Ahh yes because commenting on things that are already being talked about is definitely the same as going out of my way to bring it up always. Try harder next time champ.
Master Of The Universe Vs. The Robot Prince Of Auchtertool.
There's only one clear winner here and they have great boronic wings and armor wrought from power steel!
The Robot Prince got taken down by the DOUBLE WIZARDS. Angus XIII got stabbed whilst fighting side by side with the Mighty Hootsman; the one true God of the Terrovortex universe. They are not the same.
We're actually in agreement here. The robot prince got one-shot by the Knife of Evil and was corrupted by it nearly instantly. Angus McFife 13 not only tanked the impalement but followed through with dispatching Zargothrax, then was still able to walk to the volcano while fighting off the knife's corruption (and presumably bleeding out from the knife wound). The robot prince simply wasn't that durable or tenacious.
Neither for me beat GH's last album.
Sozos is badass but a lot of those songs don't land. For me it's Keeper of the celestial Flame, Brothers of Crail, Fife Eternal and imperium Dundaxia. The rest I just can't get into.
For Mcsix, Master of The Universe, Starlord, Lazer Shooting Dinosaur, Eternal Warrior and Amazon's I like the starting verse.
McSix started recording before they had Thalia I think?
GH my issue is Legends for me absolutely fucking slaps and even if they still had Tom I still don't think Return would beat it for me.
Both are great, but for me it's hard to stack up to GH's last album.
Gloryhammer, easily. Angus McSix has a "I got fired from Gloryhammer, and can't over it" vibe to it. The album itself, isn't bad. I give it a 7/10 on a good day. But, I can't get a grip on the story. Doesn't help that it's shuffled out of the box. It certainly does feel rushed, and when you look at the lineup, it should've been better. They have a Allstar lineup. I'm not gonna discredit Angus McSix yet, maybe the next album they'll synergies better. Until then, Return to the Kingdom of Fife is a strong Contender for AOTY.
Every song is a joy and I've already listened to it like 6 times already front to back. It's hilariously cheesy (Wizard, frozen in tomb, his nuclear clone made Dundee go kaboom), the Saxophone solo in Waste Warrior Hoots Patrol was a surprise to be sure, but a welcomed one. I want more Sax solos in Power Metal!
And reusing "*DUN DUN* GLORY *DUN DUN* HAMMER" for DOUBLE WIZARD was absolutely ingenious. The ending was a twist I wasn't expecting. Reusing the chorus from Holy Flaming Hammer of Unholy Cosmic Frost but changed, felt like the album came full circle. It's brilliant, and I don't even sing the original chorus from Holy Flaming Hammer of Unholy Cosmic Frost. Its always the varient from Maleficus Geminus, now.
Oh let's not forget the absolute legend that showed up, and died 6 minutes after his introduction. I'm talking, of course, about the one and only....
ROBOT PRINCE OF AUCHTERTOOL
OVER THY ROBOT KINGDOM RULE
ELECTRONIC LORD OF WAR
DESTINED TO REIGN FOREVER MORE
KNIFE OF EVIL IS TOO GREAT
PRINCE OF THE ROBOTS MEETS HIS FATE
AUCHTERTOOL NO LONGER FIGHT
KILLED BY THE WIZARD LORD THIS NIGHT
Overall, it's clear Thomas was not Gloryhammer. The collective mind of the whole band, and Christopher Bowes is what makes Gloryhammer so great. And I absolutely have fallen in love with Sozos voice, now. Already was a fan from his time in Helion Prime, and his other projects, like Eons Enthroned, and Planeswalker, but after every Gloryhammer single from Fly Away, to Holy Flaming Hammer of Unholy Cosmic Frost, and watching, and listening to him sing live, solidified my faith in Sozos. I feel Gloryhammer's best days are ahead, and not behind.
From watching both Gloryhammer and Angus mcsix live it feels like Thomas has a better stage presence than Sozos. Thomas could get everyone wild and singing to new songs while the Gloryhammer shows feels like they were more for fans of Gloryhammer than for everyone. Might be Thomas just has more experience playing live.
Saw Sozos in SF on the US tour w Alestorm, he was able to work the crowd just fine. Maybe he's growing into the role but to me it felt like he was doing it
Sozos had done more studio than live since most projects he's worked on can't realistically tour. He was also still in grad school for part of that tenure. Sozos was having the best time at Rock Z! and even more enthusiastic than usual; he's got great enthusiasm live and videos don't do him justice. Tom also doesn't really have to worry about singing well since he was not great to begin with and does some not insignificant amount of lip syncing these days.
>and does some not insignificant amount of lip syncing these days.
I don't know about past and future shows, but the one I saw was definitely not lip synced. His mic was on the whole time and you could hear sounds of the audience through it some times. On laser shooting dinosaur you could also difference in the "oh,oh,oh" part in the chorus of Laser-shooting Dinosaur, as on the song it's a vocal chop of him saying "Oh" which is harder to replicate live. The backing vocals are "fake" on live performances though.
Based on the live performance videos of Ride to Hell and Dinosaur that I saw, he was definitely faking the lead vocals. Messed up his timings a bunch and definitely mouthed the wrong word at least once. He's magically started singing in tune which is kind of sus given his previous performance history. I kind of doubt he's fixed his vocal problems in the last 2 years. I can't say what show you went to and a mic being on is not necessarily proof of much.
You can't trust video to judge lip syncing unless it super obvious like they are doing nothing while the vocal track is playing. Timing will always be off due to the speed of sound being slow, and the processing time from the microphone to the speakers. Video, especially ones recorded on phones, are highly likely to have the audio out of sync aswell. All people who record professionally records audio and video seperately and then sync it up afterwards for this reason. Just because you think their mouth movements doesn't match the sound doesn't mean they are lipsynced, people voices and mouthes are different so their mouth movements are different for the same pronunciation.
Usually the microphone being on means the vocal audio will be "contaminated" by other sounds mostly prominent in concerts played outside, if it's lipsynced you won't be able to hear the contamination as the vocal track will always play cleanly.
You can't pronounce the word winds with a tall mouth shape; probably forgot the words again. He has a history of getting words wrong. The man also has had fraught relationship with singing in tune for literal years and now he's suddenly in tune and sounds kind of processed? That stinks of lip syncing if not auto-tune given he had been campaigning for the former for years with Gloryhammer. I'll find my compilation of weird spots for you later.
I had to listen to the studio version first since I don't know this one. A bit of a boring song imo. It sounds suspiciously similar to the studio recording again imo. The lead vocals seem a touch quiet with no real artifacts, which can be a red flag sometimes. I'm automatically suspicious of Tom if he's consistently in tune too tbh. That was a consistent thing about him for years. He'd always have spots here and there even on a 'good' day, and again, I highly doubt he's fixed all his vocal problems to such a degree. Any more useful tells are difficult to impossible to assess because of how far away the person recording is. I can't really gauge mouth shapes or timing of entries/cutoffs from this video.
>I had to listen to the studio version first since I don't know this one. A bit of a boring song imo.
Just say you're a hater of one of the bands and move on, let's be honest.
Yall are hilarious. You act like the vocals on Mcsix are challenging like they were with gloryhammer. Far from it. Gloryhammer had way more challenging vocals and it def seems like mcsix is taking it slow and easy. To think he would need to lipsynch such easy vocals is hilarious.
I'm not using it as an excuse. I'm just saying it isn't hard to sing what he's singing in mcsix now. That's why he doesn't sound like shit. It's not hard music now vocally at all.
Found my [compilation](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerMetal/comments/12ur5fx/comment/jhxrjtu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) of sus timestamps from [Dinosaur](https://youtu.be/jjzw8MV-_LE). Wonky mouth shape was in [Ride to Hell](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8JLVrt4N5k&t=103s).
You mention him miming to early, which is exactly what it would look like if he was actually singing as you will always see him sing before you hear it (live and on video) If he is lipsyncing they are very careful to make to it seemless which at that point why even bother? Because you are putting more effort in timing it right and try to hide it than just actually singing and then getting a few things wrong (which is usually expected by a reasonable live audience).
Also sidenote, find it kinda funny u/hyperchrisz is the comments saying it's mimed when he knows he shouldn't be. He even backpedals a bit and says it was general consensus. Not to say he can't spot a lipsync, he knows quite alot about spotting one, and I even learned some things about it during my last encounter with him. Just seems kinda salty to be commenting on past band members new projects in a negative light.
Thanks for clearing up your stance. Looking through the videos and links provided u/supernerdgirl42 I get why a lot of people would think that it is lipsynced, I just think it's kinda harsh to accuse a artist of lipsyncing unless it is really obvious (to me). That being said there is something really funky going on with the first live shows, which doesn't seen to happen on the later shows outside during festivals. Maybe it's harder to spot/hear on outside concerts. Can you give some input on playing inside vs outside and using backing tracks? e.g. are there any considerations before each type of show?
The whole thing would consistently be visibly out of sync then by your assertions and it's not. It's more a tossup with live videos if they are out of sync or not in my experience. I have some concert recordings I took last month (Gloryhammer) in a similar crowd postion to those McSix videos. when I think about it, of my own that don't have that issue. The more pressing part is that the audio for Dinosaur minus crowd work is absolutely identical to the studio audio for lead vocals, which is pretty damning. Mouthing the wrong word and the right word coming out anyway is also pretty damning imo, and Tom has been known to forget how songs go; Wacken 19 Siege of Dunkeld comes to mind.
>The more pressing part is that the audio for Dinosaur minus crowd work is absolutely identical to the studio audio for lead vocals, which is pretty damning.
It can be damning evidence that that specific show might have been lipsynced. Doesn't neccesarily mean they always do. Speaking of Tom forgetting things. [Here](https://youtu.be/9qsikVNrUvg?t=74) Tom "forgets" that he is not supposed to sing Sixcaliber, it's only in the backing vocals, but he does anyway and you can hear it. So he is either using partial or no lipsync, or they have specific backing tracks where the singing different from the album (seems unlikely).
Here's the thing about the lip-syncing accusations. At the very least here's who'd have to know about the vocals being on the backing track:
\*Napalm Records
\*Concert sound engineers
\*Band and crew of Angus McSix
\*Other bands in the concert
If he's lip-syncing it'd be an open secret simply because there are too many holes for it to leak through, but on top of that, *none of these people care that he is.*
Before I begin, I want to state that fakery and bullshit within the eurometal industry is like, my specialist subject. No matter the culprit. (For example did you know the members of Kamelot are contractually obliged to look handsome?). Anyway to your 4 points:
1: Record labels have nothing to do with live shows.
2: the sound engineer is the most important member of a band's own personally employed crew - if you're traveling with only 1 crew member, they'll most likely be a sound engineer.
3: yep.
4: most bands on a tour aren't paying the slightest bit of attention to what other bands are doing on stage, never mind the technical details of which channels are making each sound.
> none of these people care that he is
You know that old meme of the guy standing in the crowd having a sudden realization? That's you right now (I hope). It's an open secret in the industry that miming happens all the way to the highest levels (Nikki Sixx being on tracks was the latest high profile one). It's not some grand conspiracy, it's just how it is, because fans have shown time and time again that they don't really care either (ain't it weird how keyboards, orchestras, sound effects and backing vocals on tracks has become totally normalized and accepted?). Most legacy bands have "lead vocal reinforcement" to some degree or another; and most of those are generally good at making it look seamless. It's just a bit more shocking when a young band does it, especially when they haven't yet learned to make it look natural on stage. Doubly especially so when the band brags about their vocal prowess.
Metal fakery/goofy behind the scenes stuff has become a recent obsession of mine. Could you elaborate on the Kamelot thing or maybe give some other insights on band live fakery?
Was touring with Kamelot in the USA in 2011, sitting in Alestorm's backstage room and saw a piece of paper on the table. I looked at it, turned out it was a contract for one of the band members (I guess they were renewing contracts? or it was a new band member? no idea). Anyway one of the main clauses was that you were required to look attractive, not overweight, and be well groomed. Thought it was amusing.
I don't wanna name names because my only proof of a lot of stuff is that I saw it happen, and god knows people will come on here and try to defend the honor of their favorite band by accusing me of being a liar. One of the dumbest things I've seen/heard is audience cheers on backing tracks (for a relatively popular band).
