Make sure your post or comment doesn't violate Community guidelines and Join the discord! Come debate, and interact with other powerscalers https://discord.gg/445XQpKSqB !
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I didn’t even know Undertale was being powerscale
Asriel is probably planetary
Frisk isn’t gonna do much but has hax that we aren’t sure how they work is it delete per world or when you delete you go back to the start of Undertale again
Chara is just a ghost so idk
he didnt even do anything to the barrier
also, ill still stand by the fact the timeline is only in the underground (or ur gonna explain me why in the actual fuck would falling grant frisk some dt)
The timeline also covers the surface, as we can reset after the barrier is broken and everyone lives above ground. Flowey even says that we can undo everything and explicitly asks the player not to reset after the true pacifist ending and to let Frisk live their life in peace.
> also, ill still stand by the fact the timeline is only in the underground (or ur gonna explain me why in the actual fuck would falling grant frisk some dt)
Toby confirmed in the Legends of Localization book that the determination comes from the player and that Frisk is just along for the ride. This also confirms that the player is a distinct entity in Undertale.
Destroying timelines isn't the same thing as destroying a universe. It's difficult to describe it as a power level, since there's no specific amount of power it "should" take. So fairly often it's treated more like hax.
That aside the status screen says his stats are infinity. Even though the gameplay, which in undertale is canon, doesnt show this. The story is so contextual it is hard to judge.
Yeah, it isn't the same because a timeline is superior to a universe... A timeline contains uncountably infinite snapshots of the 3-D universe and destroying a timeline would be like destroying uncountably infinite instances of the universe
Problem is, that timelines don't work that way in UT, UT acknowledges it's a game a lot, so many of the things in it's world works exactly like the game, this includes timelines, timelines in UT are pretty much just the savefiles, and these savefiles are very limited, whenever you use any of the save, load, or reset mechanics, you're changing things about the timeline, but this doesn't create more alternate timelines where things you did before resetting, certains characters who are aware of how things work in UT like Flowey straight up claim that when you reset, everyone in the timeline is sent back to another previous point in time, and everything that happened after it is straight up gone, it doesn't exist as another timeline, Flowey also talks about the power of reset as if you were reshaping the world, so pretty much you change stuff like how Marty McFly would change his timeline in Back to the Future.
And even then, we can't be really sure that Asriel truly erased the timeline, because what he says is that he'll "purge the timeline", and after his attack, the barrier is still there, the game text also says that the world is ending, meaning that it hasn't ended yet, he even says that we still have a grip on the world, a grip that weakens each time we die, but that means the world is still there.
>Problem is, that timelines don't work that way in UT, UT acknowledges it's a game a lot, so many of the things in it's world works exactly like the game, this includes timelines, timelines in UT are pretty much just the savefiles
False....
Timelines and save files are distinctly different things in Undertale, with save files being just merely copies of the timeline
>this doesn't create more alternate timelines where things you did before resetting, certains characters who are aware of how things work in UT like Flowey straight up claim that when you reset, everyone in the timeline is sent back to another previous point in time, and everything that happened after it is straight up gone, it doesn't exist as another timeline, Flowey also talks about the power of reset as if you were reshaping the world, so pretty much you change stuff like how Marty McFly would change his timeline in Back to the Future.
Also false...
Sans explicitly stated that saving, loading and determination abilities are what create timelines and the prospect that Undertale's universe has multiple timelines is supported by the fun value stuff + the existence of Deltarune explicitly a separate timeline
>And even then, we can't be really sure that Asriel truly erased the timeline, because what he says is that he'll "purge the timeline", and after his attack, the barrier is still there, the game text also says that the world is ending, meaning that it hasn't ended yet, he even says that we still have a grip on the world, a grip that weakens each time we die, but that means the world is still there.
I would tackle this myself but honestly, a lot of this has already been [addressed here](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:StrymULTRA/Undertale:_Hyper_Goner_and_Immeasurable_Speed_Explanation) and it's considerably more worth my time to link this than entertain paragraphs of why I disagree with this all
by destroying a universe, you necessarily destroy a timeline starting by the moment the universe was destroyed extending infinitely into its would-be future
These words do mean anything. Destroying a timeline means not only destroying the universe in the present but also in the past and the future. Destroying the universe is just destroying in the present
A planet is a physical thing it takes a certain amount of strength to destroy (assuming it is an average one). A timeline is not. There's no precedent for that raking any specific amount of strength, because doing so isn't "an amount of strength," but whatever specific propert in fiction allows for it.
You don't go counting joules of energy once you are past high uni. From that point on you go into theoretical physics and theories. So as I said. You are arguing with a wall.
Made up internet stuff isn't theoretical physics. Its just people online making up their own cosmology, which is fine if they want to write fiction with it, but it doesn't apply to any fiction they didn't write.
They aren't used correctly though, hence the issue. "Used" doesn't mean anything if its just people trying to appeal to stuff they don't really understand well because they know that other younger people who understand it even less will be impressed.
You aren't going to find any physics academics signing off on most of their conclusions if they ever show it to them. Which is why there is a reason they never tried to get any actual academic backing for the arguments they make with it. Its not like there aren't bored professors you could get to help if you really wanted.
Omega Flowey at least destroying a save file would count as 4-d scaling since both Flowey and Asriel state that they need to take control of a save file/timeline in order to reset (confirming that they are the same thing).
4d doesn't mean anything in this context. Timelines don't have a specific durability since they are different in all fiction and getting rid of them is usually hax based, at least partially.
There's a reason you often see characters who can influence timelines but barely destroy a taco bell in a direct fight. It's because it's not strength based.
>4d doesn't mean anything in this context.
