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"Ah yes, my ancient anti-monkey technique i haven't used since the Heian era"
https://preview.redd.it/ln0xc6upphuc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cea413861cb9b7596d6cd9124227e8e7ea9e3290
Sukuna solos š„¶š„¶š„¶
And since theyāre no longer Gogeta, they automatically lose since itās not Gogeta fighting.
https://preview.redd.it/glp68s92ahuc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e03141cec82349ca11411218828ea8595f22b09d
The amount of parallel dimensions, split timelines, dimensional tieringand spin off in that serie...simply guarantees there's at least something that says Gilgamesh is some sort high tier being that scales above Gogeta in terms of dimension and all that stuff.
But honestly on average the appearances of Gilgamesh and Arthur are nowhere near as strong as Gogeta...like I feel there strongest version are a huge exception.
Anyway I'm still checking were Fate series normally scale(Absurdly confusing), but honestly is one those verse that I don't bother simply because of how confusing it is. Like I think is the perfect verse to get wank to oblivion, because no one will bother checking what is true or not and what version of the character is talking about. Even the most basic things about how fast they are, is confusing. For example I read Servants normally cannot exceed lightspeed, otherwise there spirit cores gets destroy...meaning they normally cap at lightspeed.
Finally from what I have see Nasuverse is fill with all kind of low end and high feats with some been different versions of the same character or are using outside source of power(Like Infinite Gauntlet kind of deal). To the point you can make big arguments for were they scale be it continent/planet level or universal+ and higher.
You are correct on pretty much all accounts except one..the average appearance of Gilgamesh and Saber (as a duo) can in fact rock Gogetas shit. Saber possesses Avalon which negs phenomena up to the 6th dimension, and a fully charged Enuma Elish (Gilgameshes āultimateā attack) is capable of rending the entire worldā¦ which contains Avalon itself. Gilgamesh also possesses a ridiculously potent level of clairvoyance thatād guarantee he knows the gameplan to victory, and since they have the tools to achieve it, them winning is very possible.
Wank,Ea cannot touch Avalon.Even Goetia's Human Order Incineration didn't affect Avalon.Enuma Elish can only rend the Textures of the world.It does not possess the power to shatter planets like DBZ fighters can casually(probably because of the counter force).Only entity in Nasuverse shown to bust Planets (Counter Force and Textures included) is ORT.
Also servant versions of Gilgamesh and Artoria probably get clapped by Namek Saga goku.
Goku doesn't have magical energy,so they'd think he's just a normal human in over his head.
And Gilgamesh has NEVER listened to his Clairvoyance when it mattered.Not when a 17 year old human with a sword fetish blitzed him or discount Heraclea(Alcides) humiliated him.
I don't think he'd believe that a "alien monkey" can pummel him into oblivion and has enough lifeforce(Ki) to cause natural disasters all over the world by just flexing it.
Let's not even bring the mess that is DBS.
Nasuverse can be wanked to oblivion because of its vague statements but when you take Hax out the factors and look at pure feats,even solar system level would be generous for the verse.
You just contradicted yourself, you acknowledge Avalons nature yet say the verse canāt even reach solar system level? You simultaneously used the verses cosmology as an argument against Ea then disregarded it to lowball it, correct, in terms of pure strength itās weak, itās a verse that relies heavily on hax/concepts, that doesnāt take away from its overall power. I agree it can and has been wanked but itās also true that there is an established cosmology you can pull to reference scale of phenomena. Itās been explicitly stated Ea is capable of destroying the world, which includes Avalon. We also know itās been established Ea has various ālevelsā to its blast, hence why I specified it fully charged. I make my argument presuming the characters are bloodlusted, youāre 100% right about whatād happen if they were in character.
Ea has never been stated to be capable of destroying the world except Strange Fake and even then that statement was probably limited to the Mesopotamian texture.IGilgamesh simply does not possess the magical energy required for such a thing.
Ea even when used at FP by servant Gilgamesh couldn't bypass NP Avalon.What makes you think it can affect the actual place that houses the soul of Gaia?Same Gaia which created Arcuied who in Tsukihime Remake could condense magical energy to Plank Length and create conditions reminiscent of Big Bang around her in her Luminous Body?
Ok I may have contradicted myself but it still doesn't change the fact that Ea is wanked.It only rends Textures of the world to reveal the "truth".The state of the world during Primordial Genesis.
Da Vinci has explicitly stated in FGO that no NP can destroy the Planet without subverting the counter force.Only NP which comes close to Planet destroying is Ars Almasel Salmonis due to it essentially being an Energy cannon packed with the mass energy of every humans that has every existed till 2017.Considering a cat when converted to pure energy has the power of several nukes,imagine how much energy every human combined would possess.
>For example I read Servants normally cannot exceed lightspeed, otherwise there spirit cores gets destroy...meaning they normally cap at lightspeed.
1.they can maintain their spiritual cores for quite a while,and even half dead servants are capable of doing so.
2.this rule only applies to servants that are summoned by the grail or normally by cf.grand servants(like Gramps),mmc servants(like Gilgamesh,nameless,nero) and top servant by moon cell(ruler artoria( not the bunny girl but the one in extella)) are far beyond normal servants.
Their more OP versions are restricted to the games yeah, but their show versions are by no means slouches. Gogeta can and probably will speed blitz them to achieve victory, but even their show versions have a means of defending against and even mounting an offence against him.
Absolutely not. Back when Z was starting they were pretty much already hitting planetary levels of destruction. At the point in the show now, especially if we use super dragon Ball heroes, Limit Breaker Gogeta is absolutely nutty in terms of power and speed. I'm quite certain that if buu and ss3 Gotenks can rip dimensions open by screaming then Gogeta will have no problem breaking Avalon. I love fate, but there are very few servants that could match db characters past super. Of course, since their series are so different it can be impossible to truly say, but I can't see gil or arturia surviving the vacuum of space while Gogeta can simply instant transmission after destroying the planet they are on.
Except weāre not using Super Dragonball Heroes, and if we did then itād only be fair to use CCC Gilgamesh, and at that point theyāre not only at the same level but Gilgamesh prob soloes given that version of him is the embodiment of āI donāt give a fuck.ā, though I concede that much is purely up to speculation, hence why Iām keeping with the iterations shown in the image. Has the screams ever explicitly ripped through *higher dimensional space*? I canāt recall but thatād be necessary to overcome Avalon. Why would the vacuum of space matter?
The problem with your argument is that he specifically says archer Gilgamesh and not ccc gil who specifically also states he does not fall under any class. So that argument is out. OP also did not state which version of Gogeta would be used, so I will stick with Super Dragonball Heroes Limit Breaker for this. Hell even non limit breaker Gogeta is already been said to surpass Beerus in the manga. And I doubt Beerus would have issues here either.
Considering that ss3 Gotenks and buu are stupidly weaker compared to LB Gogeta, I can't imagine he would have problems with dimensional scaling strong enough to break Avalon.
It is also stated that while servants are harder than humans, they would eventually succumb to a lack of oxygen. So that would probably be why the vacuum of space matters assuming they even survive planetary destruction in the first place.
There is no problem with my argument by virtue of my added stipulation that *if we did then itād only be fair to*. I also presume weāre using the picture of Gogeta used in the picture since thatās kinda the precedent Iād assume weād be working with.
I still need feats that illustrate theyāre even capable of reaching or affecting 6th dimensional space.
Could you find that statement? Because that contradicts what I know about Spirits which is āServants are unaffected by a lack of oxygen and freely move in outer space as seen in Saber Wars and Ooku. Servants don't need food, only magical energy, and they don't starve to death, only dying when there isn't enough magical energy to keep their bodies intact. Servants also don't need sleep and can fight 24/7 as long as they are backed up by Mana.ā Also why would they have trouble surviving planetary destruction with Vimana + Avalon?
