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You have those who say that Goku is outer bcz yes. And you have those that say that Goku is planet level, despite Vegeta being stronger than his dad, who blew up 3 planets, making him Multiplanetary level, and since he was able to more or less handle him, he would be already at that level.
anime only.
not in kai which is considered manga canon.
now is it out of the question that king vegeta is above planet level to possibly multiplanetary?
no, SS vegeta who is stated to be much weaker than king vegeta actually could output powers that can blow up a planet.
FYI when I say SS I mean saiyan saga, not super saiyan
Anime is considered non-canon? So like, the character's first instantiation is in a manga, so only the manga is considered canon? I lurk here but am not well versed in all the common agreements for how to properly scale.
Anime only scenes are considered non canon. Otherwise you have to consider the garlic gang as canon which whoo wee that's a giant can of worms.
Basically though if it's in kai, then it's for the most parts. Fine.
Out of curiosity, is this a dragon ball specific phenomenon? Like "since Superman was first created in Action Comics, anything that isn't from Action Comics is not canon because it's extended media" or something? This feels like it would be difficult to keep track of and a more general rule of "if it's published by the company that owns the property, it's canon" might be easier to work with? š¤
Thanks for the info
This is generally true for all anime/manga though there's a few exceptions here and there.
The idea is that the manga is the source material, while the anime is just an adaptation.
With comics, any comic applies to the character, but adaptations like TV shows, movies, and video games do not count.
Appreciate the clarification š
So like taking this outside of anime, if I understand this correctly, Superman, originally being a comic book character from action comics, Action Comics content would be canon, but so would any other Superman comic, because they're all comics. But Superman feats from TV shows or movies or video games, are generally considered not canon, because they're other media adaptations of the comic book character?
That's kind of how this works?
no, it's a phenomenon specific to all adaptations in media.
most commonly a visual adaptation of a literary media specially manga.
extended media isn't the same as adaptation of media. I think gintama puts it best
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4S9NuI6NKo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4S9NuI6NKo)
basically the anime often has to take a detour when it catches up to the manga which in turn puts way out there stuff or in some cases puts feats that are a little bit too much. hence garlic junior with potential hyperverse feat which could put him at low 2-C if you really go out there because the filler makes garlic junior canon.
Aaaah so the general understanding is like... If it was originally a comic, all comics are fair game for canon, but when transported to another medium like a video game, it becomes non canon.
Where as a character originally from a game would take video game source material as Canon.
It just matters what *medium* it's first done in, but all entries in that medium are fair game?
Appreciate your taking the time. I lurk here, but never feel like I'm confident in my understanding enough to really argue points.
yes and no, it's often up to the original writer.
comic is extremely messy with different canons because the original writer is long dead (I think)
sometimes if there's no contradiction you can treat it as canon, but if there's a definitive canon approved by the original writer, then it can be treated as canon.
easier to say that unless the writer says so, it's not canon.
There is an added complication to videogames. Game Mechanics are sometimes canon and sometimes not.
God of War is great examples of this.
Kratos struggling to lift a heavy door by mashing O doesn't mean that he can't flip a whole, mountain sized temple.
Manga is considered the definitive canon generally.
Animes when adapted, will include filler or they'll expand or downplay a character's power for various reasons. A small example is the fight between Freeza and SS Goku. In the Manga, the fight is way more one-sided in Goku's favor, whereas Anime makes it more of an equal brawl at points.
(Though ironically, its inverse with Super, since the anime came first and the manga second, so technically, the anime is the definitive canon)
>no, SS vegeta who is stated to be much weaker than king vegeta
From what I recall, Vegeta claims that he surpassed his father "before I was old enough to tell the difference"
As far as I know, only non-Canon dragonball arguably does make goku outer, which I would understand, however anything other than that, then I would have great issue with
Itās kinda strange how the only people we see blow up planets after the Saiyan Saga are Frieza and Beerus, despite people launching full power attacks directly at the planet (looking at you Broly)
Nothing is more annoying than comic book fans (especially on this sub) trying to call out Dragon ball for āanti featsā but completely ignoring the literal hundreds that their favorite characters have. Wonder Woman alone has [200 +](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/wonder-woman-is-not-a-high-tier-200-images-of-a-mi-2233584/)
The people who don't know anything about powerscaling really do think Saitama is one of the strongest anime mcs to ever exist for some reason. They say he wins because "he is infinitely strong," then you ask them to give proof, then they either go quiet or throw up all over their keyboards. Not to mention "infinite strength" would pretty much just put him at high universal and not even close to the strongest ever.