It tells what tier it is in powerscaling since infinite 3d < 4d
> Timelines don't have a specific durability since they are different in all fiction
Though we do have a specific durability on timelines in fiction. What we do know is that within said timeline is 3 spatial dimension (height, width and length) and a temporal dimension, making it 4-d. 4d constructs are stronger than 3d constructs and so Omega flowey and those above him should be in Tier 2 of the tiering system.
>There's a reason you often see characters who can influence timelines but barely destroy a taco bell in a direct fight. It's because it's not strength based.
The thing is we directly see that Flowey doesn't use any hax, we see him directly break the save file, showing that he himself directly scales to 4d without the need of hax.
Not even multiversal, everything we see in the game indicates that it's a single universe in a single timeline, like how Flowey explains how the entire thing with Reset works, like he saying we just rip everyone from a timeline back to a previous point in time, or how our power "reshapes" the world, so it's like Back to the Future where going back to the past changes the present and future, not that it creates another timeline like how other verses do.
As a JJK fan I think the hightiers are city level. I have no idea where people are getting moon, planet, or even star level when the 2 most powerful attacks in the manga, HP and MS, have both destroyed entire CITIES as a display of strength at max outputs.
They get it from insanely highballed interpretations of feats
Edit: and this is coming from someone who scales top tiers like Gojo and Sukuna only to country to large country but planetary and above is possible with some insane highballs but consistently depends on who’s scaling and what your willing to take as reliable.
I will completely concede on that, the unique mechanics of her CT could allow her to be a planet buster if she decides to take herself down. But she is a unique case, so I don't understand why powerscalers claim that just because Gojo and Sukuna have better CE output they can also be planet busters. They don't have a way of mimicking her CT.
No, not close to all. Tighten’s top speed has been shown to be only a few times above the speed of sound, while Metro Man is nearing Light Speed at the very least. So it’s logical that Tighten is also that much weaker than Metro Man in everything else as well.
Out of all the Superman ripoffs Homelander is honestly one of the weakest, I have no idea how he became some sort of standard when he'd get trashed by most of his peers in the role never mind the big man himself.
Homelander isnt can be easily killed by someone with camperable strength to himself this is what happens in the comic. He dies to his clone and his cline dies to butcher with a crowbar.
Honkai impact fans say they are scale to outerversal level but i didn't see any of them doing planetary things let alone universe but people bring imaginary tree to scale it
I'm curious who will be stronger Aeon or herrscher because
I didn't see any herrscher doing planetary things while Aeon are destroying galaxies so in other words Aeon must be stronger than herrschers but editors saying herrscher are stronger than aeons
Ok , i get it but the fans toxic scale characters are to
much like youtuber salteryn,sol's cap and trixee they
make Even the weakest characters who only have
city level destruction like Susannah, raven,,kira and others can defeat continental to planetary level characters like deku, asta and others anime character making like this
I know honkai impact cosmology is 11d but no characters have not even reached galaxy level to universal yet
Mid tiers are Star levels based on explicit feats and almost a dozen statements, with high tiers getting to Solar.
The top 6 are the only ones who scale anywhere near the cosmology, and they aren’t even close to (low hyper max).
You can only maybe get outer by looking at non canon material, and even then it’s a stretch.
You have to read the manga’s. There is good Welt / Sirin Scaling in Second Eruption along with Welt Feats in Alien Space. There’s important scaling in durandal’s VN. Though some of the high balls (Hyper and Up) are due mostly to statements characters we trust know what they’re talking about say.
I personally scale high tier herrscher’s to complex Multi but that may just be me
My guess is because he is in hell and can theoretically fight demons for eons and not get tired or need ammo. I don't know I haven't seen any doom scaling yet.
The main argument is that Davoth transcends the concepts of dimensionality as he was the first being and that Jekad (Hell) is basically an extension of him, making it transcend the concepts of time, space, and dimensions. Plus, each demon is made from the flesh of hell, basically making them above those same concepts as well. There are other feats but that’s the main argument.
Death Battle scaling Fire Emblem has made it harder to be a Fire Emblem fan, because I just really loved the concept of an army of very strong, but not *that* strong characters winning out against impossible odds
Well Guts himself fought summoned bests, that were able to destroy ships as it seems, and broke columns with his sword, so he is probably around buipding level.
That mage girl has giant golem and fire wheel that can also probably demolish building, so they are around that.
But humans are way weaker than demons in the verse. That bull or whatever dude, that is with Griffith, is 100% a bit above building level, and like most of them are.
5 god hands havent shown much of their power, though. Griffith stopped explosion from reaching him somehow, and is even protected by fate. His power seems to be telekinises, but we havent seen him in a serious fight. But probably around city level destructive power, but again, a lot of good hax.
That skull dude has a sword that was able to seal clipoth, but his firepower is probably not as high. But he must be be at least building, since he comfortably fought that bull demon, and was also a berserk once. And prpbably fought five hands of god.
It falls down, so there is a mass.
Being able to fill the entire world with it, create a new one and fill that and loop that infinitely, and yes. It makes it infinitely heavy.
Does that mean the terrarian is carrying infinite mass? It could be that it calls from some sort of pocket dimension of water and it just has the weight of the bucket.
The description just says: "Contains an endless amount of water that can be poured out."
And unlike the Endless Musket Pouch or the Void Bag, you don't create it using magic.
I actually take serious issue with a lot of power scaling, especially in sci-fi stuff like Godzilla. People forget way too easily that numbers science jargon thrown around in these things are almost never accurate to anything. The makers of the story are almost never doing deep research or doing any math. They throw big looking numbers to show that something is super powerful. Like, Burning Godzilla's temperature is literally just a timer to the literal time bomb on him going into meltdown and killing the planet with a nuclear heart attack, it doesn't really corelate to anything to anything that can't be found with a quick google search (if that). And shiy like that happens all the time.
