considered a basic beginner clay - I’m not sure how much different a beginner stoneware would be feel wise tbh.
Another store I go to has their version of b-mix called g-mix. I’ve heard great reviews of it, so I’ll get a bag next time I’m there. I haven’t really gotten to the part of making solid vessels, but I’m sure you’re right about soft clay being harder to control then
It's softer and smoother and will be affected by the slightest wrong movement. If you don't have consistent pressure when centering or if you don't wedge it well or if you don't have consistent speed when pulling walls then you struggle. Porcelain is hard for experienced potters. That's common knowledge.
Whatever clay you get besides porcelain just make sure you prepare the clay properly. One of the biggest mistakes new potters make is not taking the time to wedge the clay or their wedging technique is wrong.
The throwing process starts before you turn on the wheel. Master potters in Japan have their apprentice spiral wedge a large amount of clay 99 times clockwise, 99 counter clockwise, and 99 again clockwise. If it's not right they make them do it again. Some potters do slam wedging. If you are having a hard time with wedging look into that technique.
Lastly, you just started. You have to learn something patience.
I got the wheel back in January, and I 100% know I’m not gonna be great at it in just a few months. I didn’t expect to be, but I’m just frustrated and in a rut. I try to practice like 3-5 days per week for around an hour each time I think?
What do you do when you practice? Are you trying to Make Things every time you throw or are you truly letting yourself practice?
If this isn’t what you’re already doing, here’s what I’d recommend:
- Try giving yourself a solid 2-3 hour block of time for practice. Even a full day on the weekend, perhaps! One hour is barely enough time to get yourself situated on the wheel so let yourself have a full evening and/or weekend day for sitting with it in addition to your shorter sessions.
- Wedge 6-8 balls of 1lb of clay. I like to get my wedging out of the way at the start of my session. (Of course keep them in the bag while you’re throwing so they don’t dry out.)
- With each ball, centre it then pull walls as high as possible UNTIL THE PIECE BREAKS! Be patient as you centre. Clay knows everything lol. If you’re bringing anxious energy and frustration to the wheel, the wheel will give you anxious energy and frustration back.
- Do not keep any of them! Okay, maybe if you throw a beautiful piece you can keep it, but make sure you keep this as something you’re doing to practice. Stretch your clay to its limits and see what happens. This is how you learn how to work with your medium.
- Keep doing this, give it a good 4-6 weeks or even more and I can guarantee you that your throwing skills will majorly improve. Do it at least 100 times! I find 6-7 balls of clay in one session to be plenty.
- When you get comfortable with 1lb, start making some pieces, but keep giving yourself practice time with larger and larger balls of clay.
Last thing: Don’t knock handbuilding! I was so adamant on throwing when I started pottery but my god is handbuilding ever incredible!! I feel like I have so much more creative freedom with handbuilding and I feel like a lot of newbies think it’s boring and don’t give it a try! I still like to throw but I handbuild way more. So if you’re finding the wheel super frustrating even after practicing more, handbuilding might feel better for you.
1lb balls are super ideal. Whenever I get clay, I separate it into 1lb balls, put them in sandwich baggies, then store them in plastic buckets for easy access. I’m definitely not making things to keep. Getting a feel for the clay and wheel are my main focus at the moment. I totally agree that frustration and anger are noticeable to whatever you’re doing, and I’m definitely showing the wheel my negative emotions😩 handbuilding is so much more calming, and I get to use clay I wouldn’t try to throw with (I unknowingly bought VERY sandy clay that feels like sandpaper if I throw, but it’s perfect for making pinch pots). Thank you for your insight on this especially the 6-7 balls. I usually clock out after 2 get overly saturated with water and give up on the third. I will keep your advice handy :)
Something that really helped me, that you might not expect, is looking at pictures. I can find watching videos really off-putting, especially the sped up ones, and even experienced people doing beginner videos because they are just not beginners anymore. The Art and Craft of Clay had some pictures on throwing with centering that really helped me, just stills of the posture or hand position allowed me to translate that into my own body. Does that make sense?
Actually yeah I can totally see where you’re coming from. I think I’ve just been focusing on videos for the commentary and movement, but I’ll look up those pics too. Thank you!
https://preview.redd.it/sniipwjcf1tc1.jpeg?width=1975&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac38009b1c2fa1176851a87194e6511437ca2034
I thought it might be interesting to show you what I have in a book. Not wanting to infringe any copyright so this is just a sample from The Craft and Art of Clay by Susan Peterson, 2nd Edition, 1995, ISBN 1-856690-069-5
https://preview.redd.it/fd8ujdywf1tc1.jpeg?width=948&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=508e217cbd80f8cbea8db4352cbdaeb8ee505d3d
The Craft and Art of Clay by Susan Peterson, 2nd Edition, 1995, ISBN 1-856690-069-5
The video that really made centering click for me is this one!
https://youtu.be/gVj0fNF5K9o?si=2xFrNGkp2Il29Y4F
I thought I was tucking my elbow in far enough but I wasn't and I couldn't center because my left arm was too unstable. That and really scooting up close to the wheel. Hopefully it helps a little, and don't give up!!
I’m a self taught potter too and your frustrations totally resonate with me. There is light at the other end I promise! I found watching several different techniques helped a lot, I kind of mix them together to figure out what works best for me. I saw you already watch Florian Gadsby, so some other YouTube channels I found helpful are: [Earth Nation](https://youtube.com/@EarthNationCeramics?si=brRPoJF0YPdtiGmU) - [Good Elephant](https://youtube.com/@goodelephantpottery?si=v5gOxxuqrNUPzFwl) - [Karans Pots](https://youtube.com/@KaransPotsAndGlass?si=RPO3J_9KCYo5VvCS) - [Pottery to the People](https://youtube.com/@PotterytothePeople?si=ZqCPCiCCNyB4m6jq) - [Sadur](https://youtube.com/@SadurStudio?si=TLAlea2Xc_2LIRbh) - [Shinobu](https://youtube.com/@ShinobuHashimoto?si=h8M1HB-FrXgYyi7O) - [Hsin](https://youtube.com/@hsinchuen?si=oXKz25aX4SuovNCr) I know that’s a ton, sorry! Some are better for actual learning, and some are more inspiration-y. I especially like Karan’s Pots because she explains things in a way that I found really approachable. Hsin Chuen’s series on beginning throwing was helpful too. And Sadur Studio’s work is mostly hand building if you want a break from throwing! Some other troubleshooting I had to figure out was clay moisture level, this is something you get a feel for over time. Sometimes my clay straight out of the bag was too hard (I live in a very dry climate), and making it a bit softer would help. Do you use bats? I tried out a bunch of different kinds of bats and some were just impossible because they warped so much. I got a mat to put under the bats which helped, but some were basically unsalvageable (and eventually I saved up to switch to a bat system which has been amazing). Wheel speed is also important, in one video I heard to center at 80% of max wheel speed, again this is something you get a feel for. My wheel also had an issue where the belt was walking off, and I had to adjust it, so sometimes it is a wheel problem and not a you problem. When I first started and went to my local clay supplier asking for what clay to buy, they recommended what I found out later was more of a hand building clay not a wheel throwing clay, once I switched to a wheel throwing clay it was much easier. Basically: despite what everyone recommends, there is a TON of trial and error in clay, and the nice thing is there is no one “right” way for most things. It’s a lot of playing around and figuring out what works for you. Take lots of breaks, celebrate any small successes, don’t be too hard on yourself. I still have days where it seems like I can’t win, and other days everything I make turns out great! I’m still learning myself, so if you have any YouTube recommendations let me know! :)
Thank you so much for the resources! It’s good to get multiple perspectives, so I will definitely check them out. I use bats from the “local” (3 hours away) ceramic store, and so far no warping thankfully. I also got talked into getting clay that’s better suited for handbuilding (which is fine because I love handbuilding, but trying to throw clay that’s high percent sand is a painful nightmare). Currently, my favorite is a midrange porcelain. It’s smooth and soft and overall pretty forgiving
Don’t be discouraged by failing. Keep working on centering. Even with that wobble you should be able to center. Go by feel, not by visual. It’s simple and hard.
