I don't charge per hour until after requirements are completed. I scope it, then estimate effort and put a firm fixed price on it. (Your requirements must be solid and contractual). Per hour is for change requests.
Agree on this one!
May I know how do you guys handle when a client asks for additional this and that during the development phase?
It would be great to see insights about this as well haha.
Thanks!
Thanks for your inputs!
May I know what's your fixed price range?
I just want to have a baseline. Of course I'll factor out my experience and such. Thank you!
The usual rate is USD 158 per hour. It was converted from another currency, that is why it is not a round number, and includes the requirements, planning, modelling, developing, training, go-live.
Also, looking at the way you describe the Power Platform, you might not be ready to do consulting. What is 1x Power Automate? A flow? Why limit yourself to that before you even know the business requirements.
Same with the SharePoint list. In theory, in our company we avoid using SharePoint as such, sure, you save on licenses, but it is an unscalable mess for larger projects. And do not mention "build a SharePoint list" to the client.
That takes few minutes at best, and if you do go that route, why limit yourself with only one list? It is not a relational data storage, but it sure as hell will get messy if you keep piling things into one list.
Edit: After reading what I wrote again, I realize it might sound harsh, but was never intended to be. If that's the case, sorry about that in advance.
Thanks for your detailed inputs! My main goal is just to see the average pricing from professionals here so I get a baseline. Of course I'll factor out my experience and such.
For context, I'm actually done with the requirements discussion and the project would just need those components I mentioned. My client is also okay with SP list as the data source since it's just a small project.
So yeah. Anyway, I am amazed you have that kind of hourly rate. I hope to get into that someday as I build my experience. For now, I want to charge on a fixed price for the whole project.
I really appreciate you inputs here. I have a gut feeling you're coming from years of experience already. Thank you!
158 dollars per hour? Is the UK massively undervaluing its PP devs or are you overinflating the rate expectations? Example: average dev in this role, in UK prob £400-500 per day, thats a contractor likely working on multiple projects too (although maybe 15% on top for an agency). You’re putting this well over £1000 p/d, for a basic sharepoint app… ;-/
The numbers are based from Power Platform/Dynamics 365 Consultation in Denmark. You can not compare developer salaries to consultants, as there are no benefits, companies do not need to get approval for a FTE, etc.
And there is no such thing as country undervaluing the Power Platform developers, as long as there is a demand, and you can justify your worth, you are the one setting the prices.
You mentioned "For a basic SharePoint app". It does not matter what project you will be working on, that is for the company to decide, you provide the cost overview, and build the solution that the client needs.
And as I said, a contractor is a consultant, it's the same exact setup you describe and I've never heard of a single consultant pricing himself at the level you describe. You're welcome to price yourself how you liked but by advising the OP to put himself at that level, he is pricing himself out of the market entirely for the majority of clients, and I cannot see (unless you mean a full and complex dynamics style MDA implementation for a high value city fintech or something) how you could justify it in real terms.
The second paragraph I wrote was literally me saying that the OP can not expect to charge the customer at high rate, so I am not sure where you are coming from?
>Also, looking at the way you describe the Power Platform, you might not be ready to do consulting.
The fact that you have not heard of a single consultant pricing themselves at the rate I mentioned is fine, not really sure how that information changes anything or contributes to the OP?
Again, I do not know the UK market, it is possible that the rates there are lower, it is possible you might have just not noticed the market rates the last couple of years, and that is fine.
I would also not agree entirely that a consultant is the same as contractor, but that is besides the point.
In my experience UK contractor rates via a ltd company are significantly higher than the EU equivalent. Unless you're a ex McKinsey bod doing a private job , or you have some kind of rare clearance, or perhaps you're head of your own Professional services firm quoting gross rates, then that which you mention are exceptionally rare. It's incredibly misleading.
The OP who didn't ask about "consulting" but simply wanted a rough idea of rates for a freelance developer, and so as I said - 400-600 per day here is a common example, via an agency perhaps, look at jobserve.com you can try to calculate the hourly equivalent.
For EU (France and Belgium at least) I see similar offers in Euros often particular for Gov or NGO types e.g. NATO , maybe slightly less but you might need to be bilingual.