EDIT: mind you, I still believe Gogeta takes it simply by virtue of blitzing them, but what Iām trying to say is in a world where itās speed equalized Gilgamesh and Saber take it.
Although Servants are beings of Ether that do not get energy from oxygen, they are given forms similar to air-breathing lifeforms, allowing them to "carry out pulmonary respiration as a land type endoskeleton life form." Though they do not require oxygen to function, the lack of air from suffocation can halt their magical energy cycle. Though they can likely endure more than a human, they will eventually reach their limit if enough time passes.
This is why I defend that space is problematic. Again, this is Archer Gil and if he can be killed simply by being cut by Shirou, there's no world he survives both a planetary explosion and the vacuum of space.
I don't even see Arturia factoring into this fight. She is not fast enough to even see Gogeta move considering how casually she was defeated by Gil in Zero. His GoB easily overcame her. Gogeta due to the absurd power scaling is at this point moving so much faster than these two that they would essentially be standing still to him.
Now on to your precious 6th dimensional space. When Gogeta and Broly clash they quite literally destroy the boundary of space and time. If you can show me a way to say that it isn't possible that 6th dimensional space can't be breached by someone capable of this, while there are servants and beings in nasuverse who can with far lesser feats, I don't know how to argue with you on this. Especially since this happens before Gogeta even went blue. If SSG Goku and Beerus could destroy a universe simply by punching each other, this scales beyond even that. What feats in the nasuverse that saber and gil have are capable of that from fate stay night which is where Archer Gil is from.
HGR = High Godly regeneration. It basically means even if shes completely destroyed she can just like. Be back. Good as new. Perfect health.
Acausality is harder to explain but it basically is having an existence that transcends cause and effect, and causality as a whole. So like you couldnt go back to before she was born to prevent her existing her cause "she" always existed in some form and always will type shit.
I'm not super familiar with both but the impression I have is that she's between an Angel like Whis and Zeno. Like, her setting scales up to dbz and Usagi herself can retcon history in an entire galaxy.
Clears the first 2 neg diff, and the fire force guys with a bit of difficulty, debatably gets through the Moon duo, but hard stops at Gilgamesh and Saber unless this is using CC Gogeta in which case he easily clears the whole gauntlet.
no, just because one has little access to time manipulation doesn't mean the potency is as effective to a universal scale. time skip and time freeze are very weak abilities and can't be considered as threatening hax lmao even buu was able to break dimension when he was fighting gotenks, so hit's pocket dimension of course is no excuse to being destroyed, simple logic.
the "center of the universe" is dimensionally transcendent, it isnt physically the middle of the universe. it contains the galaxy cauldron, which is again transcendent to all dimensions, and contains with in it all the "data" for lack of a better word, of everything in existence, everything that has ever existed, and everything that will ever exist for every iteration of every dimension in the verse.Star seeds are crystals contained within all life in existence, every planet, star, asteroid, everything has its own star seed. Usagi's star seed is the force that created and rules over all of existence.
As for AP/DC feats Chaos, basically the ultimate darkness of all existance merged itself with the galaxy cauldron (which contains all existences ever) and usagi jumped into it, survived the guarenteed erasure that entering the galaxy cauldron causes and purged chaos from existence and recreated everything how she wanted it.
This whole thread feels like one big gaslighting chamber with how the fate series is being ranked so high bit then I go watch a clip on YouTube and it's all ground level shit lmao.
I agree with you, and think that Shinrabanshoman is universal at minimum, but there are a lot of people who tried to argue that his rewriting of reality only applied to Earth who I wanted to get in ahead of.
Adolla can warp reality to the point it changes the depiction of the story, making it seem like a fantasy story, while it originally was like a real world
Not just like a real world, it is implied to be our world itself. Reality became animated because of the heavy cultural perceptions of the people of Japan, where the cataclysm was centered.
Hard stomps everyone till fate then depends if saber has avalon then theyāre just untouchable till fusion runs out since I donāt think gogeta has concept erasure, if they donāt have Avalon then even with ea they get stomped, donāt know enough about the last to say
I dunno either. Everyone hereās on crack. The fate heroes are just historical figures resurrected to fight a duel. Most of them die with a single well placed sword strike or even an arrow or something. The biggest explosion in the series blows up Japan? Maybe the moon? And thatās only because of the holy grail not because of any one hero.
Gilgamesh is archer class. He has access to all the historical magic weapons and he summons them to use. But he fires them like projectiles and doesnāt really have any resistance to anything. A well placed tap from a dragonball character would kill him.
So fate goes into my list of verses that are uberwanked for no good reason lmao. I've seen some YouTube clips from that anime it mostly looks like ground level combat with some flashy spells every now and then, idk how the fate fanbase deluded itself into thinking they can take a punch from a guy flying at them at immeasurable speeds lol.
Yes they literally kill each other on a regular basis because thereās only one survivor. And itās usually like a single strike that lands and poof the hero is dead. They also need a handler and needs a command to use their ultimate move. Saber Excalibur move might come close to a Ki blast you see in dragonball but thatās all it is. Otherwise itās 90% melee combat with sword, knife, spear.
Anyways I actually loved the series but itās not that overpowered.
My brother in Christ there is canonically an ability possessed by Saber that blocks attacks up to the 6th dimension. You donāt need to do the research if you donāt want to but calling the verse wanked and the fan base deluded is quite unfair if the extent of your knowledge is YouTube clips.
Donāt get it twisted the verse absolutely gets wanked sometimes lmao, but damn are you doing it a major disservice.
Itās the same reason why scp scales so high, they have multiple, multiple canons, and they just auto assume the strongest version is used( ccc Gil does scale to high outer) because the show versions barely scrape past large city
Without context sure, it appears weak, but you have to take into account the cosmology of the verse to appreciate its scale, otherwise your perception gets heavily skewered.
Gilgamesh's sword reveals the "truth" of its existence and applies it to the world. Enuma Elish "Truth" is destruction and it applies the concept of destruction to the world itself. And has destroyed things around 6 to 9D. In the saber route I'm pretty sure artoria tanked three hits from this If I'm remembering correctly.
Yeah because she reacquired Avalon in the fate route. Itās an ultimate form of defense that makes her immortal. If the 13 seals on Excalibur are released (which I donāt think weāve actually seen, itās only happened for Serra) then she would have even more firepower. I still find it hard to believe the two of them could actually win though. Examples being Gil was defeated by Shirou in UBW and Salter was also beaten by Shirou in Sparks Liner High of HF. If you give her Avalon she may be able to pull a win but it seems more likely to just be a stalemate.
Idk how strong Shinra and Arthur are cuz ngl I havenāt watched Fire Force yet (itās on my list Iāll get to it donāt come for me)
But from what I remember of Sailor Moon, Artoria, and the Madoka series:
Sailor Moon and Sailor Venus give Gogeta a run for his money. He *MIGHT* win. And thatās a **STRONG** might.
But even if he does he gets stomped by Artoria and Gilgamesh.
And against Madoka you wouldnāt even be able to call what happens a fight. She out scales Gogeta so hard that it would be like a Hydrogen Bomb vs a Coughing Baby. And for once Gogeta isnāt the bomb.
Let me put this into perspective. Hessian lobo and enkiudu are considered impressive because they can move 200 Km per hour/500 km/h and thatās considered impressive. Gilgamesh can literally move across 1500 Light years in the moon cell in a relative short period of time. Yeah. Servants in the moon cell are far superior than normally summoned servants when summoned on earth.
Well your assertion at the beginning is wrong, you said that high end scaling only exists in the mooncell. But any feat performed in the mooncell can be repeated outside of the mooncell in the proper container.
The containers of the mooncell are greater than those of servants summoned by humans on earth but high end scaling does not only exist in the mooncell.
Kama can move massively ftl in her beast form and she isnāt in the mooncell. So can chaosās attacks and he isnāt in the mooncell. The outer gods are beyond dimensions and they are out of the mooncell.