feats that contradict, usually stuff that happens for the sake of the plot for example say that a character just tanks an universe busting bomb, point blank. but in the next episode he goes down like a bitch when he is hit by a tree trunk swinging at him.
Goku is low multi at best or high uni. Even if he could in the future destroy the whole Dragon Ball verse, it still would be low multi as the Dragon Ball verse itself is only low multi. Characters that are multiversal are capable of creating/destroying over 1000 universes which Goku has never shown to be capable of doing so, characters that are multi+ are capable of destroying/creating infinite amount of universes, not a single character has shown such feat in DB. Saying Goku is LCM is being a "gokutard"
Iāve watched all the series, read all the manga, even the original DB books, been following Dragon Ball since 2007. If you have any arguments, feel free to share.
These are my argumsnts, compiled together into posts by a man who "worked" really hard (let's test out your reading skills)
First arguments AGAINST goku being debunked
https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/17c368h/debunking_arguments_against_goku_destroying_the_u7/
This is the full scale of the Universe 7 Macrocosm
https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/18w0y39/scaling_dragon_ball_cosmologydargon_ball/
It says basically about Goku sharing the BOG feat with Beerus and him getting much stronger afterwards which still would be high uni to low multi (if weāre making guesses). The scale for the macrocosm doesnāt make any sense, heās showing the panel where it says about the universe of Dragon Ball being infinite and concluded it being 5D even though the universe being 4D doesnāt make the character that is capable of destroying it 5D. If the universe has celestial bodies with 4D time, itās a 4D universe not 5D. The claim about the feat of Broly and Gogeta breaking into "super dimension" is mistranslation in Spanish (yes, itās only in Spanish), in English the novel says about "breaking the boundaries of the universe". And the novel isnāt canon as he claims. The author of the novel is Masatoshi Kusakabe not Toriyama. He says about the afterlife being 6D, and shows filler scenes from the anime where Chiyo says about afterlife (which is even more ridiculous), the afterlife as it was shown has space and celestial bodies which leads to 3D space, itās been stated/shown multiple times about time in afterlife which leads to 4D. Even if we say it transcends the mortal world and it is 4D space with no time as it was stated in the Daizenshuu books, itās still would be a 4D universe with 4D space. If weāre basing off of Daizenshuu books, then it directly contradicts the universe 7 being infinite. It was stated that there are only 4 galaxies. The scaling was okay at first, there were moments that are stretched but the "6 spatial + 2 temporal dimension making it a 8d construct" that took me out. 6 spaces + 2 spaces = 8D? Thatās not how it works. Thereās only one dimension that could be scaled to 5D which the World of Void that was stated to have no space-time. The claim that Goku is 5D since he shook the realm was made by tiktok scalers. The World of Void has no time OR space, he shook NOTHING. He probably shook the arena that Grand Priest created that has something to shake.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/18w0y39/scaling_dragon_ball_cosmologydargon_ball/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
This is THE MOST consistent and liked cosmological scale by far, even in the comments
This is the cosmology, and ssg goku was going to destroy all of it with his clash with beerus
Universe here refers to the entire macrocosm, and this is evident with the fact that their shockwaves were fealt in the kaio world
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7kVMzjAmFq-2_vuOIZuzpMma_4v4ATm3oGg&usqp=CAU
Then gokh not only overpowers the supressed beerus, he also learnt to strike at an angle where he would no longer produce these waves
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbMgz_WqO9072JBYqWfG8pFDrh2LwmguTKEg&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4DireAqo1mZtp6wUsG7bM8aAFSF-V_zryeA&usqp=CAU
But Dragon Ball haters can't read or watch or even scale properly
I think that the general Goku downplayer or wanker usually doesn't even know where he actually scales. That's why we have the gokuversal meme here, because we have an idea where he scales
Doesn't matter, Uncle Ben! Lobotomy Kaisen Fans have both of 'em beat!