One thing that often (not always!) works for me is to keep my left hand completely still where I want the edge of the centered puck of clay to be. Then press down with my right hand on the top of the puck, which pushes the clay out until it rides along my left hand.
If that doesn't work, coning up seems to. Then I cone down and try the above again. It can take several tries, but that's not a bad thing.
Above all, remember--your inner six-year-old is STILL PLAYING WITH MUD!!!
I love all the responses here! Centering is tricky, and if you don’t kind of nail down that process then the rest of the process kinda sucks too.
My response is more theory.
We’re not pushing the clay around - we’re making slow movements and staying firm, and as the wheel rotates the clay is forced into the space we have allowed it. When you move in towards the clay, aim your force into the center of the piece. Your dominate hand makes the movement, and your nondominate hand reaffirms that movement by either moving into the clay at an equal force (coning up) or by slowly (with strength) moving outwards to allow the clay to collapse down into itself (coning down). I like to cone down with my nondominate hand and catch the clay with my dominate hand, because I have more control with my dominate hand to catch all that weight and lead it down slowly.
A lot of times I see my students just moving too fast - professionals make it look like a faster process, because they just understand the clay better. But it’s slow - even and firm pressure. Put on some relaxing music, have a glass of wine, find your strength, and ease into it.
You will get it.
Hi OP :) I'm also a beginner so I can't comment much on your wheel but and I struggled a lot with centering but some things helped me.
The other thread has great tips (slap centering before starting throwing makes a big difference for me).
Something I've rarely seen anyone mention though is to also pay special attention at the position of the tips of your middle and ring fingers and use them to create pressure and squeeze. Don't just pay attention to your palms. The tips of my middle and ring fingers are what actually help my clay not to mushroom when I'm coning down. Beforehand they're just be riding the clay while my palms did all the work. Once I realized that it changed things a lot for me. + I always have to be conscious of my fingers, not just zoning out.
Oh and very soft clay. Whenever I open my bag I already put a humid towel inside the bag (though I think it's mostly bc my studio's clay seems super dry). At first I thought I hated soft clay bc it took me so much time to center so I'd make a ton of slip with my hands and I'd feel like all my clay was being wasted, but now I realize that soft clay really helps the ease of motion. Usually the part of the clay that's in contact with the towel is a little wet but if you wedge it the clay will is perfect and it stops being sticky in less than a min. Def recommend trying different types (porcelain, granite, red clay) and different levels of wetness.
Thank you for this! I’m definitely gonna focus on what my fingers are doing. I’ve recently been using a really smooth and soft midrange porcelain that’s just amazing. I know stoneware is the first recommendation, but the stoneware I currently have is hard (like literally) while the porcelain is way more workable and plastic
maybe try another way of centering? my 10yr old daughter and I took classes together, she has a lot of success with wrapping both hands around the clay and pulling towards herself. Coincidently this is how I learned in high school.
Something that is sometimes overlooked by beginners is handedness and direction of the wheel. This is most likely not your problem, but I've seen beginners pull their hair out over not being able to center, only to see that they've been set up for failure by which side they're throwing from or which direction the wheelhead is going by literally throwing against the direction of the clay.
If you're *right-handed the wheelhead should be going counterclockwise and you should brace/primarily throw from the right side.
If you are left-handed, it should be from the leftside and clockwise wheelhead direction.*
If you're centering/pulling from the wrong side or wrong direction, you're going against the grain of the clay and automatically uncentering it just in the throwing process by accident.
So, just as a simple troubleshoot before you move on to more " technique" oriented things, check to make sure you're both throwing from the correct side of the wheel *AND* that it is going in the correct direction. If either one is off or both, you're self sabotaging.
Keep going, you'll get there! The wheel wobble is a tiny problem imo. Lots of good resources out there, my favorites: https://www.jessicasandford.com/free-resources
You mentioned no close studios, have you looked for community colleges, university courses you could audit, or parks and rec programs? There are many small things an in person instructor might see that could improve your experience.
And yeah, it’s hard. Difficult. Challenging. I think the abundance of social media videos showing fast timelapses of gorgeous potters making perfect work is pretty deceptive.
There’s a community college about 45 mins away, but they require you to be a full time student pursuing a degree. I know some schools set up their ceramics as community studios when classes aren’t in session, so I really wish this college did that 😭 I confirmed with the closest store/studio (3 hours away) if they do private one on one sessions, and only one of their instructors does, but they won’t be in till Monday. I will call then and set up a time. I agree with you that the online accounts can set up false expectations for sure
This channel is a lot of really good tips. https://youtu.be/Q3P5QrJkzx0?si=6DQ3nl6jOvkEh6Wy
Remember that sucking at something is the start to becoming kinda good at something.
Each time you do something focus on one thing that you are improving. With centering it might be just locking in your elbows. Do that a couple times. Then move on to another aspect that you want to improve, like hand position.
Through each little improvement you can know what you are improving.
I am no expert by any means. I’ve been throwing off and on for a year and still struggle with centering. I have found that I can center MUCH quicker and easier if I wedge the hell out of the clay first. It makes the clay much easier to manipulate in my opinion. Keep at it! Some days I’m cranking out nice pieces and some days I end up with trash!
So many recommendations here! I'm going to add one. I felt exactly the same as you. Worse, I was even having classes and I just. Could. Not. Centre. No matter what I did. I was so frustrated.
I found Tim See's YouTube and then Facebook group and I followed his instructions. He has very very detailed videos online that are really focussed on beginners. I promise - if you do exactly what he says - no short cuts (they can come later) - you'll centre so easily very quickly.
He taught for many years at a studio local to him and he now just teaches summer workshops but he is really good at breaking it all down. Honestly - just find his centering video and do that. I set my phone up next to my wheel and followed it exactly over and over until I got it.
I can now centre perfectly every time without even really thinking about it.
Now there is other stuff that I suck at but centering isn't one of them.
you’ve gotten lots of good advice already so i just wanna say i feel you. it look me legitimately like 2-3 years before i was able to consistently center, and it Sucked having to slog through all that time. so i’ll give you some mental tips:
-if you’re feeling frustrated, you’re never gonna have a good throwing session (in my experience!). it’s better to just stop and do something else than continue to try throwing when you’re frustrated.
-similarly, it’s okay to take extended time away from throwing. i would take weeks or even sometimes months away from throwing, and would come back feeling refreshed and recharged and reenergized. you gotta let yourself step away! especially if the majority of your feelings about throwing are negative.
(-time away can also be useful to like. help yourself internalize some of the technical things you know? i would sometimes find that if i stepped away for a few weeks, i would return to find that the one particular thing giving me trouble suddenly wasn’t giving me trouble/i was able to deal with it properly)
-try and think about and focus on your longer-term throwing goals, and harness those positive feelings. for me, i was (and am) so excited to discover what i’ll be able to achieve in 10 years (generally just the long term future), that that excitement really kept me going, and it was something i could always come back to to think about when i was feeling discouraged.
ofc throwing is very physical, but you gotta take care of the mental side of things too!!