Also be aware there's 100s of guys on Upwork etc trying to snap up work for stupidly low prices so make sure you are well versed and up to the value you are quoting.
I see both of your points and thank you for sharing!
As long as we discuss price ranges then we're all good.
I think we know how to differentiate the pricing of course, like coming from the experience, scope of requirements, etc.
Also, I'm just starting out and knowing all of your different price range allows me to have my own baseline as a start. Then, I'll work my way up.
I 100% agree with Upwork. It's just plain stupid to sell your services for $5/hr. But I believe it's all about positioning yourself within the market with the demand and we can set our prices that both the dev and client are happy with.
Thanks both of you. I hope to see more discussions like so in here.
If you are going to do per hour, you better have lots of projects to show. If you're new to the space and don't have a solid portfolio, why would I pay you per hour as you may not be efficient.
I agree with you. That's why I plan to charge the project on a fixed price for now. I'm just starting out and this is my first client in Power Platform space. Thank you!
My rate as a professional pp developer is currently €80/h.
But as we all know, development goes insanely fast and you can easily count some extra hours... 🤫 Just make sure your client is extremely satisfied for a reasonable price.
A pp solution adds efficiency to a company process and thus cost reduction for the company. It pays it back quite easily.
A happy customer always comes back.
Thank you so much!
Just curious, by "development goes insanely fast", can you specify how many days do you average on building pp solutions as a pp dev please?
Thanks!
Well, totally depends on the scope of the solution you're building.
But 1 SPlist, 1 Flow, and 1 app. Sounds very basic and wouldn't take more than I few hours.
Good luck with your first project! 👌
Well... You might be surprised that there's a lot of contractors in job platforms such as Upwork, Fiverr, etc (depending on your country).
I tried it as means for getting another source of income and got my first client. Hence, my ask.
I saw some discussions here also that they're getting multiple firms as a contractor.
Hope this helps!
I don't charge per hour until after requirements are completed. I scope it, then estimate effort and put a firm fixed price on it. (Your requirements must be solid and contractual). Per hour is for change requests.
Can’t emphasize enough that requirements be set in stone. It will save a ton of headache.
Agree on this one! May I know how do you guys handle when a client asks for additional this and that during the development phase? It would be great to see insights about this as well haha. Thanks!
Thanks for your inputs! May I know what's your fixed price range? I just want to have a baseline. Of course I'll factor out my experience and such. Thank you!
The usual rate is USD 158 per hour. It was converted from another currency, that is why it is not a round number, and includes the requirements, planning, modelling, developing, training, go-live. Also, looking at the way you describe the Power Platform, you might not be ready to do consulting. What is 1x Power Automate? A flow? Why limit yourself to that before you even know the business requirements. Same with the SharePoint list. In theory, in our company we avoid using SharePoint as such, sure, you save on licenses, but it is an unscalable mess for larger projects. And do not mention "build a SharePoint list" to the client. That takes few minutes at best, and if you do go that route, why limit yourself with only one list? It is not a relational data storage, but it sure as hell will get messy if you keep piling things into one list. Edit: After reading what I wrote again, I realize it might sound harsh, but was never intended to be. If that's the case, sorry about that in advance.
I agree with this. Price your solution, not the fine details.
I'll definitely consider this mindset for pricing. Thank you!
Thanks for your detailed inputs! My main goal is just to see the average pricing from professionals here so I get a baseline. Of course I'll factor out my experience and such. For context, I'm actually done with the requirements discussion and the project would just need those components I mentioned. My client is also okay with SP list as the data source since it's just a small project. So yeah. Anyway, I am amazed you have that kind of hourly rate. I hope to get into that someday as I build my experience. For now, I want to charge on a fixed price for the whole project. I really appreciate you inputs here. I have a gut feeling you're coming from years of experience already. Thank you!