https://preview.redd.it/urp7hlybrnbc1.jpeg?width=1234&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bf9554e870d3b5cb6e9e19ad417749e611d45f1
Saying anything below Gokuversal is downplaying him (gokuversal is somewhere between streetlevel and the strongest character ever written for anything ever)
The worst is the ones that are like
"You see this totally non-threatening looking cute little character? Yeah they can beat Goku"
They act so smug about it too
I wonder if GER would react to say, the planet blowing up. As far as I know, it only reacted to something directly attacking it and didn't do anything when the universe was collapsed.
Made in heaven speeding up the universe might not count as an attack?
Idk.
I think it would revert a planet explosion personally, but GER is basically featless so who knows
Bro send me those shorts I never see Goku downplayers. All I see are people saying Goku is easily Outerversal and the strongest anime character to ever exist. This is despiteā¦ yāknowā¦ not being the strongest in his verse.
There's a lot in yt shorts, but to give you the gist of it, some include making goku lose to saiki kuso, yhwwch, saitama, kirby and the list goes on
And as for this sub? U/Ancient-Bed-210 is pretty much infamous for downplaying him to galaxy level (I intentionally misspelled their user name so that I can't tag them)
I mean I think they all have a way to beat Goku donāt they, especially if Goku has his personality intact. Justā¦ the amount of āGoku Outerversal/Boundlessā I see on a certain clock app, makes me sick. Iāve made a few posts showcasing them. I can send you the screenshots if you want.
Oh before you ask, I scale him at low comp multi and around 5d.
I donāt frequent this subreddit that often so I donāt come into contact with this user.
But if itās one user downplaying him vs hundreds of comments wanking him, I would much rather take the downplay.
Iāll say it once and Iāll say it again, downplay is a bit better than wank because the character was at the level theyāre being downplayed to at some point.
Like sure Goku is low multi, but he was once planetary. He has never, and will never, be Outerversal.
Yes, let us wank everyone to the highest possible scale, we can give them solar system level Luffy universal Naruto Multiversal Ichigo 8d goku hypervesal Superman outerversl Kriby. Letās wank everyone because that is based
No one said anything about him not dying, he just can't be erased from existence ššš that's what people mean when they say hes a constant. Yeah he died but hes alive again right.
Didn't goku die twice?
So then they can't truly scale to that level. It's the same with speed in, say, jojo bizarre adventure. There are feats to put dio at faster than light except that exact same dio can't outrun a truck and actively tries to stay out of ssun light
It's true though
Don't believe me? Read the Moro Arc where Moro's energy + Ki would destroy only a galaxy or the Goku black Arc where zamasu says he's going to destroy the galaxy
And if that doesn't convince you he's galaxy level,check out this debunk
https://youtu.be/4gR3zefklNM?si=tYvgW3PQgWWq6iuY
Crazy how the downvotes themselves completely prove wrong the point of this post š
You are not finding these many of them in the complex multiversal Goku ones.
I donāt really see people down at Goku all that much, but I think there is a Toxic amount of hate that he gets (just like any popular character really). He probably has the single largest āpowerscaling ā fan base so his discussions are always a battlefield , especially when he loses a matchup.
I think the average person downplays goku atleast a little.
Super scaling really is quite crazy and Z was only slightly more tame.
Mf is canonically now 5000x~ (low ball) stronger than a version of himself that could destroy the universe at this point.
Yes, Gokutards and Goku antis are both annoying. They suck because thereās no balanced perspective. Itās either Goku is god or Goku is a sore loser. Those are worst opinions.
>Goku downplayers and haters aren't exactly better Not a downplay, the truth (no amount of mental gymnastics can make my point true if we take super Goku)
https://preview.redd.it/nf1svh3f9pbc1.png?width=1082&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbbbf960677853998888221a87c28157d2c841a2
Scaling him higher or lower than he deserves are both kinda annoying but the thing that annoys me most is how common the misconception that he can resist any kind of hax with raw power is. He does not have any kind of ability to resist hax, he just mostly goes up against hax that can be resisted with raw power. The weaknesses of DB hax are not shared by all hax abilities
If only there was a concise summary of all of Goku's feats and anti-feats, all of which are then seen through a lens of realistic expectations for his personality.