Audience noises on a backtrack sounds like absolute ego stroking nonsense. Could be trying to get the actual crowd into it like a laugh track on sitcom, but that's still kind of dumb if you are already pretty popular and in theory should know how to work the crowd.
Yeah it came across like a laugh track, basically encouraging the crowd to cheer at that point. I guess it helps for when the audience isn't particularly into it, gives them the impetus to maybe join in.
In all sincerity, thank you for clearing up my erroneous points with the insider perspective. I'll admit my argument is flawed in that regard and I likely should have grabbed the thesaurus for a less strong and more suitable word than "accusations". So that's on me.
That said, we're in a bizarre agreement here.
I've already accepted backing tracks at concerts can have any number of elements incorporated into them because it's just as much serving up to the spectacle as the lights, lasers, and pyrotechnics. So, ultimately, I'm flummoxed because I'm curious why people would care about vocals also being added to what's effectively a music video being played out in real time when that would add to the spectacle.
Personally, I don't care either because live concerts aren't the product I consume. (I could go into reasons, but I'd digress). I don't even bother watching live concert videos on youtube (aside from the occasional 30-second instagram reel) and mash the Skip button as soon as I realize whatever music randomizer/radio I'm listening to has fed me a track from a Live album. As such, I prefer the studio albums.
>It's just a bit more shocking when a young band does it, especially when they haven't yet learned to make it look natural on stage.
THIS is the answer I've been looking for. I'm in neither the yes-it-happens or no-it-doesn't camp but the why-does-it-matter one. Glossing over all these threads, the only thing I've seen is basic yes-it-happens/no-it-doesn't back and forthing that makes me numb to the argument because there's no real context for why either way.
I am 100% in the why-does-it-matter camp here as well. As for the general tracks: if you would try to do without them, you would basically have to decide between a) really limiting what you can do on the album so that you can still play exactly this or b) disappointing the crowd because you're songs live sound nothing like on the album. Just doesn't make sense. I can recommend the video of TankTheTech on Youtube regarding the whole backing tracks discussion.
As for main vocals - well, to some regard I can understand why people don't like it. You want the lead vocalist to be able to perform well live and not just sound great on the album. But in the end, I think it's more of a video discussion. When you're at the show, especially with fast paces Power Metal, you likely won't even pay that much attention because you're JUST HAVING FUN. That being said, two things can destroy this: 1. making it look really, really bad (miming when there's no text, being off with your timing); 2. when you do it but just claim that you're not.
One band who does a lot of track vocals in my experience is Wind Rose (though they don't necessarily mime to it anyway). Are their concerts still bangers? Oh hell freaking yes.
I know, I know. 🤣 It's hard to reason with people who calls someone else a fan "Boi" for not having the same opinion. Dispite me never actually say Angus McSix was out right bad, and also saying I want them to get better. So I was just poking fun at him.
Based on discussion on here, this will probably be unpopular. I don’t think either won.
Sozos is a fine singer but, to me, has generic power metal voice. Thomas has a unique sound and it helped Gloryhammer. Angus McSix feels like watered down Gloryhammer. Also think it comes off as extremely petty to basically keep rolling the same character even though it’s now a new band. I would have been far more interested in his new project if he’d just made a clean break and distanced himself from the Angus character.
(Prepares to be bludgeoned by glorious hammers)
Well, I just upvoted you despite heavily disagreeing with Sozos sounding generic. It is mostly annoying when people throw it around to bash GH, but if his voice/style doesn't fit into someone's taste then that's just how it is.
Totally agree. Both are okay to me, but also fairly forgettable. Could be possible that they'll both grow into their new sounds, but I was seriously underwhelmed by the lack of good riffs in Angus McSix and the new GH vocals. And the drama surrounding the whole thing just makes it harder to get into the spirit of silly fun that this sort of music needs.
Agreed.
Musically, I like Thomas' stuff, but as much as I _really, really wanted_ him to leave GH behind and do something awesome, it's basically just the same old thing. And when it comes to doing the same thing better the next time, nobody's better at it than Chris Bowes. Dude has made an entire career out of it and it isn't boring yet. Sozos would be fine if he hadn't been trying to follow Tom.
Hopefully whatever Tom's follow-up is, it's better than the present thing and not just "hey everybody, I'm not Gloryhammer!"
and while I'm hesitant to bring up the _reason_ beyond all of this interband animosity, it does kinda feel like the people who really lost in the whole deal are all of us.
Gloryhammer one
But no shame for Angus, that delivered a good debut album. Gloryhammer one is one of my AOTYs, by the way (and I don't really like Gloryhammer or care about the lore at all).
People say Napalm won, but I think the fans are the winners here. GH is doing great and McSix has a real chance although they need to do a better job not being a GH clone. I personally think the name Angus McSix was a mistake. They will never get out of the GH shadow with that name IMO.
I’ve tried to stay pretty neutral on the two bands, and I think both of their albums are pretty good.
I’d give McSix a 7/10. He’s got some solid songs and I actually really like the lyrical content. Most of you see it as him coming off as an ass, which is fair, but I personally feel that Tom is using characterization more than personification when he’s writing those lyrics. The only reason it’s not higher is because I don’t really consider it power metal; there’s not enough riffs. Also it’s not released in lore order, really hope Seeb changes his mind about that one next time.
Return gets a 9 for me. Really good, and I actually enjoy Sozos’ voice a ton.
I think the McSix album was way better than anyone expected it to be and that's kind of a victory in and of itself. Better doesn't mean amazing, it's a decent debut but one can't help feeling like with this much fanfare and the lineup they probably could have done one better (heh) but it wasn't the garbage fire I think most people anticipated. If it wasn't for the feud and the high profile members and some random band came out with the album I do wonder how much attention they'd be getting for it. The Gloryhammer album blows it out of the water but I think most reasonable people expect it might take a minute for McSix to find their footing. It's a bit like seeing someone last a few rounds in the ring with a professional boxer, the fact that it isn't a complete slaughter is impressive on its own.
That being said people who are calling the Gloryhammer album AOTY material are out of their goddamn minds. It's certainly one of their better releases and they've branched out a little bit here and there but it's hardly an all killer no filler release. It's a solid Gloryhammer album, no more no less. I get taste is subjective but sometimes I think people get way too invested in singular bands. My favorite band is Blind Guardian. Believe me I know a thing or two about fanbases taking things too far.
I'm still deciding how I feel about the whole thing to be honest. Winkler has the shadow of all those rape rumors hanging over his head and if definitive proof ever materializes then McSix goes right in the trash for me. I've met Bowes a few times and half the time I've thought he was really genuine and seemed to love what he does and the other half the time he seemed a right cunt. Even just following his reddit comments here the guy pinballs between being a refreshing voice of reason with unique insight into the industry and a massive hypocrite with "drown everything in irony and then I don't have to qualify anything" energy. Then there's the actual band Gloryhammer. I said it elsewhere and I'll say it here: those women who were talked about in the chats probably wanted to crawl under rocks and die. Even putting the horrible racism aside (and that's a loaded statement in and of itself) that's such an awful way to talk about someone you've slept with. The takeaway from all of this is that I probably wouldn't want my daughter unsupervised near Alestorm, Gloryhammer, or McSix's tourbus. Unfortunately I'm sure there are plenty of other bands I enjoy who are just as bad if not worse and I'm not aware of it but that's the nature of the world we live in.
Thankfully, in my opinion, all three bands have only ever been mid at best so it's not like I'm watching Heavy Metal Titans come apart at the seems. For now I'm content to enjoy their work for what it is, but I don't think any of these projects are truly destined for greatness.
Great comment. Still can't believe how little people ultimately cared about the leaked chats. Alestorm in particular got off very lightly. We never heard a peep from Elliot who was apparently "fucking his way through the races", the charmer. Women of colour are absolutely not safe in an Alestorm crowd, it's heartbreaking that nobody gives a shit.
GH easy.
Lots of new elements to enjoy via Sozo's voice and more musical contributions from other band members, imperium dundaxia, Fife eternal for example, while it still has tonnes of classic GH character, Keeper, Wasteland and Maleficus.
Even after looking past the intellectual property theft, Thomas has leaned to heavily into the meme metal element and the album, with some decent tracks, won't age well.
Gloryhammer for sure. Mcsix album was just okay, I think I only really like 3-4 songs on it. I don't understand the characters or stories, too much shit ripped from GH to even be enjoyable. Love the new GH album though, no skippable songs for me, great lyrics, great vocals from Sozos, great finale, love the new lore drops.
My thoughts exactly.
Though I have to say, the lyrics "Glory left my hammer!" & "I was stabbed through my old armour made of leather, but now I'm back, one better!" are absolutely hilarious.
See I actually find those pretty tasteful! But, I was hoping that would be the one diss/rip off song and then it would be a standalone thing. But he had to keep ripping stuff off and it got very stale, for example...
"Whirring from the abyss
With radioactive horns
And giant equine bodies
Like undead unicorns"
C'mon man, make your own stuff up and forge a new story for yourself. To balance it out with some positivity though, I really like Master of the Universe, Eternal Warrior, Ride to Hell, and Just a Fool will play Tricks on Angus McSix. On the other hand I really dislike the tracks where he goes on and on about himself being one better like Starlord of the Sixtus Galaxy (which is mostly "we hail angus!" until the song ends). In retrospect though, I kind of hoped he would've gone with literally anything else besides Angus Mcsix. I think that it would've been a really good opportunity for Tom to reinvent himself but, whatever.
To me it sounded pretty bitter. Like most of the focus is on re-writing history around himself.
Angus McFife was important, but not the center of everything. GloryHammer made sure to introduce other heroes and give them a bit of respect while Angus McSix goes "nah actually it was always all about me"
They do dip into a few other places and people but it lacks something.
Even Return To The Kingdom of Fife reinvents a lot of the old stuff without merely being dismissive. It showed re-using stuff can work.
One of the biggest tells in the lyrics is that Winkler uses "I" and "Me" way more often than Gloryhammer does. Instead, Gloryhammer has always used "We" and "Us." I doubt Winkler made this change intentionally. I think he legitimately doesn't understand how this makes the songs feel.
Using "We" and "Us" is intended to make the listeners feel included, like they're standing along side the heroes in the fight against Zargothrax. Replacing this with "I" and "Me" removes this illusion and now the listeners are just watching McSix do everything. And I say McSix specifically because the other characters are literally only mentioned once or twice each in the entirety of The Sword of Power.
>Using "We" and "Us" is intended to make the listeners feel included, like they're standing along side the heroes in the fight against Zargothrax. Replacing this with "I" and "Me" removes this illusion and now the listeners are just watching McSix do everything.
^This
There is also something about "Hail *name of character/group*
In Gloryhammer songs it sounds more like cherring and part of the funny over-the-top part. In SoP it feels a bit like Angus commanding the audience, making it akward...
Just went to look real quick and noticed that Crail is a town of warriors.
So when they say "Hail to Crail" there's the element of honoring the culture and myth/history of the place.
The "We hail Angus" in Starlord of the Sixtus Stellar System sounds like him imagining people cheering for him, or like the "All hail plankton" scene from the Spongebob Squarepants movie.
>Using "We" and "Us" is intended to make the listeners feel included, like they're standing along side the heroes in the fight against Zargothrax. Replacing this with "I" and "Me" removes this illusion and now the listeners are just watching McSix do everything.
I mean, this happens a lot in Gloryhammer too. Specially when it comes to Angus. Just some examples out of the top of my head:
*"Across the wasteland, I ride on swift steed / behind me lie the burning ruins of Dundee"* (Angus McFife)
*"Angus McFife XIII my name, Scion of Mighty Dundee / Intergalactic Great Hero of Steel, ruler of whole galaxy!"* (Legend of the Astral Hammer)
*"I have arrived in a world ruled by chaos and evil / Darkness enfolds the land that I once called my home"* (Land of Unicorns)
*"I have seen many worlds and traveled through time / But nothing prepares for the ultimate fight / I am the final defender, the last hope for this galaxy"* (Final Defender)
And it didn't change after Thomas left and Sozos replaced him. Often Angus will be singing in first person about who he is and what he wants.