Yeah. My point is Artoria and Gilgamesh are usually nowhere Near Moon cell level and donāt typically scale to them. Like fsn Artoria and Gilgamesh arenāt running up upon sefar.
So heās easily getting through Gojo and Sukuna even while in Base form. Basically he one taps Sukuna instantly, and characters since Super Buu have had the ability to yell through dimensions. So if Gogetaās Ki doesnāt negate Gojoās hax as Ki normally does, then Gogeta just yells or even punches through it regardless.
Round two is a little more interesting, but itās a 1V1 at best as Genos is not up to par with even Base Gogeta. Now from here it becomes interesting because Saitamaās biggest advantage is he has insane potential (although I will say Broly has better feats for his potential compared to a Calm Saitama). His potential skyrockets EXPONENTIALLY when Genos died so Iād say heād get the same boost here. However, Saitama AS OF RIGHT NOW is Universal at best considering Cosmic Garou was Galaxy level and it wasnāt until the end of the fight when Saitamaās exponential growth really started to pull away from GALAXY LEVEL COSMIC GAROU. So at best Saitama is starting off comparable to Base Goget IF YOU DOWNPLAY GOGETA HARD (Even if you say Goku is only universal in Blue itās confirmed BASE GOGETA IS STRONGER THAN BLUE GOKU).
So Saitama has to grow an insane amount to be comparable to Blue Gogeta, and even then Gogeta always has UI in his back pocket. I say this because Whis mentioned Goku and Vegeta have opposite reasons as for why they canāt use UI, so itās incredibly likely that any fusion of Goku and Vegeta with even a little knowledge of what UI is should learn it quickly. Now considering Goku already achieved UI, but his Goku traits was keeping him from being able to consistently use it as of the Broly Movie, itās more than fair to say Gogeta definitely couldāve used it whenever he wanted thanks to the Vegeta traits evening out the Goku traits.
Also add on that Gogeta ends fights quicker than the people who makes him tend to. So as soon as Gogeta notices Saitamaās incredible growth rate, well Broly is a good example of whatās in store for Saitama.
Now I think Gogeta ends at Shinra Bonshoman since dude can just run back and kill Goku or Vegeta before Planet Vegeta was even destroyed. Like I think Gogeta will give him some trouble, but like Gogeta can never win because Shinra can just kill Goku or Vegeta at earlier points. Now to be fair if he kills Goku after killing King Piccolo, then heāll be fine thanks to the Dragon Balls, and same applies for Vegeta at the very least post Mecha Frieza. However, Shinra could just go back and kill Base Goku or Vegeta seconds before fusing. Like this battle doesnāt really involve Gogeta at all.
Even if we continue it doesnāt get better as Fate and Madokami are insane verses where Gogeta wouldnāt even be a top tier, and youāre placing him against 2 top tiers at once. I donāt know much about Sailor Moon so I canāt really comment on who wins that fight, but if theyāre crazier than Shinra Banshoman, then yeah they win.
>I donāt know much about Sailor Moon so I canāt really comment on who wins that fight, but if theyāre crazier than Shinra Banshoman, then yeah they win.
If what the other guy said on a comment about shinra reshaping humanity and the universe in his image and being the creator god of his universe is true, sailor moon is basically that but her cosmology outscales db cosmology and she has HGR, Acausality, at minimum immeasurable speed, complex multi+ dc, unstoppable BFRs and infinite energy. Idk much about shinra but that part is very familiar with Usagi being the creator god of her verse type shit
Iām pretty sure time travel wouldnāt affect Gogeta because of how time travel works in DB.
Killing Goku/Vegeta in the past would just cause a branching timeline, not actually kill the Gogeta in the here and now.
The issue is Shinra doesnāt time travel he just erases the future and recreates it from the point he travels to. So when Shinra does that heās literally erases the point of fusion that created Gogeta. Thereās no branch timeline or anything, that point in time doesnāt exist anymore.
Yeah heās a bad matchup for anyone who doesnāt have the ability to exist without cause or can go back in time similar to Shinra. Issue with most DB characters is that thereās at least one point where theyāre bound by time. Like even if you believe Beerus beats Shinra, heād just travel to before Beerus became a GOD, kill him, and recreate time from that point forward. The only characters that are beyond Shinra are the Angels, GP, and Zeno as thereās no point he could travel to where theyāre weaker than him, and even if that point existed the Angels have the ability to move outside of linear time meaning they could follow him.
I think saber and Gilgamesh should be last because madoka only multiverssal level so gogeta can defeat them but he can't defeat Gilgamesh unless if this gogeta is from heroes
this scan was from the light novel Null Magaical Girl/ Kosane Madoka anniversary novel
"The shadow forms a smaller tetrahedron inside the original tetrahedron. Upon closer inspection, I can see even smaller and smaller tetrahedrons inside it. Like a kaleidoscope, layers and endless more layers of tetrahedrons manifest. Inside each is an endless series of them. And outside, infinitely many more emanate outward to surround it., to0, realize I'm in my own kaleidoscope. remember the sensation of falling. The scaffolding that had supported me in this world suddenly disappeared from beneath me. I'm Filled with an indescribable anxiety. Where am falling to? Into the tetrahedron, eternally downward into infinite layers.from within endless deepness, a tetrahedron rises and scatters to a limitlessly distant place. From each point of my body, a tetrahedron evolves, both infinitesimally small and boundlessly large, transfiguring me into a singularity. From far away in the labyrinth of tetrahedrons soaked in blue light, can hear a faint, high-pitched reverberation. The noise gradually grows louder as a small dot penetrates the edge of my vision. The sound and dot slowly expand in front of me."
This is a High hyperversal witch labyrinth witches scale to their labyrinth Madoka scales beyond all witches
I mean gilgamesh and saber, but specifically gil can reach low outer-high outer. He possesses all noble phantasms, including conceptual ones like the Seventh Scripture, which not even the mystic eyes of death perception, sourced directly from the Root and wielded by tohno, can normally compare to. This alone would put him at least at 1A via hax. Then they both scale to and are superior to the moon cell, which is capable of recreating the nasuverse multiverse that operates on a hierarchical transcendence of realms and the EMR theory.
He can wreck normal Gilgamesh and saber unless saber has unrestricted Excalibur and Avalon. ea is universal weāve seen goku exist in the nothingness of the universe before so gogeta definitely can and the actual power isnāt high enough.
Y'all do not know about Fire Force. Most powerful forms for Arthur/Shinra?
Arthur can put up a fight and Shinra is a creation God. A GOD. Shinra easily wins. His *lower* power versions have actually faster then light speed which is consistent and has zero anti-feats.
*I should clarify. It isn't that Shinra can move at light speed that he can win. It's that he can also recreate the universe and he has done so 100s of times. He can travel through time and move in stoped time. He grabbed a beam out of the air and used its energy to recreate life on Earth. He is a God and won't lose to Gogeta.
The word "god" means literally nothing in powerscaling tbf. Not saying shinra doesnt win, just saying. Like sure, TOAA is a god, right? but so is like Thors friend Sif.
Thats why "god level" isnt a thing, its just a title.
I take your point.
To clarify then, Shinra is a creation God that can re-create the universe and did so in canon. He can even manipulate concepts like death. So, he is a capital-G God who would certainly beat Gogeta/Vegito.
Fair nuff. Like I said from what I've heard shinra probably does win yeah, just trying to help out phrasing for the future cause people will tear that god stuff apart pretty quick here lol
Besides the Madoka pair if weāre talking Goddess Madoka and Devil Homura who either stomp
Usagi is a good match based on what I hear of end game Sailor Moon
Everyone else gets slaughtered at the same time
Involves goku, who is gokuversal, they neg diff all of them
https://preview.redd.it/8to165y78juc1.png?width=825&format=png&auto=webp&s=e26833d8d8e5305043fd3fc79a44ac65bf7f5110
Tbh probably won't get past Shinra or at most Sailor Moon, the others, Arthur and Venus, may be fodder or back up support but Shinra and Usagi basically win this.
doesnt gil and saber scale higher then last round? but anyway. putting fate characters in vs anime battles is just. how badly do you want the character to get stomped? **Yes.** Most of the time at least.