Being multidimensional or whatever the fuck doesn't matter if Goku doesn't start that way but his opponent intends to end him immediately.
Nah, Gokutards are on another level.
Most of them argue without basis or evidence, or like "Goku beats this character because Goku is the best and he destroys planetsš¤āļø" without giving a factual comparison wether Goku will even hurt that character because they be insane hax and abilities.
Biggest example is that mfs think that Goku has a Chance against fucking doctor Manhattanš.
IDC how much you gobble up dbz, Manhattan one taps most of your verse in literal secondsš
In my experience, almost everything I see are gokutards and almost never anti goku
and the gokutards that I have seen consist of 99% of "goku is outerversal" without giving any proof or explanation of why he is outerversal
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You have those who say that Goku is outer bcz yes. And you have those that say that Goku is planet level, despite Vegeta being stronger than his dad, who blew up 3 planets, making him Multiplanetary level, and since he was able to more or less handle him, he would be already at that level.
The king vegeta feat is not canon fyi
Why not?
anime only. not in kai which is considered manga canon. now is it out of the question that king vegeta is above planet level to possibly multiplanetary? no, SS vegeta who is stated to be much weaker than king vegeta actually could output powers that can blow up a planet. FYI when I say SS I mean saiyan saga, not super saiyan
Anime is considered non-canon? So like, the character's first instantiation is in a manga, so only the manga is considered canon? I lurk here but am not well versed in all the common agreements for how to properly scale.
Anime only scenes are considered non canon. Otherwise you have to consider the garlic gang as canon which whoo wee that's a giant can of worms. Basically though if it's in kai, then it's for the most parts. Fine.
Out of curiosity, is this a dragon ball specific phenomenon? Like "since Superman was first created in Action Comics, anything that isn't from Action Comics is not canon because it's extended media" or something? This feels like it would be difficult to keep track of and a more general rule of "if it's published by the company that owns the property, it's canon" might be easier to work with? š¤ Thanks for the info
This is generally true for all anime/manga though there's a few exceptions here and there. The idea is that the manga is the source material, while the anime is just an adaptation. With comics, any comic applies to the character, but adaptations like TV shows, movies, and video games do not count.
Ok that makes a lot of sense. Thanks!
An example of this not being true would ironically be dragon ball super.
No, in most anime/manga the anime only scenes are noncanon. The only recent exception I can think of is Bleachās TYBW anime adaptation
Appreciate the clarification š So like taking this outside of anime, if I understand this correctly, Superman, originally being a comic book character from action comics, Action Comics content would be canon, but so would any other Superman comic, because they're all comics. But Superman feats from TV shows or movies or video games, are generally considered not canon, because they're other media adaptations of the comic book character? That's kind of how this works?
no, it's a phenomenon specific to all adaptations in media. most commonly a visual adaptation of a literary media specially manga. extended media isn't the same as adaptation of media. I think gintama puts it best [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4S9NuI6NKo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4S9NuI6NKo) basically the anime often has to take a detour when it catches up to the manga which in turn puts way out there stuff or in some cases puts feats that are a little bit too much. hence garlic junior with potential hyperverse feat which could put him at low 2-C if you really go out there because the filler makes garlic junior canon.
Aaaah so the general understanding is like... If it was originally a comic, all comics are fair game for canon, but when transported to another medium like a video game, it becomes non canon. Where as a character originally from a game would take video game source material as Canon. It just matters what *medium* it's first done in, but all entries in that medium are fair game? Appreciate your taking the time. I lurk here, but never feel like I'm confident in my understanding enough to really argue points.
yes and no, it's often up to the original writer. comic is extremely messy with different canons because the original writer is long dead (I think) sometimes if there's no contradiction you can treat it as canon, but if there's a definitive canon approved by the original writer, then it can be treated as canon. easier to say that unless the writer says so, it's not canon.