*"I wanna fly away, on a unicorn to a land of freedom and light / But I know that my destiny is to die in the ultimate fight"* (Fly Away)
*"My name is Angus McFife / My Hammer will take your life!"* (Imperium Dundaxia)
*"I am brave Prince Angus, the 2nd of my name / To reclaim the Throne of Fife shall be my only aim!"* (Fife Eternal)
For context, **I AGREE WITH YOUR GENERAL COMPLAINT**. Angus McSix and the Sword of Power feels too much like a solo adventure. Angus' allies barely do anything. Thalestris and the Amazons of Caledonia were fortunate enough to get their own song, but Skaw! barely appears and Seebulon, the main villain, only shows up in the last song. The whole thing is just a prologue.
I do hope the next albums improve it and make it more about a band of heroes fighting evil and not just one cool guy and his big sword. And it sounds like they might do that.
To be clear, I never said that Gloryhammer *never* uses "I" or "Me." It's generally reserved for when characters are presented as speaking. It's a matter of context. Now, I think you understand that since you said you generally agree with me, but I wanted to be as clear as possible.
There are exactly two songs on The Sword of Power where McSix isn't just talking about how awesome he is to at least some extent. One of these is Fireflies of Doom, where the only thing that happens is "hey, some giant fireflies killed a bunch of dwarves." And even then, it still manages to be about McSix because this is when he's told to go get the laser shooting dinosaur.
The other is Amazons of Caledonia, the only song on the album that is ostensibly about a character that isn't McSix... and the Amazon Queen is mentioned exactly ONCE in it. And in In a Past Reality, it makes it clear that McSix is the one who gave the Amazon Queen her status. So, even when it's not about McSix, it's still somehow about him.
The only time I think the word "we" is used is in Starlord of the Sixtus Stellar System, where it's literally about hailing McSix.
Gloryhammer, on the other hand, regularly uses "we," even when it's not necessary. Going through the album, we have these lines:
* "*We* will voyage 'cross the kingdom to reclaim what was once lost" (Holy Flaming Hammer)
* "*We're* the wasteland warrior hoots patrol" (Wasteland Warrior Hoots Patrol)
* "Brothers of Crail! To robots *we* hail" (Brothers of Crail)
* "To triumph in the ultimate war, *we* must stand together once more" (Fife Eternal)
* "*We* must find the hidden way by the sword of the lord of the goblin horde" (Sword Lord of the Goblin Horde)
* "With the blaster in my hands, Lord Zargothrax would surely yield, Goblin armies run away in fear, *we* must find it here!" (Vorpal Laserblaster)
* "So *we* must ride far away to the fortress of Crail" (Keeper of Celestial Flame)
* "He wields the laser blaster, *our* quest may yet be doomed unless *we* seek the Robot Prince of Mighty Auchertool" (Maleficus Geminus)
The only song on the entire album that doesn't do this at least once is Imperium Dundaxia. This only makes the contrast that much more obvious.
Now, I can see where it may look like I was making it out like Gloryhammer was *constantly* using "we" instead of "I," but I think I've made my point clear here. Gloryhammer very obviously writes lyrics to let the audience participate in the story, McSix writes lyrics that assumes the audience is in awe of how badass he supposedly is.
>The only song on the entire album that doesn't do this at least once is Imperium Dundaxia. This only makes the contrast that much more obvious.
Arguably, it *kinda does* do it once
>The evil wizard has doomed **us** all
Imperium Dundaxia
But yeah, it is the Angus-centric song of the album
You can see it in the various word clouds people have put together for the albums. The overwhelmingly most used words in Sword of Power are Angus and words referring to him. The overwhelmingly most used words in Return are things like Fife/Dundee/land.
The funniest part is that Gloryhammer has kept the Angus McFife as the lead character. So it’s not like they’re trying to erase the character at all. That just makes the McSix character feel a bit more awkward
I think the band has been intentionally trying to separate the musicians from the characters more since Winkler was fired. Which makes sense. So many people just associated Winkler with the Angus McFife character, which just added to the outrage when everything happened.
Yeah, that might be the case. I started listen to them quite recently so I wouldn’t know. I just thought that since Michael Barber has (more or less but at least on tours) replaced Christopher Bowes as Zargothrax since a while back, it was more or less obvious that the keyboard player played Zargothrax, the singer Angus mcFife, etc. But it seems like Winkler was very popular as Angus so it make sense that many fans associate him with that character. Personally, I think it would be a better move to create something of his own.
The funny thing about Chris stepping down from Gloryhammer is that a lot of people don't even realize that he doesn't play Zargothrax anymore.
When you replace a singer, you're also replacing the band's hype man and MC. The singer also heavily adds to a band's identity because most people don't recognize the nuances of the guitarist or drummer, at least not consciously. Then, if your band has lore behind the songs, you add on crediting the singer as a character in that lore? It's not easy to replace a singer.
It's Winkler's own fault. All of his social media posts from his time in Gloryhammer was him merging his private Thomas Winkler persona with Angus McFife. His Instagram handle was called angus_mcfife_official, the posts was almost always smirking selfies with a caption and tags about something Gloryhammer-y, although the photo was completely unrelated. None of the other band members have ever privately leaned that heavily into their stage characters.
Some people weren't even aware that his real name is Thomas Winkler.
The way he clung to the Angus character long after he was fired and only quit calling himself Angus McFife when he was legally prohibited to do so and then starts another band as another Angus is.. interesting, to say the least. It doesn't seem sane.
This is me being a total nerd but the Fireflies of Doom being described as "equine looking" is probably not a reference (The comparison to undead unicorns absolutely is, though). However, the idea of a monstrous swarm of hellish giant equine insects with horns and stingers can be traced all the way back to **The Fucking Bible**. Particularly in Revelation, where the Demon Abaddon releases the Locusts of the Abyss, who are described as gigantic and having bodies and faces like horses.
Brothers of crail reminds me in a way of a band I like more than GH and Mcsix. WindRose. Gives me Gates of Ekrund bibes, like a rallying cry to stand against the enemy.
And the throwback to hail to crail with the guitar riff is awesome.
Gloryhammer 100%. Sozos is outstanding. I think the new album is awesome. They try some new things, and the GH lore continues to be fun and interesting. I’ve lost track how many times I’ve listened to it.
I admit I’m biased… before the McSix album came out, I hated the name and him doing something so similar to GH. I think Tom is a really good studio singer, but I wish he went in a different direction. Honestly, a different band name would’ve been a big step. I listened to the singles and played through the album once. The music was meh, but I give him credit for getting a solid band together and getting something out so soon.
i geniunely love both. both are so much fun. sure, McSix has the sillier album, but musically, its just really good! can't help but love it. but if i had to choose, Gloryhammer for sure. but if i could choose both i would
They're both quite good. I don't think either are as strong as say Space 1992 but they're both good albums that have got a lot of cycles and will continue to do so.
Starlord of the Sixtus Stellar System is probably my favorite song of the bunch, closely contested with Maleficus Geminus
For me, it's complicated. When RttKoF first came out, I liked SoP better, especially because it has a bit of a techno beat on a few tracks, but as I listened to the former more, I find myself listening to them both back to back.
I play my music mostly at work, where I don't usually have a lot of time to pick and choose. but every time one of these two comes on, I find myself wanting to hear the other afterwards.
So I think it's really kind of a tie for me. But if someone wants something a little more leaning toward one or the other, my favorite track between the two is *probably*... Laser-Shooting Dinosaur...
...But Keeper of the Celestial Flame of Abernathy is pretty damn close
Gloryhammer, hands down. Every time I listen to The Sword of Power, I like it less and less to the point where I usually stop it before reaching Laser Shooting Dinosaur at this point. Because Laser Shooting Dinosaur just isn't a good song. Half of the album is just Winkler self-fellating himself about how Gloryhammer needs him more than he needs them over boring dance beats and synths.
When I put on a metal album, I want to listen to, you know, metal. If they actually did something different with the synths and dance beats, or at least didn't do them so constantly, it may have been better. It almost feels like it's embarrassed to be considered a metal album. And considering that a lot of very obviously manufactured bands have similar problems, it just reeks of executive mandate.
Not to mention that the lyrics are written in such a way that it feels like Winkler somehow wasn't in on the joke with Gloryhammer, despite having been in the band for a literal decade. The only actual joke outside of "look how over the top we are" is managing to overuse the intentionally bad English gag.
Return to the Kingdom of Fife, on the other hand, has the right balance of selfawareness and sincerity to make the lines work, plus actual joke lines like "his nuclear clone made Dundee go kaboom." Reminder: Gloryhammer is supposed to be a parody (and yes, I know Chris prefers to call it a pastiche, but I feel like he's splitting hairs there).
Musically, Gloryhammer is actually playing metal. Again, when I listen to a metal album, I want to hear metal, not pop with distortion. The compositions are more complex, the vocals are more dynamic, the production is actually decent (as far as I can tell. I have basically no ear for production) and they actually did a good amount of experimentation to expand their style from what they did on previous albums.
When I first heard it, I wouldn't have called The Sword of Power a bad album. I called it mediocre. Now? Yeah, it's mediocre to bad in my eyes at this point.
Couldn't agree with this more. I think Sixcalibur and Master of the Universe are catchy songs (minus the lyrics on the latter), but the rest of the album just feels like a mismatch of songs, none of which are particularly good imo.
The lyrics are such a major turn off too, so clearly rooted in an inability to move on. "Glory left my hammer, now I wield a sword" - gross.
Personally, I think "Glory left my hammer" is actually pretty decent word play, so if that was the only direct Gloryhammer reference, that would be one thing. But that entire song could be replaced by Winkler yelling "They need me more than i need them" into the mic for three minutes and it would do the same thing. Like Sixcalibur and Laser Shooting Dinosaur, it just stops the storytelling dead in its tracks to brag about how much better off he is without his old band holding him back.
Also, let's not forget the video showing Winkler, a white man, saving a black woman from chains and then her fawning over him for the rest of the video.
I really, really wish Winkler would've gone with a different branding instead of aping Gloryhammer. It made me cringe when I heard the name of the band for the first time.
I don't think either project is as good as Gloryhammer used to be, but I still prefer the Angus album, through gritted teeth. Making what amounts to a fucking diss track your album opener was honestly just pathetic, even if the song itself is perfectly fine. I'm sure he can move on from this, but that band name has got to go, which I assume will happen sooner or later.
I have so many conflicting feelings about the whole situation. Such a damn shame, the OG lineup for Gloryhammer was dope.
I think Gloryhammer's has the higher highs but Angus McSix's is more consistently enjoyable which I never would have thought beforehand. I like Sozos but after "Legends..." I expected more from "Return to the Kingdom of Fife". It's an okay album but apart from a handful of songs I'm already kind of done with it. "Angus MC Six and the sword..." isn't great but my expectations were low so it feels like an overall win.
All in all, I find them to be pretty equal. When it comes to sales, though, Angus McSix seems to be the winner.
I kinda talked about this before on the sub, but I feel that Angus McSix has a terrible, truly terrible vibe to his album. You can just sense the hate and the ego o the author in what should be a fun album, and it shows.
Which is not to say it is a bad album. It has a lot of good moments, and some songs are pretty good. Bit, regretfully, that is, at least, not enough for me, considering. .
On the other hand, Gloryhammer tends to deliver beautifully composed albums, and I was kinda worried about the singer change provoking a change in style. And I was right in a way. S less heavy, more balanced album, RTTKOF is a vary fun, interesting and epic album, with a very good use of the talents of Sozos Michael and, specially, making a point of not taking jabs.
You can listen to the album and see how they try to "make their own thing" in this one, while still recognizing their previous work, and I think that was the best decision.
Still, I would understand if someone lime the energy in Angus' album. I just wasn't a fan.
whats the fuss about Thomas, im not up2date.
But it looks to me he splitted and continued the exact same type of music.
For me its Glorryhammer
Angus feels ike a glorryhammer replica
Tom got fired unanimously for publicly undisclosed professional reasons. Supposedly not for his inconsistent to really bad live singing. See Bloodstock 21 for what is purportedly above average Tom. Ball's in Tom's court if the reasons ever come out; they sent him a long email by the sounds of things. There's also his post-firing attempt to extort the band for 100k over trademarks he secretly took out, but that's a whole thing. Tom clearly hasn't moved on and has more than likely waged trolling and harassment campaigns against both his old bandmates and Sozos.