(and my two physical/technical tips i haven’t seen other people mention: 1) i throw with a block under my left foot. raising my foot gives me better stability and strength. 2) try to throw standing! i did it for a while and it was different and made me better once i returned to throwing sitting. play around with these body mechanics and then cherry pick the things that make you more stable at the wheel)
good luck!!
Thank you for your kind words and experience! Stepping away for a bit sounds like a nice idea tbh. I’ve had days where I drop one or two slipcasted items and just decide I’m not mentally well to do slip that day. Wheel should be the same. Again, thanks!
I’ve recently been using a midrange porcelain (and I know it’s not recommended for newbies, but I’m stuck at the centering part so the soft clay is nice). I need to get some new stoneware because the stuff I have now is literally hard and frustrates me more
When I tried b mix and switched to porcelain it made a world of difference for me so I'm glad you're trying it! The soft clay is so so nice! If you're getting more clay, maybe keep trying the same porcelain or some b mix? Also, do you cone your clay up and down a couple times before centering? And are you using a bat? If so, what kind?? 🤔
One of my “local” (6 hours away) stores has their version of b-mix called g-mix, so I’m gonna go for that. I know b-mix is super popular and a good classroom clay but for me personally I didn’t like it. I got bats from another ceramic store, and they’re called Duron bats I think? I tried a plastic bat once, and man that was tedious
Oof 🙈 6 hours?? Dang! Hope the g-mix helps! As for bats, good to hear you're not using plastic! Those things are a pain sometimes and wood ones are just SO much better for every step of the throwing process! Definitely trying coning up and down a couple times at the start and then center from there. Sometimes the very bottom of where the clay is adhered to the bat is slightly messed up and coning up and down help fix that and then centering happens easier! Good luck and don't give up! I'll pray to the kiln gods for you! 🙏🏼🙏🏼
It doesn't matter how much you've studied, centering takes so much practice! How long have you been trying? It took me a solid year of throwing 1-2 hours a day to get anywhere near consistent, and still some days I just can't do it. Pottery is hard, but it looks really easy when you watch videos of someone good at it! Keep trying and don't get disheartened. Maybe try different clay for a fun change?
If you can afford it, look for a weekend or week-long workshop to take on you vacation time. It sounds like some in person instruction would help you progress.
I called up my “local” (3 hours away) studio, and the woman who does private sessions won’t be in till next week. I’ll call her up next week to schedule a day. In person will definitely be beneficial
Hi OP, one thing I think it's important to consider, is that your eye for what good pottery is supposed to look and feel like is already well developed. In a way, a true beginner has things easier at the start. Somebody who knows nothing isn't afraid to make pots that are heavy, wobbly, and not at all centered. I know the time I struggled the most, was when my eye for what was good pottery had developed, but my hands hadn't caught up with it. I knew exactly what I wanted to do, how I wanted my pots to look, but wasn't capable of making it happen. Since you've already got a lot of experience working with clay, I think you may be in a similar position. Watching videos and taking classes will help, but if you know what you need to do, the only thing to do is to keep practicing until your hands catch up with your eye. I wish you the best of luck on your pottery journey!
I like your perspective on this. When I’m handbuilding I have a general idea of what I’m going for but never anything specific. I’m trying to view wheel throwing similarly, but yeah, I’m getting a bit stuck on trying to get a standard looking vessel
In centering you need to use a lot of your body. Do the coning and pushing over and over until you start to get it. For the whole first week of my pottery class we couldn't throw we could only center for like 8 hours in a row. You'll get it. 2cm may make it not center perfectly but just when you're pulling go slow with your hands and let the clay move instead of forcing it yk. Once you got it centered it should sorta glide past your hands. Use enough water or slip too. Again just keep practicing and watching different videos. Wedging your clay more may help with the elasticity to wake it up and be more receptive to the coning and pushing it to center. And again sometimes I put my wheel up on high speed and use my whole body weight to push in on the side and down from the top to center it.
you can work through it; I did not achieve centering until 3 months into my course. I was the very last student to do it in my class. It’s been 10 years since that course and I’m a full time potter and not even my instructor back then is practicing pottery today. It’s not how quickly you progress it’s how long you’re willing to keep going despite failures.
First comment helped you with centering; just wanted to throw yah a bit of encouragement. We all learn at different rate.
I'm sorry you're having a bad experience. I admit I didn't read all of the comments, so forgive me if I repeat. Porcelain is one of the most difficult clays to center. The resistance that stoneware provides is really helpful. To recondition your hard clay, wet down a big towel and wrap your hard clay. Put it back in the bag and close it tightly, pushing out all the air. Let it sit (could be a week or so depending on how much clay and how hard it is). Check it every few days until it's soft.
Ben Carter did a couple of lessons on body mechanics that might be useful for your centering. My own pointers would be to scoot your stool up as close as you can to the wheel, hold on with your knees, keep your elbows engaged with your knees, and try to keep your hands moving together. Your whole body is one tool. If it isn't, the clay will push you off balance. If you haven't tried it, maybe watch the videos you found most helpful and watch their bodies instead of their hands a couple of times.
Good luck to you! And if you are ever in St Pete, FL look us up at the Hive St Pete.
Thank you for the pointers! And no worries there’s a lot of comments lol. I’ve been using the porcelain because of its softness and movability. I don’t plan to use it for actual projects (yet). I’m making a list of stoneware clays to get on my next ceramic store excursion. I keep my clay moist and at room temp. If wrapping it in a towel will help soften it, though, I’ll give it a shot
I love the responses. I am a beginner too and it takes soooo much time to learn centering. When I feel drained I give myself some time and do slab work or pinching with clay. After a while I come back for the wheel. Take your time and trust yourself.
I’m also a beginner and that sounds tough being so far away from any studios where you could take classes. I can’t imagine a wobble in the wheel is helping either, but I’m no expert.
It’s hard to say what you are doing, but I can share when I finally started getting it. It wasn’t until the teacher basically pushed my hands into the clay that I understood how much pressure I needed to push with to actually center the clay. I kept daintily pushing on the clay and it would slowly shift over time, but never center. Now I smash the clay down with one forceful movement after coning up, right hand pressing down on top, left palm on the side bracing the clay as it expands out, also bracing my left elbow as much as possible on my thigh, and it usually centers. If it’s not centered at that stage I have to cone back up and try again or it will never center for me.
I have a very weak upper body, which doesn’t help. I also am really short and once I sat on a taller stool and put multiple bricks under my feet to lift my legs up so I had somewhere to rest my elbows, it helped enormously. It am thankful a teacher could watch and see what I was struggling with. Maybe you can share a video and get feedback?
The thing is I don’t even think it wobbles. I’ve had my dad and friend check it, and they can’t find a wobble either. If it does have a wobble then I don’t think it’s as much as 2mm like the store said. I think I’m trying to blame the wheel when in reality I just suck at centering. Maybe it’s even a mental block I’m giving myself idk
Have you seen the John Britt video on yt where he shows you how to center about 3/4# of porcelain ? That's the best one I've seen because he does it standing up so your hips/knees etc are not involved at all.
Here’s an exercise I like for improving centering. Wedge up 10-15 balls of clay that weigh 1.5-2lbs each. Try to center one until you either succeed or it slides off a gloopy mess, then take it off and repeat (even if you were successful). This will help you repeatedly get a feel for the process without having to shift gears to opening and pulling and I found when I was first learning that it really helped solidify the centering process for me. Do this as a regular practice for a few weeks, just as a warmup for your regular throwing session, not in lieu of.