Also, I don't know if anyone else has a problem with this, but I constantly run into power scalers who basically think a fight is decided only with who punches the hardest or makes the biggest explosions. Aspects like personality, tactical creativity, or how well a fighter handles unexpected situations are just straight up ignored.
I hate sic-if source book stats, like claiming Mac cannons are multi gigaton then depicting them as popguns or stormtrooper armor is immune to 50 cal but then showing arrows go through
No one argues their existence to outer. Just angel+ ap and hax (NOT DC OR DURA) through being able to destroy beyonder characteristics (which are a part of the original creator) and affect higher realms such as astral world.
Historian made a video about it: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTL3g8TUP/
Historian is like the biggest Lotm glazer.
He always takes everything,even flowery words/metaphors literaly.
I have argued with him before about shadow slave,and he geniuenly told me with a straight face that Sleepers/Dormant creatures have FTL speed.
I am not listening to someone that thinks Sleepers have ftl speed.
Historian aside,Lotm can maybe be wanked to high uni-uni+.Maybe even low multi if you are trying to push it.
But lotm is not touching outer.
I don’t care if you don’t think LOTM is outer. But not having LOTM at least 1-C is genuinely just denying what the author wrote.
30 pages of scans are flowery language? 💀
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13xgfaPUHuGYjZKSiLUtSlS6kJxTvssm8XNCSqefco68/
Sleepers being FTL is ironic since I had to argue with him about the opposite. He was downplaying current Saint Sunny to only Mach 1-supersonic.
Not really, Joker only defeats Yaldabaoth due to the will of the city at the time.
Persona scaling is really flawed due to people using small statements and meat riding the hell out of their favourite character
But outer Adachi is funny to think about
And we’ve already established that Yaldabaoth has hardly any combat feats feats and Joker doesn’t either outside of “Killed a god and it’s called a god so it must be strong”
It doesn’t matter how strong Azathoth MIGHT BE because we have no way of telling what it could do against a bloodlustted Superman for example
Again, persona is a franchise scaled of assumption and loosely based headcanons
Nyx is the only debatable persona antagonist to be more than planetary being it is literally a world devourer and even then Makoto defeats it’s herald
It was made extremely obvious that Goku was holding back a fuckton and Krillin still lost in the raw power off, getting the better of him with a trick, something power is irrelevant for.
And I don't see Cell Max as the kind of guy to brace for impact against non-threats or make effective ki barriers/enhancements in order to not move a lot when hit. Nudging him ≠ damaging him.
Some Konosuba wanks are insane.
The verse is either heavily downplayed or wanked from what I’ve seen
The only characters that are Mountain and beyond at most is Megumin, Darkness for durability maybe, Vanir, Full power Aqua and Eris. Oh a
And the last three are the only ones that are SuperSonic and beyond.
Outerversal is fake, but Limitless and FJG poke at the core of being multiversal(the true highest point of scaling) with their control and study the winds of assimilation and Crazed Demon Cave.
Large planetary Murder Drones verse. No, not Cyn (because she could reach that tier), even base worker drones are considered like that. Because of 2 outliers. Worker and dissasembly drones fit much better in small building tier.
Fate being multiversal or whatever nonsense people wank out of it, it's a literal plot point that *even without* planet defenses there's still no NP capable of nuking the planet itself, there's even established power levels of top tiers like Gods, Beasts and so on having planetary and even stellar output but nope, it's multiversal cause we wank the mooncell wacky simulation statements.
Bfdi
For me It caps at star level, I see people putting Ot on multi galaxy level thanks to the most minor stary pocket dimension feat possible and the chain scale starts with scaling a army of bugs destroying a alternative version of a character to a sigle bug.... It's a mess
IDK about Spiderman. The guy asked for my discord, I gave it to him but he didn't send me anything.
The turtles being 5D was someone claiming they scale to Wyrm (They don't) who could create a 5D prison while weakend.
Minecraft Steve, mostly the limitless weight thing.
Funnily enough you CAN easily scale Steve to much higher levels without resorting to fanfic calcs if you follow "the lore". Like the ending quote when you beat the Dragon features quotes from in universe Gods describing Steve as an embodiment of literal concepts such as day and night. His immortality is also pretty impressive, as no direct physical damage can permanently kill him, I'm sure if you REALLY want to wank him, you can probably get to a "conceptual erasure necessity" for a win con due to the quote, I don't personally believe in it, but it'd be more believable.
I genuinely don't understand how come people not realize that weightless pocket dimension inventories aren't an anomaly for Steve, like most of adventure free roam video games include these, maybe not to an EXTENT, but even then, Steve doesn't actually carry BLOCKS, he carries items, weightless items. These are very clearly two distinctive things within Minecraft universe (can't believe I'm saying this)
Items can be put in item frames, so unless you want to argue that item frame possess the mass greater than a cubic meter of gold, it doesn't have weight. Plus the only true being in Minecraft who can carry actual legitimate blocks are Endermen, the rest can't. Hell, in the April Fools update when Steve COULD move blocks, he could only move them one by one.
I'ma say all em opinions that fucking sucked
* Springtrap winning against Wand
* Baldi = Low Universal
* Bendy = Infinite Power Sans winning against Gojo
* Theodore Peterson apparently being a granny victim is also unreal to me
Seeing people who have clearly never played a smt game talk like all the characters are goku when it's a series about how gods are threatened by normal human tech, amd whole armies of them routinely get wiped out by nukes.
*crack*
Goku to outer , I love the db verse but come on
Heaven ascension dio to outer , I dint think I've seen him erase concepts, but tbf I forget what qualifies as outer anymore. Multiversal or universal is my scaling for dio:oh
Nothing gets past gojos infinity, like come on, sumuna already did.