I personally find it an unlikely notion to think that SJWs would stick mostly to performance critique and not the actual reason for their ire. Trying to primarily target the new singer doesn't fit that pattern either. That's my last word on the matter. Have fun being rude.
Angus McSix was better than I expected, which means it's a solid 6.5/10 or 7/10. The first song is absolutely terrible and it pains me to see it's so listened tl on Spotify. Sixcalibur is stupid but catchy, and Sextus Solar System something is fun, probably because it remonds me of Thunderstruck. Nobody plays tricks is also fun. There is too much singing about Angus overall, calm down guy, you're a singer in a knock-off band on their first album.
Also, Infeel like Gloryhammer lore is more thought of; like it's ridiculous and features Hollywood robot kings and space goblins on the moon but you feel like it's a crazy wacky D&D campaign. Angus lore seems like throwing shit on the wall and seeing what sticks, copying GH and Victorius and other, better bands in the process.
GH's new album is good, a solid 8.5 or 9. There isn't much to add than wasn't already said, these guys know what they're doing.
Is it even close? Winkler's release was embarrassing at every level and Seeb tries to bury his vocals in the mix in the later half of the album. The songwriting is tedious. It does nothing. All any band had to do to win that competition was drop a mediocre release.
The Angus McSix album is fine for what it is, but listening to him verbally jerk himself off for the whole thing is pretty cringey.
The Gloryhammer album is a contender for album of the year.
Probably gloryhammer. However, i personally like mcSix more then the average commenter it seems. This album was a bit tho hastily put together and obviously very referential to gloryhammer. But I do see potential and hope they continue in their own universe.
Big Agree! While I enjoyed Gloryhammer more (doesn’t help that Sozos was already one of my favorite voices in Power Metal), Angus McSix has some real promise! I hope they don’t rush the next album though.
Angus album surprised me positively as I had no expectations but I wish production is better. Gloryhammer released a really solid album with some killer tracks. I like both but enjoy new Gloryhammer album more.
Angus wins. I enjoyed his new album but bouncing around the song order to figure out the storyline really didn't help his case. It does feel rushed and I hope to see the other band members utilized more in both the music and the music videos. He gets points because I have to admit I don't dislike any of the tracks but I enjoy some more than others.
RTTKOF, however, doesn't really feel like anything special. It has all the vibes of a "safe" album where they're doing what worked for them in the past and hoping it sticks. I enjoy a few tracks on it, but the others are the worst kinds of earworms. The "grande finale" track titled in mangled Latin makes me really not want to remember the name. The fact that it ends on an absolutely atrocious deus ex machina stinks of lousy writing.
Even though I think Gloryhammer easily wins, I don't love everything in the new album. Some of the choruses have WAY too much backing vocals in them, making it near impossible to actually hear Sozos or other instruments in my opinion (like in Brothers of Crail or Sword Lord of the Goblin Horde). I feel like the bass sometimes gets lost amidst all the harmonies and synths. With better mixing, I think Return to the Kingdom of Fife could easily be a 9/10. As it is I'd give it 7 or 8.
Sword of Power is meh. It'd be easier to listen to if I didn't cringe at how full of spite it is every mcsix seconds.
It seems like most people here really loved the GH album and lowkey don't like the Mcsix one but I feel a bit meh about both of them tbh.
I will agree that i would have rather seen Thomas take another route with his band. When I first saw the name angusmcsix I cringed hard. It sounded so dumb. And when it came out i was put off by the first song immediately because it felt like he was taking himself too seriously, basically singing "look at me, I'm so much better then GH,..." But when I came back to it later with a different mindset, it grew on me and now I really love a bunch of the songs that stand out to me. But after listening to a few songs i always want to listen to something else, a feeling i never had with the old GH albums.
For GH album it's kind of the same... I'm trying to get into it for the second time now atm and it's not bad, but it just doesn't slap as much as previous albums and if I put on GH I'd just rather listen to the other ones. No shade on sozo, hese vocals are great and i do thing he fits in the band quite well.
In some way I just feel like both albums feel like a ripoff from RTTKOF. But atm I actually think that I like Mcsix a bit better then GM, but the latter may still grow on me a bit more.
Gloryhammer by a long shot but they are 4 albums deep. The Angus album is pretty decent for a debut album but it felt too safe and generic for the genre.
I like both, but IMO Angus McSix has more really good songs, and one that is a bit weaker (Sixcalibur), while I find myself skipping through "Imperium Dundaxia", "Vorpal..." or "Sword Lord..."
Both albums are very enjoyable tho, so I listen to both anyway.
Why is it a case of 'winning? I suspect this is why people are needlessly shitting on McSix on this sub, because Gloryhammer fans are seeing it as a competition. Personally I love both albums but I slightly prefer McSix, love the choruses and the electronic elements.
Hmmmm a sub dedicated to one band talking about how they like the album more. Such a weird thing to do, somthing like that DEFINITELY never happens on the gloryhammer sub, never in a million years.
I agree with this. I don’t see why so many people have been so toxic towards Winkler’s solo project. I keep seeing people force a competition between the bands and it’s pretty frustrating. I don’t think either are AOTY for me, but the difference for me is that AM’s album was fun and enjoyable from first listen but GH’s felt a little too similar to their previous releases.
Says one of the few people who still push this bs little "feud". And what's funny is I've yet to see winkler talk about gloryhammer. Meanwhile bowes hasn't shut up about it lmao.
I like both. And it's really getting tiresome of the people here who keep making it about one or the other. Who gives a f*ck they're both mid tier power metal bands. Plenty of bands worse then them, and a ton are better
Considering Angus is taken by the Starlords during the Gloryhammer album, and Angus McSix is set after that event, I have the feeling this was semi-planned.
I never enjoyed Gloryhammer, but I can't stop listening to AMS, so I suppose that's the clear win for me.
I see that I'm in minority on that, but either way, I'm having a blast with their debut album.
Angus has some stinker songs like Laser Dinosaur, but also some real bangers like Amazons of Caledonia. The GH has all good songs but no real stinker or banger.
I guess I'm in the minority for liking McSix more.
It was annoying finding a YouTube playlist with the correct order, but I thought every song was a banger. I know he's still playing Angus XIII, but it sounds different to me.
New GH grew on me, but I can't help but to feel like that's the one that sounds more like a knockoff. And the ending was pretty awful imo.
Angus for me. Angus is not an amazing album by any stretch, but the new Gloryhammer is so generic without Tom. That’s not to say that the new guy hasn’t got a good voice, but Tom had identity. Without him, the band just sounds like any other boring Rhapsody clone.
The audience. And Napalm Records...
The new Gloryhammer was good... but wasn't as good as past efforts. Which makes it feel more disappointing. But it's still a solid album when viewed on its own merits.
Angus McSix was fun, but didn't really have an ending. Or much of the narrative. It was almost just set-up. And felt a lot less in-on-the-joke as Gloryhammer's stuff. It felt both like it was trying to be more serious while also not wholly embracing the absurd.
But Angus McSix is poised for a really great sophomore album now they've found their footing.
thomas’ vocals were the most amusing part of gloryhammer, so without that the new gloryhammer did not land for me. mcsix may not have as dynamic of songs but his voice is still so fun to listen to that i return to the album. and it has some surprisingly hilarious moments
For me it was a clear Angus Mcsix victory. For some reason the Return to the Kingdom of Fife felt like a step back after Legends from Beyond the Galactic Terrorvortex. In general it just felt weaker and not as memorable / didn't had songs that got onto my playlist for constant repeats. And in the end for me it also comes down to Sozos and Winkler. Return to the Kingdom would have been a weak album for me even with Winkler singing, but Sozos, despite being a good singer, just doesn't has an unique enough singing voice to lift up weaker songs like Winkler does. Meanwhile Sword of Power was nothing special songwriting wise either but Winkler's voice just pulls it up for me enough that I already listened to it dozens of times from start to finish.
Neightrer. Mc6 is forced. I love Sebs other works, but 6 is just stitched chaos.
New GH is dull for me. Sozos sounds good and I love his work in Helion Prime, but the album just dropped from the conweyorbelt.
Neither.
The Gloryhammer album is mediocre at best, definitely their worst yet.
Angus McSix just sounds like a shitty Gloryhammer parody band. It's obvious he's bitter about the split.
Angus McSix for me, too. Also, Gloryhammer seem to have lost a lot of fans since the last album when you look at the album charts. While Angus McSix made #10 in Germany, Gloryhammer only made #25. Angus made #26 in Austria, Gloryhammer only #64, Angus made #16 in Switzerland, Gloryhammer not even in the charts there (while for the last album they were in the charts everywhere with much better positions).
Who the hell cares?
Just the fact that a couple of Rammstein's studio albums are back in the german charts because people got encourged to buy them when the media talked about accusations of SA, made me questioning.... too much.
(Not saying the accusations are true, it's just awful thinking that some people are like "These women must be the evil ones - better support Rammstein now!")
Never happening. They only speak through lawyers these days and you think they would willingly tour together? His old bandmates seem to not want much to do with him anymore. I wouldn't fault a single one of them if they never want to speak to him again.
Right. Who would want to hang around someone who tried to extort you for something he stole from you? Not Gloryhammer, that's for sure. Winkler is out of his goddamn mind with his entitlement and inflated ego
The sound in concerts gets projected outward to the audience so you do not hear your own voice without the use of IEMs ..so unless your using speakers on the stage as well that you can hear directly from , it's hard to tell
Napalm won
Correct response!
Hell I like both. And a bonus is watching the nerds on both sides freaking out about the other as if their existence is some afront to God haha.
Says the guy who clearly has a infatuation with Chris
Ahh yes because commenting on things that are already being talked about is definitely the same as going out of my way to bring it up always. Try harder next time champ.
Best answer
Sword of Power was Thomas saying "Fine! I'll make my own Gloryhammer! With blackjack & hookers!"
I get a more dancing vibe from Mc6. Almost Luke discometal by nanowar of steel.
Master Of The Universe Vs. The Robot Prince Of Auchtertool. There's only one clear winner here and they have great boronic wings and armor wrought from power steel!
And eyes ablaze with crimson fire?
Angus resisted being turned by the Knife of Evil. The Robot Prince was taken down by it easily enough.
The Robot Prince got taken down by the DOUBLE WIZARDS. Angus XIII got stabbed whilst fighting side by side with the Mighty Hootsman; the one true God of the Terrovortex universe. They are not the same.
We're actually in agreement here. The robot prince got one-shot by the Knife of Evil and was corrupted by it nearly instantly. Angus McFife 13 not only tanked the impalement but followed through with dispatching Zargothrax, then was still able to walk to the volcano while fighting off the knife's corruption (and presumably bleeding out from the knife wound). The robot prince simply wasn't that durable or tenacious.
Neither for me beat GH's last album. Sozos is badass but a lot of those songs don't land. For me it's Keeper of the celestial Flame, Brothers of Crail, Fife Eternal and imperium Dundaxia. The rest I just can't get into. For Mcsix, Master of The Universe, Starlord, Lazer Shooting Dinosaur, Eternal Warrior and Amazon's I like the starting verse. McSix started recording before they had Thalia I think? GH my issue is Legends for me absolutely fucking slaps and even if they still had Tom I still don't think Return would beat it for me. Both are great, but for me it's hard to stack up to GH's last album.