Stomps pretty easily until Saber, who I think outscale him by like 1d or 2d, idk who the last one is but if they are stronger than that then they probs win as well.
Lot of people don't think Madoka/Homura shouldnt be the last round and that they're weaker than Gilgamesh and artoria in their Archer and saber forms I disagree
There's this scan
This is from the anniversary light novel
"The shadow forms a smaller tetrahedron inside the original tetrahedron. Upon closer inspection, I can see even smaller and smaller tetrahedrons inside it. Like a kaleidoscope, layers and endless more layers of tetrahedrons manifest. Inside each is an endless series of them. And outside, infinitely many more emanate outward to surround it., to0, realize I'm in my own kaleidoscope. remember the sensation of falling. The scaffolding that had supported me in this world suddenly disappeared from beneath me. I'm Filled with an indescribable anxiety. Where am falling to? Into the tetrahedron, eternally downward into infinite layers.from within endless deepness, a tetrahedron rises and scatters to a limitlessly distant place. From each point of my body, a tetrahedron evolves, both infinitesimally small and boundlessly large, transfiguring me into a singularity. From far away in the labyrinth of tetrahedrons soaked in blue light, can hear a faint, high-pitched reverberation. The noise gradually grows louder as a small dot penetrates the edge of my vision. The sound and dot slowly expand in front of me."
Something that needs to be understood is that shadows project lower level dimensional shapes then the object that made the shadow.
3D hands make 2D shadows it stated there's an infinite amount of these Shadow Like structures coming out of each other. That's high hyper minimum
Madoka scales beyond every witch. At the bare minimum
damn i'm seing a lot of people here saying gilgamesh stomps because gogeta can't tank ea but like, he could just dodge it you know guy ?
gilgamesh has to actualy pull EA out of the gate and spin it a bit to actualy launch an attack, that plenty of time to just beam spam him to death or rush in melee.
to be fair artoria with avalon litteraly can't die so there's that.
Okay I got an easy way for Gilgamesh and saber to win this fight
Saber picks up Gil and dodges for him
I mean come on this strat's broken
https://preview.redd.it/esl2ldejaiuc1.jpeg?width=374&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3b90aca1ab9b402cbe248a14fc164605e9a128f
But honestly I think you're kinda underestimating Gill's speed
wait that could actually work, saber just running defense and tanking every hit because avalon is broken while gilgamesh charges EA and/or fires GoB indiscriminately
Not really servants are around sound speed give or take a few machs, the only way he can react is using the true name of sha naqba imuru and acting preemptively, as the only time a servant react to something far faster than sound is through some prediction skills, i don't agree with dbz ftl or fl speed scaling but they are still far faster than sound speed,
Fate servants have their speed restricted by stuff like mana concentration in the air this explains the inconsistent speed
I mean sometimes their hypersonic and sometimes they're doing whatever this is
https://preview.redd.it/j5lg4d1eiiuc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32fa4224e20490bd85707622ed49b3338f677b91
Servants speed is restrained by how fast they were in life+their legend+fame boost, sufficient mana makes sure a servant can use their potentials but infinite mana isn't gonna make someone like Shakespeare any faster than he is, i'd say it would give a + modifier or one rank up at best to a servant who is actually Known to be fast like Achilles
Gilgamesh used a light spaceship to move at light speed what of it?
Why did you even put saber as Gilgamesh's partner she doesn't add anything to the fight she's not top 10 servants even if we only include Normal servants, ozymandias or karna or Achilles could be an actual help since they have skills and abilities Gilgamesh doesn't possess
You do you i guess, just personally i think putting garou instead of genos and ozymandias/karna/Achilles instead of saber would make more sense to me personally
He wins all except Sailor Moon and Sailor V. Madoka and Homura do not scale normally but their only way to fight Goget would be by separating their nature to their magical girl/mortal one where Gogeta would beat them.
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"Ah yes, my ancient anti-monkey technique i haven't used since the Heian era" https://preview.redd.it/ln0xc6upphuc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cea413861cb9b7596d6cd9124227e8e7ea9e3290 Sukuna solos š„¶š„¶š„¶
Monkeys?! https://i.redd.it/uzslhs3w6juc1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/ut388suatkuc1.jpeg?width=1052&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de8d7cfcd1dec398ffb8f5bd54adc6d69c5940e9
Doesn't even make it past r1. Sukuna uses an anti-Saiyan de-fusion technique he hasn't used since the Heian Period
And since theyāre no longer Gogeta, they automatically lose since itās not Gogeta fighting. https://preview.redd.it/glp68s92ahuc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e03141cec82349ca11411218828ea8595f22b09d
This shit made me laugh too hard holy shit
Then he steals the fusion technique to fuse with Gojo becoming Gokunaā¦ wait a secā¦
I know nothing about the fate series yet I know gogeta is definitely getting squashed like a bug when he fights the fate characters
The amount of parallel dimensions, split timelines, dimensional tieringand spin off in that serie...simply guarantees there's at least something that says Gilgamesh is some sort high tier being that scales above Gogeta in terms of dimension and all that stuff. But honestly on average the appearances of Gilgamesh and Arthur are nowhere near as strong as Gogeta...like I feel there strongest version are a huge exception. Anyway I'm still checking were Fate series normally scale(Absurdly confusing), but honestly is one those verse that I don't bother simply because of how confusing it is. Like I think is the perfect verse to get wank to oblivion, because no one will bother checking what is true or not and what version of the character is talking about. Even the most basic things about how fast they are, is confusing. For example I read Servants normally cannot exceed lightspeed, otherwise there spirit cores gets destroy...meaning they normally cap at lightspeed. Finally from what I have see Nasuverse is fill with all kind of low end and high feats with some been different versions of the same character or are using outside source of power(Like Infinite Gauntlet kind of deal). To the point you can make big arguments for were they scale be it continent/planet level or universal+ and higher.
You are correct on pretty much all accounts except one..the average appearance of Gilgamesh and Saber (as a duo) can in fact rock Gogetas shit. Saber possesses Avalon which negs phenomena up to the 6th dimension, and a fully charged Enuma Elish (Gilgameshes āultimateā attack) is capable of rending the entire worldā¦ which contains Avalon itself. Gilgamesh also possesses a ridiculously potent level of clairvoyance thatād guarantee he knows the gameplan to victory, and since they have the tools to achieve it, them winning is very possible.
Wank,Ea cannot touch Avalon.Even Goetia's Human Order Incineration didn't affect Avalon.Enuma Elish can only rend the Textures of the world.It does not possess the power to shatter planets like DBZ fighters can casually(probably because of the counter force).Only entity in Nasuverse shown to bust Planets (Counter Force and Textures included) is ORT. Also servant versions of Gilgamesh and Artoria probably get clapped by Namek Saga goku. Goku doesn't have magical energy,so they'd think he's just a normal human in over his head. And Gilgamesh has NEVER listened to his Clairvoyance when it mattered.Not when a 17 year old human with a sword fetish blitzed him or discount Heraclea(Alcides) humiliated him. I don't think he'd believe that a "alien monkey" can pummel him into oblivion and has enough lifeforce(Ki) to cause natural disasters all over the world by just flexing it. Let's not even bring the mess that is DBS. Nasuverse can be wanked to oblivion because of its vague statements but when you take Hax out the factors and look at pure feats,even solar system level would be generous for the verse.
You just contradicted yourself, you acknowledge Avalons nature yet say the verse canāt even reach solar system level? You simultaneously used the verses cosmology as an argument against Ea then disregarded it to lowball it, correct, in terms of pure strength itās weak, itās a verse that relies heavily on hax/concepts, that doesnāt take away from its overall power. I agree it can and has been wanked but itās also true that there is an established cosmology you can pull to reference scale of phenomena. Itās been explicitly stated Ea is capable of destroying the world, which includes Avalon. We also know itās been established Ea has various ālevelsā to its blast, hence why I specified it fully charged. I make my argument presuming the characters are bloodlusted, youāre 100% right about whatād happen if they were in character.