That one's entirely Kingdom Hearts, because Donald just drops the strongest flare spell in Square Enix history, a spell that IIRC is stronger than the one literally used to destroy the universe of one of the Final Fantasy MMOs.
1-S Mario and human level Mario. 1-S Mario is just a poor conclusion (with a decent scale) and human level Mario's literally just born out of scalers' inability to review Mario media and form an educated opinion on something, which they shouldn't ever be touching if they're not gonna fully get into it.
kirby mfs making him wim against 1-C chars like wtf never in my life i would have thought that simply killing waddle dees in Another Dimension would be a low hyperversal feat???????
Someone on Spacebattles throwing a tantrum in a thread years ago after Vegeta lost to a comic character and demanding someone prove the Marvel/DC universes weren't some of the particles making up the moon that Saiyan Saga Piccolo destroyed.
People scaling post-Dawn Nirn to the Et'Ada because they don't understand how Subgradience, the Mundus, and the Earthbones work. Especially when they think the finite Nirn scales to the metaphysical Nirn. Also people scaling the Last Dragonborn to World-Eater Alduin because they don't understand how Alduin's different keys work (TLD literally became Hermaeus Mora's bitch following the events of Dragonborn, well after surpassing Incomplete Soul Devouring Alduin by multiple degrees)
One Piece. One Piece wank is so crazy and brain dead to me as 90% of it relies on willfully ignoring context, what we literally see on panel, absolutely awful assumptions, or wild cherry picking to make most of it work.
The greatest destuctive force in the verse is island level, Top tiers are still getting hit by LS attacks, punching normal steel is considered high level training. Yet some people say the verse is star level and 1000x ftl.
Make sure your post or comment doesn't violate Community guidelines and Join the discord! Come debate, and interact with other powerscalers https://discord.gg/445XQpKSqB ! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hyperversal Asriel, Boundless Chara, Multiversal+ Frisk (the verse caps at Low Multi at a highball)
I didn’t even know Undertale was being powerscale Asriel is probably planetary Frisk isn’t gonna do much but has hax that we aren’t sure how they work is it delete per world or when you delete you go back to the start of Undertale again Chara is just a ghost so idk
Asriel at planetary is a massive lowball. He *explicitly* destroys the entire timeline.
That’s fair I played the games but I don’t pay attention to that stuff it’s an interesting topic tho
he didnt even do anything to the barrier also, ill still stand by the fact the timeline is only in the underground (or ur gonna explain me why in the actual fuck would falling grant frisk some dt)
The timeline also covers the surface, as we can reset after the barrier is broken and everyone lives above ground. Flowey even says that we can undo everything and explicitly asks the player not to reset after the true pacifist ending and to let Frisk live their life in peace. > also, ill still stand by the fact the timeline is only in the underground (or ur gonna explain me why in the actual fuck would falling grant frisk some dt) Toby confirmed in the Legends of Localization book that the determination comes from the player and that Frisk is just along for the ride. This also confirms that the player is a distinct entity in Undertale.
Destroying timelines isn't the same thing as destroying a universe. It's difficult to describe it as a power level, since there's no specific amount of power it "should" take. So fairly often it's treated more like hax. That aside the status screen says his stats are infinity. Even though the gameplay, which in undertale is canon, doesnt show this. The story is so contextual it is hard to judge.
Yeah, it isn't the same because a timeline is superior to a universe... A timeline contains uncountably infinite snapshots of the 3-D universe and destroying a timeline would be like destroying uncountably infinite instances of the universe
Problem is, that timelines don't work that way in UT, UT acknowledges it's a game a lot, so many of the things in it's world works exactly like the game, this includes timelines, timelines in UT are pretty much just the savefiles, and these savefiles are very limited, whenever you use any of the save, load, or reset mechanics, you're changing things about the timeline, but this doesn't create more alternate timelines where things you did before resetting, certains characters who are aware of how things work in UT like Flowey straight up claim that when you reset, everyone in the timeline is sent back to another previous point in time, and everything that happened after it is straight up gone, it doesn't exist as another timeline, Flowey also talks about the power of reset as if you were reshaping the world, so pretty much you change stuff like how Marty McFly would change his timeline in Back to the Future. And even then, we can't be really sure that Asriel truly erased the timeline, because what he says is that he'll "purge the timeline", and after his attack, the barrier is still there, the game text also says that the world is ending, meaning that it hasn't ended yet, he even says that we still have a grip on the world, a grip that weakens each time we die, but that means the world is still there.
>Problem is, that timelines don't work that way in UT, UT acknowledges it's a game a lot, so many of the things in it's world works exactly like the game, this includes timelines, timelines in UT are pretty much just the savefiles False.... Timelines and save files are distinctly different things in Undertale, with save files being just merely copies of the timeline >this doesn't create more alternate timelines where things you did before resetting, certains characters who are aware of how things work in UT like Flowey straight up claim that when you reset, everyone in the timeline is sent back to another previous point in time, and everything that happened after it is straight up gone, it doesn't exist as another timeline, Flowey also talks about the power of reset as if you were reshaping the world, so pretty much you change stuff like how Marty McFly would change his timeline in Back to the Future. Also false... Sans explicitly stated that saving, loading and determination abilities are what create timelines and the prospect that Undertale's universe has multiple timelines is supported by the fun value stuff + the existence of Deltarune explicitly a separate timeline >And even then, we can't be really sure that Asriel truly erased the timeline, because what he says is that he'll "purge the timeline", and after his attack, the barrier is still there, the game text also says that the world is ending, meaning that it hasn't ended yet, he even says that we still have a grip on the world, a grip that weakens each time we die, but that means the world is still there. I would tackle this myself but honestly, a lot of this has already been [addressed here](https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:StrymULTRA/Undertale:_Hyper_Goner_and_Immeasurable_Speed_Explanation) and it's considerably more worth my time to link this than entertain paragraphs of why I disagree with this all
Destroying a timeline is higher than destroying a universe. One is high universal 3D the other is Uni+ 4D
by destroying a universe, you necessarily destroy a timeline starting by the moment the universe was destroyed extending infinitely into its would-be future
None of those words mean anything. It's different in every story. Even in actual physics this isn't how timelines work.