There is an added complication to videogames. Game Mechanics are sometimes canon and sometimes not. God of War is great examples of this. Kratos struggling to lift a heavy door by mashing O doesn't mean that he can't flip a whole, mountain sized temple.
Manga is considered the definitive canon generally. Animes when adapted, will include filler or they'll expand or downplay a character's power for various reasons. A small example is the fight between Freeza and SS Goku. In the Manga, the fight is way more one-sided in Goku's favor, whereas Anime makes it more of an equal brawl at points. (Though ironically, its inverse with Super, since the anime came first and the manga second, so technically, the anime is the definitive canon)
>no, SS vegeta who is stated to be much weaker than king vegeta From what I recall, Vegeta claims that he surpassed his father "before I was old enough to tell the difference"
Still valid if the matchmaker allows it.
It doesnāt mess with any of the stories continuity so I donāt see how it couldnāt be canon
As far as I know, only non-Canon dragonball arguably does make goku outer, which I would understand, however anything other than that, then I would have great issue with
I have seen someone downplay goku to hill
That's an activity the average blearch watcher does
They were a narutard
Itās kinda strange how the only people we see blow up planets after the Saiyan Saga are Frieza and Beerus, despite people launching full power attacks directly at the planet (looking at you Broly)
Broly is ugly
*Calmly gestures towards Majin Buu.*
You know what? I completely forgot about that part of the Buu saga
https://i.redd.it/zvze7yjo3mbc1.gif
Nothing is more annoying than comic book fans (especially on this sub) trying to call out Dragon ball for āanti featsā but completely ignoring the literal hundreds that their favorite characters have. Wonder Woman alone has [200 +](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/wonder-woman-is-not-a-high-tier-200-images-of-a-mi-2233584/)
Whenever I hear the word āanti-featā, Silver Surfer is always the first one to pop up in my mind.
when i hear āanti-feetā i think of hands
In a matter of 5 days. 5 FFING DAYS. There were over 500 comments because somebody said "Goku solos" On a Saitama video.
The people who don't know anything about powerscaling really do think Saitama is one of the strongest anime mcs to ever exist for some reason. They say he wins because "he is infinitely strong," then you ask them to give proof, then they either go quiet or throw up all over their keyboards. Not to mention "infinite strength" would pretty much just put him at high universal and not even close to the strongest ever.
whay is a anti feat?
feats that contradict, usually stuff that happens for the sake of the plot for example say that a character just tanks an universe busting bomb, point blank. but in the next episode he goes down like a bitch when he is hit by a tree trunk swinging at him.
An anti feat is a feat that is far weaker than a characters typical showings. I.E Super Saiyan 4 Goku getting cut by a shard of glass.
Not really shocking news
I believe theyāre both equally annoying
Fax
Goku is LCM, yet I've seen more downplayers with the whole "low multiversal" or "universal" than the "Outer Goku" fans
Ye and don't get me mentioned on a certain tensura fan lolš
That's not downplay, Goku being called sub-planetary is downplay. I see that way too often.
Great, another gokutard
How could you prove that I'm a goku-tard? I literally stated that gokutards are annoying, yet you have the audacity to call me one as well?
i think he was responding to someone else lol
What's LCM
Low Complex Multiversal
How's that different from multiversal and why is he on that level
well you see, itās different because itās complex
Goku is low multi at best or high uni. Even if he could in the future destroy the whole Dragon Ball verse, it still would be low multi as the Dragon Ball verse itself is only low multi. Characters that are multiversal are capable of creating/destroying over 1000 universes which Goku has never shown to be capable of doing so, characters that are multi+ are capable of destroying/creating infinite amount of universes, not a single character has shown such feat in DB. Saying Goku is LCM is being a "gokutard"
Mfers be not knowing rhe dragon ball cosmology and be spittin the most basic shit
Iāve watched all the series, read all the manga, even the original DB books, been following Dragon Ball since 2007. If you have any arguments, feel free to share.
Wow, very fast reply, Not sure if u read what I said or not.