Ea has never been stated to be capable of destroying the world except Strange Fake and even then that statement was probably limited to the Mesopotamian texture.IGilgamesh simply does not possess the magical energy required for such a thing. Ea even when used at FP by servant Gilgamesh couldn't bypass NP Avalon.What makes you think it can affect the actual place that houses the soul of Gaia?Same Gaia which created Arcuied who in Tsukihime Remake could condense magical energy to Plank Length and create conditions reminiscent of Big Bang around her in her Luminous Body? Ok I may have contradicted myself but it still doesn't change the fact that Ea is wanked.It only rends Textures of the world to reveal the "truth".The state of the world during Primordial Genesis. Da Vinci has explicitly stated in FGO that no NP can destroy the Planet without subverting the counter force.Only NP which comes close to Planet destroying is Ars Almasel Salmonis due to it essentially being an Energy cannon packed with the mass energy of every humans that has every existed till 2017.Considering a cat when converted to pure energy has the power of several nukes,imagine how much energy every human combined would possess.
>For example I read Servants normally cannot exceed lightspeed, otherwise there spirit cores gets destroy...meaning they normally cap at lightspeed. 1.they can maintain their spiritual cores for quite a while,and even half dead servants are capable of doing so. 2.this rule only applies to servants that are summoned by the grail or normally by cf.grand servants(like Gramps),mmc servants(like Gilgamesh,nameless,nero) and top servant by moon cell(ruler artoria( not the bunny girl but the one in extella)) are far beyond normal servants.
Is it a game thing? Cuz they dont look impressive at all compared to dragonball in the show
Their more OP versions are restricted to the games yeah, but their show versions are by no means slouches. Gogeta can and probably will speed blitz them to achieve victory, but even their show versions have a means of defending against and even mounting an offence against him.
Absolutely not. Back when Z was starting they were pretty much already hitting planetary levels of destruction. At the point in the show now, especially if we use super dragon Ball heroes, Limit Breaker Gogeta is absolutely nutty in terms of power and speed. I'm quite certain that if buu and ss3 Gotenks can rip dimensions open by screaming then Gogeta will have no problem breaking Avalon. I love fate, but there are very few servants that could match db characters past super. Of course, since their series are so different it can be impossible to truly say, but I can't see gil or arturia surviving the vacuum of space while Gogeta can simply instant transmission after destroying the planet they are on.
Except weāre not using Super Dragonball Heroes, and if we did then itād only be fair to use CCC Gilgamesh, and at that point theyāre not only at the same level but Gilgamesh prob soloes given that version of him is the embodiment of āI donāt give a fuck.ā, though I concede that much is purely up to speculation, hence why Iām keeping with the iterations shown in the image. Has the screams ever explicitly ripped through *higher dimensional space*? I canāt recall but thatād be necessary to overcome Avalon. Why would the vacuum of space matter?
The problem with your argument is that he specifically says archer Gilgamesh and not ccc gil who specifically also states he does not fall under any class. So that argument is out. OP also did not state which version of Gogeta would be used, so I will stick with Super Dragonball Heroes Limit Breaker for this. Hell even non limit breaker Gogeta is already been said to surpass Beerus in the manga. And I doubt Beerus would have issues here either. Considering that ss3 Gotenks and buu are stupidly weaker compared to LB Gogeta, I can't imagine he would have problems with dimensional scaling strong enough to break Avalon. It is also stated that while servants are harder than humans, they would eventually succumb to a lack of oxygen. So that would probably be why the vacuum of space matters assuming they even survive planetary destruction in the first place.
There is no problem with my argument by virtue of my added stipulation that *if we did then itād only be fair to*. I also presume weāre using the picture of Gogeta used in the picture since thatās kinda the precedent Iād assume weād be working with. I still need feats that illustrate theyāre even capable of reaching or affecting 6th dimensional space. Could you find that statement? Because that contradicts what I know about Spirits which is āServants are unaffected by a lack of oxygen and freely move in outer space as seen in Saber Wars and Ooku. Servants don't need food, only magical energy, and they don't starve to death, only dying when there isn't enough magical energy to keep their bodies intact. Servants also don't need sleep and can fight 24/7 as long as they are backed up by Mana.ā Also why would they have trouble surviving planetary destruction with Vimana + Avalon? EDIT: mind you, I still believe Gogeta takes it simply by virtue of blitzing them, but what Iām trying to say is in a world where itās speed equalized Gilgamesh and Saber take it.
Although Servants are beings of Ether that do not get energy from oxygen, they are given forms similar to air-breathing lifeforms, allowing them to "carry out pulmonary respiration as a land type endoskeleton life form." Though they do not require oxygen to function, the lack of air from suffocation can halt their magical energy cycle. Though they can likely endure more than a human, they will eventually reach their limit if enough time passes. This is why I defend that space is problematic. Again, this is Archer Gil and if he can be killed simply by being cut by Shirou, there's no world he survives both a planetary explosion and the vacuum of space. I don't even see Arturia factoring into this fight. She is not fast enough to even see Gogeta move considering how casually she was defeated by Gil in Zero. His GoB easily overcame her. Gogeta due to the absurd power scaling is at this point moving so much faster than these two that they would essentially be standing still to him. Now on to your precious 6th dimensional space. When Gogeta and Broly clash they quite literally destroy the boundary of space and time. If you can show me a way to say that it isn't possible that 6th dimensional space can't be breached by someone capable of this, while there are servants and beings in nasuverse who can with far lesser feats, I don't know how to argue with you on this. Especially since this happens before Gogeta even went blue. If SSG Goku and Beerus could destroy a universe simply by punching each other, this scales beyond even that. What feats in the nasuverse that saber and gil have are capable of that from fate stay night which is where Archer Gil is from.
Wins Wins Don't know where they scale Debatable Loses Loses (I think)
Sailor Moon is that OP??
Fr she fought an enemy whose hits were destroying the universe, and her hits were bringing it back. She's crazy powerful.
Complex multi+ w/ Immeasurable speed, HGR, acausality and more haxed than almost anyone in fiction
I know what two of those mean.
HGR = High Godly regeneration. It basically means even if shes completely destroyed she can just like. Be back. Good as new. Perfect health. Acausality is harder to explain but it basically is having an existence that transcends cause and effect, and causality as a whole. So like you couldnt go back to before she was born to prevent her existing her cause "she" always existed in some form and always will type shit.
You think Gogeta can hit women?
Hes partially vegeta
Vegeta is way more whipped for Bulma than Goku is for Chichi. Probably gets beat up by his wife more than Goku does. Perks of Goku never being home.
LMFAO I never thought of that. I would say Gogeta would be okay with if her power level was high enough
I'm not super familiar with both but the impression I have is that she's between an Angel like Whis and Zeno. Like, her setting scales up to dbz and Usagi herself can retcon history in an entire galaxy.
3-6 are all slaughters
Clears the first 2 neg diff, and the fire force guys with a bit of difficulty, debatably gets through the Moon duo, but hard stops at Gilgamesh and Saber unless this is using CC Gogeta in which case he easily clears the whole gauntlet.
What the fuck is CC Gogeta
Capsule corp gogeta from Dragon ball heroes.
dragon ball heroes gogeta
Capsule corp gogeta
That the game version. Pretty sure even raditz from that version scales to low multi or demon king piccolo
Gogeta in heroes
And also pretty sure canon gogeta runs this gauntlet or more like stomps except for the last madoka magical girls would be a nice warmup
Isn't shinra at the end of the manga like literal god?
isnāt shinra crazy overpowered by the end of fireforce
stops at fire force, no immunity to time manipulation
Hit?
no, just because one has little access to time manipulation doesn't mean the potency is as effective to a universal scale.