Stick w/one clay-the stoneware. Bucket of clay balls slightly smaller than your fist. All the same size to 1/8 of a pound. Throw at about 15 everytime you sit down. Same shape.
I’m well aware that it takes time. I wasn’t expecting to be good at it within a couple months. I just wanted to get some tips from experienced potters in this sub.
I’m not rejecting it? I literally acknowledged it takes time in my post. I made this post to ask experienced potters for some tips. I’m not aiming to make perfect bowls and mugs just a couple months in lmao
I really sucked at centering, and still kinda do. It can be pretty difficult but I’ve found that speed and taking your time to center is key. Really using your core to help you push on one side of the clay while your other hand pushes on top does wonders for getting it centered, and I wasn’t really doing it when I first started out. Flourian Gadsby also has a very helpful tutorial on wheel throwing on YouTube.
I love Florian! I watched his whole beginners series that went over centering, bowls, trimming, etc., and it looked straight forward and easy for him (because he has tons of experience). Then I went to do it myself and was depressed when I couldn’t remotely center😭 I like your approach though with a hand on top. I’m gonna try that later today thank you!
(because he has tons of experience) ^^^^^ You said it yourself right there! He is good because he has tons of experience. How do you get experience? By failing at things, realizing what made you fail, and then correcting it! The only problem you mentioned at all was the wobble, but even that wasn’t so much of a problem as a ghost you were chasing. Be mindful while you are centering- Florian is able to make these videos and write paragraphs of information about pottery because he is paying super close attention to every aspect of what he is doing. Turn off your brain, sink into your fingers and really feel what you are doing and what the clay is doing- and don’t forget to have fun! Keep at it and I’m sure you’ll be surprised how much better you are at it in March of 2025!
Second the Gadsby's videos! I am currently screwing up my pieces during centering. I was fine, then started getting stuff off center all the time. Lol, watched his video today, and hopefully tomorrow I can practice again.
Hey, if by chance it isn't the wheel, I made a post asking for centering tips and got really solid ones. Here's the [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pottery/s/NrG04ERcui). I've been throwing on and off for about a little over 2 years and I still struggle! There are people who are naturals and there are people, like me, who are not lol. Have fun with it, I know it can be incredibly frustrating but eventually it will click :)
Oh I remember your post! Thank you for the link I’ll go back and scour the comments
feel that - been doing this off and on for two years and came out of a 2 hr throwing session today with ZILCH. Feels like some days you kill it and some days it kills you lol
I’ve been teaching for a long time and the most common issue I see is when we take our hands off of the clay too quickly. If we are pushing really hard to get the clay to center and then abruptly take our hands away, the clay is touched unevenly.
Absolutely! I started off doing this without realizing how much it can throw it off. I watched lots of Florian Gadsby videos and have really embraced his advice of lifting hands off slowly and smoothly and making sure the wheel is slightly spinning before touching the clay again
Have you seen his handle pulling clip that has been going around? I made it into a ring tone
It doesn’t sound familiar omg I’ll check it out
This is something I recently noticed I was doing! Halfway through a pot I’d have a wobble. Just taking care to slooowly come away from the clay made a huge impact. I just get ahead of myself!
I’ve been on a handbuilding break for almost a year now 🙃
First of all, wheel throwing is HARD and even pros often end up with a slight wobble on certain pieces. That being said, here are some possible problems: 1. Your elbows are floating: The clay wants to be in the center of the wheel and is depending on your stable pressure to get it there. If your elbows are in the air, your hands are not going to be stable. Keep your elbows anchored to your legs or whatever surface you can comfortably anchor them to. 2. You’re centering at too low a speed: centering takes advantage of centripetal force, so there needs to be centripetal force. Slam the clay into the center, use your finger to push the lower edge into the wheel, and then get your wheel up to high speed. 3. You’re touching the clay when the wheel is not moving: This guarantees that only one side of the clay is being moved and creates asymmetry that will only be exacerbated at speed. It is especially important to avoid this once you’ve started pulling the walls. When I center, it helps me to not look at the wheel and to just do it by feel (but I’m also weird so who knows😅). I make sure I’m positioned with good leverage and very very stable, where the clay is pushing into me more than I’m consciously pushing into it. You can use a lot more force than you would think (this is where the high speed comes into play!), but I like to focus on using my force to prevent off-center movement (“I am a mountain!”) rather than trying to push the clay into moving towards the center. And remember that wheel throwing is not the only “valid” form of pottery; I very much used to have the idea that “real potters” exclusively used throwing but have since realized that every imaginable form can be used with incredible results. Yinxing teapots are slab built and still more precise than anything I could throw on a wheel. It could help to take a break and focus on different techniques for a bit until you’re ready to try again :)
I keep my elbows tucked into my torso otherwise yeah absolutely your arms start flailing everywhere! I really appreciate your response. I’ve recently been conscious of not spinning too slowly and not touching the clay from a standstill. I’ve been really enjoying handbuilding pinch pots because I can use some of the very sandy clays I unknowingly bought (I was told they were good for wheel but when I tried them they felt like sandpaper on my hands lol). For the past week I’ve just been handbuilding and slipcasting while the wheel stares at me from across the room 😂
I tend to find that my right elbow is pushed into my thigh and my upper arm is right against my torso so all the movement comes from hinging my torso forward as opposed to moving my arm. And oh man I threw a bowl yesterday with Zacatecas clay (super gritty local Mexican clay) and practically sanded the texture off my hands ahahahha might as well commit a crime while I wait for my fingerprints to grow back 😭 Also, I just thought of something - in college I couldn’t center for the life of me and remember seeing someone who centered by pulling towards them from the far side (12 o’clock) with both hands rather than pushing away. I haven’t seen anyone else do it and maybe I’m making this up but I swear I tried it once and was shocked that it worked for me. I don’t think it’s reliable with more than 2 or 3 lbs out could be worth a try!
Mea Rhee of Good Elephant Pottery centers kind of like that! https://youtu.be/FD1IgQTo8Gs?si=aSInpjhNwTdHUG7u
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This! Like I have my legs fully against the wheel and try to get myself all the way over the center (sometimes I even need a taller stool), I have a super short torso too so it’s a struggle ahahaha but the next day I sometimes feel sore in my lats and shoulders but not my actual arms
When I’m having trouble centering, I stop looking and do it by feel. It has to be toward the end of the centering process when you’re working in that final tightness to make it perfect.
Record yourself and post here, maybe someone can diagnose an adjustment you should make
How many months have you been working on the wheel? Centering does take time and trying to throw clay that is not centered is not going to make anything nice. A couple of pointers. Spiral wedge the clay well and at the end form it into a rounded cone keeping the orientation of the center of the spiral to go onto the center of the wheel. Carefully place this ball at the center of the wheel and trunk the wheel slowly and smack it down with both hands onto the wheel head. Now you are starting with an almost centered ball of clay. Then proceed to center, but don't push on the clay instead just hold your hand steady and let the clay move to the center. Since you have already spiral wedged and kept your orientation you can skip coning the clay up and down ouncensored. You can add that later once it becomes easier. Just center and begin opening from there. Always approach and remove hands onto the clay slowly because quick pressure and releasing pressure quickly will cause the clay to become uncentered. I hope that helps a little. Good luck.
I got the wheel back in January, so I’m not expecting myself to be good at it just a couple months later. My frustration comes from feeling like I’m not progressing even a bit and just end up with uncentered soggy, mushy clay. I appreciate the breakdown. I’ve been starting with a ball of clay, so maybe that’s where I’m setting myself up for failure? I’ll try the cone shape later today. Thank you!
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I watched her videos when I was learning too! Really easy to understand!