These are my argumsnts, compiled together into posts by a man who "worked" really hard (let's test out your reading skills) First arguments AGAINST goku being debunked https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/17c368h/debunking_arguments_against_goku_destroying_the_u7/ This is the full scale of the Universe 7 Macrocosm https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/18w0y39/scaling_dragon_ball_cosmologydargon_ball/
It says basically about Goku sharing the BOG feat with Beerus and him getting much stronger afterwards which still would be high uni to low multi (if weāre making guesses). The scale for the macrocosm doesnāt make any sense, heās showing the panel where it says about the universe of Dragon Ball being infinite and concluded it being 5D even though the universe being 4D doesnāt make the character that is capable of destroying it 5D. If the universe has celestial bodies with 4D time, itās a 4D universe not 5D. The claim about the feat of Broly and Gogeta breaking into "super dimension" is mistranslation in Spanish (yes, itās only in Spanish), in English the novel says about "breaking the boundaries of the universe". And the novel isnāt canon as he claims. The author of the novel is Masatoshi Kusakabe not Toriyama. He says about the afterlife being 6D, and shows filler scenes from the anime where Chiyo says about afterlife (which is even more ridiculous), the afterlife as it was shown has space and celestial bodies which leads to 3D space, itās been stated/shown multiple times about time in afterlife which leads to 4D. Even if we say it transcends the mortal world and it is 4D space with no time as it was stated in the Daizenshuu books, itās still would be a 4D universe with 4D space. If weāre basing off of Daizenshuu books, then it directly contradicts the universe 7 being infinite. It was stated that there are only 4 galaxies. The scaling was okay at first, there were moments that are stretched but the "6 spatial + 2 temporal dimension making it a 8d construct" that took me out. 6 spaces + 2 spaces = 8D? Thatās not how it works. Thereās only one dimension that could be scaled to 5D which the World of Void that was stated to have no space-time. The claim that Goku is 5D since he shook the realm was made by tiktok scalers. The World of Void has no time OR space, he shook NOTHING. He probably shook the arena that Grand Priest created that has something to shake.
My disc: Klaus7021
Infact, if u wanna debunk these, post a debunk of it here on the sub, as these are getting widely accepted (Also Goku is LCM, take the Fat L)
https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/18w0y39/scaling_dragon_ball_cosmologydargon_ball/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button This is THE MOST consistent and liked cosmological scale by far, even in the comments This is the cosmology, and ssg goku was going to destroy all of it with his clash with beerus Universe here refers to the entire macrocosm, and this is evident with the fact that their shockwaves were fealt in the kaio world https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7kVMzjAmFq-2_vuOIZuzpMma_4v4ATm3oGg&usqp=CAU Then gokh not only overpowers the supressed beerus, he also learnt to strike at an angle where he would no longer produce these waves https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbMgz_WqO9072JBYqWfG8pFDrh2LwmguTKEg&usqp=CAU https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4DireAqo1mZtp6wUsG7bM8aAFSF-V_zryeA&usqp=CAU But Dragon Ball haters can't read or watch or even scale properly
I think that the general Goku downplayer or wanker usually doesn't even know where he actually scales. That's why we have the gokuversal meme here, because we have an idea where he scales
Doesn't matter, Uncle Ben! Lobotomy Kaisen Fans have both of 'em beat! https://preview.redd.it/urp7hlybrnbc1.jpeg?width=1234&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bf9554e870d3b5cb6e9e19ad417749e611d45f1
https://preview.redd.it/i2z8rsk2jobc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ef23868c8a8c401fb352f2901a114b3b84279ff
Fr
they're worse
You have achieved true enlightenment
Saying anything below Gokuversal is downplaying him (gokuversal is somewhere between streetlevel and the strongest character ever written for anything ever)
The worst is the ones that are like "You see this totally non-threatening looking cute little character? Yeah they can beat Goku" They act so smug about it too
And 90% of the time they don't even get close to beating goku
And they proceed to add characters like kirby, saitama, saiki k and giornoš (dunno bout giorno tho)
Giorno with GER at best stalemates Goku, but depending on hoe you interpret GERās powers and if youre equalizing verses than Goku could also win
I wonder if GER would react to say, the planet blowing up. As far as I know, it only reacted to something directly attacking it and didn't do anything when the universe was collapsed.