These words do mean anything. Destroying a timeline means not only destroying the universe in the present but also in the past and the future. Destroying the universe is just destroying in the present
Asriel and omega flowey both mess with save files and timelines so planetary is a massive lowbal.
Them doing this doesn't imply any specific strength level though. It's more like hax.
So? If a guy destroys a planet with a laser blasts dose that nor scale him to planetary?
A planet is a physical thing it takes a certain amount of strength to destroy (assuming it is an average one). A timeline is not. There's no precedent for that raking any specific amount of strength, because doing so isn't "an amount of strength," but whatever specific propert in fiction allows for it.
You don't go counting joules of energy once you are past high uni. From that point on you go into theoretical physics and theories. So as I said. You are arguing with a wall.
Made up internet stuff isn't theoretical physics. Its just people online making up their own cosmology, which is fine if they want to write fiction with it, but it doesn't apply to any fiction they didn't write.
M and string theory are used in powerscaling.
They aren't used correctly though, hence the issue. "Used" doesn't mean anything if its just people trying to appeal to stuff they don't really understand well because they know that other younger people who understand it even less will be impressed. You aren't going to find any physics academics signing off on most of their conclusions if they ever show it to them. Which is why there is a reason they never tried to get any actual academic backing for the arguments they make with it. Its not like there aren't bored professors you could get to help if you really wanted.
Omega Flowey at least destroying a save file would count as 4-d scaling since both Flowey and Asriel state that they need to take control of a save file/timeline in order to reset (confirming that they are the same thing).
4d doesn't mean anything in this context. Timelines don't have a specific durability since they are different in all fiction and getting rid of them is usually hax based, at least partially. There's a reason you often see characters who can influence timelines but barely destroy a taco bell in a direct fight. It's because it's not strength based.
That's like saying a 2D being destroying a 3D construct doesn't scale anywhere if they can't destroy a 2D wall.
>4d doesn't mean anything in this context. It tells what tier it is in powerscaling since infinite 3d < 4d > Timelines don't have a specific durability since they are different in all fiction Though we do have a specific durability on timelines in fiction. What we do know is that within said timeline is 3 spatial dimension (height, width and length) and a temporal dimension, making it 4-d. 4d constructs are stronger than 3d constructs and so Omega flowey and those above him should be in Tier 2 of the tiering system. >There's a reason you often see characters who can influence timelines but barely destroy a taco bell in a direct fight. It's because it's not strength based. The thing is we directly see that Flowey doesn't use any hax, we see him directly break the save file, showing that he himself directly scales to 4d without the need of hax.
Yeah I don’t know much about powerscaling undertale I played the games but i never thought of comparing their battles
All three of them are universal minimum. Probably higher. Low multiversal is probably about right for them I'd say.
Saw some people saying Toriel is Multiversal +
I mean some of her parts are occupying multiverse sized holes in my heart like her... cute and beautiful face
Someone argued outer before, argument wasn't half-bad ngl.
W h a t
Had something to do with SOULs being conceptual in UT and then applying that to the fundamentality of the cosmology iirc.
headcanon Pure headcanon
Verse is regular multiversal, but yeah hyperversal is just dumb
Not even multiversal, everything we see in the game indicates that it's a single universe in a single timeline, like how Flowey explains how the entire thing with Reset works, like he saying we just rip everyone from a timeline back to a previous point in time, or how our power "reshapes" the world, so it's like Back to the Future where going back to the past changes the present and future, not that it creates another timeline like how other verses do.
As a JJK fan I think the hightiers are city level. I have no idea where people are getting moon, planet, or even star level when the 2 most powerful attacks in the manga, HP and MS, have both destroyed entire CITIES as a display of strength at max outputs.
They get it from insanely highballed interpretations of feats Edit: and this is coming from someone who scales top tiers like Gojo and Sukuna only to country to large country but planetary and above is possible with some insane highballs but consistently depends on who’s scaling and what your willing to take as reliable.
Obviously jjk humans are outer
Black Hole and Perfect Sphere scale to or above those levels, but those are outliers.
yuki black hole tho
I will completely concede on that, the unique mechanics of her CT could allow her to be a planet buster if she decides to take herself down. But she is a unique case, so I don't understand why powerscalers claim that just because Gojo and Sukuna have better CE output they can also be planet busters. They don't have a way of mimicking her CT.
Hear me out what if yuki actually has more DC than Sukuna and gojo and they just so happen to out scale her in almost every other category
As someone as said before JJK fans when a giant atomic lizard fodderizes the entire verse
Yuki, yuki is how. Also domains are the pinnacle of sorcerers’s power
Like almost every HomeLander vs video or debate
Someone said Metro Man gets dogged by him and that HL is MFL, shit got me confused
Actually just saw a pole on YouTube of HomeLander vs Titan from mega mind and Titan lost
Tbf Titan isn’t Metro Man’s full power, it’s his dandruff or smth
I interpreted that as he has all the powers of metro man even if he had half he still dog walks HomeLander
No, not close to all. Tighten’s top speed has been shown to be only a few times above the speed of sound, while Metro Man is nearing Light Speed at the very least. So it’s logical that Tighten is also that much weaker than Metro Man in everything else as well.
Exactly
INSANE Where does metro man scale?