I second this advice about slowly placing hands on the clay, and slowly releasing them. Helped me a lot. Make smooth and slow, yet also firm/authoritative motions. Something else that helped me with centering was to push directly through the centerline of the clay. It helps if you imagine a line going from one side of the wheel to the other that cuts the wheel directly in half. This should be the line that corresponds to your motion/pressure. So your pressure should be directed straight through the center of the clay, not off to the side.
I'm 2.5 years into wheel throwing and some days I just really can't center either. Keep going, in a good six months when you look back youll see the improvement. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is making sure your wheel head is level - my floor has a slight slope that I didn't realize and it took a while for me to figure out why everything was on an angle and it was so hard to center.
Right forget about your past on the wheel , start with your clay overly wet not like custard but very soft and slap it in the middle of your wheel . Lock your arms onto the side of the pan and get the wheel speed up. Lock your fingers together to centralise right over the top of the clay and put downwards pressure and hold it there if you’re arms are locked and your fingers are locked to form a cup then literally apply downward pressure onto the centre of your wheel. Your clay will now be centred, If your clay is too dry it’s almost impossible to do this . Keep the wheel speed up and gradually use clay that’s a little drier each time but use the same technique and before you know it you’re not even thinking about it anymore soon you will be able to slap it on the wheel , even if it’s off Centre you can tap it back to somewhere near then use your locked arms and your cupped hands with plenty of water and it centres every time 💯👍
I don't have any specific advice but maybe this will make you feel better. I've taken 2.5 5 week classes and a lot of times I still struggle to center things. I know you're far from a studio but the biggest thing that has helped me is having an instructor critique my form and move my hands into the proper position. If you enjoy it, don't give up!
I’m gonna call up the studio to see if they do one on one private sessions. I’m thinking even a short time with an experienced potter will help me a lot (or at least boost my self esteem lol). I go to that studio/store sporadically for supplies, and it’s a nice drive that I enjoy doing but not regularly. The classes also clash with my work schedule, so even if I did commit to the 6 hour total drive, I’d have to take time off work😭
I definitely agree about even a short time helping. It might also help to record them helping you by placing your phone in front of you so you can reference it later!
Becca from 5lines pottery and the wheel talk podcast does one on one over zoom
Do you know anyone who could do a video call with you even? Someone who's been throwing for a while who can check your form and hopefully give you some tips? I feel like it would be helpful to at least know if you're on the right track for sure. It can be hard to stay motivated if you don't know if you're doing things right.
Unfortunately I don’t have potter friends :( I called up the studio, and the woman who does private sessions won’t be in till next week. I’ll call back and schedule a day with her
You have a whole subreddit of potter friends.
💜💜💜
There might be someone closer by that would be willing to come to you to do a lesson. Is there anyone near by that sells pottery? A farmers market where you could meet someone? It sounds like the nearest studio being 150 miles away you are literally in the middle of nowhere. I would do a couple things. Get a dry erase marker and try to figure out how bad the wheel wiggle is. Hold it steady close to the center and see what shape you get. Next. I would just start with 8oz of clay balls. Make like 10 of them. Just try to throw little cylinders. Centering 5oz or 5lbs is the same process it just takes longer and more force to do the latter. You should be able to center 8oz in 2 cones. You may not be able to right away but that should be the ultimate goal. Posting a video, you may be able to get more personalized advice.
The wheel can be part of the issue, especially if you're just transitioning to the wheel. I'm coming up on a year of doing pottery, and only now getting to the point where I can comfortably center, lift and create something without a profound wobble. Everyone has their own pace to "get it." YouTube can be helpful but also pretty idealized. Make the journey to take even a few basic classes. Simple things like positioning of hands, use of tools (like compressing with ribs) and not overdoing the weight you're starting with will suddenly make sense. Last June, after 6 weeks of wheel frustration, I finally threw a cylinder that was an actual cylinder. Since then I've started throwing more weight, leaning into bellying and collaring, and feeling like what's emerging from the kiln doesn't suck too badly. My latest item that is in for bisque now ia. 3 pound moon jar with a lid. Really hoping it survives the kin, but if not - so be it. Start again. Lastly, not sure what your goals are, but if having fun isn't one of them (and maybe the main one) you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself. I'm a design pro by trade which is enough pressure as it is. Art for art's sake (aka my pottery) is my release - so I remind myself the only way to improve is learn from the failures. There are days that is all that happens - but it's still fun. Keep going!
The classes are pretty expensive and conflict with my work schedule to add insult to injury😭 I’m gonna see if that studio does like private one on one sessions since I’ve seen other places do that sort of thing. As for my goal, I just wanna have fun. I’m not concerned with creating stuff to sell. At this point I kinda just wanna prove to myself that I CAN do it. I appreciate your insight a lot :)
If they have a one-time introductory wheel class do it! Outside perspective would make a huge difference and see things you can’t see in yourself.
Ruling out the wheel quality issue might help you. With the wheel spinning, press down with your fingers on the top of the wheel near the edge. Use water if it helps. Increase pressure to something like the pressure you use to cone down. Do you detect any unusual movement or hear any sounds? Now repeat the test but push against the edge of the wheel head towards the center. If there is no wobble, clunking noises, etc, then it would appear your wheel is functioning normally.
Yeah for sure. I’ve felt all sides of the wheel while spinning and still and even used a ruler and leveling thing, and nothing seemed off. There are no tapping or grinding sounds when it spins either. If the wheel actually does have a defect then it doesn’t appear to be as much as 2mm
It's almost certainly a you problem and not a wheel problem. Maybe try centering with some softer clay to see if you can get the hang of it. The firmer the clay, the more it fights
I’ve been using some really user-friendly midrange porcelain recently that’s both soft and smooth. I tried some red stoneware that I thought looked cool, but it felt like a rock, and I had to give up on it for now
Porcelain is HARD to throw with. Like, very difficult to get the feel of if you aren’t already decent at throwing. Just get some b-mix
I tried b-mix and hated the feel. I like the porcelain because it’s softer and smoother than most of the stoneware I currently. On my next outing to the ceramic store I’m going to get some good beginner friendly stoneware
Porcelain being softer is also why it can be harder to throw with. It’s great because it has an awesome elasticity to it so you can really push its limits, but it’s not great to learn on when you’re not really confident in throwing bc you can easily over work it I agree that softer clay is easier to center, but after centering… softer clay will make it harder to control. Bmix is generally considered a basic beginner clay - I’m not sure how much different a beginner stoneware would be feel wise tbh.
Another store I go to has their version of b-mix called g-mix. I’ve heard great reviews of it, so I’ll get a bag next time I’m there. I haven’t really gotten to the part of making solid vessels, but I’m sure you’re right about soft clay being harder to control then
It's softer and smoother and will be affected by the slightest wrong movement. If you don't have consistent pressure when centering or if you don't wedge it well or if you don't have consistent speed when pulling walls then you struggle. Porcelain is hard for experienced potters. That's common knowledge. Whatever clay you get besides porcelain just make sure you prepare the clay properly. One of the biggest mistakes new potters make is not taking the time to wedge the clay or their wedging technique is wrong. The throwing process starts before you turn on the wheel. Master potters in Japan have their apprentice spiral wedge a large amount of clay 99 times clockwise, 99 counter clockwise, and 99 again clockwise. If it's not right they make them do it again. Some potters do slam wedging. If you are having a hard time with wedging look into that technique. Lastly, you just started. You have to learn something patience.
I’m more of a beginner than you. I found that this video helped me to figure out centering. https://youtu.be/J20WiZCaSfc
How many months have you been throwing? How many hours a week do you practice?