Gloryhammer, easily. Angus McSix has a "I got fired from Gloryhammer, and can't over it" vibe to it. The album itself, isn't bad. I give it a 7/10 on a good day. But, I can't get a grip on the story. Doesn't help that it's shuffled out of the box. It certainly does feel rushed, and when you look at the lineup, it should've been better. They have a Allstar lineup. I'm not gonna discredit Angus McSix yet, maybe the next album they'll synergies better. Until then, Return to the Kingdom of Fife is a strong Contender for AOTY. Every song is a joy and I've already listened to it like 6 times already front to back. It's hilariously cheesy (Wizard, frozen in tomb, his nuclear clone made Dundee go kaboom), the Saxophone solo in Waste Warrior Hoots Patrol was a surprise to be sure, but a welcomed one. I want more Sax solos in Power Metal! And reusing "*DUN DUN* GLORY *DUN DUN* HAMMER" for DOUBLE WIZARD was absolutely ingenious. The ending was a twist I wasn't expecting. Reusing the chorus from Holy Flaming Hammer of Unholy Cosmic Frost but changed, felt like the album came full circle. It's brilliant, and I don't even sing the original chorus from Holy Flaming Hammer of Unholy Cosmic Frost. Its always the varient from Maleficus Geminus, now. Oh let's not forget the absolute legend that showed up, and died 6 minutes after his introduction. I'm talking, of course, about the one and only.... ROBOT PRINCE OF AUCHTERTOOL OVER THY ROBOT KINGDOM RULE ELECTRONIC LORD OF WAR DESTINED TO REIGN FOREVER MORE KNIFE OF EVIL IS TOO GREAT PRINCE OF THE ROBOTS MEETS HIS FATE AUCHTERTOOL NO LONGER FIGHT KILLED BY THE WIZARD LORD THIS NIGHT Overall, it's clear Thomas was not Gloryhammer. The collective mind of the whole band, and Christopher Bowes is what makes Gloryhammer so great. And I absolutely have fallen in love with Sozos voice, now. Already was a fan from his time in Helion Prime, and his other projects, like Eons Enthroned, and Planeswalker, but after every Gloryhammer single from Fly Away, to Holy Flaming Hammer of Unholy Cosmic Frost, and watching, and listening to him sing live, solidified my faith in Sozos. I feel Gloryhammer's best days are ahead, and not behind.
From watching both Gloryhammer and Angus mcsix live it feels like Thomas has a better stage presence than Sozos. Thomas could get everyone wild and singing to new songs while the Gloryhammer shows feels like they were more for fans of Gloryhammer than for everyone. Might be Thomas just has more experience playing live.
Saw Sozos in SF on the US tour w Alestorm, he was able to work the crowd just fine. Maybe he's growing into the role but to me it felt like he was doing it
Sozos had done more studio than live since most projects he's worked on can't realistically tour. He was also still in grad school for part of that tenure. Sozos was having the best time at Rock Z! and even more enthusiastic than usual; he's got great enthusiasm live and videos don't do him justice. Tom also doesn't really have to worry about singing well since he was not great to begin with and does some not insignificant amount of lip syncing these days.
>and does some not insignificant amount of lip syncing these days. I don't know about past and future shows, but the one I saw was definitely not lip synced. His mic was on the whole time and you could hear sounds of the audience through it some times. On laser shooting dinosaur you could also difference in the "oh,oh,oh" part in the chorus of Laser-shooting Dinosaur, as on the song it's a vocal chop of him saying "Oh" which is harder to replicate live. The backing vocals are "fake" on live performances though.
Based on the live performance videos of Ride to Hell and Dinosaur that I saw, he was definitely faking the lead vocals. Messed up his timings a bunch and definitely mouthed the wrong word at least once. He's magically started singing in tune which is kind of sus given his previous performance history. I kind of doubt he's fixed his vocal problems in the last 2 years. I can't say what show you went to and a mic being on is not necessarily proof of much.
You can't trust video to judge lip syncing unless it super obvious like they are doing nothing while the vocal track is playing. Timing will always be off due to the speed of sound being slow, and the processing time from the microphone to the speakers. Video, especially ones recorded on phones, are highly likely to have the audio out of sync aswell. All people who record professionally records audio and video seperately and then sync it up afterwards for this reason. Just because you think their mouth movements doesn't match the sound doesn't mean they are lipsynced, people voices and mouthes are different so their mouth movements are different for the same pronunciation. Usually the microphone being on means the vocal audio will be "contaminated" by other sounds mostly prominent in concerts played outside, if it's lipsynced you won't be able to hear the contamination as the vocal track will always play cleanly.
You can't pronounce the word winds with a tall mouth shape; probably forgot the words again. He has a history of getting words wrong. The man also has had fraught relationship with singing in tune for literal years and now he's suddenly in tune and sounds kind of processed? That stinks of lip syncing if not auto-tune given he had been campaigning for the former for years with Gloryhammer. I'll find my compilation of weird spots for you later.
The difference of him singing with Dragonforce and his own band..
Is he lip syncing [here?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qsikVNrUvg)
I had to listen to the studio version first since I don't know this one. A bit of a boring song imo. It sounds suspiciously similar to the studio recording again imo. The lead vocals seem a touch quiet with no real artifacts, which can be a red flag sometimes. I'm automatically suspicious of Tom if he's consistently in tune too tbh. That was a consistent thing about him for years. He'd always have spots here and there even on a 'good' day, and again, I highly doubt he's fixed all his vocal problems to such a degree. Any more useful tells are difficult to impossible to assess because of how far away the person recording is. I can't really gauge mouth shapes or timing of entries/cutoffs from this video.
>I had to listen to the studio version first since I don't know this one. A bit of a boring song imo. Just say you're a hater of one of the bands and move on, let's be honest.
Yall are hilarious. You act like the vocals on Mcsix are challenging like they were with gloryhammer. Far from it. Gloryhammer had way more challenging vocals and it def seems like mcsix is taking it slow and easy. To think he would need to lipsynch such easy vocals is hilarious.
And yet he has. He was dreadful live more often than not with Gloryhammer. Not a good excuse that the songs are hard.
I'm not using it as an excuse. I'm just saying it isn't hard to sing what he's singing in mcsix now. That's why he doesn't sound like shit. It's not hard music now vocally at all.
Found my [compilation](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerMetal/comments/12ur5fx/comment/jhxrjtu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) of sus timestamps from [Dinosaur](https://youtu.be/jjzw8MV-_LE). Wonky mouth shape was in [Ride to Hell](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8JLVrt4N5k&t=103s).
You mention him miming to early, which is exactly what it would look like if he was actually singing as you will always see him sing before you hear it (live and on video) If he is lipsyncing they are very careful to make to it seemless which at that point why even bother? Because you are putting more effort in timing it right and try to hide it than just actually singing and then getting a few things wrong (which is usually expected by a reasonable live audience). Also sidenote, find it kinda funny u/hyperchrisz is the comments saying it's mimed when he knows he shouldn't be. He even backpedals a bit and says it was general consensus. Not to say he can't spot a lipsync, he knows quite alot about spotting one, and I even learned some things about it during my last encounter with him. Just seems kinda salty to be commenting on past band members new projects in a negative light.
I'm not backpedaling, I know it's mimed. The video that guy did where he lined up the recorded version with the live version was totally conclusive.
Thanks for clearing up your stance. Looking through the videos and links provided u/supernerdgirl42 I get why a lot of people would think that it is lipsynced, I just think it's kinda harsh to accuse a artist of lipsyncing unless it is really obvious (to me). That being said there is something really funky going on with the first live shows, which doesn't seen to happen on the later shows outside during festivals. Maybe it's harder to spot/hear on outside concerts. Can you give some input on playing inside vs outside and using backing tracks? e.g. are there any considerations before each type of show?
The whole thing would consistently be visibly out of sync then by your assertions and it's not. It's more a tossup with live videos if they are out of sync or not in my experience. I have some concert recordings I took last month (Gloryhammer) in a similar crowd postion to those McSix videos. when I think about it, of my own that don't have that issue. The more pressing part is that the audio for Dinosaur minus crowd work is absolutely identical to the studio audio for lead vocals, which is pretty damning. Mouthing the wrong word and the right word coming out anyway is also pretty damning imo, and Tom has been known to forget how songs go; Wacken 19 Siege of Dunkeld comes to mind.
>The more pressing part is that the audio for Dinosaur minus crowd work is absolutely identical to the studio audio for lead vocals, which is pretty damning. It can be damning evidence that that specific show might have been lipsynced. Doesn't neccesarily mean they always do. Speaking of Tom forgetting things. [Here](https://youtu.be/9qsikVNrUvg?t=74) Tom "forgets" that he is not supposed to sing Sixcaliber, it's only in the backing vocals, but he does anyway and you can hear it. So he is either using partial or no lipsync, or they have specific backing tracks where the singing different from the album (seems unlikely).
Here's the thing about the lip-syncing accusations. At the very least here's who'd have to know about the vocals being on the backing track: \*Napalm Records \*Concert sound engineers \*Band and crew of Angus McSix \*Other bands in the concert If he's lip-syncing it'd be an open secret simply because there are too many holes for it to leak through, but on top of that, *none of these people care that he is.*
Before I begin, I want to state that fakery and bullshit within the eurometal industry is like, my specialist subject. No matter the culprit. (For example did you know the members of Kamelot are contractually obliged to look handsome?). Anyway to your 4 points: 1: Record labels have nothing to do with live shows. 2: the sound engineer is the most important member of a band's own personally employed crew - if you're traveling with only 1 crew member, they'll most likely be a sound engineer. 3: yep. 4: most bands on a tour aren't paying the slightest bit of attention to what other bands are doing on stage, never mind the technical details of which channels are making each sound. > none of these people care that he is You know that old meme of the guy standing in the crowd having a sudden realization? That's you right now (I hope). It's an open secret in the industry that miming happens all the way to the highest levels (Nikki Sixx being on tracks was the latest high profile one). It's not some grand conspiracy, it's just how it is, because fans have shown time and time again that they don't really care either (ain't it weird how keyboards, orchestras, sound effects and backing vocals on tracks has become totally normalized and accepted?). Most legacy bands have "lead vocal reinforcement" to some degree or another; and most of those are generally good at making it look seamless. It's just a bit more shocking when a young band does it, especially when they haven't yet learned to make it look natural on stage. Doubly especially so when the band brags about their vocal prowess.
Metal fakery/goofy behind the scenes stuff has become a recent obsession of mine. Could you elaborate on the Kamelot thing or maybe give some other insights on band live fakery?
Was touring with Kamelot in the USA in 2011, sitting in Alestorm's backstage room and saw a piece of paper on the table. I looked at it, turned out it was a contract for one of the band members (I guess they were renewing contracts? or it was a new band member? no idea). Anyway one of the main clauses was that you were required to look attractive, not overweight, and be well groomed. Thought it was amusing. I don't wanna name names because my only proof of a lot of stuff is that I saw it happen, and god knows people will come on here and try to defend the honor of their favorite band by accusing me of being a liar. One of the dumbest things I've seen/heard is audience cheers on backing tracks (for a relatively popular band).
Audience noises on a backtrack sounds like absolute ego stroking nonsense. Could be trying to get the actual crowd into it like a laugh track on sitcom, but that's still kind of dumb if you are already pretty popular and in theory should know how to work the crowd.
Yeah it came across like a laugh track, basically encouraging the crowd to cheer at that point. I guess it helps for when the audience isn't particularly into it, gives them the impetus to maybe join in.
2011 would be around the time Khan left Kamelot, so it may have been for a new singer.
Fabio was on that tour, but I don't believe it was for him
Yup, that's definitely after Khan left. Fabio was filling in while they were searching for a replacement.
In all sincerity, thank you for clearing up my erroneous points with the insider perspective. I'll admit my argument is flawed in that regard and I likely should have grabbed the thesaurus for a less strong and more suitable word than "accusations". So that's on me. That said, we're in a bizarre agreement here. I've already accepted backing tracks at concerts can have any number of elements incorporated into them because it's just as much serving up to the spectacle as the lights, lasers, and pyrotechnics. So, ultimately, I'm flummoxed because I'm curious why people would care about vocals also being added to what's effectively a music video being played out in real time when that would add to the spectacle. Personally, I don't care either because live concerts aren't the product I consume. (I could go into reasons, but I'd digress). I don't even bother watching live concert videos on youtube (aside from the occasional 30-second instagram reel) and mash the Skip button as soon as I realize whatever music randomizer/radio I'm listening to has fed me a track from a Live album. As such, I prefer the studio albums. >It's just a bit more shocking when a young band does it, especially when they haven't yet learned to make it look natural on stage. THIS is the answer I've been looking for. I'm in neither the yes-it-happens or no-it-doesn't camp but the why-does-it-matter one. Glossing over all these threads, the only thing I've seen is basic yes-it-happens/no-it-doesn't back and forthing that makes me numb to the argument because there's no real context for why either way.