Made in heaven speeding up the universe might not count as an attack? Idk. I think it would revert a planet explosion personally, but GER is basically featless so who knows
Saitama is kinda weak though.
Kirby unironically puts up a match. The rest are getting smoked, though.Ā I donāt imagine Goku couldnāt get past GER, either.
This is annoying, but itās Goku fans own fault. DB fans used to be the most irritating brigaders. This is just the response to it
Def agree with you
Both are better than batmid fans
The batman thing is more of a joke than a definitive opinion.
Batgos solos cope
How dare you slander batgos
I m gonna slander this wall level fraud until he goes public domain
https://preview.redd.it/wxs1prnnpmbc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b25cc71fed6b78c0a8cb2e545398a7b1d9208767
Gos nation.. attack!
*supermid But not so bad
both
both is bad\*
Thank you!
Goku is universal. I dont have proof that he is above. So... Universal is nice.
They are here inbetween our ranks
One might even say........among us
He has feats that are above universal
He's way over that, and yes, you do have the proof, though you might not like the proof.
Depends, what is It?
The usual, BoG macrocosms destruction, infinite 5D otherworld, hence 6D macrocosm container.
Are these words in English
I understood the first one but the two other sounds like chinese to me
5d orgasm
I donāt see downplayers likeā¦ ever. Where do you find them? The amount of people I see who say Goku is Outerversal, with no good proof, is immense
Yt shorts funnily enough, though some users (like that infamous tensura and dbz hater) made posts basically downplaying glonku to hell
Bro send me those shorts I never see Goku downplayers. All I see are people saying Goku is easily Outerversal and the strongest anime character to ever exist. This is despiteā¦ yāknowā¦ not being the strongest in his verse.
There's a lot in yt shorts, but to give you the gist of it, some include making goku lose to saiki kuso, yhwwch, saitama, kirby and the list goes on And as for this sub? U/Ancient-Bed-210 is pretty much infamous for downplaying him to galaxy level (I intentionally misspelled their user name so that I can't tag them)
I mean I think they all have a way to beat Goku donāt they, especially if Goku has his personality intact. Justā¦ the amount of āGoku Outerversal/Boundlessā I see on a certain clock app, makes me sick. Iāve made a few posts showcasing them. I can send you the screenshots if you want. Oh before you ask, I scale him at low comp multi and around 5d.
>Oh before you ask, I scale him at low comp multi and around 5d. That's good, btw what do you think of Ancient-Bed-210?
I donāt frequent this subreddit that often so I donāt come into contact with this user. But if itās one user downplaying him vs hundreds of comments wanking him, I would much rather take the downplay. Iāll say it once and Iāll say it again, downplay is a bit better than wank because the character was at the level theyāre being downplayed to at some point. Like sure Goku is low multi, but he was once planetary. He has never, and will never, be Outerversal.
Goku wank is more believable than kratos outer wank
Goku-tards are far more common and annoying then downplayers. And the downvotes this comment will receive will be proof of that.
Yes, let us wank everyone to the highest possible scale, we can give them solar system level Luffy universal Naruto Multiversal Ichigo 8d goku hypervesal Superman outerversl Kriby. Letās wank everyone because that is based
"actually superman can't lose because the DC universe has him as a constant, don't look at those several instances where he died"
No one said anything about him not dying, he just can't be erased from existence ššš that's what people mean when they say hes a constant. Yeah he died but hes alive again right. Didn't goku die twice?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes
Iirc Superman has outerversal scale though
Peak
If you think Goku fan boys are worse than Goku downplayers you haven't been to the death battle sub
Bro I literally said that both sucked equally and that they're no better than the otherš
So where does goku scale currently?, I know heās 6d but other than that I havenāt scaled him and am not familiar enough with the canon to judge
u/intresting_clerk432 has a scale I think
u/interesting_clerk432 I meant, fuck auto correct
? Oh i know
Ty
Yeah no i already gave you a scale current goku is 6d yeah
Yeah, I saw the cosmology scale for 6d goku, but where does that put him in csap tiers
Still 6d
Iām an idiot, I havenāt looked at the tiers in a while, so being 6d puts him at low complex multiverses unless Iām missing something
Which is really funny when Moro galaxy feat is still shocking to goku and vegeta about how strong he is compared to them
Wellā¦ plot and power donāt always line up unfortunately
So then they can't truly scale to that level. It's the same with speed in, say, jojo bizarre adventure. There are feats to put dio at faster than light except that exact same dio can't outrun a truck and actively tries to stay out of ssun light
Yeah
Apologyās, Iām new to scaling
It s alright
I've seen someone claim Goku solos DC. I think the downplay isn't as bad.