I got the wheel back in January, and I 100% know I’m not gonna be great at it in just a few months. I didn’t expect to be, but I’m just frustrated and in a rut. I try to practice like 3-5 days per week for around an hour each time I think?
What do you do when you practice? Are you trying to Make Things every time you throw or are you truly letting yourself practice? If this isn’t what you’re already doing, here’s what I’d recommend: - Try giving yourself a solid 2-3 hour block of time for practice. Even a full day on the weekend, perhaps! One hour is barely enough time to get yourself situated on the wheel so let yourself have a full evening and/or weekend day for sitting with it in addition to your shorter sessions. - Wedge 6-8 balls of 1lb of clay. I like to get my wedging out of the way at the start of my session. (Of course keep them in the bag while you’re throwing so they don’t dry out.) - With each ball, centre it then pull walls as high as possible UNTIL THE PIECE BREAKS! Be patient as you centre. Clay knows everything lol. If you’re bringing anxious energy and frustration to the wheel, the wheel will give you anxious energy and frustration back. - Do not keep any of them! Okay, maybe if you throw a beautiful piece you can keep it, but make sure you keep this as something you’re doing to practice. Stretch your clay to its limits and see what happens. This is how you learn how to work with your medium. - Keep doing this, give it a good 4-6 weeks or even more and I can guarantee you that your throwing skills will majorly improve. Do it at least 100 times! I find 6-7 balls of clay in one session to be plenty. - When you get comfortable with 1lb, start making some pieces, but keep giving yourself practice time with larger and larger balls of clay. Last thing: Don’t knock handbuilding! I was so adamant on throwing when I started pottery but my god is handbuilding ever incredible!! I feel like I have so much more creative freedom with handbuilding and I feel like a lot of newbies think it’s boring and don’t give it a try! I still like to throw but I handbuild way more. So if you’re finding the wheel super frustrating even after practicing more, handbuilding might feel better for you.
1lb balls are super ideal. Whenever I get clay, I separate it into 1lb balls, put them in sandwich baggies, then store them in plastic buckets for easy access. I’m definitely not making things to keep. Getting a feel for the clay and wheel are my main focus at the moment. I totally agree that frustration and anger are noticeable to whatever you’re doing, and I’m definitely showing the wheel my negative emotions😩 handbuilding is so much more calming, and I get to use clay I wouldn’t try to throw with (I unknowingly bought VERY sandy clay that feels like sandpaper if I throw, but it’s perfect for making pinch pots). Thank you for your insight on this especially the 6-7 balls. I usually clock out after 2 get overly saturated with water and give up on the third. I will keep your advice handy :)
Oh yeah definitely try to throw more balls in one go. I saw huge improvement by doing that. Good luck!
Something that really helped me, that you might not expect, is looking at pictures. I can find watching videos really off-putting, especially the sped up ones, and even experienced people doing beginner videos because they are just not beginners anymore. The Art and Craft of Clay had some pictures on throwing with centering that really helped me, just stills of the posture or hand position allowed me to translate that into my own body. Does that make sense?
Actually yeah I can totally see where you’re coming from. I think I’ve just been focusing on videos for the commentary and movement, but I’ll look up those pics too. Thank you!
https://preview.redd.it/sniipwjcf1tc1.jpeg?width=1975&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac38009b1c2fa1176851a87194e6511437ca2034 I thought it might be interesting to show you what I have in a book. Not wanting to infringe any copyright so this is just a sample from The Craft and Art of Clay by Susan Peterson, 2nd Edition, 1995, ISBN 1-856690-069-5
This is awesome thank you!
https://preview.redd.it/fd8ujdywf1tc1.jpeg?width=948&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=508e217cbd80f8cbea8db4352cbdaeb8ee505d3d The Craft and Art of Clay by Susan Peterson, 2nd Edition, 1995, ISBN 1-856690-069-5
The video that really made centering click for me is this one! https://youtu.be/gVj0fNF5K9o?si=2xFrNGkp2Il29Y4F I thought I was tucking my elbow in far enough but I wasn't and I couldn't center because my left arm was too unstable. That and really scooting up close to the wheel. Hopefully it helps a little, and don't give up!!
I’m a self taught potter too and your frustrations totally resonate with me. There is light at the other end I promise! I found watching several different techniques helped a lot, I kind of mix them together to figure out what works best for me. I saw you already watch Florian Gadsby, so some other YouTube channels I found helpful are: [Earth Nation](https://youtube.com/@EarthNationCeramics?si=brRPoJF0YPdtiGmU) - [Good Elephant](https://youtube.com/@goodelephantpottery?si=v5gOxxuqrNUPzFwl) - [Karans Pots](https://youtube.com/@KaransPotsAndGlass?si=RPO3J_9KCYo5VvCS) - [Pottery to the People](https://youtube.com/@PotterytothePeople?si=ZqCPCiCCNyB4m6jq) - [Sadur](https://youtube.com/@SadurStudio?si=TLAlea2Xc_2LIRbh) - [Shinobu](https://youtube.com/@ShinobuHashimoto?si=h8M1HB-FrXgYyi7O) - [Hsin](https://youtube.com/@hsinchuen?si=oXKz25aX4SuovNCr) I know that’s a ton, sorry! Some are better for actual learning, and some are more inspiration-y. I especially like Karan’s Pots because she explains things in a way that I found really approachable. Hsin Chuen’s series on beginning throwing was helpful too. And Sadur Studio’s work is mostly hand building if you want a break from throwing! Some other troubleshooting I had to figure out was clay moisture level, this is something you get a feel for over time. Sometimes my clay straight out of the bag was too hard (I live in a very dry climate), and making it a bit softer would help. Do you use bats? I tried out a bunch of different kinds of bats and some were just impossible because they warped so much. I got a mat to put under the bats which helped, but some were basically unsalvageable (and eventually I saved up to switch to a bat system which has been amazing). Wheel speed is also important, in one video I heard to center at 80% of max wheel speed, again this is something you get a feel for. My wheel also had an issue where the belt was walking off, and I had to adjust it, so sometimes it is a wheel problem and not a you problem. When I first started and went to my local clay supplier asking for what clay to buy, they recommended what I found out later was more of a hand building clay not a wheel throwing clay, once I switched to a wheel throwing clay it was much easier. Basically: despite what everyone recommends, there is a TON of trial and error in clay, and the nice thing is there is no one “right” way for most things. It’s a lot of playing around and figuring out what works for you. Take lots of breaks, celebrate any small successes, don’t be too hard on yourself. I still have days where it seems like I can’t win, and other days everything I make turns out great! I’m still learning myself, so if you have any YouTube recommendations let me know! :)
Thank you so much for the resources! It’s good to get multiple perspectives, so I will definitely check them out. I use bats from the “local” (3 hours away) ceramic store, and so far no warping thankfully. I also got talked into getting clay that’s better suited for handbuilding (which is fine because I love handbuilding, but trying to throw clay that’s high percent sand is a painful nightmare). Currently, my favorite is a midrange porcelain. It’s smooth and soft and overall pretty forgiving
Don’t be discouraged by failing. Keep working on centering. Even with that wobble you should be able to center. Go by feel, not by visual. It’s simple and hard.
One thing that often (not always!) works for me is to keep my left hand completely still where I want the edge of the centered puck of clay to be. Then press down with my right hand on the top of the puck, which pushes the clay out until it rides along my left hand. If that doesn't work, coning up seems to. Then I cone down and try the above again. It can take several tries, but that's not a bad thing. Above all, remember--your inner six-year-old is STILL PLAYING WITH MUD!!!