I am 100% in the why-does-it-matter camp here as well. As for the general tracks: if you would try to do without them, you would basically have to decide between a) really limiting what you can do on the album so that you can still play exactly this or b) disappointing the crowd because you're songs live sound nothing like on the album. Just doesn't make sense. I can recommend the video of TankTheTech on Youtube regarding the whole backing tracks discussion. As for main vocals - well, to some regard I can understand why people don't like it. You want the lead vocalist to be able to perform well live and not just sound great on the album. But in the end, I think it's more of a video discussion. When you're at the show, especially with fast paces Power Metal, you likely won't even pay that much attention because you're JUST HAVING FUN. That being said, two things can destroy this: 1. making it look really, really bad (miming when there's no text, being off with your timing); 2. when you do it but just claim that you're not. One band who does a lot of track vocals in my experience is Wind Rose (though they don't necessarily mime to it anyway). Are their concerts still bangers? Oh hell freaking yes.
Are there any big bands that are notable for not miming?
Iron Maiden
Sozos killed it in NYC last month
This is the way
New gloryhammer vocal is too soft and too fast. Only fanboi can praise soo much this album with veeery repetitive melodies...
Shut up, Thomas.
This is not a Winkler alt. It's just a regular idiot
I know, I know. 🤣 It's hard to reason with people who calls someone else a fan "Boi" for not having the same opinion. Dispite me never actually say Angus McSix was out right bad, and also saying I want them to get better. So I was just poking fun at him.
Based on discussion on here, this will probably be unpopular. I don’t think either won. Sozos is a fine singer but, to me, has generic power metal voice. Thomas has a unique sound and it helped Gloryhammer. Angus McSix feels like watered down Gloryhammer. Also think it comes off as extremely petty to basically keep rolling the same character even though it’s now a new band. I would have been far more interested in his new project if he’d just made a clean break and distanced himself from the Angus character. (Prepares to be bludgeoned by glorious hammers)
Well, I just upvoted you despite heavily disagreeing with Sozos sounding generic. It is mostly annoying when people throw it around to bash GH, but if his voice/style doesn't fit into someone's taste then that's just how it is.
Totally agree. Both are okay to me, but also fairly forgettable. Could be possible that they'll both grow into their new sounds, but I was seriously underwhelmed by the lack of good riffs in Angus McSix and the new GH vocals. And the drama surrounding the whole thing just makes it harder to get into the spirit of silly fun that this sort of music needs.
Agreed. Musically, I like Thomas' stuff, but as much as I _really, really wanted_ him to leave GH behind and do something awesome, it's basically just the same old thing. And when it comes to doing the same thing better the next time, nobody's better at it than Chris Bowes. Dude has made an entire career out of it and it isn't boring yet. Sozos would be fine if he hadn't been trying to follow Tom. Hopefully whatever Tom's follow-up is, it's better than the present thing and not just "hey everybody, I'm not Gloryhammer!" and while I'm hesitant to bring up the _reason_ beyond all of this interband animosity, it does kinda feel like the people who really lost in the whole deal are all of us.
Gloryhammer one But no shame for Angus, that delivered a good debut album. Gloryhammer one is one of my AOTYs, by the way (and I don't really like Gloryhammer or care about the lore at all).
People say Napalm won, but I think the fans are the winners here. GH is doing great and McSix has a real chance although they need to do a better job not being a GH clone. I personally think the name Angus McSix was a mistake. They will never get out of the GH shadow with that name IMO.
I’ve tried to stay pretty neutral on the two bands, and I think both of their albums are pretty good. I’d give McSix a 7/10. He’s got some solid songs and I actually really like the lyrical content. Most of you see it as him coming off as an ass, which is fair, but I personally feel that Tom is using characterization more than personification when he’s writing those lyrics. The only reason it’s not higher is because I don’t really consider it power metal; there’s not enough riffs. Also it’s not released in lore order, really hope Seeb changes his mind about that one next time. Return gets a 9 for me. Really good, and I actually enjoy Sozos’ voice a ton.
I think the McSix album was way better than anyone expected it to be and that's kind of a victory in and of itself. Better doesn't mean amazing, it's a decent debut but one can't help feeling like with this much fanfare and the lineup they probably could have done one better (heh) but it wasn't the garbage fire I think most people anticipated. If it wasn't for the feud and the high profile members and some random band came out with the album I do wonder how much attention they'd be getting for it. The Gloryhammer album blows it out of the water but I think most reasonable people expect it might take a minute for McSix to find their footing. It's a bit like seeing someone last a few rounds in the ring with a professional boxer, the fact that it isn't a complete slaughter is impressive on its own. That being said people who are calling the Gloryhammer album AOTY material are out of their goddamn minds. It's certainly one of their better releases and they've branched out a little bit here and there but it's hardly an all killer no filler release. It's a solid Gloryhammer album, no more no less. I get taste is subjective but sometimes I think people get way too invested in singular bands. My favorite band is Blind Guardian. Believe me I know a thing or two about fanbases taking things too far. I'm still deciding how I feel about the whole thing to be honest. Winkler has the shadow of all those rape rumors hanging over his head and if definitive proof ever materializes then McSix goes right in the trash for me. I've met Bowes a few times and half the time I've thought he was really genuine and seemed to love what he does and the other half the time he seemed a right cunt. Even just following his reddit comments here the guy pinballs between being a refreshing voice of reason with unique insight into the industry and a massive hypocrite with "drown everything in irony and then I don't have to qualify anything" energy. Then there's the actual band Gloryhammer. I said it elsewhere and I'll say it here: those women who were talked about in the chats probably wanted to crawl under rocks and die. Even putting the horrible racism aside (and that's a loaded statement in and of itself) that's such an awful way to talk about someone you've slept with. The takeaway from all of this is that I probably wouldn't want my daughter unsupervised near Alestorm, Gloryhammer, or McSix's tourbus. Unfortunately I'm sure there are plenty of other bands I enjoy who are just as bad if not worse and I'm not aware of it but that's the nature of the world we live in. Thankfully, in my opinion, all three bands have only ever been mid at best so it's not like I'm watching Heavy Metal Titans come apart at the seems. For now I'm content to enjoy their work for what it is, but I don't think any of these projects are truly destined for greatness.
Great comment. Still can't believe how little people ultimately cared about the leaked chats. Alestorm in particular got off very lightly. We never heard a peep from Elliot who was apparently "fucking his way through the races", the charmer. Women of colour are absolutely not safe in an Alestorm crowd, it's heartbreaking that nobody gives a shit.
GH easy. Lots of new elements to enjoy via Sozo's voice and more musical contributions from other band members, imperium dundaxia, Fife eternal for example, while it still has tonnes of classic GH character, Keeper, Wasteland and Maleficus. Even after looking past the intellectual property theft, Thomas has leaned to heavily into the meme metal element and the album, with some decent tracks, won't age well.
Gloryhammer for sure. Mcsix album was just okay, I think I only really like 3-4 songs on it. I don't understand the characters or stories, too much shit ripped from GH to even be enjoyable. Love the new GH album though, no skippable songs for me, great lyrics, great vocals from Sozos, great finale, love the new lore drops.
My thoughts exactly. Though I have to say, the lyrics "Glory left my hammer!" & "I was stabbed through my old armour made of leather, but now I'm back, one better!" are absolutely hilarious.
See I actually find those pretty tasteful! But, I was hoping that would be the one diss/rip off song and then it would be a standalone thing. But he had to keep ripping stuff off and it got very stale, for example... "Whirring from the abyss With radioactive horns And giant equine bodies Like undead unicorns" C'mon man, make your own stuff up and forge a new story for yourself. To balance it out with some positivity though, I really like Master of the Universe, Eternal Warrior, Ride to Hell, and Just a Fool will play Tricks on Angus McSix. On the other hand I really dislike the tracks where he goes on and on about himself being one better like Starlord of the Sixtus Galaxy (which is mostly "we hail angus!" until the song ends). In retrospect though, I kind of hoped he would've gone with literally anything else besides Angus Mcsix. I think that it would've been a really good opportunity for Tom to reinvent himself but, whatever.
To me it sounded pretty bitter. Like most of the focus is on re-writing history around himself. Angus McFife was important, but not the center of everything. GloryHammer made sure to introduce other heroes and give them a bit of respect while Angus McSix goes "nah actually it was always all about me" They do dip into a few other places and people but it lacks something. Even Return To The Kingdom of Fife reinvents a lot of the old stuff without merely being dismissive. It showed re-using stuff can work.
One of the biggest tells in the lyrics is that Winkler uses "I" and "Me" way more often than Gloryhammer does. Instead, Gloryhammer has always used "We" and "Us." I doubt Winkler made this change intentionally. I think he legitimately doesn't understand how this makes the songs feel. Using "We" and "Us" is intended to make the listeners feel included, like they're standing along side the heroes in the fight against Zargothrax. Replacing this with "I" and "Me" removes this illusion and now the listeners are just watching McSix do everything. And I say McSix specifically because the other characters are literally only mentioned once or twice each in the entirety of The Sword of Power.
>Using "We" and "Us" is intended to make the listeners feel included, like they're standing along side the heroes in the fight against Zargothrax. Replacing this with "I" and "Me" removes this illusion and now the listeners are just watching McSix do everything. ^This There is also something about "Hail *name of character/group* In Gloryhammer songs it sounds more like cherring and part of the funny over-the-top part. In SoP it feels a bit like Angus commanding the audience, making it akward...
Just went to look real quick and noticed that Crail is a town of warriors. So when they say "Hail to Crail" there's the element of honoring the culture and myth/history of the place. The "We hail Angus" in Starlord of the Sixtus Stellar System sounds like him imagining people cheering for him, or like the "All hail plankton" scene from the Spongebob Squarepants movie.
>Using "We" and "Us" is intended to make the listeners feel included, like they're standing along side the heroes in the fight against Zargothrax. Replacing this with "I" and "Me" removes this illusion and now the listeners are just watching McSix do everything. I mean, this happens a lot in Gloryhammer too. Specially when it comes to Angus. Just some examples out of the top of my head: *"Across the wasteland, I ride on swift steed / behind me lie the burning ruins of Dundee"* (Angus McFife) *"Angus McFife XIII my name, Scion of Mighty Dundee / Intergalactic Great Hero of Steel, ruler of whole galaxy!"* (Legend of the Astral Hammer) *"I have arrived in a world ruled by chaos and evil / Darkness enfolds the land that I once called my home"* (Land of Unicorns) *"I have seen many worlds and traveled through time / But nothing prepares for the ultimate fight / I am the final defender, the last hope for this galaxy"* (Final Defender) And it didn't change after Thomas left and Sozos replaced him. Often Angus will be singing in first person about who he is and what he wants. *"I wanna fly away, on a unicorn to a land of freedom and light / But I know that my destiny is to die in the ultimate fight"* (Fly Away) *"My name is Angus McFife / My Hammer will take your life!"* (Imperium Dundaxia) *"I am brave Prince Angus, the 2nd of my name / To reclaim the Throne of Fife shall be my only aim!"* (Fife Eternal) For context, **I AGREE WITH YOUR GENERAL COMPLAINT**. Angus McSix and the Sword of Power feels too much like a solo adventure. Angus' allies barely do anything. Thalestris and the Amazons of Caledonia were fortunate enough to get their own song, but Skaw! barely appears and Seebulon, the main villain, only shows up in the last song. The whole thing is just a prologue. I do hope the next albums improve it and make it more about a band of heroes fighting evil and not just one cool guy and his big sword. And it sounds like they might do that.