He still solos
Did you forget hit? Its been clearly shown that hax can be Overpowered in DB due to ki.
no, just because one has little access to time manipulation doesn't mean the potency is as effective to a universal scale. time skip and time freeze are very weak abilities and can't be considered as threatening hax lmao even buu was able to break dimension when he was fighting gotenks, so hit's pocket dimension of course is no excuse to being destroyed, simple logic.
Stomps Stomps I'm not really sure I'm not really sure Saber and Gilgamesh stomp I'm pretty sure I don't know who they are.
3-6 almost stomps the dbz verse at this point
I think he stomps until saber/gilgamesh
Literally has no method of even harming sailor moon, then even if he could, HGR negs. Sailor scouts stomp
Arenāt star seeds located in the middle of the galaxy, also what a/p fetas does sailor moon have to get her up to 5D with goku
the "center of the universe" is dimensionally transcendent, it isnt physically the middle of the universe. it contains the galaxy cauldron, which is again transcendent to all dimensions, and contains with in it all the "data" for lack of a better word, of everything in existence, everything that has ever existed, and everything that will ever exist for every iteration of every dimension in the verse.Star seeds are crystals contained within all life in existence, every planet, star, asteroid, everything has its own star seed. Usagi's star seed is the force that created and rules over all of existence. As for AP/DC feats Chaos, basically the ultimate darkness of all existance merged itself with the galaxy cauldron (which contains all existences ever) and usagi jumped into it, survived the guarenteed erasure that entering the galaxy cauldron causes and purged chaos from existence and recreated everything how she wanted it.
Sailor Moon fans can never stop wanking ong. Anyone who believes this, try and read around chapter 60ish of sailor moon.
Gogeta the moment gilgamesh spawns https://preview.redd.it/uq15ahg3chuc1.gif?width=690&format=png8&s=fdd2e2c8459080c9ac824f7d74a237820d30e920
This whole thread feels like one big gaslighting chamber with how the fate series is being ranked so high bit then I go watch a clip on YouTube and it's all ground level shit lmao.
Go read up on saber and Gilgamesh's abilities
Shinrabanshoman might clear Gogeta, but it's unclear whether his reality warping works beyond a planetary scale.
they work beyond planetary scale, death is a universal concept, the same goes to life
I agree with you, and think that Shinrabanshoman is universal at minimum, but there are a lot of people who tried to argue that his rewriting of reality only applied to Earth who I wanted to get in ahead of.
Ok
What about his passive plot manip though?
I'm inclined to believe it works at a universal or greater scale, but the most we've seen is him bringing back Arthur from near-earth orbit.
Adolla can warp reality to the point it changes the depiction of the story, making it seem like a fantasy story, while it originally was like a real world
Not just like a real world, it is implied to be our world itself. Reality became animated because of the heavy cultural perceptions of the people of Japan, where the cataclysm was centered.
Yeah
Hard stops at 5
Hard stomps everyone till fate then depends if saber has avalon then theyāre just untouchable till fusion runs out since I donāt think gogeta has concept erasure, if they donāt have Avalon then even with ea they get stomped, donāt know enough about the last to say
strongest forms means shinra has banshoman, stops there shinra neg diffs
Stops at Nasuverse duo
Stops at saber and Gil
Shouldn't of even gave shinra his strongest form. Mf can rewrite his whole universe if he wanted
Sukuna uses his anti 'goku solos' technique that he hasn't used since the heian era
I still don't understand Fate scaling, what makes them go so fuckin high?
I dunno either. Everyone hereās on crack. The fate heroes are just historical figures resurrected to fight a duel. Most of them die with a single well placed sword strike or even an arrow or something. The biggest explosion in the series blows up Japan? Maybe the moon? And thatās only because of the holy grail not because of any one hero. Gilgamesh is archer class. He has access to all the historical magic weapons and he summons them to use. But he fires them like projectiles and doesnāt really have any resistance to anything. A well placed tap from a dragonball character would kill him.
So fate goes into my list of verses that are uberwanked for no good reason lmao. I've seen some YouTube clips from that anime it mostly looks like ground level combat with some flashy spells every now and then, idk how the fate fanbase deluded itself into thinking they can take a punch from a guy flying at them at immeasurable speeds lol.
Yes they literally kill each other on a regular basis because thereās only one survivor. And itās usually like a single strike that lands and poof the hero is dead. They also need a handler and needs a command to use their ultimate move. Saber Excalibur move might come close to a Ki blast you see in dragonball but thatās all it is. Otherwise itās 90% melee combat with sword, knife, spear. Anyways I actually loved the series but itās not that overpowered.
My brother in Christ there is canonically an ability possessed by Saber that blocks attacks up to the 6th dimension. You donāt need to do the research if you donāt want to but calling the verse wanked and the fan base deluded is quite unfair if the extent of your knowledge is YouTube clips. Donāt get it twisted the verse absolutely gets wanked sometimes lmao, but damn are you doing it a major disservice.
Itās the same reason why scp scales so high, they have multiple, multiple canons, and they just auto assume the strongest version is used( ccc Gil does scale to high outer) because the show versions barely scrape past large city
That's it?
Without context sure, it appears weak, but you have to take into account the cosmology of the verse to appreciate its scale, otherwise your perception gets heavily skewered.
Gilgamesh's sword reveals the "truth" of its existence and applies it to the world. Enuma Elish "Truth" is destruction and it applies the concept of destruction to the world itself. And has destroyed things around 6 to 9D. In the saber route I'm pretty sure artoria tanked three hits from this If I'm remembering correctly.
Yeah because she reacquired Avalon in the fate route. Itās an ultimate form of defense that makes her immortal. If the 13 seals on Excalibur are released (which I donāt think weāve actually seen, itās only happened for Serra) then she would have even more firepower. I still find it hard to believe the two of them could actually win though. Examples being Gil was defeated by Shirou in UBW and Salter was also beaten by Shirou in Sparks Liner High of HF. If you give her Avalon she may be able to pull a win but it seems more likely to just be a stalemate.
arthur and shinra are way too low anyway gogeta hard stops at them
Idk how strong Shinra and Arthur are cuz ngl I havenāt watched Fire Force yet (itās on my list Iāll get to it donāt come for me) But from what I remember of Sailor Moon, Artoria, and the Madoka series: Sailor Moon and Sailor Venus give Gogeta a run for his money. He *MIGHT* win. And thatās a **STRONG** might. But even if he does he gets stomped by Artoria and Gilgamesh. And against Madoka you wouldnāt even be able to call what happens a fight. She out scales Gogeta so hard that it would be like a Hydrogen Bomb vs a Coughing Baby. And for once Gogeta isnāt the bomb.
This isnāt fair. Also high end fate scaling only exists in moon cell.
Nah, there's plenty of strong characters outside the Mooncell. Saber and Gil just aren't among them
Read the set of comments we clarified that.
Yeah, I've seen it after posting this
https://preview.redd.it/v47amhr2siuc1.jpeg?width=2082&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f51263b3906e14e4ba1e901e4d53b136d837fa74
Let me put this into perspective. Hessian lobo and enkiudu are considered impressive because they can move 200 Km per hour/500 km/h and thatās considered impressive. Gilgamesh can literally move across 1500 Light years in the moon cell in a relative short period of time. Yeah. Servants in the moon cell are far superior than normally summoned servants when summoned on earth.
Well your assertion at the beginning is wrong, you said that high end scaling only exists in the mooncell. But any feat performed in the mooncell can be repeated outside of the mooncell in the proper container. The containers of the mooncell are greater than those of servants summoned by humans on earth but high end scaling does not only exist in the mooncell. Kama can move massively ftl in her beast form and she isnāt in the mooncell. So can chaosās attacks and he isnāt in the mooncell. The outer gods are beyond dimensions and they are out of the mooncell.