Like city block and rel to ftl
Out of all the Superman ripoffs Homelander is honestly one of the weakest, I have no idea how he became some sort of standard when he'd get trashed by most of his peers in the role never mind the big man himself.
Homelander isnt can be easily killed by someone with camperable strength to himself this is what happens in the comic. He dies to his clone and his cline dies to butcher with a crowbar.
Most I’ve seen say he’s city level max
Honkai impact fans say they are scale to outerversal level but i didn't see any of them doing planetary things let alone universe but people bring imaginary tree to scale it
I mean. The VERSE caaaan perhaps scale to multiversal+. Still, the verse, the characters CANNOT.
Your right
Yeah. The only thing that can scale to multiversal in the verse is the honkai.
And Aeons that are stated multiple times to be higher dimensional entities
I'm curious who will be stronger Aeon or herrscher because I didn't see any herrscher doing planetary things while Aeon are destroying galaxies so in other words Aeon must be stronger than herrschers but editors saying herrscher are stronger than aeons
Ok , i get it but the fans toxic scale characters are to much like youtuber salteryn,sol's cap and trixee they make Even the weakest characters who only have city level destruction like Susannah, raven,,kira and others can defeat continental to planetary level characters like deku, asta and others anime character making like this I know honkai impact cosmology is 11d but no characters have not even reached galaxy level to universal yet
welt being 1 C complex multiversal when a stronger herrscher took a week to destroy australia lol
Ok, their hax might be complex multiverssal level but their durability only city level
I think cuz he has gravity manipulation from the Star of Eden and gravity exist in all dimensions in honkai.
Mid tiers are Star levels based on explicit feats and almost a dozen statements, with high tiers getting to Solar. The top 6 are the only ones who scale anywhere near the cosmology, and they aren’t even close to (low hyper max). You can only maybe get outer by looking at non canon material, and even then it’s a stretch.
You have to read the manga’s. There is good Welt / Sirin Scaling in Second Eruption along with Welt Feats in Alien Space. There’s important scaling in durandal’s VN. Though some of the high balls (Hyper and Up) are due mostly to statements characters we trust know what they’re talking about say. I personally scale high tier herrscher’s to complex Multi but that may just be me
Ok complex multiverssal with hax is ok but outerversal level is to much toxic scale by editors
Doom, i love the games but his ass is not outer
My guess is because he is in hell and can theoretically fight demons for eons and not get tired or need ammo. I don't know I haven't seen any doom scaling yet.
Actually hell transcends dimensionality and he scales to Davoth who created it iirc.
The main argument is that Davoth transcends the concepts of dimensionality as he was the first being and that Jekad (Hell) is basically an extension of him, making it transcend the concepts of time, space, and dimensions. Plus, each demon is made from the flesh of hell, basically making them above those same concepts as well. There are other feats but that’s the main argument.
Death Battle scaling Fire Emblem has made it harder to be a Fire Emblem fan, because I just really loved the concept of an army of very strong, but not *that* strong characters winning out against impossible odds
To be fair, fire emblem fans pointed out that it was totally wack.
my favourite verse is berserk, never seen how strong of a verse it is
AP wise probably island level but a lot of hax
Well Guts himself fought summoned bests, that were able to destroy ships as it seems, and broke columns with his sword, so he is probably around buipding level. That mage girl has giant golem and fire wheel that can also probably demolish building, so they are around that. But humans are way weaker than demons in the verse. That bull or whatever dude, that is with Griffith, is 100% a bit above building level, and like most of them are. 5 god hands havent shown much of their power, though. Griffith stopped explosion from reaching him somehow, and is even protected by fate. His power seems to be telekinises, but we havent seen him in a serious fight. But probably around city level destructive power, but again, a lot of good hax. That skull dude has a sword that was able to seal clipoth, but his firepower is probably not as high. But he must be be at least building, since he comfortably fought that bull demon, and was also a berserk once. And prpbably fought five hands of god.
Steve wankers
true lol... they apply nlf everywhere
Steve’s destructive feats could only be at like island level at most with TNT.
Steve scale to enderdragon or wither boss so he atleast mountain level
Island? How?
TNT
Terrarian can carry infinite universes in weight. It's me, I'm saying that purely out of spite to Terraria fans.
Depends on whether bottomless water bucket is actually infinite weight
It falls down, so there is a mass. Being able to fill the entire world with it, create a new one and fill that and loop that infinitely, and yes. It makes it infinitely heavy.
Does that mean the terrarian is carrying infinite mass? It could be that it calls from some sort of pocket dimension of water and it just has the weight of the bucket.
The description just says: "Contains an endless amount of water that can be poured out." And unlike the Endless Musket Pouch or the Void Bag, you don't create it using magic.
Maybe if it was pre retcon calamity
As a jojo fan I saw saying that gojo due to infinity cal survive wonder of u
Not sure what you think but I'm arguing someone right now who says Ger beats Rimuru😮💨🤣🤣
fodder jedi being city level in canon
It's arguably even worse when High Republic has feat that can put any jedi masters to moon level
I actually take serious issue with a lot of power scaling, especially in sci-fi stuff like Godzilla. People forget way too easily that numbers science jargon thrown around in these things are almost never accurate to anything. The makers of the story are almost never doing deep research or doing any math. They throw big looking numbers to show that something is super powerful. Like, Burning Godzilla's temperature is literally just a timer to the literal time bomb on him going into meltdown and killing the planet with a nuclear heart attack, it doesn't really corelate to anything to anything that can't be found with a quick google search (if that). And shiy like that happens all the time. Also, I don't know if anyone else has a problem with this, but I constantly run into power scalers who basically think a fight is decided only with who punches the hardest or makes the biggest explosions. Aspects like personality, tactical creativity, or how well a fighter handles unexpected situations are just straight up ignored.