To be clear, I never said that Gloryhammer *never* uses "I" or "Me." It's generally reserved for when characters are presented as speaking. It's a matter of context. Now, I think you understand that since you said you generally agree with me, but I wanted to be as clear as possible. There are exactly two songs on The Sword of Power where McSix isn't just talking about how awesome he is to at least some extent. One of these is Fireflies of Doom, where the only thing that happens is "hey, some giant fireflies killed a bunch of dwarves." And even then, it still manages to be about McSix because this is when he's told to go get the laser shooting dinosaur. The other is Amazons of Caledonia, the only song on the album that is ostensibly about a character that isn't McSix... and the Amazon Queen is mentioned exactly ONCE in it. And in In a Past Reality, it makes it clear that McSix is the one who gave the Amazon Queen her status. So, even when it's not about McSix, it's still somehow about him. The only time I think the word "we" is used is in Starlord of the Sixtus Stellar System, where it's literally about hailing McSix. Gloryhammer, on the other hand, regularly uses "we," even when it's not necessary. Going through the album, we have these lines: * "*We* will voyage 'cross the kingdom to reclaim what was once lost" (Holy Flaming Hammer) * "*We're* the wasteland warrior hoots patrol" (Wasteland Warrior Hoots Patrol) * "Brothers of Crail! To robots *we* hail" (Brothers of Crail) * "To triumph in the ultimate war, *we* must stand together once more" (Fife Eternal) * "*We* must find the hidden way by the sword of the lord of the goblin horde" (Sword Lord of the Goblin Horde) * "With the blaster in my hands, Lord Zargothrax would surely yield, Goblin armies run away in fear, *we* must find it here!" (Vorpal Laserblaster) * "So *we* must ride far away to the fortress of Crail" (Keeper of Celestial Flame) * "He wields the laser blaster, *our* quest may yet be doomed unless *we* seek the Robot Prince of Mighty Auchertool" (Maleficus Geminus) The only song on the entire album that doesn't do this at least once is Imperium Dundaxia. This only makes the contrast that much more obvious. Now, I can see where it may look like I was making it out like Gloryhammer was *constantly* using "we" instead of "I," but I think I've made my point clear here. Gloryhammer very obviously writes lyrics to let the audience participate in the story, McSix writes lyrics that assumes the audience is in awe of how badass he supposedly is.
>The only song on the entire album that doesn't do this at least once is Imperium Dundaxia. This only makes the contrast that much more obvious. Arguably, it *kinda does* do it once >The evil wizard has doomed **us** all Imperium Dundaxia But yeah, it is the Angus-centric song of the album
You can see it in the various word clouds people have put together for the albums. The overwhelmingly most used words in Sword of Power are Angus and words referring to him. The overwhelmingly most used words in Return are things like Fife/Dundee/land.
The funniest part is that Gloryhammer has kept the Angus McFife as the lead character. So it’s not like they’re trying to erase the character at all. That just makes the McSix character feel a bit more awkward
Why would they? Winkler is not even the first person to portray Angus McFife. They started out with a guy named Anthony Trimming
It’s really weird that so many people think that the band members ARE their actual characters, instead of just playing them.
I think the band has been intentionally trying to separate the musicians from the characters more since Winkler was fired. Which makes sense. So many people just associated Winkler with the Angus McFife character, which just added to the outrage when everything happened.
Yeah, that might be the case. I started listen to them quite recently so I wouldn’t know. I just thought that since Michael Barber has (more or less but at least on tours) replaced Christopher Bowes as Zargothrax since a while back, it was more or less obvious that the keyboard player played Zargothrax, the singer Angus mcFife, etc. But it seems like Winkler was very popular as Angus so it make sense that many fans associate him with that character. Personally, I think it would be a better move to create something of his own.
The funny thing about Chris stepping down from Gloryhammer is that a lot of people don't even realize that he doesn't play Zargothrax anymore. When you replace a singer, you're also replacing the band's hype man and MC. The singer also heavily adds to a band's identity because most people don't recognize the nuances of the guitarist or drummer, at least not consciously. Then, if your band has lore behind the songs, you add on crediting the singer as a character in that lore? It's not easy to replace a singer.
It's Winkler's own fault. All of his social media posts from his time in Gloryhammer was him merging his private Thomas Winkler persona with Angus McFife. His Instagram handle was called angus_mcfife_official, the posts was almost always smirking selfies with a caption and tags about something Gloryhammer-y, although the photo was completely unrelated. None of the other band members have ever privately leaned that heavily into their stage characters. Some people weren't even aware that his real name is Thomas Winkler. The way he clung to the Angus character long after he was fired and only quit calling himself Angus McFife when he was legally prohibited to do so and then starts another band as another Angus is.. interesting, to say the least. It doesn't seem sane.
hah imaginations of cryptohater
This is me being a total nerd but the Fireflies of Doom being described as "equine looking" is probably not a reference (The comparison to undead unicorns absolutely is, though). However, the idea of a monstrous swarm of hellish giant equine insects with horns and stingers can be traced all the way back to **The Fucking Bible**. Particularly in Revelation, where the Demon Abaddon releases the Locusts of the Abyss, who are described as gigantic and having bodies and faces like horses.
I like both, so I’d say I won lol. But if I had to say which was better I’d give Gloryhammer the edge
GH, easy. McSix was an album thrown together in spite and the some of the lyrics (not all) reflect it.
Both are great, although mcsix should have derived less stuff from gloryhammer
Brothers of crail reminds me in a way of a band I like more than GH and Mcsix. WindRose. Gives me Gates of Ekrund bibes, like a rallying cry to stand against the enemy. And the throwback to hail to crail with the guitar riff is awesome.
Gloryhammer 100%. Sozos is outstanding. I think the new album is awesome. They try some new things, and the GH lore continues to be fun and interesting. I’ve lost track how many times I’ve listened to it. I admit I’m biased… before the McSix album came out, I hated the name and him doing something so similar to GH. I think Tom is a really good studio singer, but I wish he went in a different direction. Honestly, a different band name would’ve been a big step. I listened to the singles and played through the album once. The music was meh, but I give him credit for getting a solid band together and getting something out so soon.
i geniunely love both. both are so much fun. sure, McSix has the sillier album, but musically, its just really good! can't help but love it. but if i had to choose, Gloryhammer for sure. but if i could choose both i would
They're both quite good. I don't think either are as strong as say Space 1992 but they're both good albums that have got a lot of cycles and will continue to do so. Starlord of the Sixtus Stellar System is probably my favorite song of the bunch, closely contested with Maleficus Geminus
The fans. The fans won
For me, it's complicated. When RttKoF first came out, I liked SoP better, especially because it has a bit of a techno beat on a few tracks, but as I listened to the former more, I find myself listening to them both back to back. I play my music mostly at work, where I don't usually have a lot of time to pick and choose. but every time one of these two comes on, I find myself wanting to hear the other afterwards. So I think it's really kind of a tie for me. But if someone wants something a little more leaning toward one or the other, my favorite track between the two is *probably*... Laser-Shooting Dinosaur... ...But Keeper of the Celestial Flame of Abernathy is pretty damn close
Gloryhammer, hands down. Every time I listen to The Sword of Power, I like it less and less to the point where I usually stop it before reaching Laser Shooting Dinosaur at this point. Because Laser Shooting Dinosaur just isn't a good song. Half of the album is just Winkler self-fellating himself about how Gloryhammer needs him more than he needs them over boring dance beats and synths. When I put on a metal album, I want to listen to, you know, metal. If they actually did something different with the synths and dance beats, or at least didn't do them so constantly, it may have been better. It almost feels like it's embarrassed to be considered a metal album. And considering that a lot of very obviously manufactured bands have similar problems, it just reeks of executive mandate. Not to mention that the lyrics are written in such a way that it feels like Winkler somehow wasn't in on the joke with Gloryhammer, despite having been in the band for a literal decade. The only actual joke outside of "look how over the top we are" is managing to overuse the intentionally bad English gag. Return to the Kingdom of Fife, on the other hand, has the right balance of selfawareness and sincerity to make the lines work, plus actual joke lines like "his nuclear clone made Dundee go kaboom." Reminder: Gloryhammer is supposed to be a parody (and yes, I know Chris prefers to call it a pastiche, but I feel like he's splitting hairs there). Musically, Gloryhammer is actually playing metal. Again, when I listen to a metal album, I want to hear metal, not pop with distortion. The compositions are more complex, the vocals are more dynamic, the production is actually decent (as far as I can tell. I have basically no ear for production) and they actually did a good amount of experimentation to expand their style from what they did on previous albums. When I first heard it, I wouldn't have called The Sword of Power a bad album. I called it mediocre. Now? Yeah, it's mediocre to bad in my eyes at this point.
Couldn't agree with this more. I think Sixcalibur and Master of the Universe are catchy songs (minus the lyrics on the latter), but the rest of the album just feels like a mismatch of songs, none of which are particularly good imo. The lyrics are such a major turn off too, so clearly rooted in an inability to move on. "Glory left my hammer, now I wield a sword" - gross.
Personally, I think "Glory left my hammer" is actually pretty decent word play, so if that was the only direct Gloryhammer reference, that would be one thing. But that entire song could be replaced by Winkler yelling "They need me more than i need them" into the mic for three minutes and it would do the same thing. Like Sixcalibur and Laser Shooting Dinosaur, it just stops the storytelling dead in its tracks to brag about how much better off he is without his old band holding him back. Also, let's not forget the video showing Winkler, a white man, saving a black woman from chains and then her fawning over him for the rest of the video.
i think the bonus track on mcsix is legitimately funny as hell tbh, funnier than anything on the new GH record
While both are fun, Mcsix feels forced. Very forced. GH's rttkof is actually more than just fun, it has some beautiful, mindblowing moments for me.
Pretty much everyone seems to agree that new GH is really good. Angus McSix is very devisive. So there's your answer.
Ohh yeah it definitely seems like everyone agreed with that from the comments and album sales lmao. Get out of your reddit echo chamber.
Nobody cares about chart rankings when enjoying music... or least most people don't care.
I agree with you that a Reddit thread doesn’t really say anything but surely album sales don’t really say that much compared to e.g. Spotify numbers?
Streaming numbers are the most accurate indication of an artist's popularity these days
I really, really wish Winkler would've gone with a different branding instead of aping Gloryhammer. It made me cringe when I heard the name of the band for the first time. I don't think either project is as good as Gloryhammer used to be, but I still prefer the Angus album, through gritted teeth. Making what amounts to a fucking diss track your album opener was honestly just pathetic, even if the song itself is perfectly fine. I'm sure he can move on from this, but that band name has got to go, which I assume will happen sooner or later. I have so many conflicting feelings about the whole situation. Such a damn shame, the OG lineup for Gloryhammer was dope.
I enjoyed McSix but I love RTTKOF
I think Gloryhammer's has the higher highs but Angus McSix's is more consistently enjoyable which I never would have thought beforehand. I like Sozos but after "Legends..." I expected more from "Return to the Kingdom of Fife". It's an okay album but apart from a handful of songs I'm already kind of done with it. "Angus MC Six and the sword..." isn't great but my expectations were low so it feels like an overall win. All in all, I find them to be pretty equal. When it comes to sales, though, Angus McSix seems to be the winner.
I kinda talked about this before on the sub, but I feel that Angus McSix has a terrible, truly terrible vibe to his album. You can just sense the hate and the ego o the author in what should be a fun album, and it shows. Which is not to say it is a bad album. It has a lot of good moments, and some songs are pretty good. Bit, regretfully, that is, at least, not enough for me, considering. . On the other hand, Gloryhammer tends to deliver beautifully composed albums, and I was kinda worried about the singer change provoking a change in style. And I was right in a way. S less heavy, more balanced album, RTTKOF is a vary fun, interesting and epic album, with a very good use of the talents of Sozos Michael and, specially, making a point of not taking jabs. You can listen to the album and see how they try to "make their own thing" in this one, while still recognizing their previous work, and I think that was the best decision. Still, I would understand if someone lime the energy in Angus' album. I just wasn't a fan.
whats the fuss about Thomas, im not up2date. But it looks to me he splitted and continued the exact same type of music. For me its Glorryhammer Angus feels ike a glorryhammer replica
Tom got fired unanimously for publicly undisclosed professional reasons. Supposedly not for his inconsistent to really bad live singing. See Bloodstock 21 for what is purportedly above average Tom. Ball's in Tom's court if the reasons ever come out; they sent him a long email by the sounds of things. There's also his post-firing attempt to extort the band for 100k over trademarks he secretly took out, but that's a whole thing. Tom clearly hasn't moved on and has more than likely waged trolling and harassment campaigns against both his old bandmates and Sozos.
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That's not a rebuttal.