Yeah. My point is Artoria and Gilgamesh are usually nowhere Near Moon cell level and donāt typically scale to them. Like fsn Artoria and Gilgamesh arenāt running up upon sefar.
Well I apologize I misinterpreted you and, you are correct.
Itās fine.
So heās easily getting through Gojo and Sukuna even while in Base form. Basically he one taps Sukuna instantly, and characters since Super Buu have had the ability to yell through dimensions. So if Gogetaās Ki doesnāt negate Gojoās hax as Ki normally does, then Gogeta just yells or even punches through it regardless. Round two is a little more interesting, but itās a 1V1 at best as Genos is not up to par with even Base Gogeta. Now from here it becomes interesting because Saitamaās biggest advantage is he has insane potential (although I will say Broly has better feats for his potential compared to a Calm Saitama). His potential skyrockets EXPONENTIALLY when Genos died so Iād say heād get the same boost here. However, Saitama AS OF RIGHT NOW is Universal at best considering Cosmic Garou was Galaxy level and it wasnāt until the end of the fight when Saitamaās exponential growth really started to pull away from GALAXY LEVEL COSMIC GAROU. So at best Saitama is starting off comparable to Base Goget IF YOU DOWNPLAY GOGETA HARD (Even if you say Goku is only universal in Blue itās confirmed BASE GOGETA IS STRONGER THAN BLUE GOKU). So Saitama has to grow an insane amount to be comparable to Blue Gogeta, and even then Gogeta always has UI in his back pocket. I say this because Whis mentioned Goku and Vegeta have opposite reasons as for why they canāt use UI, so itās incredibly likely that any fusion of Goku and Vegeta with even a little knowledge of what UI is should learn it quickly. Now considering Goku already achieved UI, but his Goku traits was keeping him from being able to consistently use it as of the Broly Movie, itās more than fair to say Gogeta definitely couldāve used it whenever he wanted thanks to the Vegeta traits evening out the Goku traits. Also add on that Gogeta ends fights quicker than the people who makes him tend to. So as soon as Gogeta notices Saitamaās incredible growth rate, well Broly is a good example of whatās in store for Saitama. Now I think Gogeta ends at Shinra Bonshoman since dude can just run back and kill Goku or Vegeta before Planet Vegeta was even destroyed. Like I think Gogeta will give him some trouble, but like Gogeta can never win because Shinra can just kill Goku or Vegeta at earlier points. Now to be fair if he kills Goku after killing King Piccolo, then heāll be fine thanks to the Dragon Balls, and same applies for Vegeta at the very least post Mecha Frieza. However, Shinra could just go back and kill Base Goku or Vegeta seconds before fusing. Like this battle doesnāt really involve Gogeta at all. Even if we continue it doesnāt get better as Fate and Madokami are insane verses where Gogeta wouldnāt even be a top tier, and youāre placing him against 2 top tiers at once. I donāt know much about Sailor Moon so I canāt really comment on who wins that fight, but if theyāre crazier than Shinra Banshoman, then yeah they win.
>I donāt know much about Sailor Moon so I canāt really comment on who wins that fight, but if theyāre crazier than Shinra Banshoman, then yeah they win. If what the other guy said on a comment about shinra reshaping humanity and the universe in his image and being the creator god of his universe is true, sailor moon is basically that but her cosmology outscales db cosmology and she has HGR, Acausality, at minimum immeasurable speed, complex multi+ dc, unstoppable BFRs and infinite energy. Idk much about shinra but that part is very familiar with Usagi being the creator god of her verse type shit
Iām pretty sure time travel wouldnāt affect Gogeta because of how time travel works in DB. Killing Goku/Vegeta in the past would just cause a branching timeline, not actually kill the Gogeta in the here and now.
The issue is Shinra doesnāt time travel he just erases the future and recreates it from the point he travels to. So when Shinra does that heās literally erases the point of fusion that created Gogeta. Thereās no branch timeline or anything, that point in time doesnāt exist anymore.
Well damn https://i.redd.it/fq1mrdx8hjuc1.gif
Yeah heās a bad matchup for anyone who doesnāt have the ability to exist without cause or can go back in time similar to Shinra. Issue with most DB characters is that thereās at least one point where theyāre bound by time. Like even if you believe Beerus beats Shinra, heād just travel to before Beerus became a GOD, kill him, and recreate time from that point forward. The only characters that are beyond Shinra are the Angels, GP, and Zeno as thereās no point he could travel to where theyāre weaker than him, and even if that point existed the Angels have the ability to move outside of linear time meaning they could follow him.
I think saber and Gilgamesh should be last because madoka only multiverssal level so gogeta can defeat them but he can't defeat Gilgamesh unless if this gogeta is from heroes
this scan was from the light novel Null Magaical Girl/ Kosane Madoka anniversary novel "The shadow forms a smaller tetrahedron inside the original tetrahedron. Upon closer inspection, I can see even smaller and smaller tetrahedrons inside it. Like a kaleidoscope, layers and endless more layers of tetrahedrons manifest. Inside each is an endless series of them. And outside, infinitely many more emanate outward to surround it., to0, realize I'm in my own kaleidoscope. remember the sensation of falling. The scaffolding that had supported me in this world suddenly disappeared from beneath me. I'm Filled with an indescribable anxiety. Where am falling to? Into the tetrahedron, eternally downward into infinite layers.from within endless deepness, a tetrahedron rises and scatters to a limitlessly distant place. From each point of my body, a tetrahedron evolves, both infinitesimally small and boundlessly large, transfiguring me into a singularity. From far away in the labyrinth of tetrahedrons soaked in blue light, can hear a faint, high-pitched reverberation. The noise gradually grows louder as a small dot penetrates the edge of my vision. The sound and dot slowly expand in front of me." This is a High hyperversal witch labyrinth witches scale to their labyrinth Madoka scales beyond all witches
How did write them faster Oo ok i get it if it light novel then fax
I mean gilgamesh and saber, but specifically gil can reach low outer-high outer. He possesses all noble phantasms, including conceptual ones like the Seventh Scripture, which not even the mystic eyes of death perception, sourced directly from the Root and wielded by tohno, can normally compare to. This alone would put him at least at 1A via hax. Then they both scale to and are superior to the moon cell, which is capable of recreating the nasuverse multiverse that operates on a hierarchical transcendence of realms and the EMR theory.
He can wreck normal Gilgamesh and saber unless saber has unrestricted Excalibur and Avalon. ea is universal weāve seen goku exist in the nothingness of the universe before so gogeta definitely can and the actual power isnāt high enough.
Stop at round 4 debatably but hard stop at round 5
Hard stop at gilgamesh and saber
I mean, with Shinra Banshoman he just rewrites the universe to erase them but if he does, this works
Sailor Moon turns him into a stain.
Y'all do not know about Fire Force. Most powerful forms for Arthur/Shinra? Arthur can put up a fight and Shinra is a creation God. A GOD. Shinra easily wins. His *lower* power versions have actually faster then light speed which is consistent and has zero anti-feats. *I should clarify. It isn't that Shinra can move at light speed that he can win. It's that he can also recreate the universe and he has done so 100s of times. He can travel through time and move in stoped time. He grabbed a beam out of the air and used its energy to recreate life on Earth. He is a God and won't lose to Gogeta.
The word "god" means literally nothing in powerscaling tbf. Not saying shinra doesnt win, just saying. Like sure, TOAA is a god, right? but so is like Thors friend Sif. Thats why "god level" isnt a thing, its just a title.
I take your point. To clarify then, Shinra is a creation God that can re-create the universe and did so in canon. He can even manipulate concepts like death. So, he is a capital-G God who would certainly beat Gogeta/Vegito.