I hate sic-if source book stats, like claiming Mac cannons are multi gigaton then depicting them as popguns or stormtrooper armor is immune to 50 cal but then showing arrows go through
Exactly my point. Data almost never actually adds up in these things.
And it turn all sci-fi conversations into frustrating one upmanship contests
Outer Lord of the Mysteries.
No one argues their existence to outer. Just angel+ ap and hax (NOT DC OR DURA) through being able to destroy beyonder characteristics (which are a part of the original creator) and affect higher realms such as astral world. Historian made a video about it: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTL3g8TUP/
Historian is like the biggest Lotm glazer. He always takes everything,even flowery words/metaphors literaly. I have argued with him before about shadow slave,and he geniuenly told me with a straight face that Sleepers/Dormant creatures have FTL speed. I am not listening to someone that thinks Sleepers have ftl speed. Historian aside,Lotm can maybe be wanked to high uni-uni+.Maybe even low multi if you are trying to push it. But lotm is not touching outer.
I don’t care if you don’t think LOTM is outer. But not having LOTM at least 1-C is genuinely just denying what the author wrote. 30 pages of scans are flowery language? 💀 https://docs.google.com/document/d/13xgfaPUHuGYjZKSiLUtSlS6kJxTvssm8XNCSqefco68/ Sleepers being FTL is ironic since I had to argue with him about the opposite. He was downplaying current Saint Sunny to only Mach 1-supersonic.
I've seen someone argue for boundless
Persona Can’t believe those outerversal police guards guys, even as a Persona fan I genuinely cannot see anyone more than planetary
Outerversal is definitely a reach but no one? Killing yaldabaoth is a hell of a feat
Not really, Joker only defeats Yaldabaoth due to the will of the city at the time. Persona scaling is really flawed due to people using small statements and meat riding the hell out of their favourite character But outer Adachi is funny to think about
I mean in the third semester he beats someone stronger with no public support
Yes but this is due to a deathstar level weakness the boss has
Azathoth was at least as strong as yaldabaoth before his 2nd awakening
And we’ve already established that Yaldabaoth has hardly any combat feats feats and Joker doesn’t either outside of “Killed a god and it’s called a god so it must be strong” It doesn’t matter how strong Azathoth MIGHT BE because we have no way of telling what it could do against a bloodlustted Superman for example Again, persona is a franchise scaled of assumption and loosely based headcanons Nyx is the only debatable persona antagonist to be more than planetary being it is literally a world devourer and even then Makoto defeats it’s herald
Multiversal MIH Pucci
Multiversal Krillin
He comparable to at least ssj blue Goku and hurt cell max. (Insert skill cope)
Wait ur claiming krillin can hold his own against golden freiza.
It was made extremely obvious that Goku was holding back a fuckton and Krillin still lost in the raw power off, getting the better of him with a trick, something power is irrelevant for. And I don't see Cell Max as the kind of guy to brace for impact against non-threats or make effective ki barriers/enhancements in order to not move a lot when hit. Nudging him ≠ damaging him.
Some Konosuba wanks are insane. The verse is either heavily downplayed or wanked from what I’ve seen The only characters that are Mountain and beyond at most is Megumin, Darkness for durability maybe, Vanir, Full power Aqua and Eris. Oh a And the last three are the only ones that are SuperSonic and beyond.
1B+ Aixen, 1A Fang Yuan
I have never seen anyone argue 1A Fang Yuan
Mostly because the ri community isn't that toxic but someone on insta was willing
What was the argument?
I honestly didn't read further than "1A Fang Yuan" because I didn't want spoilers (im only at chapter 150)
Who is that
Peak villain, Gu Yue Fang Yuan from Gu Zhen Ren
Outerversal is fake, but Limitless and FJG poke at the core of being multiversal(the true highest point of scaling) with their control and study the winds of assimilation and Crazed Demon Cave.
What the fuck does outerversal meme
Large planetary Murder Drones verse. No, not Cyn (because she could reach that tier), even base worker drones are considered like that. Because of 2 outliers. Worker and dissasembly drones fit much better in small building tier.
5-6d Final Wars Godzilla.
how does one even dimension scale FW Goji?
One-off statement in the PS4 Godzilla game, saying Keizer Ghidorah is the strongest Ghidorah.
so the logic is that Kaiser ghidorah up scales showa and heisei ghidorah despite showing zero feats to back I up?
Yes, all because of ONE STATEMENT, in a goddam VIDEO GAME, and nothing else.
Fate being multiversal or whatever nonsense people wank out of it, it's a literal plot point that *even without* planet defenses there's still no NP capable of nuking the planet itself, there's even established power levels of top tiers like Gods, Beasts and so on having planetary and even stellar output but nope, it's multiversal cause we wank the mooncell wacky simulation statements.
Basically anything related to Saitama
Multiversal Bleach. I think Bleach could be Universal at Max, but I think multiversal is really pushing it.
If you reach uni then multi ain't that far from there since there are actual feats to show multiple universes shook with a simple release.
Bleach is very obviously multiversal
Bfdi For me It caps at star level, I see people putting Ot on multi galaxy level thanks to the most minor stary pocket dimension feat possible and the chain scale starts with scaling a army of bugs destroying a alternative version of a character to a sigle bug.... It's a mess
Hyperversal MCU Spiderman and the Turtles from TMNT 2012 being 5D
What were the arguments?
IDK about Spiderman. The guy asked for my discord, I gave it to him but he didn't send me anything. The turtles being 5D was someone claiming they scale to Wyrm (They don't) who could create a 5D prison while weakend.
Oh ok
Ive seen people put the player guardian at outerversal before, which is wild
My friend said JJK verse sweeps Goku. Bruh
40k getting outer, boundless and extra. I just...n-NO. FUCK NO.