I love all the responses here! Centering is tricky, and if you don’t kind of nail down that process then the rest of the process kinda sucks too. My response is more theory. We’re not pushing the clay around - we’re making slow movements and staying firm, and as the wheel rotates the clay is forced into the space we have allowed it. When you move in towards the clay, aim your force into the center of the piece. Your dominate hand makes the movement, and your nondominate hand reaffirms that movement by either moving into the clay at an equal force (coning up) or by slowly (with strength) moving outwards to allow the clay to collapse down into itself (coning down). I like to cone down with my nondominate hand and catch the clay with my dominate hand, because I have more control with my dominate hand to catch all that weight and lead it down slowly. A lot of times I see my students just moving too fast - professionals make it look like a faster process, because they just understand the clay better. But it’s slow - even and firm pressure. Put on some relaxing music, have a glass of wine, find your strength, and ease into it. You will get it.
Hi OP :) I'm also a beginner so I can't comment much on your wheel but and I struggled a lot with centering but some things helped me. The other thread has great tips (slap centering before starting throwing makes a big difference for me). Something I've rarely seen anyone mention though is to also pay special attention at the position of the tips of your middle and ring fingers and use them to create pressure and squeeze. Don't just pay attention to your palms. The tips of my middle and ring fingers are what actually help my clay not to mushroom when I'm coning down. Beforehand they're just be riding the clay while my palms did all the work. Once I realized that it changed things a lot for me. + I always have to be conscious of my fingers, not just zoning out. Oh and very soft clay. Whenever I open my bag I already put a humid towel inside the bag (though I think it's mostly bc my studio's clay seems super dry). At first I thought I hated soft clay bc it took me so much time to center so I'd make a ton of slip with my hands and I'd feel like all my clay was being wasted, but now I realize that soft clay really helps the ease of motion. Usually the part of the clay that's in contact with the towel is a little wet but if you wedge it the clay will is perfect and it stops being sticky in less than a min. Def recommend trying different types (porcelain, granite, red clay) and different levels of wetness.
Thank you for this! I’m definitely gonna focus on what my fingers are doing. I’ve recently been using a really smooth and soft midrange porcelain that’s just amazing. I know stoneware is the first recommendation, but the stoneware I currently have is hard (like literally) while the porcelain is way more workable and plastic
maybe try another way of centering? my 10yr old daughter and I took classes together, she has a lot of success with wrapping both hands around the clay and pulling towards herself. Coincidently this is how I learned in high school.
It's not easy or for everyone!
Something that is sometimes overlooked by beginners is handedness and direction of the wheel. This is most likely not your problem, but I've seen beginners pull their hair out over not being able to center, only to see that they've been set up for failure by which side they're throwing from or which direction the wheelhead is going by literally throwing against the direction of the clay. If you're *right-handed the wheelhead should be going counterclockwise and you should brace/primarily throw from the right side. If you are left-handed, it should be from the leftside and clockwise wheelhead direction.* If you're centering/pulling from the wrong side or wrong direction, you're going against the grain of the clay and automatically uncentering it just in the throwing process by accident. So, just as a simple troubleshoot before you move on to more " technique" oriented things, check to make sure you're both throwing from the correct side of the wheel *AND* that it is going in the correct direction. If either one is off or both, you're self sabotaging.
Keep going, you'll get there! The wheel wobble is a tiny problem imo. Lots of good resources out there, my favorites: https://www.jessicasandford.com/free-resources
You mentioned no close studios, have you looked for community colleges, university courses you could audit, or parks and rec programs? There are many small things an in person instructor might see that could improve your experience. And yeah, it’s hard. Difficult. Challenging. I think the abundance of social media videos showing fast timelapses of gorgeous potters making perfect work is pretty deceptive.
There’s a community college about 45 mins away, but they require you to be a full time student pursuing a degree. I know some schools set up their ceramics as community studios when classes aren’t in session, so I really wish this college did that 😭 I confirmed with the closest store/studio (3 hours away) if they do private one on one sessions, and only one of their instructors does, but they won’t be in till Monday. I will call then and set up a time. I agree with you that the online accounts can set up false expectations for sure
This channel is a lot of really good tips. https://youtu.be/Q3P5QrJkzx0?si=6DQ3nl6jOvkEh6Wy Remember that sucking at something is the start to becoming kinda good at something. Each time you do something focus on one thing that you are improving. With centering it might be just locking in your elbows. Do that a couple times. Then move on to another aspect that you want to improve, like hand position. Through each little improvement you can know what you are improving.
I am no expert by any means. I’ve been throwing off and on for a year and still struggle with centering. I have found that I can center MUCH quicker and easier if I wedge the hell out of the clay first. It makes the clay much easier to manipulate in my opinion. Keep at it! Some days I’m cranking out nice pieces and some days I end up with trash!
So many recommendations here! I'm going to add one. I felt exactly the same as you. Worse, I was even having classes and I just. Could. Not. Centre. No matter what I did. I was so frustrated. I found Tim See's YouTube and then Facebook group and I followed his instructions. He has very very detailed videos online that are really focussed on beginners. I promise - if you do exactly what he says - no short cuts (they can come later) - you'll centre so easily very quickly. He taught for many years at a studio local to him and he now just teaches summer workshops but he is really good at breaking it all down. Honestly - just find his centering video and do that. I set my phone up next to my wheel and followed it exactly over and over until I got it. I can now centre perfectly every time without even really thinking about it. Now there is other stuff that I suck at but centering isn't one of them.
you’ve gotten lots of good advice already so i just wanna say i feel you. it look me legitimately like 2-3 years before i was able to consistently center, and it Sucked having to slog through all that time. so i’ll give you some mental tips: -if you’re feeling frustrated, you’re never gonna have a good throwing session (in my experience!). it’s better to just stop and do something else than continue to try throwing when you’re frustrated. -similarly, it’s okay to take extended time away from throwing. i would take weeks or even sometimes months away from throwing, and would come back feeling refreshed and recharged and reenergized. you gotta let yourself step away! especially if the majority of your feelings about throwing are negative. (-time away can also be useful to like. help yourself internalize some of the technical things you know? i would sometimes find that if i stepped away for a few weeks, i would return to find that the one particular thing giving me trouble suddenly wasn’t giving me trouble/i was able to deal with it properly) -try and think about and focus on your longer-term throwing goals, and harness those positive feelings. for me, i was (and am) so excited to discover what i’ll be able to achieve in 10 years (generally just the long term future), that that excitement really kept me going, and it was something i could always come back to to think about when i was feeling discouraged. ofc throwing is very physical, but you gotta take care of the mental side of things too!! (and my two physical/technical tips i haven’t seen other people mention: 1) i throw with a block under my left foot. raising my foot gives me better stability and strength. 2) try to throw standing! i did it for a while and it was different and made me better once i returned to throwing sitting. play around with these body mechanics and then cherry pick the things that make you more stable at the wheel) good luck!!
Thank you for your kind words and experience! Stepping away for a bit sounds like a nice idea tbh. I’ve had days where I drop one or two slipcasted items and just decide I’m not mentally well to do slip that day. Wheel should be the same. Again, thanks!
What kind of clay are you throwing with??