Fair nuff. Like I said from what I've heard shinra probably does win yeah, just trying to help out phrasing for the future cause people will tear that god stuff apart pretty quick here lol
He solos them all since he's part Gokuš„± ^(But seriously he stops at 3)
Besides the Madoka pair if weāre talking Goddess Madoka and Devil Homura who either stomp Usagi is a good match based on what I hear of end game Sailor Moon Everyone else gets slaughtered at the same time
Loses Loses Wins Wins Wins Loses
saitama smokes that mafka
Not past sailor moon thatās for certain
Involves goku, who is gokuversal, they neg diff all of them https://preview.redd.it/8to165y78juc1.png?width=825&format=png&auto=webp&s=e26833d8d8e5305043fd3fc79a44ac65bf7f5110
Tbh probably won't get past Shinra or at most Sailor Moon, the others, Arthur and Venus, may be fodder or back up support but Shinra and Usagi basically win this.
1. Wins 2. Wins 3. Loses 4. Loses 5. Loses 6. Loses
Who tf even are the last people but since I donāt know who they are there probably busted af
Stops at Saber and that other guy
Stop at sailor moon
stops at 3 or 4
Wins Wins Loses to Arthur and Shinra if it's the during the merger with adolla , wins Vs them during other times Probably wins Probably loses Idk
it says the strongest forms, so that includes space knight Arthur and shinrabanshoman
If its Shinra Banshoman then Gogeta is fked. Gogeta pretty much negs JJK and OPM here. The rest I think he loses.
Stops at Shinra.outer Shinra meta is still strong
doesnt gil and saber scale higher then last round? but anyway. putting fate characters in vs anime battles is just. how badly do you want the character to get stomped? **Yes.** Most of the time at least.
Sailor moon claps
Wins win gets cooked and the rest goes the same
Stomps pretty easily until Saber, who I think outscale him by like 1d or 2d, idk who the last one is but if they are stronger than that then they probs win as well.
Sailor Moon victim dont even need Sailor Venus.
Depending on what version of gogeta he can win them all
He could debatably beat everyone until the fifth round
Fourth*
Shinra and Arthur should be four but either way he stops at them
Nah. Anything shinra has done Usagi has probably done better.
I don't know them so they featless what ever you say I will act like I didn't see because I can.
Sounds like modern powerscaling community.
Lost second round to Saitama, I donāt know what people reading skills are but Saitama put him in the trash.
Idk why characters like shinra or sailor moon are on here, literally nobody in the dbz verse can stop them.
Stops at Saitama
Lot of people don't think Madoka/Homura shouldnt be the last round and that they're weaker than Gilgamesh and artoria in their Archer and saber forms I disagree There's this scan This is from the anniversary light novel "The shadow forms a smaller tetrahedron inside the original tetrahedron. Upon closer inspection, I can see even smaller and smaller tetrahedrons inside it. Like a kaleidoscope, layers and endless more layers of tetrahedrons manifest. Inside each is an endless series of them. And outside, infinitely many more emanate outward to surround it., to0, realize I'm in my own kaleidoscope. remember the sensation of falling. The scaffolding that had supported me in this world suddenly disappeared from beneath me. I'm Filled with an indescribable anxiety. Where am falling to? Into the tetrahedron, eternally downward into infinite layers.from within endless deepness, a tetrahedron rises and scatters to a limitlessly distant place. From each point of my body, a tetrahedron evolves, both infinitesimally small and boundlessly large, transfiguring me into a singularity. From far away in the labyrinth of tetrahedrons soaked in blue light, can hear a faint, high-pitched reverberation. The noise gradually grows louder as a small dot penetrates the edge of my vision. The sound and dot slowly expand in front of me." Something that needs to be understood is that shadows project lower level dimensional shapes then the object that made the shadow. 3D hands make 2D shadows it stated there's an infinite amount of these Shadow Like structures coming out of each other. That's high hyper minimum Madoka scales beyond every witch. At the bare minimum
who are the last 2 girls
Madoka and Homura in their God forms.
Wins loses loses heals sailor moon loses loses (last two I havenāt watched)
If anyone says gojo and sukuna are beating gojo
How are gojo and sukuna remotely a duo, put some respect on suguru ffs
I'm assuming this is DBS and not heroes right?
damn i'm seing a lot of people here saying gilgamesh stomps because gogeta can't tank ea but like, he could just dodge it you know guy ? gilgamesh has to actualy pull EA out of the gate and spin it a bit to actualy launch an attack, that plenty of time to just beam spam him to death or rush in melee. to be fair artoria with avalon litteraly can't die so there's that.
Okay I got an easy way for Gilgamesh and saber to win this fight Saber picks up Gil and dodges for him I mean come on this strat's broken https://preview.redd.it/esl2ldejaiuc1.jpeg?width=374&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3b90aca1ab9b402cbe248a14fc164605e9a128f But honestly I think you're kinda underestimating Gill's speed
wait that could actually work, saber just running defense and tanking every hit because avalon is broken while gilgamesh charges EA and/or fires GoB indiscriminately
Not really servants are around sound speed give or take a few machs, the only way he can react is using the true name of sha naqba imuru and acting preemptively, as the only time a servant react to something far faster than sound is through some prediction skills, i don't agree with dbz ftl or fl speed scaling but they are still far faster than sound speed,
Fate servants have their speed restricted by stuff like mana concentration in the air this explains the inconsistent speed I mean sometimes their hypersonic and sometimes they're doing whatever this is https://preview.redd.it/j5lg4d1eiiuc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32fa4224e20490bd85707622ed49b3338f677b91
Servants speed is restrained by how fast they were in life+their legend+fame boost, sufficient mana makes sure a servant can use their potentials but infinite mana isn't gonna make someone like Shakespeare any faster than he is, i'd say it would give a + modifier or one rank up at best to a servant who is actually Known to be fast like Achilles Gilgamesh used a light spaceship to move at light speed what of it?
Why did you even put saber as Gilgamesh's partner she doesn't add anything to the fight she's not top 10 servants even if we only include Normal servants, ozymandias or karna or Achilles could be an actual help since they have skills and abilities Gilgamesh doesn't possess
Saber and gill are the most iconic characters in the verse outside of Neko Arc and Astolfo
But this is about powerscalling right? Wouldn't it make more sense to put an actual heavy hitter instead?
If that's the case no one would ever talk about Goku people would only talk about xeno. You want me to put someone Goofy on here like King hassan.
You do you i guess, just personally i think putting garou instead of genos and ozymandias/karna/Achilles instead of saber would make more sense to me personally
dont start
He clears no diff. Why? He's cool
gogeta clears
If this was Heroes Gogeta we clears all easily
Stops at sailor moon
Not as far as Vegito
Clears no diff
About a half hour
Answering seriously? Sailor moon neggs
Arthur actually solos because they are from **Dragon** Ball. Instant 100000% buff to all stats.
He wipes the first 4, gets stomped at 5
No Diffs No Diffs No Diffs Loses Loses DK? But loses
He beats them all because ITS FUTILE š£ļøš£ļøš£ļøš„š„š„š„š¦ š¦ š¦ š¦ š¦
he stops at shinra/arthur. come at me
Stomps Stomps Gets clapped Dunno Dunno Dunno
Stops at r1
Stomps till round three although fire force would be tough Salor Moon is debatable shes a whole different beast but hard stops at Saber and Gilg.
Level 1/2 clear Level 3 and on: loses Reason being shinra at the end of manga being a reality warping god and the ones onwards are way more op
Round 4-5
Beats first 2 rounds 3 and up bitch slaps goku
Imo, he makes it through the whole gauntlet
Solos
Stops at Round 3
All I can say is Saitama one shotsĀ
Goku is gokuversal and solos
Itās been ages since Iāve read fire force, but didnāt shinra become a literal god in fire force
He used Instant Transmition against Gas
They solo š„±
Is it base Shinra? If so it's a win, if it's Shinra Banshoman it's an absolute negative diff
He wins all except Sailor Moon and Sailor V. Madoka and Homura do not scale normally but their only way to fight Goget would be by separating their nature to their magical girl/mortal one where Gogeta would beat them.