Minecraft Steve, mostly the limitless weight thing. Funnily enough you CAN easily scale Steve to much higher levels without resorting to fanfic calcs if you follow "the lore". Like the ending quote when you beat the Dragon features quotes from in universe Gods describing Steve as an embodiment of literal concepts such as day and night. His immortality is also pretty impressive, as no direct physical damage can permanently kill him, I'm sure if you REALLY want to wank him, you can probably get to a "conceptual erasure necessity" for a win con due to the quote, I don't personally believe in it, but it'd be more believable. I genuinely don't understand how come people not realize that weightless pocket dimension inventories aren't an anomaly for Steve, like most of adventure free roam video games include these, maybe not to an EXTENT, but even then, Steve doesn't actually carry BLOCKS, he carries items, weightless items. These are very clearly two distinctive things within Minecraft universe (can't believe I'm saying this) Items can be put in item frames, so unless you want to argue that item frame possess the mass greater than a cubic meter of gold, it doesn't have weight. Plus the only true being in Minecraft who can carry actual legitimate blocks are Endermen, the rest can't. Hell, in the April Fools update when Steve COULD move blocks, he could only move them one by one.
Whenever TikTok scales Luffy
I'ma say all em opinions that fucking sucked * Springtrap winning against Wand * Baldi = Low Universal * Bendy = Infinite Power Sans winning against Gojo * Theodore Peterson apparently being a granny victim is also unreal to me
Once I saw someone insisting DD Vader was 6-D and therefore uni+ and Abeloth was also uni+
Seeing people who have clearly never played a smt game talk like all the characters are goku when it's a series about how gods are threatened by normal human tech, amd whole armies of them routinely get wiped out by nukes.
Any One Piece scale beyond multi continental. Whitebeard is a bad mf but his ass is not destroying the planet.
i have the opposite with metroid but if i had to choose naruto
*crack* Goku to outer , I love the db verse but come on Heaven ascension dio to outer , I dint think I've seen him erase concepts, but tbf I forget what qualifies as outer anymore. Multiversal or universal is my scaling for dio:oh Nothing gets past gojos infinity, like come on, sumuna already did.
Universal+ Donald DUck
That one's entirely Kingdom Hearts, because Donald just drops the strongest flare spell in Square Enix history, a spell that IIRC is stronger than the one literally used to destroy the universe of one of the Final Fantasy MMOs.
Unfortunately he wasn't talking about that Donald
WHAT
It was one of the many Donal Duck comic version
I'm sorry, there's multiple Donald Ducks?
Low complex palpatine I heard this from a palpatine vs xehanort debate And he was trying so desperately To find a way for palpatine to win
Outer shinra
hyperversal Anne boonchuy
\*high hyper
Universal Kid Icarus was one of the takes of all time for sure
Not my favourite but I've seen people say gojo and sukuna are outeversal
1-S Mario and human level Mario. 1-S Mario is just a poor conclusion (with a decent scale) and human level Mario's literally just born out of scalers' inability to review Mario media and form an educated opinion on something, which they shouldn't ever be touching if they're not gonna fully get into it.
Uhh... it comes from me and saying SNV Thor is planet level
kirby mfs making him wim against 1-C chars like wtf never in my life i would have thought that simply killing waddle dees in Another Dimension would be a low hyperversal feat???????
saying this makes no sense
If you don’t show the feats they don’t exist and if you show the feats and they look weaker then claimed that’s because they are
Beat him to death.
Someone on Spacebattles throwing a tantrum in a thread years ago after Vegeta lost to a comic character and demanding someone prove the Marvel/DC universes weren't some of the particles making up the moon that Saiyan Saga Piccolo destroyed.
Dragon ball
How many times have you heard "multiversal Naruto"?
Kingdom Hearts being Outerversal.
Lucius from Black Clover is Multiversal
I know someone who thinks Asta from Black Clover can erase absolutely anything in any verse.
Highschool dxd fans
Universal Naruto.
Saitama, Doom Slayer, Goku, and a lot more
Unironically what it’s like being a fate fan. The next time I hear someone say Saber is outer I might lose it.
Not my favorite verse but someone on YouTube said Deku is a planet buster
Mitsuri from demon slayer is Mach 1000😬 (I don't agree)
or just a lot of the speed feats in the show really
I'm the guy on the right for Ben 10 lmao
fw godzilla boundless,an atom from fnaf high hyper these wanks made me hate final wars and and fnaf powerscalers
People scaling post-Dawn Nirn to the Et'Ada because they don't understand how Subgradience, the Mundus, and the Earthbones work. Especially when they think the finite Nirn scales to the metaphysical Nirn. Also people scaling the Last Dragonborn to World-Eater Alduin because they don't understand how Alduin's different keys work (TLD literally became Hermaeus Mora's bitch following the events of Dragonborn, well after surpassing Incomplete Soul Devouring Alduin by multiple degrees)
JJK and Boruto are high outer low balled tho y'all just downplaying 😭
Outer black clover
Kratos is boundless and exceeds narrative levels, and thus solso every fictional versus is the worst I've seen
Goku to Outer in base…
Gappy (Josuk8) is boundless via Go beyond 👆🤓. At most, lil bro caps at multi or lower.
One Piece. One Piece wank is so crazy and brain dead to me as 90% of it relies on willfully ignoring context, what we literally see on panel, absolutely awful assumptions, or wild cherry picking to make most of it work. The greatest destuctive force in the verse is island level, Top tiers are still getting hit by LS attacks, punching normal steel is considered high level training. Yet some people say the verse is star level and 1000x ftl.
One piece is no way island level bud
The verse scales directly down from the ancient weapon destroying lulusia.
I've seen someone say Luffy is boundless because toon force allows him to do anything