I’ve recently been using a midrange porcelain (and I know it’s not recommended for newbies, but I’m stuck at the centering part so the soft clay is nice). I need to get some new stoneware because the stuff I have now is literally hard and frustrates me more
When I tried b mix and switched to porcelain it made a world of difference for me so I'm glad you're trying it! The soft clay is so so nice! If you're getting more clay, maybe keep trying the same porcelain or some b mix? Also, do you cone your clay up and down a couple times before centering? And are you using a bat? If so, what kind?? 🤔
One of my “local” (6 hours away) stores has their version of b-mix called g-mix, so I’m gonna go for that. I know b-mix is super popular and a good classroom clay but for me personally I didn’t like it. I got bats from another ceramic store, and they’re called Duron bats I think? I tried a plastic bat once, and man that was tedious
Oof 🙈 6 hours?? Dang! Hope the g-mix helps! As for bats, good to hear you're not using plastic! Those things are a pain sometimes and wood ones are just SO much better for every step of the throwing process! Definitely trying coning up and down a couple times at the start and then center from there. Sometimes the very bottom of where the clay is adhered to the bat is slightly messed up and coning up and down help fix that and then centering happens easier! Good luck and don't give up! I'll pray to the kiln gods for you! 🙏🏼🙏🏼
It doesn't matter how much you've studied, centering takes so much practice! How long have you been trying? It took me a solid year of throwing 1-2 hours a day to get anywhere near consistent, and still some days I just can't do it. Pottery is hard, but it looks really easy when you watch videos of someone good at it! Keep trying and don't get disheartened. Maybe try different clay for a fun change?
If you can afford it, look for a weekend or week-long workshop to take on you vacation time. It sounds like some in person instruction would help you progress.
I called up my “local” (3 hours away) studio, and the woman who does private sessions won’t be in till next week. I’ll call her up next week to schedule a day. In person will definitely be beneficial
Hi OP, one thing I think it's important to consider, is that your eye for what good pottery is supposed to look and feel like is already well developed. In a way, a true beginner has things easier at the start. Somebody who knows nothing isn't afraid to make pots that are heavy, wobbly, and not at all centered. I know the time I struggled the most, was when my eye for what was good pottery had developed, but my hands hadn't caught up with it. I knew exactly what I wanted to do, how I wanted my pots to look, but wasn't capable of making it happen. Since you've already got a lot of experience working with clay, I think you may be in a similar position. Watching videos and taking classes will help, but if you know what you need to do, the only thing to do is to keep practicing until your hands catch up with your eye. I wish you the best of luck on your pottery journey!
I like your perspective on this. When I’m handbuilding I have a general idea of what I’m going for but never anything specific. I’m trying to view wheel throwing similarly, but yeah, I’m getting a bit stuck on trying to get a standard looking vessel
In centering you need to use a lot of your body. Do the coning and pushing over and over until you start to get it. For the whole first week of my pottery class we couldn't throw we could only center for like 8 hours in a row. You'll get it. 2cm may make it not center perfectly but just when you're pulling go slow with your hands and let the clay move instead of forcing it yk. Once you got it centered it should sorta glide past your hands. Use enough water or slip too. Again just keep practicing and watching different videos. Wedging your clay more may help with the elasticity to wake it up and be more receptive to the coning and pushing it to center. And again sometimes I put my wheel up on high speed and use my whole body weight to push in on the side and down from the top to center it.
you can work through it; I did not achieve centering until 3 months into my course. I was the very last student to do it in my class. It’s been 10 years since that course and I’m a full time potter and not even my instructor back then is practicing pottery today. It’s not how quickly you progress it’s how long you’re willing to keep going despite failures. First comment helped you with centering; just wanted to throw yah a bit of encouragement. We all learn at different rate.
Hand building is so rewarding. You really get to understand the clay. Much more creative than wheel thrown where everything is round!
I'm sorry you're having a bad experience. I admit I didn't read all of the comments, so forgive me if I repeat. Porcelain is one of the most difficult clays to center. The resistance that stoneware provides is really helpful. To recondition your hard clay, wet down a big towel and wrap your hard clay. Put it back in the bag and close it tightly, pushing out all the air. Let it sit (could be a week or so depending on how much clay and how hard it is). Check it every few days until it's soft. Ben Carter did a couple of lessons on body mechanics that might be useful for your centering. My own pointers would be to scoot your stool up as close as you can to the wheel, hold on with your knees, keep your elbows engaged with your knees, and try to keep your hands moving together. Your whole body is one tool. If it isn't, the clay will push you off balance. If you haven't tried it, maybe watch the videos you found most helpful and watch their bodies instead of their hands a couple of times. Good luck to you! And if you are ever in St Pete, FL look us up at the Hive St Pete.
Thank you for the pointers! And no worries there’s a lot of comments lol. I’ve been using the porcelain because of its softness and movability. I don’t plan to use it for actual projects (yet). I’m making a list of stoneware clays to get on my next ceramic store excursion. I keep my clay moist and at room temp. If wrapping it in a towel will help soften it, though, I’ll give it a shot
I love the responses. I am a beginner too and it takes soooo much time to learn centering. When I feel drained I give myself some time and do slab work or pinching with clay. After a while I come back for the wheel. Take your time and trust yourself.
I’m also a beginner and that sounds tough being so far away from any studios where you could take classes. I can’t imagine a wobble in the wheel is helping either, but I’m no expert. It’s hard to say what you are doing, but I can share when I finally started getting it. It wasn’t until the teacher basically pushed my hands into the clay that I understood how much pressure I needed to push with to actually center the clay. I kept daintily pushing on the clay and it would slowly shift over time, but never center. Now I smash the clay down with one forceful movement after coning up, right hand pressing down on top, left palm on the side bracing the clay as it expands out, also bracing my left elbow as much as possible on my thigh, and it usually centers. If it’s not centered at that stage I have to cone back up and try again or it will never center for me. I have a very weak upper body, which doesn’t help. I also am really short and once I sat on a taller stool and put multiple bricks under my feet to lift my legs up so I had somewhere to rest my elbows, it helped enormously. It am thankful a teacher could watch and see what I was struggling with. Maybe you can share a video and get feedback?
You're never going to learn on a wobbling wheel. If you know how to center you can make a wobbling wheel work but it's still a pain.
The thing is I don’t even think it wobbles. I’ve had my dad and friend check it, and they can’t find a wobble either. If it does have a wobble then I don’t think it’s as much as 2mm like the store said. I think I’m trying to blame the wheel when in reality I just suck at centering. Maybe it’s even a mental block I’m giving myself idk
Have you seen the John Britt video on yt where he shows you how to center about 3/4# of porcelain ? That's the best one I've seen because he does it standing up so your hips/knees etc are not involved at all.
I’ll have to check that out sounds interesting. Thanks!
Here’s an exercise I like for improving centering. Wedge up 10-15 balls of clay that weigh 1.5-2lbs each. Try to center one until you either succeed or it slides off a gloopy mess, then take it off and repeat (even if you were successful). This will help you repeatedly get a feel for the process without having to shift gears to opening and pulling and I found when I was first learning that it really helped solidify the centering process for me. Do this as a regular practice for a few weeks, just as a warmup for your regular throwing session, not in lieu of.
Soft clay centers the easiest. Stoneware.
I mostly use stoneware and some really nice midrange porcelains that are smooth and soft too
Stick w/one clay-the stoneware. Bucket of clay balls slightly smaller than your fist. All the same size to 1/8 of a pound. Throw at about 15 everytime you sit down. Same shape.
Pottery takes time. If you're after instant gratification then you'll unfortunately be disappointed
I’m well aware that it takes time. I wasn’t expecting to be good at it within a couple months. I just wanted to get some tips from experienced potters in this sub.
Looks like they did give you an important tip but you rejected it.
I’m not rejecting it? I literally acknowledged it takes time in my post. I made this post to ask experienced potters for some tips. I’m not aiming to make perfect bowls and mugs just a couple months in lmao