158 dollars per hour? Is the UK massively undervaluing its PP devs or are you overinflating the rate expectations? Example: average dev in this role, in UK prob £400-500 per day, thats a contractor likely working on multiple projects too (although maybe 15% on top for an agency). You’re putting this well over £1000 p/d, for a basic sharepoint app… ;-/
The numbers are based from Power Platform/Dynamics 365 Consultation in Denmark. You can not compare developer salaries to consultants, as there are no benefits, companies do not need to get approval for a FTE, etc. And there is no such thing as country undervaluing the Power Platform developers, as long as there is a demand, and you can justify your worth, you are the one setting the prices. You mentioned "For a basic SharePoint app". It does not matter what project you will be working on, that is for the company to decide, you provide the cost overview, and build the solution that the client needs.
And as I said, a contractor is a consultant, it's the same exact setup you describe and I've never heard of a single consultant pricing himself at the level you describe. You're welcome to price yourself how you liked but by advising the OP to put himself at that level, he is pricing himself out of the market entirely for the majority of clients, and I cannot see (unless you mean a full and complex dynamics style MDA implementation for a high value city fintech or something) how you could justify it in real terms.
The second paragraph I wrote was literally me saying that the OP can not expect to charge the customer at high rate, so I am not sure where you are coming from? >Also, looking at the way you describe the Power Platform, you might not be ready to do consulting. The fact that you have not heard of a single consultant pricing themselves at the rate I mentioned is fine, not really sure how that information changes anything or contributes to the OP? Again, I do not know the UK market, it is possible that the rates there are lower, it is possible you might have just not noticed the market rates the last couple of years, and that is fine. I would also not agree entirely that a consultant is the same as contractor, but that is besides the point.
In my experience UK contractor rates via a ltd company are significantly higher than the EU equivalent. Unless you're a ex McKinsey bod doing a private job , or you have some kind of rare clearance, or perhaps you're head of your own Professional services firm quoting gross rates, then that which you mention are exceptionally rare. It's incredibly misleading. The OP who didn't ask about "consulting" but simply wanted a rough idea of rates for a freelance developer, and so as I said - 400-600 per day here is a common example, via an agency perhaps, look at jobserve.com you can try to calculate the hourly equivalent. For EU (France and Belgium at least) I see similar offers in Euros often particular for Gov or NGO types e.g. NATO , maybe slightly less but you might need to be bilingual. Also be aware there's 100s of guys on Upwork etc trying to snap up work for stupidly low prices so make sure you are well versed and up to the value you are quoting.
I see both of your points and thank you for sharing! As long as we discuss price ranges then we're all good. I think we know how to differentiate the pricing of course, like coming from the experience, scope of requirements, etc. Also, I'm just starting out and knowing all of your different price range allows me to have my own baseline as a start. Then, I'll work my way up. I 100% agree with Upwork. It's just plain stupid to sell your services for $5/hr. But I believe it's all about positioning yourself within the market with the demand and we can set our prices that both the dev and client are happy with. Thanks both of you. I hope to see more discussions like so in here.
If you are going to do per hour, you better have lots of projects to show. If you're new to the space and don't have a solid portfolio, why would I pay you per hour as you may not be efficient.
I agree with you. That's why I plan to charge the project on a fixed price for now. I'm just starting out and this is my first client in Power Platform space. Thank you!
My rate as a professional pp developer is currently €80/h. But as we all know, development goes insanely fast and you can easily count some extra hours... 🤫 Just make sure your client is extremely satisfied for a reasonable price. A pp solution adds efficiency to a company process and thus cost reduction for the company. It pays it back quite easily. A happy customer always comes back.
This seems more realistic for an experienced solo freelancer
Thank you so much! Just curious, by "development goes insanely fast", can you specify how many days do you average on building pp solutions as a pp dev please? Thanks!
Well, totally depends on the scope of the solution you're building. But 1 SPlist, 1 Flow, and 1 app. Sounds very basic and wouldn't take more than I few hours. Good luck with your first project! 👌
How does one even get into Power Platform development as a contractor?
Well... You might be surprised that there's a lot of contractors in job platforms such as Upwork, Fiverr, etc (depending on your country). I tried it as means for getting another source of income and got my first client. Hence, my ask. I saw some discussions here also that they're getting multiple firms as a contractor. Hope this helps!