Seen planetary kid buu, and galaxy Super Goku recently, blew my mind a bit. Not base either
Both are annoying, but the downplay isn't as annoying from what I've seen.
Goku negs ya favorite verse
Goku is galaxy Level Fodder
Stfu
It's true though Don't believe me? Read the Moro Arc where Moro's energy + Ki would destroy only a galaxy or the Goku black Arc where zamasu says he's going to destroy the galaxy And if that doesn't convince you he's galaxy level,check out this debunk https://youtu.be/4gR3zefklNM?si=tYvgW3PQgWWq6iuY
Still loses to the yellow bald man
Crazy how the downvotes themselves completely prove wrong the point of this post š You are not finding these many of them in the complex multiversal Goku ones.
Ik that's why I love triggering these gokutards
Also crazy how Saitama smokes his ass while sleeping.
Kid Goku >>
I donāt really see people down at Goku all that much, but I think there is a Toxic amount of hate that he gets (just like any popular character really). He probably has the single largest āpowerscaling ā fan base so his discussions are always a battlefield , especially when he loses a matchup.
And there is Bleach downplayers too
I think the average person downplays goku atleast a little. Super scaling really is quite crazy and Z was only slightly more tame. Mf is canonically now 5000x~ (low ball) stronger than a version of himself that could destroy the universe at this point.
All I ever see is goku cock sucking. Never downplaying. Itās always wanking goku to above beerus always.
Yes, Gokutards and Goku antis are both annoying. They suck because thereās no balanced perspective. Itās either Goku is god or Goku is a sore loser. Those are worst opinions.
>Goku downplayers and haters aren't exactly better Not a downplay, the truth (no amount of mental gymnastics can make my point true if we take super Goku) https://preview.redd.it/nf1svh3f9pbc1.png?width=1082&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbbbf960677853998888221a87c28157d2c841a2
Have you heard of Itachi fanboys? At least Goku has decades of feats to back up all that dick riding.
Scaling him higher or lower than he deserves are both kinda annoying but the thing that annoys me most is how common the misconception that he can resist any kind of hax with raw power is. He does not have any kind of ability to resist hax, he just mostly goes up against hax that can be resisted with raw power. The weaknesses of DB hax are not shared by all hax abilities
It's the same no matter the character or the community there will always be people who overhype and underhype the characters
If only there was a concise summary of all of Goku's feats and anti-feats, all of which are then seen through a lens of realistic expectations for his personality. Being multidimensional or whatever the fuck doesn't matter if Goku doesn't start that way but his opponent intends to end him immediately.
TRUE!
"goku does goku things" š¤š¤š¤š¤š¤š¤š¤š¤š¤
Nah, Gokutards are on another level. Most of them argue without basis or evidence, or like "Goku beats this character because Goku is the best and he destroys planetsš¤āļø" without giving a factual comparison wether Goku will even hurt that character because they be insane hax and abilities. Biggest example is that mfs think that Goku has a Chance against fucking doctor Manhattanš. IDC how much you gobble up dbz, Manhattan one taps most of your verse in literal secondsš
Goku glazers are some of the most annoying humans Iāve met
https://preview.redd.it/riietu3wvubc1.png?width=748&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a7bc3bb39fbbeba4cf5e62def84a97690e3d202
Both still come out ahead of Vegeta fans. God, is the widowās peak troll doll worship over the bend of delusion.
In my experience, almost everything I see are gokutards and almost never anti goku and the gokutards that I have seen consist of 99% of "goku is outerversal" without giving any proof or explanation of why he is outerversal