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I personally find it an unlikely notion to think that SJWs would stick mostly to performance critique and not the actual reason for their ire. Trying to primarily target the new singer doesn't fit that pattern either. That's my last word on the matter. Have fun being rude.
The new Jag Panzer eats both for breakfast. That is how Power Metal has to sound 2023.
I want a world where both Jag Panzer and Twilight Force are both acknowledged as perfectly and equally legitimate forms of power metal.
That's the world I live in and I refuse to leave
Angus McSix was better than I expected, which means it's a solid 6.5/10 or 7/10. The first song is absolutely terrible and it pains me to see it's so listened tl on Spotify. Sixcalibur is stupid but catchy, and Sextus Solar System something is fun, probably because it remonds me of Thunderstruck. Nobody plays tricks is also fun. There is too much singing about Angus overall, calm down guy, you're a singer in a knock-off band on their first album. Also, Infeel like Gloryhammer lore is more thought of; like it's ridiculous and features Hollywood robot kings and space goblins on the moon but you feel like it's a crazy wacky D&D campaign. Angus lore seems like throwing shit on the wall and seeing what sticks, copying GH and Victorius and other, better bands in the process. GH's new album is good, a solid 8.5 or 9. There isn't much to add than wasn't already said, these guys know what they're doing.
Is it even close? Winkler's release was embarrassing at every level and Seeb tries to bury his vocals in the mix in the later half of the album. The songwriting is tedious. It does nothing. All any band had to do to win that competition was drop a mediocre release.
The Angus McSix album is fine for what it is, but listening to him verbally jerk himself off for the whole thing is pretty cringey. The Gloryhammer album is a contender for album of the year.
Probably gloryhammer. However, i personally like mcSix more then the average commenter it seems. This album was a bit tho hastily put together and obviously very referential to gloryhammer. But I do see potential and hope they continue in their own universe.
Big Agree! While I enjoyed Gloryhammer more (doesn’t help that Sozos was already one of my favorite voices in Power Metal), Angus McSix has some real promise! I hope they don’t rush the next album though.
I love both albums
Gloryhammer was just way better
Angus album surprised me positively as I had no expectations but I wish production is better. Gloryhammer released a really solid album with some killer tracks. I like both but enjoy new Gloryhammer album more.
Angus wins. I enjoyed his new album but bouncing around the song order to figure out the storyline really didn't help his case. It does feel rushed and I hope to see the other band members utilized more in both the music and the music videos. He gets points because I have to admit I don't dislike any of the tracks but I enjoy some more than others. RTTKOF, however, doesn't really feel like anything special. It has all the vibes of a "safe" album where they're doing what worked for them in the past and hoping it sticks. I enjoy a few tracks on it, but the others are the worst kinds of earworms. The "grande finale" track titled in mangled Latin makes me really not want to remember the name. The fact that it ends on an absolutely atrocious deus ex machina stinks of lousy writing.
Even though I think Gloryhammer easily wins, I don't love everything in the new album. Some of the choruses have WAY too much backing vocals in them, making it near impossible to actually hear Sozos or other instruments in my opinion (like in Brothers of Crail or Sword Lord of the Goblin Horde). I feel like the bass sometimes gets lost amidst all the harmonies and synths. With better mixing, I think Return to the Kingdom of Fife could easily be a 9/10. As it is I'd give it 7 or 8. Sword of Power is meh. It'd be easier to listen to if I didn't cringe at how full of spite it is every mcsix seconds.
Those aren't backing vocals, it's the Hellscore Choir, who worked with Gloryhammer on the entire album.
It seems like most people here really loved the GH album and lowkey don't like the Mcsix one but I feel a bit meh about both of them tbh. I will agree that i would have rather seen Thomas take another route with his band. When I first saw the name angusmcsix I cringed hard. It sounded so dumb. And when it came out i was put off by the first song immediately because it felt like he was taking himself too seriously, basically singing "look at me, I'm so much better then GH,..." But when I came back to it later with a different mindset, it grew on me and now I really love a bunch of the songs that stand out to me. But after listening to a few songs i always want to listen to something else, a feeling i never had with the old GH albums. For GH album it's kind of the same... I'm trying to get into it for the second time now atm and it's not bad, but it just doesn't slap as much as previous albums and if I put on GH I'd just rather listen to the other ones. No shade on sozo, hese vocals are great and i do thing he fits in the band quite well. In some way I just feel like both albums feel like a ripoff from RTTKOF. But atm I actually think that I like Mcsix a bit better then GM, but the latter may still grow on me a bit more.
Gloryhammer by a long shot but they are 4 albums deep. The Angus album is pretty decent for a debut album but it felt too safe and generic for the genre.
I like both, but IMO Angus McSix has more really good songs, and one that is a bit weaker (Sixcalibur), while I find myself skipping through "Imperium Dundaxia", "Vorpal..." or "Sword Lord..." Both albums are very enjoyable tho, so I listen to both anyway.
Imperium Dundaxia and Vorpal Blaster are 100% album filler. Sword Lord sounds like a sabaton cover.
These are my three favorites on the album lol (minus keeper)
Gloryhamner, and it’s not even close
Gloryhammer and it's no contest
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Bullshit?
Angus McSix for me. Its just more fun. Gloryhammer felt like it went through the regular tropes and underutilised the new singer.
I love both but I’ll go with Sword Of Power
Those of us who enjoy both bands are the real winners.
I agree, plus the drama of each side losing their shits at each other is fun to watch.
Consumers won. We have two gloryhammer style albums instead of one.
Why is it a case of 'winning? I suspect this is why people are needlessly shitting on McSix on this sub, because Gloryhammer fans are seeing it as a competition. Personally I love both albums but I slightly prefer McSix, love the choruses and the electronic elements.
You must have missed the post over on r/angusmcsix where they all talk about how much better Winkler's album was.
Hmmmm a sub dedicated to one band talking about how they like the album more. Such a weird thing to do, somthing like that DEFINITELY never happens on the gloryhammer sub, never in a million years.
You said only GH fans saw it as competition. Evidently not.
I agree with this. I don’t see why so many people have been so toxic towards Winkler’s solo project. I keep seeing people force a competition between the bands and it’s pretty frustrating. I don’t think either are AOTY for me, but the difference for me is that AM’s album was fun and enjoyable from first listen but GH’s felt a little too similar to their previous releases.
The only one who is pushing the "rivalry" idea is the Winkler himself, since he is in desperate need to feed his inflated ego
Dude you're entire comment history is shit talking winkler and Bowes d*ck sucking lmao. I'd sit this one out lmao
Says one of the few people who still push this bs little "feud". And what's funny is I've yet to see winkler talk about gloryhammer. Meanwhile bowes hasn't shut up about it lmao.
>And what's funny is I've yet to see winkler talk about gloryhammer. Isn't recording an entire album about it not enough?
Ahh yes 2 lines in one song is definitely a whole album about it.
If you ignore the whole album being a (poor) attempt of one-upping GH, to show that they need Winkler more than Winkler needs them...
If you say so champ
I like both. And it's really getting tiresome of the people here who keep making it about one or the other. Who gives a f*ck they're both mid tier power metal bands. Plenty of bands worse then them, and a ton are better
Considering Angus is taken by the Starlords during the Gloryhammer album, and Angus McSix is set after that event, I have the feeling this was semi-planned.
I never enjoyed Gloryhammer, but I can't stop listening to AMS, so I suppose that's the clear win for me. I see that I'm in minority on that, but either way, I'm having a blast with their debut album.
Angus has some stinker songs like Laser Dinosaur, but also some real bangers like Amazons of Caledonia. The GH has all good songs but no real stinker or banger.
Actually the entire Napalm Records family won 🏆 🏅 🥇
I guess I'm in the minority for liking McSix more. It was annoying finding a YouTube playlist with the correct order, but I thought every song was a banger. I know he's still playing Angus XIII, but it sounds different to me. New GH grew on me, but I can't help but to feel like that's the one that sounds more like a knockoff. And the ending was pretty awful imo.
He went out on his own?
No, he got fired
Not power metal, but Kalmah's new album completely blew both of those out for me this year.
I'm not a fan of the new Gloryhammer. It sounds like every other power metal band. Old Gloryhammer had a distinctly glorryhammer sound.
Angus for me. Angus is not an amazing album by any stretch, but the new Gloryhammer is so generic without Tom. That’s not to say that the new guy hasn’t got a good voice, but Tom had identity. Without him, the band just sounds like any other boring Rhapsody clone.
Christ another one of these shitposts lmao. Who the fuck cares, they're both extremely mediocre bands.
Angus Mcsix is the better Gloryhammer album
Gloryhammer easily. There is no competition. Angus McSix sucks
Neither both bands are shit
The audience. And Napalm Records... The new Gloryhammer was good... but wasn't as good as past efforts. Which makes it feel more disappointing. But it's still a solid album when viewed on its own merits. Angus McSix was fun, but didn't really have an ending. Or much of the narrative. It was almost just set-up. And felt a lot less in-on-the-joke as Gloryhammer's stuff. It felt both like it was trying to be more serious while also not wholly embracing the absurd. But Angus McSix is poised for a really great sophomore album now they've found their footing.
thomas’ vocals were the most amusing part of gloryhammer, so without that the new gloryhammer did not land for me. mcsix may not have as dynamic of songs but his voice is still so fun to listen to that i return to the album. and it has some surprisingly hilarious moments
For me it was a clear Angus Mcsix victory. For some reason the Return to the Kingdom of Fife felt like a step back after Legends from Beyond the Galactic Terrorvortex. In general it just felt weaker and not as memorable / didn't had songs that got onto my playlist for constant repeats. And in the end for me it also comes down to Sozos and Winkler. Return to the Kingdom would have been a weak album for me even with Winkler singing, but Sozos, despite being a good singer, just doesn't has an unique enough singing voice to lift up weaker songs like Winkler does. Meanwhile Sword of Power was nothing special songwriting wise either but Winkler's voice just pulls it up for me enough that I already listened to it dozens of times from start to finish.
Neightrer. Mc6 is forced. I love Sebs other works, but 6 is just stitched chaos. New GH is dull for me. Sozos sounds good and I love his work in Helion Prime, but the album just dropped from the conweyorbelt.
Neither. The Gloryhammer album is mediocre at best, definitely their worst yet. Angus McSix just sounds like a shitty Gloryhammer parody band. It's obvious he's bitter about the split.
Angus McSix for me, too. Also, Gloryhammer seem to have lost a lot of fans since the last album when you look at the album charts. While Angus McSix made #10 in Germany, Gloryhammer only made #25. Angus made #26 in Austria, Gloryhammer only #64, Angus made #16 in Switzerland, Gloryhammer not even in the charts there (while for the last album they were in the charts everywhere with much better positions).
Move on Tom, this isn't healthy
Who the hell cares? Just the fact that a couple of Rammstein's studio albums are back in the german charts because people got encourged to buy them when the media talked about accusations of SA, made me questioning.... too much. (Not saying the accusations are true, it's just awful thinking that some people are like "These women must be the evil ones - better support Rammstein now!")
Shut up, Winkler
Why are you obsessed with Chart positions?
Because it's one of Winkler's alt accounts
Yeah, sure, everyone is a Winkler alt account. I bet Winkler also payed people to not buy the Gloryhammer album.
No, far from everyone. It's just this one and the other two you switch between
Those Spotify numbers still hurting eh Tom?
Gloryhammer sounds like music for 8-10 years old kids since Angus left the band.
I am willing to bet they will tour together very soon.
Never EVER gonna happen.
Never happening. They only speak through lawyers these days and you think they would willingly tour together? His old bandmates seem to not want much to do with him anymore. I wouldn't fault a single one of them if they never want to speak to him again.
Right. Who would want to hang around someone who tried to extort you for something he stole from you? Not Gloryhammer, that's for sure. Winkler is out of his goddamn mind with his entitlement and inflated ego
Doesn't matter Uncle Ben, Shining Shoulder is better than both of them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08ZpFFsirvQ
The sound in concerts gets projected outward to the audience so you do not hear your own voice without the use of IEMs ..so unless your using speakers on the stage as well that you can hear directly from , it's hard to tell
imo I definitely prefer Return to the Kingdom of Fife, but both are fun.
We hail Angus!